NOTE: Any feedback about my appearance, attire, sexuality, etc. is not welcome and will not be acknowledged.
I have decided to try my hand at learning to cast, better my speaking and public presentation skills, and score myself a potential job within the eSports and gaming industry, all while improving my league ranking in StarCraft II and attempting to learn high-end gameplay strategy analysis skills! (Biggest run-on sentence, ever!)
Join me in my journey, let me know how you think I did, but remember, this is my VERY first cast attempt--ever! Be gentle! I kinda also poured my heart out in the intro part and then scrutinized my own cast in the end. Hopefully it's interesting and not too painful to watch!
This replay is from Dreamhack Summer 2012 and features Stephano (Z) vs. Keen (T)!
I can relate to the whole brain to mouth diarrhea thing, but I think getting a job where I am now, where I have to talk a lot to strangers is making it easier for me to channel my thoughts into speech. So I think keep at it. Even if it's for purely self improvement reasons that's reason enough. You don't need others approval.
Onto the casting.
I think the most important thing in casting, more so then diction, expression, tempo or vocabulary is storytelling. Maybe not in the traditional sense of creating characters and composing a plot, but just in showing the way a game is progressing. Who's ahead, what's coming next, why is he doing this, why aren't they doing that. Is Player X aggressive, is player B defensive. I think being able to tell the story of the game keeps it interesting even if the game isn't super exciting.
I guess part and parcel to that is being able to eliminate any sort of tunnel vision. If you're spectating a game you don't have to be solely focused on one spot or one aspect of the game. As the observer you have the freedom to see everything on the map and use that information to predict where the action is going to happen, and what sort of action that is. Legend may not be a caster but he is probably the best out there at telling a story and following the ebb and flow of a game, even often before the action begins.
So keep focusing on the stuff you've already highlighted, but make sure that you keep these things in mind going forward. You're a storyteller and director. Guide the viewers and let the game tell it's story.
On August 09 2012 14:29 fire_brand wrote: I can relate to the whole brain to mouth diarrhea thing, but I think getting a job where I am now, where I have to talk a lot to strangers is making it easier for me to channel my thoughts into speech. So I think keep at it. Even if it's for purely self improvement reasons that's reason enough. You don't need others approval.
Onto the casting.
I think the most important thing in casting, more so then diction, expression, tempo or vocabulary is storytelling. Maybe not in the traditional sense of creating characters and composing a plot, but just in showing the way a game is progressing. Who's ahead, what's coming next, why is he doing this, why aren't they doing that. Is Player X aggressive, is player B defensive. I think being able to tell the story of the game keeps it interesting even if the game isn't super exciting.
I guess part and parcel to that is being able to eliminate any sort of tunnel vision. If you're spectating a game you don't have to be solely focused on one spot or one aspect of the game. As the observer you have the freedom to see everything on the map and use that information to predict where the action is going to happen, and what sort of action that is. Legend may not be a caster but he is probably the best out there at telling a story and following the ebb and flow of a game, even often before the action begins.
So keep focusing on the stuff you've already highlighted, but make sure that you keep these things in mind going forward. You're a storyteller and director. Guide the viewers and let the game tell it's story.
Thank you so much! That definitely helps! I agree, I really do need to explain to viewers what is going on and why more. I lack confidence in my analysis ATM, so it's hard for me to commit to telling everyone why a player is doing this and that, either because I'm not sure, can't think quickly enough about it, or I don't want to be totally off base.
It's going to be a TON of work, but I think I can definitely improve enough to cast SOMETHING someday!
As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
I play and watch a ton of StarCraft. I also stream it regularly... what? Ignorance...
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
She plays StarCraft. She's a gold league Terran and there was simply no need to criticize her looks. That was quite petty to call out in a thread about her casting.
And @ Tara, your casting seemed to be composed mainly of just pointing out what's going on and saying it. Perhaps be familiar with strategies to the point where you can ramble about it easily during the casting instead of just saying obvious fluff.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
As a gamer who is a dude, I like boobs.
Tara,
Energy is very important to a good cast. You seem to lack it. A lot. Go watch a couple of Husky's casts. Seriously. He's one of the best in the world (maybe the best) at conveying excitement in his broadcasts.
You ranted at the beginning about how much you love this stuff. Let it out in the cast.
There's great weight, and great strength in silence... If used correctly. In your case, it just feels like a lot of down time.
Best way to fix this is to improve on your knowledge of the game, so you've got more to talk about.
This dead space is also a great time to fill with stories you have about interactions with different pros or people in e-sports you might know.
Keep it up.
People like you doing this kind of stuff is a great gateway for people who don't know Starcraft to get involved. I'll check back on practice cast #10 or so to see how far you've come.
As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer".
I can assure you, I don't roll my eyes when I'm in dismay.
Edit : I'm aware it's a fake, but still it could be more subtly executed
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
You're also adding fuel to the flame by discouraging a girl from giving an honest shot at the esports scene. It's hard enough for girls isn't it?
It really does sound like you're giving more weight into looks, something we should be distancing ourselves away from. I don't see anything wrong with trying and differentiating yourself from others, especially as saturated as it is (it's almost necessary to bring something new to the table). As long as the information is right and the mentality is open for improvement, then that's fine with me. I don't care much about if the passion or intentions are insincere as long as it doesn't do any harm, as those trying to fake passion and enthusiasm often disappear eventually.
As for the video, the casting of course could use some work which just gets better with practice. I would probably suggest to stick to a more play-by-play casting role and eventually dual cast with an analytical caster. It would be a natural fit as you seem to have a higher capacity for enthusiasm, and usually the better analytical casters are really good at the game.
Keep practicing though, especially with the camera movements and try to always be talking in solo casts (though remember correct information always outweighs amount of information).
This might come as a bit of a surprise to you, but your breasts are not a part of your face (weird, right?). They do not need to be in the shot when you are speaking to the camera.
I mean,you are just pointing out stuff,which in itself is not too bad to do as the game is going on but if you are just moving around and pointing out stuff it get's dull. I can tell you that for me it's quite irritating when I hear someone like totalbiscuit cast alone(which essentially never happens anymore I know) because he needs someone like apollo to pick up the strategy talk and to be able to do educated guesses on what is about to happen. Also filling downtimes when there is nothing happening is quite important as well.Some do it with jokes,which sometimes makes me want to kill myself because of how bad they are.The best way to go about it is throw in some stats and facts I think,for instance if stephano is playing on daybreak point out his win rate on that map,what is his usual go to strategy for this map,why he chooses it,etc.This doesn't require a lot of strategic knowledge it just requires you to watch a lot of games of the players you cast. I would be lying if I said you are decent right now and I guess you know that yourself but if you want to get better at casting just watch a bunch of games and try to cast as much as you can,check out liquipedia for stats(BUT NOT DURING THE CAST,know it prior to the actual cast). Oh and one more thing,don't flash your tits like that.The gaming community is very sexist and immature as a whole and no one is going to take you seriously no matter how good you get. Personally I like fake tits and have nothing against them but the center of your cast should be your cast and not the tits.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
No offense, but I think its repugnant to judge someone almost entirely based on their looks. Maybe you should just respect her sense of style or just leave her alone if you have nothing nice to say. Also you should probably learn more about whether she plays starcraft before making claims that she doesn't. That would seem like an important prerequisite.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
I kind of agree. In the past few months we've had a cry from the community for more "serious" female engagement in gaming, and then people dress up like Tara. Now she may be a nice person but the appearance and obvious cry for attention from the majorly male demographic is just repulsive. It's basicly the Duckface of Starcraft.
Sorry, this is just really not going to help you Tara. If you want to reach something, drop the barbie attitude, drop the attention-seeking mindset.
First of all, I think people who are famous out of SC2 scene can really help this game to progress. But your casting isnt good enough for MLG or similar event yet. If you watch, for example, day9, he yells at mic when some big fight is occurring, or some funky/cuttie move is done. You might want to invest more energy into this casting, showing that you have the passion for game. also a little faster clicking if there is multiple events on the map. But for first cast is good, and this is the only way you can improve it, by critique of watchers. DOnt be discouraged by some posts here, neither of casters were good at their first cast.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
No offense, but I think its repugnant to judge someone almost entirely based on their looks. Maybe you should just respect her sense of style or just leave her alone if you have nothing nice to say. Also you should probably learn more about whether she plays starcraft before making claims that she doesn't. That would seem like an important prerequisite.
No one's judging anyone based on their looks. She's judging her inappropriately revealing and oversexed appearance as demeaning.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
No offense, but I think its repugnant to judge someone almost entirely based on their looks. Maybe you should just respect her sense of style or just leave her alone if you have nothing nice to say. Also you should probably learn more about whether she plays starcraft before making claims that she doesn't. That would seem like an important prerequisite.
No one's judging anyone based on their looks. She's judging her inappropriately revealing and oversexed appearance as demeaning.
That's how the YouTube sidebar trolls dress.
Well she was commenting on her looks by talking about her lipstick and bleached hair which doesn't have much to do with being revealing or oversexed.
But secondly I'm pretty sure she isn't the first girl to show cleavage on the internet or otherwise...lots of girls do it, I would think we would be used to that by now (that is - its nothing extreme). What's wrong with dressing in an attractive way? How is that demeaning? I get the feeling people make the conclusion that girls who dress like this only have value because of their looks or oversexed appearance.
But its illogical; the only person demeaning anyone is the person making that judgement. Just because she dresses in an attractive way does not imply that is the only value girls can have, or that that is her most important value. It is simply *a* value, just like guys can be physically attractive and show it off with muscle shirts, but still be intelligent and affable casters. Why not? We're basically making assumptions about why she dresses that way, what her aim is, and then attacking her for it...but there is nothing solid to base any of these claims on.
I understand how people commonly view girls who dress like Tara does. I just wished TL would be the kind of community that doesn't attack people for it...that is, you can be sexy, you can look good, and no one will think you're demeaning women somehow.
Haven't seen it all yet and since I'm only a silver-level player I can't really comment on game knowledge... but what I can say is what I like in a caster.
The most important thing IMO is the way the information is presented... like in the beginning of the game. "Player X took an early expansion -> that means he won't be able to put on early pressure -> what can his opponent do / how does what the other player is doing correspond with what player X is doing? -> What will or should Player X's next step be?" It's quite the basic thing, but very important.
The second thing is small/filler talk. This is mostly important in the early game because mostly very little happens... I guess that's really the hardest part when your casting alone. I'm sure you'd have a lot of stories to tell though, so I don't think you'll have big problems
The third thing would be knowing the playstyle of as many players as possible. It'll help you cast because you can predict how the players will react to certain situations or what kind of strategies the players are going for.
I would also check into learning how to project you voice (I think that's what it's called).... Tasteless talked about it in his Real Talk episode. It might help you feel more secure while casting and you won't break your voice once/if you get good and can go to events! (Oh, and you'll probably learn how to sound more enthusiastic/excited)
Worst thing about the cast: You're terran Best thing about the cast: Your laugh! (Though I bet haters will hate you for it... just don't listen to them)
I hope my feedback helps you in anyway (not so sure though)... But I wish you the best of luck becoming a caster! GLHF
On August 09 2012 19:56 radscorpion9 wrote: Why not? We're basically making assumptions about why she dresses that way, what her aim is, and then attacking her for it...but there is nothing solid to base any of these claims on.
I just wished TL would be the kind of community that doesn't attack people for it...that is, you can be sexy, you can look good, and no one will think you're demeaning women somehow.
I wish TL was a community that didn't buy into an obvious marketing ploy by a porn model. I mean really, google her name and check the top result. She's selling a brand.
Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with selling sex. But she purports to be selling SC2 casting, and it's blatantly obvious that's not what's actually on the menu.
This is exactly what is what gives women in SC2 community the bad name of attention seeking, wanting to sell themselves by the looks alone and the fact they are a hot female. I'm not going to say she can't be a good caster, if she persues the venture and genuinely learns her way around that, but I really think she needs to cut on selling her sex so much. Sure, it sells, but again, think of other women who work hard to try and bring something else, other than their sex(appeal), to the scene.
Wishing you a good luck, if you truly want to pursue the venture of a caster, though.
Thanks for the help, guys! Of course I do not plan to stick with solo-casting, and I realize that it is much harder, and not something someone who is purely entertaining and not heavily analytically should do. The solo practice is good, though, because I do not feel like I need the practice interacting with another person fluidly (IMO perfecting that comes with working with them often anyway) so I might as well practice the hard way for the most part. Alone! I would love to cast with others and practice and stuff, though. I am always welcome to cast the local SC2 tournament here at Gameclucks where players like Kawaiirice and other GM/M serious players compete, and I am excited to dual cast there when I feel I will not bomb it.
As for my looks, I don't care what anyone thinks. I am not going to change myself away from the way I like to be just because someone may find me less offensive or take me "seriously". If I am not so damn good that the skill is dripping from my words and you cannot help but see my passion and "worth" as a person in eSports, I might as well not even do it! I'm also a glamour model full-time. This is what we look like. Get over it. Why would I change myself so it pleases others? That is just actually doing what you are accusing me of already: changing just so people like me, or accept me.
As far as other girls coming in and "pretending" to be gamers... well a tiny bit of digging on me in particular and you'll see that is moronic to even say in regards to me. I have been gaming my whole life. I've talked about it in interviews my whole career, covered eSports and gaming events, I write gaming articles, and I own so much gaming "paraphernalia" that any real gamer would be in heaven. I may be new to eSports, but my love for gaming, persistent throughout my life is no secret.
Other than that, I agree, I need to let the passion out more, I need to be more comfortable with getting excited and, above all, I need more knowledge or the game and have the backing of a higher personal ranking in order to look serious about the game and community. I plan to keep working on it! I know you guys will see improvement soon!
On August 09 2012 20:16 iEatWoofers wrote: Haven't seen it all yet and since I'm only a silver-level player I can't really comment on game knowledge... but what I can say is what I like in a caster.
The most important thing IMO is the way the information is presented... like in the beginning of the game. "Player X took an early expansion -> that means he won't be able to put on early pressure -> what can his opponent do / how does what the other player is doing correspond with what player X is doing? -> What will or should Player X's next step be?" It's quite the basic thing, but very important.
The second thing is small/filler talk. This is mostly important in the early game because mostly very little happens... I guess that's really the hardest part when your casting alone. I'm sure you'd have a lot of stories to tell though, so I don't think you'll have big problems
The third thing would be knowing the playstyle of as many players as possible. It'll help you cast because you can predict how the players will react to certain situations or what kind of strategies the players are going for.
I would also check into learning how to project you voice (I think that's what it's called).... Tasteless talked about it in his Real Talk episode. It might help you feel more secure while casting and you won't break your voice once/if you get good and can go to events! (Oh, and you'll probably learn how to sound more enthusiastic/excited)
Worst thing about the cast: You're terran Best thing about the cast: Your laugh! (Though I bet haters will hate you for it... just don't listen to them)
I hope my feedback helps you in anyway (not so sure though)... But I wish you the best of luck becoming a caster! GLHF
Thanks! In regards to story-telling: I realize a lot of casters do this, talk about personal stories, but I did not want my first cast to involve too much non-StarCraft stuff, and I didn't have anything personal to say about either player. I should have said a bit more about Keen, that would have helped, and yeah, even more info on Stephano. Of course if this became my full-time I would be goofing non-stop and telling stories, but I am learning so I felt it did not belong and would look a bit irrelevant. I need to work on my talking in regards to StarCraft before I get the in-between gossip working!
