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Hey all lately i've been toying with the idea of dropping SC2 for a little and going back to broodwar, for some reason it just feels like a good idea. I'll be honest, i really haven't been furiously trying to improve my game for too long, and i went from knowing practically nothing in bronze league to near 1000pts in diamond, and it wasn't as hard as i thought it would be. Don't get me wrong, i still have A LONG WAY to go in SC2, and i cant wait to continue improving my game with it.
but could it possibly be worth it to jump back on ICCUP and start becoming proficient in BW? i played it for a while before SC2 came out and i was probably an F- rank, if such a rank existed. I feel like it might be a good idea to develop solid game mechanics with brood war and then jump back into SC2 in good time. My reasoning here is that i feel like my relatively lower APM (avg 80-90) in SC2 is just now starting to catch up with me, i'm starting to realize how many more things i couldve been doing at once. BW is no doubt much more APM intensive, and i think it would help in that regard, among other things. I think trying to achieve a D+ or possibly C- rank in BW would translate to a vast increase in my SC2 skill.
Thoughts? Is it worth it to go back and learn something that may not be around for TOO much longer or should i just be trying to practice with the new game at hand? I look at BW as more of a learning tool than anything else, although i'll admit i have a lot of fun playing it as well :D
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game.
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On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game.
I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not.
Though i can say being on a swim team made me better at soccer (leg muscles).
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you don't think BW skill translates very easily to sc2 skill? Seems like i could learn a lot from it, but i could be wrong.
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On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game.
Agreed, although I typically swim to get better APM.
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yeah but know that it could take you a year to reach C- in icup,
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if you're going from BW to sc2 then the skill translates obviously, but there's nothing to be gained by going backwards. mechanics iz mechanics which is all that came over from BW besides macro expansion timings scouting and natural feel for build orders and late game composure
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The macro mechanics of BW are almost completely different, the units move differently and ARE different. I don't see how this would help in the slightest.
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IMO, I say no. Not worth it. If your goal is to get better at SC2, stick with it. The gameplay from BW will mess up your game (units from BW just arn't the same as SC2).
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On September 21 2010 12:48 AnxietE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game. I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not.
You're either being really smart, or really dumb.
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On September 21 2010 12:50 Pablols wrote: yeah but know that it could take you a year to reach C- in icup,
Very true. I actually took a break from sc2 and went back to BW for the period between patch 13 (roach 2 supply nerf) and the 2nd wave of the beta. My apm went from 50 to 150 (average, sc2 does "normal" apm which translates to 150 when it displays 100), and my mechanics skyrocketed. Speaking from a zerg perspective for both games, it really really helps. I recommend you play until you get an urge to play sc2 again (It'll happen, trust me) with MBS and auto-mine. You won't regret it. Also, D+ was my goal and I only managed to maintain a D rank (which I'm pretty proud of actually).
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On September 21 2010 12:51 eNbee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 12:48 AnxietE wrote:On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game. I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not. You're either being really smart, or really dumb.
You're either overestimating my intelligence or underestimating my stupidity.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
your time is better spent training SC2 to get better at SC2
If you want to do something else then sure, play BW, it could help. If you want to get better at SC2 and you don't care how you do it.. play MORE sc2.
Supplement it with vods, streams, replays and strategy forums/liquipedia. But don't go play bw and expect it to help your sc2 imo.
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yeah that is a brilliant Idea, and it will really improve your mechanics. when you come back to sc2, you will be significantly better
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if you like BW play it, there should be a practice partner thread on TL. Iccup is pretty tough for noobs these days so I understand if you are wary.
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They are 2 different games. What you can do and execute in one game you may not be able to in the other..
I would be very careful if you switch back.
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I've thought about it a few times but decided overall not to do it. Everything is just too different.
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On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game. Yeah summed up pretty well. Sc2 and Sc are very different mechanics wise. Playing sc wont make you better faster than just playing sc2. All the effort you spend in BW will be better spent playing sc2
On September 21 2010 12:55 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 12:51 eNbee wrote:On September 21 2010 12:48 AnxietE wrote:On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game. I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not. You're either being really smart, or really dumb. You're either overestimating my intelligence or underestimating my stupidity. Ahhah!
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You will technically get better I guess, but it will be very frustrating. BW is so so so choppy compared with SC2. Mechanics wise, you'll get better, but u won't gain anything strategy wise. If I were u, I would stick with SC2, but going back isn't a bad idea.
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There is nothing BW could teach you that more sc2 couldn't, and anything that you would learn would be unnaplicable to sc2. Like incontrol said, it would bE like playing tennis to get better at baseball. While the same concepts apply (hit the ball really hard) the execution is completely different.
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On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game.
Damn incontrol your so epic mate.
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BW will help your mechanics and multitasking, but if you want to improve at SC2, playing SC2 will do a better job.
That being said, there's no reason not to. BW is still a lot of fun, and I still play it regularly, despite being a self-proclaimed "SC2 player."
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i know ajtls actively plays sc1 since the release of sc2 to train. he considers sc1 more mechanically demanding in every aspect than sc2, so he just watches vods and replays before he plays sc2, and trys to replicate whatever he sees xd
obviously it must be working, since he only came to sc2 at retail and won or did well in alot of tournaments not even a month in o.o
so basically what im saying is that sc1 will help you more mechnically/reflex wise than sc2 can imo xd
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Yeah i gotta agree with iNcontroL here... best way to get good at SC2 is to play SC2 plain and simple. Nothing more to discuss here.
