I think - for some reason - a lot of people are failing to note something about the Korean mentality.
What is the one line THEY ALL SAY in interviews? 'I hope to give good games'.
Heck, in the finals just gone one of them, in his interview, referenced the GSL curse and hoped that this would be the finals to break it. They genuinely care about entertaining the fans, so to them, what Naniwa did was a complete dick move.
And the difference is that a probe rush can't ever win. It's the same as just GGing as soon as the game loads, with a few more explosions. It's not like going for broke on a 2 gate base proxy. If that's not scouted it has a genuine chance to win and I think it's been used in GSL at least once.
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
On December 13 2011 21:48 0ne wrote: [quote] That was in an online tournament not in the fucking GSL against Nestea
He 6 pooled Jinro in GSL, essentially the same. Idra didn't think he could win he did it because he was pissed.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Idra had planned to 6 pool on Jungle Basin before the series started because it was an unwinnable map ZvT and it almost worked.
I have every idea what I'm talking about. Idra didn't think he would win with that 6 pool.
There is a difference between not thinking you will win and not trying to win. IdrA didn't like his chances but he picked the strat that he thought would give him the best chance and went for it. Naniwa a-moved his probes and took his hands off the keyboard
If you think 6 pool on a map that's so easy to wall of is the best chance you have you're delusional. He would have left instantly if there had been a wall there.
This was a premeditated strategy. He even discussed it with others the day before the match. Have you even seen it? He almost won.
Of course I've seen it. I know it was premeditated. It was still a stupid strategy because he didn't think he could win before the match started.
But he was actually still trying to win with it which is the point you seem completely incapable of understanding.
If Naniwa had done a proxy 2-Gate or something and actually tried to micro his Zealots and win the game then people would be looking at this differently. A lot of people would still be a bit annoyed but you wouldn't see anywhere near as much criticism as you are now.
The point is that Naniwa intentionally lost the game. He didn't even micro his Probes, he a-moved and took his hands off the keyboard. He might as well have just called gg and quit 5 seconds in.
So many people have explained the difference to you by now and I hope you can finally get it through your head.
Hahaha omg i just love hotheaded nerds who overreact to EVERYTHING. REAL NaNiwa fans who know NaNiwa's personality and appreciates him only thinks this is funny. I thought it was funny.
And NaNiwa did it for his REAL fans. The fans that understand him and don't overreact on a small thing like a match that doesn't matter.
People need to get a hobby instead of being bitches about everything that naniwa does that they don't like. People who don't like naniwa are overreacting. Hating for silly reasons.
I've been a Naniwa fan for a long time and although I don't approve of what he did, I'm still his fan now.
But if you think this was some secret shout out to his real fans then you are deluded. He was thinking of no one but himself.
On December 13 2011 21:52 LittLeD wrote: The fact that so many Swedes defend this behaviour is embarrassing to say the least. Naniwa is the worst kind of representative a country could ever have.
some of these swedish fans would still defending if he murdered nestea on a livestream
To be fair its not just the swedish fans, its all the naniwa fanatics, however I imagine that if Naniwa stabbed Nestea on stream the response would look something like this:
After Naniwa stabs Nestea right before a deciding game, a Defensive Naniwa Fan wrote:
Come on guys, I know it was a little extreme, but I think its a legitimate strategy, I mean by making sure Nestea can no longer compete he guarantees himself a spot in the finals. Also, there is nothing in the rules that says that you *can't* brutally eviscerate your opponent to make sure you get a spot in the finals. This is just Naniwa exploring other avenues of play. The Koreans are just upset because he is a foreigner and he made sure Nestea won't win. Get over it, Naniwa FIGHTING!
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" The measure of a terrible day is when you go to bed thinking "man, I wish the zombie apocalypse would start already"
On December 13 2011 21:42 coddan wrote: I think it's a tad bit hypocritical of Choya since he is one of very few who have actually been banned from GSL in the past for cheating the system
Yes but hes Korean so he gets a free pass. Thats how it works in the community. Naniwa is on the same level on savior judging by most comments. I think its sad that the korean players get as much support as they do from within our community when there is none from their side.
I completely agree with you. Foreigners and Koreans need to unite, but we can't keep having this lopsided relationship. Eventually, when the foreign players are just as good (consistently) as the Koreans, I think the relationship will balance out a bit.
