After watching Sea inside (watch HERE and summary HERE)I started reflecting upon the issue. At first it seemed like a stupidity. Who the hell wants to die? But then I realized that it could be my parent wanting to die and that euthanasia is some difficult issue. Right now I'm not sure what I could possibly do in a situation like that. On one hand wanting to die seems so irrational and so foolish, but on the other hand considering that a paralyzed person practically hasn't any kind of life you really can start understanding why they want to die. As of now it is one of the few topics I have don't have any opinion on.
Euthanasia
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Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
After watching Sea inside (watch HERE and summary HERE)I started reflecting upon the issue. At first it seemed like a stupidity. Who the hell wants to die? But then I realized that it could be my parent wanting to die and that euthanasia is some difficult issue. Right now I'm not sure what I could possibly do in a situation like that. On one hand wanting to die seems so irrational and so foolish, but on the other hand considering that a paralyzed person practically hasn't any kind of life you really can start understanding why they want to die. As of now it is one of the few topics I have don't have any opinion on. | ||
TimmyMac
Canada499 Posts
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Kralic
Canada2628 Posts
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
I think it's pretty much for this reason that it's illegal. | ||
sLiniss
United States849 Posts
On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote: Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo. That doesn't solve anything. Thats like saying "If you don't like euthanasia, then don't get one." Thats like saying "If you don't want a slave, then just don't own one." | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4776 Posts
On May 12 2010 06:39 TimmyMac wrote: Leaving it to personal choice is the only way to 'solve' these issues imo. How can you avoid teenagers exploiting it? The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards - which they wouldn't get the chance to if euthenasie was implemented. Then there is the problem, what if the person can't give his/her consent, but their spouse/kids/familiy tells you that they never wanted to become a vegetable, what do you do then? It's a very complex problem which I don't really think can be solved by making some general rules. Besides, euthenasia already exists, even in countries where it is forbidden as one could argue that palliativ treatment is in some cases the same as euthenasia as it involves a large dose of morfine which is given even with the knowledge that it'll kill the patient. | ||
Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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KwarK
United States40785 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote: How can you avoid teenagers exploiting it? The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards - which they wouldn't get the chance to if euthenasie was implemented. Then there is the problem, what if the person can't give his/her consent, but their spouse/kids/familiy tells you that they never wanted to become a vegetable, what do you do then? It's a very complex problem which I don't really think can be solved by making some general rules. Besides, euthenasia already exists, even in countries where it is forbidden as one could argue that palliativ treatment is in some cases the same as euthenasia as it involves a large dose of morfine which is given even with the knowledge that it'll kill the patient. The difference between euthenasia and suicide is that euthenasia is generally for people who require assistance offing themselves. If people want to die I don't think they really care what the law has to say about it, they're somewhat beyond that kind of issue if they succeed. | ||
Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4776 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:42 KwarK wrote: The difference between euthenasia and suicide is that euthenasia is generally for people who require assistance offing themselves. If people want to die I don't think they really care what the law has to say about it, they're somewhat beyond that kind of issue if they succeed. A) Suiciders are generally terrible at offing themselves. B) The difference between legal euthanasia and the current state is that a suicider can't demand a doctors help. How would you construct the law so that was still the case after the legalisation of euthenasia? | ||
allluckysevens7777
United States53 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:01 sLiniss wrote: That doesn't solve anything. Thats like saying "If you don't like euthanasia, then don't get one." Thats like saying "If you don't want a slave, then just don't own one." I think there is a better analogy than this. There is a pretty clear potential for harm to an individual in the case of slavery, whereas the issue with euthanasia is essentially "people might be sad." It seems to be essentially an issue of suicide. Which, at least in the US, is not a crime. If a person would kill themselves if able, I don't see where the problem is with someone helping them. Oregon and Washington states agree with this idea in certain circumstances, and have safeguards against impulsive decisions and mental instability. I'm mostly thinking of the case of people with severe medical issues, but don't really see why it should be restricted to such cases, provided appropriate safeguards. Again, suicide is not a crime (US, ymmv) and is much easier than convincing someone to help you. And in the case of inability to give consent- that's why it's important to have you affairs in order. Have your wishes documented so it's not an issue for the decision makers. That said, I think there should be no incentive for the assisting individual (profit, personal involvement, etc). Too easy for coercion to enter into the equation and blur the line with murder. Which is perhaps why it's mostly illegal to begin with; it's a lot easier and less nebulous to say "don't do it" than to say "helper can have nothing to gain." | ||
ghermination
United States2851 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote: The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards How would you know? I'm sure interviews with people who failed at suicide often have them saying they regret it... and i'm sure they do, after seeing the effects it has on their family first hand, and being told by the doctors, the psychiatrists, and the police how terrible what they were attempting was. However you have no idea what goes through the mind of those killing themselves in that last second. What you don't realize is that fear of death is such an deeply ingrained part of our instances - fear of being unable to sew our genes - that we come to greatly fear it in other people as well. Humans are especially afraid of the unknown, and so we make a huge deal about death, while other terrible things are done to things "less than" in the eyes of those anti-slavery crusaders, or the war protesters, that it really amazes me. People who come to convince themselves that they want to die should be allowed to. Better to remove themselves from the world than put any more strain on an environment that can't support them, and especially if they don't want to be here. | ||
Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
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Rambling.
