Since I wrote about Dreamhack the last time I guess I'll do it again here. Dreamhack is an experience that every gamer should take part in at least once. It is the Mecca of LANs and is also at present the first class european venue for eSports competition, whether it be Starcraft 2, Quake Live, Counterstrike, HoN or indeed many of the other smaller and sometimes rather odd competitive choices (Angry Birds tournament anyone?). It is a non-stop, bright, loud, caffeine-fueled temple to what makes gaming great and of course, a few of it's not so awesome aspects (dat smell).
It's weird as a part-time SC2 commentator to be involved in events of this size and scope. Most of my daily work and by far the majority of my income focuses on games that aren't Starcraft. An event of this size would often be fodder for coverage, such as Gamescom or Eurogamer was. The other commentators are all full-time, this is their only gig, their only calling. It sometimes think maybe I shouldn't be there, regardless of myself and Apollo's active partnership.
I'm going to be frank about the issues there were in this blog entry because I know Dreamhack is mature and forward enough to understand. They are not the kind of people to get upset if someone points out something they could do better and are highly receptive to feedback. They also know I love em. I would hope as a result, no drama would come of any criticism given and any that does is mostly likely drummed up by people who crave such a thing and would like GLHF magazine to be a real publication for their gaming handbags.
Technical Issues
So myself and Apollo were given the Steelseries Arena, a similar setup to my solo stage in summer. Those who don't know the story of summer, I was, until a few days beforehand, not going to be there. There was no floor space for me to cast on so I was going to do the solostream from home, just like I'd done at DH Winter 2010. Steelseries happened to have spare space after a last minute pullout of their scheduled guests so I agreed to host their WoW event in return for being able to cast my SC2 from there. The SC2 proved a massive draw, especially with only 2 stages available at DH Summer and despite technical issues arising from inappropriate equipment, was a success. This time around we had a similar setup but with less seats, 3 metal benches were provided with around 30 capacity, 20 lower than DH Summer. I'm not really sure why that was the way that it was but it became abundantly clear that would not be enough. As we were also positioned close to the door to Hall C, the amount of standing spectators we had around the stage blocked traffic. Noise was also an issue in that Hall, in more ways than one. Vendors complained that the stage was too loud and we were forced to turn ourselves down several times. This was a problem because we were also battling with the HoN stage right in front of us, which had a superior setup and higher capacity. We also ended up next to the Razer booth which had several rowdy giveaways and some guys that were inexplicably commentating Worms Reloaded. Overall this isn't ideal for anyone. Our PA has to be loud enough for people to hear, obviously and with multiple booths and stages having to compete in a high traffic area, it is a big distraction for casters, vendors and spectators. While we and of course Steelseries benefited from the foot traffic of that Hall, I feel the disadvantages outweighed that. In terms of equipping the stage, we had to start late because we arrived to find desktop microphones rather than headsets, which simply cannot work. I shouldn't really have to explain why that's a bad idea, but eventually we were able to get some head-mounted microphones and all was well. Of the 3 stages, we were also the only one who had to control their own production, including stream management, overlays, ad-rolls, scoreboards, transitions, camera and sound engineering. I tend to do this a lot in my own tournaments, admittedly on equipment I am familiar with so it's not such a big deal but it does add to the stress of the situation, particularly during long casting days and I am very concerned with quality disparity between stages and having to focus on not screwing up observing, casting and producing while doing all 3 at once. I honestly feel that any stage, regardless of size should be assigned a production guy to deal with this stuff and ensure the casters can focus on casting. TheGunRun and Tranceh were able to help out a couple times but the production crew was stretched very thinly indeed. They did their best but had to focus on the Dreamarena and Studio streams.
To kill a caster
Let's talk about the length of the casting sessions. Many remarks were made on the subject of how tired we all looked. A combination of long days with few breaks (many breaks were cut into or sometimes completely eliminated due to game over-run) and most of us either being sick or just getting over sickness did not help. 14 hour days 3 days in a row is tough for anyone. Anyone who thinks casters get the easy job has never tried to cast an event of this size, it is a marathon and both a mental and physical endurance session. It also requires extremely careful vocal management. Overdo it in just one game and you can blow your voice out for the rest of the event. As Tasteless has said before (and he is right), casting for long periods of time with a strong voice requires the use of the diaphragm. The voice must come from deep down and the least strain possible put on your lungs and throat. We were all really beat up after the first and second days and welcomed the way the finals were setup which gave us all a chance to rest and enjoy some high class Starcraft. It is however impossible not to be enthusiastic with all the support from the crowd. All of us had scheduled signing sessions and all of us ran out of time before we go to everyone. It's impossible to be upset with anything at all when people are queueing up to speak to you. Every caster was visibly humbled by the outpouring of <3 from the people at Dreamhack. I was surprised we even had a queue tbh. Myself and Apollo had been signing and doing photos at our stage whenever we had freetime. Doing those events gives you a very different perspective on how people really act. It's easy to focus on the negativity when it's displayed online but in reality the silent, happy majority are the ones that make everything worthwhile and at events like this, you get to meet them. This went a tad off-topic but what I will say is I firmly believe tournaments need to be careful with the hours they put on casters, because it can degrade the quality of the performance. If you want a really well presented tournament, you have to make sure your casters are 100% all the time, because they are the ones responsible for the presentation. Good games can be ruined by bad casting, bad games can be saved by good casting. I do not wish to speak for the other casters at that would be inappropriate and honestly, I don't need to, the fatigue was obvious to everyone. I often say that sportscasters would not be able to survive doing what we do and after this weekend I can safely say that I'm right.
Hurting ESPORTS
Rise of Heroes
I was a little disappointed honestly to see the reaction of folks to the small Korean attendance to Dreamhack this year. I've never believed that Koreans are required for a good tournament and with European players beating Koreans on a regular basis as well as exhibiting a wide variety of interesting playstyles, I believe an exciting and dynamic tournament is driven primarily by European involvement. I can absolutely understand the desire to see top-tier play but as a Starcraft fan, I really do not need to see the absolute best 100% of the time, anymore than as a football fan I would only wish to watch Manchester United for skill rather than simply local support (not saying they are the best, merely an example). Throwing half of Code S at a tournament doesn't make it a good tournament, in my opinion, stories make a tournament great and stories are driven by people. In a sport played in a 1v1 scenario, I feel personalities are what drives the entertainment and emotional value of a tournament. When I care about a player because I know something about him, I become emotionally invested in his performance, a vital aspect of any broadcast sport. I get excited when I cast Sheth for instance because he is an identifiable personality as well as an incredibly talented player. There were also other storylines going on, Naama rising from a desolate year to place highly in the tournament he won a year ago. My concern was not for his playstyle or his level of skill but because his previous triumph added an interesting dynamic to the way the tournament played out. The finals were the best example of this and could not have gone better if they were scripted to be so. It was true Jedi vs Sith action, it was Skywalker vs Vader, hell even the lightsabre colours were accurate (if we go by Episode 5 rather than 6 at any rate). PuMa brought out his indestructable Deathstar build, only to have Hero's plucky X-wing pilot torpedo that fucker into oblivion. Game 6 was won by a gutsy yet unpopular all-in, putting the final game on a knife-edge and turning PuMa into the villain to Hero's... well hero. The guy who has never won a major tournament finally triumphs and enters the stage to deafening applause and adoration. Undoubtedly the skill on display was phenomenal but tell me, was that final good because the players were Korean or because of the story of those players? I'm going to go with the latter on that one. Koreans are not required to make a good tournament, the standards that some posters seem to hold for players are ludicriously high (to the point where anyone who isn't Nestea/MVP is terrible) and honestly, I wish we could just chill out and watch some great Starcraft. Drama comes from imperfection more than it does from perfection. Are you not entertained?
I'd like to talk about the casting couch for a moment. I should not have been there. While in-between games was awesome to chill out with the guys, joke around and watch some SC2, the difference between the couch on camera and the couch off was massive. Several of us said that we'd love what we said on the couch during the games to be like a directors commentary, an alternate stream or some kind of bonus because I think people would have enjoyed (as well as have been a little offended) by the stuff we said. However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion). In this case, I think 3 is the magic number. The couch itself though is a stellar idea and was otherwise well executed (with the exception of it being a tad unstable, causing Day9 to fall backwards off the stage off camera at one point. What is it with Sean and malicious chairs anyway, he seems to have the worst luck in that regard. Where possible, every tournament should implement the couch, it gives vital time to the casters to prepare mentally and take a rest before the next game, it easily masks preparation time and potential delays as well as a much more indepth view of the game from multiple perspectives rather than just 2. Do it.
As regards to the hosting, everythings pretty much already been said. There have been some issues in previous tournaments with inappropriate hosts who often through no fault of their own simply don't fit. I'd like to express my interest in hosting future tournaments and being responsible for player introductions and initial crowd-warming. Hopefully the impromptu hosting at the request of the actual host didn't annoy too many of you, I didn't really have a choice at that point but to play along and roast the guy a little. I felt sorry for him up there honestly, I don't know what the issues were, perhaps it was inexperience or something went wrong with his preparation, but he was clearly not suited to the task. Turning him and his chosen game into a figure of fun wasn't planned, well the entire thing wasn't planned but I hope it at least made him something of a sympathetic figure to the crowd, not sure if that was the case.
Beauty (right) and the Beast (left)
A long way to go
So to turn to the matter of personal criticism. I try to take as much feedback as I can after each event and had the pleasure of once again consulting with the other casters and players (many of whom came to watch the casts due to the well organised schedule which gave them plenty of time to do so) on what to do better. I focussed primarily on camera control this time around and not missing drops/action. As far as I am aware I missed 2 drops/battles, the first of which was also missed by TLO (that's how crazy a drop it was) and the other was at the very end of PuMa vs Nightend. While that battle only occured for 2 seconds before the GG (we were focussed on the battle in the main), it still pisses me off that it wasn't displayed. I think the camera control was good though for the most part, I used Smart Camera Pan and a lot of unit/building follow to get smooth movement, though I had issues during the finals because it wasn't my mouse and the sensitivity was out of whack. Using hotkeys to snap to my co-casters vision was also useful and it's something we discussed beforehand to make sure we nail every drop and minor skirmish.
For the most part I think we interacted as a pair well and after doing 3 tournaments this month we are on good form, despite the illness we've both had to greater and lesser extents. There are times when I think it can be perceived that I'm ignoring Apollo's points, more often than not it's simply because his explanation is so thorough and accurate that I have no followup, though I'm starting to get better with being able to extrapolate his analysis with either a reinterpretation which is less technical for the more casual fans, a joke or an original theory of my own. Game knowledge building is still a slow process that is requiring a lot of work but I'm not really making the stupid mistakes I used to, at least not that I've noticed or that anyone seems able to point out specifically. Practice is still required and plenty of that will continue to happen with various engagements booked for the both of us. I think laddering more is helping, I used to hate playing but since I switched to Zerg I'm enjoying the game again and it also gives me an appreciation of the various macro mechanics and how important various things are which I didn't really have before. There's a lot of work to do though and it's especially challenging to do so when Starcraft is very much part-time for me. I feel a more sceptical eye is cast toward my casting as a result of not being full-time Starcraft but I don't think that's unfair and I will just have to try harder to win over my sceptics.
Setting the BarCraft
I don't think there is any real doubt in my mind that Dreamhack just set the bar for arena-based eSports events. That is how sports should feel. It's a little unfortunate that the camera angles made the place feel less occupied than it really was. There were actually A TON of people on much higher rows at the back than the camera showed and it tended to focus on the extreme left and right top rows that weren't in use since they couldn't see the screen. The crowd was enormous, loud and enthusiastic, the lighting and use of music was ideal. Music is such an underrated thing when it comes to eSports events. It is an ideal crowdwarmer, it tends to cause spontaneous rhymic clapping and chanting in time to the beat, far as I'm concerned all players should have musical intros of some description, hell go one better and go as far as WWE, with short video intros for the players, get some pyrotechnics going, go crazy. "But it's not professional/it's cheesy!" some may cry, "how dare you compare our treasured eSport to wrestling!". Guys, you watch a game with giant tanks, fat floating space octopus and the machines from War of the Worlds, you're already occupying an entire universe of cheesy nonsense, embrace it. Some technical slipups did happen in terms of camera panning and production mics being left on (Tastosis made a remark that the casters mics were still on, this was not the case unless we spontaneously learned how to speak fluent Swedish) but that's easily tightened up for next time and you gotta give em credit for pulling something of that scale off with it being the first time in that venue.
ESPORTS, serious business
A special mention must go to dApollo. It takes a strong will to cast for 14 hour days, it takes a superhuman will to do so through sickness and yet still nail the analysis time and again. This man is the most talented, knowledgeable and hardworking analyst in Europe, respect him.
Alright folks that's me done, taking a week in Stockholm to chill. Thanks to Dreamhack for a stellar event, the staff for all their hardwork, my colleagues in casting and partners in crime for their astonishing presentations and all the fans for their continued support. Congratulations to Hero on a well deserved win and on the many other players whose exploits may not have received as much adoration but deserved merit and respect. See you next yea
Before reading any of this, you did a great job at Dreamhack TB and Apollo, even with Apollo being sick the cast was simply epic! I am now going to enjoy reading this, thanks again guys.
Thank you for your exceptional work Totalbiscuit, and all the other great casters. Saw you at the hotel after the arena but didn't get a chance to thank you in person ^^
My biggest complaint, as someone who was there, is that (watching the VODS) the arena didn't look or sound nearly as impressive. It was INSANE and I wish it was really visible on the stream as it was for us there. Oh well, until next time! =D
Absolutely fair write-up, can't disagree on any point. I highly respect people like you who can appraise their own work with such clarity, being your own critic in a very accurate manner.
Great post, and something the DH crew should take into consideration next DH. Also good that it ended in a good note, because it really was a stellar event, setting the bar for MSL, IPL and so on. And im not really worried - im sure its gonna be even better next time around!
I think your game knowledge has much improved and I enjoy your casting with Apollo very much. You absolutely deserve to have a spot up there with the big names like Tasteosis and Day 9. Keep doing what you're doing.
I know how it is to do three 14 hour days in a row with little sleep away from home (although I was doing manual labour, not casting) and it is extremely tiring. I was delirious by the evenings so well done to you guys for keeping up the quality!
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself.
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself
I am not legit as an analyst, but have never claimed to be one to begin with. There is more to public speaking than just game knowledge.
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself
I think you're trying to read bewteen the lines but there's nothing actually there. Take that at face value. He is saying as far as talking about the games after the fact he had nothing to add that could not have been said by them because he is not a full time caster.
I think you did an awesome job there and your casting with Apollo just gets better and better.
I agree with the comments about people on the couch but I think you undervalue yourself, of course your supposed to be there, you are a prominent figure in this community, like it or not.
