I started using cannabis on a daily basis in early 2010. Before that I was a very casual user and had used at random times since I was 13 years old (parties, special occasions, etc). But as I realized that I could smoke at night, have a great time, and wake up in the morning, not only without a hangover, but also feeling more rested than when I didn’t smoke, I began to use more regularly since it wasn’t bringing anything negative to my life and was definitely adding a lot of positives. Fun times, good laughs, deeper connection and conversations with my wife, less stress, etc.
Today in 2011 I have been using on a daily basis for about 2 years. The only break I’ve taken over the last two years is for a week while visiting family on the east coast during Christmas. Last year I made the journey, wondering if I would feel any sort of withdrawal symptoms. I never had before, but I also had never smoked daily for a year straight, so I didn’t know what to expect. According to the government, I was in for a hard time of:
• Sweating • Sleeplessness • Anxiety • Drug craving • Nausea • Anger and Irritability • Headaches • Loss of appetite
I landed on the east coast and the week passed uneventfully. The first 24 hours without cannabis resulted in a slight headache. That was it. I returned home and began my routine of daily use again, and maintained it until now. Here I sit again on the east coast, and yet again, the only “symptom” I’ve had is the occasional headache which fades quickly, especially if I do some yoga or distract my mind through something as simple as watching TV. I wondered whether maybe one year of daily use wasn’t enough to draw out symptoms, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Despite the fact that over the last year I have increased the frequency and quantity which I smoke, no withdrawal symptoms have found their way into my vacation beyond that headache, which I’d rank at about a three on a scale of 1-5, and which only lasts for a few minutes if I don’t take any action to reduce it via Yoga, etc.
I am only one person, and I am in great physical shape (the best of my life, better than when I was on the starting lineup on offense and defense for my high school football team), and I have a loving family, fantastic wife, and a lot of psychological stability and strength. I’m sure those all help reduce any potential withdrawal symptoms. My guess is that the hardest part of quitting daily cannabis use for most people is the psychological dependence, just like it’s tough to stop daily Starcraft use when you absolutely love it. I entered this week without weed “cold turkey”, and even though I have an edible in my bag which I could take at anytime to get high, I haven’t even thought about it until I started writing this post.
So I’m here to tell you that after daily use for two years (minus that one week I took off during last year’s holidays), the symptoms have been extremely mild and basically no different than if I drank a bunch of soda and neglected water for a day or two. On top of that, I began daily use in 2010 before returning to college, and over the last 2 years I’ve completed 4 semesters and received straight A’s in all of my classes, made the dean’s list, received several scholarships including the most prestigious one awarded by the psychology department (which is my major), taken leadership roles in multiple clubs and established good friendships with about a dozen professors and university administrators. In other words, the daily use, and even heavy daily use of the past year, hasn’t ruined my life. On the contrary, I have no doubt that it has made my life better. My physical health and immune system are at my lifetime peak, my creative thinking and problem solving has improved dramatically, my memory is better than at any time in my life, and my relationships with friends and family are deeper and more fulfilling than I ever knew possible. Cannabis didn’t cause all of these things to happen on its own, but it definitely helped them to be possible, either through the psychological changes it helped produce (reduced stress, creative thinking, open mindedness, empathy, and increased laughter and joy) or through the healing effects it provided, as cannabis has been used as a medicine for over 200 ailments over thousands of years.
The most important lesson I’ve learned about how to use cannabis in a way that improves one’s life is to use responsibly. I often use a vaporizer to protect my lungs from inhaling burnt plant matter, and avoid joints and pipes as much as possible, preferring a water pipe if I don’t vaporize. I don’t get up and smoke a bowl and go to class. I wait till my work for the day is done and then I smoke. But there are tasks I can do very efficiently while high – cleaning the house, watching and learning from TED talks, running basic errands. As tolerance develops and a person moves from acute to chronic use, the effects of cannabis change, and the body and mind learn how to compensate, allowing a chronic user to complete tasks while high that an acute user would find difficult. For example, playing a game of Starcraft. As an acute (occasional) user I had a lot of trouble playing SC2 while high – as a chronic user that difficulty has disappeared. So it’s important to be self aware and disciplined, and to make sure that you are using responsibly, which means that your use doesn’t get in the way of achieving the things you must get done.
There are many myths about cannabis which have been debunked for years, but the mainstream culture hasn’t caught on to the truth yet due to continued government propaganda. I’m writing this post because I hate lies, I hate injustice, and I hate being manipulated or watching others manipulated by corrupt, greedy, or morally zealous people in power. A shift is coming and 75 years of lies are finally starting to crumble. I hope that this post can help push that shift right along.
