pm to ilovekittens but i thought i might get away with posting it here
need urgent girl help
we've been "best friends" for 3-4 years, that is spending more time with each other than anyone else, a long and standard "unrequited love" relationship that has more recently been very "clean" (for 6-12 months). what i mean by this, of course, is i havent made any major fuck-ups in this time such as saying "i love you" and pissing her off.
i am staying at her apartment in another country atm for another 20 days after being here 5. we have had a good time except tonight another guy involved himself and i am/was left feeling very confused and weak.
she seems to be an extremely traditional woman in her actions and i am about to list my problems.
i have little to no idea how to "escalate" or whatever the phrase is. the closest ive come is stroking her hair, after deliberating like crazy and mustering up the courage to reach for her. this is in situations like a bus journey where i sit behind, or lying on the beach.
however situations like this are rare and i find myself wanting to sit close to her or try to hold her hand but the Fear grips me and i feel so terribly strongly that "now is not the perfect moment to do it and hence i will be rejected".
like today we were watching a movie, she lies pointedly away from me but with her head within reach. i deliberated constantly and decided it was an inappropriate time.
and later today we were walking down the street together and i had a burning desire to try to hold her hand, but again the Fear struck and i decided it was an inappropriate moment and with my presumed? knowledge/experience of her that she would reject it. instead i waited, waited, waited for a sign from her (eg she stumbles) but nothing came.
i cant fucking figure it out. one moment she is clawing my arm as she laughs (she laughs a LOT with me - but when has this ever been a sign of attraction?) , and the next moment she is shifting away from me on the chair.
so my first major question is this shitty fucking thing that probably only i can answer by pushing the boundaries in a dangerous fashion rather than waiting waiting waiting for a sign or for the "perfect moment".
this evening we went to a club and met some friends of her friend, one of which was a very ... "active" and confident guy. i asked her to dance at the start of the evening and she said no i dont feel like it. then she "reluctantly" danced with this new guy three fucking times , whilst saying stuff like "man ive had enough of this guy i want to leave soon" inbetween.
as we left the club the guy kinda used his arm to sweep her forwards, past me, and i was left standing behind them for a minute feeling like a complete tool (even tho they werent talking or touching or anything).
Note here that altho i was jealous etc i dont give a shit coz i can deal with that kinda emotional shit. but what i am feeling more than anything is how fucking weak and powerless i am compared to that guy who - because hes a "one time stranger" (and im a long term friend) - could get away with that shit with it seeming "normal" , whereas if i were to do it itd seem abnormal and potentially concerning.....
i am struggling like a motherfucking idiot trying to find a way to escalate with this girl who shows me no sexual signals except for sometimes bringing up sexual topics (like "do men turn around to stare at a womens ass when she passes by" or laughing a lot like a crazy thing or singing gayly constantly or tapping or pulling my arm quite frequently throughout a day.
i honestly feel one moment like she digs me but other times i feel like im just a dog sniffing around her toes. i just dont know what physical thing to do and when i do think of something i just feel like she will brush it aside with some respectful but firm deciciveness.
when you have someone almost falling into you with a cheeky cackle of pleasure but you are "just friends", how do you fucking take that bubbling expression of warmth and make something out of it?
i know you're going to say a few things..
try harder, try more often. dont fucking ASK her about it, just try some more shit and stop saying stupid dumb shit that she doesnt like to spoil the mood. but to this i ask "what do i DO?". do i pull her toward me? do i put an arm around her? do i wait until shes smiling then try to hold her hand?
if your judgement is correct then you have yet to reach that absolute breaking point or perfect moment. i keep saying to myself shit like "when she wants to she will make a move". i mean we get on sooo fuccking well sometimes i am sometimes shocked she hasnt made any sort of move ever. of course, the sexual tension i feel is all in MY head, but as i said she is a very "traditional" woman who seems to respond to advances but never ever makes the move herself...????
fuck idk. i just wanna say "come here" and then try to kiss her or even just do it randomly but i always feel like its the "wrong time". idk how to fucking escalate it please can you give me some sort of advice.
what i kinda figure is that escalation is gradual, but the step from "not holding hands" to "holding hands or kissing" seems like such a fucking leap up from "being tapped on the arm" or "stroking her hair"
This is a pretty classic case of friend-zoned. from my experience, the more you hesitate with a woman the less attracted she will be to you, and if you still hang around her when nothing develops you turn into a friend. Personally, every successful hookup I've had has had a very short, superficial "friends" stage (whether this be over a night or over a few days) and very quickly escalated into a more intimate relationship (ask her out on a date, or make out on the dance floor, etc etc). On the flip side, I've never been friends with a girl for an extended period of time and then gotten together with her, nor do I know of many of my friends where this happened.
It sounds like there's a long history of her rejecting you. If this is the case a simple affectionate gesture isn't going to seal it with her.
I think the best advice I can give is to seek out some other girls.
On July 29 2011 10:02 krypti_c wrote: Kiss her. Thats your only option. And if she rejects you, just remember there are lots of fish in the sea.
This is not (insert movie title here) e.g. Source Code, that's most likely to shatter her image of you and your reputation, by overstepping what she's comfortable with. I'm writing something long so wait for it m8!
On July 29 2011 10:02 krypti_c wrote: Kiss her. Thats your only option.
haha i like this
yup overstepping what shes comfortable with is the big feeling i get. but it could just as well all be in my head. and even if its not all just in my head, maybe shell like it anyway
She knows you want to fuck her. She knows you are too pussy to do anything. She will have you around as her cure-for-loneliness real life teddy bear until she gets a real boyfriend or gets tired of you.
Tell her how you feel about her straight up and don't be a pussy and start stuttering and looking to the side. Make eye contact, speak firmly and clearly.
She will probably say "I don't like you in that way" or something else along those lines.
You will leave her and break off all contact with her and find another girl much better than her. Don't make her your only option because she's already gone, you just haven't been able to confront the truth.
I know it sucks but this is from one bro to another. We've all been there and it always sucks.
Where have I seen you before? Yes FF7 is the best, forever That's right, your sig is familiar.
Anyways, if you've got the relationship issues and want some advice, the best thing that happened to me, so you too, are these threads (FANA y u be banned>!!>>!?!?!) (belive it or not ILOVEKITTENS ain't the only)
Read 'em learn 'em, but your situation may be a bit special. Fuck ok fine I'll put my effort into this at 3AM instead of revamping my MBCGame Twitter OP....
Sounds like you want her to notice you sexually, that instead of just being her emotional support and friend in a more friend-zone sense, you want her to be actively attracted to you, that she wants to please you and make you happy (whatever that would require, dunno, but I don't think it's chocolates).
If you do some sort of big committal move, regardless of what it is, she's always got to make the call: "am I OK with this move?" It doesn't really matter what you do, it's her attitude and reaction. How do I say this...
Haha I feel so blazed right now even though I'm not. I don't know what your relationship/interactions are like, but if I were you, really, be playful (:p there's no way I CAN'T recommend that if I'm listening to THISSSSS [saw 'im live]). Ugh whatever, you can take my advice or leave it, I'll just say:
She knows you want to fuck her. She knows you are too pussy to do anything. She will have you around as her cure-for-loneliness real life teddy bear until she gets a real boyfriend or gets tired of you.
Tell her how you feel about her straight up and don't be a pussy and start stuttering and looking to the side. Make eye contact, speak firmly and clearly.
She will probably say "I don't like you in that way" or something else along those lines.
You will leave her and break off all contact with her and find another girl much better than her. Don't make her your only option because she's already gone, you just haven't been able to confront the truth.
I know it sucks but this is from one bro to another. We've all been there and it always sucks.
dude this is all in the past, done that been there gotten over it now back on the road with a bulldozer trying to figure out what gear to put it in this time so i can break down the fences without tearing up the lawn!
She knows you want to fuck her. She knows you are too pussy to do anything. She will have you around as her cure-for-loneliness real life teddy bear until she gets a real boyfriend or gets tired of you.
Tell her how you feel about her straight up and don't be a pussy and start stuttering and looking to the side. Make eye contact, speak firmly and clearly.
She will probably say "I don't like you in that way" or something else along those lines.
You will leave her and break off all contact with her and find another girl much better than her. Don't make her your only option because she's already gone, you just haven't been able to confront the truth.
I know it sucks but this is from one bro to another. We've all been there and it always sucks.
That is... that is so true man, now that i think about it, i was like wow yeah.
hahah bITt.mAN , ff7 forever. i feel a lot better now, my confidence and mood was so low but writing and reading some crazy shit has got me up again. i guess i just need to step it up for real
She knows you want to fuck her. She knows you are too pussy to do anything. She will have you around as her cure-for-loneliness real life teddy bear until she gets a real boyfriend or gets tired of you.
Tell her how you feel about her straight up and don't be a pussy and start stuttering and looking to the side. Make eye contact, speak firmly and clearly.
She will probably say "I don't like you in that way" or something else along those lines.
You will leave her and break off all contact with her and find another girl much better than her. Don't make her your only option because she's already gone, you just haven't been able to confront the truth.
I know it sucks but this is from one bro to another. We've all been there and it always sucks.
dude this is all in the past, done that been there gotten over it now back on the road with a bulldozer trying to figure out what gear to put it in this time so i can break down the fences without tearing up the lawn!
Please don't tell me that was with this same girl. Please.
Just go out and have fun. Drink beer with your guy friends and have them invite some girls. Bullshit around and laugh and take photos and put them on facebook for her to see. She will see that you actually have a life other than chasing her and being her toy. She will get jealous when you start surrounding yourself with other girls. Either you find another girl or she realizes she fucked up and wants you back. Probably the former but then who knows.
Just do not give her all of your time. She wants to do something? Say you have plans. It might be sitting at home watching idiots on youtube but how the fuck would she know. She wants to meet a guy that has a fun filled life and then wedge herself into that man's life.
Be that man.
Not the dude that watches chick flicks with her and brings her tea and cookies and listens to all her problems.
She knows you want to fuck her. She knows you are too pussy to do anything. She will have you around as her cure-for-loneliness real life teddy bear until she gets a real boyfriend or gets tired of you.
Tell her how you feel about her straight up and don't be a pussy and start stuttering and looking to the side. Make eye contact, speak firmly and clearly.
She will probably say "I don't like you in that way" or something else along those lines.
You will leave her and break off all contact with her and find another girl much better than her. Don't make her your only option because she's already gone, you just haven't been able to confront the truth.
I know it sucks but this is from one bro to another. We've all been there and it always sucks.
honestly i find one of the biggest misconceptions men have about women is that they know all that stuff, i've seen female friends totally not notice how some guys fancy the hell out of them and yet it be completely obvious to other people. some girls maybe not but on average women are just as dumb about the other sex as men are about them.
as for advice for you, i dunno how good my advice is but i would say that there is nothing you have described that sounds too much like shes into you. of course i have no real experience of what you're describing but talking about guys looking at girls arses and grabbing arms when laughing seems like standard friends behavior even between men and women. in my opinion big romantic gestures like just kissing her there and then don't work outside of films. what you've really gotta decide is whether you think there is enough of a chance that she likes you that its worth taking the risk that the confrontation will ruin the friendship, which it in all honesty it more than likely will if she doesn't like you.
sorry if my advice is depressing and i have to say i don't know how right i am but good luck and hope everything goes well
I'd be playful. If you're within range some time, just poke her on the upper-arm, justify with "I just felt like it". Then with a mandatory " :p " reaction, :p
You could talk about it in a joking relaxed way (as in not directly "I WANT YOU") e.g. "do you think I'm romantic/attractive ... :p " Bring up the idea of her being attracted to you, but without doing something all-in that's a slight chance of success versus permanent damage. You can't do anything, so you guys won't "do" anything, untill she accepts the notion of being attracted to you. A kiss or ~touch~ when she's not comfortable with liking you is a great way to stop being friends. The same thing when she's more accustomed can have a different reaction.
There's no guarantee that you'll 'get anything goin' but don't 4pool and hope to get lucky. You may have to accept the notion that something ~romantic~ won't go down between you, but I'd rather have a friend than someone who I creped out and it's all awkward with later.
Ok examples examples (I just watched both of Harry Potter 7, and since I've got no current targets in my entourage I'll try to empathize by imaging that you're +- with Emma Watson [not to be creepy, that's just on my mind. I'm no 16-yo-old idolater either]).
The "in da club" thing, if it's bothering you, raise the issue. [preferably get some alcohol in her before-hand, she'll have less inhibition to stop from saying what she really thinks, instead of lying about how she feels to "protect your feelings" and "not make you feel bad". Fuck that, you'd rather be straight-up]
Oh yes, <3 Tifa, Advent Children was actually what got me into FF in the first place. Watched that at a friend's house ---> FFVII Fo-Eva!
Back to business Really, take the mindset that pervades this song, and bring that careless attitude, determination and light-hearted fun into your interactions
HA! I'm just groovin and grinnin already. Know that you're the boss, make it so that she can't take your affirmation, support and praise (please no) for granted. If she asks you to do something small (can you throw this away for me please? oh could you take out the trash?) be like "do I look like your bitch? ... q: " . The point is that she doesn't take you for granted, and that effort is required from her side to please you, if she wants stuff from you. The most important thing though is that you're not stone-faced and serious, I've repeated the q: because it's so essential, that you're having fun instead of being serious -->awkward.