All in all it was top notch and I look forward to seeing you do more soon!
Five stars, watching an event of the magnitude for a few hours on stream really does not do it justice. It is nice to have the people involved give a good report of what's going on. Adding a small opinion, the way the streams were set up, it seems like the casters were doomed to run the marathon since each caster duo had their own stream. Any breaks for the casters would just cause a huge downtime on any one stream, in the future I would like to see more casters than streams.
And Happy vs ToD was so bad, it even made mass nukes boring.
Good job and thanks for sharing, I appreciate the love and effort you put behind eSports.
dApollo never gets enough love. He was amazing this DreamHack, and one hell of a sick baller to be able to get through it all like that without fault.
You're right about pretty much everything, TB, and I don't have much to add. This DreamHack wasn't quite as well-produced as the last one (which was just... phenomenal, I mean good GOD that bar was just too bloody high), but it was still an amazingly fun event. HerO's amazing run (hyped to hell after his performance at MLG) made me so freaking happy. You are absolutely right; that story is so much more interesting than their nationality. I consider HerO a Liquid player, an amazing young Protoss with some fantastic games ahead of him... not "a korean". His journey has been so inspiring.
However (and this is the pettiest gripe I've ever indulged in, but fuck it), the heartbeat sensors were pointless gimmicky bullshit. I was trying to enjoy the show, the ebb and flow of the game, listening to the casters analyse the play and hype it up, and suddenly I'm taken out of that moment as the casters bring attention to someone's bodily function.
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself
I am not legit as an analyst, but have never claimed to be one to begin with. There is more to public speaking than just game knowledge.
True, I got your point better now. Still the couch thing was awesome !
Several of us said that we'd love what we said on the couch during the games to be like a directors commentary, an alternate stream or some kind of bonus because I think people would have enjoyed (as well as have been a little offended) by the stuff we said.
That would be incredibly awesome, but I think I'd rather listen to regular commentary during the games. Would be fantastic to be able to listen to afterwards though.
Thanks for your incredibly hard work John, your commentary has improved to the point of you being up there as a favorite of mine. Looking forward to seeing you commentate at more events, maybe some hosting as well!
Several of us said that we'd love what we said on the couch during the games to be like a directors commentary, an alternate stream or some kind of bonus because I think people would have enjoyed (as well as have been a little offended) by the stuff we said.
That would be incredibly awesome, but I think I'd rather listen to regular commentary during the games. Would be fantastic to be able to listen to afterwards though.!
Yeah, I'd like to see that (with consent from the casters ofc, bearing in mind we can and do say shit we wouldn't usually on camera) added as a commentary track for a VoD, like how you get directors commentary on DVDs. You watch the movie first then watch the alternate commentary for a different perspective.
You were awesome! I was there at your arena a lot of times and it was indeed a little to small and placed incorrect imho. I mean within like 1 hour the camera was displaced (is that a word?) because of people walking against it. It was funny that your cameraman wasn't listening while you were calling his name and I had to ask him to help you, but it's something that probably makes you even more stressy. Also that first drop that you missed, as TLO was watching the replay afterwards you could see that the protoss player also didn't really notice the drop since he lost his nexus to such few units. Also it was a drop that was happening while the main battle occured, i mean the main battle should have had priority anyway.
I wanna thank you for being on DreamHack. It was awesome to meet you and I loved your castign with d'apollo and TLO!
Btw, where were you when TLO and Sheth casted that game, since they said you disappeart?
A great read. I really enjoyed dreamhack and all of the casters.
I have also been thinking about how long you guys are casting for though, during tournament. Anyone thats ever worked a 10+ shift knows that you always return home completely drained and most of us dont have jobs where we have to keep constant attention while looking somewhat decent infront of a crowd. I would have thought that the tournaments themselves would have realized by now that you cannot work a person for that long and expect a flawless product. From here on I suggest that more casters be used, if you have three streams that will air 6-8 Bo3's a day, you need at least 2 caster teams per stream/day. Ok, if you want to be cheap, you could form 3man teams and using a rotation system but the product will obviously suffer from this.
Also, I think people zone in too much on this in depth analysis that all casters/commentators are suppose to be able to give. I have enjoyed plenty of games from TB solo casting without any super deep analysis but on the other side some not-to-be-mentioned casters have ruined a few by trying to do analysis they were not capable of.
All in all, a great tournament and a superb effort! Thanks a ton! /Gnarfle
Awesome write-up TB, very insightful and interesting.
And once again, don't let yourself be fooled by the negativity on Reddit/YT/TL/Whatever. The internet is what it is, and the most vocal people are all too often the one not civilized enough to speak rather than yell .
On November 29 2011 02:15 Roberi wrote: Thanks for your incredibly hard work John, your commentary has improved to the point of you being up there as a favorite of mine. Looking forward to seeing you commentate at more events, maybe some hosting as well!
Btw just realized this is the first time i heard/read your real name and I have like watched all your SC-casting
Excellent write-up well done totalbiscuit. I think you actually contributed a lot to the casting and one thing I love while watching you is the fact that you sort of give an other more wider perspective on the games.
If you look at day9 and apollo they go very deeply into detail very often. For a person who's not that familiar with starcraft this could ofc be a negative thing. Although ofc they contribute just as much they are also great casters...
I liked the couch idea but as you have said you couldn't really add to the analysis and thus looked a little uncomfortable. Perhaps you could have done like a 'Gary Lineker' role on MOTD and just ask the other casters questions and reintroduce the casters/pump up the crowd for the next match when the next match is ready. You would make a great host as well with that epic voice of yours, you really got the crowd going.
Btw, where were you when TLO and Sheth casted that game, since they said you disappeart?
There was a miscommunication. We were scheduled (or so we thought) for 3 RO16 BO3s, then 1 hour lunch and then 2 hours signing before going direct to the arena for briefing and setup. In reality, we were supposed to cast 4 BO3s and go direct into signing with no break. I think someone goofed the schedule there since that would have not been an ideal arrangement at all. Sheth and TLO jumped in when the admins realised there were no casters available.
I liked the couch idea but as you have said you couldn't really add to the analysis and thus looked a little uncomfortable. Perhaps you could have done like a 'Gary Lineker' role on MOTD and just ask the other casters questions and reintroduce the casters/pump up the crowd for the next match when the next match is ready. You would make a great host as well with that epic voice of yours, you really got the crowd going.
This is what I'd like to do yes, that would make sense. As it stood, the role fell to Day9 and Tasteless, who were both kind enough to throw me a pity-ball every now and again so I could say some inane bullshit.
TB you are a great guy, nice deep thought resumée. Between the lines I think it displays a little over-awareness to critiscism and weaknesses but frankly you have more than enough reason to be confident about yourself. In terms of using your voice professionally, enterteining people and expert knowledge on production you set standards rather than catch up to other casters in the SC2 universe. And it's great to see you as a team with Apollo, who fully deserves your respect as an SC2 mastermind. There's nothing more charming than seeing you two fullheartedly enjoying SC2 games and presenting them to us in british accent =)
Thank you for the great write up and wonderful job at Dreamhack. See you next time you're in Finland (again).
On November 29 2011 02:21 betaman wrote: I liked the couch idea but as you have said you couldn't really add to the analysis and thus looked a little uncomfortable. Perhaps you could have done like a 'Gary Lineker' role on MOTD and just ask the other casters questions and reintroduce the casters/pump up the crowd for the next match when the next match is ready. You would make a great host as well with that epic voice of yours, you really got the crowd going.
Agreed - I do think TB would make an excellent emcee.
Fantastic writeup, sums up what i felt as well being in the arena. Keep doing what you are doing and thanks for stepping in for tejbz, you can't fault him for trying but he wasn't the best fit :/
A great write up about DHW, and hopefully they'll take the critisims and try to work on them, which i'm sure they will.
I also agree with you about the 'caster couch', it did seem when you were there that you looked kind of awkward in a way, and yes its quite probably due to your analytical knowledge. However i started watching you, and starcraft, in DHS, and i've seen you come a long way since then, your analysis has improved a hell of a lot, and for somebody only doing it part-time, it's impressive, and i honestly do not think many other people could do the same in this position.
Hope you enjoy your holiday, with what you've been doing this past month, you deserve it, and hopefully see you in an MLG soon!
I watched you live a lot during DH and you and apollo did an amazing job. Shame the place you casted at wasn't the greatest (but the biggest upset of the whole tournament was that your hat was gone, know it was because of the headset not allowing it but still made me sad.)
You really did impress me TB and I hope you and apollo continue to cast together.
Good read TB, I really dont see why you put yourself down so much.. I think you did very well this weekend and your a handsome fella, most definitely not a " beast "
I have to say at first I was a bit skeptical about the casting couch idea thinking it was going to be some cheesy american talk-show thing. Then I realized, just as you said, that it takes the pressure off the main casters so they can prepare for the next game and for the players so they can prepare. Even though the thumbs up-crowd game was pretty nice a better signal for when the players are ready should be implemented for the next tournament. Also I can imagine that it was enjoyable for you casters as well, sitting there and casually chatting about the game. From a spectator's point of view, it certainly looked like you were having fun off camera.
As many others said the crowd was awesome and the vods does not do it justice, neither noise or count-wise. However I need to rage against that stupid "Hellooooo" game that was going on (The hello game was done a lot in the LAN areas, basically one guy shout HELLO and the rest are supposed to respond). Doing during a cast is IMO totally disrespectful and I felt so embarrassed as a swede.
I do agree that there were a couple of production slip-ups. Microphones not turned on (or turned on when they were not supposed to), bad camera placement causing people to block the view, bad camera switches, lights not being turned on when on camera etc. The most annoying one from a spectators point of view though was when they forgot to turn off the audience flood-lights (that turned on during cheers) so you were trying to watch the screen with very bright lights in your eyes
I think you did a splendid job introducing the players and saving the entire introduction from that so-called host. The fluent Swedish spoken was btw: "Oh really? I didn't prepare at all" yeah... we could tell.. I have no doubt that you would make an excellent host for any future dreamhack event. Awesome job pumping up the crowds
Wow, this write-up just reeks of quality, 5/5. Also, very well done, I was pleasantly surprised of how much you have improved as a caster lately and your camera work is just top notch. Theres usually small things with every casters camera that annoys me slightly like occasionally missing drops/skirmishes and expansions but this tournament your camera work was most certainly close to impeccable.
General Dreamhack feedback:
In addendum, I followed the tournament both on stream and the semis- and finals on site. When I got home and watched the VODs of the english stream it was disheartening to see how bad the crowd noise and atmosphere was captured. SVT did a much better job in that aspect. Also, from a stream viewers perspective, the visual interaction with the players could be improved upon, not being able to see them until the semis takes away a lot from the experience.
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself.
Well I got to say, I am not a fan of yours. I don't have much over for your opinions on most things and I don't like the way you act a times etc.
However, I do have to give you some respect to man up and call it like it is, you had no place on that couch and your knowledge is nowhere near any other caster. I do think you bring some people into Sc2 tho so thats good.
If you keep going down the humble road and change in that way who knows, you might jut win me over one day!
Thats a solid post right there - I enjoyed reading it, thank you man
You were an absolute trooper this weekend - From what I saw (And I saw most) you had by far the least breaks of all casters, always on cam.. Cannot imagine how had that is 14 hours a day, 3 days in a row :o
5/5 - Thanks for the writeup - Hope you keep on casting SC
Hey TB, good job at DH, you and apollo make good casting pair!
In the finals, everyone was like, are you guys ready? Is everyone ready... and then came the ARE YOU EXCITED FOR THE FFFFFFFFFFIIIIINAAAAAAAAALLLLLSSSSS!! which got me wide awake at 4:30 in the morning Cheers, keep up the good work!
Thank you for your contribution to eSports. Excellent write up and very easy to respect you and what you do. 5/5 Would read again. Have a nice week off.
On November 29 2011 02:41 ELA wrote: Thats a solid post right there - I enjoyed reading it, thank you man
You were an absolute trooper this weekend - From what I saw (And I saw most) you had by far the least breaks of all casters, always on cam.. Cannot imagine how had that is 14 hours a day, 3 days in a row :o
5/5 - Thanks for the writeup - Hope you keep on casting SC
I think Tastosis got less breaks, particularly in the first day where they completely skipped their lunchbreak due to the Goody match. We did spend a lot of our breaks signing, which can be a problem. I love doing it but sometimes it's best to take the Day9 approach and do all signing at a designated session.
I think your a great caster, capable of making even boring games entertaining. Like the way you and Apollo interact as well, Its like most other sport when one does all most of the accually commenting and the other one analyzes.
Cant understand why people dont like your casting, but haters gonna hate.
Great post TB ! I did enjoy all the casters during this tournament and you all did an awesome job Thanks to all for providing us with hours of live entertainment !
Hey TB, 1st of all congrats on the casting, you and Apollo did great and it sure was awsome, and its nice that you are constantly trying to improve. But if I may add a criticism, there were some times during battles (and I get this is mostly due to excitment) that you would simply go too loud, and i even had to decrease the volume right away. Don't get me wrong, it really made it exciting but maybe you could try watch out for that a bit more and try to keep a steadier volume for the sakes of ear health xD.
On November 29 2011 02:58 AceOfSpaces wrote: Hey TB, 1st of all congrats on the casting, you and Apollo did great and it sure was awsome, and its nice that you are constantly trying to improve. But if I may add a criticism, there were some times during battles (and I get this is mostly due to excitment) that you would simply go too loud, and i even had to decrease the volume right away. Don't get me wrong, it really made it exciting but maybe you could try watch out for that a bit more and try to keep a steadier volume for the sakes of ear health xD.
This is actually a production problem that can be solved with compression. This never happens in SCI for instance, because I run my headsets through a compressor. I can go as loud as I want and it won't "clip", the volume will also be much more even. Our stage had no form of compression, I cannot speak for the rest of the stages, but I would suggest every tournament take a serious look at a compressor in their production setup.
The only thing that I maybe have to add is that there is a story behind every player, it's the tournament's (therefore generally casters') job to tell those stories. So why not have the best of both worlds: the best players, with a story behind each? :p
Great writeup. Only feedback I have is that you seemed to be the one being the most affected from the long sessions and being tired. Well, dApollo took it heavy too, but wasn't he a bit ill? He always seems to be sick when csting tournaments.
Anyway, it was an absolute joy tuning in to hear you and all of the other casters do their thing, just wish I could've been there to see it live.
I LOVE the 'WWE style intro' idea. People went crazy when the Dreamhack promo was aired on the stream (just before the finals) and many said it felt 'epic'. I could see how WWE style intro's could be epic and pump the watcher.
the couch did seem a bit crowded from a viewers perspective as well. However, my feeling was, that that stemmed from the very short on-air durations, where usually there was barely enough time for everyone to say something until the "thumb up" notice came in. I think that could be improved by simply saying "we do a definite 3 minutes couch on-air" instead of just dynamically filling the 45 seconds until the next game is up. That could also maybe further reduce the stress on the main casters.
regarding camera control, i watched your stream about half the time just because you're awesome and i see the four other casters on camera often enough elsewhere (i don't follow your sc2 content). I think you did fairly good, i didn't even think about camera control the whole weekend, so i'd say it was just perfect.