PS - There is no doubt that some people do have withdrawal symptoms, but that is a small minority of users and only seems to happen to long term heavy users. The vast majority of people will have no withdrawal symptoms or very minor ones like what I experienced. Some people have addictive personalities or are bio-chemically different in a way that makes them susceptible to addiction. Those people should be very careful about what they put in their body. But for anti-cannabis zealots to claim that cannabis is addictive with severe withdrawal symptoms is extremely disingenuous, misleading, and flat out wrong.
Great post! I have been a daily user of marijuana for the last 12 years. smoking roughly 2-3 joints per day, everyday. I too do not feel much of a withdrawl when I can not smoke it for a week or so (when working out of town etc), and really only start to feel crappy if I leave my mind to sit and think about it over and over. If I can find something else to do, like watching tv as you pointed out, then I feel no real withdrawl symptoms at all. I find that if you can prioritize things in your life, then smoking daily has no negative effect on my life in general, and has become something that I can look forward to every evening to help me wind down after a hard 10-12hrs at work each day.
I'mm quitting for a few months because I have to. I similarly don't anticipate any withdrawal :D then again I wasn't really a "chronic" user () by your definition. vape is da shit though ^^
if you can think of anything (anyone), i would be interested to hear more about "responsible" cannabis use like tips, tricks, mindsets etc
it probably all comes down to setting personal boundaries, like "dont smoke before you've done everything otherwise you wont do anything" , as you said, but can you add any more to that?
i smoke weed instead of booze but find weed also rediculously addictive/alluring. i got thru alcoholism so i guess i should apply similar principles to forming discipline around weed. the problem is you always say "ill do it tomorrow" and come tomorrow you have one joint and suddenly everything is left for another tomorrow. idk anyway, ive just ran out and probably cant get any for another couple weeks. bloody typical to run out when you have a major sick cold and could really do with it!!!
On December 20 2011 06:47 FFGenerations wrote: if you can think of anything (anyone), i would be interested to hear more about "responsible" cannabis use like tips, tricks, mindsets etc
it probably all comes down to setting personal boundaries, like "dont smoke before you've done everything otherwise you wont do anything" , as you said, but can you add any more to that?
i smoke weed instead of booze but find weed also rediculously addictive/alluring. i got thru alcoholism so i guess i should apply similar principles to forming discipline around weed. the problem is you always say "ill do it tomorrow" and come tomorrow you have one joint and suddenly everything is left for another tomorrow. idk anyway, ive just ran out and probably cant get any for another couple weeks. bloody typical to run out when you have a major sick cold and could really do with it!!!
I personally find the best time to smoke weed is after you have finished all of the days tasks, and you can just sit back and enjoy the rest of the evening. I view it as a treat waiting for me after im done with everything. It makes it much more worth while being able to sit down knowing you have completed everything for the day, and now is the moment you have been waiting for.
Secondly, For me personally, once I smoke a little bit, I naturally want to keep smoking more, as I find the process itself just as enjoyable as the effects given. Because of this reason, I tend to wait as long as I can before smoking so that I dont just end up smoking weed all day and come to bed really burnt out and groggy feeling. If you can force yourself to wait as long as possible before smoking, you will see that it becomes more enjoyable, and can be something you use to limit your overall intake of marijuana.
I'm doing really well. I do miss the good old days but I'm living a very different life now which I'm loving a lot. So it all works out. I hope someday to take my psychology degree and come back to work with the BW / SC2 / Poker communities - I have a lot of ideas of brain studies, etc, that would be so much fun to do.
Ricewife, the reason they don't legalize it has nothing to do with what you just pointed out. If you look at who's fighting against legalization, you find alcohol and tobacco companies (who stand to lose a lot of market share to cannabis), prison guard unions (who advocate for harsher laws on non-violent offenders, especially cannabis users, because it keeps beds full and their jobs secure), and other groups mainly out to ensure their profit. There are also religious and moral zealots who have been brainwashed into thinking cannabis is evil and destructive, so they fight it tooth and nail.
You are in the minority when it comes to withdrawal symptoms. Like I said in the post script, there are people who have those withdrawal symptoms. But the fact that a small minority reacts that way doesn't mean that the majority, who don't have those results, should be put in jail for using it, or that we should be telling everyone to be scared of the painful withdrawals that will come if you use weed. Withdrawal symptoms from caffeine are ranked as more painful than those of cannabis, and we aren't running around telling people to stop visiting Starbucks.
