A long time ago, on Lost Temple, it wasn't uncommon for one base Terran play. I really thought about this strategy and its timing soley dependant on your opponent going 3 hatch mutas or lurkers. I have yet to face an opponent that went 2 hatch lurkers or mutas and don't know how it fares against them.
The strategy is that you go 1 rax, first supply part of the wall. Get your gas immediatly after rax placing an other supply at your wall to finish it, pump scvs and rines till 22. Stop scvs and build acad then supply (22 pop). Build starport immediatly after factory, no addon for factory. The timing comes out that you add the starport add on, scanner, get stim, and build 1 medic and 1 firebat. You build a dropship. It all finishes about the same time, 7-9 rines, 1 medic, 1 firebat. You immediatly load them into the dropship and head for the Zergs main, or wherever their tech is (usually the main or 3rd hatch). You will have enough money / gas to start upgrading range right after stim finishes so on the way over / while you're attacking it will finish too. The dropship should arrive around 5:40-6:00. The normal 3 hatch spire finishes at 6:20, and the lurker morph upgrade will be almost finished. Back at home you add a science facility with all your extra gas, and get a vessel asap, j ust incase they morphed some mutas and you will need irradiate to defend. While doing this you will have extra money so add a second and 3rd rax, or expand.
The idea behind this strategy is that you land your rines and target the tech building immediatly. You either kill the spire / hydra den before it is complete / before the lurker morph is finished, and completely ruin their tech. They then have only a spawning pool, and 3 hatch with saved larva or a few hydras, which get absolutely raped vs 6 rines 1 fbat 1 medic. Depending on their response they will let their main die, and maybe even 3rd hatch if its above ramp, along with their spawning pool, and sunken up nat. They have already lost the game at this point, but to make it all sexy, you shou ld have about 2 vessels at this time, and about 15-20 mnm army. Attack his nat. Dmatrix the first rine, run it then, then fallow with your army and kill his nat.
I have only used this strategy this new season, at the D level, and have won every game with it, but disclaimer that none of my opponents were over 150 apm zergs, and were obviously on the D level. I have used it on Python, Bluestorm, and Othello, Othello working the best obviously because you can follow up the drop with a drop on their cliff and kill some drones / tech behind min line.
The common response was to try to fight my small force with lings + hydras, sometimes even with drones, and I won every battle. 6-8 lings + 4 hydras + drones was the most I ever faced and I came out on top losing all but 2 rines, firebat, and medic.
I thought I'd post this because I enjoy micro intensive builds and this is definitely it, and very fun to execute and micro against single lurkers and doing nada/boxer esque moves.
I have a few replays I can upload if anyone cares, but its against low skill opponents so doesn't really prove the builds strengths or weaknesses.
I'd like feedback on the build, ideas on what you could follow it up with depending on the damage it does, maybe a second drop at the nat min line with the same dropship? Blah blah, discuss and all that.
Bump for more feedback, more games played, noticing trends. If they send a drone to scout, and see gas, they go hydra -> lurk, which honestly makes the games even easier, because the hydras die almost instantly, and then they lose their main. Sometimes they will send overlord in base to see what I'm doing too, same result. Zerg seemed to be too scared to attack after it happens, so even if attack fails they make a few scourge and sunken up main and camp until lurkers come out, or until they get bigger numbers. I've been following it up by adding 3 more rax's (4 total) and then taking my nat and going SK terran if they survive, it worked well one game on andromeda, high vessel count because they were started right after dropship and mass mnm contain, followed up by a dual drop on his main again, ending it.
Lost a game to 9 pool speed into 2 hatch mutas, sent 2 scourge with mutas when my attack on his main was killed and killed first vessel before irradiate got off, then brought 2 more scourge in as he harassed and sniped second vessel as it popped out. Needless to say it was over.
You're obviously playing dumbasses. I've had this done to me a lot, if I see low Marine count, or else they don't move out when they should. I throw down 2 sunkens in my main, and make a few zerglings. Stops any drop dead in its tracks. Then I'd simply rape you with Mutas, and/or Lurkers.
But I should mention I'm a really old school player (Going on 8 years now), I've seen it all and I've had it all done to me. I remember when FE TvZ Terran didn't even exist. So your build is actually a really old one, but its outdated and it's not used very much.
Sometimes old school builds work wonders against today's current builds.
On September 08 2008 23:11 Krohm wrote: You're obviously playing dumbasses. I've had this done to me a lot, if I see low Marine count, or else they don't move out when they should. I throw down 2 sunkens in my main, and make a few zerglings. Stops any drop dead in its tracks. Then I'd simply rape you with Mutas, and/or Lurkers.