Personally, i feel like three pairs of casters with each on their own stream is overkill. You wrote extensively about the caster side of this, the strain of 14 hours times 3 days. But i actually think, even from a viewer point, that wasn't handled very well. I would much rather see maybe two streams with the casters rotating in and out, instead of having three streams, being unable to follow even half of the content, and then just having all three streams be on downtime for 2 hours at the same time. IMO it would be a lot better, to have only two streams and to rotate shoutcast duos to cut out the downtimes and reduce the stress put on the casters. Also, it would mean that one less viewing arena is required. Just an overall more resource-friendly concept with less downtimes (although in the end less content on VODs etc, but i believe the advantages for the live content outweigh that).
About the host guy .. i feel a lot of the troubles he had came from not knowing who that even was. By the end of the event i had learned that he's just the host. But when he randomly appeared, it's just like "wtf who is this, what is he doing?". A few Stream overlays (not only for him but in general) showing "GuysName (event host)" and showing a small summary of what he's currently announcing would be great. The same probably goes for the normal casters: Show some overlays with names, show the upcoming game while the casters are talking. Dreamhack was obviously capable of using overlays, they had "next match x" during breaks, they flashed "is hero dead?" when his pulse monitor went down and showed 4bpm (these things were great btw, keep those!). Why not make some nice banners to put in the bottom half of the screen like when watching news or something? Provide some info so viewers just know what's going on, and in case of the host to support him. That would at least have helped me as a stream viewer. He seemed a little try-hard with the live crowd like when announcing HON after sc2 lb finals or what that was, no clue how to improve that. But on-stream overlay information would at least make the situation more accessible to stream viewers.
Anyways, it was a great show you and the other guys performed. Keep up the good work! (and i second "make more videos with jesse", i'm thrilled for you two screwing up with the new terraria update :D)
I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion). In this case, I think 3 is the magic number.
I think it would be more efficient if one person is more of a host and leads the discussion instead of the others trying to join the discussion without interrupting anyone else.
I also feel that most of you guys are used to addressing the audience too much because you are (most of the time) casters. If you look at similar talk shows on TV, the host would address the viewers at the beginning and from then on he would be leading a dialogue with the others without trying too make sure he/she looks at the crowd/camera all the time.
I think the camera control was good though for the most part, I used Smart Camera Pan and a lot of unit/building follow to get smooth movement, though I had issues during the finals because it wasn't my mouse and the sensitivity was out of whack.
You'd be happy to hear that you camera control was pretty good.
Well done TB you did a grand job at DH. Apollo was a trooper too. The only thing I would change is I'd like to see how the chemistry would be between you and another caster. Although Apollo is knowledgeable he is not an ideal match for your character IMO.
Great write-up, I agree with every point made. Much respect for you guys when you're losing your voice with 4hrs casting to go, and still you enjoy every second of it!
<3 to TotalBiscuit and Apollo, you guys make me proud to be British!
Great writeup. More seating is definitely needed, the steelseries stage and surrounding area was crammed (though it was hilariously cute to see HuK and SaSe sitting on the floor like two happy kids when Naniwa played Ciara).
TB, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. DHW11 was an incredible tournament, well organized and executed and with great innovations like the couch. Really awesome.
To say that you should not have been there, makes me sad. I really enjoy you and dapollo casting and so are a ton of other people. Blaming yourself for two missed battles during a three day marathon is a bit too harsh on yourself.
There are always things to improve. That's what keeps life interesting. And you are getting better and better at it - your new found, sheth induced zerg love is certainly helping. But if you feel your casting falls short compared to tastosis capabilities, well, those guys had a wee bit more practise.
Strife for perfection, but enjoy doing so! You are most enjoyable when you enjoy it yourself!
Btw. your shows with sheth and TT1(?) have been your best sc2 shows, imo. A weekly with varying coaches would be a blast!
You missed discussing the huuge stream issues in day one, something DH always seems to have. They are unacceptable and DH really needs to do something about it, either switch from Twitch.TV as a provider or get them to step up their game.
I also think you should spend more time learning about starcraft, I think you're a great caster, but your lack of knowledge when commentating in certain situations makes me very frustrated as a viewer at times.
Every caster at Dreamhack did an exceptional job that brought me brilliant, flawless entertainment for free from the comfort of my own bedroom. Loved Dreamhack, loved the writeup. Have a relaxing holiday, TB. Hope to see you casting again soon
On November 29 2011 03:19 Grunknisse wrote: Thank you for this very good blog TotalBiscuit!
You missed discussing the huuge stream issues in day one, something DH always seems to have. They are unacceptable and DH really needs to do something about it, either switch from Twitch.TV as a provider or get them to step up their game.
I also think you should spend more time learning about starcraft, I think you're a great caster, but your lack of knowledge when commentating in certain situations makes me very frustrated as a viewer at times.
Keep up the heroic work!
Always difficult to talk about Twitch issues because they vary from person to person. Mass lag sometimes happens but more often than not it's a regional thing. It's not Dreamhack's fault tbh and there is no reliable option as far as I can see. Ustream, Own3d and Twitch all have their own problems.
On November 29 2011 02:45 TotalBiscuit wrote: We did spend a lot of our breaks signing, which can be a problem. I love doing it but sometimes it's best to take the Day9 approach and do all signing at a designated session.
That would probably give you some more time but it wouldn't be that awesome for us fans at place. Me and my friend was in the line for the day9 signing for 1½ hrs and din't get an autograph (Tho we get a high 5!). But maybe you just allow autographs/photos in some of the breaks? Also really sad I couldn't watch you that much since we couldn't get good places to watch your stream since it always was full (Even the spots were we could stand). Still an awesome job from your side!
Just gotta add that the moment where we met you was so awesome when apollo just looked so shocked about you coming all over artosis! ^^
Absolutely great post, I love reading about and event from somebody involved in it. Dreamhack was a great event and you had a big part in making it such a cool experience. I will never understand though what are the organizers thinking when they pick these absolutely horrific hosts. "We have 6 extremely well know figures in this community, let's call this random guy that has no clue about anything and have him piss off the crowd." It boggles my mind... I loved it when you started making fun of CoD, you kinda saved the situation, though you only reinforced the idea that he was completely out of place. The next 2 or 3 times he came out again I had to mute the stream sadly Also, that idea of a parallel stream of the couch discussion during the matches is pure gold, somebody should definitely do it in the future.
While you don't have much to offer as an analyst, your live audience management(HYPE) is easily the best out there right now, while some other casters in that event(I won't name who) are probably just as bad at it as you are at SC2. I hope they learned a lot from you, and vice versa, I hope you learned about the game from them.
Great work throughout the tournament, I don't think I told you that in person, but I should've.
Your set-up on the floor was pretty awkward, tons of publicity, but hard to sit through for a lot of time. Those bleachers were also incredibly hard to sit on, maybe DH can invest in some cushions that make it easier to stay longer. Extremely well done at the finals ceremony, you saved it 100%.
You and dApollo did a great job at DH especially considering your location and the minor technical issues you had to work around. The first two days were the best time I've had watching a major esports tourney since djWheat and Sirscoots covered Devastation 2009, which was really entertaining. Just so much going on and so many games and groups to keep up to date with, which Apollo was doing really well, by checking liquipedia
Well said, but this: " I often say that sportscasters would not be able to survive doing what we do and after this weekend I can safely say that I'm right."
Really? Why do people insist on belittling what others do? Did this point really add so much to your argument about the incredibly long hours casting?
On November 29 2011 03:46 marktronic wrote: Well said, but this: " I often say that sportscasters would not be able to survive doing what we do and after this weekend I can safely say that I'm right."
Really? Why do people insist on belittling what others do? Did this point really add so much to your argument about the incredibly long hours casting?
Nice post and a good summary of a great tournament. Thanks TotalBiscuit, Apollo, Mr Bitter, Day[9], Artosis and Tasteless for the dedication and hard work. I enjoyed it a lot.
Undoubtedly the skill on display was phenomenal but tell me, was that final good because the players were Korean or because of the story of those players?
I only quoted a small part of your argument here, but I feel like you're turning what should be a matter of personal opinion into an argument here. People watch Sc2 for very different reasons. Some are primarily interested in the game itself and the amount of skill involved while others (like you) watch for the excitement, the drama and the players. One way of enjoying Sc2 isn't superior to the other, so the opinion that a tournament needs a lot of code S players to be great isn't right or wrong, it's just a matter of personal preference. Me, I loved Dreamhack more than any other Sc2 tournament so far because of the Hero vs Puma story, but I usually don't invest myself that heavily into a player (Hero) if I'm not in love with their play and skill. And yes, having more Koreans usually makes a tournament more interesting for me.
There are times when I think it can be perceived that I'm ignoring Apollo's points, more often than not it's simply because his explanation is so thorough and accurate that I have no followup, though I'm starting to get better with being able to extrapolate his analysis with either a reinterpretation which is less technical for the more casual fans, a joke or an original theory of my own. Game knowledge building is still a slow process that is requiring a lot of work but I'm not really making the stupid mistakes I used to, at least not that I've noticed or that anyone seems able to point out specifically. Practice is still required and plenty of that will continue to happen with various engagements booked for the both of us. I think laddering more is helping, I used to hate playing but since I switched to Zerg I'm enjoying the game again and it also gives me an appreciation of the various macro mechanics and how important various things are which I didn't really have before.
It's great that you're laddering more, there's really no way around becoming a decent player if you want to have a good understanding of the game. I feel like you work together really well with Apollo. If I can make one suggestion, you still speak in absolutes too much. What I mean by that is that you say things like 'it's roaches vs stalkers, that's never a good situation for Protoss'. I guess your reasoning behind it is that you keep to straightforward analysis rather than getting into the territory of more subtle analysis that you have less confidence in, but the problem is things are rarely that clear-cut in Sc2. Roaches vs stalkers can both be terrible and great for Protoss depending on the situation. Anyway, it's a small thing and maybe this comes across as nitpicking more than anything.
It's gotten noticebly better; you're not making those dumb mistakes and hicups as you did half a year ago as well as your analysis is better and more accurate. Put it bluntly: you're no longer doing and saying things that a top level caster should not (things that are enough to make a viewer turn off the stream). Are you below the level of Day9, Tastosis, etc? Yes, but by how much is not important, you're very high enough that the commentary is great to listen.
Honestly, just keep improving: ironing out the few remaining caster mistakes, getting a lot more game knowledge and improving you personality. I am not shure you (or anyone) could get to Tastosis level without full dedication, but it's possible to get very high, very close.
On November 29 2011 03:00 TotalBiscuit wrote: I would suggest every tournament take a serious look at a compressor in their production setup.
Absolutely! So many otherwise well-produced tournaments fall short in the sound department, although in general quality is getting better as SC2 grows.
I'm no sound engineer, but AFAIK there's good software out there (some of it free) to do stuff like mixing, equalization, compression, and de-essing in real time. It's a shame tournament organizers still don't spend more time/money on this part of the production, when it could enhance the viewer experience significantly.
"But it's not professional/it's cheesy!" some may cry, "how dare you compare our treasured eSport to wrestling!". Guys, you watch a game with giant tanks, fat floating space octopus and the machines from War of the Worlds, you're already occupying an entire universe of cheesy nonsense, embrace it.
In its most simplest stripped down form I suppose so however I do not watch Starcraft for those reasons. You see I actually play the game and I watch for strategy, decision making, the insane tactics that takes numerous amounts of practice to pull off. The graphics are just pieces on the board. These are the things that need to be emphasized to people. The last thing I want to see is my sport turned into a Nickelodeon kids show, or look anything like The CGS and finally fake, cheesy, trailer trash wrestling.
I love the Photoshop cover. Too good and nice write-up.
Being on the couch is fine. Stop analyzing it too much! Just bring the laughter and your voice. You did a much better job than anyone else getting the crowd riled up than Day[9] and the other boys. That is a feat onto itself.
"Guys, you watch a game with giant tanks, fat floating space octopus and the machines from War of the Worlds, you're already occupying an entire universe of cheesy nonsense, embrace it." - TotalBiscuit keepin' it real
Don't worry TB, I'm sure your concerns will be addressed by the DH crew by the next event. Considering how kick-ass their events are, I'm sure they consider anything less than the best, a failure.
Thanks for the blog entry and thanks for the great work this past weekend. You, Tastosis, Day, Mr. Bitter, and especially dAppolo did a bang-up job.
It doens't matter if you are not the best analyst among the casters, it doens't matter if you don't have the smartest thing to say between the games in the couch, you still belong there beacuse of ypur wonderfull personality. You maybee don't add so musch of knowledge as Day9, dApollo and the others did but you sure added joy and laughter to it. Don't undervalue your self in that regard that you don't belong there because you do! The entertaining value is rising A LOT when you are around. Just wanted to let you know that! <3
Really great job at Dreamhack! Keep it up! And thank you for an awesome blog input. <3<3
I think your being a bit hard on yourself, with 13 hours days it's quite amazing you only missed 2 drops/battle. This isn't your fault, but a bad organization by the event. Just as some people only appreciate the play of Nestea and MVP, they also have unreasonably high expectations for casters... compared to most other games your casting is top level. I also think it would alienate a lot of (potential) viewers if the tournament would only have analytical casters. I think two streams with casters having breaks would be the better choice. In the end i can only really watch one stream at a time anyway.
I totally agree on your point about the reactions on the list of attending players. I wouldn't like all the Korean code S players being shipped to every international event... it would kill international e-sports. I like the storyline of 'unknown' underdogs making a run in a tournament. I like the Korea vs the World storylines. I loved the line-up at dreamhack... All the players were pretty decent, unlike some of the players we got to watch during the open bracket of MLG providence. Dreamhack is a european tournament and one of the only tournaments we get to see our european talent. I love it!
I loved the couch during the finals. All the analyses was pretty neat. I don't think it's a problem to have 4 people on the couch, but each person needs to have a specific role... and it's not necessary to have all of them speak during each break. Similar to to talent shows on tv, they often have a 4 man jury, but only show 3 of them for each contestant. Although the analyses was great, i missed a voice that put the games or situations into a historical perspective. Someone that knows how a players achievement relates to past events. Someone who know how a player usually copes with the stress of losing a game, being on the verge of elimination or being stressed by actually being one game away from winning a match. I think you could actually be the guy for that role. Than again, i fully support your ambition to be the finals host/MC. I think that suits you perfectly. (Although I didn't have a problem with the host they used now, except for the Quake winner interview, which was kinda awkward.)