FFGenerations, it's a matter of building discipline. Also, use the cannabis as a reward - "once I get this done, I get to toke it up". Drugs, sex, and food are primary reinforcers and ideal for training a person into new behaviors. Use it to train yourself by setting up those types of contingencies. Another trick is to surround yourself with people who use responsibly. Social environment has a huge effect on drug use patterns. And if you are having difficulty, restrict the amount you keep in the house. Buy smaller quantities and try and make them last as long as possible. That helps you reduce your use. Hopefully some of that is useful. =)
On December 20 2011 06:11 sMi.NewB wrote: There is no doubt that some people do have withdrawal symptoms, but that is a small minority of users and only seems to happen to long term heavy users. The vast majority of people will have no withdrawal symptoms or very minor ones like what I experienced. Some people have addictive personalities or are bio-chemically different in a way that makes them susceptible to addiction. Those people should be very careful about what they put in their body. But for anti-cannabis zealots to claim that cannabis is addictive with severe withdrawal symptoms is extremely disingenuous, misleading, and flat out wrong.
Cannabis withdrawl is not a function of the drug itself; its a common description among all substances capable of addiction due to the reward system of the brain. Input -> feel good -> want more -> dont get it -> withdrawl-like symptoms. from a psychological point of view, some people can easily overcome this, while others cannot. i used to think myself as a very strong willed person yet i went through withdrawl myself at one point in my life. i did manage to not go through withdrawl on my second attempt at quitting and have been weed-free for a while now. so please, you cannot simply state, for a fact, which is a minority and which is a majority, people will never know until they reach that point.
i understand you are trying to speak out against the marijana 'myths' and im totally with you. but like many others who do this, try not to act like you are an encyclopedia on the subject.
Anyway, whether, or how much, cannabis is physically addictive has never been the reason I oppose it. It's the mental addiction. What mental addiction? Well, I've never tried it, but I have known plenty of people that have and, by far, the majority thinks it's the greatest travesty in America for the stuff to be illegal. That is really all I need to know to see there is more going on here than some physical addiction. It's like some fountain of youth that the government doesn't want people using because we'll run out of social security money or something. Friends of mine that were cannabis users seemed to think more about it and less about anything else as time passed.
On December 20 2011 06:58 sMi.NewB wrote: You are in the minority when it comes to withdrawal symptoms. Like I said in the post script, there are people who have those withdrawal symptoms. But the fact that a small minority reacts that way doesn't mean that the majority, who don't have those results, should be put in jail for using it, or that we should be telling everyone to be scared of the painful withdrawals that will come if you use weed. Withdrawal symptoms from caffeine are ranked as more painful than those of cannabis, and we aren't running around telling people to stop visiting Starbucks.
I've actually been trying to figure out the science of cannabis withdrawal, for my own curiosity. But it's been a little difficult for me to determine what the papers are actually saying. I've seen some evidence that cannabis withdrawal (this is the term to put into pubmed if you want to look into it yourself) symptoms are similar to nicotine withdrawal symptoms in severity (although cravings are somewhat less severe for cannabis). However, I'm not sure if this applies to all users, or only to users who qualify as dependent. The percentage of cannabis users that qualify as dependent should be around 10%... small, but non-negligible. I believe that a much higher percentage of nicotine users meet the criterion for dependence.
I'd really like to understand the research better at some point... I think it's possible to be an advocate for legalization or decriminalization, without pretending that withdrawal doesn't happen.
On December 20 2011 06:11 sMi.NewB wrote: There is no doubt that some people do have withdrawal symptoms, but that is a small minority of users and only seems to happen to long term heavy users. The vast majority of people will have no withdrawal symptoms or very minor ones like what I experienced. Some people have addictive personalities or are bio-chemically different in a way that makes them susceptible to addiction. Those people should be very careful about what they put in their body. But for anti-cannabis zealots to claim that cannabis is addictive with severe withdrawal symptoms is extremely disingenuous, misleading, and flat out wrong.
Cannabis withdrawl is not a function of the drug itself; its a common description among all substances capable of addiction due to the reward system of the brain. Input -> feel good -> want more -> dont get it -> withdrawl-like symptoms. from a psychological point of view, some people can easily overcome this, while others cannot. i used to think myself as a very strong willed person yet i went through withdrawl myself at one point in my life. i did manage to not go through withdrawl on my second attempt at quitting and have been weed-free for a while now. so please, you cannot simply state, for a fact, which is a minority and which is a majority, people will never know until they reach that point.
i understand you are trying to speak out against the marijana 'myths' and im totally with you. but like many others who do this, try not to act like you are an encyclopedia on the subject.