On July 29 2011 10:31 FFGenerations wrote: well like i said im living with her atm in another country for 20 days haha idk i just need to pull it together
Honestly dude, living with someone in a "best friend" situation is not a preliminary step to having a relationship. Thinking that it is, well that's just a little bit creepy. You need to realize that you're in the classic friend zone, and follow the advice that others are giving you.
It's a bad position to be in because most of them think that they are in the right ladder when they are not.
As for the future, the advice that I'll give is that girls are not attracted to guys who are hesitant. Be confident, take risks - you'll make mistakes but you'll be better off.
It's tricky, and even harder to pull off, because you tread a pretty thin line with girls like this (trust me, I've sure as hell been there. Wish I'd know better at the time but that's that).
Do you want me to explain the response-to-creeper mindset? ok sure
She clearly trusts you, otherwise you'd sure as hell not be sleepin in her house, just you two, for over 3 weeks. Now the worst thing that can happen in her mind is if that trust is violated. If she feels safe with you and trusts you to not take advantage of her (she's entered you into just about her most intimate setting, really, sharing a house, alone, with a member of the opposite sex, for an extended period of time). Imagine if you had a younger sister, and you've got a friend staying over at your place for a week (sister's in the house), and it turns out that the only reason he wanted to stay at your place was to be ~near~ your sister, hopin for something to happen.
That's nasty, right? Bitches be crazy, especially with whatever they tell their friends, and before you know it she could be convinced that you don't want to be her friend, all you're there for is hoping for sexy time, and you likely masturbate thinking about her every night. FUCKIN HELL these could all be true, and thats understandable, but if she thinks that, you're screwed.
I don't really know how it goes down between you guys (BTW are you in a country with a culture that would allow a bit of nonchalant love-makin? if you don't mind tellin, where you be?), but she can't feel like that trust is violated. Instead she needs to feel that it's "right".
The trick is transforming Platonic to Romantic infatuation; never a guaranteed success.
People seem to be saying your situation is desperate, that you have crossed into the "friends only" sector, and that you need to find a new girl, which tends to be the "typical by the book" response that i would expect you to get. However, as someone whose started multiple relationships with long time friends I would say they are wrong.
Indeed sometimes things might not work out but that isn't reason to give up hope. From my experience (believe me if you want its up to you really) brash moves like "just kiss her" only end poorly coming from someone who has played a friend role for so long. (unless you live in a chick flick) I think the awkwardness that would come with that, especially considering you said you are staying with this girl long term, would not at all be worth it. Best case scenario she falls "in love" with you, worst case scenario you completely ruin your friendship and the rest of the time you have with her will be super awkward.
What i would suggest is playing it cool. And i don't mean douche bag cool, I mean like tyler cool. or in other words, chill. while you may be bursting at the seams to touch her or kiss her you can't let her see that. Girls generally do not do well with guys who are drooling over their slightest touch. You have to be confident and somewhat collected. My advice, start making advances in conversation before making actual physical advances. You say she gives you mixed signals so you should try to clear up these signals. this may sound nerdy especially coming from a sc2 site (lolzz) but intellectually charm her. as i dont kno your exact relationship i cant tell you the magical words that will get her to reveal her interest in your or increase it but it often is easier to flirt (non physically) with long term friends before making an actual physical move. For instance slightly sexual jokes work good. Keep them light and not overly apparent. See if she bites. If she does casual slide more in. Start broad and narrow down on more personal things.
Subtlety is your friend when trying to romance a friend! Random super obvious moves are freightening, i generally take a more gradual approach. You say you've pet her hair. That's cool. Just make sure shes comfortable with it. You have more time there you shouldn't be in a huge rush!
To address the "new guy" subtlety is also your friend. You know this girl wayy better than him. INSIDE JOKES. so he may be more suave or better looking or wutever the case may be it doesnt matter because you know her better you should know how to make her laugh more or feel more secure. If you can make her laugh about something that he has no idea whats going on thats gonna work really great in your favor. Maybe you two have a joke about douche guys- slide a line in there that she would find funny that refers to something hes doing. You gotta pull her onto your side. BUT don't be an asshole about it. Sometimes you have to let her out a little bit to eventually reel her in. pick your moments. yeah its gonna be rough if she does something you don't like. you can't let it get you down. you've put in a ton of time getting to know this girl, you can wait a little longer.
read her body language. it seems like you have been trying to do this already so keep up the good work. girls are tough reads sometimes and if you think sometimes she may be digging you and others she may not... that may actually just be the case! i kno plenty of girls who are so indecisive when it comes to guys, it really pays to make a move when the body language is giving the the go.
my last bit of advice in this block will be the ehhh greyest? and it is of course a little liquid courage. While this seems to be a sham bit of advice it can actually help a bit when talking to girls, especially friends who you wanna make a move on. get a few drinks together. maybe play some drinking games or something do it in a fun way. (DONT GET SMASHED) be respectful but a little alcohol always helps a bit in the promiscuity department. nothing like a drunk "heart to heart" to hash out some of those feelings (just dont blurt it all out at once -_- remember tyler chillness). also alcohol may help with ur anxiety to touch. no it won't make you not want to touch her- probably the opposite- but thats ok as long as you do so in a respectable manner.
so yes. all in all be patient, i recommend not doing anything too abrupt (unless you are making a byte by byte all in kinda move). bring your conversations to a more sexual level. use inside jokes and personal effects to your advantage, and don't get discouraged. if you wanna talk feel free
What's been said about alcohol is totally true. If it's balls you need to say something, alcohol can certainly help. Too much however can make the move ineffective as you come off as too drunk to take seriously, and it can also let you have terrible terrible judgment (which, coupled with the lack of inhibitions can make for some REALLY regrettable 'moves').
what's in the spoiler, in retrospect, is likely rather unnecessary, but I bothered to write it. it's the "in case you don't think she's OK with Sex, her mentality about you is:" + Show Spoiler [If you don't think she's o…] +
I still like the idea of talking about attraction/relationships with her, to try and break an image she may have of you as "trust-worthy because he's not quite a lady-killa" and change it to "ok, he's a sexual being too y'know, ----> he's available". If 'you being available' automatically means she's yours is something you can't control, but you can at least make sure she knows that EDIT you're sexually available.
First, the attitude and approach. What you don't want is some big OMG revelation that shatters her understanding of your relationship. If she's on the innocent side and thinks you're just friends, busting out an "I LUURV you" will make her uncomfortable because she is clearly not passionate about you like that (it'll just be really akward).
Either that or she thinks of you more like a "soumis" - a nice concise French term for a tool basically, someone that lets everyone walk over him, so it's easy and OK to lead him around on a leash because she can get away with it. If you busted out the same professions (subliminally) her rule would be over, she couldn't toy with you anymore and she'd have to let you go because you're no longer useful/fun to her.
Ya can't really tell which one it is, so pick a strategy that works for both. By being joking, light-hearted, and non-serious (reason for this is if you talk to her in a serious "I LOVE YOU" sense she has no way to escape, but if it's light-hearted you can salvage the situation a lot better).
Simply put (because this is getting long, it's getting late, I prefer waking up in the first half of the day and not the afternoon, RESPECT kOre I'll PM you later about overcoming the fear-of-hurting-the-days-after-preventing-you-from-going-to-BBoy-trainin, and you're right the simple solution is probably just that she's totally fine with being with you, but would feel like a slut feel wrong if she initiated the come-ons.... adult friends with benefits y'know)
Simply put (fuckin hell I'm incoherent, sorry), in her little mind you want to have the "Sex?" box checked, when she thinks of you. Thought process: "you? + sex? = checked? ok, I'm fine with what he does as long as it's not too abrasive or embarrassing"
First, she needs to know that you're a sexual being, that it does actually happen that you're interested in the opposite sex (e.g. when watching a movie and you think an actress looks pretty damm hot in a scene, go ahead and say it!). Note how it's not a "you're hot", it's the roundabout 'thinking people are hot does pass through my mind, and I've got the confidence to voice my opinions about it with you'.
[meme] then suddenly, "you ~get her~ "[/meme] it's not that easy sadly
nice post from a guy i relate to, including about the "friend zone" thing being BS its really hard for me, i do feel like i miss opportunities and am passive when i shouldnt be - like im TOO careful, even when she practically invites me also what you say about feeling like you need to rush - this stupid guy tonight made me feel like that and its totally wrong! (what you say about alcohol too haha!)
i need to wake up a little bit more, be less passive (although not aggressive - just less passive coz that should be good enough, at least to create more opportunities)
idk about my conversation skills, i think i SUCK at saying "interesting" stuff and am very actively forcing myself to not say a lot of things that ive come to recognise that i get a bad reaction from. (eg she hates my anecdotes). i am good at saying FUN stuff but often spoil it by switching into nerd mode half way thru
to those saying it might be creepy or whatever, we're adults not niave teens
On July 29 2011 11:12 kOre wrote: just pull her in and don't think about it, do this a couple times and she'll get the hint and then the next time PUCKER UP AND GO FOR IT :D
who cares if you switch into nerd mode, if that's what's comfortable then stick with it. oh and the friend zone thing is bullshit lol i was good friends with a friend of mine for a long time before we started going out and she also says the friend zoned thing is garbage.
I don't think she's interested in you romantically, from what I've skimmed over. I think that self-reliance is an important virtue toi have, so it might be more essential to your well-being that you move away from her and see that there are a lot of other women in the world and how many of them have something special to offer you.
I'm in a really silly mood, and I wanted to post a courage-wolf poster reading "She put you in the friend zone? Put her in the rape zone!" but I don't want to get banned.
Being friends with a girl first doesn't necessarily mean you can never have a relationship. But in this case, I would bet my posting privileges that this girl has you labeled cuddle bitch all over. Please temp ban me for a week if the op comes back and says "I told her how I feel and we're dating now!"
From the way you describe it, you are delusional. You think your lack of initiative is what's holding you back, but the reality is that because you are her friend, she is NOT going to reject you outright. She will always be subtle. Girls, at least girls who aren't complete bitches, are going to evade the issue entirely, giving someone like you a glimmer of hope. "I just haven't found the right moment yet!" But there is no moment. It won't happen. Try harder next time.
Kissing her while you are staying with her in another country is a recipe for disaster. If things go badly it will be really awkward for the remainder of your time.
As far as big picture relationships go, I'm going to be a bit harsh. You've been in the friends zone for 4 years and nothing has happened. She doesn't think of you as more than friends. There is no such thing as a perfect moment that will suddenly make you guys have a relationship. It's time to man up and drop the idea of having a relationship with her. Stay friends sure, but that's in. Hit the gym, start eating better, and find a girl that wont waste your time. When there's a chance for a relationship with a girl, you know in your gut. None of this wishy washy I'm not sure what she is thinking type of thing. There is an attraction, a chemistry that you can sense. You'll know it when you feel it. I don't think it's happening with this girl.
On July 29 2011 11:38 [Atomic]Peace wrote: Kissing her while you are staying with her in another country is a recipe for disaster. If things go badly it will be really awkward for the remainder of your time.
As far as big picture relationships go, I'm going to be a bit harsh. You've been in the friends zone for 4 years and nothing has happened. She doesn't think of you as more than friends. There is no such thing as a perfect moment that will suddenly make you guys have a relationship. It's time to man up and drop the idea of having a relationship with her. Stay friends sure, but that's in. Hit the gym, start eating better, and find a girl that wont waste your time. When there's a chance for a relationship with a girl, you know in your gut. None of this wishy washy I'm not sure what she is thinking type of thing. There is an attraction, a chemistry that you can sense. You'll know it when you feel it. I don't think it's happening with this girl.
So "him + sextime = exist" then "him + sextime = ok!"
If you're her ~bitch~, unless you like licking feet for nothing in return, it's not good. You've gotta reverse them roles, that she can't lead you around. A fun thing that I just thought of (and it's a good example) is, effectively, reject her, so that she subliminally gets the message that she can't just walk all over you.
Wake up early-ish one day (lol not gonna happen tomorrow) and go get a coffee or a croissant or something FOR YOURSELF ONLY , bring some remains of it back (nearly empty cup, crumb napkin) so that she knows you went out of your way to treat yourself, but instead of being her adoring follower and showering her with unrequited presents you didnt bring an offering back for her. if WHEN she asks why you didn't bring anything back for her again I'd personally say " well I'm not your bitch q: + - Go get it yourself q: " then once she understands that you're joking a "Oh well I didn't know you wanted some." Next day the exact same routine, but don't eat the thing, bring it back intact, and lead her on that you've (missed up an opportunity to appease her) only got one for yourself .... then bust out another one for her as well so you can both have a nice morning. Nice hunh (:
On July 29 2011 10:09 obesechicken13 wrote: [ig] You're the dark green frog and the guy.
nope i think i just miss the shit out of opportunities and fail at creating them and just dont know what to do
But you said that she'd denied your advances before.
we've been "best friends" for 3-4 years, that is spending more time with each other than anyone else, a long and standard "unrequited love" relationship that has more recently been very "clean" (for 6-12 months). what i mean by this, of course, is i havent made any major fuck-ups in this time such as saying "i love you" and pissing her off.
Anyways it might work out if you're persistent. It did for frog guy
we've been "best friends" for 3-4 years, that is spending more time with each other than anyone else, a long and standard "unrequited love" relationship that has more recently been very "clean" (for 6-12 months). what i mean by this, of course, is i havent made any major fuck-ups in this time such as saying "i love you" and pissing her off.