The power crane shots made by the swedish tv (Top 3 power crane control in the world!) were obviously better than the normal stream. I've been in an audiance once for a tv show which was far more deserted, but they have a lot of skill and experience in making it look like it's packed... this is something that can be improved upon.
Finally, the one thing that actually annoyed me (and has in a lot of previous tournements) is the award ceremony. Who ever thinks it's OK to have seated casters announce the prizes is an idiot, it just doesn't work. I believe, if you were the host the show, the award ceremony would be a lot more exciting and less awkward! I think ESWC had by far the best award ceremony this year for an international event. What they did isn't rocket science... i should be copy/pasted onto each event!
Honestly I am not the biggest fan of Totalbiscut but after reading this I respect the guy a lot more. He admits that he does not know as much as the full time casters and I appreciate that he knows it and is not afraid to admit it. Great write up and because of this read I will be sure to watch more of your cast's. Keep up the good work!
I watched a lot of Dreamhack Winter, and you were fantastic in it. Stop being so tough on yourself, Starcraft 2 is a huge game and theres space for lots of different casters with different styles. You can never please everyone and the best thing to do is post your articles/thoughts, and just ignore/dont look at the comments. Be true to yourself, not every internet douchebag.
Keep up the gr8 work. You have improved and gained a certain synergy with dApollo over the last few months, which really shows in your casting. Just, yeah, keep focusing on your camera movement. It's become better but, as you point out, it must improve further. Also, it is always nice to have a particular cynical European among the all-american top casters =)
P.S. You HAVE TO, imho, be on a couch, if you are not casting. Just try to keep it shorter than you did at DHW11.
On November 29 2011 02:41 ELA wrote: Thats a solid post right there - I enjoyed reading it, thank you man
You were an absolute trooper this weekend - From what I saw (And I saw most) you had by far the least breaks of all casters, always on cam.. Cannot imagine how had that is 14 hours a day, 3 days in a row :o
5/5 - Thanks for the writeup - Hope you keep on casting SC
I think Tastosis got less breaks, particularly in the first day where they completely skipped their lunchbreak due to the Goody match. We did spend a lot of our breaks signing, which can be a problem. I love doing it but sometimes it's best to take the Day9 approach and do all signing at a designated session.
When a friend told me about how long Goody's games were during DHW, I immediately thought of your Goody Median Time comment during DHS.
I have to admit, I was thinking the exact same thing as TB says here about the couch. He just didn't look altogether comfortable there, and anyone would feel tactically inadequate next to the guys he were with. He's the ultimate shoutcaster; he's not supposed to be very analytical.
I quite liked the idea of the couch, though. Even how it was implemented was pretty good, though as TB says maybe the numbers should be slightly lower.
All in all, a very good event. Truly magnificent stream quality and amount of content for something I didn't even pay for. If Dreamhack start adding more content for some sort of Premium stream, I am very likely to buy it.
Good job, TB! You're not always my favourite caster, but I always like you with Apollo. Was great to watch.
Great points TB! I cearry don't think there is much more to add.
And I hope you get to enjoy some rest here in my home town. You probably chose the worst time to visit in the end of november (very wet, cold and dark) but if there is anything I could help you with, don't hesitate to drop me a note.
I totally agree. Write-ups like these are super. They are both useful for us to see the struggles of being a caster and some look at the behind-the-scenes from the event as well as some useful info for the event planners. They really need to start thinking about which games are their major games and begin to cater toward making that experience much better for their viewers and not trying to make the best viewing experience for the less watched games. It seems very inverted to do it this way. It was like how halo reach was when sc2 started to come on. They didn't understand their flagship game was sc2 not halo.
On November 29 2011 02:52 Emojanne wrote: You are such a drama queen.
And this just goes to show there is no pleasing some people.
Stop replying to every stupid post. I think you are hurting yourself by interacting too much with fans. Enjoy the break and do what you do best and hope that the majority of people will like it. As it is now, they do. Be happy!
"But it's not professional/it's cheesy!" some may cry, "how dare you compare our treasured eSport to wrestling!". Guys, you watch a game with giant tanks, fat floating space octopus and the machines from War of the Worlds, you're already occupying an entire universe of cheesy nonsense, embrace it.
In its most simplest stripped down form I suppose so however I do not watch Starcraft for those reasons. You see I actually play the game and I watch for strategy, decision making, the insane tactics that takes numerous amounts of hours to pull off. The graphics are just pieces on the board. These are the things that need to be emphasized to people. The last thing I want to see is my sport turned into a Nickelodeon kids show, or look anything like The CGS and finally fake, cheesy, trailer trash wrestling.
I don't even agree with TB calling all of those things in Starcraft, "cheesy." Maybe it's just me, but cheesy in my mind is defined as something that's cheap, tawdry, and overdone; or, according to multiple sources of definitions online, from urban dictionary to Merriam-Webster, "trying too hard or blatantly inauthentic" - with inauthentic being the word that's used in almost every definition. WWE can certainly be described as such, but tell me, in what way is the world of Starcraft and science fiction in general, inauthentic in the sense that it purports to be something else than it actually is? Everyone knows the lore of SC is nonsense, but at the same time, it's not trying to be anything else. I certainly don't think the first thought that pops into the mind of an outsider who views Starcraft is, "wow, this is so trite, cliche, overdone, and fake".
I think the point that I'm trying to make is, we see pyrotechnics and fancy introduction videos for almost every large event in any major spectator sport, from the NBA to the NFL to European Football to MMA to the Olympics. It's not those aspects specifically that makes something like the WWE cheesy - it's the whole packaging of WWE that makes it cheesy, and in our minds, those unsubtle aspects like pyrotechnics stand out more, so we subconsciously label it as such. In other words, while I agree with the premise of TB, that something like introduction videos would be great, instead of comparing SC to WWE, and conflating cheesy with perhaps another term, a more appropriate analogy should have been used.
First of all: I love your castig with dApollo. With his in-depth knowledge of both the game and the players, and your... passion, it's hard to feel anything but excitement with games you cast.
What you say about "not belonging" on the caster's couch is a good point you make, though. Not specifically because of you, because you sure deserve to be up on that stage, and I didn't have any complaints about the games you casted at all, but because 4 people there is indeed too many, and if you have to choose 2-3 people to sit on that couch, it'd better be people that can add extra knowledge to the already in-depth and exact information given with the casts.
You should keep casting Starcraft 2, and I think having you as the host for the finals next time would be incredibly awesome.
I spent alot of time around DHW11 chasing after Pro's and casters and from all the people that I met, you and Ret were the only ones that actually gave me the feeling that they loved meeting fans and spreading the love.
So yeah, keep on truckin'
Pimmeh (The guy who was the first one to ask if I could take a picture with you at the signing.)
On November 29 2011 04:34 NeoDragon wrote: Honestly I am not the biggest fan of Totalbiscut but after reading this I respect the guy a lot more. He admits that he does not know as much as the full time casters and I appreciate that he knows it and is not afraid to admit it. Great write up and because of this read I will be sure to watch more of your cast's. Keep up the good work!
Spoiler because completely unrelated to the thread, but why the fucking 'respect system' on TL is so broken? + Show Spoiler +
A guy does something you don't like? LOSE RESPECT! IMMEDIATELY! A guy writes an half assed apology he doesn't even believe in? MASSIVE RESPECT! PROPS TO HIM! A guy admits that he does not know as much as the full time casters after months when a good part of the community kept regularly stomping on his balls with this issue? Respect!
...what? I mean... why??? He is just telling you what you wanted to hear, it's not something special or particularly worth of respect.
His DH prestation, that was worth of real respect: casting-speaking he is like the Energizer Bunny, and that comes from a guy who used to dislike him a lot. I even posted in a fan club for my first time.
What you lack in knowledge about the game your passion and excitement makes up for. You might not belong on the couch analysing games, but Im sure you would do a stellar job as a host!
I think the idea of having in depth analysis between the games in the finals, and perhaps even the semi-finals aswell, is a very interesting concept. I would even like to see it taken to the next level with big screens you can "draw" on. For instance to help evaluate certain situations from the previous game such as battles, or having a big picture of the map to draw on to descripe expansion patterns for the different races or army movement etc.
(I watch a bit of american football and i love way they descripe plays by drawing, so if you're familiar with that, you should know sort of what i mean )
The big problem with this is obviously the relatively short amount of time between the games in sc2, and im not sure how the players would feel, having to wait an excessive amount of time between the games. Also im not too sure how it would work in front of a live audience, but for the stream viewers i think it would be awesome.
Apart from that, great blog TB and what a great event DH was! Can't wait for the next one!
Thanks for posting this. It really gives insight to what was happening behind the scenes at Dreamhack. I'm glad that you are a part of the starcraft community!
Your's and Apollo's place in the expo area was a really, really poor decision from above. I thought that your casting had improved very much since last time I watched you, and really wanted to sit in your crowd area, but the problem was the noise mostly, it was really a pain. The music was loud in most areas of dreamhack, but it was the loudest in your area, which really scared me off as a viewer.
I tried to solve the issue with my brought ear plugs, but at the same time there was the seating problem was the, like three rows of seats? It was a joke, really, compared to the big stage, which was really packed most of the time. I think you could have at least had a five times as large of a crowd if you'd have a better venue. It's really a shame
Other than that, you did really well enjoy Stockholm now!
Great blog, covers much of what I think, especially regarding you as a caster.
I have to agree placing you with rest of the casters on the coach, you did feel a little "out-classed" there, as far as an analyst goes.
And regarding your casting, I think you're more of an personality as an caster, in the same way that tastosis throws smalltalk in between their casting, you have an unique way of interpreting the game and how you bring it out to the crowd (which is not a bad thing, it pleases others and others it doesn't).
Anyways, keep up the good work, your casting has indeed got more solid.
Cheers from Finland! Hope to see you @ Winter ASM 2012.
Excellent write-up man. And although you might not be an analyst, there aren't that many casters who can cast quite as passionately as you can, which sort of makes up for it in a way.
Awesome right up TB. Huge respect for your genuinely honest criticism of both the event and yourself. I enjoy your casting quite a bit (due to your deep voice) but have to sadly agree that your game knowledge is not up to par of full time SC2 casters. It's very refreshing to see people openly admit this fact.
this is why there needs to be a foreign GSL imho. Casting for 12 hours straight for 3-4 days (mlg, dreamhack, IPL??) Is sooo harsh...Having just an in studio league would take time to pick up, but the finals would be some of the most hyped shit you'd ever see. maybe i just wish there was OSL =]
Great write up TB, I always love reading these Post-mortems you do. You do such a great job at all the events you go to, and sadly don't get enough credit for it. The way you got the crowd riled up when the finals were starting was incredible, I don't think any other casters could even come near to doing that as well as you can
Great job at DH, I was there to enjoy it in person. Really enjoyed your casting with apollo as usual, you two make a great casting duo. Hopefully I will be there for DH summer, hopefully you will be casting and hopefully they will have the arena again and put on an even better show!
As i know you read these comments ( we all know you can't resist doing it :d ) i'm gonna say you're a huge personality and that's what the game need to develop beyond where we are now. Keep up the work, your starcraft2 implication have been great.
Was a very nice read. Unfortunately with the way esports is right now, the long hours for casters are pretty much a given if you want to cover the majority of the games. MLG does it different but there you have 3 sets of casters and only seeing one game being casted, which annoy the heck out of people who don't get to see their favorite players play.
As I said previously, this event was really a step up for you caster-wise and the camera control was excellent and smooth, some of the best I've seen. Some people may not think about it but the next time you get the chance compare it to Rotterdam (who in my opinion has some of the worst camera control possible). As Rotterdam moves the camera around several times per second, clicks everything, draws boxes for no reason and so on. As for missing battles, I don't think that was ever a problem, it is bound to happen at times but that is to be expected. It is also just as much the responsibility of the co-caster to keep track of drops, as he can move around his own camera much more swiftly as he scouts around and then tell the control guy if there is a drop in the works.
I very much appreciate that you listen to the feedback provided. Naturally some of it is bound to be pretty much useless or irrelevant, I for example saw someone write complaints about you wearing a hat and your clothing, but I think you are intelligent enough to filter out what is actually constructive and not let things like that get to you.
About your wish to be a host, I think you'd be a good one, maybe even a great one, if you managed to get rid of that hint of sarcasm that is so often present in your voice. As it doesn't really work sounding sarcastic if you are presenting the event. I do believe the hint of sarcasm is something you can work to tune down however. The main drawback of having you as a host is that we won't be able to hear your casts as much.
I do believe you perceived the casting couch a bit differently compared to the viewers however, at least compared to me. In my eyes, it was more like, give the casters a nice spot to watch the games from and as a bonus perhaps one of them can give a comment of the game that was played. And as such there was no pressure or expectation that everyone or even anyone of them had to say something, it was more of a bonus if any of them had thought about something whilst the game went on that they wanted to share. Very informal and as such you could just as well sit there instead of elsewhere and enjoy the games with the other casters even if you never planned to give any analysis to the viewers. That's how the couch was perceived from the spectator point of view at least, so don't worry the slighest about it.
I was personally really impressed with your show, and actually this whole topic in general, only one troll in 8 pages is pretty impressive so excellent work TL!
Back to point, you have an advantage over Day[9] in that you seem to of found a solid partner with which to work, and the chemistry is just getting better and better, even comparing to ASUS ROG, the quality of the casting and the side tracking has been minimised.
I want to say thank you for another excellent job well done 5/5
Good writeup, TB. I pretty much watched only your stream (and the semi + finals), and I followed i44 instead of MLG as well...
I find it worked out alright. The thing I enjoy about you guys most is the English (for example /puːmə/ pronounced correctly), dApollo's non-intrusive technical style, and your play by play. (As an offside, I do think that GSL suits Tastosis better - their casting in the west is somewhat bland compared to the running jokes they do in Korea)
That being said, yes, I do agree with you on other issues (such as the couch! Not saying you "should have not" been there, but with Day9 and dApollo to do the "thinking", and Day9 doing a lot of the "talking" by virtue of his seat, you and MrBitter were kind-of "obsolete". It didn't feel bad though!).
I didn't think the production value of your streamcast was worse than the other two (or MLG, or i44), apart from: - being stuck in a dark room - the setup - sponsorship logo etc - looked a bit shabby, even compared to that small "basement" Day9 and MrBitter did their heroic allnighter cast in (there was a video from a handheld camera, which showed how unorganised that room was, but only off-camera).
Thanks for this, though, and hope to see you with Apollo on some other events shortly!
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion).
You ask a question and give the wrong answer yourself!
I agree that you were in some stellar company, but you made no mistakes. On the contrary, you contributed to the conversation and during the finals made some very interesting remarks that the others failed to mention and were delighted to expand upon.
