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| Tobberoth Sweden. May 21 2012 23:19. Posts 4523 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do.
Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music.
If that was a godly story, then D3 has a pretty fantastic story as well. I mean seriously, what were you when you played D2, 13? It's not that D2 wasn't cool or anything, but how can the basic concept of the dark traveler seriously make people think D2 had an amazing story where D3 doesn't? That's like if in 10 years, Diablo 4 is released and people go "D4 has such a shitty story, remember Tyrael falling from the sky in D3? That was GODLY story". |
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| Xiron Germany. May 21 2012 23:30. Posts 1153 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 19:29 Faraday wrote:
I agree with almost everything you said, except maybe: "The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story?" I actually like the stories Blizzard comes up with, especially how Diablo transfered into the hero that had slain him, turning into the wanderer in Diablo 2 and the whole story, and I think that many people enjoy the storytelling.
"the difficulty goes from extremely easy to "oh shit Duriel." wow that is so true haha
Diablo has tits=epic 5*
I generally like blizzard's stories, but I can't get around admitting that D3's story is just.... one-dimensional. Which is not necessarily a bad thing as it's not in the focus of the game. |
| | "The way of life can be free and beautiful. But we have lost the way. " - Charlie Chaplin |
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| Psychobabas United Kingdom. May 21 2012 23:32. Posts 1961 | Profile Blog # |
(I've been playing Diablo 1+ Hellfire and Diablo 2 from their release to this day, no joke, i've got save files about 7 years old lol.)
What I like about Diablo 3:
Awesome death animations.
Nice graphics.
Interactivity.
Music is excellent
Cutscenes are what is expected.
What I don't like:
Random elite mobs are harder than Act bosses. This makes no sense.
Skill system if very "iffy". Even now, 1 week after release, people have already excluded skills that are just bad (or to put it another way, you would have a far easier time using another skill). Essentially, there are "trash skills" that pretty much all point towards a common build. The vast majority of Barbarians using "cleave" as primary skill for example.
So from the process of elimination you end up with a bread-and-butter build.
Some really questionable characters. They just dont fit the Diablo universe.Last edit: 2012-05-21 23:35:40 |
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| Pazuzu United States. May 21 2012 23:42. Posts 244 | Profile # |
| OP was priceless. I havent played diablo 2 in a while and this just made me laugh so much |
| | "It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it" |
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| mbr2321 United States. May 21 2012 23:49. Posts 908 | Profile Blog # |
| Back to the Gheed I like to read-- mercilessly reminding idiots how stupid they really are. Also it's the Gheed I agree with again hahaha! |
| | ~~Treating eSports as a social science since 2011~~ Credo: "The system is never wrong"-- Day9 Daily #400 Part 3 | |
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| Alpino Brazil. May 21 2012 23:54. Posts 2584 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 23:16 sc4k wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 19:53 brachester wrote:
"who the fuck play diablo 3 for the story?". I don't mind it that much but it doesn't change the fact that d3's story is shit and not everyone plays the game the way you do.
Yeah this is the biggest problem I have with Gheed's arguments. It's probably the dumbest and most un-diablo-fannish argument as well. WTF are you talking about Gheed, Diablo II's story, specifically its cutscenes, were some of the most EPIC and radically awesome experiences in my childhood. All the stuff involving the dark traveller, the guy who goes insane following him and Tyrael finding him in the mental asylum, Tal Rasha being imprisoned etc. Are you KIDDING me??? That stuff was pure godly story. Pretty much no game in history has had a BETTER story than Diablo 2. The argument that people didn't play Diablo because of the story is completely misplaced. Sure they may not have been enticed into playing for the first time because of the story, but surely MANY MANY stayed because of a) the story b) the atmosphere/ visuals c) the music.