Anyways it might work out if you're persistent. It did for frog guy
But frog guy was a fictional character, and the woman who hooked up with him only did it because she was like "My biological clock is ticking!" but she was still freaked out by the thought of dating him.
if you're EVER confused about what a girl thinks and how she feels, ask her closest girl-friend, as long as you can trust that girl not to tell your babe-to-be. Really, the simplest solution to your problem of "not knowing" is to ask. You can't ask directly, because bitches be indirect: girls will lie to you if you confront them, they will not say what they actually feel or think about you to your face (unless they're really angry) because "that's a bitch thing to do". They're not totally evil, they still care a bit about your feelings, so to ~not hurt your feelings~ they'll evade rejecting you outright and dodge. This sucks because a guy would prefer a straight-up, clear-cut answer, and he'd rather deal with the rejection and move on, than be confused.
Talk to a friend of hers who would know "what does [babe] think of me. Am I her toy, her `bitch` that she can do what she wants with, or would she be OK with the fact that our really long friendship has lead to develop normal heterosexual attraction to her." Ok maybe not that wording, but basically if you don't know or are unsure, you need to know. If you're talking around [babe] then make it totally clear to [friend] that you trust her not to spill the beans on you (You'd rather make-or-break it yourself), and that you trust her enough to be totally honest that you're sexually attracted to [babe] and you want something to come of it because it's been so long and you really like her. Unless [friend] is a total bitch that hates the idea of you guys being together, she'll likely oblige you this information, or even end up getting it for you. Hell, you may even just go for her in a more no-strings-attached way q:
Just have good judgment, and don't reveal your battle-plan to someone who is an evil Protoss is on the opposing side
If she's ready to fall into your arms, and it's a "you lack the libido to get in her pants", doing what I suggested will make her more open to that idea, and if she's into it then she'll make it easy and be more clear about it. (FUCK it's 5AM here) lol now 5:15
Going to hop on the "you got friend zoned" boat, especially with that "we've been "best friends" for 3-4 years" opener. If you honest to god could not live without knowing if it would work then you need to be honest with her and find out her feelings. If she says she just wants you as a friend you are 100% fucked, instead of currently just being 95% fucked.
On July 29 2011 12:42 taldarimAltar wrote: Pretend to get drunk and hug her real tight, then if she likes you she'll reciprocate, if not i don't think it'll work out man.
On July 29 2011 12:42 taldarimAltar wrote: Pretend to get drunk and hug her real tight, then if she likes you she'll reciprocate, if not i don't think it'll work out man.
hahah this is genius.
im gonna try it with random girls i know if i can
YEAAAAH BRO! it works with randoms pretty well actually lol
On July 29 2011 10:52 Azzur wrote: I'm sorry to say this, but you have almost 0% chance. Get acquainted with the ladder theory: http://www.laddertheory.com/
It's a bad position to be in because most of them think that they are in the right ladder when they are not.
As for the future, the advice that I'll give is that girls are not attracted to guys who are hesitant. Be confident, take risks - you'll make mistakes but you'll be better off.
On July 29 2011 11:12 kOre wrote: just pull her in and don't think about it, do this a couple times and she'll get the hint and then the next time PUCKER UP AND GO FOR IT :D
if she reacts negatively to you pulling her in (say when you are sitting on a couch watching a movie or something) then ... yeah lol
In all seriousness, I agree with this. I mean...what do you have to lose? You want to continue being her pet? Or would you rather get down to the bottom of this and move on. Being her "friend" is clearly bothering you, because you want to know how she feels about you.
If the kissy kissy kiss turns out good, congrats. If not, worse thing that could happen is you enduring the rest of your stay with her being awkward, then after that you move on to better things.
On July 29 2011 12:42 taldarimAltar wrote: Pretend to get drunk and hug her real tight, then if she likes you she'll reciprocate, if not i don't think it'll work out man.
hahah this is genius.
im gonna try it with random girls i know if i can
YEAAAAH BRO! it works with randoms pretty well actually lol
The pretense of being drunk give you the license to do almost anything at night, it even gives you the opportunity to start a conversation the next time you see her. "Sorry bout that night, i was real drunk and what exactly did I do?"
When are you people gonna get this... Alpha gets the pussy. Beta gets to cuddle.
You werent "alpha" enough and got "zoned". The guy who danced with her 3 times is definately alpha. His chances of fucking her is way higher than yours.
When will guys fuckin get this.....YOU DONT GET PUSSY BY BEING SWEET AND AFFECTIONATE AND SUPPORTIVE and all that other bullshit. You WILL get "ZONED"...God!! come on already guys get with it please for the love of God.
The next girl blog I see better be about someone nailing their neighbor's step-daughter while her mom sleeps in the next room!!!
On July 29 2011 20:33 SaRrAceN wrote: When are you people gonna get this... Alpha gets the pussy. Beta gets to cuddle.
You werent "alpha" enough and got "zoned". The guy who danced with her 3 times is definately alpha. His chances of fucking her is way higher than yours.
When will guys fuckin get this.....YOU DONT GET PUSSY BY BEING SWEET AND AFFECTIONATE AND SUPPORTIVE and all that other bullshit. You WILL get "ZONED"...God!! come on already guys get with it please for the love of God.
The next girl blog I see better be about someone nailing their neighbor's step-daughter while her mom sleeps in the next room!!!
Well there's always one idiot in each of these girl blogs. Glad that's out of the way
Just go for it next time. You gotta go all-in at some point to win the game, so just give it a try. Worst case, it because awkward between you guys for a bit. But if you've been best friends for years, you should be ok.
Not doing something is always worse, even if what you do is wrong. At least you know where you are then
Well if you have no alternative place to stay besides her place, risking a bold move might result in lots of awkwardness. At the same time, however, risking the move as quickly as possible allows you to have the remaining time fucking the living hell out of her. Okay maybe you don't want exactly that, but you get a ton of time to do romantic things that may or may not include sex.
SO TAKE THE RISK
One of my friends (who's pretty good with the ladies) always used to remind me, "there is no friendship between men and women." By an extension of that, there is only different levels of attraction - similar to the ladder theory that was linked previously in this thread. Clearly, with this girl, the level of attraction she gives off to you is pretty damn high. Attraction levels change for various reasons over time, so it doesn't matter if you were her best friend for many years, things can change.
If you can't find the perfect moment to pull the trigger, grab a couple drinks and down them (with her). You can drink with her in the privacy of her place with nobody else, how easy can this be? With decent pace control you should be able to reach the tipsy stage without getting knocked out, make sure she's about the same (control your pace accordingly), then you know what to do after that.
Oh and no need to list a lengthy story of explanations and crap to her, just grab her and stare into her eyes for a bit and she'll get it.
Basically, when you start hanging out with a girl you have to make a move within 2 meetings. That is, of course, if she's already someone you know. You can hang out together once and get away with not making a move, since you're just setting up the acquaintance, but the second time there better be some physical, unambiguous connection that indicates that you want some kind of sexual interaction with her. Generally, a girl will probably see you in that context at that time and go along with it.
If you go too long without going forward, expect to be permanently locked in the friend category. You are now just a piece of entertainment for her, and she will take your emotional support while satisfying her more raw physical needs with less sensitive and more aggressive men. You're basically wasting your time if you think you can get a relationship out of it.
The exception to the above rule is if you started out established as friends, and you initially never considered screwing around with that person. That might result in some UST that builds and has the potential to be acted on. This can happen with friends' girlfriends or roommates and the like (whom you're not initially friends with).
If you're friends with a girl you're attracted to, you can either lay it on the line or try more annoying coy shit like stroking their hair for ten years, OR just lay down and accept it. Sometimes it's nice to have a good girl friend (who you'd totally bone in a second, I know) whom you get along with and just leave it at that - that's probably how she sees the situation anyways.
For your specific situation, I'd say you're way too far gone. Either you have to step up your attraction (PUA style) and pray it works, or lay it all on the line and hope for the best. If it doesn't work you're just going to have to lay down and accept that you'll never be more than just friends, or better yet, GET OUT OF THAT SITUATION.
On July 29 2011 11:14 FFGenerations wrote: nice post from a guy i relate to, including about the "friend zone" thing being BS its really hard for me, i do feel like i miss opportunities and am passive when i shouldnt be - like im TOO careful,
From your OP to this response, I've gotta say that you sound EXACTLY like I did in high school.
This is not a compliment. I was pathetic in high school. I spent two years after some girl constantly wanting to do things like hold hands, put an arm around her, kiss, etc.
But I never did.
Why?
Because I was an idiot!
Don't be an idiot.
You have three options:
1). Follow your gut and make a move. She may totally go for it, but she could also slap you in the face! This is a "high risk high reward" option; I personally don't think it's the right move for you.
2). Tell her how you feel. I think this is the best option for you. If I learned anything from my years of unrequited love, it's that telling her and getting it over with is FAR less painful than torturing myself with it for a long period of time. Relationships are built on communication and you're not communicating. You can hear the "we're just friends" line, or she could totally go for you. She's not a mind-reader, so you shouldn't bank on nonverbal communication to convey your point. Take the chance and go for it!
3). Do Nothing Keep the present course of action. This will drive you insane. You will start becoming more reckless around her, say stupid things, and anger easily. Been there, done that, NOT FUN! Grow a pair and do something already!
There is no 100% safe option. Sorry. I know you don't want to feel this way, but action without 100% assurance of success is your only way out. Good luck!
I kind of like the post [2 spots] above me. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a place to sit down with her and "tell her how you feel". That doesn't mean you tell her "I love you, I want to be w/ you, etc.", but what you do say is something like:
Listen, we've been friends for years but the truth is that I'm attracted to you. I've been here for 5 days and I'm kind of losing my sanity. In the past I've brought up the "relationship thing" and you weren't interested, so I've also spent a lot of time trying to keep it friends only. But that's not going to work for me. Spending just 5 days with you, in another country no less, is enough to frustrate every emotion I have. Not a smart move on my part. On one hand, I don't want to ruin our friendship, but on the other hand, I want a relationship that goes beyond being "just friends". I think it wiser to keep my sanity, even if that means scaling back my contact with you to next to nothing.
I wouldn't use that word-for-word because every situation is unique, but I think that gives you somethings to think about. Just make sure to:
1. Tell her how you feel (about her) and what you're feeling (about you) 2. Be willing to step away from the whole thing, and tell her you will
In all honesty, she probably wont respond the way you hope. There will probably be some part of her that says to herself "I don't need this right now" or "this is unfair of him". If anything, it will take some time for her to come around if she does come around at all. Make sure you don't get mad at her (though its okay if you're mad/frustrated in general). But whatever you do, don't keep doing what you've been doing, you will drive yourself insane, and no one wants to be in a relationship with an insane person.
You say that you aren't really good at saying interesting things and that you tend to "nerd out" midway through conversations. That is ok. You don't have to be talking her down all the time (in fact thats probably not a good thing). Just find a few topics that are broad that you know she likes to talk about. Careful observe her. Toss slight joking comments about little things she does that you find "cute" "funny" or wutever. Girls will be surprised if you remember little things and bring them back up later. Say she laughed about something at time A, keep that in mind so that you can make a similar remark if something happens at time B that will remind her of her laughter. If you are uncomfortable with your conversation skills just pick your moments wisely. Emphasize the quality of what you say over the quantity. Though this isn't to say that you should creepily never say anything, thats obviously not a good thing. (not everything you say will be a hit though. even professional speech writers and comedians have their off days)
Remember shes already your friend so there is no point in playing the "bad boy" card or seriously changing the way you act around her. So what you need to do is showcase your most sexual attractive attributes.
Also as far as nerding out goes, if you are nerdy your gonna have to embrace that (we all all in some way or another) but you don't have to be ultra nerdy around her. It is ok to sensor yourself in conversation (but don't completely change who you are, that could come back to hurt you in the end). Girls don't mind a little nerdiness they just generally don't want to be showered in nerd talk. Also different nerdy topics carry different weight. Find out what her nerdy habits are (we all have them if you look hard enough) and "tailor" your nerdiness to things she can relate to.
On July 29 2011 23:51 Knightlax wrote: I kind of like the post [2 spots] above me. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a place to sit down with her and "tell her how you feel". That doesn't mean you tell her "I love you, I want to be w/ you, etc.", but what you do say is something like:
Listen, we've been friends for years but the truth is that I'm attracted to you. I've been here for 5 days and I'm kind of losing my sanity. In the past I've brought up the "relationship thing" and you weren't interested, so I've also spent a lot of time trying to keep it friends only. But that's not going to work for me. Spending just 5 days with you, in another country no less, is enough to frustrate every emotion I have. Not a smart move on my part. On one hand, I don't want to ruin our friendship, but on the other hand, I want a relationship that goes beyond being "just friends". I think it wiser to keep my sanity, even if that means scaling back my contact with you to next to nothing.
I wouldn't use that word-for-word because every situation is unique, but I think that gives you somethings to think about. Just make sure to:
1. Tell her how you feel (about her) and what you're feeling (about you) 2. Be willing to step away from the whole thing, and tell her you will
In all honesty, she probably wont respond the way you hope. There will probably be some part of her that says to herself "I don't need this right now" or "this is unfair of him". If anything, it will take some time for her to come around if she does come around at all. Make sure you don't get mad at her (though its okay if you're mad/frustrated in general). But whatever you do, don't keep doing what you've been doing, you will drive yourself insane, and no one wants to be in a relationship with an insane person.
This is all wrong. You're assuming women respond to logic and reason and show empathy towards guys they aren't sleeping with/want to sleep with. That's probably why you ended your suggestion with the disclaimer that it probably won't work lol.
