MMA means mixed martial arts; so a MMA promotion is basically like a boxing promotion, they set up the fight card between a number of fighters.
BJJ is Brazilian Jujitsu which was formed by the Gracie family in the early 1900's which focused on ground fighting and submissions and which is integral in MMA because MMA involves both striking (kicking and punching) and wrestling, judo and BJJ.
^^
-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
Risen United States. October 01 2010 02:29. Posts 5852
Incentives for the fighters will draw people faster than anything else. Just look at what the enormous prize pool has been doing for the SC2 crowd in Korea
Pufftrees Everyday > its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/FakeSteve[TPR]: excal i knew there was something... different about you. get at my digits you sexy manbeast
MightyAtom Korea (South). October 01 2010 02:46. Posts 1573
On October 01 2010 02:29 itzbrandnew wrote: Incentives for the fighters will draw people faster than anything else. Just look at what the enormous prize pool has been doing for the SC2 crowd in Korea
I agree, but unlike SC2, MMA needs like 2 years of training to be at a top international level, instead of 2 hours with incontrol tutoring you. keke.
-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
IdrA United States. October 01 2010 03:55. Posts 11455
thats all relative, you can be high level in sc2 quickly because no one actually has that much experience. as long as you're not matching the korean fighters up against gsp and silva theyll look fine, given a basic level of competence that they all have already.
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Waxangel United States. October 01 2010 05:40. Posts 19768
wouldn't be terribly surprised if you came to the conclusion that this is all terribly unviable at the present, considering you'd have to do a lot of the development
Hey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
MightyAtom Korea (South). October 01 2010 08:54. Posts 1573
On October 01 2010 03:55 IdrA wrote: thats all relative, you can be high level in sc2 quickly because no one actually has that much experience. as long as you're not matching the korean fighters up against gsp and silva theyll look fine, given a basic level of competence that they all have already.
I agree, but it an issue of the quality of the 'product'/fights. As a off event, you could get away with it, but building a brand around it and a business that will grow, its a risk to do so, also, we'd look quite amateur because Koreans do watch UFC for free in Korea and they'd know that our fighters would get wreaked by those guys. Kinda like doing commentary on a gold vs gold game but when you can see diamond verse diamond or a good gsl match up, the gold vs gold in the long run looks cheap. btw good look on the next gsl, I look for to seeing you win it next time around. ^^
-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
MightyAtom Korea (South). October 01 2010 08:55. Posts 1573
On October 01 2010 05:40 Waxangel wrote: wouldn't be terribly surprised if you came to the conclusion that this is all terribly unviable at the present, considering you'd have to do a lot of the development
I need more time to think about how I can have my cake and eat it too; but UFC is on the air right now and while it doesn't have the same level of interest as Pride did in Korea, its possibly is still keeping MMA in the minds of the people.
-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
jdwashere United States. October 01 2010 13:28. Posts 62
On October 01 2010 02:26 MightyAtom wrote: MMA means mixed martial arts; so a MMA promotion is basically like a boxing promotion, they set up the fight card between a number of fighters.
BJJ is Brazilian Jujitsu which was formed by the Gracie family in the early 1900's which focused on ground fighting and submissions and which is integral in MMA because MMA involves both striking (kicking and punching) and wrestling, judo and BJJ.
^^
You should learn things before you teach things....
Trap United States. October 01 2010 14:07. Posts 395
Have you thought about reaching out to some of the full contact but more traditional martial arts in Korea, i.e. ITF taekwondo, into joining a MMA event? (admittedly, I know very little about ITF, or any other Korean martial arts, and a lot of them might just be offended and refuse.) One of the big early draws of early UFC was the variety of styles, whereas currently in the UFC the heavies have become somewhat homogenous and lackluster by comparison. If you could get a couple of competitive traditional Korean strikers who can sprawl I think people would get more interested in following it for the novelty. And Koreans might be more interested in trying out grappling in Korea after seeing how it fares against most traditional striking arts (remember how Royce's first couple of UFCs kickstarted a BJJ craze in the US?)
