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So when I interviewed InControl last week he talked a little bit about the new website Gosu Coaching where pro level Brood War and Wangs of Liberty players are offering coaching for a reasonable fee. There is some great coaches on there to choose from:
Louder Machine LZ Gamer Assem incontrol Rise PsyonicReaver Diggity iNkA Xeris
Being the Zerg player I am I chose to hook myself up with some coaching from machine. For 30 bucks I managed to get a 2 hour session with the prospect of more. The session itself was great. A few days before we began he asked me for 2 recent replays of every matchup and when we met (got to geek out by going on Team EG's vent) he already had a good idea of what I was doing right and wrong. After a bit of talk about what was good (he said I had decent micro and I knew what to make in response to what) and what was bad (macro especially in the areas of when to expand and when to move up to lair and hive tech. He then taught me some small unit composition things and we got down to the practicing. In these 2 (and a half) hours we played 3 ZvT matches testing early, mid, and late game strats. We did the same with ZvP plus a bonus game between Machine and iNkA I got to obs.
Overall the coaching was very informative and extremely fun. Machine is a very kind and generous guy who was very good with me and made my play a lot more organized.
So in conclusion, is it worth the money? Hell yeah! Would I do it again? I intend to! If you are in need some some coaching this site is great and the prices are awesome. They even can train you on how to do commentaries and coach on both Brood War and Starcraft 2.
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On April 03 2010 11:12 TheElitists wrote:So when I interviewed InControl last week he talked a little bit about the new website Gosu Coaching where pro level Brood War and Wang of Liberty players are offering coaching for a reasonable fee.
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Wang of Liberty....
edit: ah beaten to it
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
incontrol helped me with my TvZ some month or so ago. I went from like D+/C- TvZ to C (was winning vs most C zergs) because I had the mechanics but I was playing too passively and giving my timing away to zerg. Anyway, it's a real good service for those who have some extra disposable income and want some of their passion to rub off on you
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assem demands many monies
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no offense but commentators? coaching for money? gosu coaching sounds like a place where the coaches should be gosu.
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On April 03 2010 11:34 omninmo wrote: no offense but commentators? coaching for money? gosu coaching sounds like a place where the coaches should be gosu.
maybe it was part of april fools? There are some pretty nice names up there though
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nice, i wish the best of luck to the coaching guys, hope it's the start to something big.
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Is there anyone who played T main in SC1 and continues to play T in SC2? I'd be very interested in learning from that person :>
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ok commentators should not be on that list.
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this game is still in beta, what is there to coach? i mean we cann all learn mechanics, but the strategy aspect of the game is not even really developed, and most of the people don't own the game.
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commentators are not coaches they do alot of content on the site vod's tourny's ect .. as for "this game is still in beta, what is there to coach"...... if your good at the beta.. when the game comes out your going to be good.. anyone who thinks diffrently is kidding themselfs.
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is awesome32250 Posts
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 03 2010 14:12 Lz wrote: commentators are not coaches they do alot of content on the site vod's tourny's ect .. as for "this game is still in beta, what is there to coach"...... if your good at the beta.. when the game comes out your going to be good.. anyone who thinks diffrently is kidding themselfs.
if you need people to tell you how to play to learn a beta ...when the game comes out you're not going to be good..anyone who thinks differently is kidding themselves
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 03 2010 12:14 SkylineSC wrote: this game is still in beta, what is there to coach? i mean we cann all learn mechanics, but the strategy aspect of the game is not even really developed, and most of the people don't own the game.
well, it could save you a couple weeks of self learning time by accellerating your learning curve, so if you think about it in a time saved sense they are actually offering a pretty damn good deal for the not so talented RTS gamers in the world (that is of course, depending on how much u care about winning games in a beta lol)
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thanks for the nice word!
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You paid 30 bucks for 2 hours to talk to some guy about how to play a beta better. What the fuck? Cant you get this for free with your buddies? Or by yourself by experimenting?
