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Hi TL,
I wanted to share an unfortunate tale of not fitting in.
Yesterday, I decided that I'd had enough of only leaving the apartment to get takeout food or go to work (I have a part time job now), so I contacted a college friend, "Jill," to see if she wanted to hang out. She said I could come over for dinner and that her roommate and a couple other friends would be there, and it sounded like a nice evening and a chance to meet new people, so I accepted enthusiastically. I was so desperate for IRL (i.e. non-bnet and non-vent) social contact that I ignored the little voice in the back of my head warning me about the painful awkwardness to come.
I have never gotten along very well with girls my age. I had very few female friends in high school, choosing mostly to hang out with a coterie of nerdy guys two years older than I who regularly played Settlers of Catan. In college, I started wearing well-fitting and attractive clothing and considered the virtues of makeup. I was part of a group of 4 girls and we called ourselves best friends and roomed together sophomore and junior year, but then they backstabbed me at the last second for senior year housing and I had to convince my guy friends to let me room with them, which took some administrative wrangling. Senior year was far better than any other year in college.
In spite of my terrible prior experiences, I sometimes get the misplaced urge to participate in a "girls' night" with girls who are more normal - i.e. who actually prefer the company of females. Maybe it's some kind of instinctive attempt at social equilibrium after I've been to a bunch of StarCraft tournaments in a row. Maybe it's my mom telling me way back when that you always have to have girlfriends to depend upon. Whatever the reason, it happens, and it was going to happen at Jill's apartment that night.
I guess the first sign of impending doom was the food. I thought we were all going to go to a restaurant or something, but I walked in the apartment and saw a tall brunette, "Emily" (Jill's roommate), bustling around the kitchen and carving up various vegetables. "Sorry! The food probably won't be ready for an hour and a half or so ... here's some crackers," she said. I nibbled on rosemary and olive oil Triscuit with hummus while I studied the recipe for the main course: orzo tossed with grilled shrimp, pesto, vegetables, and mozzarella cheese. Served room temperature. Not exactly what I'd been thinking.
The other two girls came in bearing a bottle of white wine and a slab of organic herb-infused bread. One of them asked me what I did. "I work for a game developer which makes language learning games for iPhone." She asked me if I was a gamer myself. "Yes, although I play more hardcore games. Mostly StarCraft - do you know it?"
She looked away. "I've heard the name. My little brother is really into all these kinds of computer games."
As I ate my orzo (pretty tasty, actually) and looked around the wooden table at these four girls, all 23-25 years old, all college educated, intelligent, with good jobs, all slender and attractive, I realized something: I really didn't want to talk anymore about hypothetical situations where one's parents met one's boyfriends' parents.
I told them instead about a funny pact between myself and my best male friend from college, "Lee." "Lee and I promised each other that if we were both 40 and single (widowed, divorced, etc.), we'd marry each other." I wanted to explain that it was because we had a great deal of mutual respect and trust and got along well as suitemates in senior year of college, and by the time you're 40 that's probably all you're looking for in a partner.
"But what if you got married? Then wouldn't Lee be sad??" Emily exclaimed.
"Well, no, I mean, 40 is a long way-"
One of the other girls' eyes nearly bugged out of her head. "Omigosh are you engaged?!"
"No."
"Oh sorry I thought because Emily said-"
Emily: "Oh no that was just me wondering-"
Sure I'd want to talk about my boyfriend, but I don't want to talk about him just in terms of getting married and meeting his parents - I want to talk about how brilliant he is, the interesting things he works on, and how he's building a LAN party-optimized house from the ground up. But the inexorable rapids of conversation moved on, to other things.
Like placentas.
Somehow a semi-promising sub-conversation about genetic research brought up placentas. Childbirth. Midwives. Hospital vs. home birth. I slouched slightly in my chair and had an alert, pleasant look on my face while inside I was transported back to junior year of college when my so-called "best friends" sat around discussing styles of engagement rings and MTV's Bridezilla while I stood there, silent, so nearby but so far away.
I wanted to talk about how I just got promoted to Silver league after a month of practice and what that means. I wanted to discuss Facebook vs. Google and how it's so much more interesting now than Apple vs. Google, and why that is. I wanted to tell them about my dreams of changing the way people think about video games. I wanted to release a baneling into the discursive plane and have its guts dissolve all chatter about babies and marriage and midwives into a hissing, neon green vapor.
They started talking about The Red Tent by Anita Diamant and the way society treats menstruation.
There are so many other more interesting things to discuss about that book.
I stood up, thanked Jill and Emily for the lovely dinner and the other girls for their company, shrugged on my EA hoodie, and left.
On the drive home, I used my phone's crappy speakerphone function (I didn't have a headset) to call Jill's boyfriend, "Adam," a very good friend of mine who was more or less a suitemate during senior year of college, and who is the reason I am friends with Jill. He was tired and not feeling so great, and I could barely hear him, but we still had a wonderful 15 minute conversation that felt better than the 3 hours at Jill's.
"Adam, sometimes I think 'wouldn't it be nice to get together with some girls and talk about girly things,' but then I realize that girly things are actually really boring to talk about."
"You are wise beyond your years, Peanut."
We talked about StarCraft, and Facebook vs. Google, and I told him I'd just gotten promoted to Silver league, and he was very happy for me. As I hung up the phone, I felt like I belonged.
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Quite the fetching read. The Baneling part in particular was pretty amusing. =P
5/5
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This remineds me of a few discussion areas not to breach with girls.
I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it.
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So that's what hot girls talk about... lol
Was a good read.
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On November 19 2010 11:34 LSB wrote:I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it. Hmm, I don't recall ever talking of cramps really... So what's the problem exactly?
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On November 19 2010 11:38 JohannesH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 11:34 LSB wrote:I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it. Hmm, I don't recall ever talking of cramps really... So what's the problem exactly? There's me, innocent LSB talking about how I got cramps all throught swim season, enduring my calf screamming at me because I've never learned to 'stretch it out'
And then the girl I'm talking to says, "seriously, you're talking about cramps?"
