First things first. Kona made a long, excellent and very detailed post which is worth reading in full. Not just because it's excellent, but because the modifiers "long" and "very detailed" seldom accompany the phrase "Kona posts."
Also, Kwark has been posting his ass off making coherent, logical arguments supporting the decision arrived at by the referees. If anyone feels otherwise, his arguments are the ones to beat.
I think we can all agree that what happened was a tremendous letdown for literally everyone involved (with the possible exception of iloveoov). Players, coaches, fans, E-SPORTS: everyone lost out. Fan death is real, and it's horrifying. This was a disaster. It's far worse than unfortunate.
But short of having access to a time machine, there is no way to fix anything. The most that can be done is to minimize the damage. Either of the possible decisions the referees could have made would have been horrendously unfair. Since there was no best decision to be made, they had to make the least worst decision. They decided that the least unjust thing to do would be to award Jaedong the win. I agree with that decision.
It's probably true that the referees could only make their decision based on the limited information available to them (since all replays were lost they only had what was recorded for broadcast) in a short period of time. There's literally no other evidence to work with. Here's the VOD:
There's a lot of things that happened off the screen, but what we know for sure is that for at least four to five minutes prior to the blackout (18:40 on the game clock) Flash had been investing all his mineral and gas income into a giant SK timing attack, pumping infantry from eight barracks and vessels from two starports. If he had any kind of surplus left over after spending that heavily it could only be marginal. He had virtually nothing to work with at the time of the blackout. At 17:49 we see one of the patches at Flash's natural disappear; given how well Flash maynards and how thick he saturated his lines, there's no doubt that the other patches were almost exhausted as well. Flash's main was mined out. He had just begun mining the six fresh patches at the mineral only south of his natural. His first refinery finished at 3:20, his second refinery at 7:40. Gas mines at 100 units every 20 seconds. This leaves Flash at the time of the blackout with 400 gas left in his main geyser and 1700 gas left at his natural geyser. Knowing this we can be certain that Flash's war machine was on its last legs when the shortage hit. At that time the chances of his breaking Jaedong's southwest base had reached zero. Three sunkens, defilers, lings, and ultras, plus rapid reinforcements via nydus. Flash's only option was to cling to his new mineral line, being very proactive with the few vessels on hand and irradiating every single defiler before it could cast swarm. He would have to stop attacking Jaedong, give up map control and make a last stand at the min only, and as the final seconds of the minimap show, that's precisely what he was about to do.
A problem is that Flash's only source of income happens to be exposed from three directions, including the route between it and Flash's barracks. Even in the highly unlikely event that Flash could fend off every attack before a swarm hit, Jaedong also had the option of going straight for Flash's barracks; the production off 6 mineral patches would hardly suffice to defend it. (Flash taking a fourth base would be clearly out of the question since he had sacrificed map control plus his only potential fourth is also highly exposed). Plus being preemptive with irradiate would be highly risky against Jaedong's scourge control (and with four and a quarter gas Jaedong would not lack for scourge), plus Jaedong's economy was still quite robust (salvaging most of the drones from the northeast base was huge [see 14:01]), plus Jaedong wouldn't even need defilers: with a superior economy and map control he could just crash ultraling into Flash's min only and whittle Flash's welfare SK into nothingness.
Kona mentioned Savior/TT as a case in which it isn't over until it's over, but this wasn't a fight between an over-the-hill Zerg and an old Protoss who never made it up the hill to begin with in an elimination contest on weird-ass Neo Requiem. This was a fight between two kings of the hill. Kings make errors, but they don't make outrageous blunders, and Jaedong would have had to make about three of them to let Flash have even a glimpse of victory in that game. Flash had a chance of victory when the lights went out, but it was far, far closer to zero percent than his supporters will admit.
Awarding Jaedong the win nullified that microscopic possibility. Ordering a rematch would strip Jaedong of all the advantages he had accumulated with such difficulty over 18 minutes and 40 seconds and his careful preparations on that map (the 3hatch before pool, the fast secret 3rd expansion in the northeast) would be null and void. A rematch was infinitely more likely to strip Jaedong of an actual victory than awarding Jaedong the victory was to strip Flash of a potential victory. Neither option was fair, but the latter is evidently and overwhelmingly less unfair.