You mean Baal in the Asylum? |
| | no gods/ no masters/ no borders/ no wars |
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| Velinath United States. May 22 2012 00:02. Posts 629 | Profile Blog # |
| As alwyas, this was an excellent read. In addition, I agree. |
| | Mid-gold, trying to hit Plat... :( |
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 Sinensis United States. May 22 2012 00:16. Posts 2503 | Profile Blog # |
| Diablo has tits? Wow, I might actually buy D3... |
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 scintilliaSD United States. May 22 2012 00:18. Posts 2187 | Profile Blog # |
| There should be a prerequisite to this thread. Go to dictionary.com and look up the word "polemical." Seriously. |
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| IMHope Korea (South). May 22 2012 00:47. Posts 1184 | Profile # |
| Great blog. I agree with a lot of your points and you expressed yourself very well. |
| | Jessica Jung, Kim Taeyeon, Kwon Yuri <333 |
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| MisterD Germany. May 22 2012 00:56. Posts 1338 | Profile Blog # |
>50 which doc here, stacking buffs to more than double your DPS when fully buffed (in addition to a permanent +20% dmg passive) is fun! also, frogs falling from the sky and SPIDERS EVERYWHERE!
oh but you probably won't ever see me because i either play with my buds or solo  Last edit: 2012-05-22 01:02:41 |
| | Gold isn't everything in life... you need wood, too! |
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| Chef May 22 2012 01:20. Posts 9708 | Profile Blog # |
I don't understand this OP. You call it polemical, but you've simplified the arguments you're trying to oppose and then made really weak arguments yourself, which basically amount to 'what you want in a video game is stupid.' I'll give one thorough example because I'm not going to argue every point in your OP.
The story was dumb!
No, you're dumb. Who the fuck plays Diablo for the story? People play Diablo because they have an addictive personality type but are too poor to spend real money gambling, not because they care about the fictitious interplay between Heaven and Hell. Go read the Bible or the Apocrypha or something if you're interested in that shit. Diablo exists to give people who want to grind but don't want to pay a monthly fee something to do.
The story itself is fine, anyway. It's only there to give you an excuse to run around and fight evil and it does just that. Nobody reads the shit after the first run through, anyway, and most people probably don't even do that.
You agree that the story is stupid when saying who plays Diablo for the story. Why is it not a legitimate complaint that the story isn't good. You make reference (presumably) to Diablo II which also didn't have a very good story as a reason that it's not important to the franchise. But if we're arguing what is true to the franchise, that's unfair because Diablo I's greatest appeal was its story. In its time there were other games that had story, but none as fully voice acted as Diablo. I don't want to argue about whether or not it has aged well, but it certainly achieved a lot of things that are important to the Diablo gaming experience, which is to evelope you in its atmosphere. Music, art direction, and story play a role in that. Without that playing an RPG feels meaningless. Diablo II's success was very much in part because people were carrying through their experience Diablo I into it, and even tho it wasn't done as well it was sorta ok. The other appeals of D2 which were the item system and spell system, but way more importantly the multiplayer system which allowed you to create your own fun with 7 strangers on the internet very easily and very quickly, were vastly important and what gave the game longevity, but story is still important. It gave everything a Paradise Lost kind of feel.
It also isn't a schmup from the 80s. 'Kill the overlord queen alien thing' is ok when its just a random developer trying to give the player some context, but D3 is a triple A title with a lot of money, and a team of people got paid to write its story. When no one has the presence of mind or willingness to tell them they're doing a bad job, or they don't want to pay more for a better story, yeah it's a legitimate criticism. If they had no story at all and were clearly not trying to have one, then sure it's a moot point to say Tyrian and Super Mario Bros. didn't have much of a plot.