It took me a while, but I got it.
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Having done my undergrad in engineering, I know quite a few girls like you, and they all prefer to hang out with guys than girls.
I don't think there is anything wrong with that mentality.
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On November 19 2010 11:34 LSB wrote: This remineds me of a few discussion areas not to breach with girls.
I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it. I think that only applies to high school girls who are still mad at God for giving them periods. Most girls get past that phase :O
OP, I think there's different kinds of girls, and the kind you met that night are the vapid kind. I don't want to say "people like us" because I don't know you, but I'd say that there are personality types which just don't jive with the people who like to go to parties and don't know how to talk about anything else. But it's that way for both genders. You're not talking to party guys who only know about weed and saying dduuuuude. You're talking about nerdy guys. There's nerdy girls too. Not "gamer girls" because that's usually populated by twits who just want attention, but just regular girls with interests that go beyond the social sphere. So seek them out if you really care But try not to get discouraged because the most noticeable girls are the most difficult to get along with.
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Very interesting read. I think it would be worth it to become friends with those girls, even if you don't find the discussion interesting.
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I love to go partying and all with rez mates on the weekend and stuff, but seriously talking about Starcraft with my CSL team for two hours is probably the most fun I've had in the past month. It's great to just chill with people who have similar interests.
I guess it kinda sucks for you, as it's kinda hard to get connected with people of similar interests after college/university. Anyways, <3
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you're every guys ideal girlfriend
be happy
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You can't really blame them or yourself. You obviously grew up and live a very different lifestyle than most girls. Good read still.
But I will say ... having no social life? Because you spend most of your time at home dealing with computers, gaming? Its easier than you think - call up the guys instead of the girls.
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LOL wtf i don't think i've ever just sat around with friends and talked about our periods...
Anyway I totally understand what you mean about not fitting in with other girls. A lot of nerdy girls are like that. Talking with other female nerds/gamers you'll hear a lot of similar backgrounds just like you described.
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You can always talk about the things you want on here. I always love reading your posts. TL has your back.
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I don't even think its a gender thing necessarily. I can tell you straight up that talking on vent with guys from starcraft, or meeting up on weekends to get korean bbq with the TL folks is just some of the best times I have since its really the only time people can talk about what we're all passionate about, which is starcraft.
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Please convert more girls to be like you because guys feel the same way and it's totally the way to be *internet fist pound*
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Braavos36362 Posts
On November 19 2010 11:50 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 11:34 LSB wrote: This remineds me of a few discussion areas not to breach with girls.
I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it. I think that only applies to high school girls who are still mad at God for giving them periods. Most girls get past that phase :O OP, I think there's different kinds of girls, and the kind you met that night are the vapid kind. I don't want to say "people like us" because I don't know you, but I'd say that there are personality types which just don't jive with the people who like to go to parties and don't know how to talk about anything else. But it's that way for both genders. You're not talking to party guys who only know about weed and saying dduuuuude. You're talking about nerdy guys. There's nerdy girls too. Not "gamer girls" because that's usually populated by twits who just want attention, but just regular girls with interests that go beyond the social sphere. So seek them out if you really care But try not to get discouraged because the most noticeable girls are the most difficult to get along with. I disagree completely. Peanut described these girls as well educated with good jobs. "Vapid" girls don't discuss books. They don't organize the kinds of meal these girls did. This was just a case if mismatched interests. I don't think it's fair to put down people and call them "vapid" just because they talk about things you aren't interested in. I doubt these are the girls that "just go to parties and don't know how to talk about anything else," I highly doubt party girls are sipping wine eating orzo and talking about literature they just read.
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Ah I get this all the time... mostly because one of my close friends is that kind of person, who'd rather be talking about celebrities and that. I'm so awful about fitting in that I usually avoid those social situations altogether. I don't recommend that though... it's made me somewhat of a hermit...
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ROFL, for the longest time, I thought the OP was a guy. Even when she talked about the pact with Lee, I thought it was just a hilarious joke, then none of the girls laughed. Then I looked more closely....embarrassing The title also tricked me.
I'm in nursing and girls in general talk about the most boring shit, omg, gossip girl, clothes, the vagina monologues **, guys they hook up with (some sluts up in here, and I'm afraid of their diseases). And holy shit, they say "like" so much, and it's rubbing off on my, so I've been consciously trying to fix it.
** their class gave a couple percent for going to see it (everything is feminist sexist in my program, so I actively fight for men's rights! We don't even get lockers in our damn placements, ridiculous!!)
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You're probably right. I do question the idea that vapid girls don't discuss books though. I have the displeasure of hearing people say what they think in English courses, and it usually not very deep. Peanut did say they couldn't get past the menstrual aspect of The Red Tent, which suggests they only saw the very superficial aspects of it.
Most nerdy girls are very complimenting of people who don't deserve compliments... So I don't take calling them 'intelligent' too seriously. And I kind of associated getting drunk off wine with the girls to be an activity popular with vapid girls But I'm making a lot of assumptions.
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I guess it's been my good fortune to have a few friends (and sisters) my own gender who I can at least get excited over games with. I used to play BW, WC3, Ragnarok Online, and DOTA (very informally) with them through HS and college- none of them play games actively now but one of them is joining me in the anticipation for Diablo 3. Some of the non-gamers play casual games like Plants Vs. Zombies, Diner Dash, and Farm Frenzy so it's not all that bad either.
I think I'd be awkward if I went to that party too, lol. Conversation with my non-gaming girl friends has briefly touched upon marriage (consensus: not anywhere in the near future) and the like, but I don't think I've ever discussed menstruation at length with them either. I'm fine with celebrities, make-up, TV shows, and clothes popping up in conservations, but they're certainly not the focus of what me and my friends usually talk/laugh about. And I wouldn't classify talking about placentas as girly, just weird.
