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| Saracen United States. December 07 2009 22:36. Posts 5127 | Profile Blog # |
I finally mustered up the patience to ladder up to C+. Right now, I'm at 41-22 with 5009 points. It's really depressing to ladder consistently because you start to realize that you really aren't as good as you think you are. I think it's a good reality check for me, though; it took me 24 games to go from C to C+ with just a bit over a 50% win ratio, meaning I'm still probably solid C rank, despite what my previous blogs say.
The funny thing is, my "best" (and by far my most comfortable) matchup, ZvP, is also statistically my worst, whereas ZvZ, which I just recently picked up (I used to dodge vs Z or play PvZ), got me the most points. Still, ZvT is definitely my most inconsistent matchup. It seems that no one mechs anymore (I've played a total of one mecher on this account), so I've been forced to relearn how to standard 3hatch muta again. I'm pretty confident in my opening, and perhaps my midgame as well, but once I'm forced to use defilers and secure a fourth gas, I'm completely lost. I'm hoping it's because I just haven't consistently played bio in a while.
What I've been doing in each MU:
+ Show Spoiler +ZvP: 3hatch spire/gas 5hatch muta->hydra. It completely wrecks Ps who refuse to build more than one sair or a dark archon. I was experimenting with lurker openings, but got rocked too hard because I can't control so many lings without losing them all to storms. And the forge choke block cannon rush on HBR is seriously retarded...
ZvZ: 12hatch in base->mass ling. It seems that even at C level, Zergs don't know to sunken up... I used to use 9pool speed, then 9pool lair, but those got countered too often.
ZvT: Standard 3hatch muta. I try to harass with my first 12 speedlings (send a few to harass his nat workers, then run the rest to his main to mess up his turret timing). It's pretty much a guaranteed loss if I don't finish him off on lair tech, though...
A question about ZvT:
It seems that many Ts I've played have been cutting SCVs to get faster rax and a larger midgame m&m army so they can have enough forces to push out and deny my 3rd just before lurkers. So instead of droning after mutas, I've been getting lings to fight his first push, then droning after a good number of lurkers. Is this the correct response?Last edit: 2012-02-15 19:17:23
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| Cloud Sexico. December 07 2009 22:47. Posts 5604 | Profile Blog # |
No, instead do not expand, get the 4th hatchery in your main, drone for a little to saturate really nicely your 2 main bases. Get carapace and stuff, and expand when your first 6 or so lurkers are out. You will be ahead economically. 1 half group of lurkers, 1 of mutas and 1 of lings are enough to fight anything terran may have at this point.
That's standard vs 4 rax or more before factory and guys who cut on scvs (to be honest it sounds like he just sucks at making scvs),Last edit: 2009-12-07 22:49:27 |
| | BlueLaguna on West, msg for game. | |
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| ToyotaDemon Australia. December 07 2009 23:02. Posts 150 | Profile Blog # |
Might wanna think about some 2 hatch play as well, not there is anything wrong with 3 hatch play. It's just that nearly all terrans (decent ones anyways) have learned when and how to defend against 3 hatch mutas so they are able to squeeze out extra units, defend absolutely perfectly against you or know the exact timings for pushes to be effective (like the one you described).
Just something to think about.
PS. Congrats on C+ though ;D! go for the blue : > |
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| Lozzo.cu United States. December 07 2009 23:09. Posts 101 | Profile Blog # |
As a T player, i know for a fact that whether I choose to do an upgraded push (2 bar before teching, push at 9-10 min) or to go heavy midgame to deny zerg's 3rd, I dont need to cut scvs. Terran as a race cannot spend as fast as zerg or protoss, hence the "turtleness" property. The only build that requires cutting SCV is a timed all-in, like a 4 barrack sunken break (mind you, the "spark" build is specificly used against 3 hatch muta if you are not aware of it already)
When you muta's r doing harassing, be aware of terran barrack count. 2 barrack is defensive, but is generally paired with amazing upgrade timing. in that case you should get ur 3rd up as well as evo chamber asap. I'm still uncertain if it's better for zerg to go late hive against upgrade pushes or not... (map dependent)
If there are 4 barracks, then stop droning to get a bigger ground army like could suggested. (probably before u get lurks, so mutalings r the only defense you got). IMO it's very silly for terran to midgame push against 3hatch-muta-lurk, because the window isn't all that big and it varies. |
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| Lozzo.cu United States. December 07 2009 23:11. Posts 101 | Profile Blog # |
On December 07 2009 23:02 ToyotaDemon wrote:
Might wanna think about some 2 hatch play as well, not there is anything wrong with 3 hatch play. It's just that nearly all terrans (decent ones anyways) have learned when and how to defend against 3 hatch mutas so they are able to squeeze out extra units, defend absolutely perfectly against you or know the exact timings for pushes to be effective (like the one you described).
truth.
also in terms of mental state, 2 hatch really gets terran on his toes a lot more. 2 hatch is meant to get early lair pressure to cover an expansion, but 90% of people automatically assumes some sort of all-in. Which also works really well =P
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| lokiM United States. December 07 2009 23:26. Posts 3364 | Profile Blog # |
On December 07 2009 22:47 Cloud wrote:
No, instead do not expand, get the 4th hatchery in your main, drone for a little to saturate really nicely your 2 main bases. Get carapace and stuff, and expand when your first 6 or so lurkers are out. You will be ahead economically. 1 half group of lurkers, 1 of mutas and 1 of lings are enough to fight anything terran may have at this point.