But I should mention I'm a really old school player (Going on 8 years now), I've seen it all and I've had it all done to me. I remember when FE TvZ Terran didn't even exist. So your build is actually a really old one, but its outdated and it's not used very much.
Sometimes old school builds work wonders against today's current builds.
Yep.
Lot of young players follow macro-style without having even try what has been done before. I guess at D- level, going 1 rax expo is not the obvious best choice in TvZ...
That's why someone like Boxer has been so dominant for years: he knows better than anybody why we are playing the way we play.
PLaying old school today is almost an advantage. See the other day how Luxury raped using the old Yellow lurker build.
On September 08 2008 23:11 Krohm wrote: You're obviously playing dumbasses. I've had this done to me a lot, if I see low Marine count, or else they don't move out when they should. I throw down 2 sunkens in my main, and make a few zerglings. Stops any drop dead in its tracks. Then I'd simply rape you with Mutas, and/or Lurkers.
But I should mention I'm a really old school player (Going on 8 years now), I've seen it all and I've had it all done to me. I remember when FE TvZ Terran didn't even exist. So your build is actually a really old one, but its outdated and it's not used very much.
Sometimes old school builds work wonders against today's current builds.
So what happens when it turns out to be wraiths?
This build never stops making rines the entire time, not questioning your knowledge just that for all intents and purposes it looks like an FE with cc built in base for the first few minutes until they don't see CC flying down, but half the time walking down your ramp scares the lings away and they never come back due to bad multitasking or poor scouting, and zergs are greeeeeedy. I didn't expect anyone at D- through C- to understand the build and its proper counter, or have seen it before many times before, and in my first posts disclaimer I say its against 100-200 apm D zerg players. From my knowledge of TL most of the terran on the forum are between D- and C so I thought this would help some of them out by adding a differen't strat to their book rather than 1 or 2 rax cc every game.
On September 08 2008 23:11 Krohm wrote: You're obviously playing dumbasses. I've had this done to me a lot, if I see low Marine count, or else they don't move out when they should. I throw down 2 sunkens in my main, and make a few zerglings. Stops any drop dead in its tracks. Then I'd simply rape you with Mutas, and/or Lurkers.
But I should mention I'm a really old school player (Going on 8 years now), I've seen it all and I've had it all done to me. I remember when FE TvZ Terran didn't even exist. So your build is actually a really old one, but its outdated and it's not used very much.
Sometimes old school builds work wonders against today's current builds.
It's a decent build I guess, low rine count (impossible to hide really) means fast drop, wraith, or one base mech. A constantly flashing rax rules out mech. Since he doesn't have to make any sunks beyond his first now getting 12 speedlings at a faster than normal timing + hydra den and 2 hydras before spire isn't THAT terrible for his ecconomy and it insta kills both builds. Unless you for whatever reason allows the dropship to unload in peace... But yea the build is decent for throwing people of guard.
Yeah usually when you do these dropship builds vs a good zerg, his experience will lead him to suspicion espeically if he knows how to scout (peek in with overlord every now and then, checking depot count (if you FE I think you get ur CC before your third depot), if you're not careful he can get a peek at ur gas, watching flashing rax, etc) so you know generally this build is extremly hard to hide from a good zerg, and just generally if he notices some of the timings vary or just absence of like an expo and whatnot he'll take precautions (e.g set up a colony at every hatch with evo chamber - in case you go for wraiths or vulture runby/drop or just rine drop, or he might just get more lings than usual) and he'll be in a good position to fend off this drop of yours. So generally when you do these sorts of builds vs good players, you'll have to be extremely vigilent when it comes to hiding ur tech, base, etc while not losing rines here and there. However I do agree that these kinds of builds work great vs D/D+/C- players :D and might be a great option if you're going to play a Bo3 or Bo5
On September 08 2008 23:11 Krohm wrote: You're obviously playing dumbasses. I've had this done to me a lot, if I see low Marine count, or else they don't move out when they should. I throw down 2 sunkens in my main, and make a few zerglings. Stops any drop dead in its tracks. Then I'd simply rape you with Mutas, and/or Lurkers.
But I should mention I'm a really old school player (Going on 8 years now), I've seen it all and I've had it all done to me. I remember when FE TvZ Terran didn't even exist. So your build is actually a really old one, but its outdated and it's not used very much.
Sometimes old school builds work wonders against today's current builds.
You must die a lot to Tank rush / Wraith.
u just flick on the maphack and cancel the sunkens b4 they finish if u see lights flashing on starport duh
(i think this build is fun and a good change of pace, and can score you some wins vs "better" standard zvt players if you can execute this right)
All I know is the VOD in the second response both players were terrible.... Anytime a Zerg loses his first Overlord for nothing, it's not worth showing.