On August 09 2012 20:46 TaraBabcock wrote: I'm also a glamour model full-time.
You don't say? It's almost as if your casting is a way to promote your career as a "glamour model", what with the address to your paid site being plastered all over your youtube page, along with "glamour photos".
This is what we look like. Get over it.
That's what you wear to funerals? That's what you wear at the library?
No one is criticizing how you dress when doing your day job as a model, or in your private life. What we're criticizing is that you're purporting to be interested in casting SC2, when you're obviously selling a "glamour" brand and paysite.
If you're attempting to create a one-stop shop for SC2 casts and casual masturbation, more power to you, but don't get all huffy when women gamers everywhere roll their eyes something fierce.
On August 09 2012 19:21 Nawe wrote: First of all, I think people who are famous out of SC2 scene can really help this game to progress. But your casting isnt good enough for MLG or similar event yet. If you watch, for example, day9, he yells at mic when some big fight is occurring, or some funky/cuttie move is done. You might want to invest more energy into this casting, showing that you have the passion for game. also a little faster clicking if there is multiple events on the map. But for first cast is good, and this is the only way you can improve it, by critique of watchers. DOnt be discouraged by some posts here, neither of casters were good at their first cast.
Thanks! You are right. I really sucked when it got heated. I feel that enthusiasm will be easy when I know WTF I am even screaming about. I was more worried about just trying to be accurate or informative. I'm super over-hyper usually, so adding that shouldn't be too hard! The little words of encouragement are nice, too.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
As a gamer who is a dude, I like boobs.
Tara,
Energy is very important to a good cast. You seem to lack it. A lot. Go watch a couple of Husky's casts. Seriously. He's one of the best in the world (maybe the best) at conveying excitement in his broadcasts.
You ranted at the beginning about how much you love this stuff. Let it out in the cast.
There's great weight, and great strength in silence... If used correctly. In your case, it just feels like a lot of down time.
Best way to fix this is to improve on your knowledge of the game, so you've got more to talk about.
This dead space is also a great time to fill with stories you have about interactions with different pros or people in e-sports you might know.
Keep it up.
People like you doing this kind of stuff is a great gateway for people who don't know Starcraft to get involved. I'll check back on practice cast #10 or so to see how far you've come.
Mr Bitter, understanding what men want since..well forever! Haha <3 Bitter
On August 09 2012 20:46 TaraBabcock wrote: I'm also a glamour model full-time.
You don't say? It's almost as if your casting is a way to promote your career as a "glamour model", what with the address to your paid site being plastered all over your youtube page, along with "glamour photos".
That's what you wear to funerals? That's what you wear at the library?
No one is criticizing how you dress when doing your day job as a model, or in your private life. What we're criticizing is that you're purporting to be interested in casting SC2, when you're obviously selling a "glamour" brand and paysite.
If you're attempting to create a one-stop shop for SC2 casts and casual masturbation, more power to you, but don't get all huffy when women gamers everywhere roll their eyes something fierce.
Think what you want. eSports may be primarily male, but it is a very, very small demographic of people compared to the amount I get from just taking modeling jobs and posting images. In my day job I market to every male in the world who is attracted to sexuality or my look. Why would I take time off of that for some niche market if it was not because I love it?
And the YouTube channel? It's my all-around channel. Lots of non-gaming stuff there...
I embrace sexuality and the way I look. I worked hard on it, and I don't give the slightest shit if you think whatever. I am just looking for feedback on the cast. Close your eyes through the other parts and imagine me as a man when I am casting, then post your thoughts.
No more of this drama based on my looks. It's off-topic and will be ignored from here on out.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
As a gamer who is a dude, I like boobs.
Tara,
Energy is very important to a good cast. You seem to lack it. A lot. Go watch a couple of Husky's casts. Seriously. He's one of the best in the world (maybe the best) at conveying excitement in his broadcasts.
You ranted at the beginning about how much you love this stuff. Let it out in the cast.
There's great weight, and great strength in silence... If used correctly. In your case, it just feels like a lot of down time.
Best way to fix this is to improve on your knowledge of the game, so you've got more to talk about.
This dead space is also a great time to fill with stories you have about interactions with different pros or people in e-sports you might know.
Keep it up.
People like you doing this kind of stuff is a great gateway for people who don't know Starcraft to get involved. I'll check back on practice cast #10 or so to see how far you've come.
Mr Bitter, understanding what men want since..well forever! Haha <3 Bitter
Oh and of course, his caster feedback is great
100% agreed! Thanks so much!
Grind, grind, grind! The challenge is finding the time, then focusing on studying the casters and improving upon my own gameplay.
Rest assured, there will be a #10! Thank you, Bitter. (and Pandemona, ofc!)
i like the idea. dont exspect it to be easy, much work and effort is needed to get far, and the rage of some inhibited nerds and jealous girls will always be louder than the positive feedback from the majority, thats the way internet is. so just do it if you want, if you have enough passion and try to learn, you will advance. 5/5 to compensate for the haters
On August 09 2012 22:08 Sinensis wrote: I like that we could see your boobs in two different places on screen at once, pretty clever. Also clever covering the poster with a Steelseries ad.
Overall just left me feeling confused. I mean obviously you're advertizing but it's a pretty weird way to do it.
Yep, advertising a career in eSports with the help of my assets/unique-ness and an already established name in modeling. Everyone wants to work in a field they love. It'd be great to play video games all day, just like it is great to be creative and sexy all day as a model, but we all gotta pay bills and eat.
The Steelseries thing is because TwitchTV required I cover the underboob. I actually strongly prefer Razer. I'm sponsored by NOS Gaming as well, which is the reason for the NOS cans in the back.
I may be business-minded and good at marketing, but I assure you, I have nothing but passion for gaming and eSports. And I can easily back it up and prove it. I mean, I've had my Mario Bros tattoo since it was legal, and an Atari since I could hold a joystick. The eSports field just helps it all come together!
On August 09 2012 22:21 KawaiiRice wrote: reading all these stupid hate comments is seriously depressing especially the one saying Tara doesn't play sc lol good luck with commentating~~
Aww, thanks Kawaii. You the best. Terran power! ^^
On August 09 2012 22:21 KawaiiRice wrote: reading all these stupid hate comments is seriously depressing especially the one saying Tara doesn't play sc lol good luck with commentating~~
On August 09 2012 20:46 TaraBabcock wrote: I'm also a glamour model full-time.
You don't say? It's almost as if your casting is a way to promote your career as a "glamour model", what with the address to your paid site being plastered all over your youtube page, along with "glamour photos".
That's what you wear to funerals? That's what you wear at the library?
No one is criticizing how you dress when doing your day job as a model, or in your private life. What we're criticizing is that you're purporting to be interested in casting SC2, when you're obviously selling a "glamour" brand and paysite.
If you're attempting to create a one-stop shop for SC2 casts and casual masturbation, more power to you, but don't get all huffy when women gamers everywhere roll their eyes something fierce.
This basically sums it all up. God it's been a while since i've seen such a decent post (a post with common sense) in TL.
On one hand I respect that you've got your own style and aren't afraid to show just that. On the other it conflicts with your goal of getting serious casting gigs in the future.
It's impressive that you've been able to combine a career as glamour model whilst being a genuine girl gamer, but it still puts you in a position where people are going to question the person behind the boobs. Casting isn't about the casters at all, it's about telling the stories of the people that play the game, the pictures they paint with their mouse and keyboard, their efforts, quirks, rivalries, expectations, emotions.
The brand you've created depends heavily on yourself being spotlighted, whereas high level SC2 casting requires you to tone yourself down to make others shine bright. For a majority of the time you'd just be the sum of your words, totally reliant on your knowledge of the game, its players and your ability to convey these things eloquently.
I'm not doubting that you could handle that intellectually, but it does really conflict with your current image.
Regarding the cast. People have already commented on the actual talking part of it, I want to give a few comments on what was visible on the screen (DURING THE GAME!).
- The menu in the top left should be hidden, it just takes up space. There's an option for that somewhere. All you need to remember is that F10 = Menu and you won't need the visible menu bar anymore.. The achievements and help hotkeys aren't really needed. - The replay timer should be hidden, so that the viewer doesn't know how long is left in the game. You can collapse it or put an overlay in front of it. To make sure that a game-time-clock remains visible, enable the game-clock that appears above the minimap in the options. - General observing was very jittery. There were quite a few small screen movements that weren't very smooth and the mouse cursor bounced all over the place. This is a natural thing to do when watching a replay, but during a cast it can be distracting. Aim for slower, decisive mouse movements to locations where you can indicate something and find out which scrolling method gives you the smoothest screen scrolling. The observing from ST_Legend in the GSL is pretty much the gold standard to aim for, so make sure to check it out.
I skimmed through it and the casting wasn't as bad as i expected it to be, though the general tempo was off several times. As an example you tried to do analysis when there was an exciting attack, e.g. when Stephanos banelings were breaking into Keens mainbase. The timing and tempo will come with more practice. You also have to know what you are good at. From what i read in this thread you are gold league, so don't go for analysis, don't try to give hints to viewers, you'll end up being wrong most of the time. Just cast the game and focus on what you know. A caster like TotalBiscuit is a good example for that, he can convey great excitement and only does the exact amount of analysis he is actually capable off.
Also, preparation key combo whenever you open a replay for casting: P (Pause) T (Back to start) Ctrl-T (Hide replay timer) Ctrl-N (Names. You already did that) D (Production tab)
After a hundred casted games i started doing that as a reflex whenever i opened any replay :p
On a personal note, for the overall video - while i in general don't have a problem with women showing their "attributes", i work in the adult industry after all - when i want to watch a game of starcraft i want to watch a game of starcraft, not a woman "shoving her breasts into the camera". I know you want to market the Tara Babcock brand, not just the caster/esports person, but in the future it would be nice if you would just leave the parts before and after the casted games out. If you want to tell people something you can do it in the first minutes of the game where you usually end up grasping for anything to talk about anyways. Maybe just add an overlay with your cam into the unit portrait field on the bottom if you want people to see you.
On August 09 2012 23:25 Rannasha wrote: Regarding the cast. People have already commented on the actual talking part of it, I want to give a few comments on what was visible on the screen (DURING THE GAME!).
- The menu in the top left should be hidden, it just takes up space. There's an option for that somewhere. All you need to remember is that F10 = Menu and you won't need the visible menu bar anymore.. The achievements and help hotkeys aren't really needed. - The replay timer should be hidden, so that the viewer doesn't know how long is left in the game. You can collapse it or put an overlay in front of it. To make sure that a game-time-clock remains visible, enable the game-clock that appears above the minimap in the options. - General observing was very jittery. There were quite a few small screen movements that weren't very smooth and the mouse cursor bounced all over the place. This is a natural thing to do when watching a replay, but during a cast it can be distracting. Aim for slower, decisive mouse movements to locations where you can indicate something and find out which scrolling method gives you the smoothest screen scrolling. The observing from ST_Legend in the GSL is pretty much the gold standard to aim for, so make sure to check it out.
Thanks! The replay loaded on to an offline mode since the patch just came out, so things were weird. When I play I have the bar at the top hidden and I have a timer on as well. I definitely didn't know about hiding the replay time thingy until a friend mentioned it to me.
I agree about my camera control. It was doing some weird lagging/skipping around a bit. I was rendering video at the time so it was probably my maxing out of my CPU that caused it, but I am also not too great with scroll dragging. I am sure that will come with time, and a lot of events don't even have a caster doing that anymore, anyway!
Great suggestions, thank you! Love the technical input. I also love the cam control for GSL!
I did a commentary just to myself once and I was so bad, so I can say youre decent. I agree with most of the people who have offered constructive criticism.
- I dig the voice. Nice tones. Kinda sexy and expressive sometimes. Could be used better if you are less sc2 roboty/parroty and show more personality (I think goofing would make you more comfortable and less serious but I don’t know you)
-You’re aware of what player decisions to talk about ( like the somewhat unusual thor) but you do not expand on it enough sometimes. 2 examples: 1. “his opponent is zerg so the wall is safe” can expand to “early zergling play is easily defended with a wall that keeps lings out, but stephano fast expanded so this does not matter.
2.“Foreigner hope” – to some, stephano represents the chance that non-koreans may one day compete at the highest level that is currently dominated by Koreans, as he’s been defeating Korean players like MC in tourneys.
- talk about the threat of attack. The baneling attack was a growing threat like a storm on the ocean and it kept getting worse. You didn’t talk about it even when keen was screwed.
-goodjob talking about the scary economy of stephano but you need to talk about the army advantage it affords him.
-the decisive battle for keen’s fourth at the center you called an “interaction”. Interaction is a cool word to use.. like if the armies both decide not to fully engage, but they engaged.. so its an engagement.
-during the battle you said there were fungals but I think they were infested terrans. You gotta make fungals epic when they do happen(search playgu on youtube for a Korean workshop). also attention to detail during battles is important especially during battles. klazartsc from the BW days used to shout like every unit being picked off..
-I don’t see why you did not present the best work you're capable of by trying out multiple commentaries first.
Anyways, I am a noob so dont listen too much. I could critique any caster like this so don’t take it too hard either. Gg gl yo
On August 09 2012 23:39 Morfildur wrote: I skimmed through it and the casting wasn't as bad as i expected it to be, though the general tempo was off several times. As an example you tried to do analysis when there was an exciting attack, e.g. when Stephanos banelings were breaking into Keens mainbase. The timing and tempo will come with more practice. You also have to know what you are good at. From what i read in this thread you are gold league, so don't go for analysis, don't try to give hints to viewers, you'll end up being wrong most of the time. Just cast the game and focus on what you know. A caster like TotalBiscuit is a good example for that, he can convey great excitement and only does the exact amount of analysis he is actually capable off.
Also, preparation key combo whenever you open a replay for casting: P (Pause) T (Back to start) Ctrl-T (Hide replay timer) Ctrl-N (Names. You already did that) D (Production tab)
After a hundred casted games i started doing that as a reflex whenever i opened any replay :p
On a personal note, for the overall video - while i in general don't have a problem with women showing their "attributes", i work in the adult industry after all - when i want to watch a game of starcraft i want to watch a game of starcraft, not a woman "shoving her breasts into the camera". I know you want to market the Tara Babcock brand, not just the caster/esports person, but in the future it would be nice if you would just leave the parts before and after the casted games out. If you want to tell people something you can do it in the first minutes of the game where you usually end up grasping for anything to talk about anyways. Maybe just add an overlay with your cam into the unit portrait field on the bottom if you want people to see you.
Thanks! Great advice, and I'll definitely write down and make those commands reflex.
I understand where you are coming from, but I like the way I do the practices, and it feels more personal. It also shows off my edge and gets people interested. Hell, not only am I marketing myself, I am bringing crossover fans into StarCraft, and that is very important. People can just skip to the game if they want. If they are watching for interest in seeing this game for the first time, they are doing it wrong anyway, as my analysis is not going to be good and it's not about the replay as much as it is my attempt at casting a pro game and improving. Obviously it's a totally different story if I am casting it for a company or event.
On August 09 2012 22:53 Saechiis wrote: On one hand I respect that you've got your own style and aren't afraid to show just that. On the other it conflicts with your goal of getting serious casting gigs in the future.
It's impressive that you've been able to combine a career as glamour model whilst being a genuine girl gamer, but it still puts you in a position where people are going to question the person behind the boobs. Casting isn't about the casters at all, it's about telling the stories of the people that play the game, the pictures they paint with their mouse and keyboard, their efforts, quirks, rivalries, expectations, emotions.
