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| thedz United States. May 12 2011 18:54. Posts 207 | Profile Blog # |
(cross-posted at http://wellplayed.org/forum/1/thread/3435953/show)
I Fear No Elephant
The recent thought provoking article entitled The Elephant in the Room talks about the vast amounts of talent still fighting the good fight in Brood War. It compares win/loss statistics of current StarCraft II champions, and claims that due to that gulf in skill, current competition in StarCraft II is a farce.
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence. Where intrigue, author of Elephant in the Room, appears to see the current StarCraft II scene and yearn for the golden fields of Brood War, I have a different perspective.
I see the incredible wealth of talent in Brood War, and I could not be more excited for StarCraft II.
Because when that aging, still-proud beast finally marches to the elephant’s graveyard, the resulting migration of talent will mean even more high level games and even more nerdchills during even more epic matches.
The Good, the Bad, and the Bonjwas
Most fans of either Brood War or StarCraft II can agree on one thing: currently, as it is, there are more skilled players in Brood War than exist in Wings of Liberty. This should not be a controversial stance, or even an alarming one. Brood War carries the weight of thirteen years of existence. StarCraft II, meanwhile, currently suffers less than a year of retail existence.
Brood War’s training fields are intensely optimized to produce the best possible players for its fans. Over the past decade, player houses and teams have figured out what combination of rigorous schedule and dedication to the craft results in the most effective professionals. It shouldn’t be a surprise then, that in this crucible of constant competition, players like Flash and Jaedong are given the tools and experience needed to temper themselves into the sharply toned weapons they are today.
Meanwhile, that same kind of environment cannot currently be matched by StarCraft II. That, again, shouldn’t be a surprise. Still in its infancy compared to Brood War, StarCraft II is essentially at the pre-Brood War StarCraft 1 stage of development: the first expansion has not yet been released, and Blizzard still has ample opportunity and time to introduce new units, new mechanics, and new ways to engage the audience.
Would I say that Brood War players are good and StarCraft II players bad?
Perhaps, but not in those words. StarCraft II players are not bad, in an objective sense. They are merely not as good. And being not as good simply means, in my eyes, that as fans of the game, we are able to grow along with our favorite players. We are able to witness, first hand, the increase in skill as StarCraft II matures.
All Good Things
The current Brood War scene is in a weird spot. Though still popular in Korea (but steadily waning), the international Brood War scene has essentially shrunk to a core group of steadfast fans. Brood War games are just as exciting as they ever were, and Brood War players are just as enthralling to watch as before, but the momentum of the fan base, of the scene at large outside of Korea has shifted to the heir apparent.
Team Liquid, the largest English speaking community for both Brood War and StarCraft II, has largely shifted to the StarCraft II in terms of volume of community discussion. Though it still thoroughly covers Brood War, the excitement and attention of a large (if not majority) of its user base are focused on the sequel.
This is not a bad thing.
All good things eventually come to an end. But sometimes, the good times, that end leads to the birth of something even greater.
The Undiscovered Country
When I read over the stats of current Brood War players, when I see the amount of dedication they put into the game, my impatience to see players of that level of skill compete in StarCraft II reaches body-quivering levels.
Blizzard has put into StarCraft II a suite of observing tools that is unmatched by anything Brood War has to offer. From real time unit counts to live production bars, never before has StarCraft been able to engage the viewer in such a close fashion.
We’ll sidestep LAN 
When Brood War was released on top of vanilla StarCraft, the scene and the matches played in the game became immediately more intense and entertaining.
With two expansions still to come, the potential for an ever more interesting and ever more dynamic game is huge. Where some may see the potential for more patches and expansions as distracting from the pure competition of unfettered skill, I see the potential changes as simply making the game ever more relevant and ever more mature.
What It All Comes Down To
The fact that there are more skilled players in Brood War does not matter to me at all. I watch StarCraft II because I enjoy the game. I’m entertained by the matches, and the players playing those matches. I watched Brood War for much the same reasons.
When someone tells me then, that the higher skill levels in Brood War ruins their StarCraft II experience, or that it makes a farce of the competition in StarCraft II, the only response I’m able to give is a confused shrug.
So what? I enjoy StarCraft II, and if you’re telling me that the skill level is only going to increase as more Brood War players move to StarCraft II, then hell, I’m jumping for joy.
Or put more bluntly: when I’m sleeping with one girl, I am not thinking, “Shit, this would be so much better with two.”
