 Liquid`Sheth United States. November 15 2011 13:47. Posts 2026 | Profile Blog # |
Hey everyone,
I'm about to go to sleep and just wanted to ask a question. How much effort do you think it would be to put subtitles in casts? I wonder how much it would cost MLG to just add on the stream subtitles? I suggest this for those who can't watch with sound on, or for people who are deaf. Anyway, this isn't too much of a poll or a question, but I'd really like to see something done on this matter.
I don't really see any reason why there isn't some sort of Subtitles already on most casts. If its expensive I can understand it. Even on streams I wonder if there is a way to add a subtitle feature? I guess I need to talk to Twitch.tv about it as well. I know youtube has some sort of instant subtitling that is done automatically. Something like this would really help out those who can't hear casts.
Is this something that you think is important community? Or would we rather wait a while on this and work on other things first? I'm honestly curious how all of you feel this rates up there. I'd really like to see this implemented ASAP in most big tournaments. Lets spread our product out and this sort of thing will really appeal to a certain crowd.
Anyway.. TL:DR "Subtitles for deaf people and those who just enjoy subtitles. How important to you and should big tournaments use them? For example MLG."
I only ask this, because I've never heard or thought about this, but someone PM'ed me asking me to bring up this subject because they are deaf. Now I think its a valid concern. Thoughts?
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| | Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault. |
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 flamewheel HANG KANG. November 15 2011 13:50. Posts 21520 | Profile Blog # |
| I'd be a fan. I used to watch movies and TV shows with the old CC captioning, even if it was slightly delayed. No hearing problems or whatsoever... I just enjoy reading. |
| | Clouds are making way for me. | |
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| Angra United States. November 15 2011 13:50. Posts 2082 | Profile Blog # |
I'm not sure the technology is there yet, looking at current automated subtitle systems. I might be totally wrong about this however. Regardless I'm all for it, if it's possible.
If you look at Youtube's automated subtitles, about 90% of the words are just flat out wrong compared to what they are saying in the video. The only thing that I could see working at this point is hiring a professional to physically type up the subtitles as they listen to the stream and have a way of implementing them in real time. I know I've seen them do this for other certain broadcasts, don't remember exactly what at the moment though.Last edit: 2011-11-15 13:53:08 |
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| Sliver United States. November 15 2011 13:51. Posts 363 | Profile # |
| Uh how? This would only work on VODs I believe? |
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| taldarimAltar November 15 2011 13:52. Posts 844 | Profile Blog # |
| Live subtitles would be hard i think? But subtitles we be good, even for those able to hear, especially if you've got 2 or 4 streams going on at once |
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| sugatooth United States. November 15 2011 13:53. Posts 52 | Profile # |
The fact that there are dead SC2 fans should be enough to want to implement subtitles  I expect it will be kind of tough to figure out though, especially on a live stream (I don't really know how it works on TV). |
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| TranceStorm November 15 2011 13:53. Posts 1616 | Profile Blog # |
On November 15 2011 13:50 Angra wrote:
I'm not sure the technology is there yet. I might be totally wrong about this however. Regardless I'm all for it, if it's possible.
If you look at Youtube's automated subtitles, about 90% of the words are just flat out wrong compared to what they are saying in the video. The only thing that I could see working at this point is hiring a professional to physically type up the subtitles as they listen to the stream and have a way of implementing them in real time. I know they do this for other certain broadcasts, don't remember exactly what at the moment though.
Yeah CC captioning is exceptionally difficult to get right without human interaction given that other sounds will interfere as well (i.e. game sounds, music, keyboard sounds). I have no clue how Youtube is even able to get close to being sometimes right on their captioning. |
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| ZisforZerg United States. November 15 2011 13:55. Posts 224 | Profile Blog # |
| interesting, but I don't think this is a major concern for tournament organizers (which I am sure you already know). I totally agree with this however. |
| | "I'm too drunk, to taste that chicken." |
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| Liquid`Sheth United States. November 15 2011 13:56. Posts 2026 | Profile Blog # |
| Ahh... Well then I geuss the question is just how much is it to have someone do live subtitles in person. Then if its worth the cost. I wonder if its being looked into. I would really like some subtitles and I think e-sports will eventually need them. I geuss the question is just when and who will be first to do it. Its not a "Huge" deal, but its something small that I think would generate a lot of good publicity for the organization that does this. Some good points though that this woudln't be easy and the youtube thing is probably impossible to use for this yea. Interesting points though! |
| | Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault. |
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| Satyric November 15 2011 13:56. Posts 68 | Profile # |
On November 15 2011 13:50 Angra wrote:
The only thing that I could see working at this point is hiring a professional to physically type up the subtitles as they listen to the stream and have a way of implementing them in real time. I know I've seen them do this for other certain broadcasts, don't remember exactly what at the moment though.
I don't see this working at all (in real time). The time to translate cannot be faster than the broadcast itself, so the speed of which you translate will always be slower than the actual broadcast.
