Its officially official - Boxer confirmed his switch to SC2. Well, fuck that shit, and let me explain why I dont share the overall excitement of the fact and why I'm rather disappointed about Boxers choice.
Now there are plenty of old bw crooks moving on to SC2, searching for a new "challenge". July and Nada, both legendary bw players are with sc2 pro status already. But there is a crucial difference between these two and Boxer. The Emperor IS the scbw scene, and he is responsible for the success that BW had for the past decade. Nada and July as well played a big part in the history of scene, but in the last year or so, there were clear indicators that both were going to switch to sc2 with no regrets. July never really belonged to a team, so leaving STX was completely logical, as for NaDa, all his motivation to win one more SL died out when his coach and mentor stepped away from the scene about a year ago.
Boxer leaving SKT might be devastating for the team, but the biggest problem I see with him leaving the BW scene is the impact that this is going to have on the sc1 fans in Korea. The symbol is gone, the captain abandons his own ship.
While I can only guess if this wasnt some sort of publicity stunt by Blizzard, luring Boxer to SC2 in order to get more public interest for their new game, it is indeed certain, that there will be a huge migration from the bw fanbase. I know this is pure speculation, saying the Blizzard offered money to Boxer to switch games, but The Emperor playing SC2 is really really huge. And it just might give the extra boost Blizzard needed to win even more ground in Korea.
But what might turn out to be smth great for the young and infant SC2, is in fact devastating for the old BW scene. With nothing being certain about the future of the upcoming individual leagues and PL, Boxer leaving was the last thing the fans needed. Ofc BW was going to die out eventually, no doubt about that, but in my opinion what The Emperor did, will speed up the process.
I wish him all the best with the new game and I hope he wins a lot of stuff, but on the other hand I'm really really disappointed.
A boxer fan wouldnt feel like that, your just angry because BW is going downhill. Blame Kespa not boxer, you should be glad to see more of him by playing sc2 !
I know a lot of people are going to point this out, but Boxer was no longer playing in Proleague. Yeah, he was the heart and soul of SKT, but he wasn't an active player. And I'm pretty sure everybody always wanted to watch Boxer play. I'm not ready to see Boxer be a coach quite yet, and that was looking like how it was turning out, to me.
What better player to lead the way into a new era than the first true dominant force in BW?
I guess I have less attachment to BW, but I think if SC2 started up team leagues, then it'd be just as exciting. Though, I'm not really expecting that to happen any time soon. I guess we'll see there.
I always loved the old players more. Flash and Jaedong were great and all, but I never cheered as hard for them as for Boxer or Yellow, the original TvZ. Yellow beating Jaedong was one of my favorite games ever, just because it was so tense the entire game, with Yellow finally taking the advantage.
On October 10 2010 01:55 PaD wrote: A boxer fan wouldnt feel like that, your just angry because BW is going downhill. Blame Kespa not boxer, you should be glad to see more of him by playing sc2 !
It's perfectly acceptable to dislike the fact that Boxer is transitioning away from the game you love. I'd reckon disciple's a bigger Boxer fan than you are.
That tinfoil hat sure doesn't suit you :p blizzard offering money to boxer to switch game is one of the most stupid things i've ever heard. I guess your main reason for posting this is just to express concern with the scbw scene and not to introduce a weird conspiracy theory but why do you even consider that a possibility?
You cant judge a person moving on after the amount of years he invested into something, he poured his heart and his soul into BW and played and watched over it till he was 30. Now he sees a new opportunity that seems interesting and all of a sudden you are disappointed? Really? Who are you to judge what a person wants to do with his life. Its not like he owned BW now and left it to rote. There are still many BW players right now, and they are doing a good job of holding on to what they love. I just dont see why you criticize boxer for such a move. He has to move on sometime, and now is the time he chose. Deal with it.
On October 10 2010 01:53 luckySe7en wrote: SC2 is awesome.
Not really the case for a good number of people (though definitely the minority, I guess.)
It's definitely saddening to see Boxer make the switch, and I agree with you that it may speed up the death of Brood War. It's bad enough that we lost Nada and July already, but as you said, if there is one person that you think of when you hear about Brood War, it's Boxer. He's responsible for so much within the Brood War scene that it's really disappointing to see him go.
From a career standpoint, it's probably the best thing for him; while purely speculation, the competition in Brood War is too crazy at the moment, and old school pro gamers who may have never really done much in the Brood War scene are having fairly good results with SC2; I can only imagine what Brood War's greatest can do with SC2 (though I don't imagine it will ever be as visually exciting to watch.)
Still, it's a very very sad day, even if it's the best move for him personally.
Come on... I think he tried his best to do something for SKT in BW, but, as we all know, he couldn't. And in his interview he also emphasized many times the line "progamer into the 30s" which imo is his ultimate goal, and since it's not possible in BW, it has to be in SC2.
I don't get it: you're disappointed that we're going to see Boxer on TV again? That he'll once again have a shot to be a top player? That he can now innovate in his own games, rather than through younger proteges?
SC2 is a great career move for Boxer. Any true fan would recognize that he's much better off at the top of the SC2 scene than sitting the T1 bench. I can't believe you're disappointed in The Emperor for simply doing what's best for himself.
I don't know. If BoxeR had plain retired from gaming, BW wouldn't be out very many fans. He hadn't performed well or even had much PL exposure for a long time. BoxeR is different from someone like H.O.T-486 who has no problem hanging up his mouse to be a coach because the team is more important. BoxeR is only a player, and fading away doesn't suit someone like him.
BW still has people attached to it with charismatic personalities. This includes people like YellOw/Reach/Midas who are still around (we are running out of those guys though) and contemporary stars. BoxeR's image is big in the sense that he connected lots of people to the BW scene, but the image of someone like Leta has more to do with actual viewership.
Boxer moving to Starcraft 2 means Boxer still cares about the fans who wants to see him play.
The interview makes his position pretty clear, and I completely sympathize with him. I can see why a lot of the old gamers are transitioning -- because they just want to be able to play for their fans. If they were still good and their performance didn't hurt the teams, I'm sure they'd stay in Broodwar. But alot of old gamers are simply mascots and I'm sure they didn't feel like they wanted to be there.
Why not let him play SC2, he wasn't going to do anything for SKT1 from a performance perspective. This shouldn't affect the viewership for BW at all...
Wow, I'm not going to introduce some sort of a conspiracy theory about Boxer's move, but I'm pretty sure GOM were popping some major bottles of champaign, when they found out Boxer is switching for good. While the reason behind it sounds to be rather personal, truth being told it does sound convenient to reason your decision with "the fans want to see me play in my 30, I made that promise".
Besides, a lot of moto GP stars in the past switch to super bike in order to make the new thing more popular. Its completely out of my mind that Boxer will just leave BW, because SC2 is cool to play and because of "his promise" to the fans. I know he realizes his role in the scene was smth completely different.
As for the ppl who dont realize the marketing side of the whole thing, just imagine Sean Connery advertising some new age shaving gel rubbish
The way I see it though, is that despite Boxer being the symbol of professional BW, Boxer the player hasn't really been responsible for the success of the game for years. Of course we all got excited when Boxer played the great players of the time (and even win like against Savior on Monty Hall, for example) but many other people have been more responsible for keeping the scene alive than Boxer. Boxer as a player isn't relevant at all. A couple special matches here and there has very little relevancy to the scene as a whole even if those special matches might bring in fans all the time.
I don't know about you, but the past two years where a lot of the "old guard" have withered away on the sidelines like glorified cheerleaders was pretty shit. I don't think any anger towards these guys moving onto SC2 can be fully justified because to abstract them away from who they are as a player into some kind of symbolic figure is inadequate in keeping them relevant to the game. It is painfully obvious that players like Flash, Jaedong, Fantasy, Stork, Bisu, Effort ( ) are more important to the success of the game in both practical and symbolic ways than Boxer has been in any way for the past few years.
On October 10 2010 02:03 disciple wrote: Wow, I'm not going to introduce some sort of a conspiracy theory about Boxer's move, but I'm pretty sure GOM were popping some major bottles of champaign, when they found out Boxer is switching for good. While the reason behind it sounds to be rather personal, truth being told it does sound convenient to reason your decision with "the fans want to see me play in my 30, I made that promise".
I'm not sure what kind of "conspiracy theory" can even be suggested here. Like, so maybe GOM went to Boxer and said hey, we'd really love it if you came and played SC2? And Boxer said "yeah, then I can be on TV again"? How would that be underhanded, evil, insidious at all? I don't get what you're driving at. The reason Boxer's decision to play SC2 "sounds convenient" is because it is convenient, for all the reasons everyone has already pointed out in this thread.
To be honest I think you are just upset about BW losing steam in Korea, and are looking for (reaching too far for) rationalizations for your feelings.
On October 10 2010 02:02 Milkis wrote: Boxer moving to Starcraft 2 means Boxer still cares about the fans who wants to see him play.
The interview makes his position pretty clear, and I completely sympathize with him. I can see why a lot of the old gamers are transitioning -- because they just want to be able to play for their fans. If they were still good and their performance didn't hurt the teams, I'm sure they'd stay in Broodwar. But alot of old gamers are simply mascots and I'm sure they didn't feel like they wanted to be there.