Kinda sum up my opinion on the matter also note that Jaedong had more supply(at least thats what the korean commentators said) and more ressources then flash at time of blackout
So many threads popping up about this. They really should remake Korea's electrical supply so that they can handle the epicness of Flash vs Jaedong (If that's possible)
I agree that JD was way closer to victory and as such this option was more fair, but what counts for me and probably all other Flash fans is what Flash thought about it. Obviously he thought he still had a fighting chance because he isn't one to stay needlessly long in lost games (see the games he lost in the series against Calm and Kwanro and game 1 in this series). Now being forced (damn my English vocabulary is letting me down today) to lose the game when he thought he still had a chance is obviously going to hamper his concentration, let alone all the events that happened afterwards with his pops and his team.
On the other hand you could argue that replaying could have had the same effect on JD and perhaps his coaches/parents would have gone crazy. Basically it was a lose/lose situation for KeSPA and the player who would be decided against was going to get a lot of trouble getting his stuff back on track. It was the power outage that killed Flash (and the finals), not KeSPA's decision.
This post may not be helpful at all but I just needed to vent.
5-star post. Completely agreed. I like both and I find it really anticlimatic that game 3 ended in such a manner, but it can't be helped. Stuff like that happens.
Sums up my thoughts in a good manner. I really think Flash fans and JD anti fans should cool their heads off and consider the implications of the regame, especially with the fact that JD's build was simply irreplaceable and had to go a long way and fought so hard on that imbalanced map in order to create an advantage and win the game. A regame will give Flash a much bigger advantage over JD considering JD's build + situation. The game was practically won, Flash was only mining 6 patches.
Basically it was a lose/lose situation for KeSPA and the player who would be decided against was going to get a lot of trouble getting his stuff back on track.
KeSPA did the best they could, they made a decision quickly.
It was the power outage that killed Flash (and the finals), not KeSPA's decision.
Or maybe it was KTs field trip instead of just getting on with the get on.
Really great, well thought out blog. I appreciate the evidence, and am convinced now (even as a serious Flash fan) that JD deserved game 3. However, the results of game 4 still bother me; it seems like Flash's play was pretty predictable (and sloppy at points) just by virtue of how unhappy he must have been.
Still, JD won fair and square and had better mindgames, especially in game 4. The finals are definitely tainted by MBC's failures, not KeSPA's judgment on game 3.
I hope both players never have to deal with shit like this again.
On January 24 2010 05:18 jambonkingcool wrote: "I think we can all agree that what happened was a tremendous letdown for literally everyone involved (with the possible exception of iloveoov)"
Could someone explain me the oov part?
When they interviewed the bonjwas, Oov joked that he hoped Flash and Jaedong would both do horribly and slump after the MSL finals. "Bisu, Fantasy, and T1 needs to dominate too you know..."
Great post, I hope this quells some of the nerd rage. Nobody wanted this shit to happen and for JD to just be given a win rather than actually seeing the "gg", but given the circumstances (specific build, overcoming map imba, not to mention being ahead by a lot), I think KeSPA did the right thing for once.
Unfortunately, Kespa was simply the bringer of bad news. No doubt, they were in a though situation and made the best of it. It's just so unfortunate. I'm sure everyone realizes that there's no one to really place the blame on except MBC. But there's nothing to do about that at this point.
5/5. And lol at kona... He spams, hahahaha! But I don't think Kespa was 100% right. They had more than just the 2 options at hand: 1.) Call it a Jaedong victory. 2.) Call a rm.
They could've gotten onstage and done some breakdancing! And they could've been a bit less rash with the initial decision until the replays had been fully analyzed and the players and coaches quietly consulted before letting the situation turn into a KT-FlashDad shitstorm.
imo, Jaedong should have stepped up and demanded a re-match to show sportmanship. Why is no one discussing his reactions to all this. I think he gets away very easily by just adjusting (comfortably) to Kespa's decision. While he of course wants to win the finals he doesn't know what Flash's part of the map looks like because Kespa didn't talk with the players about the game. How can he then be silent and just take the "free" win?
Bottomline is, we have seen Flash pull off wins in very hard situations before and while many people argue that Jaedong was in the clear lead in this game, it doesn't mean 100% victory and that's what bothers me.
On January 24 2010 08:21 Foucault wrote: imo, Jaedong should have stepped up and demanded a re-match to show sportmanship. Why is no one discussing his reactions to all this. I think he gets away very easily by just adjusting (comfortably) to Kespa's decision. While he of course wants to win the finals he doesn't know what Flash's part of the map looks like because Kespa didn't talk with the players about the game. How can he then be silent and just take the "free" win?