He'd be a million times better off coming home with another drunk girl and fucking her brains out while his "best friend" has to listen to them go at it all night from the next room.
Or, if he's in very good shape, he should make sure to come out of the shower and have the towel fall just as she turns to say hi. She will then be staring at his penis and chiseled muscles in the comfort of her own home. Instant sex.
Or he should get drunk, walk naked into her room at night, and get into bed with her and start "cuddling" like he always does except this time with a raging boner jabbing into her ass through her jammies.
Lastly, he could just walk into her room with his shirt off holding a 9" dildo in his left hand and his own dick in his right. Then stare right into her eyes and say "You are going to experience satisfaction now. One way or another." And then descend upon her with manic abandon.
In general though, women tend to respond well to nudity and aggression. That's if you're fit and good looking at least. If not, rubber band a wad of hundred dollar bills around your dick and carry a suitcase full of more money in each hand. Open the suitcases if she's still being tepid.
On July 29 2011 23:51 Knightlax wrote: I kind of like the post [2 spots] above me. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a place to sit down with her and "tell her how you feel". That doesn't mean you tell her "I love you, I want to be w/ you, etc.", but what you do say is something like:
Listen, we've been friends for years but the truth is that I'm attracted to you. I've been here for 5 days and I'm kind of losing my sanity. In the past I've brought up the "relationship thing" and you weren't interested, so I've also spent a lot of time trying to keep it friends only. But that's not going to work for me. Spending just 5 days with you, in another country no less, is enough to frustrate every emotion I have. Not a smart move on my part. On one hand, I don't want to ruin our friendship, but on the other hand, I want a relationship that goes beyond being "just friends". I think it wiser to keep my sanity, even if that means scaling back my contact with you to next to nothing.
I wouldn't use that word-for-word because every situation is unique, but I think that gives you somethings to think about. Just make sure to:
1. Tell her how you feel (about her) and what you're feeling (about you) 2. Be willing to step away from the whole thing, and tell her you will
In all honesty, she probably wont respond the way you hope. There will probably be some part of her that says to herself "I don't need this right now" or "this is unfair of him". If anything, it will take some time for her to come around if she does come around at all. Make sure you don't get mad at her (though its okay if you're mad/frustrated in general). But whatever you do, don't keep doing what you've been doing, you will drive yourself insane, and no one wants to be in a relationship with an insane person.
This is all wrong. You're assuming women respond to logic and reason and show empathy towards guys they aren't sleeping with/want to sleep with. That's probably why you ended your suggestion with the disclaimer that it probably won't work lol.
He'd be a million times better off coming home with another drunk girl and fucking her brains out while his "best friend" has to listen to them go at it all night from the next room.
Or, if he's in very good shape, he should make sure to come out of the shower and have the towel fall just as she turns to say hi. She will then be staring at his penis and chiseled muscles in the comfort of her own home. Instant sex.
Or he should get drunk, walk naked into her room at night, and get into bed with her and start "cuddling" like he always does except this time with a raging boner jabbing into her ass through her jammies.
Lastly, he could just walk into her room with his shirt off holding a 9" dildo in his left hand and his own dick in his right. Then stare right into her eyes and say "You are going to experience satisfaction now. One way or another." And then descend upon her with manic abandon.
In general though, women tend to respond well to nudity and aggression. That's if you're fit and good looking at least. If not, rubber band a wad of hundred dollar bills around your dick and carry a suitcase full of more money in each hand. Open the suitcases if she's still being tepid.
Do every single one of these suggestions, then your cell mate in jail can do them as well!
On July 29 2011 23:51 Knightlax wrote: I kind of like the post [2 spots] above me. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a place to sit down with her and "tell her how you feel". That doesn't mean you tell her "I love you, I want to be w/ you, etc.", but what you do say is something like:
Listen, we've been friends for years but the truth is that I'm attracted to you. I've been here for 5 days and I'm kind of losing my sanity. In the past I've brought up the "relationship thing" and you weren't interested, so I've also spent a lot of time trying to keep it friends only. But that's not going to work for me. Spending just 5 days with you, in another country no less, is enough to frustrate every emotion I have. Not a smart move on my part. On one hand, I don't want to ruin our friendship, but on the other hand, I want a relationship that goes beyond being "just friends". I think it wiser to keep my sanity, even if that means scaling back my contact with you to next to nothing.
I wouldn't use that word-for-word because every situation is unique, but I think that gives you somethings to think about. Just make sure to:
1. Tell her how you feel (about her) and what you're feeling (about you) 2. Be willing to step away from the whole thing, and tell her you will
In all honesty, she probably wont respond the way you hope. There will probably be some part of her that says to herself "I don't need this right now" or "this is unfair of him". If anything, it will take some time for her to come around if she does come around at all. Make sure you don't get mad at her (though its okay if you're mad/frustrated in general). But whatever you do, don't keep doing what you've been doing, you will drive yourself insane, and no one wants to be in a relationship with an insane person.
This is all wrong. You're assuming women respond to logic and reason and show empathy towards guys they aren't sleeping with/want to sleep with. That's probably why you ended your suggestion with the disclaimer that it probably won't work lol.
He'd be a million times better off coming home with another drunk girl and fucking her brains out while his "best friend" has to listen to them go at it all night from the next room.
Or, if he's in very good shape, he should make sure to come out of the shower and have the towel fall just as she turns to say hi. She will then be staring at his penis and chiseled muscles in the comfort of her own home. Instant sex.
Or he should get drunk, walk naked into her room at night, and get into bed with her and start "cuddling" like he always does except this time with a raging boner jabbing into her ass through her jammies.
Lastly, he could just walk into her room with his shirt off holding a 9" dildo in his left hand and his own dick in his right. Then stare right into her eyes and say "You are going to experience satisfaction now. One way or another." And then descend upon her with manic abandon.
In general though, women tend to respond well to nudity and aggression. That's if you're fit and good looking at least. If not, rubber band a wad of hundred dollar bills around your dick and carry a suitcase full of more money in each hand. Open the suitcases if she's still being tepid.
Do every single one of these suggestions, then your cell mate in jail can do them as well!
So it's clear you've played a 45 minute macro game, the map is indefinitely split in half with tank lines drawn across the ridges. You know your minerals are running low and you've been throwing small harassments at her without any success. You're exhausted and can't find any opening despite countless scans and even sensor towers in place.
It's time my friend, for the all in. One can always do a late game all in, it's the last resort, it's the perfect play.
How can you execute this effectively? Well, you COULD run headstrong with your marauders stimming in and chucking frags blindly into the sky. But that of course, is a platinum level move, surely a man of your caliber could do something better than this:
It takes a little more finesse after all, it's the doom drop that's your move. Hit her in the production facilities, put your feelings and marines right in front of her and it'll either be a success and she'll have to rebuild her base in your heart or you'll instead be cut short by her defensive turrets before you finish unloading - forcing you to gg and start a new game.
Um wow, interesting posts and thread. I've been friend zoned at multiple points in my life and it never ends well. Eventually I learned to move on and only then did I find a real relationship. Although that post on making your friend into your girlfriend was very interesting, so perhaps you should try some of that stuff. I think at the very least you should screw the subtlety and just tell her how you feel. Just man up and be honest. If you do it correctly, you'll still remain friends with her if you fail, and achieve something more if she likes you back. At least that's how i would do it, still theory-crafting here.
On July 29 2011 21:09 Hassybaby wrote: Well there's always one idiot in each of these girl blogs. Glad that's out of the way
What I said may have been harsh but and I can see why you may be offended but 90% of girl blogs are like this. Everytime I read one of these I cringe at how some people here dont really get women at all. I just felt it had to be said. I dont know any of you personally but that doesnt mean I dont wish the best for you guys and seeing guy after guy fail at something so simple(yes getting pussy is simple) is heartbreaking. Were my words harsh ? Yes. Could I have said it better ? Perhaps, but it is truth. Many of you are doing the same thing without a clue as to why you're failing.
Hasserbaby you shouldnt call people who get more pussy than you "idiots" in girl blogs. Think me presumtuous by implying I get more than you ? Well....
On July 29 2011 21:09 Hassybaby wrote: But if you've been best friends for years, you should be ok.
Uh ??? Virgins shouldnt be giving advice on girls.
On July 29 2011 21:09 Hassybaby wrote: Not doing something is always worse, even if what you do is wrong. At least you know where you are then
Did you even read his blog ? You should already "know where he is"...again, this is why virgins should just stfu in girl blogs....Or is it that you lack basic comprehension ? And you want to call people idiots ?
Even if you kissed her, even if you did everything. You're always going to have this fear of rejection.
I remeber taking the initiative and told her, I liked her to her face.
And yeah, Classic Friendzone.
Seriously you're best bet. If you truly wanna love her. You just gotta throw everything out the window (you're feelings)
You gotta break the ice SUDDENLY.
I would do this
"listen I need to try something, I'm hoping for the best".
She will ask you what.
SIT DOWN, GRAB HER HANDS. AND KISS HER ON THE LIPS.
If you can do that, you have a solid chance at discussing you're feelings without fear. If she is not into you, you're where I was (exept i never kissed her)
If i've offended any virgins here, then I sincerely apologize. There is nothing wrong with being a virgin just as there is nothing wrong with being say...an accountant. But tell me how would you feel if you are qualified in engineering and the accountant called you an idiot because of your evaluation of a building or a bridge. The accountant doesnt know shit about the subject and should not engage someone with more knowledge in that arena in such a manner.
On July 30 2011 09:06 krndandaman wrote: also, sorry to break it to you but not all guys have the same goal of merely having sex with the girl they like. sex is a great thing but it should not be the main goal in a relationship with a girl.
This doesnt apply here. The OP already cuddles and talks etc with this woman but he wants to take it to the next level. What do you think he is really talking about ? Be aware of this reality: you can cuddle and play puppy games all you like with a woman, but if you're not boning then its not a relationship, its a friendship. For all intents and purposes, his goal is sex, it does matter in this case.
i dont cuddle with her, the thing i face is never seeming to have an opportunity to do anything physical (and maybe thats only because im a newb). my real question is how do you set up or do something physical? it always seems like we're positioned wrongly and if i move myself then it would be over-bearingly obvious. for example, sitting or standing very close to her feels very unnatural when you're smoking on a huuuuge balcony or sitting on a huuuuge couch where theres plenty of room for 6 people let alone being snug for 2.
so im looking for ways to get our bodies closer but in a natural way. this is what i mean by "escalation".
none of this generalised stuff about friend zone or bring home other women really applies to me. all i need to fuckin do is get close and sensual and itll work itself out already.
idk come on someone must know what do to
lets say you're smoking on a big balcony leaning over the wall with a girl, and you wanna get closer to her physically. what would you do to make a joke out of it so it doesnt seem like you're just randomly about to rape her?
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: i dont cuddle with her, the thing i face is never seeming to have an opportunity to do anything physical (and maybe thats only because im a newb). my real question is how do you set up or do something physical? it always seems like we're positioned wrongly and if i move myself then it would be over-bearingly obvious. for example, sitting or standing very close to her feels very unnatural when you're smoking on a huuuuge balcony or sitting on a huuuuge couch where theres plenty of room for 6 people let alone being snug for 2.
so im looking for ways to get our bodies closer but in a natural way. this is what i mean by "escalation".
none of this generalised stuff about friend zone or bring home other women really applies to me. all i need to fuckin do is get close and sensual and itll work itself out already.
idk come on someone must know what do to
She doesn't want to get close to you, and tbh based on your blog post I don't blame her. You sound like the classic creeper horndog. If a woman wants you to touch her she will give you multiple opportunities to do so. There is absolutely no need to "craft" the situation to allow you to get in some kind of pervert pawing.
She is giving you very clear body language that she doesn't want you to touch her. You should accept that and move on. Anything else would probably be considered a mild form of rape.
dont be daft, i described her as quite traditional and passive in practice, meaning the guy has to make the move. shes not an american slut who drapes themselves over people, she has an potent and "ladylike" sense of what is "appropriate" behaviour, like many girls do, and you have to be quite delicate with her when she is not in the right mood. when she IS in the right mood she can get very saucy but thats no good when you dont know what to do about it!!!
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: so im looking for ways to get our bodies closer but in a natural way. this is what i mean by "escalation".
You make it sound as if you're trying to con somebody. I dont this this is the right mental approach.
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: none of this generalised stuff about friend zone.......applies to me...
However if i recall:-
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: i asked her to dance at the start of the evening and she said no i dont feel like it.
Then:-
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: she "reluctantly" danced with this new guy three fucking times
Friend Zone.
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: lets say you're smoking on a big balcony leaning over the wall with a girl, and you wanna get closer to her physically. what would you do to make a joke out of it so it doesnt seem like you're just randomly about to rape her?
This sounds so creepy again, like you're trying to con somebody or steal something. Things like this you do without thinking. Do you think any young couple actually strategize over simple things like hugs and shit ? Its just part of the deal like breathing, you dont think about it. If something like a mere hug or touching her hair are focal points in your dealing with any woman then im sorry to say it again.....Friend Zone.
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: she has an potent and "ladylike" sense of what is "appropriate" behaviour, like many girls do
I dont know this woman but I hope you really aren't giving her more credit than she deserves. Remember this always, no matter how "ladylike" a woman is she still wants to be fucked senseless by a 9 inch cock. She is a woman with womanly desires regardless of how she carries herself.