Good job mate. I really enjoyed listening to yours and apollos casting. I think you have improved a ton. Focus on the constructive things and keep going.
You'd probably do a great job in a hosting role too! You have a ton of relevant experience and know-how, both about the game, casting and production - and possess all the relevant qualities that I want in a host (top hat, entertainer and ability to hype).
Very nice writeup! Enjoyed your "booth" alot, but like you said were there too few seats, only got to sit down once during the whole event. Looking forward to seeing you again at the next event, hopefully at a bigger stage!
To be honest, as a fan of the good all "One caster, one expert commentator" I think you (TB) and Apollo might be my favorite casting-duo in sc2 atm. dApollo got a game-knowledge and understanding I would dare say might beat Artosis, and you yourself does an excellent job at keeping the casting as entertaining, and at the same time profesional, as can be. No better caster for getting you in to esports. Great and honest post, and a superb job at DreamHack! Hope we will be seeing you in a lot more sc2-tournaments to come good sir!
EDIT: Although I do think you were right about the casting couch, whenever I saw you there I knew that you knew you didn't have much to offer, nothing that the other casters didn't say already. 4 was definitely too many. 3 is good.
Great post, sums it up perfectly. I think your casting together with dApollo is really good, you have a powerful voice and you are not afraid to use it to its full extent. Really a pleasure to listen to. Also I have to say that i was so happy when you made the player introduction. It was tejbz who were supposed to do it right? Anyway thanks for saving the evening, it would be so awkward if you let him do all the intros and such.
Mr. Biscuit, I would like to simply state that your continued attention to this thread and communication with the community is commendable. I hope your future with SC2 is bright. The day SC2 lands on a consistent television channel, it would be a damned shame not to have your persona right next to Tastosis, Day9, & co.
Just read the whole post, saw it earlier today and didn't have the time for a post that long, but having read it it was well worth the time.
I have to say I completely agree with you on almost every point, especially about the casting couch. A few too many people on it I guess, and every time it cut to the couch I was just wanting to hear what Artosis had to say, and I agree you'd make a better fit in a presenter role than on the couch. Three would be about right I think, you're right on that point.
Only thing I wasn't entirely sure about was what you're saying about koreans (skill) vs story & drama:
Undoubtedly the skill on display was phenomenal but tell me, was that final good because the players were Korean or because of the story of those players?
A story helps, for reasons you've described. It being high level play helps more than I feel you give credit though, as our expectations have raised; go back and watch some games from GSL in 2010 and they just feel....bad. But they were great at the time.
Though the main thing which made the finals that good was that they were close, high-tension, action packed games (not a gsl 4-0 finals). The games were just entertaining.
Lastly, I think you worked really well with dApollo. I saw you cast that first i-series lan tournament with him aaaaages ago and I wasn't impressed I'll be honest, but the two of you have made incredible progress since then. You fill your roles really well, it's really natural now.
Really great write up. Thought you and the rest of the casters did an awesome job. It was the first event that really has given me chills - I even filled up at the climax :D
Nice blog TB. I wasn't a fan a while back, but as you said your game knowledge has improved and I think it's a big part of why I like your casting more now so keep it up.
Great write-up. The Dreamarena really was a lot more packed then the stream made it seem like, just check out SVT:s VoDs for the finals http://svt.se/dreamhack they had a lot better camera angles and production in general; it gives a lot better perception of how large and energetic the crowd was. TB keep improving your casting mate you're getting better and if ever you're unsure of something regarding analysis just do what djWHEAT does so well and simply ask your more analytical counterpart(although like you said yourselves there haven't been a lot of "stupid mistakes" as of late) . Top Hat fighting!
PS: Thanks for having your picture taken with me man
Your post was absolutely honest and precise in many ways, even if you tend to much on devaluing yourself.
I went to the DreamHack this last weekend and it was my first real encounter with professional e-sport. I have to say that I was really impressed by the venue and the quality of the tournaments. The SC2 was well represented with this fine team of 6 casters which all have their qualities and flaws. As your casting duo with dApollo is concerned, I must say that you're completing each other. You're the showman and Apollo is the technical adviser. In France, we have a casting duo which are functioning the same way, Pomf & Thud to name them, and even if theirs VOD are much less technical than any other casts, it's a working duo. They're even bringing more and more people to the esport. But back to your duo, I must say I was really impressed by your tenacity in your spot on the venue. It was really noisy and difficult to sit, but you still gave so much energy on the 3-day run that we should be asking ourselves, how they did it ?
I've one question about your co-caster Apollo. I saw him making a lots of notes during the games in his notepad. What is he writing precisely ? The good and bad decision of players, the BOs, or other things ?
As I'm not a native English-speaker, I didn't perceived negatively any of your cast before I saw this post. And I still don't. I think you've all the qualities required to be one of the best caster and that you should continue in this way.
The DH had showed me what is a real esport event and I definitively hope to be there on the DHS12 to see more of this epic stuff !
Great blog, even though you're not an analyst like day9 and some of the others, I still enjoy your casting a lot. You are an honest caster and I feel that you are a better caster if it comes to new people trying to watch starcraft 2. All of the other casters really go deep into the builds and anaylse something that new spectators have no clue whatsoever about. You did an awesome job there and you're an awesome combination with Apollo. Even though you think you're not much of a value on the couch I do think you should be there, maybe not to analyze all the builds but you do understand a lot of the mechanics and it should give you even more experience to grow more into something that you like I did agree that you and mr bitter both were put into a little awkward conversation with people really going deep trying to analyze the game but I think you guys should've not spend that much trying to analyze but more look at the surrounding factors of the game. Sure analyzing is something important but in my point of view it was a little bit too much.
And like the person also said above and I must agree with that: You're a really good entertainer which is important as well!
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself.
Great write-up anyway, 5/5
Made me respect him alt more. Knowing your own limitations is quite rare. Good play by play and smooth camera movement plus wit.
I've never believed that Koreans are required for a good tournament and with European players beating Koreans on a regular basis as well as exhibiting a wide variety of interesting playstyles, I believe an exciting and dynamic tournament is driven primarily by European involvement.
Absolutely! Thanks for putting this into such clear words. Besides, excellent blog, and you do a great job of casting. No 'but's.
Nice analysis, for me the biggest issues on day 1 and 2 were the damn stream lag, it really killed the game for me. (Video and sound jitters, not sure if it was twitch.tv in europe or something to do with dreamhack but it makes the current event in my home country seem like a farce. You guys should seriously start to think about forming a caster's "union", to make sure you can get contracts written with proper break times at enough intervals so you're not dying on stream, getting a lawyer or solicitor or whatever to go over contracts etc. 'cause esports is srs bznz. So there we go, firstly sorry for the silly tropes/memes I did, and secondly I hope you enjoy "my" beautiful city even if it's almost the darkest time of year.
Excellent job as always in my opinion. And as far as i am concerned you dont need to improve your analytical side. Work with what you got, and what you got is a unique niché (compared to the other 5 who was there)
Afterall, crowd enjoyment is based on the caster-duo's performance. Apollo's strenghts + yours makes for top notch quality. The biggest improvement you guys can do is to become a true casting archon, perfectly synced and working on eachothers strenghts. Which only time and practice will do for you.
And for bringing more people into watching starcraft 2, no one would do a better job.
Nice post TB. While your lack of knowledge is frustrating at times compared to Day 9, Artosis etc, at least you can admit that. And your own humerous style of casting definitely would help to attract new players to the game.
Really great blog and loved your honesty about everything. Once again your casting was excellent with Apollo and you both continue to improve tournament after tournament, I didn't catch that much of your casting at this DH because the sheer amount of games but what I heard it was to a particularly high quality, as usual. The couch was a little awkward to say the least and I knew you could feel it too, although not that noticeable. What input you had on the games though I felt added to the conversation nicely and wasn't at all out of place so great job and I am glad to see you are honest about it all. You are winning over your worst enemies TB with every tournament you cast, keep up the good work! <3
Great post TB. I have always admired your honesty even though sometimes I completely disagree with you.
In your shoes, I would have really push the issues of getting breaks because as you said, casting can make good games bad and bad games good. It is also your responsibly to get the names of the sponsors out to the thousands watching so in a way, the casters are just as important as the players.
Great read! Just one thing... Please try not to be to hard on yourself, you may not be the most analytical caster or most knowledgeable about the game, but you have something no other caster has... You! You have an amazing ability to make the game super awesome and interesting in a unique and very enjoyable way.
Being one of the WoW followers that transferred to SC2 when it was in Beta, I feel like you bring a fresh and more comedic casting tone to casual / newer players than catering to the experienced SC2-goer. I would like to keep hearing you cast major events in the same fashion you did here, on a smaller stage on stream, but Emcee the finals with Day9 while he leads a coach discussion with two other analysts.
When it comes to charisma, eloquence, and out-right entertainment through expression of excitement... Only you and Day9 have the ability to enthrall fans from the majority skill-level (being Platinum and under) that can't be matched by any caster in the SC2.
You were great for the parts I tuned into, the first thing I did when I noticed the three Dreamhack streams was search for you r stream with Apollo. Something about British commentary has always fascinated Americans.
Skimmed it, but I've got to say man you are WAAAAAY too hard on yourself.
Sure, you don't bring the same the same thing to the table that Day[9] or Apollo do. But why should you? If you were just another guy who tried (fruitlessly) to be like Day[9] or Tastosis, nobody would respect you. But you do add SOOO much to it. Like the casting couch, "are you reaaady for the finaaaaaalllls?", that's fucking AWESOME and it is ENHANCED because of your presence on the couch. In plenty of other coach's corner situations there is the guy that is mostly there to add some extra flavor to it, which you do extremely well, and though you might not add "much" to the analysis, it's still something. I dunno, I just think saying "I should not have been there" is silly. I read past that to the hosting part and I agree that you'd make a great host too, but I wouldn't give up on the casting idea is all.
For what little of Dreamhack I got to see, I was at my parents for Thanksgiving and well they still have a 56k connection and I had to watch from my phone, not to mention starting in the early hours for US (not complaining about it, I know not every tourney can be in my ideal timeframe) I think the whole group did a wonderful job.
About the couch, as an analyst I agree TB you didn't really have much to add compared to Apollo or Day[9], but that's not your role. Here's an idea throwing it out here, but if the situation arises again, what about leading the discussion by asking questions, like "What was he thinking with that build order?" things like that, lead the analysts in the discussion by pointing out the different parts of the match that you may think the crowd may be interested in. You already do this with Apollo a lot pre and during matches. Think that might be a better role for you on the couch, but from what little I could see I think yah should have been there, just not as an analyst roll, which you yourself stated is true.
Impressive read, I've been an anti-fan of yours for a while but your improved casting with apollo at dreamhack and this blog have changed my mind completely.
The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community. TB can't crack gold league and it shows as he is flustered, repeating things Apollo has said, or clearly making mistakes. While his enthusiasm is good for the game, he lack of knowledge is upsetting to hear as a fan. TB either commit to the game and become more knowledgeable, or stop casting a level of play 100 times higher than what you understand.
My biggest complaint to a great tournament was that the crowd noise was not properly reflected in the VODs. This is something that I REALLY enjoy hearing, because it makes me feel better about e-sports, and if it could be changed, it would be very much appreciated.
On November 29 2011 10:07 Pabu wrote: The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community. TB can't crack gold league and it shows as he is flustered, repeating things Apollo has said, or clearly making mistakes. While his enthusiasm is good for the game, he lack of knowledge is upsetting to hear as a fan. TB either commit to the game and become more knowledgeable, or stop casting a level of play 100 times higher than what you understand.
On November 29 2011 10:07 Pabu wrote: The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community. TB can't crack gold league and it shows as he is flustered, repeating things Apollo has said, or clearly making mistakes. While his enthusiasm is good for the game, he lack of knowledge is upsetting to hear as a fan. TB either commit to the game and become more knowledgeable, or stop casting a level of play 100 times higher than what you understand.
I disagree. dApollo was fucking ON IT at Dreamhack. Some of the stuff he was saying was just so correct, it was like watching Artosis. Totalbiscuit was the perfect partner, bringing excitement, and doing all the observing (and, it turns out, production). His observing was pretty much faultless from what I saw. I would agree with you a while back when he first started solo-casting things without quite enough knowledge, but I guess jumping in at the deep end you learn quickly. He's still not a top analyst no, but he knows his constraints and personally as part of the duo I couldn't fault him, was really entertainig.
As much as I like what Day9 does for esports, he was the reason the caster couch was ruined. Every time Tastosis threw it over to the couch, Day9 always "answered" and went on to do his thing. Considering that the downtime between matches was pretty small, the other casters had no time to express their opinion.
On November 29 2011 10:07 Pabu wrote: The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community. TB can't crack gold league and it shows as he is flustered, repeating things Apollo has said, or clearly making mistakes. While his enthusiasm is good for the game, he lack of knowledge is upsetting to hear as a fan. TB either commit to the game and become more knowledgeable, or stop casting a level of play 100 times higher than what you understand.
WOW. HE MAKES A BLOG ADMITTING HIS FAULTS AND YOU HAVE TO BE A DICK AND BASH HIM. In his own blog too! Don't be a Negatron!! Be an OPTIMIST PRIME YO!!
Anyways TB, don't worry, the Beast is beautiful too! You are in fact a prince of E-Sports just waiting for some love!!
I seriously do not know how you find the time to do this. You are one of those people that puts out content almost every day, you are on every post/thread I see, you cast live events and still manager to write tomes in recap.
You make some valid points, and the flaws and positives you share are priceless pieces of information for me personally. I'm constantly scouting forums, streams, talkshows, podcasts and vods to gather information on how to improve events in esports so that I can do my best to nail it every time I run one.
I agree with TotalBiscuit on both the quality of the production and the awkward stage him and Apollo were set up on.
I would like to point out that good production is of great value during the event, but also afterwards when people start to watch VODs. There was no unified overlay presentation amongst the three stages and I think that denotes of a lack of seriousness from the event organizers. I would love to have the same overlays everywhere, with the name of the event, the score, whether it is a BO3, BO5 or BO7, etc...
I also felt a bit sorry when I saw TB and Apollo's stage compared to the other ones. The schedule was a bit messy as well, even for the casters, and I found the lack of official communication regarding the schedule confusing.
Please don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed this Dreamhack, and I am just trying to point out a few things that could have been a lot better with very little effort involved.
Kudos to TB and Apollo for the awesome cast, I really like you as a pair more and more. I like that you recognize your flaws and don't pretend to be ultra-analytic when you know you can not. Like you said, you bring that something else to the cast that is not just analysis but also a hell of a show !
i really enjoyed the cast tb. i think the pairing of you and dapollo, it adds something the other casts didn't have. in professional sports there is very rarely all ex pros in the commentating booth because they need someone who is entertaining and trained in broadcasting to add variety and excitement. why not model e-sports commentary on tried and tested teams. fat floating space octopus ftw.
also the constant bitching in the chat of "what is he even doing here, his gold league" was getting annoying. they had a choice or 3 different casting teams and chose to watch yours so either mute it or dont watch.