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Well-written, Peanut . I think I know a little bit of what you mean of not belonging when it comes to girly conversations, but I watch enough Gossip Girl and Glee and dance/listen to enough KPop to put up a convincing pretense.
A really rewarding experience, in these cases, is converting girls into SC enthusiasts (or at least, people who understand SC a little better than "my brother plays games"), one by one. The girls that I know know that I love SC, and although they always say, "I'm terribly at computer games," they at least understand it as something mysteriously awesome instead of just mysterious.
On November 19 2010 13:22 ellerina wrote: I guess it's been my good fortune to have a few friends (and sisters) my own gender who I can at least get excited over games with. I used to play BW, WC3, Ragnarok Online, and DOTA (very informally) with them through HS and college.
...who are you? I've played BW, Ragnarok Online, DotA (very briefly), and now SC2. This is too similar to be trueee D: I have not played Diablo, though.
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damn i thouhg tyou were a guy until someone in the thread pointed out that you were a girl when you mentioned bf, i thought you were gay or something
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I read right up till the very end until he called you Peanut, then I realized you were a girl.
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Hyrule18792 Posts
Don't worry, Peanut. There's other cool girls like you out there. It'll just take time to find them. Once you do find them, you can band them all together and lead them on a crusade to buy all the Triscuits and hummus in the country. Then all the girls you don't like hanging out with will starve to death before the main course is served.
Peanut: 1, everyone else: dead
gg. You win being female.
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I'm a guy, and for someone's whose primary interests are esports, computers/internet, politics, and business, the only people who I enjoy the company of are other nerdy guys. but meeting women (which is something I want to do) requires boring conversation and patience. your experience is very much what it feels like for me to talk to women. it's sad how that's the way of life.
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On November 19 2010 12:57 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 11:50 Chef wrote:On November 19 2010 11:34 LSB wrote: This remineds me of a few discussion areas not to breach with girls.
I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it. I think that only applies to high school girls who are still mad at God for giving them periods. Most girls get past that phase :O OP, I think there's different kinds of girls, and the kind you met that night are the vapid kind. I don't want to say "people like us" because I don't know you, but I'd say that there are personality types which just don't jive with the people who like to go to parties and don't know how to talk about anything else. But it's that way for both genders. You're not talking to party guys who only know about weed and saying dduuuuude. You're talking about nerdy guys. There's nerdy girls too. Not "gamer girls" because that's usually populated by twits who just want attention, but just regular girls with interests that go beyond the social sphere. So seek them out if you really care But try not to get discouraged because the most noticeable girls are the most difficult to get along with. I disagree completely. Peanut described these girls as well educated with good jobs. "Vapid" girls don't discuss books. They don't organize the kinds of meal these girls did. This was just a case if mismatched interests. I don't think it's fair to put down people and call them "vapid" just because they talk about things you aren't interested in. I doubt these are the girls that "just go to parties and don't know how to talk about anything else," I highly doubt party girls are sipping wine eating orzo and talking about literature they just read.
I agree with HotBid. I would not call these girls vapid - they really were intelligent people who had gone to very good colleges and now have very good jobs. I wouldn't want them to starve, either!
I am very appreciative of everyone who's said they like this post - it was for your enjoyment. I also appreciate all those who have offered words of advice and support - thank you.
However, I didn't write this to imply that I feel deficient in any deep rooted or general way, or to excite pity, or to make anybody tell me how good of a girlfriend I am/would be. It's really just a window into an interesting part of my life and my social tendencies.
I know there are other girls like me out there - I've had the good fortune of meeting a bunch of them, although there are certainly not as many as I'd like. There are other stories where I hang out with these kinds of girls and we have lots of fun, like the time three non-girly girls and I went to a couple strip clubs and a karaoke bar for my birthday and they made me get a lap dance (from a girl) and it was really fun (although honestly I think I would've been kinda freaked out if I hadn't been drunk). But that's a tale for another time.
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On November 19 2010 13:07 Chef wrote:You're probably right. I do question the idea that vapid girls don't discuss books though. I have the displeasure of hearing people say what they think in English courses, and it usually not very deep. Peanut did say they couldn't get past the menstrual aspect of The Red Tent, which suggests they only saw the very superficial aspects of it. Most nerdy girls are very complimenting of people who don't deserve compliments... So I don't take calling them 'intelligent' too seriously. And I kind of associated getting drunk off wine with the girls to be an activity popular with vapid girls But I'm making a lot of assumptions. Well it's not like SC2 league ranks or Google/Facebook discussions mean you're any smart either. Just different interests.
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Wow, what a brag blog in disguise.
Congrats on getting silver!
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On November 19 2010 13:34 hazelynut wrote: ...who are you? I've played BW, Ragnarok Online, DotA (very briefly), and now SC2. This is too similar to be trueee D: I have not played Diablo, though.
Your alter-ego from the Philippines? XD It flashed through my mind that maybe one of my friends moved to the US, but I'm pretty sure all my ex-gaming friends are still in the Philippines, lol.
I used to watch Gossip Girl (first 2 seasons, couldn't get through the third) and I like Kpop well enough too One of my friends is a diehard Shinhwa fan and another is a not-so-diehard fan of DBSK. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convert any of my friends or convince them to play non-casual games again, but at least they know that I like to play games and they're fine with it.
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haha awesome blog, grats on silver and i have no idea how that food looks or taste like but it sounds good lol
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One of my close friends is a girl like you. Keep doing what you're doing.
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post a pic of yourself.
User was warned for this post
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United States4796 Posts
This is an adorably awesome read. 5/5
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Thanks for sharing that with us! You're really lucky you have guy friends who you can talk about interesting things with ^_^ Wow I try my hardest to avoid any interaction with those types of girls! They're so scary, and make me feel like a total loser, when obviously I'm totally awesome. Hah! But seriously, they do scare me >.>'
edit: i can speel gud
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United States4796 Posts
On November 19 2010 15:09 vinn wrote: Thanks for sharing that with us! You're really lucky you have guy friends who you can talk about interesting things with ^_^ Wow I try my hardest to avoid any interaction with those types of girls! They're so scary, and make me feel like a total looser, when obviously I'm totally awesome. Hah! But seriously, they do scare me >.>'
Do you mean to tell me that a girl currently occupies the greatest voted blog spot on Team Liquid?