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MightyAtom Korea (South). October 01 2010 14:14. Posts 1573
On October 01 2010 02:26 MightyAtom wrote: MMA means mixed martial arts; so a MMA promotion is basically like a boxing promotion, they set up the fight card between a number of fighters.
BJJ is Brazilian Jujitsu which was formed by the Gracie family in the early 1900's which focused on ground fighting and submissions and which is integral in MMA because MMA involves both striking (kicking and punching) and wrestling, judo and BJJ.
^^
You should learn things before you teach things....
sorry it was off the top of my head, but isn't is a relatively right definition but I am wrong in one part, sorry can I say popularized by the Gracie family.
On October 01 2010 14:07 Trap wrote: Have you thought about reaching out to some of the full contact but more traditional martial arts in Korea, i.e. ITF taekwondo, into joining a MMA event? (admittedly, I know very little about ITF, or any other Korean martial arts, and a lot of them might just be offended and refuse.) One of the big early draws of early UFC was the variety of styles, whereas currently in the UFC the heavies have become somewhat homogenous and lackluster by comparison. If you could get a couple of competitive traditional Korean strikers who can sprawl I think people would get more interested in following it for the novelty. And Koreans might be more interested in trying out grappling in Korea after seeing how it fares against most traditional striking arts (remember how Royce's first couple of UFCs kickstarted a BJJ craze in the US?)
Actually the option/thought never crossed by mind whatsoever, I think it is actually a pretty good idea but I'm following the investors request on this MMA stuff, but it is something to consider thanks ^^
With the new Korean GP in Yeongnam, is it actually worth the effort? I mean, Korea has no drivers in F1, there aren't really any Korean brands related to the sport except for LG (timing). Yeongnam seems to be isolated compared to say Seoul, Busan or Incheon.
I think all of these factors make me think the race will flop after a couple of years and the FIA will pull out. I don't see any racing scene developing in Korea as well.
On October 01 2010 14:07 Trap wrote: Have you thought about reaching out to some of the full contact but more traditional martial arts in Korea, i.e. ITF taekwondo, into joining a MMA event? ... + Show Spoiler +
(admittedly, I know very little about ITF, or any other Korean martial arts, and a lot of them might just be offended and refuse.) One of the big early draws of early UFC was the variety of styles, whereas currently in the UFC the heavies have become somewhat homogenous and lackluster by comparison. If you could get a couple of competitive traditional Korean strikers who can sprawl I think people would get more interested in following it for the novelty. And Koreans might be more interested in trying out grappling in Korea after seeing how it fares against most traditional striking arts (remember how Royce's first couple of UFCs kickstarted a BJJ craze in the US?)
I kind of agree with this. This seems to be what a lot of promoters in smaller markets do (Russia- sambo/judo, China-Sanshou). I think a lot of it too is that MMA fighter pool is sparse there so that's kind of the only choice to sign more than being about national pride/audience familiarity. But it seems to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Also consider a marketing niche. For example, some companies go the full blown entertainment/theatrics route vs traditional sports style. Pride sort of did it, KSW does it today (someone came down in a fucking tank lol). Also they have ultra popular powerlifter competing. Sounds like a freakshow, but it has its place, and can generate interest if combined with longterm/legit sport goals. The rise of Japanese MMA heavily piggy backed on their prowrestling scene, and is still influenced a lot.