The brand you've created depends heavily on yourself being spotlighted, whereas high level SC2 casting requires you to tone yourself down to make others shine bright. For a majority of the time you'd just be the sum of your words, totally reliant on your knowledge of the game, its players and your ability to convey these things eloquently.
I'm not doubting that you could handle that intellectually, but it does really conflict with your current image.
I agree with you somewhat, but at the same time, I disagree that part of eSports is not the caster's personality and celebrity... because it totally is. People look for certain casters sometimes because they like their niche or their particular personality, voice, or even their jokes--all things that have nothing to do with StarCraft. It bring people in to be interested in the people behind the cast. In some cases, it can even be just as important as the analysis itself. Casters like Day9, Total Biscuit, Husky, and most others all have a sort of "celebrity" about them outside the casting, and people love to see them do other stuff, and talk about other things as well.
That being said, I agree that I need the knowledge and skill to back up that personality and look. I believe both are very important in standing out in a crowd of people who play at a higher level and know a lot more about it than you.
On August 09 2012 23:47 meteorskunk wrote: I remember you from livinpink’s stream!
I did a commentary just to myself once and I was so bad, so I can say youre decent. I agree with most of the people who have offered constructive criticism.
- I dig the voice. Nice tones. Kinda sexy and expressive sometimes. Could be used better if you are less sc2 roboty/parroty and show more personality (I think goofing would make you more comfortable and less serious but I don’t know you)
-You’re aware of what player decisions to talk about ( like the somewhat unusual thor) but you do not expand on it enough sometimes. 2 examples: 1. “his opponent is zerg so the wall is safe” can expand to “early zergling play is easily defended with a wall that keeps lings out, but stephano fast expanded so this does not matter.
2.“Foreigner hope” – to some, stephano represents the chance that non-koreans may one day compete at the highest level that is currently dominated by Koreans, as he’s been defeating Korean players like MC in tourneys.
- talk about the threat of attack. The baneling attack was a growing threat like a storm on the ocean and it kept getting worse. You didn’t talk about it even when keen was screwed.
-goodjob talking about the scary economy of stephano but you need to talk about the army advantage it affords him.
-the decisive battle for keen’s fourth at the center you called an “interaction”. Interaction is a cool word to use.. like if the armies both decide not to fully engage, but they engaged.. so its an engagement.
-during the battle you said there were fungals but I think they were infested terrans. You gotta make fungals epic when they do happen(search playgu on youtube for a Korean workshop). also attention to detail during battles is important especially during battles. klazartsc from the BW days used to shout like every unit being picked off..
-I don’t see why you did not present the best work you're capable of by trying out multiple commentaries first.
Anyways, I am a noob so dont listen too much. I could critique any caster like this so don’t take it too hard either. Gg gl yo
Thank you! It was nice to hear some kind words as well as the criticism!
I didn't present my "best work" because I am as popular as I am in the modeling world because I am open and honest and connect with my fans, I wanted to bring that over to my gaming work and let everyone in on it when I am not trying to show off, but genuinely trying to start out and improve. People appreciate that kind of bold honesty, and I want to start learning from everyone right away. I want to take the journey with everyone and I'm not afraid to admit I suck and ask for help!
On August 09 2012 16:18 MrBitter wrote: As a gamer who is a dude, I like boobs.
Tara,
Energy is very important to a good cast. You seem to lack it. A lot. Go watch a couple of Husky's casts. Seriously. He's one of the best in the world (maybe the best) at conveying excitement in his broadcasts.
You ranted at the beginning about how much you love this stuff. Let it out in the cast.
There's great weight, and great strength in silence... If used correctly. In your case, it just feels like a lot of down time.
Best way to fix this is to improve on your knowledge of the game, so you've got more to talk about.
This dead space is also a great time to fill with stories you have about interactions with different pros or people in e-sports you might know.
Keep it up.
People like you doing this kind of stuff is a great gateway for people who don't know Starcraft to get involved. I'll check back on practice cast #10 or so to see how far you've come.
So MrBitter made some really good points but I just wanted to add on to a few points ^_^
As a caster myself showing your passion is important. With your first cast you were doing well but it seemed you were just talking about what you saw. Which isn't bad but if you are passionate about this like you say let it show. When you normally watch Tournaments or Streams what is the most exciting part of the game for you?
When I started casting I was doing it all solo style. Which I enjoyed it helped me to work on a lot of things with my speech and movement while observing a game. A few people have mentioned that it is more difficult to solo cast, which makes sense since you control the camera(need to pay attention to drops things like that) and cast. I would recommend maybe talking with some of your other friends about co-casting with you. It is much easier to fill space, especially at the start if you have someone to joke with or bring up different topics about the map or the players. Plus you can have someone else be the person in charge of the camera while you concentrate on just casting.
A couple people have already touched on minimizing the replay timer. Also turn on the in game clock in your option menu. As you start to learn the game more you'll understand "normal" timings to expand or tech up. That way you can easily identify when someone is rushing to hive tech or something like that.
You mentioned that you are better at writing then speaking currently. Why not try and write down a couple key things other casters talk about from the tournaments you watch. You could also write down some information about the players. For example with Keen vs Stephano if you casted them again you could point back to this game. Saying something about how Keen favored a bio-mech mixed army in previous TvZ games. Perhaps that will be something that we'll be seeing this game? Good filler info or topics to jump off of at the start and middle of the game while the players are power up or the game is more passive.
Just a couple things to keep in mind(I hope this post made sense I'm not a very good writer) ^_^ Best of luck Tara, i'm looking forward to checking out your progress!
On August 09 2012 20:41 BabyToss! wrote: This is exactly what is what gives women in SC2 community the bad name of attention seeking, wanting to sell themselves by the looks alone and the fact they are a hot female. I'm not going to say she can't be a good caster, if she persues the venture and genuinely learns her way around that, but I really think she needs to cut on selling her sex so much. Sure, it sells, but again, think of other women who work hard to try and bring something else, other than their sex(appeal), to the scene.
She reminds me of Riku but worse and with a video instead of just pictures.
I expect this to happen:
On August 09 2012 21:01 Kleinmuuhg wrote: 2. This is some sort of marketing trick -> She will fade away , nobody has to care.
On August 09 2012 17:44 snexwang wrote: This might come as a bit of a surprise to you, but your breasts are not a part of your face (weird, right?). They do not need to be in the shot when you are speaking to the camera.
Here, I'll demonstrate exactly what I'm talking about.
Brain: "A woman? Wait, this is strange... where are the boo- Oh, hey. She's speaking about SC. Cool. I will now evaluate her casting based on her abilities rather than her flourished appearance as if I were some kind of deprived perma-virgin."
I realise I'm being a tad sardonic here but I'm only trying to help.
He actually has a point and you shouldn't take this as a personal attack on who you are,it's kinda like the video blog kennigit made on framing during interviews and such,look it up if you didn't see it. The thing is there is nothing wrong in having a censored version of yourself on camera while you cast because it actually makes people focus on it.For instance tasteless curses like a pirate in real life,yet he has a different way of speaking to the public on camera during casts. It's cool that you are comfortable with your sexuality but it overshadows the thing that you are actually trying to do,cast the game and it comes off as you wanting to market yourself more than you want to sell the game you are casting.
The video was pretty good for a 1st time. I think being comfortable on camera helps.
For the next time, I would follow some of the positive advice from the experienced casters that have posted in here. Increasing your game knowledge to be able to explain why people are doing certain things, and telling little anecdotes about gaming is great fun in a cast.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
Have to agree on some points here, while she does play Starcraft she's gold and really doesn't understand the game at all and is limited at just giving a play by playing of exactly what's going on rather than any strategy talk in the slightest. And mainly the cleavage lolol I just face palmed so hard when I saw that, you could try being somewhat professional if you actually wanna be anything close to serious when casting Starcraft = \. Aside from that you need a co-caster if you'd actually like to get into casting professionally preferably someone analytical to be precise since you lack the knowledge needed to be enjoyable to watch and seriously wear something a bit more professional again aka something that covers your chest if you'd actually like to be taken seriously as a legitmate caster rather than just pull people to your casting from being the opposite sex.
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
You're also adding fuel to the flame by discouraging a girl from giving an honest shot at the esports scene. It's hard enough for girls isn't it?
It really does sound like you're giving more weight into looks, something we should be distancing ourselves away from. I don't see anything wrong with trying and differentiating yourself from others, especially as saturated as it is (it's almost necessary to bring something new to the table). As long as the information is right and the mentality is open for improvement, then that's fine with me. I don't care much about if the passion or intentions are insincere as long as it doesn't do any harm, as those trying to fake passion and enthusiasm often disappear eventually.
As for the video, the casting of course could use some work which just gets better with practice. I would probably suggest to stick to a more play-by-play casting role and eventually dual cast with an analytical caster. It would be a natural fit as you seem to have a higher capacity for enthusiasm, and usually the better analytical casters are really good at the game.
Keep practicing though, especially with the camera movements and try to always be talking in solo casts (though remember correct information always outweighs amount of information).
Good luck
And she's not really adding fuel she's giving tips you have to look somewhat professional if you're going to look at casting seriously, I honestly wouldn't watch ANYONE cast regardless of gender if they didn't present themselves professionally while casting ect honestly it kind of just looked like a big joke.
Big difference between wanting to be taken seriously as a caster or just get viewers because you're a girl which is kinda of ridiuclous to start with.
Edit: All in all wasn't terrible to watching practice camera movements, wear something professional, get a analytical co caster and try actually learning more about the game itself. As it stands now people will only watch you because you're a female "gamer"
On August 09 2012 15:35 ninazerg wrote: As a gamer who is a girl, I find this absolutely repugnant and offensive. I will not go easy on you, because you exemplify everything that makes guys roll their eyes at the phrase "girl gamer". First, you don't play StarCraft, which I consider a pretty important prerequisite for casting. Second, you look like a freaking Barbie doll. Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
1/5 stars.
As a gamer who is a dude, I like boobs.
Tara,
Energy is very important to a good cast. You seem to lack it. A lot. Go watch a couple of Husky's casts. Seriously. He's one of the best in the world (maybe the best) at conveying excitement in his broadcasts.
You ranted at the beginning about how much you love this stuff. Let it out in the cast.
There's great weight, and great strength in silence... If used correctly. In your case, it just feels like a lot of down time.
Best way to fix this is to improve on your knowledge of the game, so you've got more to talk about.
This dead space is also a great time to fill with stories you have about interactions with different pros or people in e-sports you might know.
Keep it up.
People like you doing this kind of stuff is a great gateway for people who don't know Starcraft to get involved. I'll check back on practice cast #10 or so to see how far you've come.
You still have to make it your own. I hate giving examples of the good, the bad and the downright ugly.
One point I'd bring on home is the fact that the passion should be visible in the cast. It doesn't need to be said. Treat your viewers as if they're smart.
The only reason silence is golden is when you are co-casting with someone, a la rotterdam. It helps when you have good chemistry and know each other's strengths and weaknesses, but she's doing this on her own. In other words, you either have to know your shit or put your own twist on it. Give yourself your own goals on what you want to do with it other than, "I want to try it and get better." Narrow it down even more.
Making small talk is a lot easier when you have a co-caster. -_-
As for Nina.. that is how she looks regardless of the modeling spiel. Deal with it. You aren't going to change who she is.
Biggest change you could do in your casting is to hide or cover your cleavage. You don't need boobs to attract the attention of a male dominant gaming scene, you just have to be female.
As for Nina.. that is how she looks regardless of the modeling spiel. Deal with it. You aren't going to change who she is.
Wasn't aware her putting on a different shirt would be changing the core fundamentals of who she is.
Way to nitpick at one thing. If you read Nina's actual reply you would know what I was getting at, but no you rather be a smartass. Have fun.
Or if you scroll up you could see I talked about the whole post prior, she has some points and you can't just paint a wide stroke and say she doesn't, the cast wasn't as professional as it could have been like I said in my previous post. I don't see why so many people are white knighting here. If she wants to be taken seriously she could atleast dress it and focus on her casting rather than her gender..
Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
No. You don't like how she looks? Fine. Move along. You aren't going to get along with everybody. C'est la vie.
No I just don't enjoy her just using her gender as a reason to be watched if she'd like to do that she can just post a stream of her playing random games she'll still pull a pretty big audience obviously, if she'd ACTUALLY like to be a caster she can be professional and present herself as one. People are always making threads crying for e-sports to become more professional for the main stream but THIS is ok because she's female? Perfect sense, she asked for criticism and that's it more than a few posters have agreed wear a different shirt looool.
Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
No. You don't like how she looks? Fine. Move along. You aren't going to get along with everybody. C'est la vie.
When I see someone attempting to enter a casting gig, then I feel that they should take such a role seriously. You would not be sitting in a similar outfit behind the receptiondesk of a multi-million dollar company greeting important business leaders. Why? Because in such a case the company clothing etiquette asks you to be dressed formally.
I find it more than normal to require a public figure that's handling a job which involves people from all ages, to conform to this thing we call "professionality" and dress that way. As of now, her outfit screams for the fact that she's got big breasts, aswell as showing them both on stream, and with little research, on her adult-only website.
In the end, if you want to be a caster, stop looking like an adult model. If you want to look like a adult model don't go and be a public figure in a community with many younger children aswell. That's what bothers me.
On August 10 2012 06:40 StarStruck wrote: Looks like I have to highlight it for you:
Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
No. You don't like how she looks? Fine. Move along. You aren't going to get along with everybody. C'est la vie.
When I see someone attempting to enter a casting gig, then I feel that they should take such a role seriously. You would not be sitting in a similar outfit behind the receptiondesk of a multi-million dollar company greeting important business leaders. Why? Because in such a case the company clothing etiquette asks you to be dressed formally.
I find it more than normal to require a public figure that's handling a job which involves people from all ages, to conform to this thing we call "professionality" and dress that way. As of now, her outfit screams for the fact that she's got big breasts, aswell as showing them both on stream, and with little research, on her adult-only website.
In the end, if you want to be a caster, stop looking like an adult model. If you want to look like a adult model don't go and be a public figure in a community with many younger children aswell. That's what bothers me.
The thing is the girl isn't looking for a casting gig? ._.
She's doing this from what she calls h-o-m-e. You guys are taking this way to seriously and she does work as a model/journalist from what I've seen and read, so come off your high horses already.
There is no weight at all to what you or Nina have said because this is how Tara is at home, out with friends and at work.
This is her. All she did was make a little video from her home. She's not trying to replace guys like Sean or Nick so really you don't need to tell her how to dress or how to do her hair or make up.
There are girls who like to wear a lot of makeup no matter where it is. Once again, it's who she is so relax a little. -_-
StarStruck, you seem to miss the problem where she ASKED for feedback. We give it and now we're the villains? There's a lot of people constantly bashing the way that female community members at times profile themselves. Why would this be different. She wants to do something, great. She asks for feedback, we give it.
She doesn't have to like it, but you'll miss out on a LARGE group of people who actually do care about such things, like myself and Nina.
Edit: She does run as a model. However her website is 18+ only, which only strengthens my point.
Feedback with regards to the casting. Not with regards to how she dresses regularly. That's the whole point I'm trying to bring home here. The way she presented herself was as herself.
I'm sure if she was casting the GSL or MLG she would have others giving her feedback and helping her with wardrobe as they did with Nick and Dan so your points are mute.