That's really cool. :D
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It's a complicated issue. I mean my first instinct is to say- so what? I can't talk about starcraft or video games with most guys either. At least not for long, before they dismiss me as a hopeless nerd. And I usually get stuck talking about football or cars or complaining about their jobs or some other topic that I have no interest in either. Probably doesn't help that, if you're the kind of person that really enjoys video games, you're probably not the most outgoing/talkative person anyway.
On the other hand I do know that it's worse for girls, since they have so much pressure to worry about babies and boyfriends. At least guys get more freedom to pursue our own hobbies and interests, and speak our minds more freely.
I've actually heard a lot of girls say things like "I don't get along well with other girls- I much prefer hanging out with guys". I've never heard any guy say something like that, except maybe for some gay men. I think maybe that attitude is an attempt for the woman to get more freedom for herself by breaking out of stereotyped female roles, and help her fit in as "one of the guys" instead of just being somebody's girlfriend.
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On November 19 2010 13:47 caelym wrote: I'm a guy, and for someone's whose primary interests are esports, computers/internet, politics, and business, the only people who I enjoy the company of are other nerdy guys. but meeting women (which is something I want to do) requires boring conversation and patience. your experience is very much what it feels like for me to talk to women. it's sad how that's the way of life.
I actually really enjoy conversations with women. Even about things that may not be nerdy! It might have to do with being attracted to women, but I find women to be a refreshing change of pace from men.
Annnd yeah, I love ESPORTS (always, always in caps), computers, internet, and everything else.
Sometimes it's kinda hard to find common ground though, but I think just about anyone (gender disregarded!) has at least some common ground with anyone else. Just maybe not in this situation.
About the OP though, sad to hear about the awkward social situation. Those are just painful. @_@
Long and boring, the worst.
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Peanut is pretty much the typical TL.net member's dream girl.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
3 of us talking, i just met guy
guy talking to my roommate: yeah man i dont understand how u play that starcraft game so much like doesn't it dull your mind? like i'd rather have a life to be honest
(i stay silent on this subject cuz whats the point)
roommate: yeah i'm trying to cut down
few mins later same guy: so dan where r u from?
me: ohio but i've been living in korea for a few years
guy: oh really? doing what?
me as if i oblivious to what he just said, happily: oh i was a professional starcraft player
guy: .....oh....wow
i win
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EA Hoodie!?!!?!?! I hope to god you don't mean the devilish organization that spawned Command and Conquer Generals.
In all seriousness, while I hate being stuck in a situation of mismatched interests as hotbid describes, I don't think that simply leaving like that is the best way to fight ignorance. You seem to be just as closed off from what your girl friends discuss as they are from your interests. Granted, you are the minority in this case, but if neither "side" pays attention to the other, nothing will ever change.
Bah, writing something like that makes me a hypocrite.
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On November 19 2010 16:10 Rekrul wrote: 3 of us talking, i just met guy
guy talking to my roommate: yeah man i dont understand how u play that starcraft game so much like doesn't it dull your mind? like i'd rather have a life to be honest
roommate: yeah i'm trying to cut down
few mins later same guy: so dan where r u from?
me: ohio but i've been living in korea for a few years
guy: oh really? doing what?
me as if i oblivious to what he just said, happily: oh i was a professional starcraft player
guy: .....oh....wow
i win
If only I could do that.
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On November 19 2010 15:36 Luddite wrote:I've actually heard a lot of girls say things like "I don't get along well with other girls- I much prefer hanging out with guys". I've never heard any guy say something like that, except maybe for some gay men. I think maybe that attitude is an attempt for the woman to get more freedom for herself by breaking out of stereotyped female roles, and help her fit in as "one of the guys" instead of just being somebody's girlfriend. Maybe men who feel so just rather talk about it to women?
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funny read peanut 5/5
On November 19 2010 16:10 Rekrul wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 3 of us talking, i just met guy
guy talking to my roommate: yeah man i dont understand how u play that starcraft game so much like doesn't it dull your mind? like i'd rather have a life to be honest
(i stay silent on this subject cuz whats the point)
roommate: yeah i'm trying to cut down
few mins later same guy: so dan where r u from?
me: ohio but i've been living in korea for a few years
guy: oh really? doing what?
me as if i oblivious to what he just said, happily: oh i was a professional starcraft player
guy: .....oh....wow
i win
I can only imagine how good that must have felt :D
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I actually feel this way on my off time.
The few times I've actually ventured into "normal" hangout times (which essentially can be boiled down into drinking at someone's place), I cannot get into the conversation. I recently attempted to start to socialize more to break the mold of being the hermit in my apartment that only leaves to go to work or eat. It ended with my lack of motivation to engage in conversation for the following reasons.
I don't watch sports. I'm a virgin. I don't drink. I don't smoke.
The only common topic I can even share with everyone else essentially is complaining about our job. We do that enough at work, it gets tiresome after a while. I guess being the quiet guy will just have to suit me for a while longer.
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wow peanut. LETS BE FRIENDS!!! should come hang with us for food/gsl/day9/sc2 talks if you're in LA (which i am assuming you are in and not because i am stalking you).
i literally have one female friend that i hang out with and we tried to get her into sc2. bought the game for her birthday but she doesnt have a good computer to play on
i talk to other girls about class/school/group projects but i dont feel a sense of closeness or have enough things in common to continue to communicate once the class is over. in the end, i kind of gave up on the thought of trying to fit in with the girls in class and just read a novel while on break. i wish they would keep it down cause im trying to read!
just hearing some of them talk kind of angers me too -_-
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I feel ya, girly.