I agree that all drugs have a psychological aspect to the addiction which I think you described well. But there are different physical withdrawal symptoms for different drugs - like you can actually die from alcohol withdrawals because of the location of receptors in the brainstem and the shock to the system. The list that the govt puts out isn't wrong, but it only applies to a small minority. I'm sorry I didn't quote the sources, didn't feel like presenting a paper, but the stats support my statement that it is a minority of people who report those symptoms. Here's some more official people with PhD's and MD's explaining the realities after doing a meta-review of all the studies conducted over the past 50 years:
Cannabis and Addiction
Most people who smoke marijuana smoke it only occasionally. A small minority of Americans - less than 1 percent - smoke marijuana on a daily or near daily basis. An even smaller minority develop dependence on marijuana. Some people who smoke marijuana heavily and frequently stop without difficulty. Others seek help from drug treatment professionals. Marijuana does not cause physical dependence. If people experience withdrawal symptoms at all, they are remarkably mild.
-In a study conducted at the Federal Narcotics Hospital in Lexington, Kentucky in the 1960s, ten men were kept constantly “high” with at least one marijuana cigarette during every waking hour for thirty days. Upon the abrupt cessation of smoking, no withdrawal symptoms were evident.
-In a recent survey, 16 percent of high-dose marijuana users reported some withdrawal symptoms upon quitting, most commonly nervousness and sleep disturbance. (As marijuana has the effect of relaxing users and helping them sleep, this might be seen more as a return to baseline)
-A 1991 U.S. Department of Health and Human Services report to congress states that: “Given the large population of marijuana users and the infrequent reports of medical problems from stopping use, tolerance and dependence are not major issues at present.”
-Two pharmacologists independently ranked the dependence potential of six psychoactive drugs: caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, heroin, cocaine, and marijuana. Both ranked caffeine and marijuana as the two least addictive, one ranking marijuana as slightly less addicting than caffeine.
Source: Lynn Zimmer, Ph.D and John P. Morgan, M.D. “Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts.”
It effects a lot of sleep receptors in some way i guess, that's bound to have long term effects upon stopping. I wasn't aware anyone tried saying much different from the OP really... most people have mild/minor problems. I just came of a year of opiate use, with 2 weeks of withdrawals. It magnitudes more painful than any of this, it's just misleading people to be using the term withdrawals when what comes to mind is from opiate/benzo/alcohol abuse (the latter 2 even worse).
On December 20 2011 06:58 sMi.NewB wrote: You are in the minority when it comes to withdrawal symptoms. Like I said in the post script, there are people who have those withdrawal symptoms. But the fact that a small minority reacts that way doesn't mean that the majority, who don't have those results, should be put in jail for using it, or that we should be telling everyone to be scared of the painful withdrawals that will come if you use weed. Withdrawal symptoms from caffeine are ranked as more painful than those of cannabis, and we aren't running around telling people to stop visiting Starbucks.
I've actually been trying to figure out the science of cannabis withdrawal, for my own curiosity. But it's been a little difficult for me to determine what the papers are actually saying. I've seen some evidence that cannabis withdrawal (this is the term to put into pubmed if you want to look into it yourself) symptoms are similar to nicotine withdrawal symptoms in severity (although cravings are somewhat less severe for cannabis). However, I'm not sure if this applies to all users, or only to users who qualify as dependent. The percentage of cannabis users that qualify as dependent should be around 10%... small, but non-negligible. I believe that a much higher percentage of nicotine users meet the criterion for dependence.
I'd really like to understand the research better at some point... I think it's possible to be an advocate for legalization or decriminalization, without pretending that withdrawal doesn't happen.
Yeah I've had fun digging through those primary studies myself - thankfully my major in psychology trains me how to read them. Before my schooling it was hell trying to get through those things, hehe. My post above has the findings of some scientists that reviewed the last 50 years of studies, so I'd suggest checking that out for a good overview. I agree that there are withdrawal symptoms and didn't intend to suggest that there weren't - hence the post script. But if only a small minority of SC players are hermaphrodites, I think the right thing to say is that "most SC players are normal" and not "those SC players are hermaphrodites!". Yes, there's no doubt that some people face these symptoms, but the vast majority either face no symptoms or very minor versions of those symptoms. Only a small amount actually feel a severe withdrawal symptom that is worse than caffeine withdrawal.
On December 20 2011 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote: It effects a lot of sleep receptors in some way i guess, that's bound to have long term effects upon stopping. I wasn't aware anyone tried saying much different from the OP really... most people have mild/minor problems. I just came of a year of opiate use, with 2 weeks of withdrawals. It magnitudes more painful than any of this, it's just misleading people to be using the term withdrawals when what comes to mind is from opiate/benzo/alcohol abuse (the latter 2 even worse).
That's a really important point and I wish I'd thought to make it. Thanks for saying it!