This means you need a pretty big delay, especially for long broadcasts. |
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| Zarathusta United States. November 15 2011 13:56. Posts 100 | Profile # |
| You can live subtitle casts the same way as TV I bet. It would require a stenographer (court room typist) which would obviously add to the cost of the event. I'm not sure if the programs used for steaming would support it though, you would have to talk to JTV. And as stated about adding text to VODs is probably very doable, but that's a lot of typing to do. |
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| hacklebeast United States. November 15 2011 13:58. Posts 4635 | Profile Blog # |
| If it existed, I would use them. But I don't think it's feasible for starcraft. Starcraft casters talk a lot faster and use big words (like say mutalisk) a lot more than the casters for sports that do use real time CC. Even CBS broadcasting a football game only picks up about half of what the commentators are saying. I'd be surprised if a professional could get 1/5 of a starcraft cast typed out. |
| | Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero |
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| ImDrizzt Norway. November 15 2011 13:59. Posts 340 | Profile Blog # |
| I got an even BETTER idea!!. What if we had a constant image of Tasteless down at the bottom right, and in that square he could preform sign language.... Fuck it, have the text as well, but don't scrap out Tasteless. Owh man, I'm not even joking, this is a wonderful idea Sheth Pheth. |
| | Link to my serious blog, where I am serious and spreads truth, knowledge and "serious" stuff: http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=982066 |
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| Angra United States. November 15 2011 13:59. Posts 2082 | Profile Blog # |
On November 15 2011 13:56 Satyric wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:50 Angra wrote:
The only thing that I could see working at this point is hiring a professional to physically type up the subtitles as they listen to the stream and have a way of implementing them in real time. I know I've seen them do this for other certain broadcasts, don't remember exactly what at the moment though.
I don't see this working at all (in real time). The time to translate cannot be faster than the broadcast itself, so the speed of which you translate will always be slower than the actual broadcast. This means you need a pretty big delay, especially for long broadcasts.
I know I've seen it before, though like I said I can't remember what kind of broadcast it was. It's like people who actually have the profession of typing what they hear extremely fast etc. and it basically works in real time, where what they type instantly goes on the screen letter for letter. No idea how rare/expensive someone who does that for a living is, though. |
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| Liquid`Sheth United States. November 15 2011 14:00. Posts 2026 | Profile Blog # |
| Ok, going to sleep for real. I geuss the only viable way is to use a court room typist or someone else who would be able to type very fast. And we don't know if the streaming platform would be able to handle it at all.. Hm,.. Still something to think about though. I'm sure there are other ways to make it easier for those who are deaf as well? Maybe having a sign language stream? I wonder if that would be a cheaper option then having the words typed. And I doubt it would get many watchers, huh.... I wonder when the first sign language stream will take place. At least I know I've never seen one! Last edit: 2011-11-15 14:00:54 |
| | Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault. |
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| Caphe Vietnam. November 15 2011 14:00. Posts 7347 | Profile Blog # |
I don't think putting sub on live cast are that easy and low cost. But putting them on VOD sounds really good and very doable(still gonna cost extra though).
SC2 is quite self-explain by itself (I mean if you understand how the game works, you will know what going on even w.o any sound). The main attractive point of casting is it brings more excitement into the game. So if you are going to read it, it brings no excitement whatsoever.
My point being, even for deaf people you still can understand most things going on w.o any sound at all. Sound/casters are there to bring a little bit of info and EXCITEMENT but you can't feel that with reading the caption.
I can see this would work on premium VOD services but not on live cast or free VOD.
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| BudgetTheLeech United States. November 15 2011 14:02. Posts 89 | Profile # |
Glad to see a pro player talk about this. I come from a family with a deaf brother and father, so I know the struggles that come with it.
As for live captioning, I think it would be really tough, unless you got someone who had a very high and accurate words per minute typing skill. I really think that some tournaments should at least test this out, see how it works and work from there. It's nice to see people caring for the less fortunate, even in eSports it makes a huge difference even discussing it for those people I'm sure. |
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| SCPlato United States. November 15 2011 14:02. Posts 239 | Profile Blog # |
| I think it is expensive and real time would be difficult I imagine. having someone type that fast for that long would be hard. Also casters talking over each other and interrupting would make it even more difficult. I would like to see it done eventually though. would let some people enjoy it who otherwise would only be able to watch and not hear it. |
| | All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince. -Plato | |
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| Klondikebar United States. November 15 2011 14:09. Posts 1523 | Profile # |
Systems like Google Talk and Siri are quite intelligent. I think the technology for voice to text is there but implementation might be an obstacle.
I think as a major improvement for the accessibility of esports, it should happen fairly soon. But I'm not quite prepared to whine at people or speak with my dollar.
Real time is out of the question. Given how much verbage goes on in heavy action, expecting someone to instantly take it all to text is unreasonable IMO. |
| | I think you need another drink. |
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| CylerBelmont United States. November 15 2011 14:09. Posts 33 | Profile # |
| there are ccs on live tv though...so why not live stream? i think it's a great idea. if not for normal streams then at least for events like mlg. |
| | I only know two languages: English and Bad English |
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