Beatrice and Luara

After a couple weeks of fascination on this subject, I've decided to share it and my thoughts with team liquid!

So to start, Beatrice Portinari was a Florintine woman of the 1300's who caught the eyes of none other than Dante Alighieri, who described her as maternal, radiant and comforting and gentilissima and benedetta meaning "most kind" and "blessed". To properly understand this we will need some back-round information on Dante Alighieri himself though. Dante Alighieri was a poet and moral philosopher most known for his two masterpieces La Vita Nuova and La Divina Commedia (The Divine Comedy). Beatrice herself is a character and subject in both books.

Now you might be asking yourself "whats so special about her that this man would make a blog post?" well i'll tell you now. Dante met her once when he was 9 years old and she was 8 years old and was so enthralled by her that he later wrote "Ecce Deus fortior me, qui veniens dominabitur mihi" which means "Behold, a deity stronger than I; who coming, shall rule over me.". Now the specific concept that excites me is that Dante created Beatrice out of nothing, referring to her as "La gloriosa donna della mia mente", which means "the glorious lady of my mind". The prose surrounding Beatrice is of such intellectual depth, formal elegance, and emotional grandeur that many believe it hasn't been replicated sense.

It seems that Dante had a problem, that of finding the perfect woman for himself. And just solved it by creating his own. The implications of this for me personally are huge. To see such love and prose poured out for a woman you've known only in your head is fascinating. But also, perhaps the only way you'll ever find the perfect woman.

This particularly caught my interest because i've found myself in my younger years (i'm 18) doing the same, ignorantly, to many girls i've only talked to once or twice, and not even on subjects deep enough to know them personally. Yet you get that young "crush", you get the butterflies when they are around, and your overall infatuated with them.

Maybe the thing that interests me the most is I never caught myself constructing these personalities in my head for girls before I became aware of Dante's concept of Beatrice.

Now what are your thoughts, have you done this before?

Also, Luara was much the same thing but to a different man named Petrarch also known as "The Father of Humanism". If this is received positively enough I may collect my thoughts again to write about his relationship to her.

Lastly, be kind, this is my first real blog so i'm a blog writing noob.

Last edit: 2012-04-26 10:44:49

BITCH DON'T KILL MY VIBE

Kukaracha France. April 26 2012 10:57. Posts 1890

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I didn't know he was like this. It does seem that many brilliant scholars had, much like today, problems with flesh and the tangible world... the example of Pascal comes to mind.

On the other hand, creating a deep and marvellous personality for a girl we've only briefly met a couple of times seems fairly common. I recall doing this twice in high school, to finally meet a girl whos amazing qualities were hidden from the preconceived image I had of her.
It's easy, like manipulating a very simple puppet. Loneliness will make you put a stranger in pedestal because you use the enveloppe and fill the inside with whatever fits your liking.

Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").

ohsea.toc Australia. April 26 2012 11:22. Posts 338

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Welcome to the blogosphere proper!

You might say the same of most writers, that they write in imitation of a Platonic Form (or a perfect form of something), in your example a woman. This woman might be real or purely imagined, but in both instances they are simply throwing shadows, or words, on a wall.

I wrote a girl a poem once and she returned a note saying that I had "encapsulated" the subject well, as if i had given her a formal essay to grade. I wonder if Dante ever suffered a similar setback.

Clip, clop, Camelot.

r.Evo Germany. April 26 2012 13:10. Posts 5195

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That very scenario reminds me of how I understood it first. There is a famous quotation by the German author Berthold Brecht which describes what happens after you idealized another person:

"Was tun Sie",
wurde Herr K. gefragt,
"wenn Sie einen Menschen lieben?"
"Ich mache einen Entwurf von ihm",
sagte Herr K.,
"und sorge, daß er ihm ähnlich wird."
"Wer? Der Entwurf?"
"Nein", sagte Herr K., "der Mensch."

I didn't find a proper translation (in German "him" and "it" would both be represented by the article "der" and I can't find a correct workaround on the spot), but this should deliver the general idea:

"What do you do",
Mr K. was asked,
"if you love a person?",
"I create a blueprint",
said Mr K.,
"and I make sure that it looks the same."
"What? The blueprint?"
"No", said Mr K., "the person."

I usually find it similar to being in love with anything but not being in touch with it for a long time. That can be movies, books or people. Like, when you remember a book you read like 5-6 years ago and are like "OH THAT BOOK WAS SO AWESOME" and even suggest it to friends.. and then you read it again and are completely disappointed. Happened quite a lot for me.

One of the coolest blog posts I've seen in a while, thanks. =)

"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross

sam!zdat United States. April 26 2012 13:36. Posts 4170

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But do you think that's a good idea? It seems very narcissistic to me. I'll admit I didn't like Dante at all - but I was reading Vergil in Latin at the time and that was just not a comparison that was going to leave Dante looking favorable.

When you are crushing on some girl you think about all of these things, but when you get together it is the things you never anticipated that give the relationship life.

Eh, what do I know.

Last edit: 2012-04-26 13:37:01

noster non solus sol

sam!zdat United States. April 26 2012 13:38. Posts 4170

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Counterpoint: In Ovid, Pygmalion is pretty much the only story that ends happily.

noster non solus sol

Kuja United States. April 26 2012 14:39. Posts 1742

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On April 26 2012 13:36 sam!zdat wrote:
But do you think that's a good idea? It seems very narcissistic to me. I'll admit I didn't like Dante at all - but I was reading Vergil in Latin at the time and that was just not a comparison that was going to leave Dante looking favorable.

When you are crushing on some girl you think about all of these things, but when you get together it is the things you never anticipated that give the relationship life.

Eh, what do I know.

I would assume that the level of narcissism would only be known to the person who creates that image. It can range from being everything you hold good and that you are not (very un-narcissistic), to basically being you as a female (extremely narcissistic). Also, my personal opinion was that Virgil was very dull and stole a vast majority of his ideas and even some complete passages from various Greek poets. Although i took 4 years of honors Latin in high school, i could never read original Latin texts mostly because i don't have the time but also because its not "church" Latin and all that is really taught now-a-days in schools. Although I will admit Latin as a language in epics and poetry tends to be a far superior language to Italian, which might give Virgil the edge.

To respond to the second statement, I think that is true but id also like to think myself that the glorious lady of my mind concept still adds very much in how people view the other in serious (as in marriage possible) relationships.

EDIT: the part that addresses Virgil assumes you are talking about the Aeneid, which is the only work by him I have read, and is also assumed to be his masterpiece.

Last edit: 2012-04-26 14:46:47

BITCH DON'T KILL MY VIBE

surfinbird1 Germany. April 26 2012 18:05. Posts 999

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On April 26 2012 13:10 r.Evo wrote:
That very scenario reminds me of how I understood it first. There is a famous quotation by the German author Berthold Brecht which describes what happens after you idealized another person:

Show nested quote +