I can understand people wanting help at bw, which has advanced strategically for many years, but paying money....for beta help...? Doesnt this defeat the purpose of the beta, to try things out yourself and make your own strategies in a fresh new game that will have to be modified after many balancing patches?
Are these players even good at sc2...beta (much less bw)? Have they won or achieved any major titles? (do these major titles even exist yet?)
I dont mean to sound insulting to any of these people, but seriously, half of them are commentators who wouldnt be able to hold b- rank on iccup afaik. How can these people offer services that they cant give, advice that they cant back up?
This whole idea seems ridiculous.......if someone cares so much about improving at a BETA, would they be better off investing their own time simply playing it more, than paying for the knowledge of someone only slightly more experienced at it? Likewise, if I wanted to improve desperately at bw I would not be paying money to ask commentators and clan leaders questions, i would look for people who are actually good at the game. The only person on that list that has ever been "pro level" is assem, a long time ago.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
i love how people act like everyone is equal because "this is the beta"
Sorry, how many of our students do you think are at the top of their platinum divisions like us? None. How many people play this game just to fucking play, they don't care about winning: Probably close to none (online).
People want to win and not everyone has the ability to sit and grind for 4 months to get "decent" at a game. Also some people don't have a circle of friends to bounce games / ideas off of. Brainstorming alone on a ladder is tiresome work. Reading forums where nobody cares about your input is no fun either.
We certainly never proclaim to be the only answer. Hardly. But we certainly are a decent path for some. And I have no idea why each time this subject comes up that concept is so hard for some people to grasp. CONSTANTLY you guys read ecstatic reports from customers who are overjoyed with their experience. NEVER do you read about someone who had a terrible time and even if you did they'd be 1 in 100.
This debate is probably eternal but I cannot help but to hope someone gets some sense on this subject and realizes if it isn't for you... don't do it BUT REALIZE some people benefit tremendously.
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is awesome32250 Posts
yeah it's just that it's annoying to get spammed with your site everywhere. You are Spartan #2.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
i am the original troll sniffer wow. You won't get a big rant out of me. Nice try though.
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On April 03 2010 19:03 IntoTheWow wrote: yeah it's just that it's annoying to get spammed with your site everywhere. You are Spartan #2. haters going to hate.
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What these guys do (staff of gosucoaching) is great, and it can really help a player of any level. Sure people in silver division can mass play ladder for 8 hours a day, but how fast will they improve if they just grind random ladder players or just play with their friend who is probably their skill level or slightly lower/higher.
These coaches can help you get to that next level so much faster and help you repair parts of your game and add new parts. They know what it takes to win as many have a high on iccup of at least A- in brood war, been playing BW for 8+ years, have won numerous tournaments, been on the top teams and now all are currently top 1-3 in their divisions in the SC2 beta. A sliver player can grind and can get better, yes, but it will take a much longer time to reach the next level if they even are capable of reaching it on their own.
I think its a great service they provide and the people that have tried it are not disappointed.
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i'll pay for your coaching if you sponser me with a new PC that can run sc2.
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I definitely plan on taking lessons soon after the game is released. Just too much great feedback from inc's BW coaching and this blog too.
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is awesome32250 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
still no bite but keep trying wow.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
at least make a smurf account or something
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is awesome32250 Posts
It saddens me that you think i was joking, but since you are being so satirical about it: Yes, I think your site spam sucks.
Every gosucoaching guy has their signature filled with your site URL. You tried to make several pages or contests that refered to your page, just like spartan.
Hell, you even spammed your site link in strategy help threads, how sad is that?
In a time where "Esports" is such a big hit, it's sad to see you follow the same steps as the 'scum' of community sites.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
nah.
People ask for help I recommend our website designed for that. We made a couple contests, run a weekly tourney both get linked to website but both are community driven. It'd be nice if we just left the location blank so everyone could viral market their ass to our website but that isn't how it works on the net.
I think until you start seeing us post it in places it doesn't belong like ANYTHING non sc/sc2 related -> coaching (or the other services we do) you shouldn't compare us to spartan. I know that is a tall order since you finally got your reaction so now you will grab a torch each time we post a thread bout our site but I had to try!