I am also a chronic user......I have been smoking for about 10 years now without many significant breaks....I am very responsible, have a B.S. in genetics/cell biology, a good job, and am a very responsible person.
I have quit over the years due to travel, business, or whatever, and I have experienced some withdrawals. I can and will walk away from weed when I need to, or I want to take a tolerance break. When I quit I ALWAYS get sleeplessness. My mind races and it feels like I can't relax properly. This will go away after the first night or two, and my appetite is a little sluggish, but other than that I get no other withdrawal symptoms.
I'd really like to understand the research better at some point
What is happening with all addictions is something like this. (bear in mind this is the short version and I wont go into biochemical and enzymatic pathways) When weed is smoked, our lungs filter the cannabanoids into out blood stream. these particles then get carried to our brains. In our brains, are chemical receptors, that have structures on the outsides of them that recognize, and bind with particles. THC has a specific receptor in the brain. (this has recently been confirmed via tel-aviv university) This receptor takes those THC particles, binds with them, and sends a corresponding signal that makes us feel high. After prolonged use of these receptors, they get used to the activity of sending signals, so it take more and more of a certain particle to make them "react". If you're a heavy user who suddenly quits one day, the receptors in question are in a state of shock, and send false positive signals to the brain, which makes you crave, anxious, grumpy, or whatever the symptoms maybe of whatever drug you prefer.
In a nutshell that is what is happening. I have a BS in genetics/cell molecular bio and I have more questions now than I ever did. Hope this helps and I will be glad to try and answer any other questions you might have.
sMi.NewB and MaliciousMirth, thanks! I think I just need to read more research papers. But if you have any good pubmed links, I'd be glad to have them for later. (The survey sounds good as well.)
Edit. One immediate question I have: how is dependence related to withdrawal symptoms? For example, would you only expect dependent users to experience symptoms? Or conversely, is dependence not correlated with withdrawal symptoms? Does this depend on the substance in question?
On December 20 2011 07:46 MaliciousMirth wrote: I am also a chronic user......I have been smoking for about 10 years now without many significant breaks....I am very responsible, have a B.S. in genetics/cell biology, a good job, and am a very responsible person.
I have quit over the years due to travel, business, or whatever, and I have experienced some withdrawals. I can and will walk away from weed when I need to, or I want to take a tolerance break. When I quit I ALWAYS get sleeplessness. My mind races and it feels like I can't relax properly. This will go away after the first night or two, and my appetite is a little sluggish, but other than that I get no other withdrawal symptoms.
I'd really like to understand the research better at some point
What is happening with all addictions is something like this. (bear in mind this is the short version and I wont go into biochemical and enzymatic pathways) When weed is smoked, our lungs filter the cannabanoids into out blood stream. these particles then get carried to our brains. In our brains, are chemical receptors, that have structures on the outsides of them that recognize, and bind with particles. THC has a specific receptor in the brain. (this has recently been confirmed via tel-aviv university) This receptor takes those THC particles, binds with them, and sends a corresponding signal that makes us feel high. After prolonged use of these receptors, they get used to the activity of sending signals, so it take more and more of a certain particle to make them "react". If you're a heavy user who suddenly quits one day, the receptors in question are in a state of shock, and send false positive signals to the brain, which makes you crave, anxious, grumpy, or whatever the symptoms maybe of whatever drug you prefer.
In a nutshell that is what is happening. I have a BS in genetics/cell molecular bio and I have more questions now than I ever did. Hope this helps and I will be glad to try and answer any other questions you might have.
That's a very accurate description. With cannabis, the receptors "down-regulate" which can be thought of as THC being a key, and the receptor being a lock, and when the receptors down-regulate the lock is blocked so the key can't go in. That's the way I like to describe it, hehe. When you stop using, you have less receptors available to receive keys, and therefore the system is a bit lopsided, causing withdrawal symptoms. Like we've stated, for most people these are non-existant or minor. The receptors up-regulate at a decent speed, hence a few nights of sleeplessness for MaliciousMirth before enough receptors are available for the bodies naturally produced THC (called anandamide) to bind to and get things running normally again.
I hope my piggy backing actually made things clearer and didn't make it more confusing, hehe.
i am very happy to see this. When I first started smoking, I would smoke to get high and be cool and to get a good high school reputation. However that all wore off going into my senior year, but then I realized that weed could be used for so much more rather then just getting high.
