Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Chat
irc.quakenet.org #teamliquid
IRC Web ClientTeamSpeak 3 (51 users) | |
|
| Zergneedsfood United States. April 26 2012 13:02. Posts 5352 | Profile Blog # |
The recent BW vs SC2 discussions have really opened my eyes to how arrogant I was being. I think the fans for SC2 really made a lot of good points, and I seriously needed to sit back and reconsider a few of my previously held positions. For example, as much of an elitist as I am, there have been enjoyable games that I've watched in SC2, especially when I've watched with friends. SC2 has had periods of where watching it with other people and actively discussing the games really intensifies the experience.
As a result, I thought I'd pull out a personal story to help my fellow BW elitists understand a little bit more about SC2 and why it's not as bad as we make it out to be.
I will illustrate this with anime.
I got into anime around two years ago. Before then, my only experience was Pokemon, other random Saturday cartoons, and the shows they aired on Toonami before it ended. I really didn't know of any legendary anime, nor did I really know of what some of the best anime really were. I just watched what I wanted, and I slowly got more familiarized with which animes were good and which ones were god awful.
After I finished around two anime, I was looking for more, so I ended up going on TLADT (Teamliquid Anime Discussion Thread) to get more recommendations. At first, I got trolled by a few recommendations, but afterwards, everyone was really nice and helped me find some great shows. Everyone there is cool and have interesting personalities.
And through their wise guidance and recommendations, I have come to the following conclusion:
That over years and years over learning from their mistakes, most of the anime that's come out today are just so much better than older and archaic shows. It's as if they learned from the mistakes of the old shows and just made newer shows that just came out as better products. Not to mention that the art was better.
I think this might be better if we compare shows.
![[image loading]](http://animetree.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/cowboy-bebop.jpg)
Cowboy Bebop
Who could forget this legendary show? A mixture of jazz, space, and action. It had cool characters, awesome animation for its time, and some of the stories were pretty fun.
The problem? Cowboy Bebop is a bit outdated. While Cowboy Bebop might've been about a couple of bounty hunters fighting crimes, I think new anime studios really understand the core of what makes anime, anime. Bebop is past its time, and it's time for us to move on from these childish fantasies of being a space cowboy.
Let's look to reality, because let's be honest: a realistic anime sometimes really helps makes a really large impact on its audience. Cowboy Bebop was cool and all, but I think there are some shows that just pass that epicness. For example, if you just look for a little while, you'll get cool gems like this:
![[image loading]](http://static.animefushigi.com/af-red/category/kamisama-no-memochou.jpg)
Kamisama no Memochou
Man, did I love this show. It's an anime made in the summer of 2011, a refreshing anime about a group of NEETs who do the exact same things that the people in Cowboy Bebop did. They looked into mysteries, fought criminals, and had cool characters. Each of them had their own separate stories, and they culminated in a similar ending with gangs fighting one another and a girl getting intimately involved in everything.
The only difference? It was down to earth, and it really helped me get emotionally invested in everything.
I mean, total difference in quality right? Better animation, interface, and a new age atmosphere that just appeals to a new set of anime fans.
I mean, how could you not love the main character, Alice, a skinny NEET girl who apparently has a very deep and powerful connection to her teddy bear.
She's also moe:
![[image loading]](http://www.rabbitpoets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/UTW_Kamisama_no_Memochou_-_05v2_h264-720pFE3A0B12_20110808-22532852-640x360.jpg)
I think anime has also pioneered new ingenious shows that are filled with creativity and amazingness. In the past we had shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/10/18746.jpg)
Code Geass
Oh Code Geass, you were a pretty decent show. Of course, I hated Lelouche, and Suzaku, and almost everyone else in that entire cast with the exception of one or two people, but it was one of those really good brainless shows that you just turned off and watched for the fun of it.
The story was pretty compelling, and despite a lot of different opinions on the sequel, Code Geass is one of the most popular and well liked anime.
Unfortunately though, it pales in comparison to anime that still go by the same genre. Let's look at one:
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Guilty_crown.jpg/250px-Guilty_crown.jpg)
Man, this one of the most exciting shows of the last few seasons. The animation was better, the girls were hotter. Sure, maybe the plot still reeked of badness, but I think we can overlook that just because Guilty Crown was an appealing anime that actually cared about the viewers. When we wanted fan service, we got fan service.