This is ridiculous. Its like saying, some government will work hard and altruistic for the well being of the nation, because they made it pretty clear and an interview.
On October 10 2010 02:02 Milkis wrote: Boxer moving to Starcraft 2 means Boxer still cares about the fans who wants to see him play.
The interview makes his position pretty clear, and I completely sympathize with him. I can see why a lot of the old gamers are transitioning -- because they just want to be able to play for their fans. If they were still good and their performance didn't hurt the teams, I'm sure they'd stay in Broodwar. But alot of old gamers are simply mascots and I'm sure they didn't feel like they wanted to be there.
This is ridiculous. Its like saying, some government will work hard and altruistic for the well being of the nation, because they made it pretty clear and an interview.
Huh?
I'm just saying I agree with his position. He has made his position clear over years about his relationships to the fans, and I can easily see Boxer having his interaction with fans through games more important than anything else.
On October 10 2010 01:59 JWD wrote: I don't get it: you're disappointed that we're going to see Boxer on TV again? That he'll once again have a shot to be a top player? That he can now innovate in his own games, rather than through younger proteges?
If I was a golf fan and Tiger Woods would switch to mini golf I would be disappointed as well. I'm sure he would be awesome at it but It still wouldn't be the same.
Anyway, Boxer and Nada are the only reason I will follow the sc2 scene. Maybe TLO as well.
On October 10 2010 02:02 Milkis wrote: Boxer moving to Starcraft 2 means Boxer still cares about the fans who wants to see him play.
The interview makes his position pretty clear, and I completely sympathize with him. I can see why a lot of the old gamers are transitioning -- because they just want to be able to play for their fans. If they were still good and their performance didn't hurt the teams, I'm sure they'd stay in Broodwar. But alot of old gamers are simply mascots and I'm sure they didn't feel like they wanted to be there.
This is ridiculous. Its like saying, some government will work hard and altruistic for the well being of the nation, because they made it pretty clear and an interview.
Is there any reason we shouldn't believe what Boxer said in his interview?
Even as a professional gamer, isn't it simply obvious that these gamers would gravitate towards the option that would allow them to play competitively? I mean, how is a gamer to be dignified when he doesn't play on the stage anymore?
On October 10 2010 02:03 disciple wrote: Wow, I'm not going to introduce some sort of a conspiracy theory about Boxer's move, but I'm pretty sure GOM were popping some major bottles of champaign, when they found out Boxer is switching for good. While the reason behind it sounds to be rather personal, truth being told it does sound convenient to reason your decision with "the fans want to see me play in my 30, I made that promise".
I'm not sure what kind of "conspiracy theory" can even be suggested here. Like, so maybe GOM went to Boxer and said hey, we'd really love it if you came and played SC2? And Boxer said "yeah, then I can be on TV again"? How would that be underhanded, evil, insidious at all? I don't get what you're driving at. The reason Boxer's decision to play SC2 "sounds convenient" is because it is convenient, for all the reasons everyone has already pointed out in this thread.
To be honest I think you are just about BW losing steam in Korea, and are looking for (really reaching for) rationalizations for your feelings.
Yes, if I was GOM or Blizzard, I would've offered Boxer cash to play the game having in mind all the profits I'm going to get from it. Whats wrong with that? I'm not saying it was the actual case, but I dont care even if it was. Its business and I would think its something totally in order
I'm really happy boxer moved over. He's going to push so many others to move over to SC2, and pulls a lot of the e-sports weight on his shoulders that can affect negotiations too in ways.
The symbol isn't gone...the symbol is moving to SC2. That's the point It's not a publicity stunt lmao, it's a "boxer wants to play SC2."
How can you be disappointed at Boxer for helping push forward SC2 e-sports? Kespa is going to be bitter to the end - it's clear they don't want e-sports to succeed, they only want BROOD WAR e-sports to succeed.
Gretech and blizzard have stated many times they want both games to succeed and be shown. Both sides have huge egos...which is the main reason why negotiations are not going well.
All this fighting is over fucking timeslots because blizzard/gretech want to put SC2 in more primetime slots, and Kespa ofc do not want that.
But when it comes down to it, gretech/blizz want both games to keep on going, whereas Kespa only wants brood war to keep on going.
Guess what? Boxer probably wants the same. This guy is an icon you obviously know. Rather than being bitter like the corporates, he's just moving over to SC2, because he probably likes the game, and also wants it to succeed like SC1 did.
So why would you be disappointed that the biggest e-sports icon wants e-sports to succeed as a whole, instead of just brood war?
On October 10 2010 02:03 disciple wrote: Wow, I'm not going to introduce some sort of a conspiracy theory about Boxer's move, but I'm pretty sure GOM were popping some major bottles of champaign, when they found out Boxer is switching for good. While the reason behind it sounds to be rather personal, truth being told it does sound convenient to reason your decision with "the fans want to see me play in my 30, I made that promise".
I'm not sure what kind of "conspiracy theory" can even be suggested here. Like, so maybe GOM went to Boxer and said hey, we'd really love it if you came and played SC2? And Boxer said "yeah, then I can be on TV again"? How would that be underhanded, evil, insidious at all? I don't get what you're driving at. The reason Boxer's decision to play SC2 "sounds convenient" is because it is convenient, for all the reasons everyone has already pointed out in this thread.
To be honest I think you are just about BW losing steam in Korea, and are looking for (really reaching for) rationalizations for your feelings.
Yes, if I was GOM or Blizzard, I would've offered Boxer cash to play the game having in mind all the profits I'm going to get from it. Whats wrong with that? I'm not saying it was the actual case, but I dont care even if it was. Its business and I would think its something totally in order, even if it happened
I agree (not that GOM did pay Boxer—which is totally unfounded speculation—but that if it did, there would be nothing wrong with the transaction). But if you think it's "totally in order" I don't understand why you seem so upset about it.
i could understand your view if boxer had gone on to acting (or some other act of perceived selling out) but he's still in starcraft and ESPORTS. after all the work he's done for a 10 year old game, how can you be anything but glad that he has found something else to be interested in? i don't understand this sense of entitlement you have, that someone like him has to be bound to the empire he built.
i agree with jwd that this seems mostly about your fear of broodwar's demise. if boxer finds merit in sc2, then you should give it a shot too.
I wish I had seen Boxer play a few more games like Nada did. I'm not a fan of SC2 but it'll be interesting watching him dominate along with July/Nada. I hope it goes well for them ^_^
On October 10 2010 02:03 disciple wrote: Wow, I'm not going to introduce some sort of a conspiracy theory about Boxer's move, but I'm pretty sure GOM were popping some major bottles of champaign, when they found out Boxer is switching for good. While the reason behind it sounds to be rather personal, truth being told it does sound convenient to reason your decision with "the fans want to see me play in my 30, I made that promise".
I'm not sure what kind of "conspiracy theory" can even be suggested here. Like, so maybe GOM went to Boxer and said hey, we'd really love it if you came and played SC2? And Boxer said "yeah, then I can be on TV again"? How would that be underhanded, evil, insidious at all? I don't get what you're driving at. The reason Boxer's decision to play SC2 "sounds convenient" is because it is convenient, for all the reasons everyone has already pointed out in this thread.
To be honest I think you are just about BW losing steam in Korea, and are looking for (really reaching for) rationalizations for your feelings.
Yes, if I was GOM or Blizzard, I would've offered Boxer cash to play the game having in mind all the profits I'm going to get from it. Whats wrong with that? I'm not saying it was the actual case, but I dont care even if it was. Its business and I would think its something totally in order, even if it happened
I agree. But if you think it's "totally in order" I don't understand why you seem so upset about it.
because, even if I understand Boxer's personal motives to leave BW, when I put things on a balance it just seems irresponsible to me to leave sc1 right now, with all the uncertainty surrounding the upcoming season in BW. At least he could've waited for 3 months or smth like that for sc1 to get rolling again. I personally relate him to bw and even if I'm happy there will be more chances for him to be on TV, it was going to make me as a fan of both Boxer and bw more relaxed about the future of my favorite game if he was just there for a couple more months. Now its just like the worst timing possible
Boxer, even in recent times, was acting as the ambassador of the players in the world of Esports. I remember an interview where he said he met with the president of the Ministry of Culture and shit. He was still doing stuff other than acting as a player, but now he isn't in BW's world any more.
What's so hard to understand ? I agree with the op. It is a good choice personnally, but as I dislike sc2 and want bw to live on, I'm disappointed. It will clearly weaken the scene. Besides I'm pretty sure we won't see anything amazing from here, as there is nothing to see in sc2. But hey, I'll look his games, Nada's, and maybe will I be proved wrong.
I'm not sure how Boxer staying would have changed anything seeing as he isn't relevant to BW as a player anymore, and regardless of any sort of symbolism, the practical player that actually plays and is relevant to the higher levels of competition are the people that actually matter and have the tangible weight to keep the game alive. In this sense the news of Effort retiring had far greater implications to the life of BW than Boxer moving on to SC2 because Effort was actually relevant at the highest level of the game while Boxer was nothing but a glorified cheerleader.