I wasn't sure until I read this that I would be able to keep up good grades and lead a responsible life if I kept smoking, but it's been a couple months now and everything seems fine. The most important thing I have to stress here is that it is important when you smoke and for what. For me, I smoke AFTER all my work is done and also at night. Essentially its a very helpful drug that has no bad effects to my life other then the cost and my tolerance level :s
On December 20 2011 08:15 munchmunch wrote: sMi.NewB and MaliciousMirth, thanks! I think I just need to read more research papers. But if you have any good pubmed links, I'd be glad to have them for later. (The survey sounds good as well.)
Edit. One immediate question I have: how is dependence related to withdrawal symptoms? For example, would you only expect dependent users to experience symptoms? Or conversely, is dependence not correlated with withdrawal symptoms? Does this depend on the substance in question?
You need dependence to have any sort of bio-chemically induced withdrawal symptoms. If you are an acute (occasional) user, your receptors won't down-regulate enough to make a difference once you stop using. You need to use on a consistent basis to get enough receptors to down-regulate to feel things like headache, sleeplessness, etc. I like to think of dependence as meaning you've had enough receptors down-regulate so that if you stop adding THC to the system, the body will be unbalanced since the natural THC will not have enough receptors to tap and create normal body functioning. The reason for that is the bodies natural THC (anandamide) has a much smaller effect than THC from the plant does, so for the anandamide to work properly you need enough receptors available to receive it.
I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't.
On December 20 2011 08:47 Br3ezy wrote:The most important thing I have to stress here is that it is important when you smoke and for what. For me, I smoke AFTER all my work is done and also at night. Essentially its a very helpful drug that has no bad effects to my life other then the cost and my tolerance level :s
That is exactly right! And I believe the best way to deal with drug abuse in this country is to create a culture of responsible use, where the regular view of how to use cannabis reflects what you stated above.
On December 20 2011 07:09 Velr wrote: Ahm... Arent these the withdrawal symptoms when smoking Tobaco? I imagine the ones, if there are any, of cannabis would be diffrent?
Google "NIDA Cannabis Withdrawal" and you'll get the govt's official list. NIDA = National Institute on Drug Abuse, the government entity which tries its damndest to prove that cannabis is bad for us and ignores research done around the rest of the world which contradicts their bias studies.
On December 20 2011 08:47 Br3ezy wrote:The most important thing I have to stress here is that it is important when you smoke and for what. For me, I smoke AFTER all my work is done and also at night. Essentially its a very helpful drug that has no bad effects to my life other then the cost and my tolerance level :s
That is exactly right! And I believe the best way to deal with drug abuse in this country is to create a culture of responsible use, where the regular view of how to use cannabis reflects what you stated above.
out of curiosity, how much do you usually go through in lets say a week of regular toking?
On December 20 2011 08:15 munchmunch wrote: sMi.NewB and MaliciousMirth, thanks! I think I just need to read more research papers. But if you have any good pubmed links, I'd be glad to have them for later. (The survey sounds good as well.)
Edit. One immediate question I have: how is dependence related to withdrawal symptoms? For example, would you only expect dependent users to experience symptoms? Or conversely, is dependence not correlated with withdrawal symptoms? Does this depend on the substance in question?
You need dependence to have any sort of bio-chemically induced withdrawal symptoms. If you are an acute (occasional) user, your receptors won't down-regulate enough to make a difference once you stop using. You need to use on a consistent basis to get enough receptors to down-regulate to feel things like headache, sleeplessness, etc. I like to think of dependence as meaning you've had enough receptors down-regulate so that if you stop adding THC to the system, the body will be unbalanced since the natural THC will not have enough receptors to tap and create normal body functioning. The reason for that is the bodies natural THC (anandamide) has a much smaller effect than THC from the plant does, so for the anandamide to work properly you need enough receptors available to receive it.
I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't.
I see. Looking again, I see there is a wikipedia entry for physical dependence, which I missed, and which is very helpful. However, that article claims that cannabis does not cause physical dependence. Is that correct? Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms like headaches or nausea if you only have psychological dependence?
On December 20 2011 08:15 munchmunch wrote: sMi.NewB and MaliciousMirth, thanks! I think I just need to read more research papers. But if you have any good pubmed links, I'd be glad to have them for later. (The survey sounds good as well.)
Edit. One immediate question I have: how is dependence related to withdrawal symptoms? For example, would you only expect dependent users to experience symptoms? Or conversely, is dependence not correlated with withdrawal symptoms? Does this depend on the substance in question?
You need dependence to have any sort of bio-chemically induced withdrawal symptoms. If you are an acute (occasional) user, your receptors won't down-regulate enough to make a difference once you stop using. You need to use on a consistent basis to get enough receptors to down-regulate to feel things like headache, sleeplessness, etc. I like to think of dependence as meaning you've had enough receptors down-regulate so that if you stop adding THC to the system, the body will be unbalanced since the natural THC will not have enough receptors to tap and create normal body functioning. The reason for that is the bodies natural THC (anandamide) has a much smaller effect than THC from the plant does, so for the anandamide to work properly you need enough receptors available to receive it.
