Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Web ChatTeamSpeak 3 (55 users)
Active: 7619 users | |
|
| UpATree Canada. May 05 2012 11:09. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
I really have just been laddering and haven't learned much, just grinding my way up the ladder.
TvP
I used to QQ a lot about protoss, but lately I've adopted the mindset that good play can always mitigate imbalance. That's just me though, I'd like to know more about what the community thinks about the state of TvP. So I have a few questions:
Poll: Is bio really the only way to (viably) play?No? (16) 64% Yes? (9) 36% 25 total votes Your vote: Is bio really the only way to (viably) play? (Vote): Yes?
(Vote): No?
Poll: Is drop play truly necessary? Yes? (13) 59% No? (9) 41% 22 total votes Your vote: Is drop play truly necessary? (Vote): Yes?
(Vote): No?
Poll: Can one successfully turtle with bio play?No? (16) 73% Yes? (6) 27% 22 total votes Your vote: Can one successfully turtle with bio play? (Vote): Yes?
(Vote): No?
I really wanna know what Terrans or Protoss, think of these points.
What I think
For anyone that actually cares about my opinion, I thought I'd give it. I've watched sc2 since release, and I've seen so many styles be successful. I always was under the impression, that with strong mechanics and a solid thought process a player could make almost any strategy good. Recently a post by blizzard changed my mind, I won't cite it because I'm sure everyones read it. They basically state that Terran has an advantage in the midgame, and Protoss an advantage in the late game if gone unhindered.
This actually surprised the crap out of me, because I was under the impression that games weren't supposed to be played out in a linear fashion. You may ask, "I don't see how blizzard's statement says anything about linearity". Well that takes a little theory crafting, and I'll do my best.
If the Terran has a midgame advantage, and are prone to losing if they don't capitalize on their advantage. Well how must they capitalize? Lets think of ways: A push up the ramp, usually fails due to forcefields. A turtle 2-base push? Well protoss can chrono upgrades, and then do their own 2 base push, stop yours then enter the midgame. Many other strategies are usually countered just by solid macro and a good defense by protoss, prior to entering the late game.
IMBA! No, not really. Drops are the most obvious way to get around this, and that's why almost every Terran build revolves around fast medvacs. Almost anyone who plays this matchup in a higher level, knows that fast medvac builds are "standard play". If blizzard themselves say that this is true, do Terran players really have a choice? If they try any other tactic that doesn't involve a midgame capitalization, can they not win? Isn't this poor game design? Shouldn't a player be able to viably execute a straight up fight, and at least trade evenly?
Note: In what I think, I'm excluding 3 things. Mech play, because I don't consider that a viable midgame tacitic. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen and heard people just generally discredit it. I exclude cheese, because these are often coin flips that are good mostly when not scouted, they also don't capitalize on the early game. I'm also excluding the recent 3 tank, bio timing. I don't know how long it's been used, but I haven't seen much of it (Maybe mostly Korean Ladder?). Until I've seen more, I don't think I can judge how viable it is for capitalizing in the midgame.
Anyway, I was just posting because it's the "hot topic", and as a Terran player I actually have an opinion.
- UpATree
Edit, I believe I messed up the poll, lol. Gotta fix that.
Edit, Fixed.Last edit: 2012-05-05 11:30:48
  |
| | You learn only by losing to players better than yourself. |
|
|
| Jumbled May 05 2012 11:19. Posts 1463 | Profile # |
On May 05 2012 11:09 UpATree wrote:
Can one successfully turtle with bio play, or must one be aggressive?
This is not a yes/no question.
My feeling is that siege mode definitely becomes useless once charge is researched, but there's probably still a place for thors, at least, and sky terran can be downright scary at times. So the idea of tanklines in lategame TvP is probably a non-starter, but I don't think Terran needs to stick to just barracks plus medivacs either. |
|
|
| UpATree Canada. May 05 2012 11:23. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
On May 05 2012 11:19 Jumbled wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:09 UpATree wrote:
Can one successfully turtle with bio play, or must one be aggressive?
This is not a yes/no question. My feeling is that siege mode definitely becomes useless once charge is researched, but there's probably still a place for thors, at least, and sky terran can be downright scary at times. So the idea of tanklines in lategame TvP is probably a non-starter, but I don't think Terran needs to stick to just barracks plus medivacs either.
I realized that, but it was too late! The question for anyone who care is: Can you turtle. I thought it was implied that if you aren't turtling your being aggressive on the map.
|
| | You learn only by losing to players better than yourself. |
|
|
| Jumbled May 05 2012 11:26. Posts 1463 | Profile # |
On May 05 2012 11:23 UpATree wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:19 Jumbled wrote:
On May 05 2012 11:09 UpATree wrote:
Can one successfully turtle with bio play, or must one be aggressive?
This is not a yes/no question. My feeling is that siege mode definitely becomes useless once charge is researched, but there's probably still a place for thors, at least, and sky terran can be downright scary at times. So the idea of tanklines in lategame TvP is probably a non-starter, but I don't think Terran needs to stick to just barracks plus medivacs either.