Boxer is not responsible for the BW scene. I know that with great power comes great responsibility and all that stuff, but Boxer has done an amazing amount for the BW scene and he is at a point where he must choose between his own ambitions and the well-being of the BW scene. I think Boxer deserves to do what is best for his career and what he enjoys. This will definitely hurt the BW scene, but I think it is mature enough to stand on its own. Waiting 3 months would not have made any difference; he is the emperor today and so will he be in 3 months and so will he be in 3 years.
I consider boxer more of an e-athlete (or whatever someone doing e-sports is called), than just a BW player.
I agree that Blizzard and Gom may have thought about paying boxer, but I really doubt that Boxer would accept such a bribe (maybe I'm naive). Even if he accepted it, I doubt he would let himself switch because of it. I would like to think that Boxer has a lot of integrity and that he won't participate in such stuff.
I really hope BW and SC2 can coexist peacefully, both are enjoyable e-sports IMO and there is no reason any one of them need to dominate completely.
Yeah it's sad, I would have been a lot happier if he had stayed around and promoted brood war as much as possible from the sidelines, continued as a coach.
Second best thing would have been if he started doing something completely unrelated, university, maybe an acting career (lol).
But seriously, sc2? actively promoting a phenomenon that's about to cause the death of bw? Yeah it makes me a bit unhappy. I mean I don't really think of myself as an esports fan, watching computer games in general on TV has no alure to me. I am a brood war fan, I enjoy watching brood war.
I guess this will be the final test, if brood war survives this then maybe it has finally reached a point where it's a real sport and not just a computer game. I don't think it will though, maybe if it weren't for blizzard's lawyers things would look different but as it stands I'm quite pessimistic.
On October 10 2010 02:32 corumjhaelen wrote: What's so hard to understand ? I agree with the op. It is a good choice personnally, but as I dislike sc2 and want bw to live on, I'm disappointed. It will clearly weaken the scene I'm pretty sure we won't see anything amazing from here, as there is nothing to see in sc2. But hey, I'll look his games, Nada's, and maybe will I be proved wrong.
This just seems like an extremely selfish attitude: 1) Boxer is doing the right thing for his career, but 2) "I dislike SC2" therefore 3) I'm going to blast Boxer for his decision
Show some respect for Boxer's choice. He's always had a gut for doing the right thing for eSports.
Nobody should ever be forced to be just a symbol. Boxer may be the symbol of BW, but he's also Lim Yo Hwan, a man who has every right to make whatever decision he deems right.
Part of me considers Nada/Boxer to be betraying BW in a way. On the other hand, I understand that they want to be able to play again. But I suspect this will be short lived because as soon as a good player from BW decides to cash in, a lot of people won't be switching because they know they won't be winning much. I can't really say what I think about this topic because I don't really know what I think of it. Also, I honestly think Boxer is less relevant nowadays than one of TaekBangLeeSsang, especially Jaedong, even if you consider his past, because his fanbase is actually quite a bit lower than all of them.
On October 10 2010 02:32 corumjhaelen wrote: What's so hard to understand ? I agree with the op. It is a good choice personnally, but as I dislike sc2 and want bw to live on, I'm disappointed. It will clearly weaken the scene I'm pretty sure we won't see anything amazing from here, as there is nothing to see in sc2. But hey, I'll look his games, Nada's, and maybe will I be proved wrong.
This just seems like an extremely selfish attitude: 1) Boxer is doing the right thing for his career, but 2) "I dislike SC2" therefore 3) I'm going to blast Boxer for his decision
Show some respect for Boxer's choice! He's always had a gut for doing the right thing for eSports in the past no?
I show some respect for Boxer's choice. I mean I even say that I'm going to try to watch him on sc2. Im' just not happy with his decision, and I'm saying it. That's pretty different. I'm not insulting him or anything. I guess the only disrespect is that I'm not following him blindly (never been his biggest fan anyways, even if I acknowledge his greatness). Well, back to not posting about sc2 anymore, should not have stopped in the first place...
On October 10 2010 02:37 maareek wrote: Nobody should ever be forced to be just a symbol. Boxer may be the symbol of BW, but he's also Lim Yo Hwan, a man who has every right to make whatever decision he deems right.
This is basically what I think. He can go become a fly fisherman if he wants, it's his life. Did we have this kind of reaction to Effort retiring?
On October 10 2010 02:21 NonFactor wrote: Haters gonna hate.
Boxer made the best choice for himself - and his fans.
Fans of broodwar are fans of boxer. Can you honestly say that this was the best choice for all his fans?
Do fans really get anything out of Boxer from just watching him sit on the side all year except for a couple of games every year? Are the fans justified in wanting to press down a player and prevent him from carrying out his career in the most lively way just for their symbolic satisfaction?
On October 10 2010 02:32 corumjhaelen wrote: What's so hard to understand ? I agree with the op. It is a good choice personnally, but as I dislike sc2 and want bw to live on, I'm disappointed. It will clearly weaken the scene I'm pretty sure we won't see anything amazing from here, as there is nothing to see in sc2. But hey, I'll look his games, Nada's, and maybe will I be proved wrong.
This just seems like an extremely selfish attitude: 1) Boxer is doing the right thing for his career, but 2) "I dislike SC2" therefore 3) I'm going to blast Boxer for his decision
Show some respect for Boxer's choice. He's always had a gut for doing the right thing for eSports.
You are missing the point. There are plenty of people on here who don't care about esports, they only care about broodwar. Even if this is the right decision for the future of competitive esports, it is still detramental to the only faset of esports we care about. I don't think that Boxer should be tied to BW for the rest of his life, and i can understand his decision. But that dosn't mean that I have to like it. I guess when it comes down to it, you can either be a fan of "boxer the human" or "boxer the BW icon". I was a fan of the latter and, unfortunently, that entity just died.
Boxer sitting on the SKT1 bench, slowly fading away was not the right thing for him or his fans.
Boxer always deserved to be in the spotlight, to lead the way of e-sports with his carisma, experience and willingness to play for his fans rather than himself.
If this is what makes Boxer happy and that will put the spotlight back on him yet again then I'll be happy for him.
This is a natural step for the emperor on his route to world domination. How can you be disappoint of something that has been witten in stars millions of years ago ?
Im a big time BW follower and i totally agree on his move to SC2. He is really doing it for the fans, i mean when you saw boxer play on TV and win his first game in a long time like this:
It created alot of excitement just to see him play again. SC2 will be no different in the sense that after 10 years of Esports, Boxer is still making a name for himself.
On October 10 2010 02:37 maareek wrote: Nobody should ever be forced to be just a symbol. Boxer may be the symbol of BW, but he's also Lim Yo Hwan, a man who has every right to make whatever decision he deems right.
QFT, fuckin' beautiful post.
Long story short, the majority of this topic is just a bunch of people who aren't interested in SC2, which is fine, it's their own personal preference. They can't handle that one of the former allstars is moving on because of his need to remain as a progamer. Would you really say that BoxeR was doing well in PL nowadays? How often did BoxeR play games in the last two years? How often did he win?
If he continued on with Brood War, all he would be is just a placeholder on the SKT1 lineup, a symbol of what greatness he once had. With SC2 comes another chance to be great, look at all of the former progamers who are currently top SC2 players. If he does this, he can really revitalize his career rather than just being on the sidelines.
BoxeR fans, look beyond the fact that you may not like SC2 over BW, but look toward his well being. BroodWar fans, the game isn't over yet...there are plenty of people just like you in Korea who aren't ready for Proleague to be over yet and I'm sure it won't go down without a fight. But don't be afraid to move on to the next game, toward a next generation.
On October 10 2010 02:23 disciple wrote: At least he could've waited for 3 months or smth like that for sc1 to get rolling again. I personally relate him to bw and even if I'm happy there will be more chances for him to be on TV, it was going to make me as a fan of both Boxer and bw more relaxed about the future of my favorite game if he was just there for a couple more months. Now its just like the worst timing possible
If he got a new contract with SKT it would have meant staying with Broodwar at least one more year. Even retiring without switching to SC2 for 3 month would have meant missing at least 1 if not 2 seasons of GSL, hurting his chances of getting into the league that follows GSL.
You're asking him to give up his best and probably last chance to compete at the top level. A sacrifice that would make very little difference in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately if Proleague continues BW lives on, if it doesn't it dies.
On October 10 2010 02:32 corumjhaelen wrote: What's so hard to understand ? I agree with the op. It is a good choice personnally, but as I dislike sc2 and want bw to live on, I'm disappointed. It will clearly weaken the scene I'm pretty sure we won't see anything amazing from here, as there is nothing to see in sc2. But hey, I'll look his games, Nada's, and maybe will I be proved wrong.
This just seems like an extremely selfish attitude: 1) Boxer is doing the right thing for his career, but 2) "I dislike SC2" therefore 3) I'm going to blast Boxer for his decision
Show some respect for Boxer's choice. He's always had a gut for doing the right thing for eSports.