That's standard vs 4 rax or more before factory and guys who cut on scvs (to be honest it sounds like he just sucks at making scvs),
yeah this is not what you do lol
if you know hes doing a timing push on your 3rd just make the extra effort with your muta micro and build lings or just get your lurkers that much quicker, if you dont feel safe just dont expand right away, this is something I use to have a problem with vs 4 rax but eventually you'll get the feeling of knowing what you should have by the time he moves outLast edit: 2009-12-07 23:28:18 |
| | You can't fight the feeling. KPFgang |
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Spenguin  Australia. December 07 2009 23:35. Posts 3316 | Profile Blog # |
| I was hoping that this wasn't another iCCup blog, but congrats anyway. |
| | < TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people. |
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| Grobyc Canada. December 08 2009 00:26. Posts 16976 | Profile Blog # | |
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 GHOSTCLAW United States. December 08 2009 00:46. Posts 16717 | Profile Blog # |
On December 07 2009 23:35 Spenguin wrote:
I was hoping that this wasn't another iCCup blog, but congrats anyway.
never believe the title xD |
| | Liquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help. | |
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 WeSt Portugal. December 08 2009 00:52. Posts 918 | Profile Blog # |
What I usually do vs this kind of terran is to put pressure with 2 hat spire with a 3rd hidden hatch at a gas expansion. It will delay your mutas a little bit but it will trick him into thinking you are going for the normal +1 attack 2 hat spire while you are getting a den and lurker upgrade at your 3rd. If he cuts scvs while you are harrassing with mutas to have a strong mid game army he will be REALLY far behind because he had to cut scvs / marines to defend a fake muta ling attack and eventually made many many turrets and even bunks in some cases. Once he finally pushes out you should have 2 lurkers at your 3rd and some more at your nat.
Advantages of this? You will have a great economy (specially gas wise) and you will get a hive aprox at 11 min mark meaning you will have operating defilers @ around 12-13 mins into the game. Theres no way he can bust your nat or 3rd since he commited himself to a low tech army meaning late tanks and vessels. You should be able to crush him hard with defilers / plague and gain map control early since he doesn't have enough vessels to kill all those defilers. Once you are at 4 gas just pump imbalisks. Disclaimer: this has been working for me @ B-/B level I don't know how it goes vs good terrans. |
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| Espers England. December 08 2009 01:30. Posts 205 | Profile Blog # |
| Um what? You can't go 2 hatch spire to counter a 4 barracks build when you commit to two or three hatching before you even see him fast expanding. Last edit: 2009-12-08 01:36:07 |
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| Catch]22 Sweden. December 08 2009 01:50. Posts 2340 | Profile Blog # |
On December 08 2009 01:30 Espers wrote:
Um what? You can't go 2 hatch spire to counter a 4 barracks build when you commit to two or three hatching before you even see him fast expanding.
According to liquipedia, the 4 rax (aka the Ayumi) is a counter to 3 hatch, but weak against 2 hatch, but you stop doing it if you notice a 2hatch and just carry on your regular plan, however... didnt flash do it against Kwanros 2 hatch on Tornado? |
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| LuckyFool United States. December 08 2009 01:59. Posts 8290 | Profile Blog # |
There are 4rax builds that aren't "the Ayumi" build. Ayumi basically cuts scvs in order to get 4rax as fast as possible, there are much safer and strong 4rax builds that can counter 2hatch muta very well. Terran makes 2fast rax then adds 2 more after expo is up (never cutting scvs) moves out with mnm force and forces zerg to defend with early muta or if the early muta attack zerg will lose either 3rd or nat.
Ayumi build basically needs to win the game vs a 3hatch play or the T will be behind imo. |
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| hooktits United States. December 08 2009 02:24. Posts 951 | Profile Blog # |
once my first 9 muta are out i have an order i go thru unless i see some thing different from terran and have to adapt:
9muta (take third usually right before they hatch)
then den and evo
then 2 more muta (the better the harrass the better the chances of u winning)
then lurk upgrade and +1 carapace
and then soon after drones and lings with extra minerals and queens nest
then i make sure i have about 6 hydra ready to morph the second that lurks are ready
good job on C+ |
| | Hooktits of Tits gaming @hooktits twit |
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| koreasilver Canada. December 08 2009 02:48. Posts 7491 | Profile Blog # |
On December 08 2009 01:50 Catch]22 wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 08 2009 01:30 Espers wrote:
Um what? You can't go 2 hatch spire to counter a 4 barracks build when you commit to two or three hatching before you even see him fast expanding.
According to liquipedia, the 4 rax (aka the Ayumi) is a counter to 3 hatch, but weak against 2 hatch, but you stop doing it if you notice a 2hatch and just carry on your regular plan, however... didnt flash do it against Kwanros 2 hatch on Tornado?
4rax =/= Ayumi. Ayumi gets 4rax before gas. When players say "4rax" its just to differentiate between the two standard bio builds where the Terran gets 3 or 4 rax before teching to factory. Last edit: 2009-12-08 02:49:18 |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt |
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| eXigent. Canada. December 08 2009 03:33. Posts 2398 | Profile Blog # |
| Nice job on C+. Im a C terran (4400 high) and im struggling to get to that next level. If you wanna play a bunch of tvz games that would be pretty sweet. Im not sure if you are looking for a practice partner or not, but I figured I would go ahead and give it a shot. PM me. |
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| oxidized United States. December 08 2009 05:33. Posts 311 | Profile Blog # | |
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| klizzer December 08 2009 07:07. Posts 517 | Profile # | |
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| Saracen United States. December 09 2009 22:27. Posts 5127 | Profile Blog # |
Thanks for your comments, guys!
Luckyfool, I think I played you pretty recently. iirc, I got a pretty large midgame advantage and then squandered it by being too aggressive, forgetting to tech, hating defilers, etc. But yeah, that's pretty much how my ZvT is... |
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