I have all guy friends, outside of work, and I can talk lovely nerdiness with them, but even they don't get SC2 - they mostly play console games, or just play LoL and DOTA-ish games.
Luckily, funnily enough, my girl friends from work, even though they're not into SC2, I can sit and explain to them how SC2 works and if I went up my league or how I'm in the process of playing silvers to get promoted, and they listen very attentively and ask questions and are genuinely excited for me. Also luckily, they're not girls who talk about cramps or placentas. Even when we drink. So that's a plus.
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I'm 24, and though the circumstances and the people are different, the awkwardness and feeling of rather-be-doing-something-else were the same. All the time. And then one day it hit me. When I put myself into those situations, I'm being quite untrue to myself.
Why? Because I am who I am. I'm nerdy as hell. I don't like talking to people about whatever ridiculous nonsense they bring upon themselves by failing to communicate honestly with the people they supposedly care about. I don't want to spend an evening without access to a computer. I don't want to force myself to act "normal." That's what I've done when I go into those social situations.
They always start with the thought of " really should stop spending all my time doing nerdyactivityx and hang out with some 'friends'" Yet each of those times I give in to that ridiculous reasoning I find myself bored, if not utterly disgusted by "normalness." And by the time things are over, I've reminded myself I'm quite un-normal, and I'll never be normal, but that's okay! Instead of torturing myself by doing things I hate, next time I'll just relax and remember that I don't need to be who I'm not.
Besides, I'm already married, who do I have to impress? And even if you're reading this and you're not, don't waste your time by trying to impress someone who would never be impressed with you being your self.
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"Are you a gamer?"
"Yes, but only HARECORE games, like Starcraft".
I quadruple facepalmed about seven times if your story was true.
Dude. Dude...
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On November 19 2010 22:48 SoManyDeadLings wrote: "Are you a gamer?"
"Yes, but only HARECORE games, like Starcraft".
I quadruple facepalmed about seven times if your story was true.
Dude. Dude...
I'm pretty sure this was in reference to the Iphone games that had been previously brought up in the conversation. Hooray for ignoring context.
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haha rekrul owns.
nice blog, peanut. as socially awkward it can be, I do think meeting people who have vastly different backgrounds and values can be really interesting and valuable.
also, congratz on reaching silver!
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well, wait a few years and it'll be
baby this, baby that diaper and stroller brands how I lost weight after giving birth ginormous cost of raising children best areas for elementary school my son/daughter is a genius ...you get the point
this is why I don't hang out with my wife and her friends any more --- the perils of being a nerd/geek/gamer --- good thing we have MMO and TL!
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On November 19 2010 23:42 zzaaxxsscd wrote:well, wait a few years and it'll be baby this, baby that diaper and stroller brands how I lost weight after giving birth ginormous cost of raising children best areas for elementary school my son/daughter is a genius ...you get the point this is why I don't hang out with my wife and her friends any more --- the perils of being a nerd/geek/gamer --- good thing we have MMO and TL!
Thank god my girlfriends friend's haven't all gotten married and spawned broodlings. One of her acquaintances got teen pregnant and all she does is talk about her kid x.x, the rest of of them thankfully are gonna be at least a few years. In 10 years though its going to be hell. I actually don't mind hanging out with "normal" girls right now though, I'm fine with being the bizarrely pervy guy who brings up placenta in a non medical setting but is non threatening because he has a girlfriend.
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On November 19 2010 18:49 OverlordFatty wrote:wow peanut. LETS BE FRIENDS!!! should come hang with us for food/gsl/day9/sc2 talks if you're in LA (which i am assuming you are in and not because i am stalking you). i literally have one female friend that i hang out with and we tried to get her into sc2. bought the game for her birthday but she doesnt have a good computer to play on i talk to other girls about class/school/group projects but i dont feel a sense of closeness or have enough things in common to continue to communicate once the class is over. in the end, i kind of gave up on the thought of trying to fit in with the girls in class and just read a novel while on break. i wish they would keep it down cause im trying to read! just hearing some of them talk kind of angers me too -_-
I would love to hang out with you! Unfortunately I'm not in LA - I'm in NorCal south of SF. But next time I'm in the area for an event or something (BlizzCon, WCG, whatever), we should get together!
Edit: Nobody wants to ask about the LAN party house? Awwww ...
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To quickly sum up your evening into something about food...
Don't go out for Chinese food when you really want Italian.
If being a girly girl isn't fun. Don't put yourself in the situation. To relate it to being a man, and also being nerdy. I have friends who are really manly men. Hunt, fish, work in welding shops. These aren't the guys I bring up Starcraft with. It is nice to get together with the to discuss manly things, or do manly things. Play sports. Barbecue. I used to hunt, I fish (and want to fish more), and enjoy getting out and not being a nerd sometimes. You need this to even yourself out. Same with women. My sister and I are very close. She's quite a girly girl and is also a tomboy when she needs to be. Being able to adapt and enjoy the company of others is never a bad thing. If you invited one of your girly girl friends over to a LAN party you'd want them to do their best to participate rather than sit there and be thinking about how she'd rather be doing anything else.
I think you could have took the opportunity to find some commonalities between the group of you. I'm not saying you need to be like them, but you need to engage them more to find out what you have in common. Pretty much everyone can find something they can relate on. That's the whole point of getting to know new people Food brings people together. My wife is anything but a nerd, but she likes to engage with me on things I enjoy...even if I don't understand it. She knows who Day9 is. She knows what the GSL is. I also know what Reiki is. It's my duty to try to enjoy the things she enjoys. I don't expect her to participate, nor does she expect me to, but we get along just find being different in some things and the exact same in others. Our fundamentals, the people we are, and what we appreciate about other people are what bring us together.
It's never a bad thing to bring yourself outside your comfort zone. Regardless how you look at it...you grew a little! Glad you enjoyed the hummus!
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When I first met you at MLG Peanut, I instantly liked you. That happens about once in every eight thousand girls I meet for reasons so stereotypically prevalent like the ones in your story. I knew as soon as you started talking about SC how passionate, nerdy, and awesome you were. That NEVER happens when I meet other girls, even where I work, and I was so happy to meet you and hang out with you that weekend.