Last edit: 2011-05-12 19:06:20
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| ionize Germany. May 12 2011 19:04. Posts 398 | Profile Blog # |
| I enjoyed the read. I like your opinion on the whole matter and agree in as much that SC2 is still in its infancy compared to SCBW. There are still more exciting things to come. I'm looking forward to it as well. |
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| MassArbiterFTW Australia. May 12 2011 19:05. Posts 51 | Profile Blog # |
I was hoping for a post about combatting the effects Pachydermophobia. This condition has destroyed my life in the last several years, leaving me a virtual cripple and recluse since I badly lost a pvz to ultralisks in 2001. The dissapointment of vainly raised and cruelly dashed hopes this blog has left me with defies my ability to express in the English language.
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| sc4k United Kingdom. May 12 2011 19:10. Posts 4570 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 19:05 MassArbiterFTW wrote:I was hoping for a post about combatting the effects Pachydermophobia. This condition has destroyed my life in the last several years, leaving me a virtual cripple and recluse since I badly lost a pvz to ultralisks in 2001. The dissapointment of vainly raised and cruelly dashed hopes this blog has left me with defies my ability to express in the English language.
jahaha I too thought I might finally discover a cure for my hated Pachydermophobia! Woe is us! |
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| thedz United States. May 12 2011 19:10. Posts 207 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 19:05 MassArbiterFTW wrote:I was hoping for a post about combatting the effects Pachydermophobia. This condition has destroyed my life in the last several years, leaving me a virtual cripple and recluse since I badly lost a pvz to ultralisks in 2001. The dissapointment of vainly raised and cruelly dashed hopes this blog has left me with defies my ability to express in the English language.
The solution is to void ray rush every single game. |
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doubleupgradeobbies!  Australia. May 12 2011 19:19. Posts 964 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 19:10 thedz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 19:05 MassArbiterFTW wrote:I was hoping for a post about combatting the effects Pachydermophobia. This condition has destroyed my life in the last several years, leaving me a virtual cripple and recluse since I badly lost a pvz to ultralisks in 2001. The dissapointment of vainly raised and cruelly dashed hopes this blog has left me with defies my ability to express in the English language.
The solution is to void ray rush every single game.
This is no laughing matter, I to am not ashamed to admit my struggle with pachydermophobia. Perhaps more galling is the lack of awareness society at large has for suffers of this condition. If you too could experience the anguish when another episode of baba is played, you would not dismiss this crippling condition so lightly >< |
| | MSL, 2003-2011, RIP. OSL, 2000-2012, RIP. Proleague, 2003-2012, RIP. And then there was none... Even good things must come to an end. |
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| Nazza Australia. May 12 2011 19:28. Posts 1521 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence.
BW teams are sponsored by some of the largest South Korean corporations. As long as those corporations keep sponsoring, the teams will keep going. There is no "stash of food". And no, some of the teams disbanding last year was not because of Sc2 or because of the pulling of plugs from sponsors, but because of a rather unfortunate match-fixing scandal. |
| | No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND | |
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| thedz United States. May 12 2011 19:30. Posts 207 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 19:28 Nazza wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence.
BW teams are sponsored by some of the largest South Korean corporations. As long as those corporations keep sponsoring, the teams will keep going. There is no "stash of food". And no, some of the teams disbanding last year was not because of Sc2 or because of the pulling of plugs from sponsors, but because of a rather unfortunate match-fixing scandal.
But they're not giving out money out of the goodness of their hearts. Sponsorships come due to viewership, and judging by live viewership, it's on a downward spiral. IMO, it's not a matter of if Brood War gives way to SC2, but when.
Though honestly, I'm not sure about online viewings, so I could be completely wrong there. Last edit: 2011-05-12 19:31:56 |
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| TheAmazombie United States. May 12 2011 19:35. Posts 3657 | Profile Blog # |
Great comments I I think you totally summed up the way that I am feeling about this article. I think there are some valid points, but people, the game is young and has not evolved yet! Give it time!
Thanks for the great post. |
| | We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin |
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| Nazza Australia. May 12 2011 19:41. Posts 1521 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 19:30 thedz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 19:28 Nazza wrote:
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence.
BW teams are sponsored by some of the largest South Korean corporations. As long as those corporations keep sponsoring, the teams will keep going. There is no "stash of food". And no, some of the teams disbanding last year was not because of Sc2 or because of the pulling of plugs from sponsors, but because of a rather unfortunate match-fixing scandal.
