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Click here to listen to our official statement regarding CranK joining Axiom and the recent accusations brought forth by SlayerS:
http://tindeck.com/listen/ifxl
Written copy :-
Ladies and gentlemen, my name is TotalBiscuit, sponsor and spokesperson for Axiom eSports, and I'm here to provide a statement from our team in regards to the recent Slayers drama and accusations from Jessica leveled at our player Crank. I will be providing a translated statement from Crank, which address all of the issues he wishes to discuss, after which I will provide Axiom's perspective on the whole ordeal. I apologise for the recording quality, I am currently sitting in the middle of a hotel room in Vegas, not exactly the ideal recording environment.
Okay, so this statement was translated for us, and accurately reflects the thoughts of Crank at this time on several matters, so I'm quoting this verbatim.
There are two things I wish to address and clarify. Firstly the accusation that I lied to the team about wanting to join a foreign team for money, and secondly, that I disrespected Boxer on the phone. In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2. That's why I asked to go home, and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left. But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own. Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money.
In response to the second accusation, my response is that during my last phone call with Jessica we got into a screaming match. No matter what I said, she refused to listen, saying 'no matter what you say, I will not listen to you, you are a liar who left the team.' I urged her to resolve this matter over the phone, but her mind was made up. I kept on trying to talk with her, but it was in vain. Then Boxer got on the phone. He explained that, according to him, from the perspective of the team and himself, I was the cause of all the internal issues, including the MMA, Ryung and Alicia ones. I questioned this statement. I asked him 'don't you remember all the times I said let's change things and let's work harder, why do you think I am the cause.' After I reminded him of our past conversations, he finally said that he understood where I was coming from, but from the view of the team, that's just the way it had to be. He said 'I recognise that you tried your best to change things, but there's nothing I can do from the perspective of the team. I also accept responsibility that I did wrong too, but it would have been better if you didn't leave the team on such a bad note. After all this, we can set up a separate meeting and reconcile you and Jessica.' I broke down crying due to frustration. It is true that I had very angry emotions that I couldn't hold back any more regarding Jessica, and it is wrong of me that I fought with, and screamed at, an adult. But when I was on the phone with Boxer, I did not yell. I was crying because I felt really wronged by all of this. Even if Jessica recorded the call, I wouldn't be embarrassed by any of it, even if it went out in the open. All in all, I feel like all the problems needed a scapegoat, and since I was the first one to leave the team, I became that scapegoat. I am not writing this to cause any more trouble, or to say that I did nothing wrong. I just want to clear up my name, and clarify what happened.
That concludes Crank's statement, translated into English. You can expect additional information to come out over the next couple of days in interviews conducted in Korean.
Axiom eSports does not currently represent the interests of MMA, ergo we will not be discussing his situation at this time. Now, let me talk about things from Axiom's perspective. So, Axiom entered into a contract with Crank after we had established a relationship of trust. That relationship hasn't changed. We are not learning anything new that we did not already know prior to signing Crank to the team. Crank has our complete and total support, and unwavering trust at this time. Axiom understand his motivations and the actions he took involving Slayers, Jessica and Boxer, and believes he took the correct action, given the circumstances. We also believe that motivation is key to any professional gamer, and it's not surprising that he felt he did not want to carry on due to the situation with Slayers. When we brought Crank to MLG we did not bring a broken, disheartened player to a tournament. We brought a player with a renewed will to fight, an enthusiasm rekindled by community support, and a consummate professional who had rediscovered his passion for Starcraft. Differents player thrive in different environments, and each has individual needs. We hope to be able to support Crank and ensure his continuing success. Axiom is about, more than anything, new beginnings for its members, a blank sheet upon which they can write a new chapter in their career, secure in the knowledge that they are on a team that has their back one hundred percent of the time and will be in their corner when they need us the most. We do not throw our players under the bus. We trust our players, just as they trust us, and we will not be taking any action against Crank because we do not believe he did anything wrong to begin with. Axiom has nothing but respect for Boxer, Jessica, and the achievements of Slayers, but, nobody is perfect. Mistakes were made on all sides, and we only hope to learn from those errors to create a better environment for our players so we may one day hope to equal the achievements of Slayers and other Korean teams. The reality of the situation is that when you own an eSports team you have a certain amount of responsibility. If you are involved in the staff, if you are involved in the management or ownership of the team in any way, then responsibility for the problems, failures, and of course successes of the team lie upon your shoulders. This is the case with every team, whether it be a foreign team or a Korean team. It is my opinion, as a representative of Axiom, that when looking at the reasons for failure, one should always start at the top, not at the bottom. There appears to be a great deal of blame being placed upon the players, and yet no questions are being asked as to why a professionally owned and operated team imploded so completely. It is very easy to blame the ESF situation for the downfall of Slayers, and there is no question that coach Won was in the wrong in instigating this particular incident, not to mention the fact that he himself accepted responsibility, and resigned from his position as head of the ESF. However, it was not merely this external factor that caused the collapse of the team, and I hope that we will find out more about the situation as more investigation is done. I find it very hard to believe that even if all the accusations towards the players were true, that a handful of players could bring down such a large and successful team on their own, and that the team management was not capable of doing anything to stop it. My name has been TotalBiscuit, thank you for listening.
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totalbiscuit is sexy and i love him. that is all.
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Totalbiscuit is a sexy beast.
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Thank you for doing this. Really clears up the whole situation, at least from Crank's perspective.
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I look forward to seeing if there's any response to this. O_O
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Thanks for the statement TB. Plausible answers from Crank (and I believe them to be true), and blame where it should be on Slayers' fall.
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Handled professionally. Great job TB.
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Any chance of a written statement or summary from anyone?
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I am glad that Crank found a team. Jessica is dramatic and she seem to blame everyone but herself for the all the problems. I agree the ESF played a part in it along with Manager J but I hate how Jessica is attacking the players. She thinks everyone plotting against her but don't realize that people are leaving because of her nasty attitude and how she deals with thing. I hope everyone in Slayers find a team and not be brought down by all of this drama.
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You sound sexy but unfortunately I barely understand what you said
Is there no written statement?
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Love the clarity. TB you are a sexy beast.
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Poor Crank I never really followed him but he sounds so sad
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Thanks for putting this out there, and with your amazing voice! =D I hope more gets cleared up over the next couple of days so we can safely ''put the blame'' on certain ends and start hoping for the players to get a good team.
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After much contemplation, I've changed my matter and stance. Sometimes in life we go through situations where life deals us a set of cards that are unwinnable. What he said to Boxer is something only someone who simply broke down who gave up his future life in anything else did for a chance in progaming. Yes, what he said was something that never should have been said, but these words were the words of someone who broke down mentally from all the hardship.
Crank's already suffered enough, without western esport supporters to add more fuel to the fire. Chances are no matter what occurs, koreans are going to look at this negatively, but we as western viewers are in a position to see outside the hypocrisy of the situation. ESF bullied Team Slayers (regardless of whether it was slayers fault), now Jessica and Co are bullying Crank (regardless of whether it was Crank's fault). There's no need for all this online bullying, especially when it's one young man's entire life at stake here.
At this point in time the damage has been done, but it doesn't need to go any further. In the words of Mahatma Gandhi, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
I'll support Axiom and Crank. TB if you can pass on a message to him, please tell him that what separates champions and losers is the fact that champions learn from their mistakes and overcome hardships others fail to overcome. Hope he can start a new chapter in his career after all this.
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On October 21 2012 20:37 Shana wrote:You sound sexy but unfortunately I barely understand what you said Is there no written statement? Well he's quoting it verbatim so I'm sure he has a written version.
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Wow .. great job TB ! and i feel a lil bit sad for Crank .... From now on he has my Support !! GOGO CRANK!!!
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And Total Biscuit, you might wanna think twice if you decide to respond to this, let's be honest, Jessica has been a walking drama machine ever since she joined the slayers team. Don't let her troll you TB! Leave her alone and don't respond to it.
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Courtesy of Sandvicerate on Reddit.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my name is TotalBiscuit, sponsor and spokesperson for Axiom eSports, and I'm here to provide a statement from our team in regards to the recent Slayers drama and accusations from Jessica leveled at our player Crank. I will be providing a translated statement from Crank, which address all of the issues he wishes to discuss, after which I will provide Axiom's perspective on the whole ordeal. I apologise for the recording quality, I am currently sitting in the middle of a hotel room in Vegas, not exactly the ideal recording environment.
Okay, so this statement was translated for us, and accurately reflects the thoughts of Crank at this time on several matters, so I'm quoting this verbatim.
There are two things I wish to address and clarify. Firstly the accusation that I lied to the team about wanting to join a foreign team for money, and secondly, that I disrespected Boxer on the phone. In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2. That's why I asked to go home, and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left. But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own. Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money."
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I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process.
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Not realy a good statement.
It focuses alot on getting sympathy for Crack by mentioning several times he was crying and how bad he had it after he went home and dident make money.
All this statement is trying to do it make Crack look like a good guy who dident do anything wrong but all the others did the misstakes. Yet its shows no evidence for that and will just end up being his words against hers.
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this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
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Totalbiscuit gentleman and a scholar™
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On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Starcraft cold war is heating up
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It's a risky path to put that much trust in a player just from their word.
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On October 21 2012 19:14 Endymion wrote: totalbiscuit is sexy and i love him. that is all.
On October 21 2012 19:27 goswser wrote: Totalbiscuit is a sexy beast.
This so much. *_*
I was quite surprised at first to read that CranK would disrespect BoxeR like that, that he would lash out against the man who almost single-handedly built and consolidated the Brood War pro-scene and by extension the StarCraft 2 pro-scene. But looking at things through his perspective, that of "someone who simply broke down" as a previous poster put it, I can kind of understand where he's coming from. As such, I will continue to support Axiom, CranK, Ryung and hopefully your future players as well, depending on who they might be.
As for MMA, I was really sad to see his attitude. He was the chosen one, the would-have-been SC2 equivalent to oov. I have to say I lost my respect for both him and Alicia, although I won't be quick to dismiss their respective statements whenever they do end up coming out.
The thing with this mess is that there is no single person entirely at fault, nor is there anyone entirely innocent (I'm looking at *you*, Jessica ~_~) That's what makes it so complicated. Hopefully it won't keep escalating and the damage done won't be critical.
All that aside, I'll keep supporting Cynical Brit and Axiom.
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Looks like Mr and Mrs Biscuit are stuck in the middle of a good ol' K-drama.
Have fun guys
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On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. I didn't have any problems with this being an audio recording statement myself, but I see your point, maybe transcript to accompany it would've been nice. However, I disagree with your second point. TB's role here is not to be a detective and investigate the SlayerS drama and it's not to try and absolve Crank from any accusations, it's to clarify Axiom's position and stance on Crank's contract with the team, which he did superbly. Whether or not Axiom thinks Crank's statement is satisfactory is up to them. Even though they employ a former SlayerS player, Axiom has no obligation to get involved in the drama surrounding SlayerS disbanding and to be honest I think they made the right decision.
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i dont give a shit about any of the slayers drama , nor who is at fault
Just glad everything is fine with Axiom and Crank, I look forward to seeing him in the next MLG.
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Why an audio recording???? I've never seen anyone release a statement like this. Really strange to be honest.
It doesn't seem to clarify a whole lot though for something that took quite a while. A bit of he said/she said then sympathy for why he did whatever was so terrible(leaving the team for axiom)
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Jessica is always holding better cards than she lets out to be. She uses them to blackmail her players into silence. The truth is shes going to let it all the information out in the end anyway, so submitting to her threats isn't going to do Crank and Co any good.
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I like crank's statement but the comments done by TB, representative of axiom, at the end was not so classy and is not respective. Why would you attack someone who had misfortune?
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Thanks for another point of view.
Jessica definitely is no saint and did mistakes too, although i haven't seen her saying she has done anything wrong at all.
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On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote:+ Show Spoiler + I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process.
Transcript and thoughts below:
Transcript "Firstly the accusation that I lied to the team about wanting to join a foreign team for money"
Transcript "In refuting the first accusation I want to explain I felt for a while that Jessica, Boxer and coach Cella were not taking proper care of the team, in terms of motivation, practice routines, house atmosphere, etcetera. For many months I requested that we receive better care from the management, and although they always said they would, nothing seemed to change. Boxer came to the house to be with us, but still nothing changed. Instead of providing the support that the team needed, Boxer often sat around and did other things that were not in relation to us. His focus was not on the team, or Starcraft 2. That's why I asked to go home, and leave the team, because nothing seemed to change for the better. Regarding this, I've talked to Boxer about it privately, and Boxer said, in that conversation, that he admits, and recognises, his fault. I made it a point to tell him that it was not about the money, or about going to a better team, because I did not want any misunderstandings when I left."
Comment Ok, so first of all let me say that "etcetera" doesn't add anything to this statement. Either leave it out, or say what is included in the etcetera, there's no way for us to know what is included or isn't.
Secondly, he asks for better care from the management and accuses Boxer not taking care enough of them. Now, I sincerely doubt the accusation because Boxer spend lots of his personal savings into the team. I think it's quite a statement to make to someone that spends the kind of money as he did on keeping the team afloat and not taking care of you. Maybe he didn't take personal care for you as much as you would've liked, he sure as hell showed it in the money spend. Because of the money spend the living standards that you enjoyed, far outweighed the other Korean teams. But to come to my point I'm trying to make, as to why Crank used faulty logic. He states it wasn't about joining a better team, while going home, and without a team, sure as hell doesn't make your job as a progamer any easier. So either he was looking to quit (Which is unlikely because as he said he leaves because nothing changed for the better, nothing on his motivation), or he DID want to join a better team.
Transcript "But Jessica continually would not recognise her own mistakes, and made me out to be the bad guy who abandoned the team to survive on his own."
Comment Err, she made you out to be the bad guy because you LIED about it, not because you left the team.
Transcript "Once I left the team , and went back home, I realised how alone I was. I had no team, and was only a Code B player with nothing to brag about. On top of that, I was an old, Korean age 24, player living at home. As a man who has already finished his military service, I could not ask my family for much monetary support. It was a humbling challenge for me to be back there. Because of this, I started streaming, but since my career wasn't that great I only made about one hundred and fifty to two hundred thousand wan a month, which is about the equivalent of one hundred and forty to one hundred and eighty five dollars. That is what prompted me to look for a team that could provide me with a good gaming environment so that I could better myself. It was never my intention to search for a team with lots of money."
Comment Oh, come on. You must seriously have had a hit to the head to not see that situation before leaving Slayers. Either way, let's say he actually was that ignorant, it also shows that he had no gratitude to the support that Slayers has given him during his stay. They supported his (nearly) every need, be it a room, food, water, pc, transport, etc. He just admitted to noticing it AFTER leaving the team, or his statement is a lie.
And I'm afraid that's even without really trying to find faults in the statement, or comparing it to previous statements on leaving Slayers by Crank. I'd probably be able to find more glaring differences if I did compare. Either way, I'm disappointed in Crank and TotalBisquit to leave it at a statement without any evidence. Where are the chatlogs and such you alluded to?
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I thought slayers disbanded, why is whatever she has to say important? Boxer friggin left slayers, i mean, c'mon when the captain abandons ship you know it is all bad.
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I thought we got rid of Jessica when Slayers disbanded? Will she ever shut up?
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On October 21 2012 22:26 Rebel_lion wrote: I thought slayers disbanded, why is whatever she has to say important? Boxer friggin left slayers, i mean, c'mon when the captain abandons ship you know it is all bad.
Because if what she says is true, the organizations and players aren't what we make them out to be. If we allow these practices to go unpunished as a community, we can be sure it happens again and again and won't allow eSports to grow healthy, large and honest.
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I do think wrongdoings have been made on all sides, but I find it incredibly frustrating that Jessica still refuses to accept any blame, and I loath her attitude of "I love you all so much, I worked so hard, how can it be my fault?"
And then there's the fact that this all exploded at once, MONTHS after the incidents happened, and way too late to save Slayers. What the hell? FXOBoss ranted about this and I completely agree with him: if there's shit going on, don't just fucking sit on it and pretend things are okay, then only later become a drama queen and take revenge (?) on the scene that betrayed her.
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all the misogyny cards in the world wouldn't save jessica.
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On October 21 2012 22:45 gregnog wrote: all the misogyny cards in the world wouldn't save jessica.
How so? The fire is burning quite close to TotalBisquit and Crank at the moment. Especially so if she releases the audio tape.
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On October 21 2012 22:52 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:45 gregnog wrote: all the misogyny cards in the world wouldn't save jessica. How so? The fire is burning quite close to TotalBisquit and Crank at the moment. Especially so if she releases the audio tape.
Crank did say that he wouldn't mind if the tape was released, so AFAIK there's nothing stopping her from releasing it.
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On October 21 2012 22:59 lbmaian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:52 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 22:45 gregnog wrote: all the misogyny cards in the world wouldn't save jessica. How so? The fire is burning quite close to TotalBisquit and Crank at the moment. Especially so if she releases the audio tape. Crank did say that he wouldn't mind if the tape was released, so AFAIK there's nothing stopping her from releasing it.