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: idk come on someone must know what do to
On July 30 2011 11:19 FFGenerations wrote: dont be daft, i described her as quite traditional and passive in practice, meaning the guy has to make the move. shes not an american slut who drapes themselves over people, she has an potent and "ladylike" sense of what is "appropriate" behaviour, like many girls do, and you have to be quite delicate with her when she is not in the right mood. when she IS in the right mood she can get very saucy but thats no good when you dont know what to do about it!!!
My god man. This friend of yours will soon pass out from lack of oxygen if you keep raising her pedestal so high.
Go! Just make a move! Just kiss her, you don't have to be sitting down or anything, just do it!
It's not the end of the world if she doesn't like you. Not every girl you like will like you back. Just make sure you have a place to stay in case worse goes to worst and she kicks you out.
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: i dont cuddle with her, the thing i face is never seeming to have an opportunity to do anything physical (and maybe thats only because im a newb). my real question is how do you set up or do something physical? it always seems like we're positioned wrongly and if i move myself then it would be over-bearingly obvious. for example, sitting or standing very close to her feels very unnatural when you're smoking on a huuuuge balcony or sitting on a huuuuge couch where theres plenty of room for 6 people let alone being snug for 2.
so im looking for ways to get our bodies closer but in a natural way. this is what i mean by "escalation".
none of this generalised stuff about friend zone or bring home other women really applies to me. all i need to fuckin do is get close and sensual and itll work itself out already.
idk come on someone must know what do to
She doesn't want to get close to you, and tbh based on your blog post I don't blame her. You sound like the classic creeper horndog. If a woman wants you to touch her she will give you multiple opportunities to do so. There is absolutely no need to "craft" the situation to allow you to get in some kind of pervert pawing.
She is giving you very clear body language that she doesn't want you to touch her. You should accept that and move on. Anything else would probably be considered a mild form of rape.
I definitely agree with StorkHwaiting. You definitely come off a bit creepy. I'm just curious why do you want her to have physical attractions to you so much? Do you just want to have sex with her or you actually want a long lasting relationship? If you want the latter, I definitely would wait until the right time... which is definitely not now. Long-termed friends aren't meant to have a relationship.. until the age of 30+ when both are single and realized what they've been looking for in their life partner is right next to them.
If you want to know if she has feelings for you and want to touch her at the same time, how about try riding the subway/bus with her at night? Sit next to her and pretend to fall asleep on her shoulder. She'll most likely tell you to wake up but be persistent and just keep your head on her shoulder and smile. If she freaks out.. then well just say you're not yourself atm, still being able to remain your friendship. If she doesn't then she definitely have some feelings for you.. Just crafting a possible situation that will not put you in a weird situation.
On July 30 2011 12:39 JiSu wrote: If you want to know if she has feelings for you and want to touch her at the same time, how about try riding the subway/bus with her at night? Sit next to her and pretend to fall asleep on her shoulder.
*Sigh* This is why you guys are failing so hard. Women want men....MEN. MEN do not "pretend" to fall asleep on a woman to gauge her feelings. Men take the initiative and find out directly. MEN ask. MEN go all in and say to this woman EXACTLY why he wants her. It doesnt have to be in an overly serious tone, you can mix a little humor in there and some sincere flattery but be direct. If you think she is sexy tell her! If she drives your hormones wild, TELL HER!!(yes you can tell women this and depending on how you say it you can even get a blush from her.) Look her directly in her eyes when you're engaging her. Don't stutter or otherwise do anything can communicate your self-doubt/lack of confidence.
This is what it means to be a man. Women dont find cheap approaches to cop a feel here or there cute. In fact many will be repulsed by it. Women respond more positively to a guy who isnt afraid to take control. BE A MAN!
Edit :- Were you trolling with that second paragraph JiSu ? lol
On July 30 2011 12:39 JiSu wrote: If you want to know if she has feelings for you and want to touch her at the same time, how about try riding the subway/bus with her at night? Sit next to her and pretend to fall asleep on her shoulder.
*Sigh* This is why you guys are failing so hard. Women want men....MEN. MEN do not "pretend" to fall asleep on a woman to gauge her feelings. Men take the initiative and find out directly. MEN ask. MEN go all in and say to this woman EXACTLY why he wants her. It doesnt have to be in an overly serious tone, you can mix a little humor in there and some sincere flattery but be direct. If you think she is sexy tell her! If she drives your hormones wild, TELL HER!!(yes you can tell women this and depending on how you say it you can even get a blush from her.) Look her directly in her eyes when you're engaging her. Don't stutter or otherwise do anything can communicate your self-doubt/lack of confidence.
This is what it means to be a man. Women dont find cheap approaches to cop a feel here or there cute. In fact many will be repulsed by it. Women respond more positively to a guy who isnt afraid to take control. BE A MAN!
Edit :- Were you trolling with that second paragraph JiSu ? lol
I wasn't really trying to troll lol. Looking at his other posts about how he wants to approach her, I was just trying to crafting him a possible situation where he can know her feelings and touching her without coming off as a potential rapist.. lol
This seems hopeless. Tell me why are you friends? Do you posess any interesting qualities or abilities? Does she know about it? What do you do if she ignores you? Do you chase her around like a dog or ignore her as punishment? Do you REALLY think she's 'different' from every other girl?
First of all, it doesn't seem like you value youself enough, so why should she?
How do I know? You mentioned your heart beating towards the end of your blog. That isn't because of how you say you feel about her, but because you're scared to act.
At this point I wouldn't even bother man.
But just for the hell of it ask her if she wants to kiss you. Just bring it up casually in conversation. If she says: maybe - then kiss her. If she says: no - say: 'I didn't say you could'
BTW: Sexual tension isn't in your head. It comes from your interaction with a person of the other sex and if you're feeling it, they're most likely feeling it too. It's your hormones acting up, not your imagination.
Just go meet new people and don't wait 3-4 years to do something next time.
I'm going to give the same advice I do in almost every girl blog.
Make a move *now* or never. Guys friend-zone themselves, it's self inflicted. Either make a move now and possibly secure a romantic involvement, or don't ever, and enjoy your friendship.
Just, whatever you do don't wait another 3 months and bust out the super awkward "uhhhhh i've been attracted to you since we met" crap.
ahhh there is so much negativity in the blog... and no one seems to actually want to answer his questions, just put in their own generic 2 cents that they have "established" to be true.
i don't see how people can be so dismissive of the situation. yes sometimes people (maybe even a majority of the time) who are friends with a girl remain friends and never break through but that's not to say it is impossible. I don't see why you would come here to bash the guy and tell him to give up. He seems pretty committed to at least trying to make it work out and that's a great start. Yeah, it might not work out but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
ffgenerations is asking how to move physically closer to a girl in a way that doesn't come off as creepy. This seems like a reasonable request regardless of the situation. Anyone who has said they have never wondered these things to themselves and that it is "a creepy rapist mentality" is either lying or is too big of a d bag to be conscious of it. There is nothing wrong with planning ahead of time how to handle a situation you are uncomfortable with.
-for me that question is kind of hard to answer, and relies a lot with the girl and the specific situation. you don't have to be standing or sitting ultra close to a girl to casually make a move. rather you shouldn't be creepily close to her if you aren't ready to make a move. its hard for me to picture a smoke session (unless its weed) turning into something more romantic, but maybe thats because i'm not a cig smoker. something about moving in close while trying to simultaneously avoid cig smoke being blown in your face seems strange . As far as the couch situation goes, you can find ways to close the gap between you two preemptively. the obvious answer would be to sit on a smaller couch/chair. If that's not possible then try to be the first one to sit down and sit on your half of the couch, but barely on your half so your basically sitting in the middle of the couch before she sits down.
there are so many cliche ways to slowly make a move closer to a girl, but unless she has been really putting off vibes that shes super interested (which doesn't seem to be the case) i would advise against them. As I was saying before girls like directed attention that pertains to only them. Try to think of a creative thing to say or do that is original and pertains to something between you two. Obviously that's not an easy thing to do but if you think about it I am sure you can come up with something. Remember to be cool and collected.
I do have to say to say though that you can plan for years how to approach your girl but in the end you just have to go for it, and it will never go exactly as planned so just go with the flow and you'll be fine. You know her the best so only you can really hash out the specifics on how exactly to approach her. Despite what people may seem to think they know in this thread every girl is a bit different and if you focus on what makes her different and not generic advice your chances will greatly improve.
On July 30 2011 11:04 FFGenerations wrote: i dont cuddle with her, the thing i face is never seeming to have an opportunity to do anything physical (and maybe thats only because im a newb). my real question is how do you set up or do something physical? it always seems like we're positioned wrongly and if i move myself then it would be over-bearingly obvious. for example, sitting or standing very close to her feels very unnatural when you're smoking on a huuuuge balcony or sitting on a huuuuge couch where theres plenty of room for 6 people let alone being snug for 2.
so im looking for ways to get our bodies closer but in a natural way. this is what i mean by "escalation".
none of this generalised stuff about friend zone or bring home other women really applies to me. all i need to fuckin do is get close and sensual and itll work itself out already.
idk come on someone must know what do to
lets say you're smoking on a big balcony leaning over the wall with a girl, and you wanna get closer to her physically. what would you do to make a joke out of it so it doesnt seem like you're just randomly about to rape her?
Bro best advice for you ever I speak from experience.
Take the plunge and only 1 of 2 things can happen: (don't kiss her just lace fingers and do it tight don't have it loosy)(loosy is for couples who are comfortable with things)
A) It goes good. She holds hands with you and things stick you guys will actively work out a relationship together. (if she doesn't bring it up the hand holding/stuff eventually, you then bring it up in a very polite manner)(in a manner which she'll feel like a total bitch if she tries avoiding you) (then you can settle things)(ps when doing it this fake as much confidence as possible but don't say something obnoxious like "I know you like me" just be firm and confident in everything you do if not she'll dodge and you'll restart the whole process of shitstorms)
B) It goes bad. She pulls away and she's shocked. Or she held hands and she said she just didn't want to hurt you at that time. This leads to 2 different routes: i) you can try to psycho her into thinking by her being so comfortable with you cuddling and all that you guys are right for each other and she just hasn't noticed it yet(if she's stubborn or sees through this ploy: you're fucked) (if she doesn't and you win her over: I owe you a beer for your jedi mind trick secrets) ii)if all of the above fails you explain to her that her cuddling and being so close and all is just too confusing and you need your sanity back to figure out and get over her. TELL HER where she confuses you. Don't pussy out. If you pussy out of telling her where your confusion is, YOU WILL LOSE this friendship. By the sounds of it you're pretty much nuts over her and can't bear to lose her. So remember this step man. The great thing about explaining it to her where it's all confusing....is that at least no one else will ever be screwed over by her again and you get to keep her as a friend. Less cuddly friend but hey at least you'll have your peace of mind and closure. What's the last step? Meet someone. Or meet people at least. Explore your options with other women. The analogy of many fish in the sea is true after all. Sure it's like me saying "hey man there's salmon, monkfish, bass, trout, shark, crab, lobster but at the moment you're just craving that tuna"
The thing is salmon is a pretty frickin awesome fish =D and mate I know you'll still be hung up when all of this has come to an end. You'll wish that you were still cuddling with her. But 1 month down the line when you're single and meeting new people and you've just moved on....It'll feel great and you'll wonder why you stuck around for so long. I'm not saying it'll be easy to take that first step. But once you cure yourself of your addiction to her...You'll feel clean and made anew. And that's pretty dang awesome.
So awesome you'll go and get yourself some salmon.
Source: I was my best friend's cuddle bitch for 2 1/2 years and then I turned her world inside out when I walked away getting my closure. Felt SOOO GOOD. I got a girlfriend 2-3 months down the line then who's even more awesome than my best friend. Doesn't change the fact she's still one of my nearest and dearest because I made sure we did it right the whole way. She's actually from a whole other country that's pretty dang expensive to fly to...but because I did it right we've kept it tight so well she's flying here to visit me in about 2-3 weeks time.
On July 30 2011 20:39 Haemonculus wrote: I'm going to give the same advice I do in almost every girl blog.
Make a move *now* or never. Guys friend-zone themselves, it's self inflicted. Either make a move now and possibly secure a romantic involvement, or don't ever, and enjoy your friendship.
Just, whatever you do don't wait another 3 months and bust out the super awkward "uhhhhh i've been attracted to you since we met" crap.
OP say's he's been pursuing the girl for like years and he's already told her that he loves her so your advice isn't really relevant.
Will keep in mind for the future. I don't think it's fair that guys can have a friendzone but girls can't though.
OP your 20 days are almost over, I don't think you were considering establishing a lasting relationship on that. Did you get any advice on a suave physical approach though?
no not really but you know what i got something better. we talked about how rediculously different people can be in the way they think and how that affects how they view other people.
for instance she feels that people who dont speak their mind (even if they shout it and it causes an arguement) are weak and never solve problems. i had to explain that people that can be like this are like that because THEY think it is the better way to deal with relation problems by sucking it up and quietly compromising so as to avoid aggressive confrontational situations.
so to actually be attractive i need to stop quietly (or as i see it cleverly) brooding about shit and trying to diffuse situations with silence or avoidance, and instead become more confrontational (confident and fearless) and meet any issues head on.
this is something i believe in but from the way i was brought up by my family and grew up i tend to back down to conflict (or aggression as i might see it) and feel very strong negative emotions such as fear of consequences that make me avoid it.
anyway i did reach for her hand at a random time just an hour ago and she let me play with it while she talked. it was about as far from romantic as you can get (as was the current topic of conversation) but it was still a barrier that ive been too afraid to go near and i dont know if i would have done it without this thread and reshuffling my thoughts (also the rare choice of seating on somewhere we've never sat before haha. damn why are seating arrangements so unromantic)
I can give you no better advice than to stop thinking about it so much and do what the fuck you want to do. If this girl wants you, she will agree with me. It sounds rediculous, and hell, it is rediculous. It can also be terrifying. But what's more rediculous and terrifying is seeing her in 2 years cuddling with the boyfriend she's dating and knowing the reason that it's not you is because you were too much of a spineless bitch to take a risk.