"follow the same steps" pretty lol there. We are working to offer a service and make the community more equipped.. quit your bitching.
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On April 04 2010 15:02 IntoTheWow wrote: It saddens me that you think i was joking, but since you are being so satirical about it: Yes, I think your site spam sucks.
Every gosucoaching guy has their signature filled with your site URL. You tried to make several pages or contests that refered to your page, just like spartan.
Hell, you even spammed your site link in strategy help threads, how sad is that?
In a time where "Esports" is such a big hit, it's sad to see you follow the same steps as the 'scum' of community sites.
a) it's not in my profile OO~ b) Spartan just posted links without content c) All our posts have had content d) We just had ONE contest (logo contest) e) I'm hosting tournaments... posting the signup link in the thread on TL. How is this any different from what ESL or ZOTAC or anywhere else does it? f) We offer real services that a lot of people in the community want, why not promote the site while contributing to TL at the same time?
Your post is inflammatory and off-base.
, I'm arguing alongside Geoff for the first time in my life! + Show Spoiler +
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is awesome32250 Posts
Yeah just how spartan makes new games or features for their site and talks about it.
No offense and no need to get defensive, It's just how I see your site links around TL.
Are you going to tell me you linking gosucoaching in a random [H] strategy thread wasn't out of place?
All I'm saying is that TL has been pretty against this in all it's existence. If it was anyone else but you two, you would have been warned for this.
Besides my trolling I'm more or less centered in terms of criticizing. The torch sentence was quite out of line and calling me bitchy was too.
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is awesome32250 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On April 04 2010 15:18 IntoTheWow wrote: Yeah just how spartan makes new games or features for their site and talks about it.
No offense and no need to get defensive, It's just how I see your site links around TL.
Are you going to tell me you linking gosucoaching in a random [H] strategy thread wasn't out of place?
All I'm saying is that TL has been pretty against this in all it's existence. If it was anyone else but you two, you would have been warned for this.
Besides my trolling I'm more or less centered in terms of criticizing. The torch sentence was quite out of line and calling me bitchy was too.
I'm fine with saying you are bitchy and a mob horder.. wouldn't be the first time you've done either things in relation to me.
A guy makes a thread called "getting better" and asks for coaches and advice.. well what thread is MORE appropriate for a guy from his recently made coaching website to come and share the link? You kidding me? You completely leave out that info and act like I just dropped my link in some random strat forum thread.. no buddy, it had huge relevance.
Additionally you see our link in signatures and in threads about our 1 tourney or 1 contest.. WOW.. I am sorry to subject your eyes to such villainy. Perhaps I should put a stimey quote in there or a fan base I made for myself..
I absolutely know I am feeding the troll here but some people really share your sentiment and I hope to curb that with rationalizing our place in this community. I've done it alone for 6 months I now have a site and a staff.. it is going to be a LOT harder to convince me that coaching in the SC/SC2 community doesn't belong.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
and yes in that case I should have added content to my post with the link.
It was a bad post. I've linked the website twice I think in the strat forum.
I promise not to do THAT kind of thing again itw. If that was your main concern (i'm sure it isn't) rest assured.
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is awesome32250 Posts
I guess there's no rationalizing with you Inc. Spam way.
Thanks for insulting me thought, I will sure to exchange no words with you again.
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is awesome32250 Posts
Also I would like to know what other times I acted bitchy as a mob horder against you that were not as a friendly joke?
The last time I remember making a joke against you, you PMed me about it and I told you I was not serious about it and that it was only a friendly jab.
Put the facts where you mouth is Geoff.