You are missing the point. There are plenty of people on here who don't care about esports, they only care about broodwar. Even if this is the right decision for the future of competitive esports, it is still detramental to the only faset of esports we care about. I don't think that Boxer should be tied to BW for the rest of his life, and i can understand his decision. But that dosn't mean that I have to like it. I guess when it comes down to it, you can either be a fan of "boxer the human" or "boxer the BW icon". I was a fan of the latter and, unfortunently, that entity just died.
maybe you should start to care about esports then. this is part of the message boxer's move to sc2.
Boxer probably win anything, and he would've probably been better off staying in BW.
Its not just his mechanics that have seriously decayed, but his reaction timing has slowed down by a lot since his prime. At best, he'll only be another TLO, much more shortlived though.
Well, I do think that the captain should go down with his own ship..., but i guess this is a way for boxer to keep his promise to his fans. However, I wouldn't be surprised if blizzard offered boxer money to switch -_-
ok so I love BW not so sure about sc2 but the thing is I first liked SCBW because of 'SlayerS'_BoxeR, now his bw time is up so I'll cheer for him in sc2 I'm so happy to see him playing again as manofoneway GO BOXER!!!!
On October 10 2010 01:59 JWD wrote: I don't get it: you're disappointed that we're going to see Boxer on TV again? That he'll once again have a shot to be a top player? That he can now innovate in his own games, rather than through younger proteges?
If I was a golf fan and Tiger Woods would switch to mini golf I would be disappointed as well. I'm sure he would be awesome at it but It still wouldn't be the same.
Anyway, Boxer and Nada are the only reason I will follow the sc2 scene. Maybe TLO as well.
I hope you realize that is a very poor analogy -_- Actually one of the worst I've ever seen.
The fact that I prefer BW over SC2, doesnt mean I cant recognize the potential of SC2, its not like I dont care about it, I really think its a worthy sequel. Having that said, everything that will lead to the faster demise of the BW scene is not welcome in my book. Maybe its a good thing in the grand scale of things, but ppl who make generalizing statements that boxer fans should support him with his choice are wrong.
The very notion that you think Boxer would take a bribe just to play SC2 is ridiculous... reads kind of like those 9/11 threads. Boxer is playing SC2 so he can show good games to his fans, as simple as that.
Like you said, the BW scene was going to die sooner or later, and there is no point for Boxer to stick with the sinking ship. You think he'd rather be a old-school hasbeen than a pro in a new game? As for me, I just wanna see him play again.
On October 10 2010 03:46 teamsolid wrote: The very notion that you think Boxer would take a bribe just to play SC2 is ridiculous... reads kind of like those 9/11 threads. Boxer is playing SC2 so he can show good games to his fans, as simple as that.
yeah, maybe get some new friends along the way and finally win the pokemon league
While I love BW more than most here, I'd much rather Boxer go and actually get games in SC2 (even though imo it's an inferior product) rather than just be wheeled out for a game against Yellow every few months. Good luck to him imo.
As long as it doesn't trigger a cascade that kills BW completely. Which would be horrible.
If you're a fan of Boxer, this should at least not bother you. Boxer is not the first issue of the Fantastic Four, to be perfectly preserved in a vacuum-sealed plastic cover so that he can sit nice and neatly on someone's bench, he's a human being and wants to continue fighting for his fans. Boxer effectively does not play Starcraft 1 in the proscene anymore, regardless. If SC2 does not interest you, which is perfectly reasonable, then you can still sit by and enjoy all of Boxer's old accomplishments.
At the very least SC2 gives Boxer some new areas to work in, and a good chance of really showing what he can do, as opposed to doing poorly in every sc1 progame in the future.
The Broodwar scene is all about JaeDong and Flash right now so good move from the old pro gamers to switch to SC 2. Also, I don't think blizzard would have this "conspiracy" of getting the emperor to switch.
One thing I'm certain is that if KesPa removes all his achievements while in SC;BW.. there is hell to pay!
Btw, they're pretty much a very open-minded with the sexiest that is SC 2 right, I think with this old pro gamers coming from the scene, a lot of new strats will be open for us to emulate!
At first I read this thread title as you being disappointed in Boxer for switching to SC2. I totally don't understand that perspective and I think it's silly if people actually think like that.
But from later posts it seems more like you are disappointed that Boxer is switching to SC2, which seems reasonable to me.
Personally I'm happy to see what he can do in a new game (still hoping he'll switch to Protoss! But SC2 Terran seems better suited to him)
I'm not quite sure why anyone would be upset about his move. It means we should hopefully get to see him playing again and the thing is, Brood War is getting really old in terms of years of age now, it's not going to last forever and most games never will when it comes to eSports.
If people want to see the older players from Brood War playing again, the only real way it'll happen is with SC2 I think. I'd rather get to see Boxer play again, rather than never see him play at all.
Don't worry too much. BW only became a true e-sports with the Korean government's support and ultimately it's survival will depend on how much support the government is going to give it. We shall just have to wait and see how this all plays out.
On October 10 2010 03:57 Licmyobelisk wrote: The Broodwar scene is all about JaeDong and Flash right now so good move from the old pro gamers to switch to SC 2. Also, I don't think blizzard would have this "conspiracy" of getting the emperor to switch.
One thing I'm certain is that if KesPa removes all his achievements while in SC;BW.. there is hell to pay!
Btw, they're pretty much a very open-minded with the sexiest that is SC 2 right, I think with this old pro gamers coming from the scene, a lot of new strats will be open for us to emulate!
kespa makes some weird moves from time to time, but they would never ever do that.
Boxer's days in bw are over. He is a symbol, not a player. I don't care what he does with the rest of his life except I hope he will stay in eSports, since he is a good representative, and luckily he'll do just so.
Yeah, I'm with JWD here. There shouldn't be any reason to theorize conspiracies. I think anyone can believe that Boxer wants a chance to PLAY again and be that guy on stage holding the trophy, rather than just a coach, watching other players get all the glory, and quietly nurturing the industry (which quite honestly is corrupted to hell by Kespa corporate interests, cheaters (like Savior), and a new guard of god-tier players (Jaedong/Flash).
I don't see how Boxer feels there's anything left for him to do in the BW scene. There are established teams with corporate sponsors, so many leagues and tournies that last year the top players almost had complete meltdowns from exhaustion and overplay. The prize pools for tournies are more than enough to support a pro-gaming career for the best players. There really wasn't anything left in the BW scene for Boxer to do. If you can name something meaningful Boxer still had to accomplish in the BW scene and explain how Boxer actually has a meaningful chance of attaining those accomplishments, I might be more prone to believe the conspiracy theories, but the way I see it is Boxer's moving on because SC2 offers room for growth. BW offers none.
Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2. I'm still not convinced IEM or GSL will foster a long-lasting interest in SC2.
As far as for the post itself, though I feel a bit sad as well due to Boxer leaving BW, he did the right thing as far as his fandom and his personal career go. What is more, he did it right. No leaving the team with a lie that he doesn't want to be a progamer anymore, no retirement lies, just a letter to the community and terminating his contract. I feel happy for him. Unless the MVP thing was a mistranslation though, MVP can suck something cucumber shaped.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
are you fucking serious? its pretty obvious that sc2 benefits from boxer switching, while broodwar is worse off. a large part of sc2 is currently supported by foreigners, and foreigners imo are very fickle about the games they play. if broodwar "rolls over and dies" then i'm positive its spelling out the end of starcraft. you can just kiss goodbye to your IEM and GSL and whatever other crap there is out there, because war4 will come out, or people will just naturally gravitate away because they're immature and realized that they'll never beat the koreans. dont be so ignorant of whats going on.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
Can't believe this guy hasn't gotten warned or banned.
Why don't people understand that Boxer, while legendary, is still just a gamer that wants to be the best in a game? He has no chances of winning or even playing in Broodwar anymore, and just coaching the game has no future or satisfaction for him and his fans.
Stop seeing him as just the emperor and god of starcraft.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
Can't believe this guy hasn't gotten warned or banned.
Well he has the same opinion alot of BW players have about SC2, just wanting it to fail, and they post as such, they would have to be all warned or banned for it too.
and did it ever occur to everyone that boxer may care more about his fans and his own enjoyment thann about brood war?
Boxer was hardly every playing anymore anyways. The biggest difference is we'll be seeing him play competitively more, and he'll probably go farther. It's his choice to make and it's the right one. He wants to be successful at something new.
Boxer enjoys Starcraft 2 a lot and he wants another chance to be on the top. How can you be disappointed with him for that? He has taken the role of an icon for SCBW long enough and the scene will live on without him.
Boxer has nothing left to contribute to the BW scene, he's been playing it for years and he's never going to be able to overtake the newer generation. If he retired from BW 2 years ago most people wouldn't have noticed. sc2 is new, fresh, less mechanics, and a chance to see boxer actually compete. You really want Boxer to sit on SKT1 Bench and practice a sc:bw all day? He can do what he wants. Who are you to criticize him?
This is a really exciting time for SC2. I don't think he had much left to give in SC1. In SC2 he can lead the way just like he did before. I'm really excited about it, though I feel your pain.
