Hello Teamliquid! How was your laddering this week? Has everybody you faced played nice? Did you have a great time? Has everybody you faced used a mouse and keyboard? Did you ever think about asking?
Don't know how many people considered the possibility of using other controllers for SC2, and have actually gone with it anywhere, but now it's definitely happening.
The plan: Play Starcraft 2 with a tablet (replaces mouse motion) and arcade stick (replaces mouse buttons and keyboard).
With no further ado, here's a sample video:
Advantages to tablet over mouse: frankly they're both equally good, I just happen to have faster movement and better accuracy with the tablet, so hopefully this will help splitting bio units faster against AoE.
Advantages to using an arcade stick over a keyboard: I have a 6Gv2 and it's great, but arcade sticks have larger buttons and the layout makes it easier to tap inputs quickly. Maybe? Who knows. Disadvantages: Not enough buttons to bind everything. But that's ok! Many buttons are useless anyway (not planning to build BCs, ever).
So, lets hear your opinions TL: 1 - If I try to go to tournies like that, will that be acceptable? I honestly see no reason why not, but lets hear. 2 - Now that you've seen this, would you try doing something like this too? Maybe playing SC2 with a PS3Move (for cursor motion) and DDR pad (for buttons)?
Time to practice!
[EDIT] Scroll down to see a lot of answers to common questions about this setup.
Last edit: 2012-04-01 07:14:54
Reavers. Lurkers. Vultures. Defilers. Corsairs. Vessels. Why did they remove all the cool units from SC2...?
Rinny United States. April 01 2012 06:48. Posts 518
so just out of curiousity what do you have binded to your 6 buttons? left click and right click maybe, unless your tablet pen comes with those options already?
Down = Tab Most down-right button = Shift Start = Ctrl
ZXCVA are used for hotkeys. A is normally attack move, doh. I bind all of my buildings into group 2, and then to macro I just input UP -> mash Z for scvs -> DOWN -> mash X/C for rine/marauder -> DOWN -> mash whatever keys I need for factories -> DOWN -> starports, etc
I keep all of the units inside my base on the 1 group, and all of my units that moved out on the 3 group. This is usually enough to keep track of my entire army. To micro I just double-tap a dash motion to jump the screen into my units and then select manually, since it's pretty fast with the tablet, and micro everything on spot.
The tablet pen never touches the ground. Left/Right click is done purely with the arcade stick, and the tablet pen always hovers.
By the way I played BW as a C+ zerg, and I never laddered in SC2 before until now (except for season1 when I got into diamond in like 20 games and then quit SC2) but I played private 1v1s recently with some friends and any opponent up to Diamond seemed trivial to me. I'm hoping to get into masters quickly and start streaming gameplay with this setup.
Last edit: 2012-04-01 06:56:27
Reavers. Lurkers. Vultures. Defilers. Corsairs. Vessels. Why did they remove all the cool units from SC2...?
No Pughy this is not April fools. Sorry for the timing of posting this haha, this is very real. I even recorded a video for you to see and believe. This is going to continue. Practice in ON.
iglocska: I do have a keyboard on my table in front of me, as you can see in the video. If I want to chat at some point I just use the keyboard. The arcade stick sits on my lap and doesn't interrupt this. As for APM, it was terribly low right now, because I didn't know what I'm doing lol. I need to practice this until all of the key locations become natural for my muscle memory, and then APM will start to matter.
Last edit: 2012-04-01 06:58:39
Reavers. Lurkers. Vultures. Defilers. Corsairs. Vessels. Why did they remove all the cool units from SC2...?
there is a contest on shoryuken(essentially the fighting game equivalent of the teamliquid site) where people are supposed to design an arcade stick that would work with sc2. According to the thread, the winner will be featured on the Sotg podcast, so that's pretty cool.
Last edit: 2012-04-01 06:59:59
Team NSHoseo <3
LunarDestiny United States. April 01 2012 06:58. Posts 4160
There was once a game called Starcraft 64. Maybe a Starcraft 360 is coming.
Playing with anything other than mouse and keyboard is like playing on hard mode.
Hyuk Fancafe Member #2: If life gives you no shit, then don't take that shit.------------------------------------------ Offical Hyuk Fansafe: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125281
Weaklink123 United States. April 01 2012 07:00. Posts 155
If it allows you to have fun then I say go for it. Starcraft 2 is meant to be fun first after all. If you want to become a pro then obviously this setup is bad based on issues of tournament equipment rules, but if you just are doing it to be different then go for it .