Nina is nitpicking at stupid stereotypes. Unfortunately this is how Tara normally looks which is silly. This is the norm for her.
You don't have to like the way she looks or presents herself in public. What Nina said wasn't constructive feedback. All she did was attack Tara as a person.
So the comments on how she looks is ridiculous.
Like I said, there's wardrobe for professional sets. Tara's not trying to be professional; she's trying to be herself and trying to cast a frigging game and it's obvious she still has a lot to learn when it comes to the game which comes down to her schedule and how much she actually wants to get into the game.
On August 10 2012 06:40 StarStruck wrote: Looks like I have to highlight it for you:
Too much lipstick, bleached hair, and your cleavage-showing makes me face-palm.
No. You don't like how she looks? Fine. Move along. You aren't going to get along with everybody. C'est la vie.
When I see someone attempting to enter a casting gig, then I feel that they should take such a role seriously. You would not be sitting in a similar outfit behind the receptiondesk of a multi-million dollar company greeting important business leaders. Why? Because in such a case the company clothing etiquette asks you to be dressed formally.
I find it more than normal to require a public figure that's handling a job which involves people from all ages, to conform to this thing we call "professionality" and dress that way. As of now, her outfit screams for the fact that she's got big breasts, aswell as showing them both on stream, and with little research, on her adult-only website.
In the end, if you want to be a caster, stop looking like an adult model. If you want to look like a adult model don't go and be a public figure in a community with many younger children aswell. That's what bothers me.
The thing is the girl isn't looking for a casting gig? ._.
She's doing this from what she calls h-o-m-e. You guys are taking this way to seriously and she does work as a model/journalist from what I've seen and read, so come off your high horses already.
There is no weight at all to what you or Nina have said because this is how Tara is at home, out with friends and at work.
This is her. All she did was make a little video from her home. She's not trying to replace guys like Sean or Nick so really you don't need to tell her how to dress or how to do her hair or make up.
There are girls who like to wear a lot of makeup no matter where it is. Once again, it's who she is so relax a little. -_-
She's looking to improve and most likely look for a casting gig she does e-sports stuff already interviews ect, it wouldn't be a leap to say hey she may be looking to get into casting if she's posting on a professional gaming forum looking for CRITIQUE on her casting as it stands. And that's what more people than just me said wear a different shirt jesus lol, we are relaxed and giving tips to some girl that ASKED for them you're the one that seems to be pretty up in arms about us telling her to wear a different shirt to be professional.
Even my previous post said if she wasn't looking to be even somewhat professional or a community figure it doesn't matter how she dresses, but if she's looking to be and be a better caster and maybe cast an event some day she should I don't know where a different shirt?
Edit:
You don't have to like the way she looks or presents herself in public. What Nina said wasn't constructive feedback. All she did was attack Tara as a person. Where I come from, that isn't really feedback.
I wouldn't say talking about her distaste for her clothing while putting out a casting video is attacking her as a person lol... unless you're saying all she is is a low cut shirt make up and bleach blonde hair than that's definitely not attacking her as a person she's telling her to dress more professional when she's putting out videos ect interacting with the community so girls can be taken more seriously rather than just pulling crowds because of their gender.
I just said they have people helping with wardrobe when it comes to that, but somehow you guys keep missing those points.
Some people do it as a hobby man. They aren't necessarily looking for career in it lmao. As you guys and girls already know. She models and works as a journalist/blogger so there's already a lot on the girls plate. I don't see why people need to attack her for how she presents herself on any regular day.
You guys don't seem relaxed. If you have to go out of your way to attack a person or rally the point home then you're sending the opposite impression of being uptight and overly critical of something that is trivial. In her line of work, wardrobe changing is effortless.
I don't know about you but I was watching the replay and how she speaks instead of how she looked at the very beginning. Not nitpicking at a stupid shirt.
She already has a lot of work already and I don't think she's looking for a casting gig at this time.
As for your last question. When's the last time you saw Dan and Nick wear a t-shirt under a blazer? Yes, they do have people giving them tips on their wardrobe. -_-
If she did get a gig, I'm pretty sure there would be other people coaching her as well.
Kaeru, Why don't you start to follow the boards and read that the current 'metagame' for female casters is shifting AWAY from seductive appearance, and more to the actual skill of people. It's something that most people want to see.
If we'd want to see Tara purely because she's got a great figure, big breasts and a pretty face, then we can go to her website and drool there. But in a casting position it's about your skill as caster. When your cleavage takes that away and only puts you up as "the Blonde female caster with a huge rack" then you're failing.
Plenty of people don't want this, and she asks feedback. Deal with it.
On August 10 2012 07:44 StarStruck wrote: I just said they have people helping with wardrobe when it comes to that, but somehow you guys keep missing those points.
Some people do it as a hobby man. They aren't necessarily looking for career in it lmao. As you guys and girls already know. She models and works as a journalist/blogger so there's already a lot on the girls plate. I don't see why people need to attack her for how she presents herself on any regular day.
You guys don't seem relaxed. If you have to go out of your way to attack a person or rally the point home then you're sending the opposite impression of being uptight and overly critical of something that is trivial. In her line of work, wardrobe changing is effortless.
I don't know about you but I was watching the replay and how she speaks instead of how she looked at the very beginning. Not nitpicking at a stupid shirt.
She already has a lot of work already and I don't think she's looking for a casting gig at this time.
As for your last question. When's the last time you saw Dan and Nick wear a t-shirt under a blazer? Yes, they do have people giving them tips on their wardrobe. -_-
If she did get a gig, I'm pretty sure there would be other people coaching her as well.
You're telling me how she's heading in now way could I assume she'd be interested in getting on a professional level at it and become a community figure? Come on you're not even being realistic. And no ones attacking her rofl but everyones just lettering her know that it'd be better if she dressed professionally while casting?
I critiqued the casting too dude you're just completely ignoring that and like we've said if she wanted to PROFESSIONALLY she should try being a tad more professional. She's already heavily involved in esports for whatever reason it's ignorant to think now that she's trying to get better at casting she wouldn't try casting a small tournament or something of the like you need to calm down it's criticism that she ASKED for.
On August 10 2012 07:44 StarStruck wrote: I just said they have people helping with wardrobe when it comes to that, but somehow you guys keep missing those points.
Some people do it as a hobby man. They aren't necessarily looking for career in it lmao. As you guys and girls already know. She models and works as a journalist/blogger so there's already a lot on the girls plate. I don't see why people need to attack her for how she presents herself on any regular day.
You guys don't seem relaxed. If you have to go out of your way to attack a person or rally the point home then you're sending the opposite impression of being uptight and overly critical of something that is trivial. In her line of work, wardrobe changing is effortless.
I don't know about you but I was watching the replay and how she speaks instead of how she looked at the very beginning. Not nitpicking at a stupid shirt.
She already has a lot of work already and I don't think she's looking for a casting gig at this time.
As for your last question. When's the last time you saw Dan and Nick wear a t-shirt under a blazer? Yes, they do have people giving them tips on their wardrobe. -_-
If she did get a gig, I'm pretty sure there would be other people coaching her as well.
You're telling me how she's heading in now way could I assume she'd be interested in getting on a professional level at it and become a community figure? Come on you're not even being realistic. And no ones attacking her rofl but everyones just lettering her know that it'd be better if she dressed professionally while casting?
I critiqued the casting too dude you're just completely ignoring that and like we've said if she wanted to PROFESSIONALLY she should try being a tad more professional. She's already heavily involved in esports for whatever reason it's ignorant to think now that she's trying to get better at casting she wouldn't try casting a small tournament or something of the like you need to calm down it's criticism that she ASKED for.
In order to make this clear, I quote the OP
I have decided to try my hand at learning to cast, better my speaking and public presentation skills, and score myself a potential job within the eSports and gaming industry, all while improving my league ranking in StarCraft II and attempting to learn high-end gameplay strategy analysis skills! (Biggest run-on sentence, ever!)
This shows her AMBITION is to become a known community figure. That warrants what Jasper and I have been saying. You're aiming to be a professional? Start acting like one.
I wouldn't say talking about her distaste for her clothing while putting out a casting video is attacking her as a person lol... unless you're saying all she is is a low cut shirt make up and bleach blonde hair than that's definitely not attacking her as a person she's telling her to dress more professional when she's putting out videos ect interacting with the community so girls can be taken more seriously rather than just pulling crowds because of their gender.
Ugh, I don't know how you missed what I said earlier with regards to context. It becomes an attack when you knock the person down for being who they are. Yet the only beef you three seem to have is not in a professional setting! Well, fuck. Context. It isn't a professional setting, and you guys are giving tips on how to dress at home? This isn't a tournament, this isn't a live cast. She's doing this shit on her own and yet we have to criticize her for looking how she normally looks, which is pretty pathetic.
Aelonius,
Oh brother. This has nothing to do with that crap. You're projecting. She isn't trying to look professional literally. That's not the purpose or intent of what she did.
Put in the context. She wants to test herself by trying to cast a game and wants pointers on how she can improve from home as herself.
You already said your blurb about omg what is she wearing. How about trying to focus on the actual subtext. You know, the stuff that actually makes a caster a caster.
- How articulate is she? Speed, delivery, clear and concise? - Is she a good storyteller? - Game knowledge - Does she add more to the experience or not? Excitement level - etc.
*
You guys are looking at the wrong thing. No pun intended.
Wardrobe is easy to change. Everything else, not so much.
On August 10 2012 08:28 Aelonius wrote: StarStruck. If you ask for feedback then we judge that which you display. She choose to show cleavage, she bears the responses.
Which is low. You want to go down to that level then so be it. That's on you.
I wouldn't say talking about her distaste for her clothing while putting out a casting video is attacking her as a person lol... unless you're saying all she is is a low cut shirt make up and bleach blonde hair than that's definitely not attacking her as a person she's telling her to dress more professional when she's putting out videos ect interacting with the community so girls can be taken more seriously rather than just pulling crowds because of their gender.
Ugh, I don't know how you missed what I said earlier with regards to context. It becomes an attack when you knock the person down for being who they are. Yet the only beef you three seem to have is not in a professional setting! Well, fuck. Context. It isn't a professional setting, and you guys are giving tips on how to dress at home? This isn't a tournament, this isn't a live cast. She's doing this shit on her own and yet we have to criticize her for looking how she normally looks, which is pretty pathetic.
Aelonius,
Oh brother. This has nothing to do with that crap. You're projecting. She isn't trying to look professional literally. That's not the purpose or intent of what she did.
Put in the context. She wants to test herself by trying to cast a game and wants pointers on how she can improve from home as herself.
You already said your blurb about omg what is she wearing. How about trying to focus on the actual subtext. You know, the stuff that actually makes a caster a caster.
- How articulate is she? Speed, delivery, clear and concise? - Is she a good storyteller? - Game knowledge - Does she add more to the experience or not? Excitement level - etc.
*
You guys are looking at the wrong thing. No pun intended.
Wardrobe is easy to change. Everything else, not so much.
P.S. I'm calm as a cucumber.
This is absurd.
Dude how are we knocking her down we're just simply saying hey maybe where a less low cut shirt? You act like we're viciously attacking her character and who she is rofl. That was all we said maybe rethink how you're presenting yourself not even close to attacking her as a person. And like I said already went over her casting you're the person that took it to be a big deal that we said should wear a different shirt rofl.
Let me reiterate since it seems to be going over you " She needs an analytical caster because her knowledge is so limited she can just give play by play as far as what's happening."
She asked for criticism and got a full scope of it.
Nina most certainly did. I can read in between the lines and this isn't her first time either. Nina is known for attacking other women, so I'm not surprised. Instead of focusing on just what you said, perhaps you should look at the whole instead of the spare parts.
Um, no I wasn't? You have a really warped perspective.
I already got that bit fella. I was trying to steer the conversation towards the subtext rather than just judging a person based off their looks, which only a tool would do. It was for the whole blog. Not just you.
Overly critical to me means someone who makes a big deal out of nothing and you guys are going to complain about her wardrobe? ._.
In the context of this situation please. Stop being negative Nancies and defensive.
On August 10 2012 08:47 StarStruck wrote: Nina most certainly did. I can read in between the lines and this isn't her first time either. Nina is known for attacking other women, so I'm not surprised. Instead of focusing on just what you said, perhaps you should look at the whole instead of the spare parts.
Um, no I wasn't? You have a really warped perspective.
I already got that bit fella. I was trying to steer the conversation towards the subtext rather than just judging a person based off their looks, which only a tool would do. It was for the whole blog. Not just you.
Overly critical to me means someone who makes a big deal out of nothing and you guys are going to complain about her wardrobe? ._.
In the context of this situation please. Stop being negative Nancies and defensive.
Who cares she stopped replying pages ago and you've just been arguing with us.
Yeah you really were you just kept saying pay attention to her casting not just her wardrobe, we did both you just went right over it.
Who the fuck is judging off her looks other than Nina who stopped replying pages ago. Uh no she asked for criticism and we gave it to her were not complaining about shit. You may as well say I'm complaining she doesn't know much about the game or complaining her mouse movements while observer aren't smooth ect. We're just giving criticism like she asked for neither of us said anything bad about her remotely rofl. Giving criticism when it's asked for is now being a negative nancy GOT IT.
On August 10 2012 08:47 StarStruck wrote: Nina most certainly did. I can read in between the lines and this isn't her first time either. Nina is known for attacking other women, so I'm not surprised. Instead of focusing on just what you said, perhaps you should look at the whole instead of the spare parts.
Um, no I wasn't? You have a really warped perspective.
I already got that bit fella. I was trying to steer the conversation towards the subtext rather than just judging a person based off their looks, which only a tool would do. It was for the whole blog. Not just you.
Overly critical to me means someone who makes a big deal out of nothing and you guys are going to complain about her wardrobe? ._.
In the context of this situation please. Stop being negative Nancies and defensive.
Who cares she stopped replying pages ago and you've just been arguing with us.
Yeah you really were you just kept saying pay attention to her casting not just her wardrobe, we did both you just went right over it.
Who the fuck is judging off her looks other than Nina who stopped replying pages ago. Uh no she asked for criticism and we gave it to her were not complaining about shit. You may as well say I'm complaining she doesn't know much about the game or complaining her mouse movements while observer aren't smooth ect. We're just giving criticism like she asked for neither of us said anything bad about her remotely rofl. Giving criticism when it's asked for is now being a negative nancy GOT IT.
No I didn't? I only commented on ridiculous points which are just that. Ridiculous and don't say anything. The fact you brought it up means you have beef with how someone looks.
You can spin-doctor it all you want but you aren't fooling anyone.
I'm thoroughly enjoying this btw. Good entertainment.
On August 10 2012 08:47 StarStruck wrote: Nina most certainly did. I can read in between the lines and this isn't her first time either. Nina is known for attacking other women, so I'm not surprised. Instead of focusing on just what you said, perhaps you should look at the whole instead of the spare parts.
Um, no I wasn't? You have a really warped perspective.
I already got that bit fella. I was trying to steer the conversation towards the subtext rather than just judging a person based off their looks, which only a tool would do. It was for the whole blog. Not just you.
Overly critical to me means someone who makes a big deal out of nothing and you guys are going to complain about her wardrobe? ._.
In the context of this situation please. Stop being negative Nancies and defensive.
Who cares she stopped replying pages ago and you've just been arguing with us.
Yeah you really were you just kept saying pay attention to her casting not just her wardrobe, we did both you just went right over it.