As for physical logistics, none of that shit matters. You don't need to be suave, there's no "moves" you need to pull. The emotions and submodalities are the meat of what you're working with. If she likes you, she's going to go for it. If not, she won't. Your execution isn't going to make the difference. One time I tried to micro my arm around a girl and accidently smashed my hand into her face, she didn't give a shit. The submodality that I wanted her was infinitely more important.
Just tell her, "Do you know otters hold hands when they sleep so they don't get seperated?" and grab her hand like you don't give a fuck.
On July 31 2011 08:33 FFGenerations wrote: anyway i did reach for her hand at a random time just an hour ago and she let me play with it while she talked. it was about as far from romantic as you can get (as was the current topic of conversation) but it was still a barrier that ive been too afraid to go near and i dont know if i would have done it without this thread and reshuffling my thoughts (also the rare choice of seating on somewhere we've never sat before haha. damn why are seating arrangements so unromantic)
18 days left btw
Then you probably have 2 more tries.
If you grab her hand too often and without the barest good reason to it will come off as random. I could hold my sister's my mom's my grandma's my bajillion female friends but not the bros. anything but the bros that would go awkward.
You need to grab that hand and lace fingers with it. not flipping play with it! you know what playing with a hand means? It means you're playing with it. You're not holding it. There's an electric emotional connection from the bit where your fingers are between her fingers. And if you play with it. NOTHING.
So you just need to hold it. that's all lace fingers and hold. that's it. and hold it with emotion.
If you're looking for a spark. Just take her somewhere you know the view will turn romantic or awesome and that's it. While staring. Grab that hand.
Don't cross barriers cause they're there, cross barriers like you're trying to create hallmarks of history in your relationship. And if you do it during a unattractive or awkward moment. It'll just look like you're seeking comfort and she'll think you're only seeking comfort.
I'm sorry but this thread has just become super creepy. I think I'm going to show it to some of my girlfriends just to see the expressions on their faces. Do you guys have any idea how fucking weird it is to be sitting here talking about the nuances of how to hold a girl's hand? Jesus christ. I have never in my life sat around thinking about something as inane as that.
Get a girl to like you by impressing/charming her. If you are so lost that you're worrying about how to hold her hand, she's way out of your league. Move on. You act like the moment she says yes to dating or some shit it will be some type of happily ever after crap. It won't. If you're having this much trouble just getting a freaking date, the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
On July 31 2011 23:35 StorkHwaiting wrote: I'm sorry but this thread has just become super creepy. I think I'm going to show it to some of my girlfriends just to see the expressions on their faces. Do you guys have any idea how fucking weird it is to be sitting here talking about the nuances of how to hold a girl's hand? Jesus christ. I have never in my life sat around thinking about something as inane as that.
Get a girl to like you by impressing/charming her. If you are so lost that you're worrying about how to hold her hand, she's way out of your league. Move on. You act like the moment she says yes to dating or some shit it will be some type of happily ever after crap. It won't. If you're having this much trouble just getting a freaking date, the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
I can't say I agree with the tone you've spoken in, but your sentiment is basically correct, especially the bolded part. This is good advice.
On July 31 2011 23:35 StorkHwaiting wrote: I'm sorry but this thread has just become super creepy. I think I'm going to show it to some of my girlfriends just to see the expressions on their faces. Do you guys have any idea how fucking weird it is to be sitting here talking about the nuances of how to hold a girl's hand? Jesus christ. I have never in my life sat around thinking about something as inane as that.
Get a girl to like you by impressing/charming her. If you are so lost that you're worrying about how to hold her hand, she's way out of your league. Move on. You act like the moment she says yes to dating or some shit it will be some type of happily ever after crap. It won't. If you're having this much trouble just getting a freaking date, the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
I can't say I agree with the tone you've spoken in, but your sentiment is basically correct, especially the bolded part. This is good advice.
Sorry. I shouldn't have been so harsh. I'm just appalled. I've never encountered anything as weird as this whole electric bits between the fingers and playing with a girl's hand to try to get intimate with her. Maybe small things like footsie, but it should be an instinctual/sensorial thing not some calculated technique.
On July 31 2011 23:35 StorkHwaiting wrote: the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
'Cause any relationship where the woman doesn't do laundry and cook is a disaster eh?
Anyways, to OP - you have over two weeks to make her look at you differently. Someone said 'don't give her the "i've been attracted to you since we first met" crap' and that's very true.
Your ONLY hope is to say something along the lines of 'recently i've started seeing you in a different way' and have her reply 'hey, me too - you've changed somehow'.
In order to achieve this, you have to actually change in her eyes though. Do you think the guy who broods over some random dude who danced with her a couple of times at a club and ponders the impact of holding her hand is going to be this new you she sees? No.
You have to change from a thinker to a doer in her eyes and you'll have ample opportunity to do so. Important - this shouldn't be stuff you do to her, it should be stuff you do with her (actually she just has to be close enough to observe).
Take control.
1. Of social situations - if you're at a table with friends, you should be the focal point of attention, with interesting stories, witty replies and just a general air of confidence. If her friends think you're cool, likely she'll warm to you as well. Be careful not to come off as some attention-craving douche or drunk overpowering asshole though - "owning the table" is a must-have skill.
2. Of yourself. Whatever you do should not be an attempt to 'seem cool', it should simply be you doing what you do. Even playing starcraft is cool if you do it with confidence and passion. This is where a grand gesture usually comes in. You have to do something that shows passion. After all these years you should know what she cares about. Something simple, animals perhaps? An example of a gesture would be to steal (yes, steal - shoplift) an expensive fur coat, dig a hole for it and hold a burial, free some lobsters from a restaurant tank - something risktaking enough to impress.
3. Of your environment. What's this crap about romantic situations? Create them! Break into an abandoned old building (urban exploration) and hide a pic-nic basket with some beers somewhere. Take her there on a star-lit night and say you have something cool to show her, sit on the roof and enjoy the night (DON'T go for any romantic approach here unless it's 100% obvious she wants it, she's supposed to see that you do this stuff for your own sake, not as part of some year-old plan to 'get her').
Have a good time in this foreign country, be very extrovert and confident and worst case scenario you'll have enjoyed your stay there, best case scenario she'll be curious about this new, changed you.
On July 31 2011 23:35 StorkHwaiting wrote: the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
'Cause any relationship where the woman doesn't do laundry and cook is a disaster eh?
Anyways, to OP - you have over two weeks to make her look at you differently. Someone said 'don't give her the "i've been attracted to you since we first met" crap' and that's very true.
Your ONLY hope is to say something along the lines of 'recently i've started seeing you in a different way' and have her reply 'hey, me too - you've changed somehow'.
In order to achieve this, you have to actually change in her eyes though. Do you think the guy who broods over some random dude who danced with her a couple of times at a club and ponders the impact of holding her hand is going to be this new you she sees? No.
You have to change from a thinker to a doer in her eyes and you'll have ample opportunity to do so. Important - this shouldn't be stuff you do to her, it should be stuff you do with her (actually she just has to be close enough to observe).
Take control.
1. Of social situations - if you're at a table with friends, you should be the focal point of attention, with interesting stories, witty replies and just a general air of confidence. If her friends think you're cool, likely she'll warm to you as well. Be careful not to come off as some attention-craving douche or drunk overpowering asshole though - "owning the table" is a must-have skill.
2. Of yourself. Whatever you do should not be an attempt to 'seem cool', it should simply be you doing what you do. Even playing starcraft is cool if you do it with confidence and passion. This is where a grand gesture usually comes in. You have to do something that shows passion. After all these years you should know what she cares about. Something simple, animals perhaps? An example of a gesture would be to steal (yes, steal - shoplift) an expensive fur coat, dig a hole for it and hold a burial, free some lobsters from a restaurant tank - something risktaking enough to impress.
3. Of your environment. What's this crap about romantic situations? Create them! Break into an abandoned old building (urban exploration) and hide a pic-nic basket with some beers somewhere. Take her there on a star-lit night and say you have something cool to show her, sit on the roof and enjoy the night (DON'T go for any romantic approach here unless it's 100% obvious she wants it, she's supposed to see that you do this stuff for your own sake, not as part of some year-old plan to 'get her').
Have a good time in this foreign country, be very extrovert and confident and worst case scenario you'll have enjoyed your stay there, best case scenario she'll be curious about this new, changed you.
Any relationship in which you can't envision your gf doing things to please you for the sake of pleasing you is a disaster, yes. Then again, the fact you're giving him advice on how best to bend over backwards says a lot about your philosophy towards dating.
On July 31 2011 23:35 StorkHwaiting wrote: the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
'Cause any relationship where the woman doesn't do laundry and cook is a disaster eh?
Anyways, to OP - you have over two weeks to make her look at you differently. Someone said 'don't give her the "i've been attracted to you since we first met" crap' and that's very true.
Your ONLY hope is to say something along the lines of 'recently i've started seeing you in a different way' and have her reply 'hey, me too - you've changed somehow'.
In order to achieve this, you have to actually change in her eyes though. Do you think the guy who broods over some random dude who danced with her a couple of times at a club and ponders the impact of holding her hand is going to be this new you she sees? No.
You have to change from a thinker to a doer in her eyes and you'll have ample opportunity to do so. Important - this shouldn't be stuff you do to her, it should be stuff you do with her (actually she just has to be close enough to observe).
Take control.
1. Of social situations - if you're at a table with friends, you should be the focal point of attention, with interesting stories, witty replies and just a general air of confidence. If her friends think you're cool, likely she'll warm to you as well. Be careful not to come off as some attention-craving douche or drunk overpowering asshole though - "owning the table" is a must-have skill.
2. Of yourself. Whatever you do should not be an attempt to 'seem cool', it should simply be you doing what you do. Even playing starcraft is cool if you do it with confidence and passion. This is where a grand gesture usually comes in. You have to do something that shows passion. After all these years you should know what she cares about. Something simple, animals perhaps? An example of a gesture would be to steal (yes, steal - shoplift) an expensive fur coat, dig a hole for it and hold a burial, free some lobsters from a restaurant tank - something risktaking enough to impress.
3. Of your environment. What's this crap about romantic situations? Create them! Break into an abandoned old building (urban exploration) and hide a pic-nic basket with some beers somewhere. Take her there on a star-lit night and say you have something cool to show her, sit on the roof and enjoy the night (DON'T go for any romantic approach here unless it's 100% obvious she wants it, she's supposed to see that you do this stuff for your own sake, not as part of some year-old plan to 'get her').
Have a good time in this foreign country, be very extrovert and confident and worst case scenario you'll have enjoyed your stay there, best case scenario she'll be curious about this new, changed you.
Any relationship in which you can't envision your gf doing things to please you for the sake of pleasing you is a disaster, yes. Then again, the fact you're giving him advice on how best to bend over backwards says a lot about your philosophy towards dating.
Not an attitude towards dating, an attitude towards life. Bending over backwards is the best way to have a fun trip/weekend/whatever. If you want to live a comfortable life - that's fine, but best not start 'til we're past the age of 40, ok? ^__^
For the record i know what you meant; that she does some occasional cleaning and cooking doesn't rule out him doing it as well and the scenario you're afraid of is that he'll end up doing everything just to please her. It's just a poor choice of words though, you'll have to admit. For so long that has been considered 'a woman's job' and any man who does housework is 'whipped'. Should have went with something like 'if you want her to drive you somewhere' or something instead
On July 31 2011 23:35 StorkHwaiting wrote: the actual relationship is going to be a disaster. GL getting her to do your laundry or cook you dinner.
'Cause any relationship where the woman doesn't do laundry and cook is a disaster eh?
Anyways, to OP - you have over two weeks to make her look at you differently. Someone said 'don't give her the "i've been attracted to you since we first met" crap' and that's very true.
Your ONLY hope is to say something along the lines of 'recently i've started seeing you in a different way' and have her reply 'hey, me too - you've changed somehow'.
In order to achieve this, you have to actually change in her eyes though. Do you think the guy who broods over some random dude who danced with her a couple of times at a club and ponders the impact of holding her hand is going to be this new you she sees? No.
You have to change from a thinker to a doer in her eyes and you'll have ample opportunity to do so. Important - this shouldn't be stuff you do to her, it should be stuff you do with her (actually she just has to be close enough to observe).
Take control.
1. Of social situations - if you're at a table with friends, you should be the focal point of attention, with interesting stories, witty replies and just a general air of confidence. If her friends think you're cool, likely she'll warm to you as well. Be careful not to come off as some attention-craving douche or drunk overpowering asshole though - "owning the table" is a must-have skill.