The dinner you went to in this OP sounds so much like any sort of family outing or dinner with friends of work friends that I'm not really acquainted with. Not only do I feel completely out of place at these social gatherings, but I feel shy and like I can't ever be myself because I'll get made fun of or ridiculed. I completely agree that when you're with "normal women" (yes, you and I are not mutants aka we're normal, but you know what I mean) that it's very hard to open up and discuss things that I enjoy because they simply won't know how the fuck to react.
It's kind of funny, because I work in the E! and Style building in Los Angeles. Every single day I'm surrounded by tons of beautiful women that are all really smart in their field, dress nice, smell like flowers, all that crap. I tomboy it up 99% of the time and often wonder if I'm missing something by not being like those girls. Throughout all of college I lived with 7 guys, all complete nerds, and whenever I feel like I'm "less" of a person because I'm not one of the "E! girls" I just think about how much fun I had with those guys, nerds in general, and how much more fun it is to just be myself and be a nerd and talk about how awesome it is to get promoted leagues in SC2 because that shit is the best.
Don't ever change.
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A very well written discourse on the female condition! I enjoyed reading this especially because my girlfriend is not a gamer, but has always had difficulty bonding to other girls her own age. You two bear many similarities in your aversion to the "typical" female social engagements; I can't help but wonder if it's nature or nurture which has caused the divergence. What is awesome though is that you know what makes you happy and you aren't afraid to be true to yourself, that puts you in such a good position to enjoy life and achieve the independence every person deserves from social constraints/expectations (should they wish it). Good luck on gold league!
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congratz for:
1. getting into Silver
2. Having a boyfriend who is working on a LAN party house (one of the things I want to make in the future)
And about your history well you just need to find some girls that likes the things you like... I know is not esasy but you dont really need them, if you have a good time with boys but oh well...
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Good little blog.
I don't necessarily see it as a problem of not fitting in. You seem like you want to change into something known as the "girly-girl", but you're not willing to do any work for yourself. If it's something that you naturally don't feel fine it, it's just not your scene. There will be plenty other people that you can hang out with that share the same interests with you, even other females.
Personally, I commend you though, because you do something that not a lot of people do, and that's going out of your comfort area and trying new things out. You at least went out and tried to see how hanging out with these girls would be like, and the fact that you guys couldn't talk about shared interests just means that maybe you aren't meant to be friends. I hope people that are commenting on this blog saying that they also have hard times going out and finding new friends that they can relate to actually try. You'll be surprised how many people you wouldn't expect to actually share the same hobbies/beliefs as you. I used to be a homebody for my whole high school and even though I was known as loud and an "extrovert", I always felt out of my element talking people so I would try and do funny, stupid things for people to relate to me better.
Now that I am in college, though, I feel like I can actually talk to people about anything without feeling that sense of insecurity, because if all else fails with someone, especially a girl, you can say you tried and you will still get the same output as if you never tried before so nothing is hurt.
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On November 19 2010 11:34 LSB wrote: This remineds me of a few discussion areas not to breach with girls.
I've learned not to talk about cramps. Do not talk about cramps. Even if you're screaming in pain because your foot just cramped up, do not talk about it.
OH GOD!!! I stepped on this land mine back in college I will never forget this.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
why do you attribute this social awkwardness to your (their) gender? there are also millions of men out there who don't give two licks about the things you're interested in. while it's certainly true it's a more common set of interests for a gentleman, your own gender has nothing to do with whether or not you find the topic of conversation interesting. there are lots of girls like you and lots of guys like the other girls. claiming it's "gender related" is short-sighted and kinda ignorant
i really don't buy into your intended message. i get the distinct impression that you think your interests combined with your gender make you unique and special and your inability to carry on a pleasant conversation about something outside your personal scope of interest is a product of that. it isn't. if this is a relatively common thing, why hasn't it occurred to you that maybe your own horizons need to be broadened, rather than wishing "other girls" could take an interest in starcraft?
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This op almost reads like peanut is having an identity crisis. Like she's trying to say she wants to be a guy because she feels like shes been one all along inside.
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On November 19 2010 16:10 Rekrul wrote: 3 of us talking, i just met guy
guy talking to my roommate: yeah man i dont understand how u play that starcraft game so much like doesn't it dull your mind? like i'd rather have a life to be honest
(i stay silent on this subject cuz whats the point)
roommate: yeah i'm trying to cut down
few mins later same guy: so dan where r u from?
me: ohio but i've been living in korea for a few years
guy: oh really? doing what?
me as if i oblivious to what he just said, happily: oh i was a professional starcraft player
guy: .....oh....wow
i win
Was this convo in korea or SD? cause if in korea lol wtf idiot guy
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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this is general social behaviour(dont know if its actually written that way), the fact that there are generally a larger number of guys interested in gaming doesnt mean that its THAT easy to find someone that has even one or two interests in common with you, most are just casual gamers that when in public look down upon video games or other gamers
i personally live in a very retarded country, its like ages behind world time, i personally had to introduce ALL my friends into gaming in order to find someone to game/talk about it with, and all of them stopped gaming when we got off highschool, with a couple of them coming back at it during vacations time, i periodically meet other gamers in the area through gaming, but most are again, casual gamers and end up leaving after a couple of months
even my family thinks im anti-social because i rather stay at home enjoying myself while gaming or watching anime/movies that go out with people to get drunk and smoke weed(because seriously, thats the only thing they do when they go out), the curious fact is, im actually very good at meeting people/making friends, i just dont give a shit about it because i know none of them is interesting to talk to, its funny, that when i go out with my friends, its random gossip about what other people has been doing for about 10 minutes, then its just drinking and smoking and getting wasted, even when we do poker nights, when the poker its over its "hey lets go for a drink", and bam, back at getting wasted, conversations never last between them because there is never something to talk about, on the other hand put 2 nerds/geeks/otakus/whatever socially looked down people and we can talk for hours about a single theme because its interesting and there is a lot of stuff to talk about it
but is very hard to find people with common interests, because although in the big picture of the world there are many, IRL we are very spread, and a lot of them give up upon social pressure when in public, in my town, the only 2 hardcore gamers i knew, 1 gave upon it when he took a job, and the other one is desperate to enter university because he fells he "wasted" his life and he thinks entering college is the only way to socialize and going back to being "normal"
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I feel that way about living in the deep south sometimes (jsut moved in three months ago from Michigan). It feels like everyone's cut from the same cloth and there's not much room for a huge nerd well-read in internet memes, online gaming, and quick wit. The more I settle in the more I find people similar to me.