P.S. looks like a cool set up
"The Only Thing To Fear Is Fear Itself" 우정호 (KT Violet) - 1988 - 2012.
Azuroz: I know of it, but it doesn't interest me the Hori is, in many people's opinions, the best arcade stick out right now (great response time, reliability, tap speed, etc) and it's all I'm planning to use for this.
...what's with all the people saying this is bad for competitive play? I'm seriously faster with the tablet than a mouse, and it's more convenient for me to tap on a stick over a keyboard. Once I get used to this I'm planning to have better speed than with mouse/keyboard, so if anything this will be *better* for competitive play. Is there any reason tournies would ban this setup? I'm not using any turbo buttons or macros, it's essentially the same controller as everybody else with just a different physical layout. (although tablet detection works differently than mouse...)
Last edit: 2012-04-01 07:02:39
Reavers. Lurkers. Vultures. Defilers. Corsairs. Vessels. Why did they remove all the cool units from SC2...?
Grovbolle Denmark. April 01 2012 07:04. Posts 2561
On April 01 2012 07:00 Aqo[il] wrote: ...what's with all the people saying this is bad for competitive play? I'm seriously faster with the tablet than a mouse, and it's more convenient for me to tap on a stick over a keyboard. Once I get used to this I'm planning to have better speed than with mouse/keyboard, so if anything this will be *better* for competitive play.
Maybe you are faster with that layout, but what is your APM? If you go from 50 to 60, then that still means it is horrible, can you push your setup to around 300? Like most pros?
GIVE ME COMMAND - Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com - @Sc2Aligulac - "I don't want Losira to go through because he is Zerg, but because he is Losira, he transcends all race" - TheBB
Yeah I don't see how you could possibly have everything you need hotkeyed. There is just way too many different buttons required to play efficiently at a relatively high apm.
So OP I ask you, go through your last few replays with this setup and tell me your average APM, I'm curious. And also your not using any macros right?
Definitely doesn't seem useful at all compared to a mouse and keyboard. Considering the game was made for a mouse and keyboard that would definitely be the most efficient tools to play with.
ZAiNs United Kingdom. April 01 2012 07:06. Posts 3465
mmm never thought about tablet + arcade xD, though i sometimes play mouse only or inverted. Mouse only apm is pretty much the same, thank god my hands are diablo 1 trained. Tryed keyboard only, but aiming is ugh.
Grovbolle: I personally knew an A- Zerg player on iCCup from Finland who had 140apm. Very high apm isn't really necessary to be good, not to mention SC2 needs much lower apm than BW. When I play fighters with the stick my apm is probably at least 200~ depending on the input I'm required to put in. My tap speed on it is 12.45kps, which is potentially 750 apm - but that means clicking all the time nonstop. In reality, I'll only be clicking the things I need when I need them. Either way, a potential 750apm peak means this is going to be fast enough for whatever I'll need.
Berailfor: I only started using this setup now. I have barely even 1 hour practice on it at the time of recording this video. My APM with this setup right now is shit, simply because my muscle memory isn't used to the button locations, so APM is completely irrelevant now. Once I get used to it and my fingers will naturally know where to go to click things APM will be pretty solid. As for the amount of buttons, watch this:
On April 01 2012 07:07 Aqo[il] wrote: Grovbolle: I personally knew an A- Zerg player on iCCup from Finland who had 140apm. Very high apm isn't really necessary to be good, not to mention SC2 needs much lower apm than BW. When I play fighters with the stick my apm is probably at least 200~ depending on the input I'm required to put in. My tap speed on it is 12.45kps, which is potentially 750 apm - but that means clicking all the time nonstop. In reality, I'll only be clicking the things I need when I need them. Either way, a potential 750apm peak means this is going to be fast enough for whatever I'll need.
If you can do it, I am impressed, no doubt about it. But for now, I will wait with my praises 'till I see the effect of a lot of training hours with this setup. Also, good timing with the 1st of April
Edit: about the tournaments you were talking about, If you are going to take a lot longer to get setup, and if you need some 3rd party program, I'm not sure they would allow it.
Last edit: 2012-04-01 07:25:53
GIVE ME COMMAND - Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com - @Sc2Aligulac - "I don't want Losira to go through because he is Zerg, but because he is Losira, he transcends all race" - TheBB
Guess its possible. I still just don't see it being as effective as keyboard and mouse. I suppose some people do have a knack for these kinds of things though.
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the Hori is, in many people's opinions, the best arcade stick out right now (great response time, reliability, tap speed, etc) and it's all I'm planning to use for this.