Who the fuck is judging off her looks other than Nina who stopped replying pages ago. Uh no she asked for criticism and we gave it to her were not complaining about shit. You may as well say I'm complaining she doesn't know much about the game or complaining her mouse movements while observer aren't smooth ect. We're just giving criticism like she asked for neither of us said anything bad about her remotely rofl. Giving criticism when it's asked for is now being a negative nancy GOT IT.
No I didn't? I only commented on ridiculous points which are just that. Ridiculous and don't say anything. The fact you brought it up means you have beef with how someone looks.
You can spin-doctor it all you want but you aren't fooling anyone.
I'm thoroughly enjoying this btw. Good entertainment.
Don't care in the slightest how she looks but my whole point was she should present herself professionally and it doesn't matter if at events she'll have a wardrobe ect that's like going to a job interview hammered and saying but hey when I work here I'll come sober. Up to her whether she wants to be taken seriously or not, she's said in interviews she uses sex appeal to just to pull in an audience which is fine for her reviews she does ect but in a professional capacity casting it should be a tad bit different. And saying oh she isn't professional isn't a valid point she's learning how to be an efficient caster and logically she'd be interested in casting larger things she sees herself as a community person. It's just a small critique in the grand scheme of things that people would take her more seriously if she just wore a different shirt.... Don't care about what Nina said about her make up ect ect ect honestly just that she should dress a tad more professionally when casting lol.
Horrendous. Could not watch more than 1 minute. 0 stars out of 5 on the Netflix scale. Also put some clothes on. This is starcraft. You are not running chips in a casino.
Stop talking about my wardrobe being unprofessional. It's not. It's actually just some casual clothing from Abercrombie and Fitch. It's just cleavage, mine just happens to be more pronounced than other girls. I will not even consider comments to change the way I dress, act, present myself as a person, etc.
I will better myself as a caster with knowledge of the game and speaking skills while still being myself and doing what I like. Most people will dig the person behind the great cast. Those who don't, don't follow my career!
And just as a little side note? Of course multi-million dollar corporations hire girls that look "sexy" and show cleavage. The girls would just be wearing a button-down blouse rather than a casual shirt.
Listen to Starstruck. He mirrors my thoughts more or less. If you look back, I already stated I don't want to hear about my look and will not reply about it any longer, but alas, you guys seem to have missed that.
(I'm on my phone, so excuse typos. When I get home I'll edit the OP to include NOT mentioning your opinion on cleavage, sexuality, or my look, and personality. It's unwelcome and IMO irrelevant.)
On August 10 2012 09:41 TaraBabcock wrote: Stop talking about my wardrobe being unprofessional. It's not. It's actually just some casual clothing from Abercrombie and Fitch. It's just cleavage, mine just happens to be more pronounced than other girls. I will not even consider comments to change the way I dress, act, present myself as a person, etc.
I will better myself as a caster with knowledge of the game and speaking skills while still being myself and doing what I like. Most people will dig the person behind the great cast. Those who don't, don't follow my career!
And just as a little side note? Of course multi-million dollar corporations hire girls that look "sexy" and show cleavage. The girls would just be wearing a button-down blouse rather than a casual shirt.
Listen to Starstruck. He mirrors my thoughts more or less. If you look back, I already stated I don't want to hear about my look and will not reply about it any longer, but alas, you guys seem to have missed that.
(I'm on my phone, so excuse typos. When I get home I'll edit the OP to include NOT mentioning your opinion on cleavage, sexuality, or my look, and personality. It's unwelcome and IMO irrelevant.)
It's not really irrelevant. If you're a broadcaster that ever appears on camera your wardrobe/camera framing/video quality/sound quality all matter quite a bit.
On August 10 2012 08:47 StarStruck wrote: Nina most certainly did. I can read in between the lines and this isn't her first time either. Nina is known for attacking other women, so I'm not surprised. Instead of focusing on just what you said, perhaps you should look at the whole instead of the spare parts.
Um, no I wasn't? You have a really warped perspective.
I already got that bit fella. I was trying to steer the conversation towards the subtext rather than just judging a person based off their looks, which only a tool would do. It was for the whole blog. Not just you.
Overly critical to me means someone who makes a big deal out of nothing and you guys are going to complain about her wardrobe? ._.
In the context of this situation please. Stop being negative Nancies and defensive.
Who cares she stopped replying pages ago and you've just been arguing with us.
Yeah you really were you just kept saying pay attention to her casting not just her wardrobe, we did both you just went right over it.
Who the fuck is judging off her looks other than Nina who stopped replying pages ago. Uh no she asked for criticism and we gave it to her were not complaining about shit. You may as well say I'm complaining she doesn't know much about the game or complaining her mouse movements while observer aren't smooth ect. We're just giving criticism like she asked for neither of us said anything bad about her remotely rofl. Giving criticism when it's asked for is now being a negative nancy GOT IT.
No I didn't? I only commented on ridiculous points which are just that. Ridiculous and don't say anything. The fact you brought it up means you have beef with how someone looks.
You can spin-doctor it all you want but you aren't fooling anyone.
I'm thoroughly enjoying this btw. Good entertainment.
Don't care in the slightest how she looks but my whole point was she should present herself professionally and it doesn't matter if at events she'll have a wardrobe ect that's like going to a job interview hammered and saying but hey when I work here I'll come sober. Up to her whether she wants to be taken seriously or not, she's said in interviews she uses sex appeal to just to pull in an audience which is fine for her reviews she does ect but in a professional capacity casting it should be a tad bit different. And saying oh she isn't professional isn't a valid point she's learning how to be an efficient caster and logically she'd be interested in casting larger things she sees herself as a community person. It's just a small critique in the grand scheme of things that people would take her more seriously if she just wore a different shirt.... Don't care about what Nina said about her make up ect ect ect honestly just that she should dress a tad more professionally when casting lol.
One last time.
You project her in a professional setting, which she isn't in. It's like saying, "Everyone should wear a tie and suit on skype or when filming a vlog." There's a preconceived notion in your head on what behaviour is appropriate and which isn't when it comes to any SC cast. In other words, you take the situation out of context and project her into a GSL like setting, which this isn't. That's like the seventh time I said that, which is absurd in itself.
My question to you is why are you projecting? Because she wants to do more stuff in esports? Give me a break. If she did get called up the organizers would advise her. As I've already stated. Look at what happened with Dan and Nick. They aren't allowed to promote their t-shirts anymore when they cast and we always see them in a suit and tie. You think they chose this on their own accord? Wrong. They're getting consultation. Sundance told them to wear a damn shirt at MLG because that's the image he wants to send. They did it. Same shit in modelling. We get told what to wear and we wear it for the shoot etc. If Tara were to get picked up anywhere. I'm sure she would get similar feedback. In the end, your comments are overexcessive and have no real purpose when you apply all the context.
Instead it embraces the "Holy shit, these guys are so anal about how everyone looks!" stupid stereotype. I'm telling you those type of comments are counter-productive and once you let the rabbit out of the hat. It's out there for everyone to pick at. Regardless of what good constructive criticism you might have.
This is how human behaviour works. If you say or do something stupid or funny (in many cases it's both) that's all people will talk about.
Just like what I'm doing right now.
She doesn't need random people on the internet telling her how to dress when she's at home doing her own thing. Because that's what this is. It's her own thing. You don't like how she dresses when she's at home because everyone is supposed to look professional when they're commentating? Tell me this, how many times did she appear on camera when she was commenting the replay? That's what I thought, so how does that have any relevance to what she was doing other than the fact you were projecting her into an ARENA like atmosphere.
That's not her problem. It's your's man. I'm just getting a good laugh out of it. That's all.
On August 10 2012 09:41 TaraBabcock wrote: Stop talking about my wardrobe being unprofessional. It's not. It's actually just some casual clothing from Abercrombie and Fitch. It's just cleavage, mine just happens to be more pronounced than other girls. I will not even consider comments to change the way I dress, act, present myself as a person, etc.
I will better myself as a caster with knowledge of the game and speaking skills while still being myself and doing what I like. Most people will dig the person behind the great cast. Those who don't, don't follow my career!
And just as a little side note? Of course multi-million dollar corporations hire girls that look "sexy" and show cleavage. The girls would just be wearing a button-down blouse rather than a casual shirt.
Listen to Starstruck. He mirrors my thoughts more or less. If you look back, I already stated I don't want to hear about my look and will not reply about it any longer, but alas, you guys seem to have missed that.
(I'm on my phone, so excuse typos. When I get home I'll edit the OP to include NOT mentioning your opinion on cleavage, sexuality, or my look, and personality. It's unwelcome and IMO irrelevant.)
It's not really irrelevant. If you're a broadcaster that ever appears on camera your wardrobe/camera framing/video quality/sound quality all matter quite a bit.
Should we start talking about how unprofessional Day[9] is for wearing sweaty t-shirts and eating pizza on stream? How about DjWheat swearing and ranting on his streams? Those two are some of the most professional in the industry. You have to look at the venue and the context. When Wheat and Day go to an MLG they'll dress, compose and handle themselves differently than when they make a casual stream from home. Same thing I see here.
Cleavage and a pound of makeup to attract the viewers kind of throws me off. If your content is good, you'll build a real audience that watches your stuff for your talents, and not because they're horny. But I guess you know who you're catering to, so cheers.
Hi, I watched your cast, it was very good for your first cast, but I have a few suggestions related to speech and presentation. I cast and do a fair amount of public speaking, so I hope I can help.
Your voice is somewhat monotone at times-you're excited and enthusiastic about the game, so show it! When I'm casting LoL, I really try to be dramatic, varying intonation and volume.
Refer to players by name and not pronouns like "he" or implied ones like "Gonna kill that scout". People watching need audio clues to determine who is taking what action.
Analyze the long-term impacts of player decision. Narrating the game is fine for your first time, but you really want to know what that turret placement means, what that tech decision will lead to. When you say something, say what could happen, and your game skill and casting ability will improve.
Okay, back to intonation. Your sentences are a lot like these lines.
-------------------------------------------------
------------------/\
Basically, you vary your volume, but you need to emphasize words by slowing down and not drifting off at the end of your sentence.
ex: "Kind of pushing Stephano back from his vision vantage point"
Should be: "Kind of pushing Stephano(volume up) back from his vision vantage point, so he's going to have much less forewarning if Keen decides to follow this up with a counterpush or flank"
Remember, slow words with intonation is much better than raising the volume of your voice.
Never ever be nervous. You've probably learned this as an aspiring model, but people hate self-doubt. I don't care if this is your first cast, never ever say that it's your first cast while casting, it just highlghts inexperience, and you never ever want your viewers to think that.
Just some final thoughts. The comments about your clothing and background? Don't listen. Your appearance is your choice, and if people are uncomfortable, they can alt-tab out and listen to your voice until you start casting. It's absurd to think that someone cannot be enthusiastic, professional, or connect with their audience because of how they dress.
Good first cast, Tara. I wish you luck with your channel and career, and keep posting your casts for criticism and improvement!
Remember, intonation and understanding long-term decision-making separate the casual casters from the best ones.
On August 10 2012 09:41 TaraBabcock wrote: Stop talking about my wardrobe being unprofessional. It's not. It's actually just some casual clothing from Abercrombie and Fitch. It's just cleavage, mine just happens to be more pronounced than other girls. I will not even consider comments to change the way I dress, act, present myself as a person, etc.
Then you've already failed. Dress for the job you want, not for the job you have.
On August 10 2012 13:54 fAnTaCy wrote: You guys are fully aware that..during the cast...you couldn't see her..at all right?.........
This is a valid point. You should put one of those little camera things in the bottom corner so we can see you during the casts. Also, your boobs are very nice and you shouldn't hide them like these angry ranboobs are suggesting. They aren't your target audience.
On August 10 2012 13:54 fAnTaCy wrote: You guys are fully aware that..during the cast...you couldn't see her..at all right?.........
This is a valid point. You should put one of those little camera things in the bottom corner so we can see you during the casts. Also, your boobs are very nice and you shouldn't hide them like these angry ranboobs are suggesting. They aren't your target audience.
What this guy said..fuck the whiny bitches...it's your youtube/stream do as you will..and iirc..people keep bringing up kennigit..and I believe he said..if you have boobs..show cleavage..since you know..it sells
On August 10 2012 12:40 Praetorial wrote: Hi, I watched your cast, it was very good for your first cast, but I have a few suggestions related to speech and presentation. I cast and do a fair amount of public speaking, so I hope I can help.
Your voice is somewhat monotone at times-you're excited and enthusiastic about the game, so show it! When I'm casting LoL, I really try to be dramatic, varying intonation and volume.
Refer to players by name and not pronouns like "he" or implied ones like "Gonna kill that scout". People watching need audio clues to determine who is taking what action.
Analyze the long-term impacts of player decision. Narrating the game is fine for your first time, but you really want to know what that turret placement means, what that tech decision will lead to. When you say something, say what could happen, and your game skill and casting ability will improve.
Okay, back to intonation. Your sentences are a lot like these lines.
-------------------------------------------------
------------------/\
Basically, you vary your volume, but you need to emphasize words by slowing down and not drifting off at the end of your sentence.
ex: "Kind of pushing Stephano back from his vision vantage point"
Should be: "Kind of pushing Stephano(volume up) back from his vision vantage point, so he's going to have much less forewarning if Keen decides to follow this up with a counterpush or flank"
Remember, slow words with intonation is much better than raising the volume of your voice.
Never ever be nervous. You've probably learned this as an aspiring model, but people hate self-doubt. I don't care if this is your first cast, never ever say that it's your first cast while casting, it just highlghts inexperience, and you never ever want your viewers to think that.
Just some final thoughts. The comments about your clothing and background? Don't listen. Your appearance is your choice, and if people are uncomfortable, they can alt-tab out and listen to your voice until you start casting. It's absurd to think that someone cannot be enthusiastic, professional, or connect with their audience because of how they dress.
Good first cast, Tara. I wish you luck with your channel and career, and keep posting your casts for criticism and improvement!
Remember, intonation and understanding long-term decision-making separate the casual casters from the best ones.
Thanks very much! One of the best and most helpful posts so far! I'll do my best! So much to start practicing and learning! >.<
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine. Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
I don't doubt for a moment that you're an actual gamer. Nor do I disapprove of your choice of day job.
But what you're doing here is incredibly self-serving.
Gaming is a community that's utterly toxic to females. A community that has a problem with every single identified girl getting accosted with "tits or gtfo" is not helped by someone actually providing the former.
I know careers have been launched from licking PSPs, but that isn't any sort of defense.
I'm not calling for anyone to stop you or censor you, I just want to inform you that you're causing actual harm to people who aren't you. And that I don't for one moment buy the idea that you sandwiched your casting practice between lengthy sections of you hawking your wares without realizing what the effect is.
And of course I realize I'm further bumping your blog post up that sidebar, where more hormone-addled teenagers will find their way to your entrepreneurial efforts.
On August 10 2012 20:34 yeint wrote: I don't doubt for a moment that you're an actual gamer. Nor do I disapprove of your choice of day job.
But what you're doing here is incredibly self-serving.
Gaming is a community that's utterly toxic to females. A community that has a problem with every single identified girl getting accosted with "tits or gtfo" is not helped by someone actually providing the former.
I know careers have been launched from licking PSPs, but that isn't any sort of defense.