If you want to find more people like you, you need to put yourself in a lot of different rooms.
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Thanks especially to spinn, haemonculus, ellerina, hazel, overlordfatty, and sunrise - but also to everyone else who sympathizes - for adding your stories to the mix. I really appreciate it.
FakeSteve: I'm glad you found my story thought-provoking, and thanks for the feedback .
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Omg peanut you're a girl? I honestly hadn't noticed. That's so cute, a girl playing SC, I have to admit I've never met one in real life.
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personally... for me well... I'm in college right now...but it's a community college so.yea
----
Elementary school - only one guy as my friend, hung around, blah (was into yugioh for some reason *shrug*)
Middle school - still that only guy as my friend for awhile, got out of yugioh, got into mtg, TRIED to get into the "in" crowd (or popular groups) the last year of Middle School... since I liked a girl named Jocelyn. people from that group TRIED to make me try to fit. didn't really fit much, and I could never confess (doesn't matter much now.)
High school~ freshman year: all that hard work of trying to get into the popular crowd. wasted. went back to MTG for awhile with a group again (side note: that Jocelyn girl wanted help on a paper, and then apparently copied my whole answer and then submitted it, we got caught apparently (I was just...wow) and then...well.. lolwtf), crap happened when I tried to make a website for my class of 2010, __backstabbed_ and the forum got spammed to hell and nobody says any sort of thank you....got diagnosed with ADD and Autism/Asperger's sophmore year: the guys for mtg stopped playing it. I went into fansubbing anime, and semi got out of my depression ish, (crap happened there, but...asdf) Junior year: started excessively bringing computer. almost also failed high school cause I suck at studying. still subbing, I think I _re_ picked up SC1:BW here Senior year: played HoN, still subbed, found some friends, started talking a bit more, but 90% of the time I'm on the computer, mainly cared about my youth group at church
Note that the only time I went to a rally was my first year. I stopped giving a crap about my class (even now...) after I got "Backstabbed" (which I don't want to talk about much)
after senior year (ish): SC2 comes out, I start playing that + HoN, retired from fansubbing, all my "friends" from my HS move away, I'm staying around for community college and here I am
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well I consider my life shitty, though I can see how it's hard for you as a female, playing SC2/SC when you don't really have any (girl) friends in real life to sympathize with you.
I think I'm _somewhat_ the same since I was stuck on technology to the point of (+ autism + ADD I guess) that I pretty much don't really have friends... as well as even though I mainly use english, my english/speaking/writing/etc fail so hard and I have trouble actually communicating with others in person usually (unless we're talking about games = =) rather than the internet...
All my friends (except for like one or two) are either: from my church, from the internet (old fansubbing partners, guys I work with on it/etc) + I guess anyone from TL, but I haven't been here long enough to establish any relationships whatsoever...
<sorry for hijacking the thread if this post is perceived as such, it just reminds me about my own troubles that were...well bothering me>
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Wow, that's nothing compared to the social awkwardness guys have to go through. There's so much pressure to perform amongst your peers, and if you make any mistakes they can haunt you for a long time.
In high school my parents were trying to get me to be more social and athletic. My dad played college football and I always liked watching football on tv so I decided to go out for the highschool team in my Sophmore year. It started out pretty well. I wasn't very good so I only ever played in the closing minutes of a blow-out game. There was no real pressure for me to be good, I just had to work hard in practice and act like I cared (I didn't really). Playing real football wasn't nearly as fun as watching or playing Madden, but my parents were happy and so I kept it up. We got to the state semi-finals and one of our players, a running back named Dougray, made this incredible run in the fourth quarter to give us a come-from-behind victory. The whole school was there and it was just a great atmosphere, everyone was ecstatic.
After the game we all hit the showers to clean up and it was great, everyone was cracking jokes and palling around. In football there's this kind of custom where it's acceptable to pat another guy on the butt as either a congratulatory gesture or a motivational expression. Like, if you made a nice play a guy might pat you on the ass really fast (and hard) and say something like "nice hustle!" It was pretty common and so I felt comfortable trying it out a couple of times, with moderate success. Unfortunately, this particular instance didn't work out.
Dougray was peacocking around the open shower area getting high fives and fist pounds and butt-taps from the team and everyone was in really excellent spirits. Dougray came by me and grinned and was like "good work, buddy" and as he passed I went in for a butt-slap. I totally misjudged it, and, thanks to the fact that he was wet from the shower, my hand missed and sort of slipped between his butt cheeks. It stuck for a fraction of a second, but it was a fraction too long and he certainly noticed it. He jumped back and freaked out and started saying stuff like, "hey yo this kid just tried to put his hand up my butt" and everyone looked at me with pure disgust. I was horrified and tried to explain but it just snowballed too fast and there was nothing I could do.
Soon the story was being passed around and it evolved from a simple mistake to a story about where I tried to fist rape the star running back or that I was some sort of sexual deviant. My guidance councellor got wind of it and gave me all these pamphlets about sexual harassment and talked to me about how being gay was fine but I couldn't just act on my impulses with any guy. I wanted to be like WTF I like girls you idiot, but there was no use. Being a guy is so tough, you girls have it easy.
