If it could be proven 100% that Zerg is half a race then maybe Blizzard would finally acknowledge the problem that the players have always pointed out, which is that Zerg are either philosophically broken or incomplete.
If I were to make a claim of imbalance on zerg's behalf based on perception, I would say that the reason why zerg is inferior is because they start out with an overlord. There are two arguments to support a player's freedom of not starting with an overlord.
A. ) The enemy does not start with a pylon or depot B.) The game acts like vision would be so useful to zerg because they actually have a philosophy, but if zerg are not philosophically complete in the first place then the vision is not as important to them.
So if zerg could start with 2 hatchery and no overlord, would it be more preferable? First question would be, would it be possible?
If hatcheries are 2 supply each then starting off with 2 hatchery would yield 4 supply. With 4 supply, zerg could start out with 4 drones properly. Even with out starting overlord, this could still keep 4 pool zergling rush in the game.
You can't have zerg start out with 2 bases at different expansions though. So the 2 starting hatcheries would have to be combined together in to something that could be called a "primal hatchery" . It could yield 4 supply, produce larva twice as fast and produce super drones that cost 100 minerals, take twice as long to produce and carry twice as many minerals when harvesting. Each drone costing 2 supply would then mean that zerg would start with 2 super drones. This is so that the saturation potential could be as much as double, as though zerg really were starting with 2 hatchery.
Because this all could work just fine, it begins my argument for why zerg is half a race as currently is. And to that I have written in the past on the matter.
I've been an avid writer of starcraft and the mystery behind zerg balance for probably 14 years now, and I never thought that my writings would ever progress in to the reasonable ideas and considerations that I have achieved today which can be seen in my short post history on this account.
I also thought that there would be more certain or concrete solutions, which don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I believe there are... but it's definitely been a journey which has been difficult to escape that motif of "another way of looking at it"
And on this thread I hope to provide just that with the hope that really what we and Blizzard can appreciate together is an aspiration for what is beautiful.
The lowest numerical clean cut interpretation of the Golden Ratio is 2.5 / 4 This could actually be the basis for a theory that starcraft is not actually a game of 3 races, but a game of 2.5 races where as another game from blizz is a game of 4 COMPLETE races. Are Zerg different enough to identify as a half a race? Their alternating production between offense and economy may suggest that when compared to the other races. Does a half alternating production race work? In my opinion it can work if the philosophy of the race is nailed down. This references back to the classic wisdom of play that was viral between the better players of its day, "don't make units unless you are going to use them". Zerg, a lot of times felt as a victim of this philosophy because it was more critical for them to do this. So much so that it felt like zerg's tech buildings should have had no production duration which would have been justified by the duration production of the tiers, hatchery, lair, hive. But rather on the initial hatchery level, a diminishing reduction of production time for tech buildings depending on the amount of hatcheries zerg has. Such as each additional hatchery cutting the production time of tier 1 tech buildings in half.
This would have established zerg's critical philosophy as one of "Do not make buildings unless you are going to use them"
I consider this idea a Macro Philosophy relative to a "reactionary" playstyle. But what if zerg wants to play an aggressive playstyle? I would refer to that as a Micro Philosophy. If zerg are especially to not make units unless they are going to use them then what about the consideration of addressing their potential issues through the means of sacrifice which seems so relevant to zerg?
Combine the other race's elements to achieve something unique, such as zealot charge and terran stimpack. The zergling leaps at the target and the collision sacrifices all of its life as damage output down to a remaining 1 hp for the zergling. The beauty of this lies in an expression. "One, Many Zergling" Pertaining to the overmind, in to "Many Zergling, One" pertaining to the zerglings remaining with 1 hp left. Imagine if all the remaining zerglings with 1 hp would all become spirit linked and could all be killed at once with 1 attack? Such a pure representation of both the swarm and the overmind together....
Considering wc__3, archers, the weakest warriors in wc__3 comparable to zerglings. Where are the zerglings that jump up on top of scourges, combining their life pool amounts and using the scourges as ground level surf boards to targets
This wc3 remark is to just be a smart a** in terms of pointing out what seems could be a very clear missing element to zerg.
Other Posts Discussing Design Philosophy Considerations and Thematic Utility Tools
The Golden Ratio is an Irrational Number, and I was thinking about the lowest point in the Fibonacci sequence where the Golden Ratio begins to attain its identity.