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On September 21 2010 13:15 KamuL wrote: i know ajtls actively plays sc1 since the release of sc2 to train. he considers sc1 more mechanically demanding in every aspect than sc2, so he just watches vods and replays before he plays sc2, and trys to replicate whatever he sees xd
obviously it must be working, since he only came to sc2 at retail and won or did well in alot of tournaments not even a month in o.o
so basically what im saying is that sc1 will help you more mechnically/reflex wise than sc2 can imo xd
Saying that name can get you banned around here :X.
OT but does he still play? I haven't seen him laddering in a few weeks now.
That might be due to the fact of him not owning his own computer from what I've heard.
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On September 21 2010 12:48 AnxietE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game. I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not. Though i can say being on a swim team made me better at soccer (leg muscles). its not swim team that directly made you better at soccer. its you training your legs that made you better at soccer.
analogy:
its not playing broodwar that makes you play sc2 better, its improving your micro and macro that makes you better.
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some good ideas here guys, thanks. for some reason BW just has this.....appeal, even though SC2 is out. I'm a decent player at sc2, but still have a long way to go mechanics and speed wise which is where my thinking here roots from.
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On September 21 2010 13:20 Hakker wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 13:15 KamuL wrote: i know ajtls actively plays sc1 since the release of sc2 to train. he considers sc1 more mechanically demanding in every aspect than sc2, so he just watches vods and replays before he plays sc2, and trys to replicate whatever he sees xd
obviously it must be working, since he only came to sc2 at retail and won or did well in alot of tournaments not even a month in o.o
so basically what im saying is that sc1 will help you more mechnically/reflex wise than sc2 can imo xd Saying that name can get you banned around here :X. OT but does he still play? I haven't seen him laddering in a few weeks now. That might be due to the fact of him not owning his own computer from what I've heard.
no he hasn't played since IEM.
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On September 21 2010 13:23 Vz0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 12:48 AnxietE wrote:On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game. I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not. Though i can say being on a swim team made me better at soccer (leg muscles). its not swim team that directly made you better at soccer. its you training your legs that made you better at soccer. analogy: its not playing broodwar that makes you play sc2 better, its improving your micro and macro that makes you better.
But.... playing soccer would also make you better at soccer. More efficiently. Nobody is saying playing BW makes you worse at SC2. The point is playing SC2 is a better way to get better at playing SC2. Are we seriously discussing this?
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On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game.
I wonder how you ever got the quality poster mark next to your name with crap like this. inb4 "omgz do you know who he is!? he wrote that guide you have to pay for that will make you teh awesome at sc2 zomgz when there is already almost 200 episodes of the Day 9 daily available for free that are much more informative imo!"
Anyways, there would be no sense in going back. It won't make your SC2 game stronger at all. If you want to be good at a game, play that game. I play Super Smash Bros Brawl when I go on a losing streak or something, but in general I just play SC2. I used to play Super Smash Brawl for tournaments, and the SSBMelee crowd acted like they could just pick up the game and dominate without any practice (because their game was harder *rollseyes*). That was true for a little while, but eventually the people that practiced put them on the backseat for good.
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if u wanna get depressed.. seriously, keep playing sc2, u will improve and u will be happy playing.
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your post said exactly what incontrols did. Anyways as people have said playing bw to try to help your mechanics is silly your better off playing sc2. I dunno why u think your going to get on bw and just jump 100 in apm and all of a sudden be better. If your trying to improve your mechanics playing bw seems like a waste of time .
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play sc2. the mechanics don't directly translate over. you're gonna be spending a bunch of apm macroing in sc1, and find that all the time u spent mastering that doesn't do anything for u in sc2. likewise, you'll find new mechanics in sc2 that you've never done in sc1, so playing sc1 does nothing for u in that respect
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You've got the wrong perception about the whole thing.
Right now you're thinking "Oh, the best SC2 players at the moment are the best SC2 players, to become really pro at SC2, I should really get BW down pat to be like them."
That isn't how it works.
Think of it like a sport. You've got the top soccer players who are really fit and athletic, then they all decide to take up football. Obviously they are going to have a huge advantage over players just getting out off their couch and playing football for the first time (they are already athletic, healthy etc), but it's really a different game. It doesn't mean you have to go and become a top soccer player to be good at football, those guys just have a good head start.
If you put in the same amount of effort it would take to become a great soccer player (BW player) into just becoming a good football player (SC2 player) then you would work out ahead.
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United States12607 Posts
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On September 21 2010 12:47 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yeah I always play tennis to work on my baseball game.
on the other hand, power lifting probably improves your baseball game. just something to think about lol.
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If you wear 10 LBs on your shoulders all day long and then take the weight off you will feel a lot lighter. This is basically what the OP is suggesting about the APM in BW vs SC2. i don't see how everyone is against the original poster... he has a valid point.
I play BW and SC2 frequently, and yes, for some people, the gameplay can be very similar if you just get over some of the mechanics to help your APM.
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nah man
just stick to this. lets keep it simple
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Australia7069 Posts
Just play what you find fun. I've been switching between the two when i get bored of one back to the other. The point of games is to have fun!
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As mentioned earlier, it most likely won't help you improve your gameplay a lot, considering the fact that D-/D players appear to place at the upper echelons of SC2 ladders, and they clearly don't have mechanics on their side.. the only titbit of knowledge that you will actually glean from playing SC is that it is a better game than its infant bastardisation.
If you do choose to play the ladder, you will most likely not be able to go beyond barely D rank in the ladder, with reference to the state of Iccup right now; wanton power abuse from the apes that iccup currently staffs, and almost only koreans on the actual ladder.
With all that said, you should go play BW, because it has all but run out of cannon fodder.
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