Exactly.
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I wonder how many out there like me would love to read the full translation of the 1 hr recording jessica has. I believe the truth will be revealed. I support TB but we'll have to wait and see for this since I don't see any supporting evidence just hearsay in these prior statements.. was kind of hoping for specifics in the Crank statement.
I believe this won't be good for Axiom in the long run. This much controversy after just one month of picking up a player must be difficult for Axiom, Its a shame. I know Axiom is trying hard with the formation of the team.
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I hope now that Axiom has given Crank the chance to explain himself and given their backing to him they can now distance themselves from all of this and focus on business. I'm so disillusioned by all the nonsense that is going on and hope that Axiom will act like a professional business organisation and not engage in the Korean soap star's own game of turning her own failed business into a drama. All she has left is to protect her own reputation and that of Boxer. At the end of the day it was their responsibility as management to keep the team running but they did not react to the changing environment.
What else could you expect from an Esports legend who admitted that all he knows is Starcraft and an actress. They got put in a shitty situation and didn't have the management expertise to get out.
P.S. Boxer is my hero and I wish he would continue playing.
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Really good statement, should set some sort of standard
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On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard
Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements.
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Crank makes a decent point: for these guys, they can't not look for another team, gaming is their only source of livelihood.
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On October 21 2012 23:22 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements. What's with you and your written statements. Many businesses hold public press conferences and it's up to the journalists to transcribe what they believe is pertinent. There is nothing wrong with a verbal statement especially when the reader can speak in an engaging manner which can give a greater understanding to the listener in hearing their tone and emotion.
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You stand by your words and defended Crank.
/nod of approval
Edit : The Axiom point of view may actually be better than Crank's statement. I wasn't a believer of your initiative but you scored points in my book.
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On October 21 2012 23:33 jworld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:22 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements. What's with you and your written statements. Many businesses hold public press conferences and it's up to the journalists to transcribe what they believe is pertinent. There is nothing wrong with a verbal statement especially when the reader can speak in an engaging manner which can give a greater understanding to the listener in hearing their tone and emotion.
Haha, no, actually they release a written copy of that which they say during the press conference aswell. Only if it's for example a short-notice announcement in case of, for example, a disaster they may not have a written copy to release.
Why journalists write during a press conference is so they can ask questions, and to write down the answers to those questions.
Besides, he has the written version, as he's reading verbatim, so it's a simple matter of releasing it.
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You're a classy son of a gun, TB. Thanks for this.
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On October 21 2012 23:22 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements. But then you wouldn't get to hear that very persuasive British voice, they are only maximising their approval ratings.
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On October 21 2012 23:53 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:22 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements. But then you wouldn't get to hear that very persuasive British voice, they are only maximising their approval ratings.
Point taken
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team.
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On October 21 2012 23:40 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:33 jworld wrote:On October 21 2012 23:22 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements. What's with you and your written statements. Many businesses hold public press conferences and it's up to the journalists to transcribe what they believe is pertinent. There is nothing wrong with a verbal statement especially when the reader can speak in an engaging manner which can give a greater understanding to the listener in hearing their tone and emotion. Haha, no, actually they release a written copy of that which they say during the press conference aswell. Only if it's for example a short-notice announcement in case of, for example, a disaster they may not have a written copy to release. Why journalists write during a press conference is so they can ask questions, and to write down the answers to those questions. Besides, he has the written version, as he's reading verbatim, so it's a simple matter of releasing it. Sorry but as a member of the public I have never been privy to a written statement before the statement has been given or immediately after. How about we give them some slack on the case of them not being a publicly listed company.
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Tbh the part about CranK only realising how little he has that made him look for a foreign team just made him seem pretty short sighted. Least he could've done was to clear the air with a follow up to SlayerS before advertising himself as available no?
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On October 21 2012 23:55 Spooony wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team.
Sure: Don't see how it makes her opinion irrelevant.
On October 21 2012 23:55 jworld wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:40 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:33 jworld wrote:On October 21 2012 23:22 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:18 GoonFFS wrote: Really good statement, should set some sort of standard Without a written statement alongside it? That's how professional businesses bring out their statements. What's with you and your written statements. Many businesses hold public press conferences and it's up to the journalists to transcribe what they believe is pertinent. There is nothing wrong with a verbal statement especially when the reader can speak in an engaging manner which can give a greater understanding to the listener in hearing their tone and emotion. Haha, no, actually they release a written copy of that which they say during the press conference aswell. Only if it's for example a short-notice announcement in case of, for example, a disaster they may not have a written copy to release. Why journalists write during a press conference is so they can ask questions, and to write down the answers to those questions. Besides, he has the written version, as he's reading verbatim, so it's a simple matter of releasing it. Sorry but as a member of the public I have never been privy to a written statement before the statement has been given or immediately after. How about we give them some slack on the case of them not being a publicly listed company.
Obviously not before, I didn't even allude to that. And no, if they can release an audio statement, which takes both more time and effort to create, I sure won't give them some slack on not releasing an already in his hands written statement of Crank.
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On October 22 2012 00:00 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 23:55 Spooony wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team. Sure: Don't see how it makes her opinion irrelevant. Well, maybe not totally irrelevant.... but as irrelevant as mine or yours.
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On October 22 2012 00:04 Spooony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:00 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:55 Spooony wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team. Sure: Don't see how it makes her opinion irrelevant. Well, maybe not totally irrelevant.... but as irrelevant as mine or yours.
I still don't see how they're as irrelevant as yours or mine? She has first hand knowledge, we don't. Doesn't that make it automatically more relevant?
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On October 22 2012 00:07 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:04 Spooony wrote:On October 22 2012 00:00 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:55 Spooony wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team. Sure: Don't see how it makes her opinion irrelevant. Well, maybe not totally irrelevant.... but as irrelevant as mine or yours. I still don't see how they're as irrelevant as yours or mine? She has first hand knowledge, we don't. Doesn't that make it automatically more relevant? Her first hand knowledge makes her extremely biased and jaded. So no.
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On October 22 2012 00:09 Spooony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:07 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:04 Spooony wrote:On October 22 2012 00:00 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:55 Spooony wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team. Sure: Don't see how it makes her opinion irrelevant. Well, maybe not totally irrelevant.... but as irrelevant as mine or yours. I still don't see how they're as irrelevant as yours or mine? She has first hand knowledge, we don't. Doesn't that make it automatically more relevant? Her first hand knowledge makes her extremely biased and jaded. So no. By that logic so is Crank's.
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On October 22 2012 00:11 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:09 Spooony wrote:On October 22 2012 00:07 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 00:04 Spooony wrote:On October 22 2012 00:00 Shival wrote:On October 21 2012 23:55 Spooony wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jessica's opinion on anything is irrelevant now. Her team is gone. She's just a bitter ex-manager of a Starcraft team. Sure: Don't see how it makes her opinion irrelevant. Well, maybe not totally irrelevant.... but as irrelevant as mine or yours. I still don't see how they're as irrelevant as yours or mine? She has first hand knowledge, we don't. Doesn't that make it automatically more relevant? Her first hand knowledge makes her extremely biased and jaded. So no. By that logic so is Crank's.
What he said. I'd like to add that even if it's biased and jaded, that's still better than second hand knowledge from those very same sources and forming your opinion.
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Take Crank and Axiom's statement with a pinch of salt... but ignore Jessica's response, because she's nothing anymore.
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To be honest. This almost rather confirms Jessica's side rather than disagreeing with it.
From my perspective it seems crank made a few mistakes in how to communicate with SlayerS. if he had just been honest with her from day 1 and told her he wants to leave the team and stream etc. She would say yes, like she had done with Taeja, Ganzi, Sleep, and many other former SlayerS players, She had even gone so far as to help other SlayerS players find a new team (Clide and KT).
I think if he was honest with her, things would have been different, but he wasn't. He wanted to make money, although not a competely horrible thing, he didn't communicate with people and burned bridges instead of keeping them up.
I think this makes Crank look really bad when it comes to business and makes him not very smart in hoiw he deals with people.
If people have to look at this and disagree with Jessica based on this alone, then thats rather crazy since Crank confirms a lot of what Jessica is saying.
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An adult? When you act like that.
The way Jessica handles herself. No.
At least you guys have both sides of the story but in reality this should have never really been public to begin with.
I can see where both sides are coming from but you have to take responsibility for what you do.
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On October 22 2012 00:15 Spooony wrote: Take Crank and Axiom's statement with a pinch of salt... but ignore Jessica's response, because she's nothing anymore. Well that's just crazy. So if anybody outside the world of SC2 accused anyone in SC2 of something you would just ignore it?
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On October 22 2012 00:15 Spooony wrote: Take Crank and Axiom's statement with a pinch of salt... but ignore Jessica's response, because she's nothing anymore.
That's as illogical as it can get.
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Wow, thanks that cleared up absolutely nothing.
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TB's voice is just so damn nice, I could literally listen to it all day long.
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tbh since all the parties she wants to sue doesn't have any hard evidence, she is likely to win all cases..
But it's scary to know that Jessica seems to record every conversation, voice chat, text messages ever to exist that involves her.
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United States32419 Posts
written written written written
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On October 22 2012 00:34 FidoDido wrote: tbh since all the parties she wants to sue doesn't have any hard evidence, she is likely to win all cases..
But it's scary to know that Jessica seems to record every conversation, voice chat, text messages ever to exist that involves her. Given that she's in the entertainment biz I'm not surprised if she got used to such things, since public figures have to deal with more instances of harassment and the like.
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On October 22 2012 00:34 FidoDido wrote: tbh since all the parties she wants to sue doesn't have any hard evidence, she is likely to win all cases..
But it's scary to know that Jessica seems to record every conversation, voice chat, text messages ever to exist that involves her.
Proper business really.
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I'm curious what kind his practice routines, house atmosphere and motivational support are now. Anyway, this statement, at best, explains his rationale for wanting to leave. It doesn't refute anything and it's a bit disappointing that it quite needlessly attacks Boxer. Crank chastises Jessica for "not admitting here mistakes", but as far as I can see Crank doesn't recognize any made by himself and given where we are now I think it's unlikely that his own conduct has been flawless. Having said that, the drama, at least as far as it involves Crank, is unnecessary and pointless.
e: also this statement is a bit dubious "We are not learning anything new that we did not already know prior to signing Crank to the team. "
e2: I'm wrong and Crank does recognize some mistakes, I was going by an incomplete transcript
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Am I the only one that really doesn't care about this and just wants to watch CranK play more amazing games?
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On October 22 2012 00:16 masterbreti wrote: To be honest. This almost rather confirms Jessica's side rather than disagreeing with it.
From my perspective it seems crank made a few mistakes in how to communicate with SlayerS. if he had just been honest with her from day 1 and told her he wants to leave the team and stream etc. She would say yes, like she had done with Taeja, Ganzi, Sleep, and many other former SlayerS players, She had even gone so far as to help other SlayerS players find a new team (Clide and KT).
I think if he was honest with her, things would have been different, but he wasn't. He wanted to make money, although not a competely horrible thing, he didn't communicate with people and burned bridges instead of keeping them up.
I think this makes Crank look really bad when it comes to business and makes him not very smart in hoiw he deals with people.
If people have to look at this and disagree with Jessica based on this alone, then thats rather crazy since Crank confirms a lot of what Jessica is saying.
TB did address taking responsibility from the top up and this is true. You are responsible for those underneath you.
People yell when they get discouraged or believe they're not being heard.
When Jessica and BoxeR polarize Crank and use him as the scapegoat because he was the one who was persistent about getting the team on the right track and that's exactly what they said. Because they had to for the good of the team. That's wrong in itself. if I were frustrated, I would certainly give them a piece of mind too.
People do shout. The thing he was apologizing for was shouting.
At least you got the miscommunication angle down. There was definitely a disconnect from when he left and what his motives were when joining another team. This happens when you become emotionally charged at the situation and that's when you need to take the backseat because the lines become blurred. You have to be able to look at the situation from a distance.
You guys have comments from 3 sides of the situation. I'm sure there will be many more.
I think it's for the best that Jessica moves aside and gets going on her acting career again. This line of business just doesn't suit her.
As for the players and associations,
I can understand their frustration and it's important to communicate any issues you may have with your managers as soon as they materialize under a calm demeanor.
If they raise their tone with you. Don't raise back. Everyone feeds off the energy that you give off. If you remain very relaxed it will help keep them relaxed. Not to say their voice won't be harsh, but if you keep it up and pay attention to your body language those levels could drop off.
The associations should take a firm stance on their policies.
I'm well aware Jessica already paid for the plane tickets and hotels before she got notice from the Fed and as a result there was no time for cancellation. The other teams weren't to appreciative of the fact so they scolded SlayerS by not allowing SlayerS to practice with players on the Federation teams. Notice how I didn't say other as SlayerS couldn't come to terms of joining. They were already on the outside looking in. It looks bad on the Federation because they didn't have any policy against practice regimes prior when in reality there should be a lot of policies and regulations put into practice from the jump.
How do I see this? Practice resources aren't a right; they are a privilege. Teams! Your players are your assets.
When you look at it from this lens the Federation has all sorts of assets when it comes to practice partners. If anything, this should help provide more incentive to join the association and likewise they should be protected. Jessica and BoxeR didn't like the terms and likewise time and time again we've seen just how young this association is when it comes to dealing penalties and conducting policy for players and teams alike. If anything this should be a marketing ploy to get other teams in on the deal, but time and time again the Federation shows lack of unity.
If they cannot be accountable or uphold their decisions why join? Touche.
From what we've heard. To this day the Federation's communications with one another stinks. It almost sounds like there isn't an executive board as the other guy stepped down right away. Makes me think everyone wasn't necessarily in agreement when it came to the non-compete/strong-arming even though it's a stance I would take or the other executives didn't know what was going on so a few of them asked for him to resign. That's the best answer for a resignation and the only possible answer I can come up with. Otherwise, if the other executives did know what was up then you should take a firm stance on the issue and set it as policy. There is no point having someone as the head. Instead, they should act more like a board and have someone be their spokesperson.
I certainly wouldn't want everyone to have free access to my assets and resources for precision practice. If a player came up to me and said, "Hey this guy is very good at so-and-so but he isn't apart of the association. Is it okay if I practice with him?"
I'd bring it up at the next meeting between the teams and try to make a policy. Whether it be like a similar system to BW where you have practice partners or after hours practice. In either case every team in the association has to have a pulse on what's going on with every other team. Why else have a Federation if you aren't an advocate for policy, regulations and benefits for your players? Move forward; not backwards or else what is the point of the association?
Just to say, "You aren't going to bully us KeSPA!"
Yeah, right.
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Very professionally handled TB, You do make quite a good manager in my opinion
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On October 22 2012 00:49 Korben wrote: Am I the only one that really doesn't care about this and just wants to watch CranK play more amazing games?
This, mostly
There are currently a lot of people with pitchforks running around, any public person can't do anything anymore without risking getting some fork-shaped holes in his body. Wouldn't the world be a better place if we could all just agree on everyone making mistakes and that bad stuff happens so we should work on not repeating mistakes instead of throwing blame?
On October 22 2012 00:52 BackTrack wrote: Very professionally handled TB, You do make quite a good manager in my opinion
He's just the spokesperson. The manager is his wife Genna aka Intricacy. Why does everyone get this wrong?
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On October 22 2012 00:34 FidoDido wrote: tbh since all the parties she wants to sue doesn't have any hard evidence, she is likely to win all cases..
But it's scary to know that Jessica seems to record every conversation, voice chat, text messages ever to exist that involves her.
She's a control freak and she wouldn't win anything at all. The expenses for hiring a lawyer to even take this to court is a joke. She would receive no compensation and that's one of the reasons why. Hey, well we're disbanding the team so why not make it public so people can go nuts.
It's doesn't paint a pretty picture. She's getting out of the business so why not and let everyone else deal with it.
It's pretty selfish. Yes, we've seen her throw around lawsuits left and right like it's no thing, but at the end of the day.
Come on, come on now.
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I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players)
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On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded.
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On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote: I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) Without picking a side anyone could tell that stuff was not good in Slayers at a certain point. Even before they had to bench MMA and such there were things that looked bad for them.
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I just gotta say it seemed to me like at a moment CranK was saying he wasn't looking for a team for their money, and afterwards he says that he is, indeed, doing such a thing. I can understand him needing money, so there's no need to try and hide that. As for the decision to leave the clan with nothing to fall back on, i think this might just have been visceral (some kind of a ragequit, although that term is a bit despective within the community), i know i've made poor decisions because my emotions have gotten the best out of me.
All in all, i'd just like CranK to be a bit more calmed down, and make sure he's relaxed and in a pleasurable ambience before doing any more statements. Emotion-driven words are the cause of all this drama (cfr. Jessica).
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On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote: I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players)
On the topic of Manager J. I wouldn't flat-out call something the main reason.
I would look for the starting point of where it went south and the embezzling of money Manager J is a pretty good starting point if you ask me. Let alone the hiring. Some people are too trustworthy and in many cases they shouldn't be hiring anyone. There's a reason why recruitment firms/head hunter business has been booming for the last thirty years. It's because HR doesn't get the job done. My Mom's always joked about people in HR and how they can never make good head hunters. For reference she's been in the business for well over forty years as a president from everything from Hays Personnel, Saber Consulting, Design Group, CNC, etc.