In the sequence it goes from 3/5ths which is .6 in to 5/8ths which is .625
Meaning that it does really gain its identity until 5/8 in the sequence
I was thinking about 5/8 for a while and then it struck me that it could even more or less be reduced or translated in to
2.5/4 cutting 5 and 8 in half
Which might actually be both the purest and cleanest cut interpretation of the Golden Ratio that there is...
"Some of the greatest mathematical minds of all ages, from Pythagoras and Euclid in ancient Greece, through the medieval Italian mathematician Leonardo of Pisa and the Renaissance astronomer Johannes Kepler, to present-day scientific figures such as Oxford physicist Roger Penrose, have spent endless hours over this simple ratio and its properties. But the fascination with the Golden Ratio is not confined just to mathematicians. Biologists, artists, musicians, historians, architects, psychologists, and even mystics have pondered and debated the basis of its ubiquity and appeal. In fact, it is probably fair to say that the Golden Ratio has inspired thinkers of all disciplines like no other number in the history of mathematics"
hey Atlas[Mech] right? I remember you from back in the day, My aka was sGi.ZziijjaN / GoSu-DReaM back in those days if you remember, I loved the read, but still don't quite understand where you are getting at. I think Zerg and Protoss could be considered half a race with the under usage of Queens and or Scouts / Dark Archons.
The game acts like vision would be so useful to zerg because they actually have a philosophy, but if zerg are not philosophically complete in the first place then the vision is not as important to them.
The point is going to be relative to a question...
Is zerg half a race because they are missing design elements to complete a double sided philosophy to their two sided alternating production?
Or can it actually be proven that zerg is half a race because the single option of the zerg player's start is not cut in half to allow them to start with overlord , or substitute a hatchery for the overlord instead?
On March 16 2018 10:27 Dazed. wrote: The game acts like vision would be so useful to zerg because they actually have a philosophy, but if zerg are not philosophically complete in the first place then the vision is not as important to them.
The fuck does this even mean?
If zerg were to have the design to complement a play philosophy of "do not make buildings unless you are going to use them" then the overlord would help zerg to attempt to make counter buildings based on vision rather then forcing the player to make a building regardless
If zerglings are blocked from going up a ramp, and an overlord is required to see up a ramp then this is only half the battle in helping zerg apply the other side of the philosophy "do not make units unless you are going to use them" and by sacrifice aforementioned it would be more complementary to the zerg race based of these two elements combined that a unit made is a unit used, particularly with the zergling in this case.
On March 16 2018 10:27 Dazed. wrote: The game acts like vision would be so useful to zerg because they actually have a philosophy, but if zerg are not philosophically complete in the first place then the vision is not as important to them.
The fuck does this even mean?
If zerg were to have the design to complement a play philosophy of "do not make buildings unless you are going to use them" then the overlord would help zerg to attempt to make counter buildings based on vision rather then forcing the player to make a building regardless
...overlords do help with scouting information.
On March 16 2018 10:36 AtlasOfMeCH wrote: If zerglings are blocked from going up a ramp, and an overlord is required to see up a ramp then this is only half the battle in helping zerg apply the other side of the philosophy "do not make units unless you are going to use them" and by sacrifice aforementioned it would be more complementary to the zerg race based of these two elements combined that a unit made is a unit used, particularly with the zergling in this case.
Having a really difficult time discerning what the hell your talking about.
That actually ties in to another philosophical tear to the zerg race. The best defense is a good offense
You say zerg is reactionary but imagine if all of the starting drones were not able to attack and instead the overlord did the damage worth of 1 drone.
I would actually take that pitiful attacking overlord over 4 drones that can attack because that sense of offensive threat would be critical to their philosophy.
Overlords occupy larva, but do not have the value of a worker or a warrior for the sake of giving them the right for occupying a larva. The vision argument only resolves back to extraordinary controversy.
A fair compromise as consideration would be something along the lines of, take away the ability for drones to attack, and just give the overlord the damage of 1 worker.
I'm not saying that this is right, I'm completely saying this out of an inspired quality way of thinking.