I never said anything against Apollo. He is a wonderful caster, entertaining and a great player. TB is entertaining, but knows so little about the game that it detracts. Don't be a negatron? Is that what you say to criticism? How incredibly inane and blind. If you cant take well constructed, polite criticism then you have problems as a public figure and as a community.
Edit: watch this and see that im not the only one who feels this way.
i count roughly 100+ people who liked his performance and see a place for him in pro sc2 and one who doesnt. if he turns off the stream in future then it will make 101 people happy
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself
I am not legit as an analyst, but have never claimed to be one to begin with. There is more to public speaking than just game knowledge.
There is, but at the same time, I think most people are looking for game knowledge when discussing sc2. Games seem much more meaningful when you have casters whose game sense you trust explain to you what/why something is happening.
I'm watching IPL right now and CatsPJs analysis is really bad/wrong quite often, but he does have a good personality so I've kept watching.
Didn't have time to read all of it (will do so tomorrow when I have some sleep in) but for the couch thing you are spot on. 4 people is too much... or at least 4 trying to do the same thing. I think a 3 person analytical core and 1 person being the host of the discussion might work a lot better. The formula resembles a lot what we have in sports broadcast where a host asks questions and the 3 kind of debate on the answer. Why not 2? because we hate ties in arguments
Well, off to bed I got. Congrats on that awesome weekend, you guys all did a terrific job!
On November 29 2011 11:59 Pabu wrote: I never said anything against Apollo. He is a wonderful caster, entertaining and a great player. TB is entertaining, but knows so little about the game that it detracts. Don't be a negatron? Is that what you say to criticism? How incredibly inane and blind. If you cant take well constructed, polite criticism then you have problems as a public figure and as a community.
TB said it himself, there is more to casting than just game knowledge and I agree with him. You can know everything there is to know about SC2, but if you cannot work properly with your co-caster or lack the ability to make things exciting or anything of the sort, I would not care to tune in to your games.
I personally would like TB to continue working on his strengths rather than become a analytic caster, because we already have many analysis-type casters like Artosis and Apollo who are well-praised, so competing against them (sort to speak, not sure if casters compete with another) would be difficult.
Several of us said that we'd love what we said on the couch during the games to be like a directors commentary, an alternate stream or some kind of bonus because I think people would have enjoyed (as well as have been a little offended) by the stuff we said. However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all
Kudos for saying that outright. I loved the idea of the between-game analysis, but it wasn't executed as well as it could have been. In the end it felt a little forced - each caster essentially delivered a one liner, and as you say, yours was typically a token effort. I would have much preferred some more in-depth discussion from the high level analysts, e.g., a play-by-play of key segments of the game. Having said that, I thought you did a good job as commentator, and this is a wonderful write-up!
Great post-mortem. I was only able to watch two or three games live and only caught the VODs from the semi-finals on but you brought up the things I thought most people wouldn't talk about which were the crowd size actually looked small or the venue too big and the terrible host.
On November 29 2011 11:59 Pabu wrote: I never said anything against Apollo. He is a wonderful caster, entertaining and a great player. TB is entertaining, but knows so little about the game that it detracts. Don't be a negatron? Is that what you say to criticism? How incredibly inane and blind. If you cant take well constructed, polite criticism then you have problems as a public figure and as a community.
Really enjoyed all of the casters at dream hack, I feel a bit bad for that host, he seemed really out of place. Another tournament hurting my study time and first final starts in literally a week omg...
Finally took the time to read the entire thing and found it very interesting and insightful, from my perspective as a stream watcher the main issue I had was the regular stream lag (and I am talking really bad lag I once saw only 4 frames in a 15min long game for example). But! the finals made me forget all about it, that was without a doubt the best finals in sc2 history and we are not even talking in the same ballpark. I would also add that I don't think you felt all that out of place on the couch with the other guys, despite what the small and loud group of haters may think shoutcasting has a place in every possible situation. As for Bitter I think its up to him to take up more space and day9 so naturally takes up so much space that others just have to assert themselves (not dissing day9 he is just such a big personality and has so much to say).
Overall a great tournament with a finals that almost had me in tears, great job TB and I hope you continue as EU needs you!!!
you did an awesome job, though i do see some lack of knowledge, but nothing that can´t be changed. i get that is this is par-time for you but i would love to see you go full time, even though that is hard to realize. keep on rocking and hope to see you in other tournaments
Great work at Dreamhack TB, I become a bigger fan everytime I see you cast. You and Apollo have such a great chemistry, its quite a pleasure to watch. Speaking of which, I know we can catch more of you on Shoutcraft, but I was wondering if anyone knew if Apollo does anything on a regular basis(other than these big tourneys) so that we could also watch and support him?
Nice, with this post and the article by one of the guys responsible for esports at dreamhack (on rakaka.se, in swedish) there are some things to improve upon to the next event.
My good man TotalBiscuit; I watched some of your casts on youtube a while back and of course immediately compared you to tasteosis, making my opinion of you a negative one. I did enjoy your voice and your choice of words but the analysis wasnt there, so i lost interest. However after reading this "spotlighting" post (i probly never would of found/read it otherwise) I have discoverd another side to you. You seem to know a ton about casting in general and i agree with you that the entertainment of live events have a lot to do with the personality of players / casters. So on that note you can sign me up as a fan .
Also i watched that incontrol hate video (i hate incontrol) and that just makes me like you more because i realized how much shit you have to put up with. So keep up the hard work man i will be keeping my eye out for you in the future!
I only heard the normal flak from the same five trolls who hate every caster - it seemed that the people saying the casters looked tired were coming from a place of sympathy (wow they are working these casters way too hard) rather than criticism. That being said I try to ignore stream chat as much as possible, so I probably missed the most hateful reactions.
I really enjoyed everyone's casting. The long hours must've been tough for you guys, and it's clearly not ideal working conditions. But most of us appreciate the hard work. It was an awesome tournament.
On November 29 2011 10:07 Pabu wrote: The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community. TB can't crack gold league and it shows as he is flustered, repeating things Apollo has said, or clearly making mistakes. While his enthusiasm is good for the game, he lack of knowledge is upsetting to hear as a fan. TB either commit to the game and become more knowledgeable, or stop casting a level of play 100 times higher than what you understand.
Great first post buddy! Now go leave TL forever.
So someone being a bit harsh (most of what he says is true I think, its the part about commitment that is off, as I think TB is committed. He is kind of like DjWheat imo, only noone gives wheat any flak. ) entitles you to be a dick too? Borderline backseat moderating isnt exactly great posting either.
As the (apparently rare) TLer that isn't in Diamond, Masters or GM, I can say that I very much enjoy your casting, TB, at times far more so than Tastosis together. I find that Tasteless or Artosis are often much more fun when broken apart, for me. They're both very good analysts, but that's just not what everyone wants from casters. I agree that even the funtime part of a caster-duo needs to have a platform of knowledge and that you could do better in that regard, but anyone saying that you "have no place" casting SC2 is just out of touch. None of my friends into SC2 watch it for high level analysis, we watch it for the epic games.
On November 29 2011 18:29 Grend wrote: Borderline backseat moderating isnt exactly great posting either.
The irony in this statement is funny.
Also hey, thats me in the horsehead, cool! I should so bring that to the next DH as well.
Lol I see what you did there :-P I just get annoyed when people tell others they're not wanted/needed like that. It's not really his choice to make. (hence the moderating comment)
I'm glad you know your own flaws and speak about them openly
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all
Let's be honest - You're a great caster; Even more so when combined with Apollo. I love your co-casting, but being part-time you cannot have the same knowledge as someone who dedicated their last 12 years to this game (Day9 / Tastosis) - so I'm happy to see you're actually aware of this.
Also:
There are times when I think it can be perceived that I'm ignoring Apollo's points, more often than not it's simply because his explanation is so thorough and accurate that I have no followup
... I actually wondered about this during your casts. Maybe it's just my personal opinion but sometimes you simply repeat Apollo's point, where I'd almost rather have you go on with something else - or explaining even further (e.g. drops: Apollo explaining how a drop killing double forges can be devastating - I wouldn't mind you explaining how much this delays upgrades/weakens the main army).
This was just my thoughts. Great blog man Enjoy Stockholm. When will we be seeing you in action again?
The best advice I can give you is to wear better clothes. Seriously. I know you want the top hat to be your thing, but it doesn't mean you can ignore everything else you are wearing. You are a caster, not a random sc2 fan. I hear Dario is quite the fashion expert, maybe you should hit him up.
On November 29 2011 19:16 Gono wrote: The best advice I can give you is to wear better clothes. Seriously. I know you want the top hat to be your thing, but it doesn't mean you can ignore everything else you are wearing. You are a caster, not a random sc2 fan.
That's really the least relevant thing i can think of tbh. Suit-jacket + t-shirt and jeans are hardly smart, proper attire either. TBH one of these days I'll do an event in a proper tailored suit, but Dreamhack isn't a suitable venue for that, plus I was one of 3 commentator in jeans + t-shirt for the finals yet they didn't get criticised for it.
Hey TB, thanks for the write-up. I loved your stream during the weekend and I never would've guessed that you got all that setup in just the nick of time. Really well done! Also it takes a man to admit they don't add analystic value to a panel of pro-level players. +1 to you
On November 29 2011 19:16 Gono wrote: The best advice I can give you is to wear better clothes. Seriously. I know you want the top hat to be your thing, but it doesn't mean you can ignore everything else you are wearing. You are a caster, not a random sc2 fan.
That's really the least relevant thing i can think of tbh. Suit-jacket + t-shirt and jeans are hardly smart, proper attire either. TBH one of these days I'll do an event in a proper tailored suit, but Dreamhack isn't a suitable venue for that, plus I was one of 3 commentator in jeans + t-shirt for the finals yet they didn't get criticise for it.
You would be surprised how concerned people are with the casters fashion sense, I remember the NASL feedback thread was mostly filled with comments about them wearing a sportsjacket+Tshirt.
That said, a ESPORTS embroidery on to the jacket/top hat should be prioritized.
Really great job on everything, the only thing that really sucked was the sound in your booth, I stood for the most part a couple of meeter outside of the actual booth and I could hardly hear a thing. But other than that everything else was top notch!
BTW TB, increasing your game knowledge is of course never a bad idea, but you shouldn't take criticism from TL on this point too seriously, especially those who want you to have perfect understanding of the game. It's a minority group from all those who watch, and they don't seem to want the kind of casting that will in fact help open up SC2 to a larger audience. You know how in TV series they usually have a new guy or something like that who the main characters can explain what they're doing to so that they can explain it to us the viewers, I'd rather see you take the role of the person asking basic - to mid advanced level questions of your analytical counterpart than yet another analytical caster.
My biggest complain with DH was that it just feels like an MLG but with a massively smaller budget. DH has been the biggest LAN in the world for ages, it makes no sense that it feels so small and unprepared (then again, I was only watching stream, I haven't actually been there). So many issues during the events, and the speakers are just dreadful, thank god for the casters who are WAY more professional.
It should be noted that the schedule wasn't just tough for the casters. Since the arena had a hockey game being played the day before, most of the production crew had to work all night on building the rig and setting everything up and then had to continue working with the production for the finals in some 24 hour shifts or even longer.
Don't worry so much about analysis. I said something like this in the chat at the time. You may not have pro level knowledge of the game but you ARE a pro level caster. You are the exciting guy with a great voice. The ability to Host and quip and talk really really fast and cheer are just as vital to a great cast as being able to analyse the play. Adding a caster like you to an analyst takes the spectator experience from Golf to Football.
The people who don't like what you do because you can't give pro level analysis, they are %$#ing golf fans. They want to watch a game because they know sooo much about they can smile smugly and nod along while people talk about the evolving meta game.
People who watch you want, OMFG marines are shooting stuff, that thing exploded, **pop gaming culture reference** blood everywhere **horrible pun** GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAL
I'm not really hiding my bias, I think you are WAY more entertaining to watch, and when you work with dApollo we get the best of both worlds.
Just because you are forever gold league doesn't make you not a pro level caster.
You deserve a wide and warn admiration. I remember that what brought me to be a fan of yours is the huge effort you do to put things right. You are a believer in hard work and innovation, for such thing we can always expect original and innovative content.
Thank you very much for working hard and taking the time to make contact with those who admire you.
May you, you wife and son have much joy and happiness.
Games were amazing, casting was fantastic, but I especially loved the caster couch inbetween the games, it brought up so...much... HYPE!
It wasn't just analysis from the other casters, it was to keep everyone pumped up! And you're the best when it comes to that!
It was such a treat for us fans, to see the some of the most popular figures of SC2 get together and talk about the games. You are one of them and you absolutely had a place on the caster couch, maybe not as an analyst, but as the guy who shouts - ARE YOU READY FOR THE FINAAAAAAALSSSSSSSSSS!!!
the vast majority of comments I read here are positive and constructive, but some are just plain stupid.
I don't get the elitist point of view on everything... I don't want the game to be casted by top10 GrandMaster, and if yes, it has to be fun (like TLO :D)...Of course, I don't want the caster to make mistakes and I want insights about timings, map specifities and everything but primarily I want to have FUN. All of the casters brought that to a certain extend and TB was very good at it...
SC2 has a lot of funny situations in every game, bad/good baneling detonations, fail tank siege timings, etc etc... One should definitely take advantage of it to make the casting even more pleasant to listen to... TB is very good at it...
Anyway, I think some comments are really harsh, no need to be rude and someone who puts so much effort in this activity deserves a little more empathy (not sure its the right word but I think you'll understand me ^^).. Choose your words carefully folks, words can hurt also...
You have definately improved your casting and I agree, your camera work is superb. All I could ask for is that you had more game knowledge, hopefully that will come with time.
However. I don't like how many games you play and are actively shout casting for. It makes me think "Why should I follow or like this caster, he shows little loyalty, he's here now.. but how long before he leaves for the next best thing?"
The thing with Day9 and Tastosis. There's a sense of security in actively supporting them. Because they live and breathe Starcraft and have done so for more than a decade! They are rock solid but I'm afraid your water in my eyes TB. Until you can prove me otherwise anyway.
So unfortunately, I will not actively follow you, but I won't shut off a stream just because your casting either.
Like most others : I agree fully with everything that was said. Apollo is by far the best analysis caster that I know of right now.
It's a shame that you/Apollo got the low-budget looking set, but you guys still did great. I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but I prefer you two to Tasteosis.
Wow, what a terrible clip. I had heard of InControl starting beef with TB, but this was just lame, I actually lost what little respect for InControl I had because of it.