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god fucking damnit i love tl.net
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you've had 3 separate blogs and various customer testimony blogs dedicated to promoting your website already. not only that but early on you would frequently bump your blogs whenever you needed a customer. i didn't care enough to post in this thread myself but because you are a respected member of the community people frequently bandwagon in your favor against any opposition.
personally, i think ITW is right. 1 blog was cool, 2 blogs alright, 3 blogs really? and now we are getting random customer testimonies where they straight up just endorse your site. don't tell me if someone else were doing this, this level of saturation wouldn't seem distasteful.
i understand a lot of talent is on the team and you provide a service for a reasonable fee. but as of now i think it's reached the point where it seems like you are just taking advantage of TL traffic to promote your service.
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last I checked this blog wasn't posted by anyone of our staff.
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you're right! i guess it's pretty common for people to give mutually beneficial ringing endorsements.
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Braavos36362 Posts
Everyone needs to relax. Let us mods do our job. If we feel they are abusing the forums for advertising, we'll warn them. There's no need to call them out and start an argument. Thanks.
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I have taken lessons too before in War3 (I'm a noob still -_-) but it taught me a lot about how the pros think. Sure the strategies aren't set but once you learn to "read" the signs you can pretty much transfer a lot to any game and what I learnt in war3 has helped a lot (practice wise) here in SC2. So I think this is a great thing for someone who doesn't naturally "get it" in sc2.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
i made 3 blogs about something i had been doing over the course of 6 months.>
I bumped it rather than make a new blog.. something you are supposed to do.
Other people made blogs like insane (mod) and various happy students.
Recently we made a thread about our tourney and logo contest.
Lets not get too excited here ok?
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On April 03 2010 18:10 {88}iNcontroL wrote: People want to win and not everyone has the ability to sit and grind for 4 months to get "decent" at a game. Also some people don't have a circle of friends to bounce games / ideas off of. Brainstorming alone on a ladder is tiresome work.Reading forums where nobody cares about your input is no fun either. Covert shot at TL :O. I think someone else said it before in a tourney incontrol held. Inc is a marketing genius + if you've got a skill... don't use it for free.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
That can be misinterpreted so let me clarify: If some random 35 post noob wants to discuss a strategy or get help they won't get half the attention / discussion they would if they were paying someone to teach them. It is a cold hard fact. TL is the best when it comes to strat forum but it is still far and away from providing the kind of attention/advice a paid coach can (understandably).
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
even intothewow getting all serious about something that doesn't even matter
what has this world come to
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Would this be a bad place to post that I just uploaded a basic Terran build tutorial?
+ Show Spoiler +The OP of this thread and myself are pretty good friends. Also, I consider inc a friend because he lives super close to me. Its an Oregon thing <3
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So long story short, people who are "good" at beta are getting money from people who suck at beta. And nerds are getting mad?
Look guys. If people are so bad at video games they need to pay money to improve, let them, let alone paying help for a beta. It's not like it's your money, so who cares.
As for the "constant spam". I'm sure if it gets out of hand the mods will handle it.
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I kinda gotta chuckle at Rise's commentating lessons. You pay me $$ and I'll teach you how to talk a lot of bullshit during a video game! Or you pay me $$ and I'll bullshit a lot during a video game! Ahh well, getting paid to commentate is a sweet gig can't blame him for trying, I just think commentary lessons is very silly.
That said, I think Gosucoaching is a great thing for any schmuck willing to pay money to play a video game. And props to them for trying to get paid for doing something they love.
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Rise is giving commentating lessons? The OP is really confusing, it lists everyone who's doing work for gosucoaching not that they all will be coaching... but it really makes it sound like they all will be coaching. :O
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I think GosuCoaching is a good idea since like was stated earlier not everyone has people to bounce of ideas from. But then some part of me feels like it's such a cheap way of "helping" the community by taking money from it.
I'm kind of on the fence, mostly because the money is a little to steep for this kind of thing (for me atleast).
But yeah, keep on helping the players.
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Just to settle any problems with my perspective. I am not working for gosucoaching in any way I'm a paying customer and honestly did not even know about other links posted on TL. Not like it would have stopped me since this is my blog and I just wanted to post what my experience was.
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I'm a guitar teacher and think the claims against GosuCoaching are absolutely ridiculous.