Bottomline is, we have seen Flash pull off wins in very hard situations before and while many people argue that Jaedong was in the clear lead in this game, it doesn't mean 100% victory and that's what bothers me.
Jaedong has played thousands and thousands of games. He went for a super greedy builds and got away with it with the absolute minimum of defense, he knew he pretty much had it in the bag. The last thing he was gonna do is to demand a rematch for a game that he pretty much had won. I think thats also the reason he doesnt talk much about it in the interview, this guy knows starcraft 100 times better than we ever will and he knew he had that game.
And yeah Flash is capable of doing amazing comebacks against worse players, but this is motherfucking Jaedong we are talking about.
It was less unfair to give JD the win than to do a rematch, so I can just as easily turn this around - why didn't Flash show some sportsmanship and stop all the craziness with his dad and his coach and his whole team protesting, dragging this whole thing on and on by just saying "fuck it, I'll play game 4 now"? It's not worse of a suggestion than to say JD should take the rematch.
edit: just after I posted this I read a post from Nony which a.o. said this:
On January 24 2010 07:02 Liquid`NonY wrote:
It's possible he didn't immediately realize how far behind he was in that game, but ideally he would have given Jaedong the win. Notify the KeSPA admins that he accepts Jaedong gets the win and then move on. Otherwise, simply relax and meditate until KeSPA makes their decision.
You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
Yeah, it's Flash we're talking about. He might have had a fleet of battlecruisers for all we know. Or spontaneously spawn mineral patches in his depleted bases.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys.
Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
How is Flash being devestated an argument when JD would've had even greater cause to be devestated after having a victory stolen from him by the referee?
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys.
Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit.
All I'm saying is that I hear lots of talk about how Flash should've stepped up to his team/dad but no one mentions Jaedongs (presumed) silence in all this.
I think you're neglecting dropship play though. Flash might have been ready to employ 2 dropships right when it happened for all we know
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
We can not exactly say how far ahead JD was, but I'd argue that people like Idra, Nony and Ret have a pretty damn good clue. Now I can still see the argument of people (like idra and almost all flash fans) that a rematch would have been better, even though I disagree But again, your suggestion blaming JD is just bullshit.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
How is Flash being devestated an argument when JD would've had even greater cause to be devestated after having a victory stolen from him by the referee?
Man, you are way too biased. I think an argument is a too light way to put it. I read that his father was walked out of the building and his team left, but came back. That's not an argument, that's a chaotic situation for young Lee Young Ho, who's social network suddenly messes up and he no longer has the strong comfort from his team and dad all of a sudden.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys.
Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit.
All I'm saying is that I hear lots of talk about how Flash should've stepped up to his team/dad but no one mentions Jaedongs (presumed) silence in all this.
I think you're neglecting dropship play though. Flash might have been ready to employ 2 dropships right when it happened for all we know
2 dropships would mean an even smaller amount of science vessels and it would be tough to do any damage, since all the bases were nydus-connected and flash simply wouldnt have a large enough army to do anything And I didnt hear any talk about how Flash should've stepped up until after I had read your post.
I love how you call everyone out for being too biased, while you are clearly 100% objective lol
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
We can not exactly say how far ahead JD was, but I'd argue that people like Idra, Nony and Ret have a pretty damn good clue. Now I can still see the argument of people (like idra and almost all fans) that a rematch would have been better, even though I disagree But again, your suggestion blaming JD is just bullshit.
It would be a different thing if there was a replay to analyze, but there isn't. No one knows exactly what Flash was up to. Like I mentioned earlier, dropships are not too unlikely, and could have turned the game around.
I'm not blaming JD, you're making my arguments too black/white. I'm wondering what his stance is in all this and what he said about the power outage. No one knows though it seems.
And what's to argue that Jaedong would have hypothetically completely denied Flash's (lol unlikely; grasping at straws are you? cool) hypothetical dropship play?
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys.
Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit.
All I'm saying is that I hear lots of talk about how Flash should've stepped up to his team/dad but no one mentions Jaedongs (presumed) silence in all this.