Unfortunately we're talking about small businesses (I even have a hard time calling them that). If it's not KeSPA in many cases it's completely entrepreneurial with only a few exceptions like FXO.
You really need to have a firm pulse on your team and good thing Genna isn't looking to hire anyone soon. You do need to be a control freak when it's your own business.
Jessica has some qualities of what I would call a good manager (she's passionate and she's a control freak) but not all. Anyway, I'm going to call the guy in question simply J because he simply doesn't deserve to be called a manager, which is almost ironic. The guy should have never been apart of the team in the first place. The lines of communication and player mistrust really started to breakdown with him. This doesn't mean he was the main reason however as there were many moving pieces to the puzzle that made this blow up. It's only a starting point.
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Out of curiosity, why do we have player names but not Manager J's name?
This statement seems to fall in line with what we already know about jessica.
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Hong Kong9135 Posts
why isn't this written down
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At first I was going to bitch about the terrible format, then it was an audio recording. Great job on getting this out to us, and the best of luck to you, crank and axiom as a whole.
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On October 22 2012 01:30 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote: I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) On the topic of Manager J. I wouldn't flat-out call something the main reason. I would look for the starting point of where it went south and the embezzling of money Manager J is a pretty good starting point if you ask me. Let alone the hiring. Some people are too trustworthy and in many cases they shouldn't be hiring anyone. There's a reason why recruitment firms/head hunter business has been booming for the last thirty years. It's because HR doesn't get the job done. My Mom's always joked about people in HR and how they can never make good head hunters. For reference she's been in the business for well over forty years as a president from everything from Hays Personnel, Saber Consulting, Design Group, CNC, etc. Unfortunately we're talking about small businesses (I even have a hard time calling them that). If it's not KeSPA in many cases it's completely entrepreneurial with only a few exceptions like FXO. You really need to have a firm pulse on your team and good thing Genna isn't looking to hire anyone soon. You do need to be a control freak when it's your own business. Jessica has some qualities of what I would call a good manager (she's passionate and she's a control freak) but not all. Anyway, I'm going to call the guy in question simply J because he simply doesn't deserve to be called a manager, which is almost ironic. The guy should have never been apart of the team in the first place. The lines of communication and player mistrust really started to breakdown with him. This doesn't mean he was the main reason however as there were many moving pieces to the puzzle that made this blow up. It's only a starting point.
But isnt that exactly what qualifies it as the main reason? There were many other reasons of course but they were not as consequential as this one. Either way its a technicality of wording. I think we're both saying the same thing. There has been alot of discussion about whether or not Jessica was correct to hire manager J. Personally I think that hiring a person you have only known for 3 months to handle negotiations with sponsors is a bit naive especially when that person had only previously been doing minor tasks like managing the facebook team page. Still, I don't know what kind of relationship they had. Maybe they developed a good rapport with one another and he did his jobs well so Jessica decided to give him a chance. It's hard to lay fault at Jessica's feet for hiring an untrustworthy person when she had reason to think otherwise (if everyone played it as safe as me, there'd be nothing like hitch hiking in this world).
Off topic, can your mum find me a job lol. Damn near impossible for a engineering grad to find entry level position work these days =[
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Totalbiscuit you tweeted that the burden of proof is on the accuser, but Crank makes and has made accusations of his own. Indeed, that's basically the whole statement
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Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind.
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No bias here either right?
I wish both sides would actually own up for once. Equally.
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TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning.
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SoCal, USA3955 Posts
On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning.
And TSL is still around.
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One thing I do not understand in all of this. Why people still trust Jessica at her word? She provided several situations during last year and half that makes her word suspicious. Just wait for the rest of the drama to blow over and check again.
Statement from Axiom is great. Statement from Crank (Provided by Axiom/TB) is terrible. I do not want to read a bundle of tears. I expect TB to help him edit it from a PR perspective. But still good thing they made it.
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On October 22 2012 00:55 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:34 FidoDido wrote: tbh since all the parties she wants to sue doesn't have any hard evidence, she is likely to win all cases..
But it's scary to know that Jessica seems to record every conversation, voice chat, text messages ever to exist that involves her. She's a control freak and she wouldn't win anything at all. The expenses for hiring a lawyer to even take this to court is a joke. She would receive no compensation and that's one of the reasons why. Hey, well we're disbanding the team so why not make it public so people can go nuts. It's doesn't paint a pretty picture. She's getting out of the business so why not and let everyone else deal with it. It's pretty selfish. Yes, we've seen her throw around lawsuits left and right like it's no thing, but at the end of the day. Come on, come on now.
Pretty sure she was sick and tired of everyone on tl and reddit blaming everything that happened to slayers on her. While that was far from the truth.
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On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around. Because they immediately took action. Glad they did, i'm positive SlayerS could still be around either if they would have complained more (and if that didn't help then publicize it, the community has a lot of power). That is, if the bullying of SlayerS truely was the main reason of all the problems and if it existed on a large scale.
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That was really pointless from TB. CranK just proved Jessica was right by admitting that he lied to her. Also raising your voice at the Emperor - not cool.
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Well, I'm completely satisfied by that statement. Nothing else much to say about the scenario, even if I am still curious about how Slayers really did fall apart.
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Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support?
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On October 22 2012 01:23 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote: I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) Without picking a side anyone could tell that stuff was not good in Slayers at a certain point. Even before they had to bench MMA and such there were things that looked bad for them.
I agree but what Im questioning is Cranks insistence on Boxer/Jessica doing nothing to solve the problems or those problems arising from a lack of management. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Crank a liar, I'd just like some specifics, evidence etc. This statement offers very little and doesnt really add much to anything much less clear the air. Saying that, I can understand if axiom is hesitant releasing any specifics until they are sure about what they can say (im sure theres alot of behind the scenes chit chat going on).
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support?
Did you run out of baked beans? If not I know several hard working asians that could use some from you. Please mail them at:
In need of Soap Hypocrite Drive Thailand
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What an aweful comparision. What does one thing have to do with the other?
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This is just a classic "He said, she said" and given the track record of the she in this case (over the top drama queen that overreacts to everything) and the track record of the he in this case (a very good SC2 player supported by one of the most candid people on the internet) I'm going with the he.
I mean, you're not gonna find "evidence" to support either case unless the phones were tapped and there were cameras all over the SlayerS house and I'd think that in itself would be a bigger problem.
Believe who you want to believe, but don't fucking pretend that your opinion or anything you think constitutes evidence. I'm believing TB on this one.
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What are you talking about?
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On October 22 2012 02:40 Megabuster123 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What are you talking about?
He is trying to say its ok to work at a broken company as long as there are enough molested kids around. From such statement, one could make a great judgment of his intellect.
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Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary.....
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I don't know who's telling the truth, but I find it hilarious when Jessica says "i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be."
What on earth did she expect to happen after unloading all this stuff? This drama will continue for months, we still don't have a statement from MMA. The eSF is still around and people like MC have been continuing the twitter wars. If she wanted to "rest" then she shouldn't have aired this stuff.
Also, if there's something big to reveal, which she keeps saying there is, I think she should just go for it. The way I currently see this situation is we will eventually reach the point where she does and right now we're just adding a few weeks of drama before she lets us know what actually happened.
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On October 22 2012 02:49 Swords wrote: I don't know who's telling the truth, but I find it hilarious when Jessica says "i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be."
What on earth did she expect to happen after unloading all this stuff? This drama will continue for months, we still don't have a statement from MMA. The eSF is still around and people like MC have been continuing the twitter wars. If she wanted to "rest" then she shouldn't have aired this stuff.
Also, if there's something big to reveal, which she keeps saying there is, I think she should just go for it. The way I currently see this situation is we will eventually reach the point where she does and right now we're just adding a few weeks of drama before she lets us know what actually happened.
Hey if anyone thinks that, they would be very stupid. You always want to have an ace up your sleeves before exhausting all of your available option and Jessica is plainly following The Art War tactics. So yeah she is pretty smart in that regard.
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On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?!
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thx Biscuit this is very clear, well thought-out and completely enlightening.
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On October 22 2012 02:44 Chillax wrote: Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary.....
He read it verbatim, thus a written format exists. Whether he is celebrating or not has no context in the matter. Releasing audio takes more time and effort than to release a written format that already exists prior to the audio recording.
On October 22 2012 02:10 Intricacy wrote: Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind.
Alright, I'm of the same opinion on the statement. Yet, I believe in releasing both. It makes for an easy way for either side to refer to it and state their comments. Now they have to transcript it first.
If I haven't stressed it enough before, I really do applaud the effort on releasing an audio recording though.
Might I also add that, maybe unwittingly, you've only lengthened the drama by accusing the other party instead of solely disproving accusations thrown at your player? Which, I may aswell mention did not include any evidence to which TotalBisquit alluded, such as chatlogs.
On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around.
Indeed, because they chose to kiss eSF's butt straight after the ban. Besides, TSL was part of eSF thus it's only fair for them to be punished, instead of a team that's not even part of the organisation that embodies the majority of the scene.
On October 22 2012 01:21 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded.
Thanks, but I wasn't mad, I was disappointed, which is an entirely different emotion. Disappointed because it lacks professionalism which eSports teams sorely need. I tend to believe Jessica, Boxer and Cella because they so far have released the only evidence in this case. Sure, the evidence didn't pertain Crank, but she sure did show she was prepared and hasn't lied. This gives credit for other accusations. You should first of all realize that it's Jessica that gives Crank the option to humbly apologize before releasing evidence. Which in my opinion is a very saintly thing to give.
You may also want to read my analysis of Crank's statement as it has contradictions and holes in it, without even using Jessica's statement as reference.
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On October 22 2012 02:43 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:40 Megabuster123 wrote:On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What are you talking about? He is trying to say its ok to work at a broken company as long as there are enough molested kids around. From such statement, one could make a great judgment of his intellect. Woah woah woah, don't joke about molesting kids dude. That's just wrong even as sarcasm
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Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either.
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On October 22 2012 02:06 KivTM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:30 StarStruck wrote:On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote: I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) On the topic of Manager J. I wouldn't flat-out call something the main reason. I would look for the starting point of where it went south and the embezzling of money Manager J is a pretty good starting point if you ask me. Let alone the hiring. Some people are too trustworthy and in many cases they shouldn't be hiring anyone. There's a reason why recruitment firms/head hunter business has been booming for the last thirty years. It's because HR doesn't get the job done. My Mom's always joked about people in HR and how they can never make good head hunters. For reference she's been in the business for well over forty years as a president from everything from Hays Personnel, Saber Consulting, Design Group, CNC, etc. Unfortunately we're talking about small businesses (I even have a hard time calling them that). If it's not KeSPA in many cases it's completely entrepreneurial with only a few exceptions like FXO. You really need to have a firm pulse on your team and good thing Genna isn't looking to hire anyone soon. You do need to be a control freak when it's your own business. Jessica has some qualities of what I would call a good manager (she's passionate and she's a control freak) but not all. Anyway, I'm going to call the guy in question simply J because he simply doesn't deserve to be called a manager, which is almost ironic. The guy should have never been apart of the team in the first place. The lines of communication and player mistrust really started to breakdown with him. This doesn't mean he was the main reason however as there were many moving pieces to the puzzle that made this blow up. It's only a starting point. But isnt that exactly what qualifies it as the main reason? There were many other reasons of course but they were not as consequential as this one. Either way its a technicality of wording. I think we're both saying the same thing. There has been alot of discussion about whether or not Jessica was correct to hire manager J. Personally I think that hiring a person you have only known for 3 months to handle negotiations with sponsors is a bit naive especially when that person had only previously been doing minor tasks like managing the facebook team page. Still, I don't know what kind of relationship they had. Maybe they developed a good rapport with one another and he did his jobs well so Jessica decided to give him a chance. It's hard to lay fault at Jessica's feet for hiring an untrustworthy person when she had reason to think otherwise (if everyone played it as safe as me, there'd be nothing like hitch hiking in this world). Off topic, can your mum find me a job lol. Damn near impossible for a engineering grad to find entry level position work these days =[
No it does not because like I said there are a lot of moving pieces in this situation and that's why I look at it as a starting point. I don't know the guy and based on all the mud being flung around I really don't care. I look forward not backward.
As for my dear Mother who is very close to retirement. She's currently with Design Group and deals with all of Mike Duff's other properties as well. You either know what DG already does or it's merely coincidence. With that said, you are a stranger. I know nothing about you other than the fact you are a graduate student. My Mom always has a ton on her plate and I get asked this type of question very frequently. DG looks at career people because those hiring have easy access to grad students. They can fill those roles on their own.
That's me paraphrasing her anyway. Hopefully you finished at the top of your class and go to all the trade fairs and shows around your campus. It's all about social networking.
Finding your first job straight out of university is always the hardest and I wish you luck.
On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote: Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either.
That really isn't necessary, lol.
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On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote: Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either. Argh...I hope Crank isn't lying to TB..I like TB, nice guy giving back as much as he is getting. Would really suck if TB gets dragged down by trust
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On October 22 2012 03:11 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote: Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either. Argh...I hope Crank isn't lying to TB..I like TB, nice guy giving back as much as he is getting. Would really suck if TB gets dragged down by trust Nah tbh he wouldn't even be to blame. He's doing the right thing, trust your own player until proven wrong. It's stupid for anyone to blame TB for it, even IF Crank is lying, which i don't hope.
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Three things : - Nice statement, Axiom - Jessica is soooo bad at PR... - Crank, keep on doing great games!
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Jessica comes across as a bully to me.
I believe SC players more than I do actresses(or whatever she is/was).
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On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote: Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, esp. since Jessica insists on releasing the full phone call which will implicate other players. If it's released, not only does it risk damaging other players, but Crank's manners will probably just make everyone incriminate him even more, regardless of the actual content of what was said. Not to mention, the war will go on.
If the phone call isn't released, then the drama ends (sort of, unless Jessica insists on releasing it herself) and gets locked in a cold war of sorts. I expect Jessica to demand a formal apology though somewhat soon, even if the phone call isn't released.
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On October 22 2012 03:11 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:09 HolydaKing wrote: Wait... so the statement on the end of page 1 wasn't everything?
I just read the Blog post again and there is so much more now. His view on the phonecall makes sense to me, if what he says is true then i wouldn't be afraid of a publication of the phonecall either. Argh...I hope Crank isn't lying to TB..I like TB, nice guy giving back as much as he is getting. Would really suck if TB gets dragged down by trust
That's only from his understanding.
Perspective doesn't necessarily mean fact. We all decipher information differently; in other words, your perception of what was said and unsaid will be different from the next person. Sometimes people hear only what they want to hear especially when they are emotionally invested thus meaning can get lost very easily and this is what I mean when I say things get blurred.
I think it's ridiculous that we have all these detailed accounts of what transpired when in reality it's impossible to remember every little detail of what was said and unsaid. We would get different spins regardless of the eye witness accounts because we all perceive things differently. Just to make sure I drive that point home.
The only things we really remember vividly are those really emotionally charged moments.
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For what it's worth, my sincere thanks for adding a written copy Axiom!
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TB is a class act all the way.
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Everytime I see anything about Slayers, I feel like Jessica never grew out of being a high school bully. Or she was bullied and is becoming one now.
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People don't understand how damaging the audio tape can be. If Crank starts yelling even at 1 point at Jessica/Boxer (even yelling back) the Korean netizens are going to say he bullied Jessica or is a scumbag. The tape might mean jack to the foreign community, especially us, but it's going to completely fuck his life in Korea.
Those Korean netizens are pretty vicious.
Though Crank's statement doesn't sound at all like a lie, and I'm inclined 100% to believe him based on the other sources, it is basically Jessica's story. All it does is tell people why he left, he did not refute a real point that Jessica made, it's the same story told by a different narrator who believes he wasn't at fault.
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His statement and Jessica's one kinda contradict on some point, guess we will see who's the right one when the recording is out.
for people who don't know, Jessica has been dealing with media far longer than anyone else on the esport side. As an actress, dealing with media is her expertise, she knows what evidence she needs to put up and back up her claim. so even if she has been extremely emotional, her statement are backed up with evidence, much more convincing to the public (to me as well)
Crank statement is merely "I was poorly treated, low level code B tried to be better, but management never helped me out, and I was poor, so I joined a foreign team" However, when he was speaking about why he is leaving with jessica, his statement was completely different "just wanted a rest, no thought to join other team"
It's similar to how dragon just left slayers to join mill too.
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I'm pretty sure that right now I can't stand what Jessica has done. It would be ok if there was a concrete reason why SlayerS fell, but right now TSL is alive even after the supposed "bullying," J hasn't been named or kicked out of e-Sports, Coach Won has been slandered to the point that Ace had to come to his rescue, and finally MMA hasn't said shit so far. I'm confused what the point of this drama is anymore, its self-sustaining.
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Why did I read that wall of text in TotalBiscuit's voice? :| It was Crank's thoughts, but I all heard was TB's voice...