So what I'm saying is that you've been SCV rushing too many bronze players and gained a superiority complex, when actually your opinions are just as worthless as anyone else's. Of course their are good points to Diablo 3 which make up for the story, and a balanced review will show that, but it's dumb to say that story isn't important to game experience in 2012. Blizzard should have grown in this department in addition to all the other things they've improved, but instead they've withered.Last edit: 2012-05-22 01:57:34 |
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| OGzan United States. May 22 2012 01:47. Posts 245 | Profile # |
| Would have been way better if the original developers created D3. |
| | (Byzantium) :: http://www.twitch.tv/byzantiumsc :: Support MN SC2 Players!! |
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| Dfgj Singapore. May 22 2012 02:14. Posts 5562 | Profile # |
| The argument of 'who plays Diablo for the story' would make sense if they weren't clearly trying to have a story in the game. But they are, and it's bad, and bad work should get criticized. |
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| NexUmbra Scotland. May 22 2012 02:16. Posts 2877 | Profile Blog # |
One of my friends who I play dota said that he doesn't like D3 because you only have 6 skills... I honestly think people want to hate the game XD
One of his favourite heroes is axe. And if you don't count his passive(in the same way that my friend didn't count the three passives) then he only has 3 skills. I was dumbfounded at this T.T |
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| hypercube Hungary. May 22 2012 02:22. Posts 1924 | Profile # |
So you're saying it's bland and unoriginal but people shouldn't complain because that's exactly what they should have expected. Not sure if that's an endorsement or not.
edit:
+ Show Spoiler +Since there's so much negativity on TL I feel like I need to add this. As much as I disagree with your arguments (and I usually do) I still enjoy reading your blogs. You obviously have a talent for writing. Last edit: 2012-05-22 02:25:30 |
| | "[...] you wanna have a future where you're expecting things to be better, not one where you're expecting things to be worse." |
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| AKomrade United States. May 22 2012 02:27. Posts 554 | Profile Blog # |
That quote at the end from the blue made my life. After WoL and Cataclysm, I had sort of given up on Blizzard making truly HARD games again. In fact, Diablo 3 in general gave me hope for all of the next games Blizzard is making. Besides the obvious problems that you mentioned, D3 is perfect. Even the BNet 2.0 integration is amazing.
Also, I really liked the storyline. I've logged hundreds of hours on both D1 and D2 and loved the lore. I wish it had been a little less "conclusive" at the end, but thats namely because I REALLY want an xpack. Also they leave out why its important that Tyrael became the aspect of Wisdom, but w/e.
Regardless, 5/5.Last edit: 2012-05-22 02:27:19 |
| | ALL HAIL THE KING IN THE NORTH! HAIL! HAIL! |
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| Heh_ Singapore. May 22 2012 03:17. Posts 2245 | Profile Blog # |
| 5/5. I agree with most of the stuff you said. People will find the smallest thing to complain about. There’s no game which is “perfect” in every sense. Even if it's perfect to one person, another person will find a flaw in it. People complained about the SC2 storyline when all they did was play multiplayer. Unless there’s something really broken (server shutdown), then just accept the small flaws. |
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| Crazyseal United Kingdom. May 22 2012 03:32. Posts 219 | Profile # |
On May 21 2012 22:21 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
1) Diablo has never been open world. If you expect open world from Diablo 3 then you're a retard. This is like complaining that SC2 is terrible because it's not like Mario, or something equally redundant. 2) PvP is pretty pointless until there are enough level 60 characters to go at it... and until people have geared up enough to make it meaningful. Also, as Blizzard have said that they don't intend to balance the game for PvP, people trying to figure out the most imbalanced combinations is the most fun you can expect PvP to get. Diablo isn't really about PvP, PvP is merely an entertaining distraction. 3) It's 4 people. Admittedly, 5 would be better as it would allow one of each class to be in a party. 8 is too many IMO as you never needed 8 people in D2 - you'd end up with people who stood around doing nothing for large parts of the game. 4) So? It's about being able to kill shit, what you're killing shit for is actually irrelevant in a game like this. 5) If you think that then try solo'ing through to Hell or Inferno. You need to use your skills properly. As for team play, teamwork is way more important in D3 than in D2 because the enemy skill increase ("Hell's minions grow stronger") actually makes things harder. In D2, most character builds could solo Hell in an 8 person game, this doesn't seem as likely in D3 due to the myriad of elite mob combinations that will fuck up certain types of build (try a build that relies strongly on kiting against a Frozen Waller or an Arcane Jailer in Hell+ and see how far that gets you, for example).