On March 16 2018 10:47 AtlasOfMeCH wrote: Zergling bust
Still failing to see the relevance. Zerg is 'reactionary' and overlords help scout, ergo in any context where a zerg might have imperfect information is one in which the zerg race is 'failing' to properly live out its philosophy? Some babble to that extent? Just simple minded words and concepts youve brought to the table. Zerg functions in a reactionary way, it wasnt meant to be wholly reactionary. A zergling bust, like any early game bust or cheese or rush, is an rng gamble and has to be an rng gamble to at least some extent.
You could take what is implied by the 3 aspects of the overlord to imply an entire tri-fecta of philosophy that would seem relevant to the nature of their meta....
1.) Used for vision - relating to "do not make buildings unless you are going to use them" diminishing tech building production time per hatchery owned or determined by lair/hive tech achieved. 2.) Used for vision up ramps - relating to "do not make units unless you are going to use them" the zergling sacrifice bust 3.) Occupies a larva - relating to "the best defense is a good offense" the overlord that attacks with the power of 1 drone, all other drones attack removed
Moving on in to what I believe to be a quality thought process which led me to a potential missing "design classification" element of the zerg race which would have been titled "thematic utility tools"
It is my opinion that I was the first one to refer to zerg as a "parallel race" (parallel production), which actually led me to starting to view zerg's potential missing philosophy as one of dimension and so therefor "delayed reaction"
The thoughts considered points such as all zerg warriors being double in cost, production time, and coming in pairs like zerglings with zerglings coming in quads. This would have actually aligned a lot of unit costs in to the alignment of protoss unit costs and out of what seemed to be a closer alignment to terran in unit costs.
The other point was in terms of mathematical proportion. Zerg have 3 larva per hatchery, so why couldn't zerg have 6 zerglings produce from 1 egg for 150 minerals but then face the consequence of slowly losing life off creep?
Neither of these ideas felt beautiful enough to care about and seemed to relate to the swarm or overmind in a bland way at best.
When I started to look at things from a more abstract point of "thematic utility tools" I did so by considering the roles of both the bunker and the shield battery which are unlocked by terran and protoss' 150 mineral warrior starter buildings, barrack and gateway. I was able to identify a thematic perception of each. Bunker = Postional Ability and Shield Battery would either = Aggressive Quality or Reactive Quality. Since the sunken colony was unlocked by the spawning pool and did not have any element of offensive direction as suggested by its classification, I felt like it could be out of place both in classification aim but also relative to the other race's design and other/previous design schemes of its time. It seemed like the evolution chamber would unlock the sunken colony and spore colony and that the current sunk position would be replaced by a thematic utility tool that would either represent "reactive quantity" or "aggressive quantity".
I think it may be possible that the creep colony itself might have been confused as sort of zerg's thematic utility tool that may not have properly received enough love. Think about what the term colony implies. Group, and when I think of group, I think of Swarm. That is what led me to the swarm wreather unit idea, a sort of unit existing as a totally mobile thematic utility tool.
This all came back to what I believe is the perfect consideration for addressing the potential missing dimension of the zerg race. If the creep colony cost 100 minerals and could covert between a static sunken colony and back to a creep colony for a 25 mineral cost and refund (and time duration) then the numbers would be in alignment. If the sunken colony was unlocked by the evolution chamber just like the spore, then this might seem more proper.
This thematic utility tool could function by releasing *broodlings proportionally to the amount of life that it loses, up to and equal to the power output of 6 zerglings if the colony/wreather was fully destroyed. I believe it would be tactically interesting to be able to attack your colony/wreathers to release these broodlings, but I'm not sure if it would be balanced if this unit was considered a hostile target.
However, in terms of how it might function with burrow, might be how the tool/unit would truly shine. Imagine if it could detonate its life pool while burrowed to convert in to the amount of brood-ling equivalent to the power of 6 zerglings since the full cost of the tool/wreather would be 150 minerals, 100 + 50 for drone.
Even at this point if it were to be considered over powered, a delay before the detonation could be in place to show that the point of this unit is to keep the enemy moving while he is out on the field with no detection. And if the enemy does not keep moving then there are consequences that seem very relevant to what the swarm philosophy is all about and so would be based on what it is.
How many acolytes do you have and can I become one? I would very much like to visit your thatch hut in the mountains and learn from you as you fumble with the bone in your beard.
The other point was in terms of mathematical proportion. Zerg have 3 larva per hatchery, so why couldn't zerg have 6 zerglings produce from 1 egg for 150 minerals but then face the consequence of slowly losing life off creep?