However, on camera it was all analysis and let's be honest, what place do I have there alongside Day9, Bitter, Tastosis and Apollo? What can I offer in that scenario? Nothing at all. I also think 4 might be too many, I noticed Bitter was having trouble getting airtime as was I (though that is my fault for having nothing of value to offer to the discussion)
So you think you're not legit as a caster ? tbh I think it's true but it's weird to me that you're pointing that out yourself.
Great write-up anyway, 5/5
Dude some manner, he has one of the greatest casting voices but as he said, Starcraft 2 is not the only thing he is focusing on. You can study Starcraft 2 for 2 years without touching the surface. Ive played since launch and i am still learning every day. Casters need to have pro knowledge which is only attainable by doing SC2 24/7 basicly.
On November 30 2011 01:55 Grend wrote: It's an old clip from when tb quit sc2 over something about a tournament.
Which never actually happened, the entire clip is based on a lie which Geoff got told via chinese whispers and decided to make a big deal out of. Among the many things he's never apologised for.
Hey Biscuit! Thanks for taking the time to reflect and share it with all of us - I have to admit that while I've never been your biggest fan, it is without question that you have an absurd amount of passion for Starcraft 2 and we're all lucky to have you pushing the sport forward and doing stuff just like this. You and Apollo were a joy to watch, and I thought the camera work was just fine.
About the couch though, I have to admit that for the finals I wasn't really feeling it - I'm not talking about your input either, I just don't know that it was the best format between games to just jump over to the other four casters and hear their input about the game that we just watched and heard analyzed by Tastosis. Not to mention that with that many casters on the couch as you said before, no one really gets enough in to give it any merit at all. I feel like that time could've been better spent talking to maybe the teammates/managers of the players, or something, but the "casting couch" just didn't really do it for me.
All in all, thanks for your help in making Dreamhack as enjoyable as it was.
On November 30 2011 01:55 Grend wrote: It's an old clip from when tb quit sc2 over something about a tournament.
Which never actually happened, the entire clip is based on a lie which Geoff got told via chinese whispers and decided to make a big deal out of. Among the many things he's never apologised for.
On November 30 2011 01:55 Grend wrote: It's an old clip from when tb quit sc2 over something about a tournament.
Which never actually happened, the entire clip is based on a lie which Geoff got told via chinese whispers and decided to make a big deal out of. Among the many things he's never apologised for.
On November 30 2011 01:55 Grend wrote: It's an old clip from when tb quit sc2 over something about a tournament.
Which never actually happened, the entire clip is based on a lie which Geoff got told via chinese whispers and decided to make a big deal out of. Among the many things he's never apologised for.
I acctually got banned the first day of DH because I commented the fact that you missed a spire going down and something else so I didn't give myself the chance to thank you and give you credit for the rest of the weekend, everyone can make mistakes and I like your passion when you're commentating! Just some more knowledge about the game and you're a top-class caster imho Keep it up!
Great post thanks a lot for your casting and for posting this. I do however think you are wrong in your coach conclusion.
Some people are play-by-play orientated commentators and TB is the best one of these by far. It only adds to your credibility that you realize this. This is also why the ball should have been dropped from tastosis to you and not day[9]. You should have been the one to go "holy shit I hope I didn't interrupt the cast with my pounding heart I definitively felt Hero had the lead at several points..." And THEN the others can drop their analysis and after that you can wrap and give it back to casters.
Day[9] definitively takes to much room and comes off as pretty full of himself (This is my personal opinion and it's unrelated to the point above, still a day[9] fan but imo he needs to chill a little
I am not your biggest fan. Well, not of your casting anyway. BUT:
1. You nail every point on why I am not your biggest fan. You are getting better (much, much better). As for not playing off well with Apollo. Bull. He is by far the best casting partner you have been paired with. Why continue on something that has been very well explained? You are the initiator, Apollo brings the conclusions.
2. Awesome writeup.
3. Please, make the host thing happen. While your commentary is by no means bad anymore, you hosting would be sweet. It is also the next logical step in how to really bring the production value up as you say.
4. Casting couch. Yes. I really saw the potential flowing from that couch. And I saw how uncomfortable you were there the whole time. Also, how the hell is anyone supposed to get a word in amongst Tastosis and day9? All in all, the couch did not work, but damn, it really really could.
Great writeup! The hard work you are putting in is really showing and very much appreciated. You and Apollo did a fantastic job at DH!
As I pointed out before though, and someone else pointed out earlier in the comments here, I think having you being the host of sorts in the couch would be an ideal solution. It would make the entire thing a little more structured I think, it would be easier to distribute the time more evenly between the people in the couch and I'm sure it would set you in a more comfortable role than analysing games.
Thanks for helping making DH such an awesome event!
Very nice write up. I think all 6 of the casters did a fantastic job, but I'm impressed with not only the honest write up but that you take the time to respond to people's comments on it.
On a slightly irrelevant addendum, I'd never watched or played SC/BW/SC2 until I saw your stream about 6 months ago, and a couple of weeks ago I found myself travelling to Insomnia to watchg my first tournament in person and had an awesome time, thanks!
[B] My biggest complaint, as someone who was there, is that (watching the VODS) the arena didn't look or sound nearly as impressive. It was INSANE and I wish it was really visible on the stream as it was for us there. Oh well, until next time! =D
i agree entirely. i think pictures taken from the crowd give a better idea of how awesome it was.
Great blogpost. I would love to see you hosting events like this. Esports is more than starcraft and we need ppl who know about more than one game to host these kinds of things. The guy who was put in charge of this at Dreamhack did not do a very good job unfortunally.
As you pointed out, you may not have much to offer anlysis-wise (yet) but when you get excited about the game it's freaking awesome.
I've always enjoyed you as a caster TB, it works really well when you have somebody who can crack jokes and provide some exciting commentary next to somebody like Apollo.
Also: I wasn't even aware Apollo was sick! (Although I missed most of Dreamhack) kudos to you both though!
I like your casting during the games. But as you said yourself. 3 might be the magic number for the "e-sports sofa" and instead have you as the host of the show. Since you got a experince from all the games that is played at dreamhack and are natural talent at talking to a crowd that whould be awsome! Also as you said the sofa is more of a deeper analysis of the game we just watched and that fits better to someone like day9 who does nothing but starcrafting for a living.
I am not legit as an analyst, but have never claimed to be one to begin with. There is more to public speaking than just game knowledge.
But that's what i like about your casting. I don't really want to have an all analytic commentated match. That's your strenght. Hope you'll never get good enough to don't have appolo by your side. Because i really like how you do now.
Damn your voice and tone is so awesome that i could imagine your voice while reading your article.
Keep up the good work.
I'm all with you Master Biscuit
EDIT : Oh and by the way. Musical entrance for players would be SOOOO Huge. I really hope to see that one day for SC2.
There is something I forgot to bring up. In regards to Apollo, there is a flaw he sometimes does that perhaps you can talk with him about? When he spots for example a drop, he often says something like "Oh and he is being dropped as well" without saying where, which means you either have to actively look for the drop (which looks slightly silly as you control the camera and you may not find it in time regardless, especially if there are multiple things going on) or you have to ask him where (which sounds quite silly and makes you look slightly foolish).
It would be better if he always just said where the action is taking place after making such a remark. Such as "There is a drop incoming to the main" or "There's DT's killing the probe line at the three a'clock" and the likes.
On November 30 2011 21:49 Paladia wrote: There is something I forgot to bring up. In regards to Apollo, there is a flaw he sometimes does that perhaps you can talk with him about? When he spots for example a drop, he often says something like "Oh and he is being dropped as well" without saying where, which means you either have to actively look for the drop (which looks slightly silly as you control the camera and you may not find it in time regardless, especially if there are multiple things going on) or you have to ask him where (which sounds quite silly and makes you look slightly foolish).
It would be better if he always just said where the action is taking place after making such a remark. Such as "There is a drop incoming to the main" or "There's DT's killing the probe line at the three a'clock" and the likes.
Actually that's not a problem at all and is one of our signals. He holds his camera on the drop and I instantly snap to it via the hotkeys. We don't miss drops like that anymore as a result
Just got done catching up on this tournie via vods etc and just wanted to drop a line to say I really appreciated the hard work you (and all the rest) put into this event. Also read the blog and it was informative and interesting. Keep at it TB!
love you TB noone can question your dedication to esports i think all dhw casting was fine, despite some people being really sick. poor appolo really looked terrible i even liked the couch discussion going on bettwen games even if everyone didnt get equalamount of mictime it was fine to me
Not sure if you will read up till that post but let's pretend.
Awesome write up, very frantic, I like that. To be honest in return, you looked tensed during the event, and especially on the couch, you know, when you kept touching that jacket of yours. I was being a bit uncomfortable for you, yeah I'm like that. Now you didn't sound uncomfortable, be it off or on camera, so at least that was all good.
You say that's because a lack of intimate knowledge of SC2, which is in my opinion a valid point. However I think this also has to do with - and in advance my apologies - your weight. I'm sorry that's a bit plain but let's face it, you didn't seem physically comfortable. Again please do not take offence of that, that's just my gut opinion (go to some sports without the E!).
I really enjoy your productions in general, don't worry too much imo, people love you.
That being said, cheers
Edit : also, I couldn't help but read this report with your voice in my brain until I had to stop because it was way too slow...
Very interesting read. I have to admit, I am probably one of your more vocal skeptics when there is anyone around to hear it, but this post really deflated most of my points and I guess, in a way, you sir just won me over. To repay you and somehow extend your points I'm sharing my personal view of the Dreamhack tournament, but any tournament of the same magniture, and my thoughts on those.
Prioritize, please I experienced the exact same issues but from a spectators point of view. I too commented on the extremely strange decision to have the SteelSeries Arena seats next to a major pathway, surrounded by in comparison insignificant booths of retarded consumer hungry companies with no actual purpose other than earning more money. I still wonder when the actual hosting forces of these events will realize that StarCraft 2 IS the crowd magnet. It doesn't matter that the expansion isn't out yet, or that Blizzard felt they had no need to attend the largest LAN-party in the world with any of their products. StarCraft is still and will (in my dreams at least) remains the number one title in e-sports and contains the correct ingredients to turn it main stream. It's an exciting sport which, in theory, does not take long to watch. I mean sure, a few games went on for half an hour, but in general, every match is quite chewable. Personally I feel that all events have some kind of excitement issue going on. They all want to produce and present as much content as humanly possible over the course of 2-3 days, yet they forget that almost no sane person will be able to consume it all in one sitting. Sure, there's VOD's, but they are nowhere near as exciting as when it happens in real time, preferably live.
Overchewing So, it's not only you casters who are struggling at the moment. Us spectators have to deal with crowded (as fuck eventually) spaces and way too much content to really feel that it's worth it. The first two days when there were three streams going on at the same time, those of us in my party who were present at the live venue felt that it was really annoying missing out on two thirds of the matches. I mean, in any other sport, being AT the actual even is supposed to have perks considering they actually pay for it, but in this case, viewing the group matches was most likely more enjoyable from the couch at home. The DreamArena main stage where Day[9] and MrBitter casted from during the first and half of second days was amazing, but that too became crowded eventually, which considering the amount of games and hours of sitting time is rather insane if you hung out there the entire time. I did, and although I enjoyed it, it eventually felt like a calling (FOR E-SPORTS!!!) more than entertainment.
Look at other sports! So yeah, what did I realize during my time at Dreamhack? The organizers, the casters, and us fans, want so so much that we go to great extents trying to be a part of this. In fact, I think we're trying a little too hard at the wrong areas. Us who already enjoy this phenomenon are here to stay, no doubt about that. But the way the current trend is moving, we're making the sport almost impossible to enjoy for a "normal" human being. I mean, which other sport would compress this many games into three days? Hell, the only event I can think of that comes close to StarCraft e-sport would be the friggin' olympics, and that shit (summer olympics) contain 28 sports. Twenty eight. I don't actually know how long you'd sit and watch one hockey game at that arena normally, but I doubt people stay in those chairs for 8 hours generally. In any case, those chairs were NOT meant to sit in for 8 hours :p
Come on, did you like it or not? Loved it, actually. Even though I spent the nights in a sleeping bag on a concrete floor, surrounded by noisy, unruly, and by all means and measures, completely killable teenage dirtbags which allowed very little sleep, I had a blast over all. The semi finals and finals at Kinnarps Hockey Arena was by far the most enjoyable moment in StarCraft e-sports for me thus far, and the energy in that crowd and the games those players gave us together with my favourite casters in the flesh... aaahh man, men, women and everyone else, I really wish you could have been there. It was absolutely, fuppin, amazing. Watching it on VODs afterwards only confirmed what I already knew, that you 100,000+ who saw it from afar really didn't get what I got, which was an experience beyond what I thought StarCraft could be. So yeah, thank you everyone who participated, you made a great experience.
And TotalBiscuit; you may be a weird looking guy in top hat and wonky t-shirt, but you an admirable human being with great potential in this area of entertainment. May you be able to live off of it, so we can live off of you, together in bunnylike happiness.
TL;DR If you want to cater to the masses, which I assume you do as a producer, you have to realize that time is limited for most family men (AND women, of course :>). People look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching guys playing computer games. People still look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching a sports tournament live. Not many people can sacrifice that kind of time. Please look beyond nerds and try to make this e-sport more user friendly than it currently is. Otherwise it will consume both players, casters and fans before it has a chance to set "in the real world".
.. phew, long comment. Maybe I should've made a post instead.
On December 01 2011 02:16 Kutz wrote: Very interesting read. I have to admit, I am probably one of your more vocal skeptics when there is anyone around to hear it, but this post really deflated most of my points and I guess, in a way, you sir just won me over. To repay you and somehow extend your points I'm sharing my personal view of the Dreamhack tournament, but any tournament of the same magniture, and my thoughts on those.
Prioritize, please I experienced the exact same issues but from a spectators point of view. I too commented on the extremely strange decision to have the SteelSeries Arena seats next to a major pathway, surrounded by in comparison insignificant booths of retarded consumer hungry companies with no actual purpose other than earning more money. I still wonder when the actual hosting forces of these events will realize that StarCraft 2 IS the crowd magnet. It doesn't matter that the expansion isn't out yet, or that Blizzard felt they had no need to attend the largest LAN-party in the world with any of their products. StarCraft is still and will (in my dreams at least) remains the number one title in e-sports and contains the correct ingredients to turn it main stream. It's an exciting sport which, in theory, does not take long to watch. I mean sure, a few games went on for half an hour, but in general, every match is quite chewable. Personally I feel that all events have some kind of excitement issue going on. They all want to produce and present as much content as humanly possible over the course of 2-3 days, yet they forget that almost no sane person will be able to consume it all in one sitting. Sure, there's VOD's, but they are nowhere near as exciting as when it happens in real time, preferably live.