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character." - Albert Einstein
MayorITC Korea (South). December 13 2011 22:21. Posts 742
On December 13 2011 22:05 careohx wrote: "@MVPGuineapig: There's so many people who can't compete in leagues even if they want to.. are you mocking them?" Those players should get better and qualify.
They didn't qualify because they lacked the finances/opportunities to participate in all the tournaments Naniwa has. This is backed up by Naniwa's mediocre record in Korea, showing that Naniwa isn't worthy of a tournament that's supposed to have the best 10 players in the world.
You look like you're desperately trying to justify your overreaction. Just chill. Nobody will judge you, I mean you didn't worker rush, did you?
Great! One tournament where he doesn't win!
Now let me cite another tournament. It's called the Blizzard Cup (0-4). Oh wait, let me cite another tournament. Code A GSL August (0-2). And yet another tournament... Code A October (0-2). And Code A November (0-2).
Femari United States. December 13 2011 22:21. Posts 2836
In professional sports leagues, you never see teams throw games. Never. Even if they are eliminated from playoffs, they may not play their best players. The guys that do play, they play their hearts out to make the team next year. I didn't like this guy before and I like him less now.
If a fat girl falls in a forest, do the trees laugh?
Matsumoto Germany. December 13 2011 22:22. Posts 453
i love how people on the one seide always say something like "ESPORT needs to grow", "We need Starcraft on Tv" etc. but then support someone like Naniwa who acts in such an embarassing and childish way
Fk it ,BAYLIFE? BAYLIFE
Sadistx Zimbabwe. December 13 2011 22:22. Posts 5474
On December 13 2011 22:18 Treziel wrote: Honestly the reaction from so many people trying to justify this kind of behaviour shows why no foreigners can compete with Koreans. I've never been so angry watching any professional sport before. Obviously most of the fan base are immature idiots who don't take it seriously whatsoever so look: if you think Naniwa's actions here should just be let go or just be passed off as a 'a bit of fun' then you are wrong, just flat out wrong. GOM should remove his S class and ban him from participating for at least 1 season. If a Korean had done this, I am almost positive that even if GOM didn't take action, they would have been kicked out of their team and blacklisted and no other team would ever touch them again no matter how good they are, it is so fucking disrespectful to everyone.
because in korea, esports is serious business. its tv broadcasted and has a real place in their culture
whereas ppl in the west would like like "chill out its just a game that didnt matter"
OMGKEI Australia. December 13 2011 22:23. Posts 576
On December 13 2011 21:53 Kappa09 wrote: I don't get the attitude of the people here. Try to make a real world comparison to main stream sports just to see how wrong Naniwa was. How would you feel if the Green Bay Packers were 0-12 (obviously not true, so can't offend anyone) in the season and obviously had no chance of making the playoffs/superbowl, and then they went on to purposely lose their remaining games by sitting on the sidelines or just screwing around in front of thousands of live spectators and millions of spectators watching on television. Their fans and football fans alike would be absolutely outraged and this would be completely unacceptable. Do you think it's fair for everyone involved with the team or game that they weren't shown a true game like they were promised?
Do you watch the NFL? You actually described what DOSE happen. When a team gos 12-0 or 0-12 they start pulling players to keep them fresh for the playoffs. Also the fans KNOW and UNDERSTAND that the game is meaningless, the ratings show it. On the Sportscenters and related shows all of them understand the game was meaningless, they repeat it over and over, barely skimming it over. Your comparison is very misguided.
The difference is that they do play the game. What Naniwa did was throw the game, he took his hands off the keyboard, there was zero chance of him winning.
I could understand why someone who dose not watch the NFL would say that. But it is not true in the slightest. If you think second string QB's and WR's can beat another NFL team that is actually trying with starters.... there is nothing to discuss.
The same thing happens in real football as well. When there is nothing on the line teams will send out a reserve/youth side that has no real chance of winning*. Sometimes teams even send out a reserve side in a game that actually matters just to rest players for an even more important match - and in a league format almost every game will influence the teams around you even if it doesn't influence your own team.
So yeah, this does happen in real sports.
It was still a dick move. Nani still could have proxied 2 gates in the middle of the map or something. But the end result was always going to be a disappointing game. That just happens when competitive players play a non-competitive match.
* well some of the biggest teams have pretty sick reserve lineups but that's just at the top