1) Im not saying that Diablo as a game should change its roots, im saying that itself is the reason to why the game is bad, coupled with the lack of party members deepens this problem.
2) Yeah, so half of what D2 was about is not even relevant anymore. Cool. Whats the point of the game then?
3).... what?
4)... once again, your dumbing down your own argument. It is 100% relevant. It is what makes up the fabric of the game.
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| Heh_ Singapore. May 22 2012 03:41. Posts 2245 | Profile Blog # |
On May 22 2012 03:32 Crazyseal wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 22:21 Sated wrote:
On May 21 2012 20:18 Crazyseal wrote:
TBH, i find alot of this review to be incorrect in my opinion. The game is simply just boring. Its an RPG, without any real feel of being an RPG. The game is simply a worse version of WoW, and hold your horses, let me explain why:
1) No open world - This is, imo, a real flaw to the game and eliminates so much of the randomness in RPG's which often make them great, such as ganking or doing random crazy things to people.
2) No factions - Without PvP being implemented from release and the lack of opposition the game is pretty much a vs AI grind fest, which granted some people enjoy, but it is mind numbingly repetitive, without any real strategy. PvP being delayed means that the game is not competitive at all.
3) Small Games - A max of 5 people per game is quite poor for Diablo. Even D2 would allow 8 people max if I recall correctly which allowed a lot more interaction.
4) Exactly the same Quests - Just like in D2, going from one difficulty or character, to another is a mirror image of the game. Even in WoW, which is arguably similar in these instances, there is much more choice in the areas you want to quest , the range of quests and the whole feel of the levelling system.
5) Lack of Skill involved - With the ability to be able to swap and switch everything on your character and its skills, it really destroys the ability for actual skill based game play and the need to level another of the same class, which is what made D2 a brilliant game in terms of continuity.
Just my 2 cents.
1) Diablo has never been open world. If you expect open world from Diablo 3 then you're a retard. This is like complaining that SC2 is terrible because it's not like Mario, or something equally redundant. 2) PvP is pretty pointless until there are enough level 60 characters to go at it... and until people have geared up enough to make it meaningful. Also, as Blizzard have said that they don't intend to balance the game for PvP, people trying to figure out the most imbalanced combinations is the most fun you can expect PvP to get. Diablo isn't really about PvP, PvP is merely an entertaining distraction. 3) It's 4 people. Admittedly, 5 would be better as it would allow one of each class to be in a party. 8 is too many IMO as you never needed 8 people in D2 - you'd end up with people who stood around doing nothing for large parts of the game. 4) So? It's about being able to kill shit, what you're killing shit for is actually irrelevant in a game like this. 5) If you think that then try solo'ing through to Hell or Inferno. You need to use your skills properly. As for team play, teamwork is way more important in D3 than in D2 because the enemy skill increase ("Hell's minions grow stronger") actually makes things harder. In D2, most character builds could solo Hell in an 8 person game, this doesn't seem as likely in D3 due to the myriad of elite mob combinations that will fuck up certain types of build (try a build that relies strongly on kiting against a Frozen Waller or an Arcane Jailer in Hell+ and see how far that gets you, for example).
1) Im not saying that Diablo as a game should change its roots, im saying that itself is the reason to why the game is bad, coupled with the lack of party members deepens this problem. 2) Yeah, so half of what D2 was about is not even relevant anymore. Cool. Whats the point of the game then? 3).... what? 4)... once again, your dumbing down your own argument. It is 100% relevant. It is what makes up the fabric of the game.
If you don't like the game, don't play it. No one's forcing you to play it. If you wanted A, B and C but got A, B and D, either suck it up or find a game that fulfills your criteria. If you got D, E and F instead, it's your fault for buying a game without any prior research. |
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