Overchewing So, it's not only you casters who are struggling at the moment. Us spectators have to deal with crowded (as fuck eventually) spaces and way too much content to really feel that it's worth it. The first two days when there were three streams going on at the same time, those of us in my party who were present at the live venue felt that it was really annoying missing out on two thirds of the matches. I mean, in any other sport, being AT the actual even is supposed to have perks considering they actually pay for it, but in this case, viewing the group matches was most likely more enjoyable from the couch at home. The DreamArena main stage where Day[9] and MrBitter casted from during the first and half of second days was amazing, but that too became crowded eventually, which considering the amount of games and hours of sitting time is rather insane if you hung out there the entire time. I did, and although I enjoyed it, it eventually felt like a calling (FOR E-SPORTS!!!) more than entertainment.
Look at other sports! So yeah, what did I realize during my time at Dreamhack? The organizers, the casters, and us fans, want so so much that we go to great extents trying to be a part of this. In fact, I think we're trying a little too hard at the wrong areas. Us who already enjoy this phenomenon are here to stay, no doubt about that. But the way the current trend is moving, we're making the sport almost impossible to enjoy for a "normal" human being. I mean, which other sport would compress this many games into three days? Hell, the only event I can think of that comes close to StarCraft e-sport would be the friggin' olympics, and that shit (summer olympics) contain 28 sports. Twenty eight. I don't actually know how long you'd sit and watch one hockey game at that arena normally, but I doubt people stay in those chairs for 8 hours generally. In any case, those chairs were NOT meant to sit in for 8 hours :p
Come on, did you like it or not? Loved it, actually. Even though I spent the nights in a sleeping bag on a concrete floor, surrounded by noisy, unruly, and by all means and measures, completely killable teenage dirtbags which allowed very little sleep, I had a blast over all. The semi finals and finals at Kinnarps Hockey Arena was by far the most enjoyable moment in StarCraft e-sports for me thus far, and the energy in that crowd and the games those players gave us together with my favourite casters in the flesh... aaahh man, men, women and everyone else, I really wish you could have been there. It was absolutely, fuppin, amazing. Watching it on VODs afterwards only confirmed what I already knew, that you 100,000+ who saw it from afar really didn't get what I got, which was an experience beyond what I thought StarCraft could be. So yeah, thank you everyone who participated, you made a great experience.
And TotalBiscuit; you may be a weird looking guy in top hat and wonky t-shirt, but you an admirable human being with great potential in this area of entertainment. May you be able to live off of it, so we can live off of you, together in bunnylike happiness.
TL;DR If you want to cater to the masses, which I assume you do as a producer, you have to realize that time is limited for most family men (AND women, of course :>). People look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching guys playing computer games. People still look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching a sports tournament live. Not many people can sacrifice that kind of time. Please look beyond nerds and try to make this e-sport more user friendly than it currently is. Otherwise it will consume both players, casters and fans before it has a chance to set "in the real world".
.. phew, long comment. Maybe I should've made a post instead.
edit: bold headerz is nize.
Well to be quite fair, no one really forces you to watch the whole thing. I think the thought behind it is that it's always supposed to be on. Kind of like a 24/7 TV channel or so. There's always something to watch, but no one expects you to watch it every second every hour every day. I don't really understand the complaint.
Open and honest piece, I appreciate. Writeup could use a revision to clear up typos, grammatical errors as well as presenting the ideas in a more clean and clear fashion, giving it a better chance getting the feedback across to people working at Dreamhack.
@Dreamhack
-Casting workload is terrible -Watching the games is an insane marathon. A good schedule (did I miss one such?) in the hands of Liquipedians would do wonders, akin to the MLG coverage -Camera crew need some improvement -Given the massive focus on Finals, the previous stages of the weekend, although enjoyable, could be improved a lot in terms of hosting and presentation
So, we arrived on saturday to Dreamhack. It is such a huge place and there were very few (and hard to interpret) maps around the place. As we later realized, day9/mrbitter and tasteosis casted backstage in some locker room somewhere i guess due to other games finals, there was no easily accessed information on this if any. And the steelseries stage could've been so much better located and set up in a larger area. We spent most of our time trying to figure out where we were going to go. And then trying to catch a glimpse of the game from behind the crowd. TLO and Sheth we actually got to see casting from the front row (eg. sitting on the floor), and that was really cool, they did a good job, but all in all I was dissappointed.
Then we went to the Kinnarps Arena where the semifinals and finals were played. I can safely say it was one of the most amazing experiences i've had this year, it was like going to a rock concert. I was like ecstatic the whole time and it was so cool to actually see the players and casters irl. Not to mention the actual games and the awesome support of the crowd.
Oh, and TB you did a great job, and you've improved much. Nice to hear that you're actually noticing all your fans and people who love what you do, rather than the minority of haters and trolls!
It was nice to see how both you and apollo improved quite a bit recently. I always thought you were pretty good play by play caster, but apollo got his game knowledge up a lot + both of you stopped using some generic phrases so it was pleasant experience to watch you guys cast.
Great write up, 5/5, but what makes this a great one is that you aren't afraid to man up and call yourself on your shortcomings.
Hope you get your no fly list shit worked out so you can finally come do MLG. Since your lil lady lives in NC, it would be awesome if you could make it to Raleigh next season/year.
I really like your youtube-channel and follow it with great interest, but.. your lack of knowledge of sc2 used to annoy me just too much when i watched u commentate and i didnt wanna watch it (gotta say i am a very picky and analytical person). Wich was ashame, because i like your personality, humour, enthusiasm, point of views etc. That was like 6 months ago.
Now after this Dreamhack. I dont mind your lack of in-dept-knowledge much, You seem at a good enough level of understanding for casting now. U improved a lot and you are just a very good host and entertainer, and that makes up for it. I feel its a joy to hear u cast now. I still love day9 the most, but i probably have more respect for you.
I really think many people kinda feel this way.
Keep doing what u do, because so many people are loving it. Wich is a beautifull thing.
Writing this is very pro of you TB, your feedback is invaluable for DH, the fans, and everybody that cares a bit about SC2.
I agree 100% with all you have written. I'd like to add that from an online spectator's point of view, DH always has the best production even though IPL was great and IEM is constantly improving (and GSL being very poor in that regard).
And D.Apollo is imo the greatest caster on the scene : he has an immense knowledge of the game, and knows how to pass it without showing off. He knows how to criticize a play without sounding overly negative and thus keeping excitement high. He adapts to the pace of the game very well, and spends time explaining the players' thoughts processes when possible, which is great imo. Your casting team is constantly improving, and you complement each other very well, so it's always a treat to have you both casting an event. I hope you keep casting together!
On December 01 2011 02:16 Kutz wrote: Very interesting read. I have to admit, I am probably one of your more vocal skeptics when there is anyone around to hear it, but this post really deflated most of my points and I guess, in a way, you sir just won me over. To repay you and somehow extend your points I'm sharing my personal view of the Dreamhack tournament, but any tournament of the same magniture, and my thoughts on those.
Prioritize, please I experienced the exact same issues but from a spectators point of view. I too commented on the extremely strange decision to have the SteelSeries Arena seats next to a major pathway, surrounded by in comparison insignificant booths of retarded consumer hungry companies with no actual purpose other than earning more money. I still wonder when the actual hosting forces of these events will realize that StarCraft 2 IS the crowd magnet. It doesn't matter that the expansion isn't out yet, or that Blizzard felt they had no need to attend the largest LAN-party in the world with any of their products. StarCraft is still and will (in my dreams at least) remains the number one title in e-sports and contains the correct ingredients to turn it main stream. It's an exciting sport which, in theory, does not take long to watch. I mean sure, a few games went on for half an hour, but in general, every match is quite chewable. Personally I feel that all events have some kind of excitement issue going on. They all want to produce and present as much content as humanly possible over the course of 2-3 days, yet they forget that almost no sane person will be able to consume it all in one sitting. Sure, there's VOD's, but they are nowhere near as exciting as when it happens in real time, preferably live.
Overchewing So, it's not only you casters who are struggling at the moment. Us spectators have to deal with crowded (as fuck eventually) spaces and way too much content to really feel that it's worth it. The first two days when there were three streams going on at the same time, those of us in my party who were present at the live venue felt that it was really annoying missing out on two thirds of the matches. I mean, in any other sport, being AT the actual even is supposed to have perks considering they actually pay for it, but in this case, viewing the group matches was most likely more enjoyable from the couch at home. The DreamArena main stage where Day[9] and MrBitter casted from during the first and half of second days was amazing, but that too became crowded eventually, which considering the amount of games and hours of sitting time is rather insane if you hung out there the entire time. I did, and although I enjoyed it, it eventually felt like a calling (FOR E-SPORTS!!!) more than entertainment.
Look at other sports! So yeah, what did I realize during my time at Dreamhack? The organizers, the casters, and us fans, want so so much that we go to great extents trying to be a part of this. In fact, I think we're trying a little too hard at the wrong areas. Us who already enjoy this phenomenon are here to stay, no doubt about that. But the way the current trend is moving, we're making the sport almost impossible to enjoy for a "normal" human being. I mean, which other sport would compress this many games into three days? Hell, the only event I can think of that comes close to StarCraft e-sport would be the friggin' olympics, and that shit (summer olympics) contain 28 sports. Twenty eight. I don't actually know how long you'd sit and watch one hockey game at that arena normally, but I doubt people stay in those chairs for 8 hours generally. In any case, those chairs were NOT meant to sit in for 8 hours :p
Come on, did you like it or not? Loved it, actually. Even though I spent the nights in a sleeping bag on a concrete floor, surrounded by noisy, unruly, and by all means and measures, completely killable teenage dirtbags which allowed very little sleep, I had a blast over all. The semi finals and finals at Kinnarps Hockey Arena was by far the most enjoyable moment in StarCraft e-sports for me thus far, and the energy in that crowd and the games those players gave us together with my favourite casters in the flesh... aaahh man, men, women and everyone else, I really wish you could have been there. It was absolutely, fuppin, amazing. Watching it on VODs afterwards only confirmed what I already knew, that you 100,000+ who saw it from afar really didn't get what I got, which was an experience beyond what I thought StarCraft could be. So yeah, thank you everyone who participated, you made a great experience.
And TotalBiscuit; you may be a weird looking guy in top hat and wonky t-shirt, but you an admirable human being with great potential in this area of entertainment. May you be able to live off of it, so we can live off of you, together in bunnylike happiness.
TL;DR If you want to cater to the masses, which I assume you do as a producer, you have to realize that time is limited for most family men (AND women, of course :>). People look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching guys playing computer games. People still look at you strange if you tell them you just spent 14 hours a day for three days watching a sports tournament live. Not many people can sacrifice that kind of time. Please look beyond nerds and try to make this e-sport more user friendly than it currently is. Otherwise it will consume both players, casters and fans before it has a chance to set "in the real world".
.. phew, long comment. Maybe I should've made a post instead.
edit: bold headerz is nize.
Well to be quite fair, no one really forces you to watch the whole thing. I think the thought behind it is that it's always supposed to be on. Kind of like a 24/7 TV channel or so. There's always something to watch, but no one expects you to watch it every second every hour every day. I don't really understand the complaint.
I read you, and yes, watching the entire tournament is indeed a choice, but an impossible one if you're at the venue itself, given that three games are played simultaneously. So you missed that point, too much content in too short a time makes it *impossible* to experience it all, despite the short timespan during which the tournament takes place. And this is just one sport. I compared it to the Olympics considering that shit too is on all the time with plenty of competitions run simultaneously, but that event consists of *different* sports. If I want to follow say the 1000 m for men, then I could do so without that much problem. If I want to follow three or four (or heck, all of them, because I am that kinda guy) then yes, it would be difficult. It should not be the case for a StarCraft 2 tournament.
Secondly, and maybe this point did not come through as clearly considering I pretty much lost my original train of though by the end of that comment, if you were at the live venue during the finals, that shit went on from 17:30 till way past midnight. I believe it was around 01:xx but I'm not sure. I guess your reply would be to get the hell out of that chair during the Street Fighter and Quake finals, right? Well if that's the solution, then clearly those two finals should not have been shown in that venue at all, and even if you remove those, it's still way longer than any football or hockey match in one sitting.
Again, I am comparing this to "real" sports, and they don't have that same issue. This is still *one* sport, one tournament, and it's way too crammed at the moment.
On November 30 2011 03:37 Patriot.dlk wrote: Great post thanks a lot for your casting and for posting this. I do however think you are wrong in your coach conclusion.
Some people are play-by-play orientated commentators and TB is the best one of these by far. It only adds to your credibility that you realize this. This is also why the ball should have been dropped from tastosis to you and not day[9]. You should have been the one to go "holy shit I hope I didn't interrupt the cast with my pounding heart I definitively felt Hero had the lead at several points..." And THEN the others can drop their analysis and after that you can wrap and give it back to casters.
Day[9] definitively takes to much room and comes off as pretty full of himself (This is my personal opinion and it's unrelated to the point above, still a day[9] fan but imo he needs to chill a little
In Day[9]'s defense I don't think it's actually a full of himself thing at all. I just think he is genuinely that excited by Starcraft, and seriously, he's a professional grade commentator capable of carrying off a tournament cast by himself.
HOWEVER.
TB and Apollo compliment each other perfectly and I genuinely look forward to watching your casts, TB. Never stop. You're awesome <3
The problem is that TB does not and has not ever done a GREAT job casting. While he is an entertaining personality that has a lot of fans, he does not know enough about the game to not sound entirely out of his depth. The casters in sports tournaments are retired professionals or respected authorities, and the same is said for 99% of the SC2 casters in the Esports community.
Jamie Redknapp is a retired professional footballer. His vocabulary is limited to expressions of how TOP a player is. Gary Neville, arguably not as pivotal a player for his club, is a vastly better pundit.
Sports commentators mostly speak in nonsensical cliches. TB is arguably better than most professional casters for this reason - he doesn't speak in cliches at all.
I'll be quite honest TB, I was once skeptical of your commentary. However, I was simply blown away by your performance at Dreamhack. It was extraordinary. And myself, a huge Tastosis fan boy, often found myself preferring your stream to theirs. I also want to commend your partnership with dApollo. You guys complement each other extremely well. Between Dreamhack and this insightful blog entry (props), you have won yourself a fan. Keep up your great work, and know that it is appreciated. Come to the US (east coast please :D)!
I appreciate honesty in every form, and it warms my heart a little that you are so blatantly truthful about the state of affairs. There is good, there is bad, there is praise and there is disappointment, but true knowledge lies in being able to put all those facets together into one. Do I believe that you have amazing game knowledge on par with the others on the couch? No, I really don't. But am I completely enthralled and entertained by your sexy voice, humour, and casting chops. Yes, indeed. Like you said, there's more to a caster than knowing what to do. There is presence, and you are one of the most present personalities out there ^^