I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't.
I see. Looking again, I see there is a wikipedia entry for physical dependence, which I missed, and which is very helpful. However, that article claims that cannabis does not cause physical dependence. Is that correct? Is it possible to have withdrawal symptoms like headaches or nausea if you only have psychological dependence?
Yes. A psychological addiction is still physical in the sense that the chemicals in your brain react in ways that cause the symptoms listed in the OP, some of which would probably be enhanced since they stopped using Marijuana which naturally causes anti-anxiety and is a sleep and hunger aid.
On December 20 2011 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote: It effects a lot of sleep receptors in some way i guess, that's bound to have long term effects upon stopping. I wasn't aware anyone tried saying much different from the OP really... most people have mild/minor problems. I just came of a year of opiate use, with 2 weeks of withdrawals. It magnitudes more painful than any of this, it's just misleading people to be using the term withdrawals when what comes to mind is from opiate/benzo/alcohol abuse (the latter 2 even worse).
Haha, your post made me think of this scene
I always laugh when I hear people say they're going off-weed and use the expression ''cold turkey''. My bet is if they'd have to spend 1 hour with an actual addict going cold turkey they'd shit their pants.
On December 20 2011 07:32 infinity2k9 wrote: It effects a lot of sleep receptors in some way i guess, that's bound to have long term effects upon stopping. I wasn't aware anyone tried saying much different from the OP really... most people have mild/minor problems. I just came of a year of opiate use, with 2 weeks of withdrawals. It magnitudes more painful than any of this, it's just misleading people to be using the term withdrawals when what comes to mind is from opiate/benzo/alcohol abuse (the latter 2 even worse).
I always laugh when I hear people say they're going off-weed and use the expression ''cold turkey''. My bet is if they'd have to spend 1 hour with an actual addict going cold turkey they'd shit their pants.
lol@ at the bob saget
I started at 16, I'm 23. I won't ever stop, in my mind at the moment. However, going 2-3 days without, I feel the same shit. I'm mr meeeeeeeeeeean without. It's hard to go around that beast. Time is the ultimate healer.
On December 20 2011 08:48 sMi.NewB wrote: I think that it is possible to develop a psychological dependence on cannabis without having any sort of physical dependence. For example, you smoke a few times a week and really love it and feel like it is important to you, and then you are prevented from accessing cannabis. You could have the same reaction as you would if someone took SC2 away from you - "wtf I want to play, this sucks!". But that's not due to receptor down-regulation, that's just cause you wanna do something you like and you can't.
this is the grey area where its hard for people to differentiate psychological and physiological dependence, something i tried to touch on earlier, when in reality its one in the same due to the brain-reward system
I don't know. I've been smoking for a while, find it as hard or harder to quit that as I do cigarettes. I pretty much experience all the "symptoms" they say you should, on a very minor scale. It's certainly nothing like heroin or meth, or even coke, but in my opinion it's definitely addicting on some level. '
It's a touchy issue with a lot of people, but the honest truth is that I don't meet many people who started smoking weed that have then quit. There's been a few, but the majority of them smoke for a long time, and when they do quit, they end up experiencing withdrawal. Now, keep in mind that I don't consider quitting for a couple of weeks, months, or even years, as truly quitting. To quit something is to quit it. And every person I have met agreed that it was a struggle to quit smoking pot.
But it's all anecdotal on my end. I see some scientists say it's great, some say it's alright, some say it's bad. I think people over think it too much. Of course it isn't good. It's a vice. Cigarettes and alcohol. Gambling and shit.
edit: that sounds like I've been addicted to meth, heroin and coke. lol. Me? No way. But I've had friends on it and seen them try to quit.
Only issue I had with daily cannibis use was that I didn't get anything else done so my life slowly started to decay as I was irresponsible. It's one of those things that can sneakily take over your life without you realizing you've just wasted years doing nothing but getting high. In and of itself I don't find it harmful at all but that kind of fucked me.
I still smoke very rarely, like a handful of times a year (like twice) but I am glad I don't smoke everyday anymore, although I do miss it ;p Maybe one day I'll come back... I will just be scared that I won't be responsible.
For you guys who are using everyday, if you are successful and happy and responsible that is awesome and I am jealous!