2. Of yourself. Whatever you do should not be an attempt to 'seem cool', it should simply be you doing what you do. Even playing starcraft is cool if you do it with confidence and passion. This is where a grand gesture usually comes in. You have to do something that shows passion. After all these years you should know what she cares about. Something simple, animals perhaps? An example of a gesture would be to steal (yes, steal - shoplift) an expensive fur coat, dig a hole for it and hold a burial, free some lobsters from a restaurant tank - something risktaking enough to impress.
3. Of your environment. What's this crap about romantic situations? Create them! Break into an abandoned old building (urban exploration) and hide a pic-nic basket with some beers somewhere. Take her there on a star-lit night and say you have something cool to show her, sit on the roof and enjoy the night (DON'T go for any romantic approach here unless it's 100% obvious she wants it, she's supposed to see that you do this stuff for your own sake, not as part of some year-old plan to 'get her').
Have a good time in this foreign country, be very extrovert and confident and worst case scenario you'll have enjoyed your stay there, best case scenario she'll be curious about this new, changed you.
Any relationship in which you can't envision your gf doing things to please you for the sake of pleasing you is a disaster, yes. Then again, the fact you're giving him advice on how best to bend over backwards says a lot about your philosophy towards dating.
Not an attitude towards dating, an attitude towards life. Bending over backwards is the best way to have a fun trip/weekend/whatever. If you want to live a comfortable life - that's fine, but best not start 'til we're past the age of 40, ok? ^__^
For the record i know what you meant; that she does some occasional cleaning and cooking doesn't rule out him doing it as well and the scenario you're afraid of is that he'll end up doing everything just to please her. It's just a poor choice of words though, you'll have to admit. For so long that has been considered 'a woman's job' and any man who does housework is 'whipped'. Should have went with something like 'if you want her to drive you somewhere' or something instead
I don't think it was a poor choice of words. My room is kind of dirty and I'm hungry so I'd rather have help with that rather than get commuted somewhere :D. I'm not going to bend over backwards and pretend I'd rather a girl chaffeur me for the sake of pleasing some retarded propagandist feminist movement that makes no sense. Especially seeing how the culinary world has long been dominated by men, the vacuum cleaner was invented by a man, and the dishwasher was invented by a man. Then again, I guess it's such a horrible thing to ever remind people that women were cooking and cleaning while men were toiling in coal mines and factories or fighting on the front lines.
But let's not make this into a debate over feminism.
@StorkHwaiting: You are intense! D= don't hurt me! D=
I meant it as a wakeup call to the OP really. And I fully admit to the exaggeration to the point of having it creepy. But I hope you don't pepper spray us.
I've always been a creeper but I do mean my point though. Playing with her hand will get him nowhere.
I'm not saying that it'll get him intimate with her. But it sure prods the ball down the slope if he does that. Sure there are other ways but I think the OP is worried on what lines to open with and lacing fingers on it's own is a powerful opening BO because of the message it delivers.
The subtle bits of body language can get a person pretty far in life imo. I won't speak for everyone but I know it helps me.
But that being said if every girl could be won over with charm and impressing her we'd be living in an ideal world. And you, me and the OP don't. That's why he's been there for so long. I feel his pain of just being stuck there and I think for every guy that's been stuck there, they deserve better. Maybe not a relationship, no one is owed a relationship, they earn it and if the OP has earned it I'll pour him a beer cause it's time to celebrate. But everyone at least deserves a clear understanding of what's happening in their lives.
And it sounded to some of us he needed a trigger to pull in her head to get that gun of understanding in her head to fire him the bullets. So I'm just giving him my idea on what handgrip to use to pull that trigger.
On August 01 2011 03:42 SockMonkey wrote: @StorkHwaiting: You are intense! D= don't hurt me! D=
I meant it as a wakeup call to the OP really. And I fully admit to the exaggeration to the point of having it creepy. But I hope you don't pepper spray us.
I've always been a creeper but I do mean my point though. Playing with her hand will get him nowhere.
I'm not saying that it'll get him intimate with her. But it sure prods the ball down the slope if he does that. Sure there are other ways but I think the OP is worried on what lines to open with and lacing fingers on it's own is a powerful opening BO because of the message it delivers.
The subtle bits of body language can get a person pretty far in life imo. I won't speak for everyone but I know it helps me.
But that being said if every girl could be won over with charm and impressing her we'd be living in an ideal world. And you, me and the OP don't. That's why he's been there for so long. I feel his pain of just being stuck there and I think for every guy that's been stuck there, they deserve better. Maybe not a relationship, no one is owed a relationship, they earn it and if the OP has earned it I'll pour him a beer cause it's time to celebrate. But everyone at least deserves a clear understanding of what's happening in their lives.
And it sounded to some of us he needed a trigger to pull in her head to get that gun of understanding in her head to fire him the bullets. So I'm just giving him my idea on what handgrip to use to pull that trigger.
That makes sense and is fair to say. I guess I'm just in the opposite camp of trying to convince the OP to move on. And sorry again for being harsh. I should be more openminded. Really did just sort of astound me that people would think so analytically about something that seems instinctual.
On July 31 2011 08:33 FFGenerations wrote: so to actually be attractive i need to stop quietly (or as i see it cleverly) brooding and instead meet any issues head on.
This is a great perspective. One small problem....
i did reach for her hand at a random time just an hour ago and she let me play with it while she talked.
...YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW IT!
Seriously, this makes me want to flip a table (like that stupid text meme).
What you NEED to do: grow a pair or freakin balls and tell her!
What you SHOULDN'T do: all this cutesy crap, posting on TL (when you could be telling her), and thinking.
Seriously, stop thinking. There is little thinking required. Just freakin do it. Do yourself a favor, and do everyone else giving you decent advice in this thread a favor......
Hey, I think what you need to do is to be more bold. By bold I don't mean take more risks - but think about acting 'strong'. There's that Bible quote, "fear drives out love". If you are feeling fear, then what that is saying to her is that if you were to one day get married, and your kid was getting bullied, then if you show her now that you're a 'wussy' she's not going to be able to look at you and see a strong father who can protect the family. You have to act like a 'man'. If you act like a boy, then she won't be romantically attracted to you.
So you don't need to escalate. You need to change your attitude into one of a strong Russian bear's. After you do that, once she starts to notice that you're brave and strong, she will naturally gravitate her ass towards your penis and the escalation will happen naturally. If you want more advice feel free to PM me for my e-mail address, I charge $30 per e-mail for my coaching.
On August 01 2011 22:24 Discretionary Duck wrote: Hey, I think what you need to do is to be more bold. By bold I don't mean take more risks - but think about acting 'strong'. There's that Bible quote, "fear drives out love". If you are feeling fear, then what that is saying to her is that if you were to one day get married, and your kid was getting bullied, then if you show her now that you're a 'wussy' she's not going to be able to look at you and see a strong father who can protect the family. You have to act like a 'man'. If you act like a boy, then she won't be romantically attracted to you.
So you don't need to escalate. You need to change your attitude into one of a strong Russian bear's. After you do that, once she starts to notice that you're brave and strong, she will naturally gravitate her ass towards your penis and the escalation will happen naturally. If you want more advice feel free to PM me for my e-mail address, I charge $30 per e-mail for my coaching.
Roflmao gravitate her ass towards your penis. Such a great line.
Its all been said, but this ship has almost certainly sailed. I've never known a girl to date the guy who's brooded over her for years, you're severely friend zoned, and all these mixed messages that you think she's giving aren't really there.
That said, there's still a chance, you just need to completly change your approach. You need to decide if you want to continue loving this girl in secret, to make a move at the risk of ruining your friendship or to get over her and accept that you will only ever be friends. 2 of the 3 options are correct. Also every moment you continue down the first path, it gets less likely that you will ever be more than friends.
I think your problem op is that you think too much, in general thinking doesn't get you anywhere with women, especcially when you think as much as you do. You need to forget that you've secretly wanted this girl for years, because I can tell you right now that if she finds out you have she is going to be pretty creeped out. The approach you want to go for is that you are seeing her differently now, and for this to work you need to make her see you different too. If you come across as such a thinker with her as you do here that might not be so hard.
What you need to do is just do fun things with her, take charge and be spontaneous, I like the idea of the exploring with a picnic. I know its hard to tell somone to stop thinking and at the same time want them to come up with spontaneous ideas, but it should become easier once you start. The taking charge thing is important too, you've probably been following her lead for years, so don't ask her if she wants to do something with you. Its for me hard to explain, but its more you inviting her along ("Lets do xyz" not "Do you want to do xyz with me?". Doing this might allow you a second shot at her, but this time don't plan and wait for the moment to make a move because the perfect moment will never come to you.
I don't think the cutesy moves will work either, it gives off the 'I've always liked you, but never had the balls to let you know' vibe which, while true, is definetly not something she should know.
dude, you are worse than a friend-zoned guy , you are more like her gay friend, even if you arent.
that should enrage you , and give you the courage to be more bold.
show you are interested in her, say compliments to her, "you look sexy with that skirt", and if you are gonna play with her hands you better make it clear, you want to kiss her (you dont have to say anithing just go 90% more close to her face but dont kiss her, let her do the 10% ) , otherwise dont play with her hands or hair.
On August 02 2011 06:22 insanet wrote: dude, you are worse than a friend-zoned guy , you are more like her gay friend, even if you arent.
that should enrage you , and give you the courage to be more bold.
show you are interested in her, say compliments to her, "you look sexy with that skirt", and if you are gonna play with her hands you better make it clear, you want to kiss her (you dont have to say anithing just go 90% more close to her face but dont kiss her, let her do the 10% ) , otherwise dont play with her hands or hair.
But yeah, seriously dude, go to www.doubleyourdating.com and read some of the articles there and sign up to the dating-tips newsletter, for example this one:
“3 Things Women Hate About Men”
Learn the 3 Things Women Hate About Men and How to Avoid Being the Single Guy That Women Hate
Three Things Women Hate Most About Single Guys
By David DeAngelo
There are a few particular things that REALLY annoy single, attractive women.
One of the reasons that these things annoy women is because they're DEAL KILLERS.
A woman can like everything about you, but if you do these things (or even ONE of these things), it can DESTROY your chances of success.
Here are three of the BIG things that single women hate:
Giving Up Your Status In Exchange For Her Attention And Approval
If I had to describe the one single thing that both annoys women and DESTROYS a guy's chances, it would be this.
It has taken me a long time to see this particular pattern, but it's EVERYWHERE.
Men, in effect, say “Hi, I want your approval and attention. I'm willing to let YOU be the one who's in control… and let YOU call the shots… and do anything to please YOU… if you'll give me your attention and approval”.
But the problem is that women DON'T WANT you to give up your status and “ manliness”.
Women aren't ATTRACTED to men who act weak and tentative.
Women secretly HATE IT when a guy does something to demonstrate that he'll give away his power in return for approval.
THEY HATE IT!
I could literally write an entire book on this one single concept.
Take a few minutes to think this one over, and maybe write down the ways that you make this mistake with women.
More importantly, think about how you're going to STOP DOING IT IMMEDIATELY.
Women secretly HATE IT when a guy does something to demonstrate that he'll give away his power in return for approval.
Being Needy, Clingy, And Insecure
When one person “clings” to another person “psychologically”, the person who is being “clinged to” RESENTS and REJECTS the needy, clingy emotional parasite…
This is WUSS behavior at its worst.
If a guy is on the phone with a girl he just met, and she says “Hey, I have to go”, he might say “Aw, well… um …OK. Um, will you call me when you get home? ”
And an even worse example is a guy who is so emotionally insecure that he actually ASKS a woman to tell him that he's nice, fun, interesting, etc.
“Do you think I'm interesting? ”
“Do you think we could ever have a relationship? ”
“Am I your type? ”
Women HATE this stuff. It makes them shiver with the heebie-jeebies. It makes them want to RUN AWAY.
Not Understanding Attraction
This is a BIGGIE.
Women can INSTANTLY FEEL IT when they're with a guy who “gets it”.
Women know very quickly if they're talking to a guy who understands himself and women… and who enjoys creating and building sexual tension.
Women know if a guy speaks the SECRET LANGUAGE of “Sexual Communication”.
If he doesn't, then she stops all communication on that level.
If he does, then it continues.
ATTRACTION Isn't A Choice.
Attraction is an emotional and physical RESPONSE… and you can't “convince” a woman to feel it with logic, gifts, and NICENESS. Three Things Women Hate Most About Single Guys
Attraction is the result of a woman meeting a man who understands how attraction works… and who knows what to do in each specific situation to progress to the next level.
The PROBLEM with ATTRACTION, and with success with women in general is that the things you need to DO to be successful are NOT OBVIOUS.
They're “counter intuitive”, in many cases.
In other words, they're the OPPOSITE of what you'd THINK would make sense.
You have to do things like CREATE TENSION… stop doing something that she likes… give her time to miss you… etc.
Now that I've shared these three mistakes, you need the next piece of the puzzle. You need to get an education on how attraction works for women… and the RIGHT things to do up front to give her those emotional/physical feelings inside.
As educational as this has been, this is only the beginning.
If you're starting to realize how important it is to get this area of your life handled, then I recommend you make a commitment and take your education to a WORLD CLASS level.
And what's the best way to do that?
Well, I've spent the last several years of my life figuring out exactly what does and doesn't work with women.
I figured this stuff out for MYSELF… and then I took what I've learned and put it all together to help others learn as well.