One caveat is that if Korea is aware of other MMA it might not be as effective. (I believe Fedor, Kang, Akiyama are pretty big there, but I dont know how big).
and ofcourse the biggest Star Spangled Banner fail ever:
Last edit: 2010-10-05 00:02:42
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Ciryandor United States. October 05 2010 12:08. Posts 3168
The country already has a strong martial arts tradition in Tae Kwon Do, and major influences in Judo and BJJ brought on by the media presence of MMA in the country. People are aware that it exists, and that they like it. As I see the conditions, I'd have to say that what you want to cultivate is an MMA experience that is accessible to Koreans; and that doesn't have to necessarily mean it's immediately as good as what you'd see in the Octagon every few weeks. These guys are bound to have fans, family and people who know them despite being underground; so it's more of creating an eye-opener for those people who support an individual that there are other players with comparable skills they can like or hate on. The chance to see "YOUR GUY" (note: NOT a stable!) in action with others may seem like promoting based on fighter personalities/charisma, but a focus on them providing a close-up experience of seeing how good they are in the arena can bring in new blood and viewers.
People will go live even if for one match; but if they see two well-matched fighters with distinctive styles giving a good fight (whatever technical deficiencies they may have); is the key to broadening the appeal as a whole. It was how UFC built itself up in the United States; getting good matches from different fighter styles of comparable skills against each other. This means getting as many people who are in the fighting field and having a reliable person (Joe Silva-like) match them regarding their skill levels. The more people appreciate the fights, the more people will want to see fights independent of the people, as they realize that there are raw talents that can compete in the sport that are duking it out alongside well-rounded players who can compete on an international level already.
The caveat here is of course if you want to go the UFC route and eventually set it up as a "feeder" Asian league for aspiring, legitimate UFC contenders; would actually make you look good vs places like PRIDE if that pans out.
(OT: Sheesh, first time in a few months I've done a quick and dirty but proper analysis of competitive climate.)
IU Y SO GOOD - Captain err I mean COACH HYUK!
MightyAtom Korea (South). October 05 2010 12:34. Posts 1573
On October 01 2010 14:07 Trap wrote: Have you thought about reaching out to some of the full contact but more traditional martial arts in Korea, i.e. ITF taekwondo, into joining a MMA event? ... + Show Spoiler +
(admittedly, I know very little about ITF, or any other Korean martial arts, and a lot of them might just be offended and refuse.) One of the big early draws of early UFC was the variety of styles, whereas currently in the UFC the heavies have become somewhat homogenous and lackluster by comparison. If you could get a couple of competitive traditional Korean strikers who can sprawl I think people would get more interested in following it for the novelty. And Koreans might be more interested in trying out grappling in Korea after seeing how it fares against most traditional striking arts (remember how Royce's first couple of UFCs kickstarted a BJJ craze in the US?)
I kind of agree with this. This seems to be what a lot of promoters in smaller markets do (Russia- sambo/judo, China-Sanshou). I think a lot of it too is that MMA fighter pool is sparse there so that's kind of the only choice to sign more than being about national pride/audience familiarity. But it seems to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
Also consider a marketing niche. For example, some companies go the full blown entertainment/theatrics route vs traditional sports style. Pride sort of did it, KSW does it today (someone came down in a fucking tank lol). Also they have ultra popular powerlifter competing. Sounds like a freakshow, but it has its place, and can generate interest if combined with longterm/legit sport goals. The rise of Japanese MMA heavily piggy backed on their prowrestling scene, and is still influenced a lot.
One caveat is that if Korea is aware of other MMA it might not be as effective. (I believe Fedor, Kang, Akiyama are pretty big there, but I dont know how big).
and ofcourse the biggest Star Spangled Banner fail ever:
#1 Thanks for the clips, the first one gave me a headache 'a la free hand style' but the 2nd and 3rd one were very entertaining. #2 I reckon that if we did do a show, it would have to be extremely entertaining; I think I would do a bikini fashion show and some singers come in (I know the owners for FTV and my brother in law is a senior manager for SM entertainment, you know wondergirls, boa etc..) but I think definately the show will have to be spectacular, but the clips were great. thanks. ^^ #3 Korea as a market is a bit unique in that, people are over then entire MMA vs the traditional martial arts because they had match up like that about 5-6 years ago, and of course the martial artist got their asses handed to them after they would do some sick demonstration entrance routine then get put on their backs and choked out...