I'm not calling for anyone to stop you or censor you, I just want to inform you that you're causing actual harm to people who aren't you. And that I don't for one moment buy the idea that you sandwiched your casting practice between lengthy sections of you hawking your wares without realizing what the effect is.
And of course I realize I'm further bumping your blog post up that sidebar, where more hormone-addled teenagers will find their way to your entrepreneurial efforts.
If I am doing what I have the passion for with whatever means I have available, and bringing new people into the eSports fray, making new eyes open to the gaming scene as being more than just a bunch of "nerds in their mom's basement", why is it so bad if I also gain a new side-career as well?
It's ridiculous how concerned you all are with my "intentions" as if I need to be ignorant of what sells in order for my presence to be "worthy" enough, or "pure".
I am not hurting anyone, I am simply a person with passion and a bunch of good ideas, business sense, and a killer drive.
As with my appearance and its "appropriate-ness", I refuse to acknowledge any more posts regarding my intentions and how it looks to people who are simply judgmental and assuming.
It's ridiculous how concerned you all are with my "intentions" as if I need to be ignorant of what sells in order for my presence to be "worthy" enough, or "pure".
I'm not concerned with your intentions at all, I'm simply calling bullshit on your previous denial of said intentions. And no, you're not bringing anyone to the eSports fray. The consumers of your other content close the tab or turn the page, because when you knowingly objectify yourself (perfectly fine, by the way), people don't care who you actually are.
I am not hurting anyone, I am simply a person with passion and a bunch of good ideas, business sense, and a killer drive.
You are hurting women and girls who want to be part of the gaming community by perpetuating the mentality that female contributions are invalid if they don't involve titillation of the audience. Amazingly enough, most people don't want that sort of attention, and yet they receive it in droves.
Female gamers and casters should be recognized on their merits as gamers and casters. It would be exceedingly easy for you to separate your casting from your modeling. Tilt the webcam up about an inch. Post your gaming content on a channel with no pinup backgrounds. You are now magically not selling sex, but gaming content instead.
I refuse to acknowledge any more posts regarding my intentions and how it looks to people who are simply judgmental and assuming.
Of course I'm being judgmental. Your behavior is irresponsible and harmful to the scene.
But since you've adopted an impregnable position of defensiveness, there's really no point in belaboring this. You don't see any merit in what I'm saying, and consider me some sort of prude who objects to people having a careers as pinup girls.
I sincerely wish you all the best with your modeling, and I sincerely hope you never cast a single major esports event in a bikini.
It's ridiculous how concerned you all are with my "intentions" as if I need to be ignorant of what sells in order for my presence to be "worthy" enough, or "pure".
I'm not concerned with your intentions at all, I'm simply calling bullshit on your previous denial of said intentions. And no, you're not bringing anyone to the eSports fray. The consumers of your other content close the tab or turn the page, because when you knowingly objectify yourself (perfectly fine, by the way), people don't care who you actually are.
I am not hurting anyone, I am simply a person with passion and a bunch of good ideas, business sense, and a killer drive.
You are hurting women and girls who want to be part of the gaming community by perpetuating the mentality that female contributions are invalid if they don't involve titillation of the audience. Amazingly enough, most people don't want that sort of attention, and yet they receive it in droves.
Female gamers and casters should be recognized on their merits as gamers and casters. It would be exceedingly easy for you to separate your casting from your modeling. Tilt the webcam up about an inch. Post your gaming content on a channel with no pinup backgrounds. You are now magically not selling sex, but gaming content instead.
I refuse to acknowledge any more posts regarding my intentions and how it looks to people who are simply judgmental and assuming.
Of course I'm being judgmental. Your behavior is irresponsible and harmful to the scene.
But since you've adopted an impregnable position of defensiveness, there's really no point in belaboring this. You don't see any merit in what I'm saying, and consider me some sort of prude who objects to people having a careers as pinup girls.
I sincerely wish you all the best with your modeling, and I sincerely hope you never cast a single major esports event in a bikini.
People must have:
1. Skill
2. Luck
3. Business sense or an agent
4. Something unique or a hook
My hook is being sexy, interesting, and sharing my strong personality. Other girls do not need to be sexy, they can be funny, or have another interesting niche. When I cast MLG, I will do so in their attire, as does everyone else who casts there.
I've also introduced numerous people to the eSports scene. I brought people into it, and since SC2 is such an awesome game, they were hooked to that aspect as well.
People really need to get past exhibiting sexuality as a bad thing, and disregard the stigma that encompasses people who are comfortable with sexuality. People like you are the ones objectifying women by saying that their being sexual is bad, not the men that like it and the women that do it. Don't push your prudish, outdated morals on others.
I am not saying I want jobs based on my looks. I want jobs based on the skills I will develop. The looks are only an added interesting thing about me, along with my personality, outgoing nature, and everything else non-judgmental people love about me.
Of course, you will continue to argue, but for the other who are open-minded and reading this thread, I have stated my piece and will engage this nonsense no longer.
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
It's ridiculous how concerned you all are with my "intentions" as if I need to be ignorant of what sells in order for my presence to be "worthy" enough, or "pure".
I'm not concerned with your intentions at all, I'm simply calling bullshit on your previous denial of said intentions. And no, you're not bringing anyone to the eSports fray. The consumers of your other content close the tab or turn the page, because when you knowingly objectify yourself (perfectly fine, by the way), people don't care who you actually are.
I am not hurting anyone, I am simply a person with passion and a bunch of good ideas, business sense, and a killer drive.
You are hurting women and girls who want to be part of the gaming community by perpetuating the mentality that female contributions are invalid if they don't involve titillation of the audience. Amazingly enough, most people don't want that sort of attention, and yet they receive it in droves.
Female gamers and casters should be recognized on their merits as gamers and casters. It would be exceedingly easy for you to separate your casting from your modeling. Tilt the webcam up about an inch. Post your gaming content on a channel with no pinup backgrounds. You are now magically not selling sex, but gaming content instead.
I refuse to acknowledge any more posts regarding my intentions and how it looks to people who are simply judgmental and assuming.
Of course I'm being judgmental. Your behavior is irresponsible and harmful to the scene.
But since you've adopted an impregnable position of defensiveness, there's really no point in belaboring this. You don't see any merit in what I'm saying, and consider me some sort of prude who objects to people having a careers as pinup girls.
I sincerely wish you all the best with your modeling, and I sincerely hope you never cast a single major esports event in a bikini.
Though this may be your opinion, don't assume it's what everyone thinks. Tara is just doing what she does lol, and I think guys will have to adjust their mentality as computer gaming continues to become more and more mainstream and girls become more and more involved.
It's not a fact that her behaviour is "irresponsible and harmful to the scene" - that's your opinion (which is fine for you to have).
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
The incessant argument of "and you're hurting esports" is becoming funny, especially in the intensely self righteous posts. Like, yeah. Continue speaking like a total douchebag, you're doing great things for the image of the average gamer.
On August 10 2012 22:10 TaraBabcock wrote:People like you are the ones objectifying women by saying that their being sexual is bad, not the men that like it and the women that do it. Don't push your prudish, outdated morals on others.
The idea that anyone who doesn't want sexuality shoved in their face when they try to listen to a sc2 commentary is a prude is pretty fucking absurd. It's not prudish to want sexuality to not be used to dilute and draw attention from something you take seriously. I love boobs and I love sexuality and I'm happy to see boobs and enjoy the expressions of sexuality of people but I do those outside of when I'm listening to a sc2 commentary.
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
There have been a lot females in SC and WC3 scene not in need to do do a good job without boobwhiping and sex...
On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote: Starstruck Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine. Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
I don't know how you can be that slow. Two opposite worlds apparently. You aren't going to change how a person is. If you think you can change a person who is only being themselves then you have another fucking thing coming to ya buster.
Lots of women dress like her. Anywhere. It doesn't matter the setting.
On August 10 2012 22:10 TaraBabcock wrote:People like you are the ones objectifying women by saying that their being sexual is bad, not the men that like it and the women that do it. Don't push your prudish, outdated morals on others.
The idea that anyone who doesn't want sexuality shoved in their face when they try to listen to a sc2 commentary is a prude is pretty fucking absurd. It's not prudish to want sexuality to not be used to dilute and draw attention from something you take seriously. I love boobs and I love sexuality and I'm happy to see boobs and enjoy the expressions of sexuality of people but I do those outside of when I'm listening to a sc2 commentary.
Goes back to what I said earlier, you don't actually she her while she's casting so I don't see the problem in that. Like you said, you're listening to the cast. ._.
On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote: Starstruck Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine. Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
Aelonius Let me spell this out for you:
Dressing whatever way is fine. Being a prude about a few minutes of looking at cleavage and then ignoring the cast itself? That's not really very open-minded.
I stopped taking your argument seriously as soon as I saw the corresponding sentence, as I feel being so judgemental is wrong. It stops me from listening when you say that appearance one way or the other is a factor in hearing someone cast. But just because you can't stop look and have to make angry comments about such, does not mean the rest of us share your adolescent tendencies. Until that is understood by people like you, there's a big group that doesn't give a damn. If you want to see highly conservative women's dress, go play SC2 in Iran, but don't come here bitching about how you can't stand someone's clothing. It hurts you and makes you look like a complete prude.
I actually don't know or care what TotalBiscuit looks like. His commentary is that good, so I don't give a damn about his appearance.
Commentators don't get paid to look good unless they are Craig Sager. Yes, I know she's not being paid.
Aside from that the commentary seemed to be just things as they were happening. No real insight or foresight. I don't think it's a bad thing to be "bubbly", for lack of a better word, but it was distracting at times.
if tara babcock manages to develop her analytical ability to the level of the likes of apollo or artosis, or becomes capable of being a play by play commentator rivalling husky or djwheat, then hopefully her appearance is not going to be considered a detractor from her skill as a caster. But likewise, until she becomes as good as the aforementioned casters, or at least on the level of other event-casters, she doesn't get to cast any of them..
On August 11 2012 07:16 tonight wrote: Commentators don't get paid to look good unless they are Craig Sager. Yes, I know she's not being paid.
Aside from that the commentary seemed to be just things as they were happening. No real insight or foresight. I don't think it's a bad thing to be "bubbly", for lack of a better word, but it was distracting at times.
Unless you're Craig Sager? Excuse me. What about Don Cherry? He is the epitome of good looking commentators. Just look at that wardrobe. I think any SC2 commentator would be proud to have such a wide wardrobe of fine suits.
To be completely honest, it was just boring. Put your personality into it, have energy. You're simply saying what you see, and it just makes it bland. Say what you think might happen, or play enough that you know what they're doing, what's important about the map in matchup XvY, etc.
On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote: Starstruck Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine. Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
Aelonius Let me spell this out for you:
Dressing whatever way is fine. Being a prude about a few minutes of looking at cleavage and then ignoring the cast itself? That's not really very open-minded.
I stopped taking your argument seriously as soon as I saw the corresponding sentence, as I feel being so judgemental is wrong. It stops me from listening when you say that appearance one way or the other is a factor in hearing someone cast. But just because you can't stop look and have to make angry comments about such, does not mean the rest of us share your adolescent tendencies. Until that is understood by people like you, there's a big group that doesn't give a damn. If you want to see highly conservative women's dress, go play SC2 in Iran, but don't come here bitching about how you can't stand someone's clothing. It hurts you and makes you look like a complete prude.
I actually don't know or care what TotalBiscuit looks like. His commentary is that good, so I don't give a damn about his appearance.
It's a simple thing. You're asking for serious responses to your casting, which also includes appearance. Especially with professional aspirations. My point is simple, that during these casts it is better to adjust to your audience. Look at how tasteless does it in terms of profanity online and offline. The same with dressing. See Tastosis, you see a blouse and a tie, while under the desk they wear shorts. Yet we don't see what's under the desk, so it's not important. That's what I try to advocate here, and what a lot of people have been saying on numerous cases.
Edit to clarify:
There's a difference between being underdressed, and being properly dressed to the occasion. It is something you're going to have to think about if you make a public appearance.
On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote: Starstruck Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine. Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
Aelonius Let me spell this out for you:
Dressing whatever way is fine. Being a prude about a few minutes of looking at cleavage and then ignoring the cast itself? That's not really very open-minded.
I stopped taking your argument seriously as soon as I saw the corresponding sentence, as I feel being so judgemental is wrong. It stops me from listening when you say that appearance one way or the other is a factor in hearing someone cast. But just because you can't stop look and have to make angry comments about such, does not mean the rest of us share your adolescent tendencies. Until that is understood by people like you, there's a big group that doesn't give a damn. If you want to see highly conservative women's dress, go play SC2 in Iran, but don't come here bitching about how you can't stand someone's clothing. It hurts you and makes you look like a complete prude.
I actually don't know or care what TotalBiscuit looks like. His commentary is that good, so I don't give a damn about his appearance.
It's a simple thing. You're asking for serious responses to your casting, which also includes appearance. Especially with professional aspirations. My point is simple, that during these casts it is better to adjust to your audience. Look at how tasteless does it in terms of profanity online and offline. The same with dressing. See Tastosis, you see a blouse and a tie, while under the desk they wear shorts. Yet we don't see what's under the desk, so it's not important. That's what I try to advocate here, and what a lot of people have been saying on numerous cases.
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
On August 10 2012 22:10 TaraBabcock wrote:People like you are the ones objectifying women by saying that their being sexual is bad, not the men that like it and the women that do it. Don't push your prudish, outdated morals on others.
The idea that anyone who doesn't want sexuality shoved in their face when they try to listen to a sc2 commentary is a prude is pretty fucking absurd. It's not prudish to want sexuality to not be used to dilute and draw attention from something you take seriously. I love boobs and I love sexuality and I'm happy to see boobs and enjoy the expressions of sexuality of people but I do those outside of when I'm listening to a sc2 commentary.
IMO, that's ridiculous. I don't go, "Oh, I love muscles, but I just can't concentrate on SC2 when Khaldor wears his muscle shirt! ZOMG PLEASE COVER UP!"
IMO it's the best of both worlds so, if you don't like my casting, don't watch. If you don't like the cleavage, ignore it... or don't watch. Most people will just think it's a cool added touch, or interesting that I am able to break stereotypes.
And for the other guy who said I won't get jobs if I am not on the level of other casters... Exactly! That's what I am saying. This is not a plea to put me on the payroll as a caster before I am ready... just because I am "sexy". >.<
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude
EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
I could not finish the intro sorry, and yes it was because your boobs were staring me in the face again sorry, but they were. Its not the thing I find professional by any means. I am not trying to pick on you or be mean but at a glance I think fake barbie and wont give you the time of day be it in a game,casting, in the grocery store or a porno. It is not right by any means but I will and do judge you by your looks at first and your first glance did not offer me anything I am interested in. But good luck there are tons of hormone ridden kids waiting !!!
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to:
We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.
Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line.
Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve.
If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting?
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude
EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist.
Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot.
I'm sure if she showed up in a suit we'd all be making fun of it, since it would look weird for her to be at home in a suit like a weirdo. So this isn't at all about how "professional" she's dressed, it's about covering up her cleavage. This would entail her wearing an entirely different kind of shirt, because her boobs are big, and most of the shirts she wears would just look weird if she just pulled them up. She's already stated that in a professional setting, she'd wear a suit or w/e is necessary, so this "advice" has already been taken into consideration, not ignored as stated by Aelonus: "It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give." So now everyone should chill and stop saying shit like "I could not finish the intro sorry, and yes it was because your boobs were staring me in the face again sorry, but they were", because that's just annoying and disrespectful.