When we wanted people to be more badass, they became more badass. It's as if we knew exactly what was going to happen, and the only thing that kept it from being cliche was that we just told ourselves that it wasn't.
I know there's a lot of haters of this show, but seriously, you guys just have terrible taste. If you guys watched anime intellectually like me, you'd clearly see that Guilty Crown is filled with political turmoil, economic struggles, and social divides that were never properly explored in Code Geass. There are so many themes that you can draw from the show, even if it's not that deep to start with.
And speaking of fan service, that's exactly what the anime industry needed. All this old stuff about plot, character development, and themes are pretty outdated. Nobody cares about those anymore. It's all about flashy looks and appealing to the fanbase. Because if you really think about it, if you want anime to expand, you're going to need to have a lot of sponsors, and what better way to have sponsors than to just throw in a lot of fan service?
Who cares about characters? Uh, no one. Obviously. That's why a lot of anime don't have that much depth. It's because we're fine with it.
To prove my point. Here are some of my favorite anime in the last few years:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/12/29137.jpg)
Hidan no Aria
![[image loading]](http://www.otakuworks.com/defaultimgs/4804.jpg)
Infinite Stratos
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Mayo_Chiki!_vol_1.jpg)
Mayo Chiki
Runner ups include: C^3, C, and Dantalian no Shoka.
And to nobody's surprise, my least favorite anime in the last few years have been anime that have tried to challenge the status quo, go against all of these new changes.
For example:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/9/15123.jpg)
Katanagatari was an anime made by White Fox, probably best known for production last year Steins;Gate.
But man was this show bad. It incorporated way too much characterization and dialogue, and didn't give me enough romance time between the two characters. I also didn't like how the main villains didn't have any flash moves, and how the action sequences were way too short.
A lot of it was also convoluted, as if I was supposed to understand half the things the anime was saying without getting it forcefed into my mouth. Anime need to have some level of simplicity, and as someone who watches intellectually, Katanagatari was wayyy too complicated.
In other words? What's my proposal?
I think as of now, anime studios are too focused on methodologies that are archaic and no longer work. People like Shinichiro Watanabe, or White Fox, or in general, any studio that's trying to get out of the current status quo of the anime industry needs to stop staying in the past. Those times are dead, and it's time to move on. I know we love the old anime as always, but I think Kamisama no Memochou, along with some other anime this season like:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/8/38155.jpg)
Really have a lot of potential to revolutionize the face of the anime industry.
Now if only studios like White Fox stop making shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/8/38241.jpg)
Jormungand
And instead made shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/13/35121.jpg)
Upotte
Or if Shinichiro Watanabe stopped making shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/4/36007.jpg)
Sakamichi no Apollon
And instead made shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/4/35783.jpg)
Natseiro Kiseki
Or even if a studio like ufotable stopped making dumb shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/8/29490.jpg)
Fate/Zero
And instead just made shows like this:
![[image loading]](http://download.minitokyo.net/Hyouka.573898.jpg)
Hyouka
Then everything would just be better.
In other words, it's time for people to switch over to the new era. The old ways of making anime are dead and no longer captivate the audience. People need to take on these business lessons, if they want to expand anime. It's the only way.
I know. I'm sad too. But it just has to happen.
Last edit: 2012-04-26 13:11:25
   |
| | ／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | wala x kjh x l10f <3 | poldu so modestuu uguu~ |
|
|
 Kupon3ss United States. April 26 2012 13:09. Posts 2770 | Profile # |
| keeper of lolis, indeed Last edit: 2012-04-26 13:10:01 |
| | This is what people who are too lazy to think of a signature do ~壮哉我大酒神~ | |
|
|
| Sentenal United States. April 26 2012 13:13. Posts 6344 | Profile Blog # |
| I agree with everything you said, Emnjay. If it hasn't been made within the past 4 years, then shit sucks won't watch. |
|
|
| Ack1027 United States. April 26 2012 13:18. Posts 7023 | Profile Blog # |
I hold the strong opposite of your opinion.
Once I read the first few paragraphs I had an idea what kind of anime you were gonna suggest that you liked or were ' new era improvements ' and well ya it was what I expected. Maybe its just confirmation bias, but the same shit happens to me when I ask any friends who still watch anime to recommend me something.
I'm in my early 20s my favorite animes are Cowboy Bebop, Death Note, Outlaw Star, Elfen Lied, Champloo, FMP Fumoffou, Escaflowne, Kenshin OVAS, Geass, Slam Dunk, Hakusho, Gungrave etc...