Boxer was a fan favorite, this is true, but he doesn't have the skills par to someone great like flash or Light. If either one of them left Bw I would be excited for SC2, but then I would feel terribly bad for SC1. On the bright side, if you look at the pattern. A few of the very "old" gosu progamers switched to SC2, this should mean that in time the tend will be for others to switch as well. Flash and Jaedong included. The thing that is bright about this, in my opinion, is going to be a BIG BANG BLOWOUT of epic games before SC1 korean leagues die down. I expect to see some epic games.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
He gave up a comfy salary to keep gaming. That's competitive spirit imo
He's never going to be a force in BW again, so he wouldn't be signing with SKT1 for anything but the money or to support the team from a coaching side (dunno if he does that)
On October 10 2010 06:29 Offhand wrote: How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Sad he's left BW but it hardly impacts todays BW scene. I'm more happy hes being his own man, laying his life (ok maybe a bit overdramatic) on the line for the sake of his fans, rather than dissapearing into the background of SKT. If he can be the rolemodel for todays SC2 players then I'll be a happy man. Though maybe thats just my opinion.
as famous as boxer is for sc:bw he really hasnt been able to do anything for a long time now. Just enjoy that game against killer when he nuked him on tornado. Furthermore, if you think this is terrible, Nada is the all time king of BW... So, I don't see why you are arguing this.
I understand your argument, but you can't fault him for going. Realistically, he's never going to be on the A-team again (I'm not trying to take away from his accomplishments). He knows this, we know this, and he wants to be on top again. You can't fault him.
Besides this is good for Starcraft as a whole, with Boxer in SC2 everyone will focus their attention on it. Yeah I'm sad about what looks like the "death" of BW, but it was inevitable.
it sucks just as much as when july was confirmed to leave. i have to let go of my longtime hopes of boxer ever becoming relevant to BW again :\
if he is actaully able to compete and "be boxer", then I will be OK with it. but if he just plays the way he played BW in his last year (judging from his all-stars games and heritage league games) and just plays standard then I will be really disappointed.
how the fuck is boxer supposed to be boxer in a game where you can't even build a barracks before supply depot?!?
maybe boxer will finally be the person to make sc2 enjoyable to watch, but i have a lot of doubts. i just dont see him being much more relevant to the scene than he was in BW, at least not a year from now. if he doesnt do good in gsl2 i dont think he will ever do good.
Your disappointment is misguided. Boxer playing SC2 is something entirely different then the current SC:BW scene. Boxer is a novelty in the game, just like Pele is to football. Nice having him around, but we don't expect a gold in champions league from him any more. The SC2 scene is still very new and bland compared to the variety of styles and personalities of SC:BW.
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On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Calm down about boxer leaving? The vast majority supports his move, though feels a bit teary-eyed for all the awesome nostalgic moments that have already been witnessed. His moves may not be capable of being replicated in SC2, and that still remains a concern, but as far as support goes, most are behind him. I'd say that's pretty calm. I stand by my quoted part, however. Saying SC2 is better than SCBW is acceptable in my book. Saying BW is better than SC2 is (correct) OK in my book. Saying either of them should die is an insult to the fans of that particular game, especially in the uncertain state we're currently in. The fact that BW fans can put up with ancient graphics (which I personally find beautiful, especially compared to the clusterfuck of SC2) and wake up at night to watch games live for 12 or more years should give you an indication how much the game is loved. Even the people earning their living with SC2 are still sceptical about it, so why do people preach that SC2 is THE way? In fact, however annoying BW fanboys are, SC2 fanboys reply to those people that it may become more like BW, as if that is a valid reason to lay down all the second thoughts and doubts that SC2 has generated within the half a year it could be played en masse. I hope you can at least somewhat relate. BW fanboys should try to do the same thing, however.
On October 10 2010 06:24 Khol wrote: On the bright side, if you look at the pattern. A few of the very "old" gosu progamers switched to SC2, this should mean that in time the tend will be for others to switch as well. Flash and Jaedong included. The thing that is bright about this, in my opinion, is going to be a BIG BANG BLOWOUT of epic games before SC1 korean leagues die down. I expect to see some epic games.
Edited just to reply to you. Even if we'll get to see really epic games, BW dying is in no shape or form anything short of a catastrophe for me. If the SC2 expansions manage to change my mind, I'm willing to consider it a miracle and personally apologize to everyone at Blizzard whom I doubted.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Why should we care which game has more shiny graphics?
I feel sad that Boxer switched to SC2. I can understand his decision but still it doesn't stop me from feeling a bit disappointed that he is among the first few progamers that made the switch...
Anyway, I hope that he will be very successful in SC2...
The OP is being selfish. There are two things that can happen.
1. Boxer switches to SC2. His fans get to see him play on stage once again. 2. Boxer stays with BW. His fans never get to see him play, and he remains locked up in the SKT house as a figurehead of the sport.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Have you ever heard about Psychological projection? You are doing it right now. You are acting like an annoying kid, doing your own mantra and missing the point entirely. The point is not about Boxer's career, it's about what his decision may be showing. Even if it's absolutely the best for him.
If you don't care about what keeps people interested about BW then don't post at all here. You are as ignorant and not constructive as one can get.
And I am saying this even though I am only playing SC2, I haven't played or at least logged in to BW BN for so long my accounts start to expire and I haven't seen live BW game in maybe a year now.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Have you ever heard about Psychological projection? You are doing it right now. You are acting like an annoying kid, doing your own mantra and missing the point entirely. The point is not about Boxer's career, it's about what his decision may be showing. Even if it's absolutely the best for him.
If you don't care about what keeps people interested about BW then don't post at all here. You are as ignorant and not constructive as one can get.
And I am saying this even though I am only playing SC2, I haven't played or at least logged in to BW BN for so long my accounts start to expire and I haven't seen live BW game in maybe a year now.
I'm not the one opposed to change. I'm not the person trying to keep a 12 year old game that is relevant only to Koreans and a few foreigners (all of which are pretty much on this site) as the figurehead of esports forever. You don't see the kind of attitude BW fanboys posses about SC2 in any other competitive game, competitive RTS games included.
SC2 gets an enormous amount of hate from BW fans because they feel threatened by it. BW stopped being important to anyone outside Korea a looooong time ago, just accept that. I get that watching "the scene" die might suck for you, but the rest of the world moved past BW in like 2006.
If Boxer benchwarming STK is what keeps BW fans happy, then there's something seriously wrong with BW fans.
The only things disappointing about Boxer were his last couple of Proleague games. They were terrible. I don't think Boxer will stand out in SC2, but it's better than having him sit around on the bench just for his celebrity status. OOV had a much greater strategic and coaching influence on SKT1/Fantasy. If BW is going to last, it should be able to do so on the charisma and refined play of the current generation. Good for Boxer.
Boxer actually playing and being the hero in SC2 that he was in the beginning of Brood War is soooo much better than bench warming for STK and performing as their Tossgirl. Except for the part where he plays even less than her.
Boxer playing is better than Boxer being just another coach, as well, at least to me.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
are you fucking serious? its pretty obvious that sc2 benefits from boxer switching, while broodwar is worse off. a large part of sc2 is currently supported by foreigners, and foreigners imo are very fickle about the games they play. if broodwar "rolls over and dies" then i'm positive its spelling out the end of starcraft. you can just kiss goodbye to your IEM and GSL and whatever other crap there is out there, because war4 will come out, or people will just naturally gravitate away because they're immature and realized that they'll never beat the koreans. dont be so ignorant of whats going on.
I foresee, fantasy's play deteriorating? (probably does not hold true anymore though) and every other progamer and commentators feeling disheartened. Sigh, but anyways Boxer probably feels bad about leaving to attempt his last chance of being successful as a progamer.
On October 10 2010 01:53 luckySe7en wrote: SC2 is awesome.
User was warned for this and other low-content posts
haha. fail. But seriously, BoxeR moving to SC2 is a huge dissapointment to me. I hope he will still help SKT. Boy, wouldn't it be ironic if the same man popularized BW and destroyed BW.
It's great that Boxer has moved over to SC2. Boxer is known to be a great, if not the greatest innovator in e-sports. For a game that's been played for 12 years or so, and has most of the innovation potential squeezed out of it, Boxer can't shine at what he is known for. Going to SC2 allows him a much greater opportunity for innovating again.
This whole post (OP) starts with the presumption that BW is all which is good, and SC2 isn't & probably can't be. So what if it can? What if SC2 can be eventually developed to truly improve the gameplay we love, and advance RTS? Would you blame the Emperor for his sense and desire to take part in this development? Maybe SC2 isn't the enemy, maybe it's the friend who needs our help.
If indeed SC2 is bound to replace BW eventually, then we better start seriously develop it asap, because this will take a long time and a lot of effort. In view of this, Boxer is probably doing the starcraft community the best service, contributing to establish a new meaningful esports scene.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Have you ever heard about Psychological projection? You are doing it right now. You are acting like an annoying kid, doing your own mantra and missing the point entirely. The point is not about Boxer's career, it's about what his decision may be showing. Even if it's absolutely the best for him.
If you don't care about what keeps people interested about BW then don't post at all here. You are as ignorant and not constructive as one can get.
And I am saying this even though I am only playing SC2, I haven't played or at least logged in to BW BN for so long my accounts start to expire and I haven't seen live BW game in maybe a year now.