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On October 22 2012 02:12 ch33psh33p wrote: No bias here either right?
I wish both sides would actually own up for once. Equally. He did mention that both sides were in the wrong, but i'd have to agree, the implosion of any organization is a result of poor management, not its employees.
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On October 22 2012 04:22 docvoc wrote: I'm pretty sure that right now I can't stand what Jessica has done. It would be ok if there was a concrete reason why SlayerS fell, but right now TSL is alive even after the supposed "bullying," J hasn't been named or kicked out of e-Sports, Coach Won has been slandered to the point that Ace had to come to his rescue, and finally MMA hasn't said shit so far. I'm confused what the point of this drama is anymore, its self-sustaining.
1. TSL kissed eSF's butt so they lifted the ban, Slayers did not, so the ban stayed in place unofficially.
2. I honestly can't believe you cannot figure out why Mr. J hasn't been named. Does legal reasons ring a bell?
3. Coach Won has made morally questionable decisions, even very close to being illegal (inconclusive as to whether it was under Korean law). Why shouldn't he be slandered; you reap what you sow.
4. In what way does it matter that MMA hasn't said anything so far? Apperantly he has been preparing a statement, one can only wonder why if that doesn't come out though.
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Great statement. I felt very weird about how badly Jessica castigated these players, and even though I knew about some of Jessica's perhaps overreactions in the past I felt like MMA/Crank/etc were absolutely in the wrong and terrible people. But it felt weird that they would do something this heinous. Thanks for the statement so we at least are getting both side. Written would be nice but I await further developments .__.
I feel like this kind of consistent career-destroying drama puts a further stigma on a game that's already, as may are observing, starting to fall apart in comparison to many other esports games :/
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Sorry, but I didn't get anything from this statement. The only important points are did Crank lie about an injury and did he lie when he asked for a release. I didn't see anything here about those points. I just saw "I didn't feel comfortable so I was justified". Also, TB, I can understand you acting as a representative for your player, but you weren't there so you should avoid anything approaching commentary on the situation.
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That's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing about anything. At this point, claims on the lines of "it's the other person's fault because I say so and you can obviously trust me" is pointless. I will wait for the recordings.
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Respect TB, you are the man.
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I find it funny that people are either saying great statement, or terrible/meaningless/bad statement. This literally did nothing for anyone. People who disliked SlayerS/Jessica before the statement was released like it. Those who thought Jessica was severely wronged and were backing her up, are saying it is pointless. It isn't exactly surprising, and I am sure Axiom knew that it was going to happen when they released the statement.
I won't lie, I fall under the second category. Crank seems like he made complaints, but wasn't specific in his complaints. Jessica tried to do some basic things, such as putting Boxer in the house, to raise morale. Crank had specific complaints but didn't seem to voice communicate them very well. I don't think Crank is bad or evil for what he did, just ever so slightly immature. The situation could have been handled far better on both sides(obviously).
No one is completely innocent in this situation. Jessica wasn't the best manager, Crank could have left in a far better way, J is evil, etc etc. I sincerely hope at this point MMA doesn't release a statement, Jessica doesn't release the audio recording, and this drama can be left behind us. Lessons were learned, and hopefully in the future the same mistakes aren't had again. But, no more info will help at this point. Only more ruined reputations and and drama that is no longer needed.
I'd also like to echo the people saying that you should release a written statement at first, with the audio statement. I understand that you wanted it to be more personal, so you released an audio recording, but I personally won't listen to an audio statement in a situation like this. I don't want someones voice to influence my opinion on the matter, I want the words themselves to help me form my opinion. It would just be appreciated if you released the written as well, in the future.
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I would like to add one thing. There is no lie in regards to CranKs physical state. He is receiving physio for his condition and he did indeed suffer from it while in the SlayerS house. He has had this condition on record since his time at SKT1, it is not some mystery or fake illness. He suffers from flare ups, it occurred during MLG Raleigh though he hid it well and continued to play, he is currently at home resting after going in and out of hospital for this condition over tne last week, which is why he had to pull out of MvP, a tournament he was winning his bracket in I might add.
Discontent with SlayerS conditions and having to rest due to medical reasons are not mutually exclusive factors. Indeed, one aggravates the other.
On the subject of spoken statement, this is standard across the world, expect more of them and rightly so. This is a professional eSports scene, we should act the part.
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I decided to read it so it would be faster- I ended up reading it in Totalbiscuits voice anyway =] But ya the statement makes sense- Crank didnt do anything wrong by leaving a team that wasnt properly supporting him.
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God i had jessica. She is allowed to release private things about people, but if you try to sling anything at her she will try to sue you or something.
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On October 22 2012 06:28 mrRoflpwn wrote: I decided to read it so it would be faster- I ended up reading it in Totalbiscuits voice anyway =] But ya the statement makes sense- Crank didnt do anything wrong by leaving a team that wasnt properly supporting him.
Which could be a lie. So take it in with a big massive chunk of NaCl.
On October 22 2012 06:44 skatblast wrote: God i had jessica. She is allowed to release private things about people, but if you try to sling anything at her she will try to sue you or something.
And say that you found out that your friend have lied to you about a certain subject, and you have it recorded his msg that will contradict his argument, you would do the same too.
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Release the tape then. The passive-aggressive 'oh, but I have proof' without actually....you know....showing any.... Is wasting all our time. Judging by what I've read and seen alone, things imploded rather completely on more than one front. What's the common factor? Who, at the end of the day, is responsible for keeping on top of issues inside the team? I don't read Korean, but judging from some of the 'threats' going around, there's some fear of her 'status' in the korean scene? If the Korean scene is based so much on say-so and hush orders and boycotts and bans.... Maybe they're better off getting out soonest and just let it implode.
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On October 22 2012 03:04 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:44 Chillax wrote: Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary..... He read it verbatim, thus a written format exists. Whether he is celebrating or not has no context in the matter. Releasing audio takes more time and effort than to release a written format that already exists prior to the audio recording. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:10 Intricacy wrote: Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind. Alright, I'm of the same opinion on the statement. Yet, I believe in releasing both. It makes for an easy way for either side to refer to it and state their comments. Now they have to transcript it first. If I haven't stressed it enough before, I really do applaud the effort on releasing an audio recording though. Might I also add that, maybe unwittingly, you've only lengthened the drama by accusing the other party instead of solely disproving accusations thrown at your player? Which, I may aswell mention did not include any evidence to which TotalBisquit alluded, such as chatlogs. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around. Indeed, because they chose to kiss eSF's butt straight after the ban. Besides, TSL was part of eSF thus it's only fair for them to be punished, instead of a team that's not even part of the organisation that embodies the majority of the scene. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:21 mrtomjones wrote:On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded. Thanks, but I wasn't mad, I was disappointed, which is an entirely different emotion. Disappointed because it lacks professionalism which eSports teams sorely need. I tend to believe Jessica, Boxer and Cella because they so far have released the only evidence in this case. Sure, the evidence didn't pertain Crank, but she sure did show she was prepared and hasn't lied. This gives credit for other accusations. You should first of all realize that it's Jessica that gives Crank the option to humbly apologize before releasing evidence. Which in my opinion is a very saintly thing to give. You may also want to read my analysis of Crank's statement as it has contradictions and holes in it, without even using Jessica's statement as reference.
Your dissapointment is completely illogical and ridiculous.. the fact that people want everything RIGHT NOW on the internet is disgusting
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On October 22 2012 07:03 Thomanson wrote: Release the tape then. The passive-aggressive 'oh, but I have proof' without actually....you know....showing any.... Is wasting all our time. Judging by what I've read and seen alone, things imploded rather completely on more than one front. What's the common factor? Who, at the end of the day, is responsible for keeping on top of issues inside the team? I don't read Korean, but judging from some of the 'threats' going around, there's some fear of her 'status' in the korean scene? If the Korean scene is based so much on say-so and hush orders and boycotts and bans.... Maybe they're better off getting out soonest and just let it implode.
Hey man, speak for yourself. I'm loving the drama.
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Axiom is setting an ideal for other teams to strive for. I always see things handled unprofessionally but this is the first breath of fresh air I've seen in eSports
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On October 21 2012 19:14 Endymion wrote: totalbiscuit is sexy and i love him. that is all.
#1 #1 reply
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On October 22 2012 07:04 Jepsyn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:04 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 02:44 Chillax wrote: Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary..... He read it verbatim, thus a written format exists. Whether he is celebrating or not has no context in the matter. Releasing audio takes more time and effort than to release a written format that already exists prior to the audio recording. On October 22 2012 02:10 Intricacy wrote: Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind. Alright, I'm of the same opinion on the statement. Yet, I believe in releasing both. It makes for an easy way for either side to refer to it and state their comments. Now they have to transcript it first. If I haven't stressed it enough before, I really do applaud the effort on releasing an audio recording though. Might I also add that, maybe unwittingly, you've only lengthened the drama by accusing the other party instead of solely disproving accusations thrown at your player? Which, I may aswell mention did not include any evidence to which TotalBisquit alluded, such as chatlogs. On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around. Indeed, because they chose to kiss eSF's butt straight after the ban. Besides, TSL was part of eSF thus it's only fair for them to be punished, instead of a team that's not even part of the organisation that embodies the majority of the scene. On October 22 2012 01:21 mrtomjones wrote:On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded. Thanks, but I wasn't mad, I was disappointed, which is an entirely different emotion. Disappointed because it lacks professionalism which eSports teams sorely need. I tend to believe Jessica, Boxer and Cella because they so far have released the only evidence in this case. Sure, the evidence didn't pertain Crank, but she sure did show she was prepared and hasn't lied. This gives credit for other accusations. You should first of all realize that it's Jessica that gives Crank the option to humbly apologize before releasing evidence. Which in my opinion is a very saintly thing to give. You may also want to read my analysis of Crank's statement as it has contradictions and holes in it, without even using Jessica's statement as reference. Your dissapointment is completely illogical and ridiculous.. the fact that people want everything RIGHT NOW on the internet is disgusting
I don't share that opinion. I think it's fair to expect evidence in some form if TotalBisquit earlier alluded to them reviewing chatlogs and other evidence.
On October 22 2012 07:03 Thomanson wrote: Release the tape then. The passive-aggressive 'oh, but I have proof' without actually....you know....showing any.... Is wasting all our time. Judging by what I've read and seen alone, things imploded rather completely on more than one front. What's the common factor? Who, at the end of the day, is responsible for keeping on top of issues inside the team? I don't read Korean, but judging from some of the 'threats' going around, there's some fear of her 'status' in the korean scene? If the Korean scene is based so much on say-so and hush orders and boycotts and bans.... Maybe they're better off getting out soonest and just let it implode.
This was released at the most inopportune timing for Jessica. She has been filming in Thailand, and if I'm correct, is at the moment on the plane to South Korea. When she lands she has 2 hours to go to her next filming appointment in South Korea. Give her some slack, we had to wait 3 days or somesuch for TotalBisquits statement.
On October 22 2012 06:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: I would like to add one thing. There is no lie in regards to CranKs physical state. He is receiving physio for his condition and he did indeed suffer from it while in the SlayerS house. He has had this condition on record since his time at SKT1, it is not some mystery or fake illness. He suffers from flare ups, it occurred during MLG Raleigh though he hid it well and continued to play, he is currently at home resting after going in and out of hospital for this condition over tne last week, which is why he had to pull out of MvP, a tournament he was winning his bracket in I might add.
Discontent with SlayerS conditions and having to rest due to medical reasons are not mutually exclusive factors. Indeed, one aggravates the other.
On the subject of spoken statement, this is standard across the world, expect more of them and rightly so. This is a professional eSports scene, we should act the part.
Isn't it strange however that he has been released from Slayers because of his neck problems, while streaming for 8-10 hours a day from that very same day he got released?
As for the last part: Thanks for showing the willingness to improve upon your organization TotalBisquit, I'm sure you have only the best of ideals regarding eSports in mind.
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On October 22 2012 03:08 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:43 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 22 2012 02:40 Megabuster123 wrote:On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? What are you talking about? He is trying to say its ok to work at a broken company as long as there are enough molested kids around. From such statement, one could make a great judgment of his intellect. Woah woah woah, don't joke about molesting kids dude. That's just wrong even as sarcasm Thats not me joking thats him being serious. (I just pointed out that he is not just obviously wrong, but also morally bankrupt) I already made a sarcastic remark sooner. EDIT: That is the mentioned WERRA scandal.
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On October 22 2012 07:17 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 07:04 Jepsyn wrote:On October 22 2012 03:04 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 02:44 Chillax wrote: Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary..... He read it verbatim, thus a written format exists. Whether he is celebrating or not has no context in the matter. Releasing audio takes more time and effort than to release a written format that already exists prior to the audio recording. On October 22 2012 02:10 Intricacy wrote: Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind. Alright, I'm of the same opinion on the statement. Yet, I believe in releasing both. It makes for an easy way for either side to refer to it and state their comments. Now they have to transcript it first. If I haven't stressed it enough before, I really do applaud the effort on releasing an audio recording though. Might I also add that, maybe unwittingly, you've only lengthened the drama by accusing the other party instead of solely disproving accusations thrown at your player? Which, I may aswell mention did not include any evidence to which TotalBisquit alluded, such as chatlogs. On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around. Indeed, because they chose to kiss eSF's butt straight after the ban. Besides, TSL was part of eSF thus it's only fair for them to be punished, instead of a team that's not even part of the organisation that embodies the majority of the scene. On October 22 2012 01:21 mrtomjones wrote:On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded. Thanks, but I wasn't mad, I was disappointed, which is an entirely different emotion. Disappointed because it lacks professionalism which eSports teams sorely need. I tend to believe Jessica, Boxer and Cella because they so far have released the only evidence in this case. Sure, the evidence didn't pertain Crank, but she sure did show she was prepared and hasn't lied. This gives credit for other accusations. You should first of all realize that it's Jessica that gives Crank the option to humbly apologize before releasing evidence. Which in my opinion is a very saintly thing to give. You may also want to read my analysis of Crank's statement as it has contradictions and holes in it, without even using Jessica's statement as reference. Your dissapointment is completely illogical and ridiculous.. the fact that people want everything RIGHT NOW on the internet is disgusting I don't share that opinion. I think it's fair to expect evidence in some form if TotalBisquit earlier alluded to them reviewing chatlogs and other evidence. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 07:03 Thomanson wrote: Release the tape then. The passive-aggressive 'oh, but I have proof' without actually....you know....showing any.... Is wasting all our time. Judging by what I've read and seen alone, things imploded rather completely on more than one front. What's the common factor? Who, at the end of the day, is responsible for keeping on top of issues inside the team? I don't read Korean, but judging from some of the 'threats' going around, there's some fear of her 'status' in the korean scene? If the Korean scene is based so much on say-so and hush orders and boycotts and bans.... Maybe they're better off getting out soonest and just let it implode. This was released at the most inopportune timing for Jessica. She has been filming in Thailand, and if I'm correct, is at the moment on the plane to South Korea. When she lands she has 2 hours to go to her next filming appointment in South Korea. Give her some slack, we had to wait 3 days or somesuch for TotalBisquits statement. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 06:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: I would like to add one thing. There is no lie in regards to CranKs physical state. He is receiving physio for his condition and he did indeed suffer from it while in the SlayerS house. He has had this condition on record since his time at SKT1, it is not some mystery or fake illness. He suffers from flare ups, it occurred during MLG Raleigh though he hid it well and continued to play, he is currently at home resting after going in and out of hospital for this condition over tne last week, which is why he had to pull out of MvP, a tournament he was winning his bracket in I might add.
Discontent with SlayerS conditions and having to rest due to medical reasons are not mutually exclusive factors. Indeed, one aggravates the other.
On the subject of spoken statement, this is standard across the world, expect more of them and rightly so. This is a professional eSports scene, we should act the part. Isn't it strange however that he has been released from Slayers because of his neck problems, while streaming for 8-10 hours a day from that very same day he got released?
??? do u know how many people suffer in quiet daily pain with physical problems whilst at work? "oh no ive got contact dermatitis and look/feel like a burn victim" , "oh no i fell over in the bathroom and bruised/cracked my ribs", "oh no i have an agonising rash on my balls", "oh no i have rediculous acne and flaking skin and just want to drop dead and not be seen by anyone" -> you still go to work , keep your reputation/opportunities in standing , pay the bills and endure until things hopefully get better or the next big issue comes along. this isnt like getting the flu and someone covers your ass because your company doesnt really care if you're away for 3 days. this is making a real life living where nomatter how much relentless physical & mental suffering & torture you are put through you just keep on going
ps WTF do i have so many problems
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On October 22 2012 07:58 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 07:17 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 07:04 Jepsyn wrote:On October 22 2012 03:04 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 02:44 Chillax wrote: Are people seriously upset that he released it in an audio format instead of text? The guy is on holiday with his wife celebrating his wedding anniversary..... He read it verbatim, thus a written format exists. Whether he is celebrating or not has no context in the matter. Releasing audio takes more time and effort than to release a written format that already exists prior to the audio recording. On October 22 2012 02:10 Intricacy wrote: Apologies that our initial statement was not also written down. I found that releasing text-based statements, while professional, are not always the best at portraying a team's passion in standing by their players. Team press releases always come off really sterile in my opinion.