I think you're neglecting dropship play though. Flash might have been ready to employ 2 dropships right when it happened for all we know
2 dropships would mean an even smaller amount of science vessels and it would be tough to do any damage, since all the bases were nydus-connected and flash simply wouldnt have a large enough army to do anything And I didnt hear any talk about how Flash should've stepped up until after I had read your post.
I love how you call everyone out for being too biased, while you are clearly 100% objective lol
Flash most likely had a decent amount of m&m at his nat and if he has dropships there ready to go, things could have been different. Also he could have dropped JD's main and 3 expo simultaneously while attacking his 7 o clock with m&m.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
How is Flash being devestated an argument when JD would've had even greater cause to be devestated after having a victory stolen from him by the referee?
Man, you are way too biased. I think an argument is a too light way to put it. I read that his father was walked out of the building and his team left, but came back. That's not an argument, that's a chaotic situation for young Lee Young Ho, who's social network suddenly messes up and he no longer has the strong comfort from his team and dad all of a sudden.
I'm not saying that Flash wasn't shook by the situation and it's very possible that it's what made him lose the 4th game. But the same thing might as well have happened to JD if the referee ruled against him.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys.
Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit.
All I'm saying is that I hear lots of talk about how Flash should've stepped up to his team/dad but no one mentions Jaedongs (presumed) silence in all this.
I think you're neglecting dropship play though. Flash might have been ready to employ 2 dropships right when it happened for all we know
2 dropships would mean an even smaller amount of science vessels and it would be tough to do any damage, since all the bases were nydus-connected and flash simply wouldnt have a large enough army to do anything And I didnt hear any talk about how Flash should've stepped up until after I had read your post.
I love how you call everyone out for being too biased, while you are clearly 100% objective lol
Flash most likely had a decent amount of m&m at his nat and if he has dropships there ready to go, things could have been different. Also he could have dropped JD's main and 3 expo simultaneously while attacking his 7 o clock with m&m.
Even if he miraculously pulled this off, his units split into three would mean each attack is even weaker, and its highly unlikely JD would let this happen. Especially with 5 gas pumping ultras. Come on, pretty much everyone who has deep sc knowledge agrees that JD was far far ahead.
Of course it was still possible for Flash to win... it was just really really unlikely
P.S. about the comeback part... I was pretty skeptical before the finals that it would produce good games. Why? Because nowadays games between the best of the best tend to be really onesided, cause as soon as one player gets an advantage he just wont let that advantage go.. not someone like Jaedong, Flash or Bisu when they play at their best. Think about Jaedong vs Bisu GOM BO5... not a single great match exactly because of this, despite it getting to a fifth final game. Now maybe I just havent watched enough starcraft games, thats entirely possible, but to me it seems like huge comebacks really only ever happen when the one starting with the disadvantage is clearly overall the better player than the other (Flash vs FBH for example).
Flash had enough gas left in his geysers for 8-9 more vessels, that's assuming he doesn't make any medics or firebats or upgrades.Considering what a good job JD was doing at sniping them, without tanks, this game was over. Without mines, tanks or firebats you simply can't kill ultralisks with a tiny vessel cloud. When 2 S-Class players are playing against each other, every little slip or mistake is capitalised on. There's no way any top calibre zerg player could have lost that game.
On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote: Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
We can not exactly say how far ahead JD was, but I'd argue that people like Idra, Nony and Ret have a pretty damn good clue. Now I can still see the argument of people (like idra and almost all fans) that a rematch would have been better, even though I disagree But again, your suggestion blaming JD is just bullshit.
It would be a different thing if there was a replay to analyze, but there isn't. No one knows exactly what Flash was up to. Like I mentioned earlier, dropships are not too unlikely, and could have turned the game around.
How much do you actually play? There actually is more than enough information to give a solid analysis of the game, you probably just don't realize how much of Starcraft is just economic analysis
Please learn how the game works... "its Motherfucking Flash!" is not an argument.
If a grandmaster has a king, rook and 2 pawns to the other grandmasters king and 2 pawns, the game is over whether they play it out or not.
Either way, this finals just felt so hollow. I can't help but feel like game 4 was marred by game 3, that the players weren't playing their best. Game 3 may have been 99.9999% in JD's favor but I still wanted to see it play out. Overall, just a very disappointing finals. I'm sure both fans, Flash's obviously more so, feel cheated.
I didn't know that giving away hard-earned wins was a sign of sportsmanship. Maybe Jaedong should have conceded the rematch and let Flash go up 2-1 just to show he's a sportsman.