What I do for a profession is no different than what they are doing, except I charge more. Value is whatever the customer makes of it. I've plugged myself on guitar forums where appropriate, and mention it in conversation when it's applicable. Especially for a young indie business, self promotion is about the only tool you have. You might find it annoying if you yourself don't want the product, but many people do, and it is (or might one day be ) Team.EG's job to do this.
I always liked the entrepreneurial spirit of this and think you boys are doing a good job by offering a service that people are clearly benefiting from.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I appreciate you saying that man
Thanks for the support guys!
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On April 05 2010 02:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote:I appreciate you saying that man Thanks for the support guys!
Yeah for real, good job!
Anyone complaining needs to go yell at a college professor and see what they think. What the fuck can those guys be thinking charging to to teach someone?
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On April 05 2010 05:06 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 02:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote:I appreciate you saying that man Thanks for the support guys! Yeah for real good job! Anyone complaining needs to go yell at a college professor and see what they think. What the fuck can those guys be thinking charging to to teach someone? Except its more like a professor from a different college advertising where he doesn't teach. If he wants to recruit more students pay for advertising.
"Ads by Project Wonderful! Your ad here, right now: (price)"
Common sense IMO. :p
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On April 05 2010 05:44 BuGzlToOnl wrote: Except its more like a professor from a different college advertising where he doesn't teach. If he wants to recruit more students pay for advertising.
"Ads by Project Wonderful! Your ad here, right now: (price)"
Common sense IMO. :p
Except that the professor is going to a municipal park and advertising. TL does not offer coaching services.
Seriously when I first joined TL people would have went ape shit for something like this.
Now all the people on here do is bitch. Stop backseat modding. If the mods think this is an offense they will remove it (like they said before). But they haven't. So obviously they don't have a problem with it.
Seriously these guys are great gamers and LzGaMeR is the ITL Champion right now coming off big wins over Pride, IdrA, and CauthonLuck in the ITL. You don't think there is anything to learn from them?
Sorry for the rage, but when someone is trying to do something that is fun and innovative it bothers me to see all these people come out of the woodworks to bash them.
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If he's allowed to advertise for free everyone from the municipality/community should be allowed to do the same.
Inevitably this will lead to the forums being spammed by small insignificant things. That's why there is paid for and appropriate advertisements so the "park" won't be littered with things not everyone wants.
If your interested in a something that's being advertised click on link for more info. Easy as that.
Ps: I'll leave it at that. It's not my site, the mods will decide on what they think is best.
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On April 05 2010 06:25 BuGzlToOnl wrote: If he's allowed to advertise freely everyone from the municipality/community should be allowed to do the same.
Inevitably this will lead to the forums being spammed by small insignificant things. That's why there is paid and appropriate advertisements so the "park" won't be littered with things not everyone wants. If your interested in something click the advertised link for more info. Easy as that.
Have you ever read this thread?
Every single one of the gosucoaching members has not only given back to the community, but gone above and beyond what is normally excepted. I dare someone to add up thier total post counts for TL alone?
Well I had 10 minutes before bed so I save you the work: 38,301.
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i can't seem to find a pricing page on their website? is it always $30 for 2 hours or does it vary based on the coach or day of the week etc?
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Whether it's worth it to you is something only an individual can decide for themselves. However, if you have a few bucks to spare, and want to accelerate your sc2 improvement, then $15 an hour is a great deal for coaching from some really good players.
Also, gosucoaching is hosting the Silverstars tourney for lower ranked player (winner gets free coaching) and the weekly $100 tourney for the NA server which is awesome. So I think they're fine.
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Its an okay idea... but I'd consider it to be expensive.
1. Its only beta, things will change. 2. Starcraft is a chance to learn how to teach oneself. Being able to improve individually is a very valuable skill.
It's nice to see these guys giving back to the community though.
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I just want to ask if you have to pay anything in order if you just want to create an account in order to participate in your tournements
thanks
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
No you don't. And that could have been answered by going to the site itself and finding out for yourself.
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