As owner and manager of Axiom, I would like to say that even though Jessica has issued a response to our statement, we refuse to engage in a drawn out drama that would have little actual benefit to anyone. Right now, we are focusing on our upcoming November schedule where CranK will compete at MLG Dallas, Lonestar Clash 2 and IPL5.
Thank you to those who have listened to our statement with an open mind. Alright, I'm of the same opinion on the statement. Yet, I believe in releasing both. It makes for an easy way for either side to refer to it and state their comments. Now they have to transcript it first. If I haven't stressed it enough before, I really do applaud the effort on releasing an audio recording though. Might I also add that, maybe unwittingly, you've only lengthened the drama by accusing the other party instead of solely disproving accusations thrown at your player? Which, I may aswell mention did not include any evidence to which TotalBisquit alluded, such as chatlogs. On October 22 2012 02:19 shiroiusagi wrote:On October 22 2012 02:14 jellyjello wrote: TB, you don't understand how big of a mess Mr. Won created when he isolated slayers by imposing other teams from practicing. Bullying is no fucking joke here in Korea. Ever wondered why all those players in TSL wanted to get the fuck out of the team a while ago? Yeah... That's right, the same reason why slayers were seemingly losing players for a dubious reason. For you to state that bullying from eSF was only a part of the problem indicates that you simply don't get it, because bullying was THE problem and Mr. Won knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish when he issued the banning. And TSL is still around. Indeed, because they chose to kiss eSF's butt straight after the ban. Besides, TSL was part of eSF thus it's only fair for them to be punished, instead of a team that's not even part of the organisation that embodies the majority of the scene. On October 22 2012 01:21 mrtomjones wrote:On October 21 2012 21:24 Shival wrote: I am deeply disappointed in the statement released by TotalBisquit/Axiom/Crank. First of all it's solely an audio recording, even though he's reading it verbatim. Thus a written account must exist. Why is that written account not released to the public, as that's how one should release statements in this situation. While I do applaud your effort for releasing audio, solely it's just not enough.
Secondly, it's solely based on Crank's words. No so called chatlogs or evidence has been released by TotalBisquit which he did allude to earlier. This entire statement is a farce and not nearly enough to dispell any accusations.
Because it's an audio statement it will take me a while to transcript parts of it to respond to, but I'll try to make an effort to show where I feel it's insufficient or simply a faulty thought process. Wow you are ridiculous. Most of what Crank has said seems to be based on personal conversations. A lot of what Jessica has said was based on conversations too. You can either choose to believe Crank which seems fairly plausible to me or not but getting mad about TB doing it in audio form is retarded. Thanks, but I wasn't mad, I was disappointed, which is an entirely different emotion. Disappointed because it lacks professionalism which eSports teams sorely need. I tend to believe Jessica, Boxer and Cella because they so far have released the only evidence in this case. Sure, the evidence didn't pertain Crank, but she sure did show she was prepared and hasn't lied. This gives credit for other accusations. You should first of all realize that it's Jessica that gives Crank the option to humbly apologize before releasing evidence. Which in my opinion is a very saintly thing to give. You may also want to read my analysis of Crank's statement as it has contradictions and holes in it, without even using Jessica's statement as reference. Your dissapointment is completely illogical and ridiculous.. the fact that people want everything RIGHT NOW on the internet is disgusting I don't share that opinion. I think it's fair to expect evidence in some form if TotalBisquit earlier alluded to them reviewing chatlogs and other evidence. On October 22 2012 07:03 Thomanson wrote: Release the tape then. The passive-aggressive 'oh, but I have proof' without actually....you know....showing any.... Is wasting all our time. Judging by what I've read and seen alone, things imploded rather completely on more than one front. What's the common factor? Who, at the end of the day, is responsible for keeping on top of issues inside the team? I don't read Korean, but judging from some of the 'threats' going around, there's some fear of her 'status' in the korean scene? If the Korean scene is based so much on say-so and hush orders and boycotts and bans.... Maybe they're better off getting out soonest and just let it implode. This was released at the most inopportune timing for Jessica. She has been filming in Thailand, and if I'm correct, is at the moment on the plane to South Korea. When she lands she has 2 hours to go to her next filming appointment in South Korea. Give her some slack, we had to wait 3 days or somesuch for TotalBisquits statement. On October 22 2012 06:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: I would like to add one thing. There is no lie in regards to CranKs physical state. He is receiving physio for his condition and he did indeed suffer from it while in the SlayerS house. He has had this condition on record since his time at SKT1, it is not some mystery or fake illness. He suffers from flare ups, it occurred during MLG Raleigh though he hid it well and continued to play, he is currently at home resting after going in and out of hospital for this condition over tne last week, which is why he had to pull out of MvP, a tournament he was winning his bracket in I might add.
Discontent with SlayerS conditions and having to rest due to medical reasons are not mutually exclusive factors. Indeed, one aggravates the other.
On the subject of spoken statement, this is standard across the world, expect more of them and rightly so. This is a professional eSports scene, we should act the part. Isn't it strange however that he has been released from Slayers because of his neck problems, while streaming for 8-10 hours a day from that very same day he got released? ??? do u know how many people suffer in quiet daily pain with physical problems whilst at work? "oh no ive got contact dermatitis and look/feel like a burn victim" , "oh no i fell over in the bathroom and bruised/cracked my ribs", "oh no i have an agonising rash on my balls", -> you still go to work , keep your reputation/opportunities in standing , pay the bills and endure until things hopefully get better or the next big issue comes along. this isnt like getting the flu and someone covers your ass because your company doesnt really care if you're away for 3 days. this is making a real life living where nomatter how much relentless physical & mental suffering & torture you are put through you just keep on going
Yes I do know, which is exactly what makes me wonder about Crank's reasoning. I don't see what made you think I didn't. If you'd like to read up further on why I think the way I do, here's a little quote I made in another thread about this subject with some more details.
However he does seem to have used it as an excuse in the matter. Here's a couple of facts and statements (gained through various threads, even older ones), make of it what you will.
- He first mentioned his disk problem somewhere close, but before the 21st of july 2012. He asked to go home to practice for the RO4 of the GSTL. (side comment: what difference does home make in the case of neck problems?) - During this time he told Cella that he wasn't going to practice at home and to keep it a secret. - On the 21st of july 2012 he asked if he could be removed from the roster of the GSTL. No reply to either of Jessica's messages on that day. Even though it was the RO4 on that day. - Some time later but between the 21st and 26th of july 2012, Cella told Jessica that Crank told him he would be quitting the game. He (Crank) stated himself to Jessica that he wanted to rest, and had no thoughts of joining another team be it foreign or otherwise. - He was released (voluntarily) by Slayers on the 26th due to disk problems and tiredness. - On that very same day he was found streaming for 8 to 10 hours. This continued for at the very least a couple more days. - During his streams he actively tried to find new teams to support him.
Isn't this a very short term to change your mind so completely, not to mention apperantly not having as much problems with your neck at the time as you were making them/and us believe.
Also: "Crank claims that he only planned to play SC2 till the end of this year, and he left the team so he could play the game comfortably, but we'll have to see if that's true. Just in case he wants to change his story later, I recorded his call."
Now I assume that's the Korean new year (Februari 10th, 2013), so let's see shall we? I don't know why Axiom thinks it's a good idea to sign a player that claims to play for such a short term only. Oh well...
Also, I get the feeling you yourself have had physical pain during your job. I'm sorry to hear that if so, I know how difficult it can be.
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Shival I am curious, where did you get the information that CranK was "found streaming for 8 to 10 hours" on the 26th of July?
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idk anything about that, at first glance to me honestly it seems more like he'd simply HAD ENOUGH and when released from the burden and stress of it all could chill out streaming for the day i have no idea anyway what this thread is even about
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Very interesting. Nice to hear both sides of the story.
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On October 22 2012 08:10 TotalBiscuit wrote: Shival I am curious, where did you get the information that CranK was "found streaming for 8 to 10 hours" on the 26th of July?
Well first of all it was something I personally could remember when he was dismissed from his team. There was quite a controversy at that time aswell. I know this isn't proof enough, as I've been hammering this home for a while now in regards to Crank's statement.
So give me a minute to gather what I've looked up a while ago. I'll edit this post.
Edit:
On July 25 2012 23:41 Ingebrigtsen wrote: wow, he should really get some love, waking up at 6 am just so that he could stream at a good time, big props
On July 26 2012 11:21 Heh_ wrote: Wait a sec... Crank has a slipped disc (sounds like it) and he's streaming like a boss? Something seems strange to me.
On July 26 2012 11:30 skyrunner wrote: Pretty obvious that something else going on with crank.
Yesterday he said several times that he was teamless and not on slayers. Now when he saw the news he stopped streaming...
On July 26 2012 11:32 Waxangel wrote: neck disk? "hyper enteritis" woulda been more believable
On July 26 2012 16:58 herbie wrote: ♥ Genius, He would be unstoppable with the right practice.
The Crank situation seems very shady, I saw him say several times say "no team" in a skype conv. Why would he change his twitter and everything for an injury. "Secret House", "Can't show my face", why not just announce it sooner. Something went on that they are trying to cover up.
On July 27 2012 11:15 Isillian wrote:Thanks for streaming, I hope you keep doing it .
On July 27 2012 10:17 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 07:09 opterown wrote:On July 27 2012 07:00 jinorazi wrote:On July 27 2012 05:10 Wuster wrote:On July 27 2012 02:43 PhoenixVoid wrote: I am quite surprised to see such a lazy player like Genius enter a team which places such a focus on constant practice and repetition which Genius seems to hate. Still, hope he finds a good home in SlayerS, and Crank finds a good team. I think Genius' aversion to practice is overstated. He likes to brag that he doesn't put much effort into maintaining Code S, but in season 1 we saw he had the ability to turn it on. Plus he was an ex-BW pro (fellow Terran b-teamer with Idra in fact). So it's not like he doesn't know how to grind out games. The Crank thing just gets stranger by the day... I wonder if it's related to the MMA thing; but I guess we won't be finding out. "Regarding their released protoss player, Crank, Slayers stated that "Crank had a problem with the disk of his neck and is currently recieving treatment at home.Accusations of him leaving due to a fight within the team is false. We Hope Crank concentrates only on his recovery and we hope that everything turns out well. We hope we can see him back in the future.:" still smells fishy haha Exactly, I read the op, I just don't buy it (especially with what people are saying about Crank's stream).
Thanks to Darmuth for pointing out to me that I forgot to mention something here. So here goes. I quoted this because I found it important to show that Crank made a new streaming account instead or made a thread for it. Obviously what is being said in this quote had been edited later than July the 28th. Last edit is: 2012-10-07 00:22:19. I'm sorry for this mistake.
On August 06 2012 12:28 Clefairy wrote:After several weeks of Jessica's random spats of rage on Twitter at someone she didn't mention. Crank:As expected. I definitely spent over 2 hours talking with them and thought we came to an understanding. I'm an idiot for even attempting to talk it out. I really want to applaud their determination. If there's something you want to say please do it over the phone whoever it is. Don't write it on Twitter. I had neck pain so I returned home to rest, and I couldn't see eye to eye with the team's management policies so I tried many times to talk with them but nothing changed so I left the team. But then the next day the article says I had neck disk problems. Is there even time to bother about a nobody like me. Please just stop talking behind my back. I'm getting so much stress. https://twitter.com/CranK829
That's all the info I could find in a short time a while back. While I certainly agree that never is the amount of time said in these quotes. I hope we both can agree that the general tone is that he's been streaming quite religiously those days. Apperantly it also started a bit earlier than what I could remember (25th or earlier of July instead of 26th).
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<3 TB.
Thanks so much for posting this.
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wow it is nice to hear from Crank! Gives a different perspective from everything else! Too bad this issue is still yet to be resolved.
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I am so sick of Jessica. So sick. Always drama. Always bullshit. Very often on the wrong end, but even in cases where she is proven right, I am left with such a sour taste in my mouth. It saddens me to say this, because I have such respect for Boxer and Slayers, but I am happy that they disbanded if only for players to get proper management and for Jessica to stop being involved in all of this crap.
Enough is enough. She deserves, and thankfully receives, very little respect.
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On October 22 2012 02:29 KivTM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:23 mrtomjones wrote:On October 22 2012 01:13 KivTM wrote: I like you total biscuit but I thought it was a poor statement. Very little evidence, a whole lot of sympathy fishing and no specifics on how exactly the team was being mismanaged. I also disagree with you when you say that it would be difficult for a few players to bring down an oranisation. Once a seed of mistrust is planted, it stays there especially if planted by influential players like MMA. Saying that, the main reason of disbanding was probably due to what Manager J told the players about Jessica embezzling money (which I can't believe because it doesnt make any sense for Boxer to spend loads of cash to form a team just to steal from the players) Without picking a side anyone could tell that stuff was not good in Slayers at a certain point. Even before they had to bench MMA and such there were things that looked bad for them. I agree but what Im questioning is Cranks insistence on Boxer/Jessica doing nothing to solve the problems or those problems arising from a lack of management. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Crank a liar, I'd just like some specifics, evidence etc. This statement offers very little and doesnt really add much to anything much less clear the air. Saying that, I can understand if axiom is hesitant releasing any specifics until they are sure about what they can say (im sure theres alot of behind the scenes chit chat going on).
"I didn't believe the living conditions were fair, so I made sure everyone else knew I thought the living conditions were unfair. Then, when living conditions didn't get better, I asked to leave so that I could go to a place with better living conditions. My house. But it turns out that was really hard on me... so I got angry and left the team, burning as many bridges as possible along the way. Oh, and I made sure to tell all of my teammates what fuckers those bastards in management were for not listening to my complaints even though I contributed almost nothing in terms of value for the team in all of the time I was being fed and housed by the team. This may or may not have caused a significant amount of friction between my teammates and the management, which may or may not have played a part in the team disbanding... but all in all, I've done nothing I regret and believe things turned out about as well as they could have in the end."
Yeah... I know I'm skewing what he said... but that's probably how the majority of the collectivist minded Koreans see Crank's situation...
That's how I see it anyways. BoxeR SPECIFICALLY made the team to have better conditions than the ones he had when he started out as a progamer... I guess the "improved conditions" weren't good enough for the players on SlayerS. I don't mean to make them sound ungrateful... but what other job out of middle school gives you the ability to become famous and make hundreds of thousands of dollars on pure hard work alone? While also giving you free food and lodging and practice equipment and coaching? Especially in Korea... the land of three college degrees per waiter...
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On October 22 2012 08:40 ShatterZer0 wrote:
Yeah... I know I'm skewing what he said...
I'm not entirely sure why we release statements if people are willing to just make up their own.
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On October 22 2012 08:36 LaM wrote: I am so sick of Jessica. So sick. Always drama. Always bullshit. Very often on the wrong end, but even in cases where she is proven right, I am left with such a sour taste in my mouth. It saddens me to say this, because I have such respect for Boxer and Slayers, but I am happy that they disbanded if only for players to get proper management and for Jessica to stop being involved in all of this crap.
Enough is enough. She deserves, and thankfully receives, very little respect.
I think you speak for pretty much everyone with this. I couldn't have voiced how I feel better myself.
This stuff really needs to get aired. She really needs to stay far away from anything involved with managing people. I'm sure she has many talents, and can be successful in other things, but for her own and everyone she deals with's sake, she should stay away from this kinda stuff.
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On October 22 2012 08:19 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 08:10 TotalBiscuit wrote: Shival I am curious, where did you get the information that CranK was "found streaming for 8 to 10 hours" on the 26th of July? Well first of all it was something I personally could remember when he was dismissed from his team. There was quite a controversy at that time aswell. I know this isn't proof enough, as I've been hammering this home for a while now in regards to Crank's statement. So give me a minute to gather what I've looked up a while ago. I'll edit this post. Edit: That's all the info I could find in a short time a while back. While I certainly agree that never is the amount of time said in these quotes. I hope we both can agree that the general tone is that he's been streaming quite religiously those days. Apperantly it also started a bit earlier than what I could remember (25th or earlier of July instead of 26th).
Whoa that is amazing research there considering that Axiom was not anouced until September 26, and MLG Summer Championship in which TB sponsored him and went by the name of Cynical Crank was August 24 through 26 and yet you're claiming that he anouced he was part of Axiom in July? Before it even existed? Either you need to do better research or you're lying outright to prove a point. Do you happen to work in politics?
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On October 22 2012 08:46 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 08:40 ShatterZer0 wrote:
Yeah... I know I'm skewing what he said... I'm not entirely sure why we release statements if people are willing to just make up their own.
Probably to make sure your player doesn't become the butt of baseless rumors that damage his reputation. For the most part it worked. I mean Crank obviously isn't a bad guy... just a very frustrated stressed one that's reaching as hard as he can for his dream while he can. The foriegn community has already forgotten whatever wrongs, if they exist at all, that Crank committed and just want him to play.