It's experience, micro, and map selection that makes the biggest differences with builds. Below a B, you can pretty much do any build on any map you like if you have good micro. I've done one base Zerg on new age maps plenty of times with fun results. I couldn't have done it if my opponents weren't terrible though.
On September 08 2008 23:11 Krohm wrote: You're obviously playing dumbasses. I've had this done to me a lot, if I see low Marine count, or else they don't move out when they should. I throw down 2 sunkens in my main, and make a few zerglings. Stops any drop dead in its tracks. Then I'd simply rape you with Mutas, and/or Lurkers.
But I should mention I'm a really old school player (Going on 8 years now), I've seen it all and I've had it all done to me. I remember when FE TvZ Terran didn't even exist. So your build is actually a really old one, but its outdated and it's not used very much.
Sometimes old school builds work wonders against today's current builds.
You must die a lot to Tank rush / Wraith.
u just flick on the maphack and cancel the sunkens b4 they finish if u see lights flashing on starport duh
(i think this build is fun and a good change of pace, and can score you some wins vs "better" standard zvt players if you can execute this right)
I laughed.
Anyway, I wanted to clear something up about your build. Are you just going one rax for a while? If so its another dead give away of your build. (Post a replay too if you can)
As for Wraith rushes, I'm not too sure on the exact build. Is it just single port? Or dual you're talking about. Dual Ports is easy to scout unless you can hide them well. In which case if you have single marines spaced around your base, then obviously I'd know something is up. So I'd probably play safety and make spores and sunkens.
As for tank rushes, well those just never really work to well. No explanation needed. Vulture run by's are pretty much in the same boat. Unless you're a moron and position your scouting lings, and sunkens in horrible positions.
It is 1 rax until the dropship leaves, because up until then you're making supply depots, fact then port then ad on, getting stim and range, getting sci facility, etc etc. Once dropship leaves you are only making rines and scvs so I usually add 3 more rax's, then take my expo, and add another 3-4 and go into an SK terran style, ill pm you some replays.
I don't see how you can add 3 more rax's before your expo....you'll have to cut rine production and your already low on resources, and at this point your main priority is an extra CC.....I'd just add like 1 rax then expo then add others after your transferred scvs started bringing in the money
On September 10 2008 02:02 VyzhiS wrote: I don't see how you can add 3 more rax's before your expo....you'll have to cut rine production and your already low on resources, and at this point your main priority is an extra CC.....I'd just add like 1 rax then expo then add others after your transferred scvs started bringing in the money
I don't really understand what you mean "how can you add 3 more rax's before expo" You're 1 base with 1 rax, building only mnm and vessels. You have plenty of money. The only reason its a 1 rax build all the way up until dropship is because you are using your minerals all on tech. Pretty much as soon as the dropship leaves you have all the tech finished, and start having a huge excess of minerals. My thoughts behind building the rax's first are that if I did enough damage I can end it quickly with a sunk break, or if he defended it well I will need the army to defend. If you go cc immediatly and your drop doesn't do much damage you are probably going to lose because you will only have about a group of mnm and two vessels.
You can't really pump 4 rax off one base, it's a fact. All I'm saying is that if your actual drop works, it'll keep the zerg in his base just like a 1 gate reaver/shuttle will keep a terran in his base if he is cought off guard. I think you've said that the main purpose of this build is to deny the zerg tech altogether. So if you INDEED do succeed with killing his den/spire before he begins making his mutas and whatnot, why the hell would you need 4 rax, when you can't even pump out of 4 rax off one base, going for a sunk break would be pretty fucking risky simply because he might overreact to your drop, morphing 10000 lings putting sunks up in case of a sunk break or added pressure. Bottom line I think the best follow up to this would be to add 1 rax and just get your cc up, how is he supposed to kill you with pure ling? Just make firebats you dont need 4 rax which you cant pump from until your expo is up ( assuming you dont miss production rounds) and if you fail in screwing his tech up, you're fucked anyway cause most zerg's go for 3 hatch mutas, so you can't waste minerals on turrets cause you're pumping from 3/4 rax, so if you do invest in turrets, you'll have so many less rines = zerg takes the whole map. If he goes for lurks, you'll be contained for quite a while = ez expos for zerg.
So overall what I'm trying to say is that the safest follow up to this build of yours ( in case the drop succeeds because if it doesn't, you're screwed anyway) is to take your expo and macro up cause the zerg will be lightyears behind and you'll have easy map control etc.