I think after Geass [ prolly the newest one I watched ] I just couldn't watch anime anymore. And I don't think it was a lifestyle or personal change. Everything was just bland or about dumb shit like ' moe ' or pre-teen girls in bands in highschool. Even animes like Love Hina in the past that were pretty much 80% fanservice did it in a more enjoyable way than newer stuff.
I really liked anime, I mean my tastes were a bit different when it came to things like Trigun, FLCL, or other anime that were really popular but I just didnt like.....but I miss being actually excited to be a complete slob for 2 days and straight watch a series.
It's just so difficult for me to take any anime that centers around little girls with other little girls as main characters seriously. I find it kinda sad that you don't think that Cowboy Bebop is classic and timeless. Honestly, I'm of the opinion that the last 2 episodes of Bebop have rarely been surpassed in quality in all anime history. I think its a little forward to label what old anime did as ' mistakes ' and that new anime is making the ' right ' adjustments.
Anyways my opinion. Didn't mean to offend as thats what usually happens when people discuss their unique favorites.
|
| | [ TL's #1 Boxer fan since '04 ] |
|
|
 PassionFruit April 26 2012 13:19. Posts 177 | Profile Blog # |
| I believe you missed the sarcasm. |
|
|
| ghosthunter United States. April 26 2012 13:22. Posts 397 | Profile Blog # |
There are plenty of classic animes that are timeless in message and scope. Cowboy Bebop whom you list is one of them.
I was generally fine with what you said, but then you called Fate Zero dumb, and my jaw dropped.
There are different niches of anime akin to different niches of show. You can't capture the entire audience with any one. If you really want to talk about how the Anime industry needs to change, you'll need to explain:
Bleach
Detective Conan
Naruto
One Piece
And why their formulaic existences have made them THE most dominant animes of the decade contrary to the new wave.
In retrospective, it seems like you're arguing the simplification of Anime. While those have their niche (which I also enjoy!), I much prefer the more mature and convoluted animes to endless shoujo filler. |
|
|
| KazeHydra United States. April 26 2012 13:22. Posts 1899 | Profile Blog # |
| I disagree. For example, K-ON remains one of the most impressive pieces of anime of all time. It's all about the struggling efforts of four out of place girls trying to find their way through the world. They're all socially awkward but they find friendship and solace through the power of music. Considering how popular it remains to this day despite its age and long history, I believe it is accurate to call it the Brood War of anime. |
| | "Because I know this promise that won’t disappear will turn even a cause of tears into strength. You taught me that if I can believe, there is nothing that cannot come true." - Nana Mizuki (Yakusoku) |
|
|
| Nazza Australia. April 26 2012 13:23. Posts 1519 | Profile Blog # |
It's ironic coz you guys bash Chihayafuru
+ Show Spoiler +karuta is dead. its time to move on u noobs Last edit: 2012-04-26 13:23:32 |
| | No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND | |
|
|
| Ack1027 United States. April 26 2012 13:24. Posts 7023 | Profile Blog # |
On April 26 2012 13:19 PassionFruit wrote:
I believe you missed the sarcasm.
Sarcasm breeds sarcasm breeds sarcasm breeds sarcasm.
Waste more space on forums! |
| | [ TL's #1 Boxer fan since '04 ] |
|
|
| Sentenal United States. April 26 2012 13:24. Posts 6344 | Profile Blog # |
On April 26 2012 13:18 Ack1027 wrote:
I hold the strong opposite of your opinion.
Once I read the first few paragraphs I had an idea what kind of anime you were gonna suggest that you liked or were ' new era improvements ' and well ya it was what I expected. Maybe its just confirmation bias, but the same shit happens to me when I ask any friends who still watch anime to recommend me something.
I'm in my early 20s my favorite animes are Cowboy Bebop, Death Note, Outlaw Star, Elfen Lied, Champloo, FMP Fumoffou, Escaflowne, Kenshin OVAS, Geass, Slam Dunk, Hakusho, Gungrave etc...
I think after Geass [ prolly the newest one I watched ] I just couldn't watch anime anymore. And I don't think it was a lifestyle or personal change. Everything was just bland or about dumb shit like ' moe ' or pre-teen girls in bands in highschool. Even animes like Love Hina in the past that were pretty much 80% fanservice did it in a more enjoyable way than newer stuff.