Just to someone who's Korean, reads playxp, and understands how the surrounding media in Korea thinks at least a little... I kinda feel like it was a bad move to put out such a deeply despairing personal statement. It just doesn't work with our culture. The official statement reads more as a challenge to Jessica and SlayerS than it does a heartfelt goodbye; which is what I guess it was supposed to be.
To Koreans it pretty much reads like Crank is blaming SlayerS for all of his poor happenings (which may be true, but even if it is Koreans are fiercly hierarchical so that's a no good) and that he's run away to a foreign team where he'll end up being treated better than most players who've gotten to GSL Code S semi-finals. Something else that they also consider unfair...
I know that it's probably lots of fault on the management side, and that Crank was only complaining about sweatshop conditions, but that's how they will see it.
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On October 22 2012 09:09 Darmuth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 08:19 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 08:10 TotalBiscuit wrote: Shival I am curious, where did you get the information that CranK was "found streaming for 8 to 10 hours" on the 26th of July? Well first of all it was something I personally could remember when he was dismissed from his team. There was quite a controversy at that time aswell. I know this isn't proof enough, as I've been hammering this home for a while now in regards to Crank's statement. So give me a minute to gather what I've looked up a while ago. I'll edit this post. Edit: That's all the info I could find in a short time a while back. While I certainly agree that never is the amount of time said in these quotes. I hope we both can agree that the general tone is that he's been streaming quite religiously those days. Apperantly it also started a bit earlier than what I could remember (25th or earlier of July instead of 26th). Whoa that is amazing research there considering that Axiom was not anouced until September 26, and MLG Summer Championship in which TB sponsored him and went by the name of Cynical Crank was August 24 through 26 and yet you're claiming that he anouced he was part of Axiom in July? Before it even existed? Either you need to do better research or you're lying outright to prove a point. Do you happen to work in politics?
Argh, thanks for pointing that out. Forgot to mention why I quoted it. It has been edited obviously, he made a new streaming account/thread on that date instead of his old one(?). That's all I was trying to point out. Editing previous comment now.
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On October 22 2012 09:14 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 09:09 Darmuth wrote:On October 22 2012 08:19 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 08:10 TotalBiscuit wrote: Shival I am curious, where did you get the information that CranK was "found streaming for 8 to 10 hours" on the 26th of July? Well first of all it was something I personally could remember when he was dismissed from his team. There was quite a controversy at that time aswell. I know this isn't proof enough, as I've been hammering this home for a while now in regards to Crank's statement. So give me a minute to gather what I've looked up a while ago. I'll edit this post. Edit: That's all the info I could find in a short time a while back. While I certainly agree that never is the amount of time said in these quotes. I hope we both can agree that the general tone is that he's been streaming quite religiously those days. Apperantly it also started a bit earlier than what I could remember (25th or earlier of July instead of 26th). Whoa that is amazing research there considering that Axiom was not anouced until September 26, and MLG Summer Championship in which TB sponsored him and went by the name of Cynical Crank was August 24 through 26 and yet you're claiming that he anouced he was part of Axiom in July? Before it even existed? Either you need to do better research or you're lying outright to prove a point. Do you happen to work in politics? Argh, thanks for pointing that out. Forgot to mention why I quoted it. It has been edited obviously, he made a new streaming account/thread on that date instead of his old one(?). That's all I was trying to point out. Editing previous comment now.
Alright man, honest mistake, but when looking for data like that good to have your ducks in a row, could bring question of the validity of your other statements is all. Take it easy.
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am i the only one that had TBs voice in my head while reading all this? :D
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On October 22 2012 09:27 Darmuth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 09:14 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 09:09 Darmuth wrote:On October 22 2012 08:19 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 08:10 TotalBiscuit wrote: Shival I am curious, where did you get the information that CranK was "found streaming for 8 to 10 hours" on the 26th of July? Well first of all it was something I personally could remember when he was dismissed from his team. There was quite a controversy at that time aswell. I know this isn't proof enough, as I've been hammering this home for a while now in regards to Crank's statement. So give me a minute to gather what I've looked up a while ago. I'll edit this post. Edit: That's all the info I could find in a short time a while back. While I certainly agree that never is the amount of time said in these quotes. I hope we both can agree that the general tone is that he's been streaming quite religiously those days. Apperantly it also started a bit earlier than what I could remember (25th or earlier of July instead of 26th). Whoa that is amazing research there considering that Axiom was not anouced until September 26, and MLG Summer Championship in which TB sponsored him and went by the name of Cynical Crank was August 24 through 26 and yet you're claiming that he anouced he was part of Axiom in July? Before it even existed? Either you need to do better research or you're lying outright to prove a point. Do you happen to work in politics? Argh, thanks for pointing that out. Forgot to mention why I quoted it. It has been edited obviously, he made a new streaming account/thread on that date instead of his old one(?). That's all I was trying to point out. Editing previous comment now. Alright man, honest mistake, but when looking for data like that good to have your ducks in a row, could bring question of the validity of your other statements is all. Take it easy.
Agreed, thanks again.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Very professionally done by Axiom, but there's just no end to all this drama is there? It's too much for me to handle. I think I'll take another break from SC2. Best of luck to everyone and I hope, ultimately, truth will triumph.
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So strange. I guess this thread is for TB & Axiom fans while the other thread "Slayers to disband" is for Jessica/Boxer fans? Such a polarization of opinions.
To be perfectly honest, considering that TB hyped Crank's statement the way he did saying that it would dispute everything Jessica said about Crank, I thought it would provide some substantiation / chat log / details etc... Instead, its just a he said she said piece.
Axiom did great in presenting their side of the story and trying to protect one of their players who has frankly been pilloried recently (deservedly or not) but think TB way overdid it in the run-up to the statement release. Perhaps understandable given the visceral hate heaped on Crank.
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Jessica. Release the recording. Stop pretending there is truth and show us the truth since you said there is truth and that no one but you is the truth. Otherwise, stfu and stop trying to kill all your ex SlayerS players and take them down with you. She's ruining her acting career as well.
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On October 22 2012 12:14 geokilla wrote: Jessica. Release the recording. Stop pretending there is truth and show us the truth since you said there is truth and that no one but you is the truth. Otherwise, stfu and stop trying to kill all your ex SlayerS players and take them down with you. She's ruining her acting career as well.
Nah, I think that's great PR on her part. Acting production company will look at those and say "Wow, she is really resilient here. I might have a great part for her."
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On October 22 2012 12:14 geokilla wrote: Jessica. Release the recording. Stop pretending there is truth and show us the truth since you said there is truth and that no one but you is the truth. Otherwise, stfu and stop trying to kill all your ex SlayerS players and take them down with you. She's ruining her acting career as well.
Not really... Korean community is siding with her. I doubt too many in the foreign scene have even watched a single of her broadcasts.
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the overhyping, high-horse riding and raging against netizens in the other thread... and then the statement is a audio recording by TB?
Hard to neglect the warning flags...
To be perfectly honest, considering that TB hyped Crank's statement the way he did saying that it would dispute everything Jessica said about Crank, I thought it would provide some substantiation / chat log / details etc... Instead, its just a he said she said piece.
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On October 22 2012 12:16 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 12:14 geokilla wrote: Jessica. Release the recording. Stop pretending there is truth and show us the truth since you said there is truth and that no one but you is the truth. Otherwise, stfu and stop trying to kill all your ex SlayerS players and take them down with you. She's ruining her acting career as well.
Nah, I think that's great PR on her part. Acting production company will look at those and say "Wow, she is really resilient here. I might have a great part for her."
On October 22 2012 12:30 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 12:14 geokilla wrote: Jessica. Release the recording. Stop pretending there is truth and show us the truth since you said there is truth and that no one but you is the truth. Otherwise, stfu and stop trying to kill all your ex SlayerS players and take them down with you. She's ruining her acting career as well.
Not really... Korean community is siding with her. I doubt too many in the foreign scene have even watched a single of her broadcasts.
For now it might be great PR, but if she does release that recording and everything goes bad for her, it's all over for her in my opinion. From what I've seen in Kpop (not much mind you as I'm not Kpop crazy), it seems to be very easy to die off as an idol and stuff.
Korean scene siding with her, well I can't explain that because I don't know the Korean culture well, nor do I have a good idea of what's going on anymore because I haven't been updated as I can't find much on TL. Don't really want to dig through 200 pages of of threads and posts.
Don't forget that Crank told Jessica to release the audio recording. So unless Crank is absolutely confident that him and other SlayerS players are in the right and Jessica is in the wrong, the same can be said for Crank as well and his career will be over. In fact, it's already on its way to being over, thanks to Jessica.
I also want to question why Boxer is letting Jessica doing it as she pleases. If Boxer does know that he is also in the wrong, he should at least try and get Jessica to dial it back a bit imo. Things have already gone far enough. SlayerS is dead and even if they don't disband, the environment will never be the same, even before the public announcement that they are going to disband.
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Wow, this situation is disgusting.
I understand Jessica is probably upset with the situation, and that she has real reason to be in some cases, but she is quickly starting to look like a grade-A bully. Honestly, what would releasing that audio recording do other than damage another human being's reputation needlessly? Everyone involved is already reeling from the situation, why go out of the way to harm someone?
I really hope she doesn't release the recording. If she does, I hope that Crank will have some legal resources to go after her in some way. I'm not saying for a second that he is blameless or has conducted himself well, but releasing that recording would simply be a pernicious act--it won't do anything to save face for anyone involved, it won't resurrect SlayerS, but it will cause farther harm.
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To geokilla, I think you place too much importance of SC2...
Her career is not going to be affected much by whatever happens regarding Slayers. She's going to continue to host shows and play roles. She's not a lead actress but she's a fixture in the industry and has many supporting role credits. Going by what she has released so far, she has been pretty accurate in terms of what kind of "evidence" she possesses. And no, she's not a Kpop idol.
You don't have to sift through 200 pages of TL posts. Most of them are just people chatting away. Just read the releases by Jessica, ESF, Crank, Alicia, etc... Then come to your own conclusion.
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On October 22 2012 13:12 BreakfastTea wrote: Wow, this situation is disgusting.
I understand Jessica is probably upset with the situation, and that she has real reason to be in some cases, but she is quickly starting to look like a grade-A bully. Honestly, what would releasing that audio recording do other than damage another human being's reputation needlessly? Everyone involved is already reeling from the situation, why go out of the way to harm someone?
I really hope she doesn't release the recording. If she does, I hope that Crank will have some legal resources to go after her in some way. I'm not saying for a second that he is blameless or has conducted himself well, but releasing that recording would simply be a pernicious act--it won't do anything to save face for anyone involved, it won't resurrect SlayerS, but it will cause farther harm.
Well, she did say she was going to leave things and let be, but then Crank decided to release this statement. That's completely understandable since they want to salvage Crank's reputation, but if you present your side of things you might expect a response from the other party.
That's why I mentioned earlier that if, like what TB promised, this statement was supported by chat logs, or other supporting hard to refute evidence it would much better defend Crank. Instead its just a description of Crank's point of view. Informative for sure, but not what was promised nor does it accomplish much but agitate the other party, Jessica especially since its pretty critical of her.
Crank also basically said he's ok to have the audio released and there's a very distinctive difference in their respective interpretation of what happened over the phone conversation.
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On October 22 2012 13:12 BreakfastTea wrote: Wow, this situation is disgusting.
I understand Jessica is probably upset with the situation, and that she has real reason to be in some cases, but she is quickly starting to look like a grade-A bully. Honestly, what would releasing that audio recording do other than damage another human being's reputation needlessly? Everyone involved is already reeling from the situation, why go out of the way to harm someone?
I really hope she doesn't release the recording. If she does, I hope that Crank will have some legal resources to go after her in some way. I'm not saying for a second that he is blameless or has conducted himself well, but releasing that recording would simply be a pernicious act--it won't do anything to save face for anyone involved, it won't resurrect SlayerS, but it will cause farther harm.
If Crank is lying about her and Boxer, then how is it bullying to defend herself? That's ridiculous.
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pinball777
United States134 Posts
The only thing I'm curious about is Crank's medical stuff. It's been said before as that was the reason he left and he has dropped out of other things due to his injuries, yet that never has been mentioned recently. There's probably more to that, but I hope that this drama will get itself solved soon.
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On October 22 2012 00:49 Korben wrote: Am I the only one that really doesn't care about this and just wants to watch CranK play more amazing games? Nope you're not alone bro.Gl Axiom and CranK.
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On October 22 2012 14:08 pinball777 wrote: The only thing I'm curious about is Crank's medical stuff. It's been said before as that was the reason he left and he has dropped out of other things due to his injuries, yet that never has been mentioned recently. There's probably more to that, but I hope that this drama will get itself solved soon.
On October 22 2012 06:25 TotalBiscuit wrote: I would like to add one thing. There is no lie in regards to CranKs physical state. He is receiving physio for his condition and he did indeed suffer from it while in the SlayerS house. He has had this condition on record since his time at SKT1, it is not some mystery or fake illness. He suffers from flare ups, it occurred during MLG Raleigh though he hid it well and continued to play, he is currently at home resting after going in and out of hospital for this condition over tne last week, which is why he had to pull out of MvP, a tournament he was winning his bracket in I might add.
Discontent with SlayerS conditions and having to rest due to medical reasons are not mutually exclusive factors. Indeed, one aggravates the other.
On the subject of spoken statement, this is standard across the world, expect more of them and rightly so. This is a professional eSports scene, we should act the part.
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People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!)
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Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank.
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On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support?
This is what I'm thinking.
You were given the opportunity to be on a PROFESSIONAL Starcraft team; not only that but one founded and managed by the most famous person in e-sports history. If this Crank guy was so miserable, why would he not communicate this with his team and resolve things PROFESSIONALLY. It sounds like this Crank guy was depressed and made poor decisions.
I also think it's funny how BoxeR just kinda said "fuck this" in this whole situation and has been laying low.
This Jessica broad needs to stop relishing in what little attention she still has left. It seems with her career over she's milking all the attention she can. Just release all this evidence you have and be done with it. No one really cares anymore, your team is disbanded.
All I care about now, is what's on the Emperor's horizon. A new chapter awaits.
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On October 22 2012 15:58 FREEloss_ca wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:26 Soap wrote: Sorry, but this is absolutely pathetic. I cringe to think of all the hardworking koreans that would give a limb to be where he was, hell, people were sexually abused in WeRRa and this brat stands up to complain that fucking Boxer does not treat him well enough? Is this really the attitude we want to support? This is what I'm thinking. You were given the opportunity to be on a PROFESSIONAL Starcraft team; not only that but one founded and managed by the most famous person in e-sports history. If this Crank guy was so miserable, why would he not communicate this with his team and resolve things PROFESSIONALLY. It sounds like this Crank guy was depressed and made poor decisions. I also think it's funny how BoxeR just kinda said "fuck this" in this whole situation and has been laying low. This Jessica broad needs to stop relishing in what little attention she still has left. It seems with her career over she's milking all the attention she can. Just release all this evidence you have and be done with it. No one really cares anymore, your team is disbanded. All I care about now, is what's on the Emperor's horizon. A new chapter awaits.
To whoever wonders how bad Slayers situation was, think about this. Boxer is loved by many, but he also has had huge anti-fan groups who hated him. Boxer's had to deal with all kinds of bullshit ever since his PC Bang days for the past 12+ years. Everyone always praised Boxer for having a mentality being able to handle bullshits like that. He made Oov who had a VERY bad reputation in his amateur days to become a person that now a lot of people love. Now, in Slayers, it took him only 2 years to call it quits on these players. So yeah.
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On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Because you have heard it?
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On October 22 2012 17:06 gruff wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Because you have heard it?
Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words in the call to none other than Boxer himself so yeah he's going to look silly.
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Jessica is going to look silly if she doesn't release that tape in full.
Someone who really has a tape like that either releases it or leaves it in confidence. Doing otherwise is trying to hit someone below the belt and missing but the ref saw it anyway.
People treating boxer like he is some sort of prophet. He has shown a lack of interest in SC2 yet still cashes in on his name.
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On October 22 2012 17:15 Frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:06 gruff wrote:On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Because you have heard it? Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words in the call to none other than Boxer himself so yeah he's going to look silly. If this is true..... Catastrophe would be an understatement for Crank. I don't know the truth nor am I alluding to it, but when someone has a tape recording of you, you better tell the truth.
edit: eko200, low blow dude.At least get your information correct before slandering people.
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On October 22 2012 00:16 masterbreti wrote: To be honest. This almost rather confirms Jessica's side rather than disagreeing with it.
From my perspective it seems crank made a few mistakes in how to communicate with SlayerS. if he had just been honest with her from day 1 and told her he wants to leave the team and stream etc. She would say yes, like she had done with Taeja, Ganzi, Sleep, and many other former SlayerS players, She had even gone so far as to help other SlayerS players find a new team (Clide and KT).
I think if he was honest with her, things would have been different, but he wasn't. He wanted to make money, although not a competely horrible thing, he didn't communicate with people and burned bridges instead of keeping them up.
I think this makes Crank look really bad when it comes to business and makes him not very smart in hoiw he deals with people.