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to:
We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.
Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line.
Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve.
If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting?
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude
EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist.
Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot.
I don't even know why you are telling me to go live in Iran when I clearly said that its just female nature and it is what it is and I accept it. I just said that this is hard to take seriously because of how she dressed. What is your problem? you need to stop jacking off with a sandpaper
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to:
We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.
Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line.
Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve.
If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting?
Practice what you preach!
On August 11 2012 10:22 Elegance wrote:
On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude
EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist.
Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot.
I don't even know why you are telling me to go live in Iran when I clearly said that its just female nature and it is what it is and I accept it. I just said that this is hard to take seriously because of how she dressed. What is your problem? you need to stop jacking off with a sandpaper
This
It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots
Was pretty fucking annoying, enough to call you a sexist.
This is why female gamers will never be taken seriously. That and they just are not good. Instead of trying to sell us on your body, sell us on what you have to offer in terms of starcraft, if anything.
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to:
We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.
Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line.
Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve.
If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting?
Practice what you preach!
On August 11 2012 10:22 Elegance wrote:
On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:
On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote: First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude
EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist.
Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot.
I don't even know why you are telling me to go live in Iran when I clearly said that its just female nature and it is what it is and I accept it. I just said that this is hard to take seriously because of how she dressed. What is your problem? you need to stop jacking off with a sandpaper
It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots
Was pretty fucking annoying, enough to call you a sexist.
I can see that you deny that claim, but you can't just call me sexist with that comment. Men and women are different. How we attract the opposite sex is different. It is absolutely no lie that males value looks, tits and ass quite highly in a female. The females know this and showcase it to beat out the other girls. Believe what you want but that's how we've evolved. So don't call other people sexist for pointing out that men have penis and women have vaginas. Thanks
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
Wrong. I tune into Day[9]'s show to jack off.
Also, did it hurt anyone that he fixed the 2 front teeth? Because he did it to improve his physical appearance... OMG what an asshole! Now I stand no chance to ever do good in SC2, I quit!
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
Wrong. I tune into Day[9]'s show to jack off.
Also, did it hurt anyone that he fixed the 2 front teeth? Because he did it to improve his physical appearance... OMG what an asshole! Now I stand no chance to ever do good in SC2, I quit!
The difference lies in the fact that Day[9] has already achieved by skill what many people aspire to achieve. That he changes his appearance AFTER he makes a name by skill. And even then it's a minimal change which you'd really notice only if you'd pay attention to it. That's the exact opposite to putting on a less revealing shirt to start off.
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
Wrong. I tune into Day[9]'s show to jack off.
Also, did it hurt anyone that he fixed the 2 front teeth? Because he did it to improve his physical appearance... OMG what an asshole! Now I stand no chance to ever do good in SC2, I quit!
The difference lies in the fact that Day[9] has already achieved by skill what many people aspire to achieve. That he changes his appearance AFTER he makes a name by skill. And even then it's a minimal change which you'd really notice only if you'd pay attention to it. That's the exact opposite to putting on a less revealing shirt to start off.
So you are actually saying that the difference is the order of things? Hmm, OK, so if Day[9] fixed his teeth before he was skilled at sc... He'd fail horribly... Got it.
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
Wrong. I tune into Day[9]'s show to jack off.
Also, did it hurt anyone that he fixed the 2 front teeth? Because he did it to improve his physical appearance... OMG what an asshole! Now I stand no chance to ever do good in SC2, I quit!
The difference lies in the fact that Day[9] has already achieved by skill what many people aspire to achieve. That he changes his appearance AFTER he makes a name by skill. And even then it's a minimal change which you'd really notice only if you'd pay attention to it. That's the exact opposite to putting on a less revealing shirt to start off.
So you are actually saying that the difference is the order of things? Hmm, OK, so if Day[9] fixed his teeth before he was skilled at sc... He'd fail horribly... Got it.
Wrong. Day[9] choose to fix a minor issue that he'd probaly fix if he'd be in any other field of work. He is the person that worked hard without needing that change to achieve something. If Sean would fix his teeth before, that would not have been any change as that wouldn't be what gets him to be in the position he is now. He still achieved that position with his skills.
With Tara's appearance, she sets the primary asset that she has on a show, to be her body. For that, we've got her personal website if we'd like. She does not show her skill before looks, and instead rages at everyone disagreeing with her style of clothing. That's what bothers me.
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
Wrong. I tune into Day[9]'s show to jack off.
Also, did it hurt anyone that he fixed the 2 front teeth? Because he did it to improve his physical appearance... OMG what an asshole! Now I stand no chance to ever do good in SC2, I quit!
The difference lies in the fact that Day[9] has already achieved by skill what many people aspire to achieve. That he changes his appearance AFTER he makes a name by skill. And even then it's a minimal change which you'd really notice only if you'd pay attention to it. That's the exact opposite to putting on a less revealing shirt to start off.
Obviously, if you think Day[9] became more attractive after the dailies, then you haven't seen this:
I get mixed feelings from this. Commentary is on par with JD and Husky, yet the lipstick could definitely be brighter and I'd like to see more cleavage.
Just to add 2 ppl in caster scene that did/do a good job, not using unnatural help to get heard. (poor Sean shouldn´t be the only one in this discussion)
I'm fairly certain this thread has nothing to do with casting anymore. In fact, I don't think it ever did. Next time you need to dress like Roseanne Barr and then everyone will shut the hell up.
On August 11 2012 11:14 Jecko wrote: I'm sure if she showed up in a suit we'd all be making fun of it, since it would look weird for her to be at home in a suit like a weirdo. So this isn't at all about how "professional" she's dressed, it's about covering up her cleavage. This would entail her wearing an entirely different kind of shirt, because her boobs are big, and most of the shirts she wears would just look weird if she just pulled them up. She's already stated that in a professional setting, she'd wear a suit or w/e is necessary, so this "advice" has already been taken into consideration, not ignored as stated by Aelonus: "It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give." So now everyone should chill and stop saying shit like "I could not finish the intro sorry, and yes it was because your boobs were staring me in the face again sorry, but they were", because that's just annoying and disrespectful.
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
Wrong. I tune into Day[9]'s show to jack off.
Also, did it hurt anyone that he fixed the 2 front teeth? Because he did it to improve his physical appearance... OMG what an asshole! Now I stand no chance to ever do good in SC2, I quit!
The difference lies in the fact that Day[9] has already achieved by skill what many people aspire to achieve. That he changes his appearance AFTER he makes a name by skill. And even then it's a minimal change which you'd really notice only if you'd pay attention to it. That's the exact opposite to putting on a less revealing shirt to start off.
Obviously, if you think Day[9] became more attractive after the dailies, then you haven't seen this:
Just to add 2 ppl in caster scene that did/do a good job, not using unnatural help to get heard. (poor Sean shouldn´t be the only one in this discussion)
On August 11 2012 14:27 tonight wrote: I'm fairly certain this thread has nothing to do with casting anymore. In fact, I don't think it ever did. Next time you need to dress like Roseanne Barr and then everyone will shut the hell up.
Will not dress differently. Period. It's my wardrobe and what I am comfortable in. If a gig is hiring and paying me, they can dress me as needed, as I am transitioning to a professional setting where I am being paid to fit in as my role. I can't wait to make a button-up blouse and a sports jacket look gewd!
All in all, I got a ton of great feedback. I wish people would stop arguing (for or against) my clothing/appearance choices and realize I will never change and it's arbitrary and redundant, but other than that... I have pages of notes to refer to for my next shot! Yay!
So, thanks for all the help in here for people who were serious about the casting help! I'll check this for more if more is posted!
On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote: There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene. Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene: Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man.
Whoa, hey.
I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here:
Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder.
Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention.
Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited.
When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion.
Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
The thing about Day[9]'s enthusiasm is that it is a personality trait, not a premeditated theater performance. The thing that makes him really shine though is that he has years of experience playing StarCraft: BroodWar, and because of this, his delivery is so natural and delightful that it's fun to watch. Simply put, people not only tune into Day[9]'s show because of his fun personality but because of his insight.
Also, I'm sorry my first post was so bitchy. I was in a really bad mood that day. :\
I don't think you should apologize for being bitchy...The only problem I have with it is that it makes the female sc community look really bad, like we can't produce anyone better than a gold leaguer, and even at gold league, we have to ask for a tremendous amount of help. Just look at the past casters since BW. I feel like the main casters from BW tried to act like they knew what they were talking about, but the truth is they didn't even know the initial supply caps of each race...
I just wish that we were better represented. I remember in BW, the majority of the non koreans would say that there was no way they could ever beat a korean. Even if it was like the koreans first day to ever play BW, they would say that there is no way that they could beat the korean, because it's like they're "genetically" better than everyone else. Then guys would just say that there was no way that a girl could ever beat a guy. I remember a guy invited me to a lan party, just so I could serve drinks and snacks. He told me not to play, because the other guys would probably rather leave than see me play.
I don't think you should apologize for being bitchy...The only problem I have with it is that it makes the female sc community look really bad, like we can't produce anyone better than a gold leaguer, and even at gold league, we have to ask for a tremendous amount of help. Just look at the past casters since BW. I feel like the main casters from BW tried to act like they knew what they were talking about, but the truth is they didn't even know the initial supply caps of each race...
I just wish that we were better represented. I remember in BW, the majority of the non koreans would say that there was no way they could ever beat a korean. Even if it was like the koreans first day to ever play BW, they would say that there is no way that they could beat the korean, because it's like they're "genetically" better than everyone else. Then guys would just say that there was no way that a girl could ever beat a guy. I remember a guy invited me to a lan party, just so I could serve drinks and snacks. He told me not to play, because the other guys would probably rather leave than see me play.
You are totally right!
Another thing: There's this girl from Britain, who's in GM. But nobody really cares about her, just because she doesn't show her boobs. But Tara Babcock just need to post her first casting video and everyone loves her and she gets so much attention. Thats kind of unfair. To another girl sponsors are saying: "If we should sponsor you, be a bit like Tara. Dress like her for example". Something like this makes me sick.
I don't think you should apologize for being bitchy...The only problem I have with it is that it makes the female sc community look really bad, like we can't produce anyone better than a gold leaguer, and even at gold league, we have to ask for a tremendous amount of help. Just look at the past casters since BW. I feel like the main casters from BW tried to act like they knew what they were talking about, but the truth is they didn't even know the initial supply caps of each race...
I just wish that we were better represented. I remember in BW, the majority of the non koreans would say that there was no way they could ever beat a korean. Even if it was like the koreans first day to ever play BW, they would say that there is no way that they could beat the korean, because it's like they're "genetically" better than everyone else. Then guys would just say that there was no way that a girl could ever beat a guy. I remember a guy invited me to a lan party, just so I could serve drinks and snacks. He told me not to play, because the other guys would probably rather leave than see me play.
You are totally right!
Another thing: There's this girl from Britain, who's in GM. But nobody really cares about her, just because she doesn't show her boobs. But Tara Babcock just need to post her first casting video and everyone loves her and she gets so much attention. Thats kind of unfair. To another girl sponsors are saying: "If we should sponsor you, be a bit like Tara. Dress like her for example". Something like this makes me sick.
I don't really think there's anything wrong with the way she dresses. I just wish that she could give high level commentary. I'm not going to name names, but there was an ICCUP admin who didn't know the basics of BW. She would be picked to cast all the time, but she didn't know the supply cap, or about timing attacks, or when to build basic structures like the first pylon/depot (The first spawning pool is kind of complex, so I won't hold that one against her).
I don't really think there's anything wrong with the way she dresses. I just wish that she could give high level commentary. I'm not going to name names, but there was an ICCUP admin who didn't know the basics of BW. She would be picked to cast all the time, but she didn't know the supply cap, or about timing attacks, or when to build basic structures like the first pylon/depot (The first spawning pool is kind of complex, so I won't hold that one against her). [/QUOT
E] I don't think she's dressing wrong neither, but I just wanted to say, that it annoys me, that she's getting a lot more attention from the sc community than a really good female gamer.
I don't really think there's anything wrong with the way she dresses. I just wish that she could give high level commentary. I'm not going to name names, but there was an ICCUP admin who didn't know the basics of BW. She would be picked to cast all the time, but she didn't know the supply cap, or about timing attacks, or when to build basic structures like the first pylon/depot (The first spawning pool is kind of complex, so I won't hold that one against her). [/QUOT
E] I don't think she's dressing wrong neither, but I just wanted to say, that it annoys me, that she's getting a lot more attention from the sc community than a really good female gamer. Not going to name names, but there are guys who got the same attention as her for their personality. I really hope she gets to GM soon, and can provide some high level meta advice. The majority of SC2 will follow you if you can get to GM, while you entertain the viewers. There are GM guys who have hardly any viewers too...
Tara, I didn't think you did too badly on your cast, and I think you are going about things in a good way, like reviewing and making notes. One thing I think you should be mindful of is your laugh -- it's too, for lack of a better word, cute. And I think it conveys the nervousness you said you felt. I realize that this was your first attempt and you will have lots of things you will change as you work on this, but if that is your "real" laugh, you might want to practice a performance laugh that is less giggly. I don't know why, it is probably just me, but I could forgive all of the umm's, fillers, stumbling over terminology -- but the laugh just didn't sell it for me. It made me want to say, "nope, not gonna make it", which is horrible because I was cheering for you to do well, and in generally thought it was rather good for a first attempt. I know we can't all be Day9, but you should look to his laugh for inspiration. It is hearty; it is guttural; it makes you want to laugh too (most of the time XD). It makes you think that at least *he* really thinks the thing he's laughing at is funny.
Anyway, you seem quite prepared for a variety of comments, so hopefully this strangely nit-picky one does take you too much by surprise. But I think if you were to do that cast over with a female version of a Day9 laugh, I would say you could easily make it with practice.
GM??? Wtf is wrong with you people? You expect her to be in the top 200 players of a region before she can cast??? Have more than... 3 girls even done this? Most of the casters are not even masters!! And a lot of them are gold (Total Biscuit, DJ Wheat, Husky, etc.). The fact that someone like Tara not only plays games, but is actually better at SC2 than most girls is amazing enough, and it only encourages more female gamers to join and find out why it's such a good game.
I also think u should get someone to cast with u. It's a lot easier to have a dialogue with someone else. Since you have the personality you should try to get someone with more game knowledge. They just need to have some more game knowledge. In the recent tsl4 cast with husky and day9 husky gave play by play and day9 gave actual analysis. Created a much stronger dynamic between them. As a masters player u kind of just state the obvious which gets boring
So I actually ended up watching your cast and I felt that you spoiled the ending a little bit throughout the intro. Saying stuff that stephano made it to the round of 4 kind of foreshadowed that he was going to win anyway. Also you should get a stream overlay to block out the timer on the replay. When that roach/ling/baneling attack came there was no point in wondering if the game would end because i could see that there was still another 15 minutes to go. Your play by plays need work, and your kind of emotionless. Husky is screaming his brains out during major engagements and you were like "stephano is overpowering keen" and then blank stare as we watched it happen. Also add the ingame timer as an option for the cast. This way you can point out common timings for different races such as 16 min broodlords and stuff for pvz.
1. clear replay timer: HUGE SPOILER 2. Work on Play by play: even if you lack the analytical skills due to knowledge gap you will at least be interesting. 3. add in game timer 4. more emotion in ur speaking.