I'm not the one opposed to change. I'm not the person trying to keep a 12 year old game that is relevant only to Koreans and a few foreigners (all of which are pretty much on this site) as the figurehead of esports forever. You don't see the kind of attitude BW fanboys posses about SC2 in any other competitive game, competitive RTS games included.
SC2 gets an enormous amount of hate from BW fans because they feel threatened by it. BW stopped being important to anyone outside Korea a looooong time ago, just accept that. I get that watching "the scene" die might suck for you, but the rest of the world moved past BW in like 2006.
If Boxer benchwarming STK is what keeps BW fans happy, then there's something seriously wrong with BW fans.
I did say I'm laying off from here for few days/weeks with limited visits, but never thought that I was going to post here until I read this.
Do I really feel threatened by SC2 scene killing off BW? No. Why? Because it will happen someday one way or another. Until then, I'm going to enjoy BW instead of seeing some stupid ball vs ball action which can be solved by magic box, not through micro.
I don't think you get the point of Boxer = BW till this announcement. He was one of the primary reasons why BW got so famous in South Korea. He was one of the primary reasons why many people started playing BW in Korea, if they haven't already. He's been invited to the Blue House by the president of South Korea due to his status in BW.
Yet we didn't see him play that much after 2006.... or did we?
Boxer keeps playing for ACE, wins major matches against players (Boxer vs Savior on Monty Hall anyone?), and then returns to SKT 2 years later. After that we don't see him play as much. However, we know that he's been active as ever. Why? Fantasy vs Flash. Who came up with the timed proxy 2 fact vulture build that completely destroyed KT during SKT vs KT, ace match? Not iloveoov, not fantasy, but Boxer did. When Boxer returned in 2009, their team started doing much, much better. Coincidence? I think not.
I don't care if he sucks ass in BW. I think most people can agree (the ones who know Boxer's era and his 'empire') that this is huge loss to BW. When it came down to play style few years ago, Boxer's plays were very innovative, creative, and mind-shocking to many viewers. When it came down to team's psychological welfare, Boxer was in the center. He was not the coach of SKT (nor even assistant coach), yet in practical terms, he was.
You don't know what he has done for BW, only heard stories about it. And you're trying to compare the BW fans to some idiots who's trying to keep the old tradition alive? Is this fucking fomos or something? BW fans have something to say about the situation, and so does the SC2 fans. You're one of those few 'special' people where you cross the border to start some stupid argument which leads to nowhere, maybe except putting more distance between BW fans and SC2 fans.
I'm a BW fan. Does it mean that I hate SC2? Hell no. There are things that I do not like from the game (compared to BW), which ties me to BW more than SC2, but that doesn't necessarily mean that SC2 sucks ass. You, on the other hand, cannot live on with BW existing with SC2. You want to kill a scene that has been huge in the past only because it's 'old' and 'outdated'. You are one of the sources of pain in e-Sports scene these days: BW fans arguing that SC2 sucks dick, and vice versa. You guys cannot have both games co-existing at the same time.
You're one of the few people in teamliquid who's turning teamliquid boards into fomos boards. And trust me. Fomos is a LOT more like 4chan.
And you're trying to argue this while spelling SKT wrong?
On October 10 2010 09:35 figq wrote: This whole post (OP) starts with the presumption that BW is all which is good, and SC2 isn't & probably can't be. So what if it can? What if SC2 can be eventually developed to truly improve the gameplay we love, and advance RTS? Would you blame the Emperor for his sense and desire to take part in this development? Maybe SC2 isn't the enemy, maybe it's the friend who needs our help.
If indeed SC2 is bound to replace BW eventually, then we better start seriously develop it asap, because this will take a long time and a lot of effort. In view of this, Boxer is probably doing the starcraft community the best service, contributing to establish a new meaningful esports scene.
Boxer moving on indeed makes it sad, and same goes to most BW fans at this time.
Yet, it also means that we will see his innovative style of playing in SC2, and bring innovations to the builds and tricks.
Although I didn't want to see him move on, Boxer did the right thing. He's willing to contribute more to the fans so that we can enjoy more matches, while competing on the highest level at the same time.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Have you ever heard about Psychological projection? You are doing it right now. You are acting like an annoying kid, doing your own mantra and missing the point entirely. The point is not about Boxer's career, it's about what his decision may be showing. Even if it's absolutely the best for him.
If you don't care about what keeps people interested about BW then don't post at all here. You are as ignorant and not constructive as one can get.
And I am saying this even though I am only playing SC2, I haven't played or at least logged in to BW BN for so long my accounts start to expire and I haven't seen live BW game in maybe a year now.
I'm not the one opposed to change. I'm not the person trying to keep a 12 year old game that is relevant only to Koreans and a few foreigners (all of which are pretty much on this site) as the figurehead of esports forever. You don't see the kind of attitude BW fanboys posses about SC2 in any other competitive game, competitive RTS games included.
SC2 gets an enormous amount of hate from BW fans because they feel threatened by it. BW stopped being important to anyone outside Korea a looooong time ago, just accept that. I get that watching "the scene" die might suck for you, but the rest of the world moved past BW in like 2006.
If Boxer benchwarming STK is what keeps BW fans happy, then there's something seriously wrong with BW fans.
If making such wild generalizations based on a single opinion is what keeps SC2 fans happy, then there's something seriously wrong with SC2 fans
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
This is downright disrespectful to BW fans who dislike SC2.
The BW kids really need to calm down about this though. We get it, you only like BW and it's the only game ever worth playing. The "it's new so it sucks" mantra isn't doing BW players any favors.
This is at the point where BW fans get upset over losing players that haven't mattered to BW for years. Seriously, when was Boxer going to make his his big BW comeback? When was he going to develop that Flash/JD apm?
How long were people going to continue watching a game with graphics that were middle of the road in 1998 anyway?
Not particularly aimed at you but just annoying BW fanboys in general.
Have you ever heard about Psychological projection? You are doing it right now. You are acting like an annoying kid, doing your own mantra and missing the point entirely. The point is not about Boxer's career, it's about what his decision may be showing. Even if it's absolutely the best for him.
If you don't care about what keeps people interested about BW then don't post at all here. You are as ignorant and not constructive as one can get.
And I am saying this even though I am only playing SC2, I haven't played or at least logged in to BW BN for so long my accounts start to expire and I haven't seen live BW game in maybe a year now.
I'm not the one opposed to change. I'm not the person trying to keep a 12 year old game that is relevant only to Koreans and a few foreigners (all of which are pretty much on this site) as the figurehead of esports forever. You don't see the kind of attitude BW fanboys posses about SC2 in any other competitive game, competitive RTS games included.
SC2 gets an enormous amount of hate from BW fans because they feel threatened by it. BW stopped being important to anyone outside Korea a looooong time ago, just accept that. I get that watching "the scene" die might suck for you, but the rest of the world moved past BW in like 2006.
If Boxer benchwarming STK is what keeps BW fans happy, then there's something seriously wrong with BW fans.
I did say I'm laying off from here for few days/weeks with limited visits, but never thought that I was going to post here until I read this.
Do I really feel threatened by SC2 scene killing off BW? No. Why? Because it will happen someday one way or another. Until then, I'm going to enjoy BW instead of seeing some stupid ball vs ball action which can be solved by magic box, not through micro.
I don't think you get the point of Boxer = BW till this announcement. He was one of the primary reasons why BW got so famous in South Korea. He was one of the primary reasons why many people started playing BW in Korea, if they haven't already. He's been invited to the Blue House by the president of South Korea due to his status in BW.
Yet we didn't see him play that much after 2006.... or did we?
Boxer keeps playing for ACE, wins major matches against players (Boxer vs Savior on Monty Hall anyone?), and then returns to SKT 2 years later. After that we don't see him play as much. However, we know that he's been active as ever. Why? Fantasy vs Flash. Who came up with the timed proxy 2 fact vulture build that completely destroyed KT during SKT vs KT, ace match? Not iloveoov, not fantasy, but Boxer did. When Boxer returned in 2009, their team started doing much, much better. Coincidence? I think not.
I don't care if he sucks ass in BW. I think most people can agree (the ones who know Boxer's era and his 'empire') that this is huge loss to BW. When it came down to play style few years ago, Boxer's plays were very innovative, creative, and mind-shocking to many viewers. When it came down to team's psychological welfare, Boxer was in the center. He was not the coach of SKT (nor even assistant coach), yet in practical terms, he was.
You don't know what he has done for BW, only heard stories about it. And you're trying to compare the BW fans to some idiots who's trying to keep the old tradition alive? Is this fucking fomos or something? BW fans have something to say about the situation, and so does the SC2 fans. You're one of those few 'special' people where you cross the border to start some stupid argument which leads to nowhere, maybe except putting more distance between BW fans and SC2 fans.
I'm a BW fan. Does it mean that I hate SC2? Hell no. There are things that I do not like from the game (compared to BW), which ties me to BW more than SC2, but that doesn't necessarily mean that SC2 sucks ass. You, on the other hand, cannot live on with BW existing with SC2. You want to kill a scene that has been huge in the past only because it's 'old' and 'outdated'. You are one of the sources of pain in e-Sports scene these days: BW fans arguing that SC2 sucks dick, and vice versa. You guys cannot have both games co-existing at the same time.