If people have to look at this and disagree with Jessica based on this alone, then thats rather crazy since Crank confirms a lot of what Jessica is saying. You have a good point there. And as someone before said: "Oh I left the team and now I'm alone and have no money, well shit... I guess I need a new team after all."
Crank hasn't acted properly either, but I guess Boxer and Jessica didn't act accordingly either, blaming all their players. So it's still somewhere in between.
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On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different.
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On October 22 2012 17:15 Frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:06 gruff wrote:On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Because you have heard it? Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words in the call to none other than Boxer himself so yeah he's going to look silly.
No he won't and I'm going to say this again,
You folks feel so entitled to everything when in reality they don't owe you anything. At all.
Get off your high horses. You're very lucky (if I can even call it that?) to get what you get.
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Really professional of TB to release this statement. Nice job
Hopefully this drama can be put behind everyone and they can all move forwards...
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On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different.
On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!)
To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it.
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Thanks for sharing that - That interview is actually very good.
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The drama just won't end in peace =(
I don't think the "58 minute phone call" has been released yet, but when it is released, it's not going to end well for anybody. Bad call from CranK to release his statement at this time in that manner, unless he clearly remembered the entire phone call and made a calculated move.
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On October 22 2012 23:09 Kenny_oro wrote:Thanks for sharing that - That interview is actually very good. Yup, basically he is not afraid of her releasing the audio recording. Now Jessica can do one of two things 1) release the tape, but base on how confident Crank is on that audio recording and how his words got twisted, I am sure its not as bad as she said. 2) Not release the tape because Crank didn't say stuff that is as serious as what Jessica said, Aka a empty threat. She might cite her "feelings" for MMA alicia and ryung so she won't release the tape as it might implicate them.
Guess we will find out soon, I am sure Jessica won't keep quiet after this interview
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Wow, in this interview we learn that the upper management just did nothing at all, they transfered all the responsabilities to the players. This is incredible. I mean it was up to Crank to do the schedule work for foreign team leagues like IPTL or EGTL, what the hell. And then they blame their players haha. I always suspected that such a failure couldn't have happened with a competent management, but now this is clear : there wasn't any management in Slayers anymore.
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On October 22 2012 23:28 MrCon wrote: Wow, in this interview we learn that the upper management just did nothing at all, they transfered all the responsabilities to the players. This is incredible. I mean it was up to Crank to do the schedule work for foreign team leagues like IPTL or EGTL, what the hell. And then they blame their players haha. I always suspected that such a failure couldn't have happened with a competent management, but now this is clear : there wasn't any management in Slayers anymore. Are you korean? can you translate what they meant by "upper management"? I am quite confused with this phrase, does it mean the coaches? Or the sponsors and boxer,Jessica etc?
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On October 22 2012 23:28 MrCon wrote: Wow, in this interview we learn that the upper management just did nothing at all, they transfered all the responsabilities to the players. This is incredible. I mean it was up to Crank to do the schedule work for foreign team leagues like IPTL or EGTL, what the hell. And then they blame their players haha. I always suspected that such a failure couldn't have happened with a competent management, but now this is clear : there wasn't any management in Slayers anymore. That's just Crank's side of the story, so it's hardly reasonable to say everything is clear based purely on that. It's still just a matter of whose side of the story you believe or more likely the truth is somewhere in between. Certainly it appears easier to believe Crank's side of the story as he just feels more candid even though I obviously don't know him at all. It's not, however, easy to believe that Boxer didn't care at all about the team.
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The perfect analogy would be an hospital director who'd hire a blind surgeon. Then when the blind surgeon kills a patient, the director takes no responsibilities because he wasn't the one handling the scalpel.
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Come on, no need to hear "the other side of the story" to know that letting a player arrange the schedules is wrong. It's not his job. Basically the team had a lot of problems, then they asked the players to take charge instead of acting like managers, and now they blame the players for not doing the job they were supposed to do themselves. It's obvious Boxer wasn't involved in the team anymore, because if he had none of this could have happened.
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On October 22 2012 23:33 MrCon wrote: The perfect analogy would be an hospital director who'd hire a blind surgeon. Then when the blind surgeon kills a patient, the director takes no responsibilities because he wasn't the one handling the scalpel. Ahhh...so its like the coaches left the players to die on their own when they are in trouble? okay thanks, I thought it had to do with sponsors
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On October 22 2012 23:40 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 23:33 MrCon wrote: The perfect analogy would be an hospital director who'd hire a blind surgeon. Then when the blind surgeon kills a patient, the director takes no responsibilities because he wasn't the one handling the scalpel. Ahhh...so its like the coaches left the players to die on their own when they are in trouble? okay thanks, I thought it had to do with sponsors Ho no I meant the coaches, and certainly also Jessica and Boxer. Boxer has such an aura (and for good reason) that if he was involved in the team I don't think the problems could have escalated like that. My personal theory is that Boxer was already in negotiations with SKT when Clide was transferred there so he wasn't into managing the team anymore, Jessica has her career and don't have enough time to take care of the day to day operations of a team, so when coach Ryu was hired by a Kespa team everything started to fall apart. I respect Cella but he's too young to handle a team (especially at a "human" level ; multiple young males living together need a lot of work to not fall apart, and this has to be handled, and this is a full time job) I have a hard time believing that Boxer and Jessica don't know how life works enough to think that giving responsibilities to players (especially to a guy like Crank who isn't even a 1st generation Slayers player) could work. You can't blame a player for failing at management, when you're the one who should manage.
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On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different.
Nope, it's only illegal to record a call if neither party is aware of it. In the US, only one party needs to be aware that a call is being recorded.
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Whatever...
This discussion will never end pretty since Jessica will never concede, and neither will anyone else. Let's just hope that the Cynical CranK can get well and kick some SC2-ass!
Edit: The "Whatever" comment was to all the speculation and pointless discussion in the thread.. I liked the original statement from TB/CranK. I think all sides tries very hard to be in "right" and the truth is somewhere in the middle..
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On October 22 2012 21:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 17:15 Frost wrote:On October 22 2012 17:06 gruff wrote:On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Because you have heard it? Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words in the call to none other than Boxer himself so yeah he's going to look silly. No he won't and I'm going to say this again, You folks feel so entitled to everything when in reality they don't owe you anything. At all. Get off your high horses. You're very lucky (if I can even call it that?) to get what you get.
Explain to me how I feel so entitled to everything.
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On October 22 2012 22:35 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!) To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it.
Actually it is illegal in at least 3 EU countries and probably even more. In this case, It does not really matter whether is illegal or if the recording even exist. Since this is an extortion not a justice system ordered evidence. (And I am talking about recording it. Revealing such recording is whole different matter.)
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On October 23 2012 01:28 Frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 21:35 StarStruck wrote:On October 22 2012 17:15 Frost wrote:On October 22 2012 17:06 gruff wrote:On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank. Because you have heard it? Jessica's already hinted at Crank using very inappropriate words in the call to none other than Boxer himself so yeah he's going to look silly. No he won't and I'm going to say this again, You folks feel so entitled to everything when in reality they don't owe you anything. At all. Get off your high horses. You're very lucky (if I can even call it that?) to get what you get. Explain to me how I feel so entitled to everything.
Maybe he is disturbed by your psychic abilities and feels that you are abusing your superiority. I consider such reaction to be understandable if an insecure man meets a psychic reader that knows what Jessica has not yet said or released. I am not apologizing for him, but I am trying to introduce the fact that your statement could be a cause for emotional trauma.
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On October 23 2012 02:58 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 22:35 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different. On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!) To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it. Actually it is illegal in at least 3 EU countries and probably even more. In this case, It does not really matter whether is illegal or if the recording even exist. Since this is an extortion not a justice system ordered evidence. (And I am talking about recording it. Revealing such recording is whole different matter.)
Name them please, makes it easier for me to look up and fact check it, instead of going through 27 of them. Also, didn't I say "nearly every"?
It's not an extortion as she's not asking for money or other goods or services. Neither can you say so, because you don't know whether it's unlawful to do so in S-Korea, if it's lawfully obtained it's not extortion.
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After reading the translated interview and noticing the many "incomplete" sentences I have come to the conclusion that any transcript of the phone call will be useless to non-Koreans because of the necessary translation. Just look at my signature and acknowledge the importance of precise words to make things seem one way or the other. Words arent the only important thing about a phone call, because the pronounciation makes a huge difference as well.
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On October 23 2012 03:14 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 02:58 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 22 2012 22:35 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different. On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!) To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it. Actually it is illegal in at least 3 EU countries and probably even more. In this case, It does not really matter whether is illegal or if the recording even exist. Since this is an extortion not a justice system ordered evidence. (And I am talking about recording it. Revealing such recording is whole different matter.) Name them please, makes it easier for me to look up and fact check it, instead of going through 27 of them. Also, didn't I say "nearly every"? It's not an extortion as she's not asking for money or other goods or services. Neither can you say so, because you don't know whether it's unlawful to do so in S-Korea, if it's lawfully obtained it's not extortion.
CZ, SK and Poland. I have contracted a lawyer in those countries in order to investigate this matter. Since I conduct business affairs there. In all three cases I was instructed to reveal the fact that I am recording the conversation, otherwise it is not legally obtained. I suspect it is illegal in other EU countries as well, but I have no evidence of that. I feel obliged to say that this is not a legal advice and people should not trust what they read on a public forum.
Yes she is asking for service. She is asking for him to do something he does not want to do and she is threating him with exposure of such recording. That is an extortion. I am not saying whether it is legal, moral or just. That is a pure speculation on your part. EDIT: I only mentioned that the discussion whether it is legal or illegal in Korea is irrelevant since this is not a matter of justice. This is a matter of releasing public statements involving 3 or more parties.
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On October 23 2012 03:29 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:14 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 02:58 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 22 2012 22:35 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different. On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!) To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it. Actually it is illegal in at least 3 EU countries and probably even more. In this case, It does not really matter whether is illegal or if the recording even exist. Since this is an extortion not a justice system ordered evidence. (And I am talking about recording it. Revealing such recording is whole different matter.) Name them please, makes it easier for me to look up and fact check it, instead of going through 27 of them. Also, didn't I say "nearly every"? It's not an extortion as she's not asking for money or other goods or services. Neither can you say so, because you don't know whether it's unlawful to do so in S-Korea, if it's lawfully obtained it's not extortion. CZ, SK and Poland. I have contracted a lawyer in those countries in order to investigate this matter. Since I conduct business affairs there. In all three cases I was instructed to reveal the fact that I am recording the conversation, otherwise it is not legally obtained. I suspect it is illegal in other EU countries as well, but I have no evidence of that. I feel obliged to say that this is not a legal advice and people should not trust what they read on a public forum.Yes she is asking for service. She is asking for him to do something he does not want to do and she is threating him with exposure of such recording. That is an extortion. I am not saying whether it is legal, moral or just. That is a pure speculation on your part.
Alright.
Apart from the fact that the Regional Court in Brno confirmed that it still regards RPM agreements to be agreements that distort competition, the most interesting part of the reasoning is that in which the court extensively analyses the question of the legality of a recording of a telephone call, made privately and secretly, as evidence of anti-competitive practices. When considering the admissibility of such evidence, the Regional Court believes it necessary to also consider who made the recording, i.e., whether it was made by an administrative authority or a private person. The reason for this general differentiation is that Czech law does not provide any legal basis for public authorities to make secret audio-visual recordings for the purpose of administrative proceedings where such recordings interfere with the “private lives” of individuals. Public authorities making such recordings to be used as evidence is absolutely unacceptable; thus, a piece of evidence obtained in this manner would be unlawful.
Guess what, apperantly it is legal for a private person to make a recording privately in CZ. Please try again.
Asking someone to quit lying or otherwise posting because you have evidence to the contrary and are willing to release it if he continues is not asking for a service.
ex·tor·tion [ik-stawr-shuhn] Show IPA noun 1. an act or instance of extorting. 2. Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority. 3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers. 4. anything extorted.
I suggest you also look up what 'service' means, especially in law context.
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On October 23 2012 03:40 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:29 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 23 2012 03:14 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 02:58 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 22 2012 22:35 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different. On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!) To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it. Actually it is illegal in at least 3 EU countries and probably even more. In this case, It does not really matter whether is illegal or if the recording even exist. Since this is an extortion not a justice system ordered evidence. (And I am talking about recording it. Revealing such recording is whole different matter.) Name them please, makes it easier for me to look up and fact check it, instead of going through 27 of them. Also, didn't I say "nearly every"? It's not an extortion as she's not asking for money or other goods or services. Neither can you say so, because you don't know whether it's unlawful to do so in S-Korea, if it's lawfully obtained it's not extortion. CZ, SK and Poland. I have contracted a lawyer in those countries in order to investigate this matter. Since I conduct business affairs there. In all three cases I was instructed to reveal the fact that I am recording the conversation, otherwise it is not legally obtained. I suspect it is illegal in other EU countries as well, but I have no evidence of that. I feel obliged to say that this is not a legal advice and people should not trust what they read on a public forum.Yes she is asking for service. She is asking for him to do something he does not want to do and she is threating him with exposure of such recording. That is an extortion. I am not saying whether it is legal, moral or just. That is a pure speculation on your part. Alright. Show nested quote +Apart from the fact that the Regional Court in Brno confirmed that it still regards RPM agreements to be agreements that distort competition, the most interesting part of the reasoning is that in which the court extensively analyses the question of the legality of a recording of a telephone call, made privately and secretly, as evidence of anti-competitive practices. When considering the admissibility of such evidence, the Regional Court believes it necessary to also consider who made the recording, i.e., whether it was made by an administrative authority or a private person. The reason for this general differentiation is that Czech law does not provide any legal basis for public authorities to make secret audio-visual recordings for the purpose of administrative proceedings where such recordings interfere with the “private lives” of individuals. Public authorities making such recordings to be used as evidence is absolutely unacceptable; thus, a piece of evidence obtained in this manner would be unlawful. Guess what, apperantly it is legal for a private person to make a recording privately in CZ. Please try again. Asking someone to quit lying or otherwise posting because you have evidence to the contrary and are willing to release it if he continues is not asking for a service. Show nested quote +ex·tor·tion [ik-stawr-shuhn] Show IPA noun 1. an act or instance of extorting. 2. Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority. 3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers. 4. anything extorted. I suggest you also look up what 'service' means, especially in law context.
I will just give you 2 points to consider:
A) Statement about a court decision has no relevance on actual legal system. (Not every country acknowledges precedents) Only legal advice (at best) is that public administration cannot record such conversation. It does not specify under what circumstances it would legal to do so in a private conversation.
B) I said that I made no statement about the legality of such extortion therefore any argument whether it was legal or not is irrelevant. That includes the meaning of the term service in whatever country. (And whether he is lying or slanderous is for a court to decide. It is not a matter of pissing contest of who has the biggest recoding. Since it could be the other way around and Jessica was lying. It is a nasty presumption)
Besides these points the whole discussion is getting out of hand and I am not willing to discuss specifics since it is nor the place nor do I have any legal council with me. I am afraid if you want to continue discussing in such manner I am not a person that could do so at this time (Read: I am not trusting your at your word at this time. :D )
Still I appreciate the calm and constructive manner of your responses and I enjoyed it.
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On October 22 2012 15:56 Frost wrote: Well, Biscuit's going to look silly IF Jessica decides to release that 58 minute recorded call between Boxer, Jessica, and Crank.
It's a shame people don't bother to listen to our statement. We said that CranK is not embarrassed about the contents of that recording and we already know it exists.