But they're not giving out money out of the goodness of their hearts. Sponsorships come due to viewership, and judging by live viewership, it's on a downward spiral. IMO, it's not a matter of if Brood War gives way to SC2, but when. Though honestly, I'm not sure about online viewings, so I could be completely wrong there.
Well, tbh, viewers follow game quality. As long as TBLS remains playing at their caliber, and no one replaces them, then BW will keep going strong.
And Flash just graduated from high school. High school. It's gonna take quite some time imo before the ball rolls in the SC2 direction. Maybe even after HoTS and LotV. |
| | No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND | |
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 Kipsate Netherlands. May 12 2011 20:08. Posts 19032 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 19:30 thedz wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 19:28 Nazza wrote:
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence.
BW teams are sponsored by some of the largest South Korean corporations. As long as those corporations keep sponsoring, the teams will keep going. There is no "stash of food". And no, some of the teams disbanding last year was not because of Sc2 or because of the pulling of plugs from sponsors, but because of a rather unfortunate match-fixing scandal.
But they're not giving out money out of the goodness of their hearts. Sponsorships come due to viewership, and judging by live viewership, it's on a downward spiral. IMO, it's not a matter of if Brood War gives way to SC2, but when. Though honestly, I'm not sure about online viewings, so I could be completely wrong there.
What do you mean by live viewership, live attendance, TV or Internet?
Question though:Why isn't this in the TLFE thread?.Last edit: 2011-05-12 20:13:00 |
| | Park Ji Yeon/Ye Eun/Kang Min Kyung, T-ara/Wonder Girls/Davichi |
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| Lucumo May 12 2011 20:20. Posts 4519 | Profile # |
On May 12 2011 20:08 Kipsate wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 19:30 thedz wrote:
On May 12 2011 19:28 Nazza wrote:
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence.
BW teams are sponsored by some of the largest South Korean corporations. As long as those corporations keep sponsoring, the teams will keep going. There is no "stash of food". And no, some of the teams disbanding last year was not because of Sc2 or because of the pulling of plugs from sponsors, but because of a rather unfortunate match-fixing scandal.
But they're not giving out money out of the goodness of their hearts. Sponsorships come due to viewership, and judging by live viewership, it's on a downward spiral. IMO, it's not a matter of if Brood War gives way to SC2, but when. Though honestly, I'm not sure about online viewings, so I could be completely wrong there.
What do you mean by live viewership, live attendance, TV or Internet? Question though:Why isn't this in the TLFE thread?.
You should ask for numbers as well, to back up his claim. |
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| Rustug May 12 2011 20:35. Posts 1033 | Profile # |
I enjoyed the article. It's well thought out and gives a good perspective.
I hope this show admins like EvilTeletubby that there is maturity on both sides of the SC fence and that you can engage in a mature discussion with an SC2 fan. |
| | Finding owns weakness is a positive thing. *Lim Yo-Hwan |
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| Kipsate Netherlands. May 12 2011 20:36. Posts 19032 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 20:35 Rustug wrote:
I enjoyed the article. It's well thought out and gives a good perspective.
I hope this show admins like EvilTeletubby that there is maturity on both sides of the SC fence and that you can engage in a mature discussion with an SC2 fan.
If that discussion right now in the article is mature then I don't know what a mature discussion is. |
| | Park Ji Yeon/Ye Eun/Kang Min Kyung, T-ara/Wonder Girls/Davichi |
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 xarthaz May 12 2011 20:42. Posts 1697 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
Because when that aging, still-proud beast finally marches to the elephant’s graveyard, the resulting migration of talent will mean even more high level games and even more nerdchills during even more epic matches.
But they're not giving out money out of the goodness of their hearts. Sponsorships come due to viewership, and judging by live viewership, it's on a downward spiral. IMO, it's not a matter of if Brood War gives way to SC2, but when.
Last edit: 2011-05-12 19:31:56
Though honestly, I'm not sure about online viewings, so I could be completely wrong there.