You're one of the few people in teamliquid who's turning teamliquid boards into fomos boards. And trust me. Fomos is a LOT more like 4chan.
And you're trying to argue this while spelling SKT wrong?
On October 10 2010 09:35 figq wrote: This whole post (OP) starts with the presumption that BW is all which is good, and SC2 isn't & probably can't be. So what if it can? What if SC2 can be eventually developed to truly improve the gameplay we love, and advance RTS? Would you blame the Emperor for his sense and desire to take part in this development? Maybe SC2 isn't the enemy, maybe it's the friend who needs our help.
If indeed SC2 is bound to replace BW eventually, then we better start seriously develop it asap, because this will take a long time and a lot of effort. In view of this, Boxer is probably doing the starcraft community the best service, contributing to establish a new meaningful esports scene.
Boxer moving on indeed makes it sad, and same goes to most BW fans at this time.
Yet, it also means that we will see his innovative style of playing in SC2, and bring innovations to the builds and tricks.
Although I didn't want to see him move on, Boxer did the right thing. He's willing to contribute more to the fans so that we can enjoy more matches, while competing on the highest level at the same time.
This is such a great post.
It's true, this may be a symbol to some that BW is handing the torch over to SC2, but I do dearly hope that the spark that made BW get on fire burn just as bright as before. Progamers will come, Progamers will go, and its true that Boxer is more than just a Progamer, or even a bonjwa. To many people, he IS E-Sports. I know when I first found out about Boxer was through "Pimpest Plays" on sc legacy, and just staring in awe at the things he would do. But I truly hope with all my heart that this does not mean the end for Broodwar. I came to teamliquid, and I came to the BW proleague because of Starcraft 2. Yet I love them both. I love watching BW and watching and playing Starcraft 2. I admire BW as a much more complex game(as of now, at least) and one that is spectacular to watch. I admire BW for its history, the game itself, the intricate balance that has stayed strong for so many years.
But the true test of BW will be whether it can live on. It's already years past what Blizzard intended it to be played for, yet until now new things are constantly being found. Will it stagnate? Will all progamers begin to move over? I for one do not blame Boxer. While he does help with new strats, I feel for him feeling somewhat useless and as he says "dissapointing his fans." I hope he can become confident and just as much as a force in SC2 as he was in BW.
Only bothering to respond to the parts of the post that aren't ad hominem or some other logical fallacy. Hope you don't mind.
On October 10 2010 09:53 supernovamaniac wrote: I don't think you get the point of Boxer = BW till this announcement. He was one of the primary reasons why BW got so famous in South Korea. He was one of the primary reasons why many people started playing BW in Korea,
Boxer's a big name in BW, we all get that. Back when BW was relevant, it used to be great fun watching him dominate. But nowadays, he's just a once great player who lacks the mechanical skill to get past BW's admittedly horrible interface.
He isn't innovating anything in BW. The whole reason he's famous was his innovation, unique plays, complete dominance over the scene. All those things are gone, modern BW is watching Flash/JD's inhuman apm execute shit perfectly. Fun to watch a few times, nothing worth following long term.
On October 10 2010 10:25 Offhand wrote: Only bothering to respond to the parts of the post that aren't ad hominem or some other logical fallacy. Hope you don't mind.
Better than trying to point out the obvious yet again... wait a moment...
On October 10 2010 09:53 supernovamaniac wrote: I don't think you get the point of Boxer = BW till this announcement. He was one of the primary reasons why BW got so famous in South Korea. He was one of the primary reasons why many people started playing BW in Korea,
Boxer's a big name in BW, we all get that. Back when BW was relevant, it used to be great fun watching him dominate. But nowadays, he's just a once great player who lacks the mechanical skill to get past BW's admittedly horrible interface.
He isn't innovating anything in BW. The whole reason he's famous was his innovation, unique plays, complete dominance over the scene. All those things are gone, modern BW is watching Flash/JD's inhuman apm execute shit perfectly. Fun to watch a few times, nothing worth following long term.
I can't stop laughing at this post for 2 reasons:
1. You still have your facts wrong when I clearly stated out Fantasy vs Flash on Match Point (if you even know who they are, or what the map is... or what 2 fact vulture vs 14cc means)
2. You still try to 'kill' BW in this post
Maybe if you have read my previous post, you could've stopped making fool out of yourself and prevented 1 from happening. But no, you had to go for double or nothing.
If you want to argue more, take it to PM. I don't need more people turning teamliquid into english version of fomos.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
Can't believe this guy hasn't gotten warned or banned.
There's no reason moderators would react to that kind of post. What's offensive about it? Mods here don't warn or ban just for candid expression of opinion (provided it's in the proper venue).
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
Can't believe this guy hasn't gotten warned or banned.
There's no reason moderators would react to that kind of post. What's offensive about it? Mods here don't warn or ban just for candid expression of opinion (provided it's in the proper venue).
well it is blatantly inflammatory. i thought people got warned for that? not really sure on this criteria.
On October 10 2010 10:25 Offhand wrote: Only bothering to respond to the parts of the post that aren't ad hominem or some other logical fallacy. Hope you don't mind.
On October 10 2010 09:53 supernovamaniac wrote: I don't think you get the point of Boxer = BW till this announcement. He was one of the primary reasons why BW got so famous in South Korea. He was one of the primary reasons why many people started playing BW in Korea,
Boxer's a big name in BW, we all get that. Back when BW was relevant, it used to be great fun watching him dominate. But nowadays, he's just a once great player who lacks the mechanical skill to get past BW's admittedly horrible interface.
He isn't innovating anything in BW. The whole reason he's famous was his innovation, unique plays, complete dominance over the scene. All those things are gone, modern BW is watching Flash/JD's inhuman apm execute shit perfectly. Fun to watch a few times, nothing worth following long term.
I can't stop laughing at this post for 2 reasons:
1. You still have your facts wrong when I clearly stated out Fantasy vs Flash on Match Point (if you even know who they are, or what the map is... or what 2 fact vulture vs 14cc means)
2. You still try to 'kill' BW in this post
Maybe if you have read my previous post, you could've stopped making fool out of yourself and prevented 1 from happening. But no, you had to go for double or nothing.
If you want to argue more, take it to PM. I don't need more people turning teamliquid into english version of fomos.
I see no use in arguing with a wall.
Someone, anyone, tell me why Boxer remaining in the BW scene is going to do anything.
On October 10 2010 04:41 Wr3k wrote: Imo BW just needs to roll over and die anyways. It will never have the following it once did with SC2 out. If you are someone who is new to the esports scene you aren't going to be drooling over SCBW when there are things like IEM and GSL to watch. Let it die. It's good for SC2 that he is switching.
Can't believe this guy hasn't gotten warned or banned.
There's no reason moderators would react to that kind of post. What's offensive about it? Mods here don't warn or ban just for candid expression of opinion (provided it's in the proper venue).
well it is blatantly inflammatory. i thought people got warned for that? not really sure on this criteria.
You are allowed to state your opinion, it may be offensive to some people however it's ok as long it's not directed at a person or group. Thus racism and any form discrimination are not accepted as they are directed at a group (or person) but saying stuff like religion is stupid, BW needs to die, homosexual marriage should not be legalised or eating meat is wrong are accepted. To simplify opinion (even opinion of the minority or ignorance is accepted) as long as it is not insulting others directly.
It's wierd there are people want to see Boxer 'not play' any games. I am disappoint. It just sounds like, I love BW and don't want it to die so I want Boxer to suffer. I want him not to play SC and just sit in BW matches. I am disappoint.
On October 10 2010 10:25 Offhand wrote: Only bothering to respond to the parts of the post that aren't ad hominem or some other logical fallacy. Hope you don't mind.
On October 10 2010 09:53 supernovamaniac wrote: I don't think you get the point of Boxer = BW till this announcement. He was one of the primary reasons why BW got so famous in South Korea. He was one of the primary reasons why many people started playing BW in Korea,
Boxer's a big name in BW, we all get that. Back when BW was relevant, it used to be great fun watching him dominate. But nowadays, he's just a once great player who lacks the mechanical skill to get past BW's admittedly horrible interface.
He isn't innovating anything in BW. The whole reason he's famous was his innovation, unique plays, complete dominance over the scene. All those things are gone, modern BW is watching Flash/JD's inhuman apm execute shit perfectly. Fun to watch a few times, nothing worth following long term.
I can't stop laughing at this post for 2 reasons:
1. You still have your facts wrong when I clearly stated out Fantasy vs Flash on Match Point (if you even know who they are, or what the map is... or what 2 fact vulture vs 14cc means)
2. You still try to 'kill' BW in this post
Maybe if you have read my previous post, you could've stopped making fool out of yourself and prevented 1 from happening. But no, you had to go for double or nothing.
If you want to argue more, take it to PM. I don't need more people turning teamliquid into english version of fomos.
I see no use in arguing with a wall.
Someone, anyone, tell me why Boxer remaining in the BW scene is going to do anything.
First, you might want to disprove his claim of BoxeR innovating SKT-s T play. Even though he suggested to PM, and even though this thread might not have much to do with this, I'd like to hear your opinion on BoxeR's role in SKT if only for you to prove that you have anything to say that is based on the current state of events.