So tell me again how we're going to "look silly". We are not threatened by the existence of that recording
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On October 23 2012 04:08 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 03:40 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 03:29 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 23 2012 03:14 Shival wrote:On October 23 2012 02:58 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:On October 22 2012 22:35 Shival wrote:On October 22 2012 20:43 Dakure wrote:On October 22 2012 02:56 kuan888 wrote:On October 21 2012 21:29 megacrack wrote: this is somewhat of a translation i did of that jessicas statement.. even though it in a rough form, it will give u somewhat to read over till someone do a professional translating:
im current in Thailand filming with a deadly schedule. i really wanted to forget and rest but you dont let me be. i saw what cranks team had to say. 1.you said you were going to prove that what i wrote in the initial statement was wrong. you have to specify where i got it wrong and you have to prove to your best of abilities. 2. you heard cranks point of view and posted a statement (recording) based on his view, if you didnt do proper research on what is truth and what is wrong and just posted that up, you got to be ready for your consequences. like the trickster, fruitdealer incident where the team only listened to their players for example. 3.while im at thailand working i double checked the recording between crank, boxer and i that goes for 57 minutes and 48 seconds. if axiom does not provide proper evidence and keep on pushing that crank is in the wrong, i will provide this recording in front of media, myself and coach cella. if i only small portion of the recording, there maybe people thinking that it may be manipulated, so i will provide the whole file. 4. ill tell you this story has crank and 3 other people involved, truthfully, even the parts that i do not want to show because of the good bond and bad bond ( korean saying) that we had before, will be shown. so for the other people involved i want you to think carefully. 5.if crank goes on about anything other than what i wrote, like my personality, my other social attributes, or creating rumors my agency and i will treat this very seriously.
i will make sure and as soon as i arrive to korea i will start planning.. i will arrive in korea on monday 8:10am and have another shooting at 10am so i will finish late at night. i will make adjustments with the journalists for time schduling . i want to forget everything and forgive, but people cannot see this. im not doing this because i want to do thi, but im doing the way crank wants it to be.
to whoever can translate this, please send it to cranks team
Wow she record all her phone calls...?! Isn't that illegal in some countries? I think it is in the US.. Or well, it might not be allowed in court. Not sure. But maybe Korean laws are different. On October 22 2012 15:28 Roflhaxx wrote: People need to learn to take 'proof' (screenshots etc) with a grain of salt because the only part that you see is the accusers side of things. Things can easily be taken out of context, manipulated etc. An example of this could be that (lets just say for a moment) that crank and boxer squared up during the last 2 minutes of the conversation. Jessica (since she is the only one who actually records audio logs, wtf. Isn't that illegal anyways?) could just leave out the last 2 minutes. Besides, she has proven herself crazy with these crusades against people. (I wouldnt be surprised if I got lashed at too!) To stop unsubstantiated claims on this let me tell you how it is in nearly every civilized country. It's illegal for a third party to record audio logs of phone calls without a court order (there's a few exceptions to this, but not relevant right now). However if one of the parties that are having a phone call records the conversations it's not illegal, even if the other party doesn't know about it. Actually it is illegal in at least 3 EU countries and probably even more. In this case, It does not really matter whether is illegal or if the recording even exist. Since this is an extortion not a justice system ordered evidence. (And I am talking about recording it. Revealing such recording is whole different matter.) Name them please, makes it easier for me to look up and fact check it, instead of going through 27 of them. Also, didn't I say "nearly every"? It's not an extortion as she's not asking for money or other goods or services. Neither can you say so, because you don't know whether it's unlawful to do so in S-Korea, if it's lawfully obtained it's not extortion. CZ, SK and Poland. I have contracted a lawyer in those countries in order to investigate this matter. Since I conduct business affairs there. In all three cases I was instructed to reveal the fact that I am recording the conversation, otherwise it is not legally obtained. I suspect it is illegal in other EU countries as well, but I have no evidence of that. I feel obliged to say that this is not a legal advice and people should not trust what they read on a public forum.Yes she is asking for service. She is asking for him to do something he does not want to do and she is threating him with exposure of such recording. That is an extortion. I am not saying whether it is legal, moral or just. That is a pure speculation on your part. Alright. Apart from the fact that the Regional Court in Brno confirmed that it still regards RPM agreements to be agreements that distort competition, the most interesting part of the reasoning is that in which the court extensively analyses the question of the legality of a recording of a telephone call, made privately and secretly, as evidence of anti-competitive practices. When considering the admissibility of such evidence, the Regional Court believes it necessary to also consider who made the recording, i.e., whether it was made by an administrative authority or a private person. The reason for this general differentiation is that Czech law does not provide any legal basis for public authorities to make secret audio-visual recordings for the purpose of administrative proceedings where such recordings interfere with the “private lives” of individuals. Public authorities making such recordings to be used as evidence is absolutely unacceptable; thus, a piece of evidence obtained in this manner would be unlawful. Guess what, apperantly it is legal for a private person to make a recording privately in CZ. Please try again. Asking someone to quit lying or otherwise posting because you have evidence to the contrary and are willing to release it if he continues is not asking for a service. ex·tor·tion [ik-stawr-shuhn] Show IPA noun 1. an act or instance of extorting. 2. Law . the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority. 3. oppressive or illegal exaction, as of excessive price or interest: the extortions of usurers. 4. anything extorted. I suggest you also look up what 'service' means, especially in law context. I will just give you 2 points to consider: A) Statement about a court decision has no relevance on actual legal system. (Not every country acknowledges precedents) Only legal advice (at best) is that public administration cannot record such conversation. It does not specify under what circumstances it would legal to do so in a private conversation. B) I said that I made no statement about the legality of such extortion therefore any argument whether it was legal or not is irrelevant. That includes the meaning of the term service in whatever country. Besides these point the whole discussion is getting out of hand and I am not willing to discuss specifics since it is nor the place nor do I have any legal council with me. I am afraid if you want to continue discussing in such manner I am not a person that could do so at this time Still I appreciate the calm and constructive manner of your responses and I enjoyed it.
I don't mind, it's just disappointing that you disagree on the basis of supposed legal council that you've had, while not willing to continue said discussion. I'd also like to mention that it would be quite difficult for me to read and/or obtain legal documentation in a language that is readable for me. I'd like to stress that the excerpt I showed you is from a legal firm that operates in CZ and explicitly states it's allowed to record private telephone conversations. (Stated in May 2012, so it's relevant information).
I value a prominent legal firms' own articles it brings out for the people to read as much as legal council.
On to your second point, I don't care about legality or not, it simply is no extortion in any way you turn it. Asking for cease and desist on grounds of releasing evidence otherwise is extortion nowadays? If she asked Crank to write "I am a lying bastard" 200 times on his twitter.. then I would agree that it was extortion, as she's asking a service.
Also, I'm not entirely sure if that last comment is entirely honest, or just a final snide comment. I hope it is the first.
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On October 23 2012 04:20 Shival wrote: I don't mind, it's just disappointing that you disagree on the basis of supposed legal council that you've had, while not willing to continue said discussion. I'd also like to mention that it would be quite difficult for me to read and/or obtain legal documentation in a language that is readable for me. I'd like to stress that the excerpt I showed you is from a legal firm that operates in CZ and explicitly states it's allowed to record private telephone conversations. (Stated in May 2012, so it's relevant information). I value a prominent legal firms' own articles it brings out for the people to read as much as legal council.
It is very difficult to solve such situations even with legal council. I completely understand that it is next to impossible to do so from another country. It comes down to specifics like whether it is an automated recording that starts disregarding what the second party is. That is why I am not willing to pursue it further without having a experienced source of knowledge (Aka as good lawyer :D).
On October 23 2012 04:20 Shival wrote: On to your second point, I don't care about legality or not, it simply is no extortion in any way you turn it. Asking for cease and desist on grounds of releasing evidence otherwise is extortion nowadays? If she asked Crank to write "I am a lying bastard" 200 times on his twitter.. then I would agree that it was extortion, as she's asking a service.
Well I disagree that it was a simple cease and desist message. But that is my opinion based upon an translation so it is honestly open to whatever situation. But I do have more experiences with this as blowing smoke than it being a poorly constructed: "I advice you to stop your slander or we will provide recording as proof to adequate law enforcement.". It is unfortunately common practice to use this in order to scare people into submission (as to my experience).
On October 23 2012 04:20 Shival wrote: Also, I'm not entirely sure if that last comment is entirely honest, or just a final snide comment. I hope it is the first.
It was honest. Since the scene blew up public forums are a real nightmare to read. Having a real talk (pun intended) with somebody is very refreshing.
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On October 23 2012 04:31 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 04:20 Shival wrote: I don't mind, it's just disappointing that you disagree on the basis of supposed legal council that you've had, while not willing to continue said discussion. I'd also like to mention that it would be quite difficult for me to read and/or obtain legal documentation in a language that is readable for me. I'd like to stress that the excerpt I showed you is from a legal firm that operates in CZ and explicitly states it's allowed to record private telephone conversations. (Stated in May 2012, so it's relevant information). I value a prominent legal firms' own articles it brings out for the people to read as much as legal council.
It is very difficult to solve such situations even with legal council. I completely understand that it is next to impossible to do so from another country. It comes down to specifics like whether it is an automated recording that starts disregarding what the second party is. That is why I am not willing to pursue it further without having a experienced source of knowledge (Aka as good lawyer :D). Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 04:20 Shival wrote: On to your second point, I don't care about legality or not, it simply is no extortion in any way you turn it. Asking for cease and desist on grounds of releasing evidence otherwise is extortion nowadays? If she asked Crank to write "I am a lying bastard" 200 times on his twitter.. then I would agree that it was extortion, as she's asking a service.
Well I disagree that it was a simple cease and desist message. But that is my opinion based upon an translation so it is honestly open to whatever situation. But I do have more experiences with this as blowing smoke than it being a poorly constructed: "I advice you to stop your slander or we will provide recording as proof to adequate law enforcement.". It is unfortunately common practice to use this in order to scare people into submission (as to my experience). Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 04:20 Shival wrote: Also, I'm not entirely sure if that last comment is entirely honest, or just a final snide comment. I hope it is the first.
It was honest. Since the scene blew up public forums are a real nightmare to read. Having a real talk (pun intended) with somebody is very refreshing.
Haha, alright I see your point.
I agree that it's nice to have a conversation like this instead of what I've previously been having in these threads.
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Legal in Canada to record calls without letting other party know.
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OH look. Sorry for being a psychic as mentioned by someone above for saying TB will look silly for supporting Crank who, as I have just seen the text of the recorded call, is one disrespectful, lying kid.
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On October 23 2012 08:51 Frost wrote: OH look. Sorry for being a psychic as mentioned by someone above for saying TB will look silly for supporting Crank who, as I have just seen the text of the recorded call, is one disrespectful, lying kid.
Source?
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And crank looks like crap again, this keeps getting better and better. TB is Crank disputing the way the phone call was transcribed?
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Actually, the phone call does absolutely nothing but corroborate what Crank said already + make Crank look bad for disrespect. It's just that Jessica released it, so people think it's actually a big deal and supports her position when it's ... not. I mean, aside from the disrespect, I suppose, but in terms of hard facts, there is nothing in there that Crank didn't already cover.
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Don't get me wrong I understand that it isn't anything huge, but the biggest blow may be the disrespect itself, at least in Korea.
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United States32419 Posts
I'm willing to believe that Crank thinks he was honest, that he really had no intent to 'ditch' SlayerS to seek fame and fortune abroad. But in effect, if what ended up happening looks exactly like that, how can Jessica be blamed for feeling betrayed? Which is not to say that I believe Jessica was justified for going nuclear with this entire situation, but there is definitely fault on Crank's part as well.
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Just read the released phone conversation log regarding that "58 minute call". Looks summarized but article states to have all important facts in it at the best of the reporter's ability. Korean Source
My impression... Crank has victim mentality issues, maybe augmented by the situation he's in. If nothing's up by the next hour or two maybe I'll do a full translation.
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On October 23 2012 10:28 Jaaaaasper wrote: And crank looks like crap again, this keeps getting better and better. TB is Crank disputing the way the phone call was transcribed?
We're not interested in commenting on drama for dramas sake, since it's literally killing eSports. We made a statement for a reason and we stand by that statement. It's as simple as that.
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On October 23 2012 12:25 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 10:28 Jaaaaasper wrote: And crank looks like crap again, this keeps getting better and better. TB is Crank disputing the way the phone call was transcribed? We're not interested in commenting on drama for dramas sake, since it's literally killing eSports. We made a statement for a reason and we stand by that statement. It's as simple as that.
You might want to chill on the other threads though. No disrespect but at this point some people are practically baiting you and getting the response they want. If you think Jessica overreacted, then shouldn't you take a deep breath and show that you do things differently?
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I fullheartly agree with your opinion, instead of looking to blame others, as management you should always start with yourself and then look further.
Instead all we read is finger pointing at others and not a single bit of self reflection. If you want to manage a team you also have to take responsibility in account be it good or bad.
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On October 23 2012 13:00 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 12:25 TotalBiscuit wrote:On October 23 2012 10:28 Jaaaaasper wrote: And crank looks like crap again, this keeps getting better and better. TB is Crank disputing the way the phone call was transcribed? We're not interested in commenting on drama for dramas sake, since it's literally killing eSports. We made a statement for a reason and we stand by that statement. It's as simple as that. You might want to chill on the other threads though. No disrespect but at this point some people are practically baiting you and getting the response they want. If you think Jessica overreacted, then shouldn't you take a deep breath and show that you do things differently? Don't you think he is already behaving differently from Jessica? Jessica is shitting on the careers of her former players, TB is defending his own player by placing his own name on the line for a player he has gotten less then 4 months (Not sure when crank join axiom but should be within this time frame I think)
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I just dont understand this whole drama, and Koreans overall.
Manager accusing players of disrespect, looking for a chace to join foreigner team etc. Is it some sort of "crime"?. Unless they are going to sue each other, whats the point?
Im glad TB made that statement to support one of his players.
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On October 23 2012 08:51 Frost wrote: OH look. Sorry for being a psychic as mentioned by someone above for saying TB will look silly for supporting Crank who, as I have just seen the text of the recorded call, is one disrespectful, lying kid. From the transcript I see it exactly the opposite way. Jessica and Boxer are not understanding that a manager ultimately has the responsibility for the team and Boxer didnt seem to take "his job" seriously at all while Jessica blames everyone except herself.
The fault on Crank's side could only be to change his mind after going home (which is interpreted as "lying" by Jessica and Boxer) for his neck problems and then noticing that he has to make money somehow. Both sides seem to agree that Crank said something about the problems of the players, but the managers didnt do anything and losing all of their sponsors really shows that something was rotten in that department anyways. So Crank might share a tiny bit of the blame, but only the blame of "pulling the trigger" (unintentionally) for the implosion of the team.
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The call means absolutely nothing, same as the original statement from Crank. We are grasping for straws just because the truth is too obstructed.
This could still go either way. Since the call is not the complete affair. It also hangs on Jessicas word a that is as questionable as Cranks. Do you even remember how she wanted to sue the internet?
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Totalbiscuit means Waytoocool in my language
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1. I can't stress how good it is to provide wirtten transcript of the video. I hate so much when some infromation is given only in audio (can't listen anywhere, much slower than reading).
2. I just wish everyone was so straightforward and reasonable as TotalBiscuit in dealing with things. This is all just a childish dispute full of unreasonable acts. hen TB comes in and says "we stand by the player no matter what" - I applaud to that!
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On October 23 2012 22:21 [NSL]BansheeHero wrote:The call means absolutely nothing, same as the original statement from Crank. We are grasping for straws just because the truth is too obstructed. This could still go either way. Since the call is not the complete affair. It also hangs on Jessicas word a that is as questionable as Cranks. Do you even remember how she wanted to sue the internet?
What's wrong with that? As you might remember she was protecting Eve at the time, whose pictures were being posted on top of porn pictures. There's a law in South Korea that forbids these things on the internet and thus she's fully in the right to sue those persons that did such a thing. Please read up on a subject before ridiculing someone please.
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Just another case of bad PR/slander from Jessica. This is fun. I am sorry slayers disbanded, since from now on Jessica cannot make such amusing mistakes :D
Source:https://twitter.com/MitchellChris/status/260576184121831424
Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell @MitchellChris @SC2_MMA Corporation R did have an interest in a personal sponsorship with you. Just to reassure you. Reply Retweet Favorite 7 Retweets 4 Favorites Daniel Alexander Aaron 최강보라매 BedrocKness Elevenapm Drew Holt-Kentwell Min Soo Park (박민수) Michael Moon John Carson Powers 4:59 AM - 23 Oct 12 · Tweet text Reply to @MitchellChris @SC2_MMA Image will appear as a link 8h Goro Shigeno Goro Shigeno @Goro87 @MitchellChris But the million dollar question is what happened to mma's personal sponsorship?Did it go to boxer like MMA thought?Withdrawn? Details 8h Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell @MitchellChris @Goro87 It was rejected. Details 8h Goro Shigeno Goro Shigeno @Goro87 @MitchellChris Oh boy now there's opening a can of worms. Rejected by who, manager J or Jessica? That ? is a key part of drama. Details 8h Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell @MitchellChris @Goro87 Jessica. Details 8h Goro Shigeno Goro Shigeno @Goro87 @MitchellChris Thanks for the answer! I'd run and hide now if I were you before Jessica catches wind of this. Details 8h Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell @MitchellChris @Goro87 I'd prefer if the drama ends, but i just wanted to clarify that MMA's statement on this was legit. Details 8h Kwanghee Woo Kwanghee Woo @SaintSnorlax @MitchellChris @Goro87 Jessica DIRECTLY? Or someone acting on her/slayers management's behalf? Details 7h Chris Mitchell Chris Mitchell @MitchellChris @SaintSnorlax @Goro87 Directly, although god knows how my English was translated to Korean.
Michal Blicharz @mbCARMAC
Publishing private correspondence to strengthen your position in a random internet dispute is undignified and says a lot about you.
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One thing I'm forced to imply, is that CranK initially said he did not join a foreign team for money.
In his statement, he is saying that he did not have monetary support and couldn't even ask his parents for help. Therefore he joined Axiom.
Tell me, legally, isn't there a contrast in his statements? Firstly it was "No, it was not about money", and then "I had no monetary support...". He did say he joined for money as he's 24 with no job.
CranK can be sued legally if Jessica can prove her loss. He is in trouble for lying and deception.
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Damn, TotalBiscuit uses wall of text. It's super effective!
Good to see a statement though. I was wondering what Axiom's stance on the Crank-SlayerS drama was.
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Axiom+Crank+Ryung > Slayers (Jessica)
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