Oh come on dude, its the other way around. At least be honest with the facts if youre gonna post opinion pieces. SC BW continues to be way more popular than SC2 in the korean audience, almost a year after its release.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200935
Meanwhile, that same kind of environment cannot currently be matched by StarCraft II. That, again, shouldn’t be a surprise. Still in its infancy compared to Brood War, StarCraft II is essentially at the pre-Brood War StarCraft 1 stage of development: the first expansion has not yet been released, and Blizzard still has ample opportunity and time to introduce new units, new mechanics, and new ways to engage the audience.
Seriously? There arent gonna be any huge changes with the expansions. Blizzard themselves has said that the expansions are gonna be about the single player content, not radical gameplay alterations.Last edit: 2011-05-12 20:44:31 |
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| BLinD-RawR India. May 12 2011 20:44. Posts 25212 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 20:36 Kipsate wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 20:35 Rustug wrote:
I enjoyed the article. It's well thought out and gives a good perspective.
I hope this show admins like EvilTeletubby that there is maturity on both sides of the SC fence and that you can engage in a mature discussion with an SC2 fan.
If that discussion right now in the article is mature then I don't know what a mature discussion is.
90% of the complaints I read were of the tone of the post.
hilarious,people misunderstand the fact that intrigue wants more from the players,DAMN IT I WANT MORE FROM THE PLAYERS!!!! |
| | Ultimate KT Rolster Fanboy!| Afrotoss Fan #3|Neo.G_Soulkey – I was a better child than ZerO| Woo Jung Ho, never forget.| I want to make a game that will surpass Brood War!!! That is my dream.|"My body is not ready"-Soulkey | |
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| Rustug May 12 2011 20:58. Posts 1033 | Profile # |
On May 12 2011 20:36 Kipsate wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
On May 12 2011 20:35 Rustug wrote:
I enjoyed the article. It's well thought out and gives a good perspective.
I hope this show admins like EvilTeletubby that there is maturity on both sides of the SC fence and that you can engage in a mature discussion with an SC2 fan.
If that discussion right now in the article is mature then I don't know what a mature discussion is.
I'm not saying that all the discussion is mature, but I'm able to separate most of the fluff from anything interesting and of value. And I feel a bit offended when admins engage the fluff more than the discussion.
I value the opinions of admins and those of the pro-players, but sometimes they can be a bit patronizing.
Last edit: 2011-05-12 21:03:18 |
| | Finding owns weakness is a positive thing. *Lim Yo-Hwan |
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| corumjhaelen France. May 12 2011 21:36. Posts 4896 | Profile Blog # |
I read your article with interest. In fact I see very few difference in what your saying compared to the original article, except in tone.
And as I already said in the TLFE comments, I don't see any evidence of bw dying, rather the contrary. |
| | numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset |
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| Oozo Finland. May 12 2011 21:49. Posts 420 | Profile # |
Saying that community in teamliquid has switched mostly in sc2 is just absurd. Even if I watch both scenes does not mean I have to choose 1. I doubt those who were here before sc2 launched have changed their perspective to bw hating and completely stopped watching or cheering for it.
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:All good things eventually come to an end. But sometimes, the good times, that end leads to the birth of something even greater.
I have really hard time understanding what anyone is trying to achieve with stating that? Please just stop doing that and don't presume things you can't actually prove. Is korean bw scene dead? Is foreigner scene? No, its not. |
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| Toboe United States. May 12 2011 22:16. Posts 270 | Profile Blog # |
On May 12 2011 18:54 thedz wrote:
But Brood War -- that elephant in the room -- is also an animal stuck in a corner, surviving on the stashes of food and goodwill it has managed to collect over more than a decade of existence.
Thank you for writing this so well. I was going to also write a response to that editorial in a similar vein, but wouldn't have come up with such eloquent prose.
In fact, when I saw the title for the original editorial, I thought it was going to be about BW dying out, not as a game, but as a community activity outside of Korea - and that is the biggest elephant in the room for the teamliquid community right now. I was hoping it was going to be a mature leap from the writing staff to actually get excited about the potential that SC2 has, instead of yet another post denouncing SC2 and proclaiming how it's infantile stages can never be compared to old-man BW.
It's fine to be critical of the SC2 scene, and it's important to do so especially this early in development. However, that editorial did not come across to me as constructive to what SC2 can improve to ensure longevity, but instead as a childish "my game could beat up your game" rant.
I believe the players will improve, the money will increase, and the scene will grow for SC2. It's looks more likely that the opposite will happen for BW, and that's an elephant that I don't think can even fit in the room. |
| | Immortals are your friend, you can tell by the way they waddle at you |
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