Is it bad for BW? Sure. I can understand being disappointed that BW just took a hit. But I don't understand being disappointed in Boxer, or thinking Boxer was "irresponsible", or anything like that in switching.
Boxer is a person too. I think he knows what might happen if he switches but he sees this as a new future. Plus I don't think he's goign to make himself suffer if he wants to play sc2.
if there was anything, i don't think its a bad choice for him. there's just no way he's ever going to be able to compete in professional bw today because of the level of skill and moving to sc2 will probably give him more room to explore his creativity. for all you know, he may pioneer professional sc2.
disciple: I agree completely. Though it's nice that we might see Boxer on TV raping noobs, the fact still stands that... without Boxer, what will Brood War as an E-Sport become? It's already "dying." But Boxer is the symbol, the epitome, if you will, of BW.
Well one thing's almost certain--there will be very very few new draftees (even fewer than the huge drop this past season.) So even if Gretech/Kespa negotiations pan out, the BW scene doesn't have long to live anymore
Whats up with all the hating? Boxer is no more in BW, even if he continued he wouldnt play on TV and would certainly not win even if he did show up on TV. Im a big fan of Boxer but there is a new generation of BW players now. So Boxers transition to SC2 will allow fans like me to see him again, Im superhappy about that
So according to you, Boxer should sit on a bench rather than go to SC2 and beat the shit out of noob foreigner players? Wow that strikes me as kind of selfish of you.
I think it's a bit disgraceful of Boxer to move on to BW's direct competitor at a time when the fate of Proleague/OSL/MSL is so uncertain. I guess I expected him to care for BW enough to at least be somewhat concerned over its future, as well as the future of all the other progamers affected by the outcome of the negotiations between Kespa and Gretech.
On October 10 2010 21:38 Tadah wrote: I think it's a bit disgraceful of Boxer to move on to BW's direct competitor at a time when the fate of Proleague/OSL/MSL is so uncertain. I guess I expected him to care for BW enough to at least be somewhat concerned over its future, as well as the future of all the other progamers affected by the outcome of the negotiations between Kespa and Gretech.
He just sits on a bench! Its not like its Flash thats moving to SC2
while i sort of do understand you feelings disciple, we have to admit that boxer is done in bw. there's no way he'll achieve anything beyond, and it's a realistic fact that he has come to accept. sc2 is a field where he hopes to achieve his goal of being an active 30-year old progamer, not a sitting mascot (which i'm pretty sure someone of his caliber would hate to be). as his fans, we should be supporting his decisions no matter what, imo.
one thing i'm kinda sad about is that boxer didn't attempt to help resolve this IP rights issue, though it may also be because there's not much he can do about it when it comes to legal copyrights issue :<
I think it's selfish for you to think like that. You can't honestly expect him to play cheerleader from the bench when there's an entirely new opportunity screaming for his name.
I think the problem is we want BW to last forever, when realistically, it won't.
On October 10 2010 01:55 PaD wrote: A boxer fan wouldnt feel like that, your just angry because BW is going downhill. Blame Kespa not boxer, you should be glad to see more of him by playing sc2 !
Honestly? Watching SC2 is almost always boring, save for a few select individuals that I approve of. And none of them are on the pro scene. People who are streaming BW still are my heroes at this point.
But Boxer moving to SC2 could be seen as positive. If anything, Boxer's creative style might bring entertainment back into the games. At this very moment in time, SC2 gameplay is pretty uninteresting from the spectator's point of view. Maybe it's the graphics, and not the game itself, but it just looks sluggish and boring from the start.
Still though....after watching Boxer v. Idra, I still was pretty bored at the whole ordeal.
On October 11 2010 00:11 Klamity wrote: I think it's selfish for you to think like that. You can't honestly expect him to play cheerleader from the bench when there's an entirely new opportunity screaming for his name.
I think the problem is we want BW to last forever, when realistically, it won't.
He left BW cause he sucks at it, not because it won't last forever. Honestly, I am a little sad. I was also hoping he would serve as a figurehead of BroodWar forever and ever while remaining an ambassador of e-sports in general. There are plenty of athletes who remain in a sport long after their peak because it's comfortable and they remain popular.
And I also feel like he should remain committed to the sport he started to create in it's "time of peril." But he's just a human who decided where his best interests were. I hope he does well in SC2, and I hope his charisma helps propel it to new levels, even though + Show Spoiler +
I think the game blows hard compared to BW (so far)
.
The thing about this situation for all progamers, fans of BW, and new prospective gamers is that there is no precedent for this sort of thing. So it will at the least be interesting to see how it unfolds. I'll def. watch his games in GSL.
I feel like Boxer leaving BW will strip him from his legend icon. Sure, he'll be active, showing games to his fans but it just won't be the same. He's late to the party to get the innovator status that he once had, people have been doing all sorts of crazy plays since early beta. You know, Repairion, thor drops, etc.
If anything, Cool has that status, after his GSL win and Boxer will be just another player. If all he wants is airtime, that's OK I guess.Since GomTV has stated that they don't want team-based leagues, however, giving up his comfortable position in SKT1 is questionable at best. He's Boxer, but he's not guaranteed results in the GSL. I doubt sponsors would be willing to shell out quite the same salary he was getting as a BW pro, plus he's maybe closing the opportunity to continue his career as a coach.
I know that people will probably say that it's good to be taking risks, but perhaps this time the risk is too much. We'll have to wait to see what happens in the end.
Brood war has had its run, nothing will last forever. Now it's time for the much newer, and more exciting SC2 to shine.
The BW scene has gotten to the point where everything is figured out and you can pretty much figure out how a game or a battle will turn out by looking. It's quite predictable at this point. This and the lack of competition vs JD/Flash makes BW even more boring. RIP bw.
On October 11 2010 00:55 Nikon wrote: I feel like Boxer leaving BW will strip him from his legend icon. Sure, he'll be active, showing games to his fans but it just won't be the same. He's late to the party to get the innovator status that he once had, people have been doing all sorts of crazy plays since early beta. You know, Repairion, thor drops, etc.
If anything, Cool has that status, after his GSL win and Boxer will be just another player. If all he wants is airtime, that's OK I guess.Since GomTV has stated that they don't want team-based leagues, however, giving up his comfortable position in SKT1 is questionable at best. He's Boxer, but he's not guaranteed results in the GSL. I doubt sponsors would be willing to shell out quite the same salary he was getting as a BW pro, plus he's maybe closing the opportunity to continue his career as a coach.
I know that people will probably say that it's good to be taking risks, but perhaps this time the risk is too much. We'll have to wait to see what happens in the end.
On October 11 2010 00:56 vnlegend wrote: Brood war has had its run, nothing will last forever. Now it's time for the much newer, and more exciting SC2 to shine.
The BW scene has gotten to the point where everything is figured out and you can pretty much figure out how a game or a battle will turn out by looking. It's quite predictable at this point. This and the lack of competition vs JD/Flash makes BW even more boring. RIP bw.
I think it's pretty predictable for SC2 too....
I don't think that anyone will argue that SC1 is going to be left dangling with something missing. Obviously the game's evolved to a level that Blizzard didn't even dream was possible.
The only thing that's keeping me from really caring about SC2 is primarily because it's such a boring thing to watch. With spectators, commentators, and tournaments, I feel like the game itself is just really sluggish and roundish which makes it uninteresting to watch, even if you get commentators trying to fire everybody up.
I honestly feel like the best way to view Starcraft 1 OR 2 is just watching streams of people playing it independently with their own style, music, and commentary on the game. Regardless of which one is better at being an actual spectator sport (*cough* BW *cough*), I feel watching personal streams have always been more fun.
On October 11 2010 00:56 vnlegend wrote: Brood war has had its run, nothing will last forever. Now it's time for the much newer, and more exciting SC2 to shine.
The BW scene has gotten to the point where everything is figured out and you can pretty much figure out how a game or a battle will turn out by looking. It's quite predictable at this point. This and the lack of competition vs JD/Flash makes BW even more boring. RIP bw.
I am surprised that you would not at least embrace Boxer's decision to switch to SC2. It was purely his own intention, to be able to play for his fans again. And while it does make me sad that he is leaving BW, I am very happy at the same time for him; I want to see him play again on TV. Seeing him warm the T1 bench as just a mascot was... sympathetic.
The same also goes for Nada and July, and possibly iloveoov. It would be mean to say that Boxer is killing off BW with his career move; BW still has its core players in Flash and Jaedong, and Stork and others. It is just that Kespa is being too much of an idiot in its negotations, and Blizzard is being too... I don't know how to say it. We as fans would suffer for it.
I am sure Boxer feels the same way about BW. BW has left a legacy for us, you know, and sometimes all good things would have to end (but hopefully not for BW!) As much as I really hate to say this, if the proleague (and starleagues) do not start at all, it may be time to move on.
PS: It would be a nice thing to watch that OSL/MSL finals history video; last time, I thought it was just a celebration of the starleagues' anniversary, but it may be the legacy recap that it actually was, something that we can look back to in history in the distant future. BW was, and always will be, the pinnacle of e-sports, for a long time to come.