“My Double Your Dating eBook” represents THOUSANDS of hours of research, testing, getting to know guys who were successful with women, and generally organizing every level of this knowledge into an easy-to-understand system that ANY guy can use to increase his success with women and dating.
u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
the thing that really gets to me (when im down) is that you need to do these "manly attractive" qualities in order to be friends with some girls - if she isnt attracted to you (and she doesnt find you rediculously interesting/funny - and that cant happen 24/7 unless you're some sort of genius) then she will get stroppy and annoyed about it.
you guys relate to this bit at all?
idk maybe it really is a big problem with me (not giving enough feedback so its like talking to a brick wall). i just need to be more alert and forming opinions properly and voicing them properly
Let me give you straight-up advice - cut off all God damn contact with her for the next two months. GET YOUR FUCKING GAME ON TRACK. Your post shows you still suck at it and you'll do more damage than good if you continue spending time with her.
Don't be afraid that if you cut off contact she'll go jump on another guy's dick. Even if she does, chicks don't value 'commitment' and loyalty like guys do... When a guy says something like: "I'll marry you forever" he fucking means it. When a girl says it, she means: "I'll marry you forever... Until someone else comes along or if you start acting like a beta pussy. Then I'll divorce your ass."
You need to get the fuck out. You've got no game. The fact you need to overthink things to this extent is evidence of this. You're fucking it up and you'll regret it if you don't cut things off now.
By the way, don't even try to explain it to her. Just stop calling, texting, etc. Just disappear. If you're alpha enough in two months to six months' time, then it won't matter. Chicks are simplistic. She won't be like: "Where were you for the last x months." She'll just be overjoyed with your manly presence in her life her hormones will take over and you can start the thrusting.
dude read the fucking thread please. for a start im in another country on a holiday staying with her. yeah i know my "game" sucks, theres no better practice than being around a girl like this. idk if shes completely lost hope in me but i wanna take every opportunity to try to do otherwise
On August 02 2011 06:51 FFGenerations wrote: u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
Err, you're getting a little fanatical here. A great deal of the time with women, you're better off saying nothing at all. Except of course when you're telling her what to do. But yeah, less is more when it comes to women. You seem to have a more unique problem of being horribly indecisive. In which case, yes, this would probably help you a lot. But if I said everything as soon as it came to mind to my girl it would probably be an epic disaster.
haha StorkHwaiting, i think that being so inward-thinking and indecisive means i do have that split second to decide whether or not im going to say/do something - as long as i DO IT WHEN I WANT TO
i think with me i have this rediculous confusing feeling of "wanting to do something but still not doing it".
but its also about communicating when im not sure about something. i have a tendency, when im not sure about something, to overthink and overthink and think reeeal seriously about it, and then say pretty much nothing coz i couldnt come to a solid conclusion.
i treat everything like a fucking life-decision. "are you hot?" "mm...quite hot...been hotter...sweating a bit...but my hands are in the shade...over-all, im not quite sure. what do you think?"
Ah okay. Maybe work on an internal philosophy/prioritization so that when things come up you don't have to even think or hesitate. You just decisively act. I think that's what women want more than just going for it every time.
yeah, requires awareness and practice (like all things)
its a challenge, but thats why a lot of people never manage to change themselves
personally i believe ive come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl, its annoying i have to fuck up right now but im glad we're talking about it (me and her) and i still have hope in myself even if she doesnt (can only change her opinion by proving it to her and thats what i intend to do )
still, i wish she wasnt so hard up on it, but thats life. if you wanna cash the cheque you gotta put the hours in
On August 02 2011 06:51 FFGenerations wrote: u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
problem being ive been learning the "hard way" for 4 years and still fucking blow asshole (tho the improvement has been immense IMO but that only goes to show how fucking bad i used to be)
Now I don't have the time to read 6 pages, so this question might have already been answered.
Are you 100% confident that when you think she's showing affection, that she really is? One of my friends would hug my arm when we're standing around waiting for a movie to start seating, that kind of stuff. It's not affection, we're friendzone friends, but it sure seems like it.
i dont wanna go into personal side of her but im pretty sure there is/can be attraction from her when im doing shit right. that question (and my OP) is out of date now sadly however haha
basically if you act attractive then you can attract any girl , its not really a question of "does she like me" but "am i doing it right" :/
u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things
You're in the room next to her, right? The way I see this statement is;
"I want you to barge in my room, say that I'm right and that you (FFG) should be more leading. That's why you're going to look up a good restaurant, a great movie and drag me there."
On August 02 2011 08:26 FFGenerations wrote: i dont wanna go into personal side of her but im pretty sure there is/can be attraction from her when im doing shit right. that question (and my OP) is out of date now sadly however haha
basically if you act attractive then you can attract any girl , its not really a question of "does she like me" but "am i doing it right" :/
OMG FF come on man you're over-thinking this shit. This is not physics, you don't calculate shit like this. How hard is it to take control. BE ALPHA DUDE ITS NOT HARD.
I think I know what your problem is. You're way too concerned about this woman's well being and its fuckin with you. Basically you need to care less without actually caring less.
To illustrate what I mean, lets say she comes to you after a really bad day and she tells you her gripes. You dont do any beta male bullshit like console her and tell her its gonna be alright. Let her friends do that. You aspire to be her man. You COMMAND that woman to change her clothes and TELL her you're taking her out. You may or may not tell her that you're doing this to make her feel better but this is the actual reason. When you go out, you show her a good time. Make her laugh alot. You do this right enough times and soon enough she'll be begging(not literally of course) to ride your bone hardcore.
Like I said god knows how many pages ago...BE AN EFFIN MAN for god sakes. GL Friend
On August 02 2011 06:51 FFGenerations wrote: u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
You are doing the all caps thing on purpose right? To make fun of that article? Can't tell.
On August 02 2011 07:01 Discretionary Duck wrote: By the way, don't even try to explain it to her. Just stop calling, texting, etc. Just disappear. If you're alpha enough in two months to six months' time, then it won't matter. Chicks are simplistic. She won't be like: "Where were you for the last x months." She'll just be overjoyed with your manly presence in her life her hormones will take over and you can start the thrusting.
Best advice by far. If your next 20 days don't work out OP, just disappear for 6 months, work out, become a new guy and meet her again. Tell her you just joined Peace Corps or some shit like that. She'll be thinking you're a hero.
I'm with the above. It's just that she's got this mental image of you being such an agreeable guy that's she can't shake the feeling that you're a wimp so you pretty much need to shock her.
@storkhwaiting(I'm sorry bro I'm a meticulous planner full of petty tricks but it's how I get the job done lol)(my own personal bag of choices as well I don't read any PUA stuff at all) So for now I'd go with this general plan. You need to leave on a good note and then maintain minimal contact with her for the time you're gone. I'd call this "every 3 days".
Every 3 days you keep in contact with her. Don't contact her any more often than that. If she starts up a conversation within the 3 days you complete the convo and you disappear for 3 days and on the third day you turn up and say hi. As in no texts no fb messages directly to her nothing at all.
The 3 days thing creates the illusion that you have a life. Even if you don't. Which is why it's amazing when I did it while pursuing my girlfriend she just assumed I was hanging out with 300 other attractive women(it helped that I was pretty close to the 4 who lived next door) all at the same time instead of talking to her. Only after we got together and she complained about it did I tell her I was actually working on my dissertation and courseworks those 3 silent days.
But for now just end it on a good note. If she's getting annoyed with you. Take a day off. Go somewhere on your own and don't text her so much while you're gone. Just inform her and be nice about it.
On paper it sounds like a good idea to spend every waking minute with a friend/girlfriend you really get along with. But every guy here in this forum will nod in agreement when I say everyone needs a breather after awhile.
If you did the switch of being all assertive now, it's going to come across as fake/hostile. She will not appreciate it at all. And you will ruin things. You need the distance to reset things.
On August 02 2011 07:24 FFGenerations wrote: personally i believe ive come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl, its annoying i have to fuck up right now but im glad we're talking about it (me and her) and i still have hope in myself even if she doesnt (can only change her opinion by proving it to her and thats what i intend to do )
still, i wish she wasnt so hard up on it, but thats life. if you wanna cash the cheque you gotta put the hours in
This is a terrible mindset. Please vacate it immediately.
You haven't come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl. You've gone nowhere.
Ever think that maybe she's frustrated because she likes you and you're not decisive enough to do anything about it?
When are you going to understand that nothing is going to happen until you do it?
It sounds like you're waiting for a perfect moment. Spoiler alert - it doesn't exist.
Do you want something to happen? Nothing is going to happen unless you do something. Believe me, if you wait this out and move away then you'll wonder for a long time "what would have happened if I made a move?".
Do yourself, and everyone else here, a favor, will you? David DeAngelo doesn't have the answers - she does. Go ask her about it!
the problem is the kinda "conflict of interests"...wanting to be friends but also wanting to be manly and attractive, which means you cant act so much as you would with a friend (if you arent naturally manly and attractive). you know what i mean ya?
btw she looks a lot like the girl in the video but is actually even hotter haha
On August 02 2011 07:24 FFGenerations wrote: personally i believe ive come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl, its annoying i have to fuck up right now but im glad we're talking about it (me and her) and i still have hope in myself even if she doesnt (can only change her opinion by proving it to her and thats what i intend to do )
still, i wish she wasnt so hard up on it, but thats life. if you wanna cash the cheque you gotta put the hours in
This is a terrible mindset. Please vacate it immediately.
You haven't come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl. You've gone nowhere.
Ever think that maybe she's frustrated because she likes you and you're not decisive enough to do anything about it?
yeah i have felt like this. but right now shes unhappy with my lack of manliness so i have to build that back up again *sigh*. yes, "again"
On August 02 2011 06:51 FFGenerations wrote: u know what today she explained how she was getting annoyed and tired of my company because i havent been taking the iniative and lead in the day to day things. this is a very very typical thing that turns women off like nothing else (not all women though - but this girl especially it seems).
i already knew this to an extent but honestly didnt realise to what extent. she absolutely needs direction (i said "lets go shopping" when i meant "i just wanna browse around randomly and hang out" but she got extremely pissy because she felt like i was just faffing around being indecisive and lame. she hated it when i looked at some clothes but didnt comment enough to her satisfaction (she wants a YES or NO or some strong feedback whereas my general response is to think things over too much).
another example of how this affects us is when i might suggest a movie and then spend 5 minutes saying shit like "mm you might like it because of blah but it does have blah in and the overall tone of the movie is blah and maybe we should watch this other thing instead blah blah". when i really i should just be like "WE WATCHING THIS NOW STFU AND ENJOY"
so these kinda things REALLY and i mean really tick her off and she gets moody and her whole attitude towards me in general becomes very negative, which in turn makes me feel fucked up and because im the classic "conflict-avoider" i just back down and make the situation even worse.
so the major lessons for today kids are that being decisive and leading is way more important than you think - you should ALWAYS be one step ahead of another person and you should ALWAYS be very direct and PRECISE (no faffing around) in anything you do, from buying shit at the shop to knowing when you're going to eat or pick the place to eat.
you should INSTANTLY speak your mind or do whatever comes into you head as soon as you think it. you might think you're very clever and interesting in your head, but no one else fucking knows that unless you shout it out and do it. if she says something that makes you feel like shes pissy, dont hang around wondering and analysing and hoping itll go away. fucking say something - SHE WANTS YOU TO even if she never asks you to. when you dont say something she just thinks "wtf isnt he saying it, he is weak and/or stupid??"
give feedback. all the time. dont fucking overthink everything and spend 10 hours trying to decide whether you like the taste of the ice cream or fancy taking the dog for a walk now or in 30 minutes.
some women are VERY good at doing what they feel like as soon as they think about it and expressing how they feel as soon as they feel it. this makes them natural-born leaders and with that comes an elevated status. if you cant live up to that standard or surpass it then you'll appear unattractive and get poor responses from them. theyll think you are indecisive, poor at communicating, or theyll just think you have an empty head with no opinion or no balls.
i knew all this but i guess i forgot how important or challenging it is with some people. many of my other friends are indecisive and dont really give a fuck about anything, so i get out of practice.
this is why having shit like a car, or inviting a girl to YOUR place rather than going to hers (where you dont know jack shit or even the language) is an immediate bonus. of course, these are superficial things and its great that im able to learn the "hard way" haha.
You are doing the all caps thing on purpose right? To make fun of that article? Can't tell.
no lol, i love d'angelo haha. and i love his caps!
On August 02 2011 07:24 FFGenerations wrote: personally i believe ive come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl, its annoying i have to fuck up right now but im glad we're talking about it (me and her) and i still have hope in myself even if she doesnt (can only change her opinion by proving it to her and thats what i intend to do )
still, i wish she wasnt so hard up on it, but thats life. if you wanna cash the cheque you gotta put the hours in
This is a terrible mindset. Please vacate it immediately.
You haven't come a LONG LONG LONG way with this girl. You've gone nowhere.
Ever think that maybe she's frustrated because she likes you and you're not decisive enough to do anything about it?
yeah i have felt like this. but right now shes unhappy with my lack of manliness so i have to build that back up again *sigh*. yes, "again"
You know what builds that up REAL fast? Being an man and being upfront with your feelings.
If you prefer the day-to-day dynamic approach then you're beyond help. Have fun getting nowhere...
yup ive already kinda done that (yesterday and day before)
from now on im going to try to remember that 1. being manly is above all else (whilst being my cool and considerate self ie not a jackass) 2. act immediately on any feeling or thought i have or thing i feel like i should say or do 3. be more decisive and portray stronger opinions (this will also help with comedy since i can work better with a stronger opinion about something in comedy)