Canada314 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4776 Posts
On May 12 2010 09:10 ghermination wrote: How would you know? I'm sure interviews with people who failed at suicide often have them saying they regret it... and i'm sure they do, after seeing the effects it has on their family first hand, and being told by the doctors, the psychiatrists, and the police how terrible what they were attempting was. However you have no idea what goes through the mind of those killing themselves in that last second. What you don't realize is that fear of death is such an deeply ingrained part of our instances - fear of being unable to sew our genes - that we come to greatly fear it in other people as well. Humans are especially afraid of the unknown, and so we make a huge deal about death, while other terrible things are done to things "less than" in the eyes of those anti-slavery crusaders, or the war protesters, that it really amazes me. People who come to convince themselves that they want to die should be allowed to. Better to remove themselves from the world than put any more strain on an environment that can't support them, and especially if they don't want to be here. The majority of suiciders fail at the suicide and I treat them afterwards... That would be how I come to know. Do the succesful suiciders regret? Obviously not, or well - we can't really know, can we? But I've yet to meet a person who didn't regret his/her suicide attempt, and more often than not it's a cry for help (cliche you might say, but the truth nonetheless). | ||
allluckysevens7777
United States53 Posts
On May 12 2010 09:06 Ghostcom wrote: A) Suiciders are generally terrible at offing themselves. So is suicide not criminalized because "probably nothing will happen"? That seems like shaky justification, if that's the only reason. On May 12 2010 09:06 Ghostcom wrote: B) The difference between legal euthanasia and the current state is that a suicider can't demand a doctors help. How would you construct the law so that was still the case after the legalisation of euthenasia? How would this be any different from the abortion issue? I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can demand an abortion from J. Random Doctor. I imagine that some doctors would be willing to assist, and others would not. | ||
selboN
United States2523 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:37 Ghostcom wrote: The majority of suiciders actually regret it afterwards LOLOL they tell you that? | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4776 Posts
On May 12 2010 09:23 allluckysevens7777 wrote: So is suicide not criminalized because "probably nothing will happen"? That seems like shaky justification, if that's the only reason. How would this be any different from the abortion issue? I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you can demand an abortion from J. Random Doctor. I imagine that some doctors would be willing to assist, and others would not. A) That was not what I was saying... B) It depends on the healthcare system I guess. And I've yet to hear of a hospital which didn't offer abortions in a country where it was legal. Point being, the state will have to make such a "treatment" possible, meaning some doctors will be hired in a position where they have to help sick people who wants to die; this is all fine and I don't think it would be a problem as such to get these doctors. The problem arises when a 18 year old, otherwise healthy, but depressed teenager enters the stage - what is the doctor to do then? The law was obviously not intended to cover these cases, but if he doesn't comply to the teenagers wish, he risks getting fired or sued for not fulfilling his duty. If you want to parallel it to the abortion law, it is like a couple wanting to get an abortion because a pregnancy test has showed the fetus to be a boy and this couple only wants a girl.... Clearly the law of free abortion before a certain week (depending on country) was never intended to be misused this way. | ||
Ghostcom
Denmark4776 Posts
Yes I can talk with the dead - not all suiciders die, actually it's a minority that does you gravybrain | ||
condoriano
United States826 Posts
On May 12 2010 08:01 sLiniss wrote: That doesn't solve anything. Thats like saying "If you don't like euthanasia, then don't get one." Thats like saying "If you don't want a slave, then just don't own one." Having a right to choose versus having a right to violate rights of somebody else? Horrible example. | ||
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