I realized that, but it was too late! The question for anyone who care is: Can you turtle. I thought it was implied that if you aren't turtling your being aggressive on the map.
You can just create a new poll and edit it into your post. |
|
|
 Pokebunny United States. May 05 2012 11:28. Posts 9624 | Profile Blog # |
| You can turtle up to a fast 3rd, but then you need to start using your economic advantage to kick ass. |
| "Spirit Walk in, Spirit Vessel out." - crzytimes | Teamliquid Staff Writer
Quantic.Pokebunny | Pokebunny.703 | quanticgaming.com | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | |
|
|
| UpATree Canada. May 05 2012 11:31. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
On May 05 2012 11:26 Jumbled wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:23 UpATree wrote:
On May 05 2012 11:19 Jumbled wrote:
On May 05 2012 11:09 UpATree wrote:
Can one successfully turtle with bio play, or must one be aggressive?
This is not a yes/no question. My feeling is that siege mode definitely becomes useless once charge is researched, but there's probably still a place for thors, at least, and sky terran can be downright scary at times. So the idea of tanklines in lategame TvP is probably a non-starter, but I don't think Terran needs to stick to just barracks plus medivacs either.
I realized that, but it was too late! The question for anyone who care is: Can you turtle. I thought it was implied that if you aren't turtling your being aggressive on the map.
You can just create a new poll and edit it into your post.
Alright, Alright! I fixed it  |
| | You learn only by losing to players better than yourself. |
|
|
| UpATree Canada. May 05 2012 11:32. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
On May 05 2012 11:28 Pokebunny wrote:
You can turtle up to a fast 3rd, but then you need to start using your economic advantage to kick ass.
I hate to sound like an over eager fan, but you're the first player I recognize to comment on something I've done. I think that's pretty damn awesome. |
| | You learn only by losing to players better than yourself. |
|
|
| LuckyFool United States. May 05 2012 11:34. Posts 8329 | Profile Blog # |
Terran has to do stuff to get ahead in TvP or you will just die.
I've been doing super greedy stuff like super fast double ebay upgrades or fast 3rd cc, depending on the map/positions you can get away with a ninja 3rd too which is really amazing.
also for some crazy mech play Illusion recently used it at IPL4, he beat oz with mech and kiwikaki, the replays are in the IPL replay pack. pretty interesting builds. in general everyone is going bio though. mech seems easy to counter if P plays properly, I feel like some of the mech wins rely simply on lack of experience playing against it by most P's.Last edit: 2012-05-05 11:37:11 |
| |
|
| Coramoor Canada. May 05 2012 11:39. Posts 444 | Profile Blog # |
| There is a player named hangene who has a very interesting mech heavy approach, if you can find some of his replays, i'd recommend checking it out |
|
|
| UpATree Canada. May 05 2012 11:43. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
On May 05 2012 11:39 Coramoor wrote:
There is a player named hangene who has a very interesting mech heavy approach, if you can find some of his replays, i'd recommend checking it out
I'll look into that, thanks! |
| | You learn only by losing to players better than yourself. |
|
|
| Cycle United States. May 05 2012 12:24. Posts 300 | Profile Blog # | |
| | | chKCycle.551 | NA | Master League Random | Checkmate Gaming | |
|
|
| Pokebunny United States. May 05 2012 20:32. Posts 9624 | Profile Blog # |
On May 05 2012 11:32 UpATree wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 11:28 Pokebunny wrote:
You can turtle up to a fast 3rd, but then you need to start using your economic advantage to kick ass.
I hate to sound like an over eager fan, but you're the first player I recognize to comment on something I've done. I think that's pretty damn awesome.
Hehe you're welcome!  |
| "Spirit Walk in, Spirit Vessel out." - crzytimes | Teamliquid Staff Writer
Quantic.Pokebunny | Pokebunny.703 | quanticgaming.com | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | |
|
|
 Br3ezy United States. May 05 2012 23:43. Posts 720 | Profile Blog # |
| there is not enough context in any of the situations. Therefore an argument can be made for either of the answers you have there |
| | Check out my guide to mechanics http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319876 |
|
|
| Kraznaya China. May 06 2012 00:26. Posts 1588 | Profile Blog # |
The best way to play TvP is to proxy 2 rax, pull half your scvs, and bunker rush. Anything else will get you killed.
Proof: GSL Ro8 |
| |
|
| Masq Canada. May 06 2012 01:05. Posts 1525 | Profile Blog # |
I used to do a lot of biomech 2-3 base timings with a 2fact siege tank opener, and honestly you'll win a lot because people are unexperienced with siege tank play. Once people are accustomed to the build, you will die horribly.
Aside from doing some gimmick builds and stim rushing up ramps or going pure marine/marine+ghost timing before protoss has AoE, dropplay is pretty much a requirement.
Mech probably has a future, just not in WoL. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
WCS