I really liked anime, I mean my tastes were a bit different when it came to things like Trigun, FLCL, or other anime that were really popular but I just didnt like.....but I miss being actually excited to be a complete slob for 2 days and straight watch a series.
It's just so difficult for me to take any anime that centers around little girls with other little girls as main characters seriously. I find it kinda sad that you don't think that Cowboy Bebop is classic and timeless. Honestly, I'm of the opinion that the last 2 episodes of Bebop have rarely been surpassed in quality in all anime history. I think its a little forward to label what old anime did as ' mistakes ' and that new anime is making the ' right ' adjustments.
Anyways my opinion. Didn't mean to offend as thats what usually happens when people discuss their unique favorites.
Whats wrong with grown men watching anime about little pre-teen girls running around molesting each other? I was assured by TLADT members such as Zergneedsfood and Ferrose that such things make for quality anime.
On April 26 2012 13:22 ghosthunter wrote:
There are plenty of classic animes that are timeless in message and scope. Cowboy Bebop whom you list is one of them.
I was generally fine with what you said, but then you called Fate Zero dumb, and my jaw dropped.
There are different niches of anime akin to different niches of show. You can't capture the entire audience with any one. If you really want to talk about how the Anime industry needs to change, you'll need to explain:
Bleach
Detective Conan
Naruto
One Piece
And why their formulaic existences have made them THE most dominant animes of the decade contrary to the new wave.
In retrospective, it seems like you're arguing the simplification of Anime. While those have their niche (which I also enjoy!), I much prefer the more mature and convoluted animes to endless shoujo filler.
Did you just... group One Piece... with Bleach and Naruto?Last edit: 2012-04-26 13:26:10 |
|
|
| Elem Sweden. April 26 2012 13:24. Posts 3976 | Profile # |
ZNF too moe. Tries to sarcasm on adorable loli w/ a bear but just can't do it cos he knows he's wrong. 
Also Bebop sucked. Get @ me bro.
|
| | [16:50:13] <walawork> ferrose is ok with 3d? [16:50:30] <Callnyoro> ferrose doesnt mind as long as the chest is 2d |
|
|
| cmen15 United States. April 26 2012 13:27. Posts 1460 | Profile Blog # |
| Good read but I have to admit im a fan of the oldies ha : ) |
| | Greed leads to just about all losses. |
|
|
| Nagisama Canada. April 26 2012 13:27. Posts 1867 | Profile Blog # |
| guilty crown anime of the year in every category! |
| | "Everyone who has accomplished more than you has no life; Everyone who has accomplished less than you is a noob." | |
|
|
| PassionFruit April 26 2012 13:31. Posts 177 | Profile Blog # |
| nvm Last edit: 2012-04-26 13:34:17 |
|
|
| Veles United States. April 26 2012 13:36. Posts 44 | Profile # |
Edit: I got trolled ;_;Last edit: 2012-04-26 15:11:47 |
|
|
| Durak Canada. April 26 2012 14:23. Posts 3221 | Profile Blog # |
I don't even watch Anime and I knew this was a troll from:
I know there's a lot of haters of this show, but seriously, you guys just have terrible taste. If you guys watched anime intellectually like me, you'd clearly see that...
|
|
|
| Turbovolver Australia. April 26 2012 14:25. Posts 1637 | Profile Blog # |
Anime is not a genre suited to action. If you don't watch it for moe, you're basically admitting you just like anime because it's so magical and foreign and Japanese.
The thing which is unique to anime IS the moe culture, and if you aren't there for that, then you should reconsider why you actually like anime. |
| |
|
| rabidch Singapore. April 26 2012 14:27. Posts 8061 | Profile # |
(znf wishes he was as moe as the rest of tladt)
+ Show Spoiler +oh who am i kidding znf is so moe ;_; Last edit: 2012-04-26 14:29:41 |
| |
|
| n.DieJokes United States. April 26 2012 14:34. Posts 3264 | Profile Blog # |
| The first two animes I watched were death note and geass. Everything else I tried felt like junk in comparison, I feel the same way about rts |
| | ＭｙＬｏｖｅ + Ｙｏｕｒ Ｌｏｖｅ= Ｓｕｐａ Ｌｏｖｅ |
|
|
| Abstinence United States. April 26 2012 14:43. Posts 280 | Profile Blog # |
| So uh... either OP really needs to work on making his satire more clear... or... he's actually serious and I'm quite sad that he is. |
|
|
| 1 2 3 Next All | |
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