On August 13 2012 17:53 MysteryMeat1 wrote: So I actually ended up watching your cast and I felt that you spoiled the ending a little bit throughout the intro. Saying stuff that stephano made it to the round of 4 kind of foreshadowed that he was going to win anyway. Also you should get a stream overlay to block out the timer on the replay. When that roach/ling/baneling attack came there was no point in wondering if the game would end because i could see that there was still another 15 minutes to go. Your play by plays need work, and your kind of emotionless. Husky is screaming his brains out during major engagements and you were like "stephano is overpowering keen" and then blank stare as we watched it happen. Also add the ingame timer as an option for the cast. This way you can point out common timings for different races such as 16 min broodlords and stuff for pvz.
1. clear replay timer: HUGE SPOILER 2. Work on Play by play: even if you lack the analytical skills due to knowledge gap you will at least be interesting. 3. add in game timer 4. more emotion in ur speaking.
I really liked this advice because:
1. Never thought about spoiling in the beginning. I thought of it as "everyone knows this is an old game, and I am only using it to see if I can talk enough about a game," but that is a logical fallacy since I won't have the results of a tournament to talk about while casting one live, so the real-life experience on that is mute. Great point!
2. Knew I should have hid the replay timer, but I never really thought of WHY. Now it makes perfect sense! Blondes are so stupid! I though, "Oh, it's just because it looks like a replay, which is unprofessional!"
Thanks! Going to practice screaming my brains out now!
On August 13 2012 12:54 Jecko wrote: GM??? Wtf is wrong with you people? You expect her to be in the top 200 players of a region before she can cast??? Have more than... 3 girls even done this? Most of the casters are not even masters!! And a lot of them are gold (Total Biscuit, DJ Wheat, Husky, etc.). The fact that someone like Tara not only plays games, but is actually better at SC2 than most girls is amazing enough, and it only encourages more female gamers to join and find out why it's such a good game.
On August 12 2012 17:04 HypertonicHydroponic wrote: Tara, I didn't think you did too badly on your cast, and I think you are going about things in a good way, like reviewing and making notes. One thing I think you should be mindful of is your laugh -- it's too, for lack of a better word, cute. And I think it conveys the nervousness you said you felt. I realize that this was your first attempt and you will have lots of things you will change as you work on this, but if that is your "real" laugh, you might want to practice a performance laugh that is less giggly. I don't know why, it is probably just me, but I could forgive all of the umm's, fillers, stumbling over terminology -- but the laugh just didn't sell it for me. It made me want to say, "nope, not gonna make it", which is horrible because I was cheering for you to do well, and in generally thought it was rather good for a first attempt. I know we can't all be Day9, but you should look to his laugh for inspiration. It is hearty; it is guttural; it makes you want to laugh too (most of the time XD). It makes you think that at least *he* really thinks the thing he's laughing at is funny.
Anyway, you seem quite prepared for a variety of comments, so hopefully this strangely nit-picky one does take you too much by surprise. But I think if you were to do that cast over with a female version of a Day9 laugh, I would say you could easily make it with practice.
Haha, nah, opinions always help! Even the nit-picky personal preference ones! It's silly, because I have been told both perspectives about my laugh. Some say it is cute and a plus, others say its sounds ditzy and fake!
A girl version of the Day[9] laugh? I don't want to make ball all around the world shrivel...!
On August 12 2012 17:04 HypertonicHydroponic wrote: Tara, I didn't think you did too badly on your cast, and I think you are going about things in a good way, like reviewing and making notes. One thing I think you should be mindful of is your laugh -- it's too, for lack of a better word, cute. And I think it conveys the nervousness you said you felt. I realize that this was your first attempt and you will have lots of things you will change as you work on this, but if that is your "real" laugh, you might want to practice a performance laugh that is less giggly. I don't know why, it is probably just me, but I could forgive all of the umm's, fillers, stumbling over terminology -- but the laugh just didn't sell it for me. It made me want to say, "nope, not gonna make it", which is horrible because I was cheering for you to do well, and in generally thought it was rather good for a first attempt. I know we can't all be Day9, but you should look to his laugh for inspiration. It is hearty; it is guttural; it makes you want to laugh too (most of the time XD). It makes you think that at least *he* really thinks the thing he's laughing at is funny.
Anyway, you seem quite prepared for a variety of comments, so hopefully this strangely nit-picky one does take you too much by surprise. But I think if you were to do that cast over with a female version of a Day9 laugh, I would say you could easily make it with practice.
Haha, nah, opinions always help! Even the nit-picky personal preference ones! It's silly, because I have been told both perspectives about my laugh. Some say it is cute and a plus, others say its sounds ditzy and fake!
A girl version of the Day[9] laugh? I don't want to make ball all around the world shrivel...!
I don't know, I think Day9 creates a lot of nohomo (or otherwise!) nerd boners anyway... combine that with the real boners your "the girls" make and you probably have a winner. XD XD XD
On August 13 2012 12:54 Jecko wrote: GM??? Wtf is wrong with you people? You expect her to be in the top 200 players of a region before she can cast??? Have more than... 3 girls even done this? Most of the casters are not even masters!! And a lot of them are gold (Total Biscuit, DJ Wheat, Husky, etc.). The fact that someone like Tara not only plays games, but is actually better at SC2 than most girls is amazing enough, and it only encourages more female gamers to join and find out why it's such a good game.
djWHEAT is diamond and Husky is either diamond or masters (I'm pretty sure he's masters)
not that it discredits your point which is entirely valid, I just wanted to correct that.
I don't feel like writing something long, but I believe if you focused on your skills as much as you focused on your looks, you would be easily GM. Some people have a strong drive for 1 day, some for 1 week, and some for 1 month. Some people's drive is like quicksand, in which they stop eating, drinking, and sleeping, just to try to get that slight edge. They end up never reaching the top, but always believe the top is close.
When I saw you taking the notes on yourself, I was curious if you took notes about the game. People spend 100-1000s of games just practicing 5 roach rush,7 roach rush, 6 pool, but why don't you see them winning tournaments if they have the "ultimate zerg rush." I would highly recommend you to read the strategy forums, because there is so much there, that you can flood just one match up with more than enough GM knowledge to get people to watch your vids for more than just your looks.
I wish you the best of luck with SC2 and casting. Please don't embarrass us. I don't think there's ever been a good female caster.
P.S. I did like your comment about psychology and failing.
edit: Sorry for the very harshly wordered post (that you can see which was quoted right below me) and I didn't mean to be such an asshole about it. I think a better way of saying what I would like to say is, "Hey, it's ok if you dress like that, and it's your choice, and I will not judge you for it. However, not being honest (in my opinion) about why you dress that way strikes me as a cheap way out of a valid discussion about what is appropriate for casters or people in this profession to wear"
It is much easier to say you dress that way because you are more comfortable (which you could very well be), and that you don't care what other people think, instead of saying "Yea well sex sells, and exposing my breasts gets me a lot of views". (again, that is just my opinion).
I really hope you are able to improve your casting and I really wish you the best. Again I am very sorry about what I said earlier and you shouldn't let people who say stuff like that make you want to quit. There are a lot of people out there who want you to succeed. Dont give up!
As for that post (and others that I made), I asked for a self imposed ban because that really isnt acceptable to say to someone who is genuinely trying to improve. Good luck in the future!
On August 09 2012 20:46 TaraBabcock wrote: Thanks for the help, guys! Of course I do not plan to stick with solo-casting, and I realize that it is much harder, and not something someone who is purely entertaining and not heavily analytically should do. The solo practice is good, though, because I do not feel like I need the practice interacting with another person fluidly (IMO perfecting that comes with working with them often anyway) so I might as well practice the hard way for the most part. Alone! I would love to cast with others and practice and stuff, though. I am always welcome to cast the local SC2 tournament here at Gameclucks where players like Kawaiirice and other GM/M serious players compete, and I am excited to dual cast there when I feel I will not bomb it.
As for my looks, I don't care what anyone thinks. I am not going to change myself away from the way I like to be just because someone may find me less offensive or take me "seriously". If I am not so damn good that the skill is dripping from my words and you cannot help but see my passion and "worth" as a person in eSports, I might as well not even do it! I'm also a glamour model full-time. This is what we look like. Get over it. Why would I change myself so it pleases others? That is just actually doing what you are accusing me of already: changing just so people like me, or accept me.
As far as other girls coming in and "pretending" to be gamers... well a tiny bit of digging on me in particular and you'll see that is moronic to even say in regards to me. I have been gaming my whole life. I've talked about it in interviews my whole career, covered eSports and gaming events, I write gaming articles, and I own so much gaming "paraphernalia" that any real gamer would be in heaven. I may be new to eSports, but my love for gaming, persistent throughout my life is no secret.
Other than that, I agree, I need to let the passion out more, I need to be more comfortable with getting excited and, above all, I need more knowledge or the game and have the backing of a higher personal ranking in order to look serious about the game and community. I plan to keep working on it! I know you guys will see improvement soon!
Thanks for the feedback!
That is a very good question. Spending tons of money on makeup that must take ages to put on every morning, along with expensive and potentially risky surgery on your breasts and lips would be so stupid! Because hey, why would you change yourself to please others?
Reading this thread suddenly all the "failing with girls" and "forever alone" blogs make sense.
On August 14 2012 02:48 Nymphaceae wrote: I don't feel like writing something long, but I believe if you focused on your skills as much as you focused on your looks, you would be easily GM. Some people have a strong drive for 1 day, some for 1 week, and some for 1 month. Some people's drive is like quicksand, in which they stop eating, drinking, and sleeping, just to try to get that slight edge. They end up never reaching the top, but always believe the top is close.
When I saw you taking the notes on yourself, I was curious if you took notes about the game. People spend 100-1000s of games just practicing 5 roach rush,7 roach rush, 6 pool, but why don't you see them winning tournaments if they have the "ultimate zerg rush." I would highly recommend you to read the strategy forums, because there is so much there, that you can flood just one match up with more than enough GM knowledge to get people to watch your vids for more than just your looks.
I wish you the best of luck with SC2 and casting. Please don't embarrass us. I don't think there's ever been a good female caster.
P.S. I did like your comment about psychology and failing.
Aww, I find this post absolutely adorable.
I will definitely try my best, and hopefully I won't disappoint!
I agree with your comment about exploiting and practicing "cheese", haha! I've never understood why people do this just to get to PLat-Masters and hit a dead end. These same people come to my stream while I am playing economically, scouting, trying to practice viable builds and go, "I can teach you how to be Plat by next week, just PROXY RAX!" Then, they get angry when I respond, "Well, I actually wanna get good at this game and create good habits!"
On August 14 2012 08:03 Apollo_Shards wrote: edit: Sorry for the very harshly wordered post (that you can see which was quoted right below me) and I didn't mean to be such an asshole about it. I think a better way of saying what I would like to say is, "Hey, it's ok if you dress like that, and it's your choice, and I will not judge you for it. However, not being honest (in my opinion) about why you dress that way strikes me as a cheap way out of a valid discussion about what is appropriate for casters or people in this profession to wear"
It is much easier to say you dress that way because you are more comfortable (which you could very well be), and that you don't care what other people think, instead of saying "Yea well sex sells, and exposing my breasts gets me a lot of views". (again, that is just my opinion).
I really hope you are able to improve your casting and I really wish you the best. Again I am very sorry about what I said earlier and you shouldn't let people who say stuff like that make you want to quit. There are a lot of people out there who want you to succeed. Dont give up!
As for that post (and others that I made), I asked for a self imposed ban because that really isnt acceptable to say to someone who is genuinely trying to improve. Good luck in the future!
Dude... no problem. No need to apologize. I don't take anything said to heart, and I really just tire of explaining myself... in the end, it only matters that I PROVE myself and that I am happy. There will still be people who don't like me, and they can just GTFO.
Anyway, I am not denying that the extra views are nice, and that I love that sex sells, I am just stating that my primary reasoning for dressing and looking this way has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else, nor should it dilute the passion I have for gaming.
I think there was quite a bit of stream of consciousness going on. Which personally I enjoy because it shows that the caster is thinking, but most people dislike. You need to separate your speech into points/clauses/sentences/phrases better, so that when you switch topic it's obvious (I think this would be a major consensus amongst most people, but like I said for me personally it's unnecessary.)
I'm kind of on the fence here about what to say. If it was up to me all casters would talk really fast, without much structure, and non-stop to get as much information out there as soon as possible, which would of course require quite a bit of game knowledge, understanding and strategic foresight. On the other hand I think the majority of the community enjoys a more "selective" way of casting where you are still supposed to keep track of most things, but you only point out the most important aspects of the game, and just focus on improving the presentation of the cast both in terms of the audio and camera control. But then at the same time those same people end up raging at casters for missing drops and etc. So I dunno...
One thing you should probably keep in mind is that the general audience is quite fickle about what it likes, so it's probably best to first be content with the product yourself.
10 pages in with 180+ replies and only a very small percentage are useful to you, Tara. I didn't scour the thread but I'm pretty sure no one has looked at your casting in this context: Starcraft is currently incredibly oversaturated with content. I'm sure almost everyone has wanted to cast games at one point or another - Husky, Day[9], and others make it look very fun. There are a lot of no-name casters out there who can't build up an audience for a number of reasons. They don't bring enough energy to the table, they have insufficient knowledge of the game, and/or they lack personality during their casts. If you've seen any of their videos, it should be pretty apparent that from a purely Starcraft perspective that nothing really separates their casting from yours.
On August 09 2012 23:54 TaraBabcock wrote: I agree that I need the knowledge and skill to back up that personality and look. I believe both are very important in standing out in a crowd of people who play at a higher level and know a lot more about it than you.
So clearly you were already aware of most of what I just said, and I only bring it up to give you some specific advice and feedback. From the intro to the video it's pretty clear you have the personality to create a persona for casting. What I mean is, no one can really just throw themselves out into the public and hold their attention for a long period of time without amping certain things up. You could probably relate to this, and maybe something will click if it's explained this way: personality is to casting as looks are to modeling. During a photo shoot, you'll have to prepare certain things to grab someone's attention when they see the photos; a certain pose, what you're wearing, any makeup you have on, etc. But all those things amplify some unique feature of yours that was already attractive and no one else could replicate. The same thing applies to personality in a cast. Find something people generally like about you, and subtly (in a way that doesn't overshadow the content) bring it to the forefront of your public image.
While a persona is great for filling time (such as at an MLG while a game is paused or someone has hardware issues), it's really the last little icing you should add to your casting cake. Energy and knowledge are the real push and pull of a cast that your success hinges on. I would advise against trying to become the Artosis/d.Apollo type of knowledgeable caster until you've gotten to a level of play at which you can actually pull it off, because you REALLY have to know what you're talking about to hold the attention of an SC2 audience in that way. But a cool trick that Husky uses pretty often involves going into brief tangents about the particular uses of a unit or merits of a common strategy - for example, something along the lines of "Blink stalkers are very mobile and can be very successful in harassing a Terran, but their lack of firepower makes a straight up engagement impossible against bio with medivacs." This kills dead air time and for anyone splitting their attention between the game and the casting (especially casual observers and newer players), it seems like you really know your shit. As for energy and color commentary, I think a lot of people have covered that pretty well already, but you might want to watch some Tasteless or TotalBiscuit casts in addition to Mr Bitter's suggestion of Husky to improve on that.
Hopefully that was more of the constructive feedback you were looking for.
Last two advice postings are extremely helpful as well. I love that you both added something new to the table. I like to take all angles into considerations and opinions from all sides of the board.