In terms of event spectacle, great, in terms of fights, I think I need to have a real product that can be at an international standard because Korea is very wired and I don't think I could get away with a lousy product for too long. especially if one of the champions does well in Korea, goes to the UFC for a fight and gets his ass handed to him in a very humiliating way.
-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
MightyAtom Korea (South). October 05 2010 12:50. Posts 1573
On October 05 2010 12:08 Ciryandor wrote: The country already has a strong martial arts tradition in Tae Kwon Do, and major influences in Judo and BJJ brought on by the media presence of MMA in the country. People are aware that it exists, and that they like it. As I see the conditions, I'd have to say that what you want to cultivate is an MMA experience that is accessible to Koreans; and that doesn't have to necessarily mean it's immediately as good as what you'd see in the Octagon every few weeks. These guys are bound to have fans, family and people who know them despite being underground; so it's more of creating an eye-opener for those people who support an individual that there are other players with comparable skills they can like or hate on. The chance to see "YOUR GUY" (note: NOT a stable!) in action with others may seem like promoting based on fighter personalities/charisma, but a focus on them providing a close-up experience of seeing how good they are in the arena can bring in new blood and viewers.
People will go live even if for one match; but if they see two well-matched fighters with distinctive styles giving a good fight (whatever technical deficiencies they may have); is the key to broadening the appeal as a whole. It was how UFC built itself up in the United States; getting good matches from different fighter styles of comparable skills against each other. This means getting as many people who are in the fighting field and having a reliable person (Joe Silva-like) match them regarding their skill levels. The more people appreciate the fights, the more people will want to see fights independent of the people, as they realize that there are raw talents that can compete in the sport that are duking it out alongside well-rounded players who can compete on an international level already.
The caveat here is of course if you want to go the UFC route and eventually set it up as a "feeder" Asian league for aspiring, legitimate UFC contenders; would actually make you look good vs places like PRIDE if that pans out.
(OT: Sheesh, first time in a few months I've done a quick and dirty but proper analysis of competitive climate.)
While most of what you have written is good, on a business side its a bit risky and what I want to avoid, I'll be burning the candle at both ends in terms of costs and with an open ended game plan, whatever success I get can lead to others re-entering into the market on some promotional bases thus undercutting what I've done or simply getting fighters to break contracts with me, etc. Until UFC launched TUF, they were down about 20M.
Now my investor was asked to invest in UFC about 3 times before TUF and so he knows the Fertitta brothers and Dana White quite well and I've some discussions with Joost the M-1 Global CEO (Fedor's company/agency) and this is always a huge issue as the cash outlay to build up a market is huge while the barriers to entry for others to take away your gains or disrupt your operations is aways a threat.
So these are the issues I'm contenting with at the moment, the issue with launching something like TUF right off the bat is that it requires the organization to commit to a huge upfront investment with no build up time, meaning to just make such show, you need to consider the double promotional aspect of promoting the show as well as the event. Now in the case where things are still very very local and grassroots, the promotion would run out of fight possibilities in a short order and basically we'd have shot our load before the right time. In the case of Strikeforce, while relatively stable, the still have huge issues with the depth of their fighter pool (of course this is an issue because of the level of fighters they are looking at) and it comes down to the same point that idra had made that I basically agreed with him, but what about the sustainability or growth; one or two events, yes, they could be good, but after that? In a different case here: how long would it take to scale up with what you've said here, and then how many competitive holes do we have in the process?
No, this problem isn't going to be solved with 'off the top of the head' solution, the solution isn't so obvious, and I can't assume that everyone who already tried in Korea haven't already done the obvious things... but thanks for the posts on it, it is keeping me on track to think about it, I think I have a solution, but I need to spend more time thinking about it. But please keep any new information coming as I don't live and breath this industry.
-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
Ciryandor United States. October 05 2010 15:49. Posts 3168
Glad to be able to contribute something to how UFC got started... should help you in understanding how that model worked and what can be done for a similar endeavor there.
Is this the venture for which you sought investors in your previous stories?
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
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