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I think people turn into conversation snobs when they need a way to protect their egos and make up for their own awkwardness. If I felt awkward in a social setting I can imagine thinking the conversation is "below" my level as an easy escape to justify my insecurity. "Intellectual" topics are usually the worst.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On November 20 2010 09:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: why do you attribute this social awkwardness to your (their) gender? there are also millions of men out there who don't give two licks about the things you're interested in. while it's certainly true it's a more common set of interests for a gentleman, your own gender has nothing to do with whether or not you find the topic of conversation interesting. there are lots of girls like you and lots of guys like the other girls. claiming it's "gender related" is short-sighted and kinda ignorant
i really don't buy into your intended message. i get the distinct impression that you think your interests combined with your gender make you unique and special and your inability to carry on a pleasant conversation about something outside your personal scope of interest is a product of that. it isn't. if this is a relatively common thing, why hasn't it occurred to you that maybe your own horizons need to be broadened, rather than wishing "other girls" could take an interest in starcraft?
lol QF goddamn T
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It's ok, you should've known from the food alone where the conversation would steer. Feminists... and their hummus... Red tent and menstruation.... Sounds awful, but I'm sure it's just cause they are boors and are only look to get their F-peen bigger. Yes the female-peen.... But I can't say anytihng, cause my friend and I don't talk, like hardly ever. nothing to say.
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Aren't those rosemary and olive-oil Triscuits the fucking bomb?
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On November 20 2010 09:20 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: why do you attribute this social awkwardness to your (their) gender? there are also millions of men out there who don't give two licks about the things you're interested in. while it's certainly true it's a more common set of interests for a gentleman, your own gender has nothing to do with whether or not you find the topic of conversation interesting. there are lots of girls like you and lots of guys like the other girls. claiming it's "gender related" is short-sighted and kinda ignorant
i really don't buy into your intended message. i get the distinct impression that you think your interests combined with your gender make you unique and special and your inability to carry on a pleasant conversation about something outside your personal scope of interest is a product of that. it isn't. if this is a relatively common thing, why hasn't it occurred to you that maybe your own horizons need to be broadened, rather than wishing "other girls" could take an interest in starcraft?
I realise Rekrul already quoted this, but it is pretty important. Earlier in the replies it was mentioned that there doesn't seem to be many guys who have more girl friends than guy friends "unless they are gay or something." I'm a guy who tends to be friends with slightly more girls than guys at any given time and girls rank among some of my best friends. I'm living with two girls at the moment. I don't think I've ever really discussed periods, cramps, engagement rings, Bridezilla or placentas. I admit I have a natural advantage in that it is probably assumed I am not interested in these things, but we have an entire world of other things to talk about. Most of these things are not gaming related. Since moving to Germany I haven't really made any "gaming friends", I had quite a few back in New Zealand, but it just isn't something I have an opportunity to talk about much in a social context these days.
Much like guys, there are interesting girls out there with a range of interests.
This story about hanging out with the "girly girls" and talking about placentas and periods is one that I have heard quite often from girls on the internet into gaming or internet culture, but the parallels drawn between this and stories about guys finding themselves stuck in boring conversations about sport or cars are pretty relevant. It is the same thing and comes purely from an obligation people feel to act "normal" and trying to interact with the wrong people. If you feel like, as a guy, you need to like sports and beer and talk about these things to be normal and go and seek out other guys who like this stuff to try and be normal for a while, that is what you are going to find and if you are not into it, it is going to be awkward and it is going to suck.
The key is to find people that you like and like to hang out with, not find people that you think you should like and like to hang out with.
If the only things you want to talk about involve gaming culture, those are probably the people you should be hanging out with. This is gender irrelevant. In the current social climate, this will probably mean most of your friends are guys, whether you are a girl or a guy yourself.
I don't talk about computers and games with all my friends, this isn't because I am hiding who I am or something, this is because I realise that for some of my friends talking about how awesome that one TvT was last night would be the equivalent of them telling me how painful their cramps were last month. I did however send an IM off to Joe immediately after, I knew he would appreciate the beauty of me triple expanding just after getting my natural sacked.
If you have other things you want to talk about with people, do so, but don't do so because you feel it is what you are supposed to do. Do it because you want to. Don't expect everyone else to care about the same stuff you want to talk about either. Sometimes you may just be in the wrong crowd. Doesn't mean you can't try to expose people to Starcraft, but don't be that friend who is always trying to get everyone to go to the theatre because you guys need some more culture and the new piece by Klachonski is just amazing.
It won't hurt to suck it up for an evening if you made a mistake and went to the wrong party or whatever, but if you find yourself constantly in this situation, you are doing something wrong.
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Alot of people suck, but when it comes down to gender.... its just dicks and cunts
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I really like your writing style, so +1 for that.
Also, interesting. As a straight guy who hangs out with a lot of girls and a number of guy friends who came out as gay in high school this does partly apply to me. I don't have any problems hanging out with other people, but there's definitely that shift that I can feel between it all (I feel like I have a distinct "bro" switch that flips depending on my company, lol).
Mind you, I've also been around those girls for so long that talk about PMS, cramps and all of that doesn't even cause me to bat an eye any more. I can't tell if that's impressive or sad.
Edit: Also, I totally agree with FakeSteve. I mention that "switch," but that isn't so much me forcing it as another part of my personality that I also enjoy/actually am (just because I hang out with girls a lot doesn't make me completely different from the next guy). It really is about interests (and, no, almost none of my friends are technology/gaming geeks except for one or two of that group, so maybe this isn't entirely relevant, lol).
On the other hand, I'm totally not a frat guy, which is why I've pretty much avoided most of that scene in college. I know some people in frats and stuff, but it just isn't really the person I am (I'd rather know a good amount of the people I'm partying with, basically). Lots of people think the stereotypical "college guy" is equivalent to "frat boy," but I don't feel like a total outlier of my gender for not being in it.
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Ooh i liked this read, makes me feel not so alone! :D <3
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This has got to be one of the weirdest bumps ever...
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