The only withdrawal effects ive noticed is that it gets really hard to fall asleep for a few weeks, if you stop after prolonged use. I dont know if calling it 'mild' insomnia even makes sense, but thats how i felt about it. That eventually gets better though
I think you are all talking about something u havent experienced. One week is long enough go ahead and try for a month. Withdrawal symptoms get way worse the longer ur sober. Also younger people have easier time with it. I smoked since 1981 have quit several times. Now 54 quitting is a bear. I wish u all luck if you stop. Read about all the people that have had trouble. By the way the is stored in muscle and fat and your mind can draw off those if needed as level decreases in body brain gets pissed
You keep saying you accept the fact that some people go through withdrawal and that it could be serious FOR A MINORITY.. and yet you titled your post "click bait" .. "the myth of ..x" means there is no such thing.. so clearly there is something a miss here or there?
show what people know which is next to nothing.. thc is the most hidden drug platform right behind sugar/grease/caffeine.. the minority you speak of are only reports from users that were forced to brutally stop and relay their problems towards thc in the process, those statistics are made useless by the fact that most users don't get caught and always lie!
Besides for yourself, who are you writing this info to/for? Who has to be convinced of the fact that thc is ez peezy to get off of? Again.. you could not be more wrong! How wrong?+ Show Spoiler +
Kind of like how "the devil fooled us into thinking that he never existed in the first place" type of wrong!
You seem to be a nice person, i'm very sorry/sad to see you so lost/wrong
How do you not realize that you are a lucky punter that got to swim unhurt in piranha infested waters for "x" years, ending up on the other side of the river AND telling other potential wankers (on the other side of the river) that it is all good, they should "jump in no problem, it really is great on this side!" .. how do you not see that???
What kept the piranhas from you is inconsequential, just go ask a doctor a real guy/gal that deals with addicts and shed those blinders dude, because there are plenty of things you are missing! and it will dawn on you too late that you were completely wrong to advertise thc in a kiddies forum for self pleasurement.
Congratz on being lucky and please do rethink it all through, it could help (you / someone else), but do tell me how you are helping the cause again, seems you like to?!
Sorry, i disagree .. this was not you helping thc being better accepted by anyone, this is you not helping people in need and putting new people in trouble.
thc 's molecules change all human bodies, that 's what we use it for, this use was treated as holy/magic and important by people much wiser than us for centuries and you think making it trivial is a good thing (# sigh).
When you wrote "the myth of weed withdrawal", you smiled/smirked which clearly (for me) states that you are a "12 year old without a clue" (and yes i'm referring to your mental age / complete absence of thought in your post title).
i finished reading the rest of the thread and i like many of the things you do say, from my self planted forest of disapproval viewpoint, but none that do change my point of view on your initial stance though. You wish to help.. start by changing the title then! Then i reread your op:
The most important lesson I’ve learned about how to use cannabis in a way that improves one’s life is to use responsibly.
You clearly are young and there is just no stopping you is there? "responsibly" .. have you looked up the definition of the word "addict"? have you put it into perspective? addict / being responsible .. .. are you sure thc altered people can even be held responsible? .. do please elaborate on all that and get a lawyer friend working on it right away! just a friendly advice. TLDR: sorry to say you have your apron on backwards, carry it like that if you must, sorry that i can't help! Disclaimer: + Show Spoiler +
i'm sorry i'm old, it pains me to say that i can't go on, .. to be forced to behold such energy placed in such a wrong way is so sad i won't want more of it !
fluidrone, please seek help for your apparent schizophrenia, dementia, or whichever mental illness is afflicting you. Your post is incoherent, bizarrely formatted, and quite ironic considering your concern for the OP's mental state. It's infuriating to read such a condescending post from someone who's rambling nonsense.
On March 23 2017 00:05 Sero wrote: fluidrone, please seek help for your apparent schizophrenia, dementia, or whichever mental illness is afflicting you. Your post is incoherent, bizarrely formatted, and quite ironic considering your concern for the OP's mental state. It's infuriating to read such a condescending post from someone who's rambling nonsense.
Sero please seek help with your apparent "[fill in the blank]. Thank you for your concern, sorry i infuriated you by you feeling incapable of deciphering my typing. Your loss, no harm no foul, and be safe, don't insult strangers AND accuse them of being the problem, at least start with either, but just one. If your post is you seeking that help, then try again! maybe third time lucky?
I have already been smoking marijuana for 10 years and I often took long breaks and I did not have withdrawal symptoms, probably because I do it no more than once a week. I have a problem with anger, so I smoke marijuana to quell it. I also sometimes use a natural supplement during work because it does not affect my work and on the contrary, increases my efficiency. I usually buy kratom wholesale to save money and use it as a painkiller if I suddenly have a headache. I believe that you need to use everything in moderation so that addiction and withdrawal symptoms do not appear.