Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Web ChatTeamSpeak 3 (69 users)
Active: 5945 users | |
|
| TaKeTV Germany. June 16 2012 01:55. Posts 234 | Profile Blog # |
The e-sports manifesto – Our vision of e-sports beyond the 'industry'
Part 2: Perils of the from-top-to-bottom approach
Taking the time to write such a commentary in times of the European Football [sic!] Championship is a bit of a pain. On the other hand it brings me to the main point of this part through a series of transitions, which could only be classified as 'genius' (or insane): The European championship is hosted by the UEFA, which is a subsidiary of the FIFA, which hosts the World championship every 4 years, which will be held in Qatar in 2022, which in turn makes the heads of football [sic!] fans around the world ubiquitously shake with almost relativistic speed.
If Maradona was a dynamo (and if he was dead), he would spin so fast in his grave that we could probably solve all the worlds energy problems within a whim.
Okay okay, enough of those -retarded- bad jokes. (I love Maradona and would weep on the day he dies, just by the way.)
The WC 2022 in Quatar should just serve as an example of a problem, that also becomes more and more apparent in the e-sports world: Big names make big decisions, sometimes for a whole nation, sometimes just for a small community. And those decisions do not necessarily please the majority of those, for which they were made in the first place. While this can't always be denoted as a negative thing, like in politics for example, this behaviour gets very curious and dubious in a scene, which solely exist for the purpose to entertain its constituents. Why wouldn't you please the majority of the crowd?
Fair enough, it is very hard to say what the majority of the community really wants. There is no reliable way to quantize something like an opinion when there are no represantative numbers. You could always argue, that some decisions just reflect the convictions of their makers with only good intentions behind them.
But I am convinced, that this is not always applicable. At least not anymore, not in our community. The e-sports scene is undergoing a drastic change right now. We have to face some serious questions about what we want e-sports to become. And as it is right now, this future might be far away from the ideal picture, that the 'majority' might have in their minds.
E-sports might be in the process of a revolution. But it is a revolution from the top.
By the way, if you are not sure what I mean by "e-sports", check out our last entry!
„But Sire, we do not approve of this.“ „Shut up, we are having an e-sports revolution right now!“
I don't want to recapitulate the history of e-sports as a whole. But I think there is no universal doubt about the claim, that e-sports and the e-sports community started as nothing else than a group that shared a common interest. No one from the outside pushed it or inflated it. When e-sports was just a delicate little blossom, it was not taken seriously by a large portion of considerable sponsors or investors. When the first players met at their friend's house and had a LAN party, no one could call Red Bull and ask for a sponsorship. It was just too small.
But it grew. It grew and grew because more and more people wanted to be part of this community. Because people had fun playing video games. That was all it took.
Skip forward. Where are we now? Quo vadis, e-sports?
Things are not always that simple
The influx of more and more sponsors made e-sports into a relevant business. The new CBS deal could mean that e-sports makes the jump into mainstream television. What a great step. What a great moment for e-sports. Who would have even hoped for that 10 years ago?
But there is something that tarnishes the bliss of that moment.
First, we should construct the 'ideal' picture of e-sports. I am very well aware of the fact, that this is a very delicate topic. Ask 100 people and you would get 100 different opinions. But I am confident, that there is something that everyone can agree on.
Let's imagine this: A flourishing scene in which the community is the ruler. A scene where the community is the ultimate judge of the content. Imagine if every tournament host, everyone who organizes events, streams and anything related to that would do their job under the premise to please the community as much as possible. Imagine if that was the main goal of the whole thing.
A program every fan could enjoy. Big tournaments with great players and great casters. An international scene with no real boundaries. A proactive community with heart and passion.
I don't want to describe details. What I can construct is blurry, but that is okay. It's the idea, the essence that counts. The idea of pleasing those who made this community grow in the first place. The idea of making something enjoyable.
I say it as clearly as possible: I don't think that this idea is the main reason behind the expansion of e-sports anymore.
Compare it to the video game industry. Are games developed to be as enjoyable as possible? Is that the main aspiration of the creators? WRONG! Games are developed to maximize profits. That's it. That's all there is to it. That is the reason why successful franchises are milked for all their worth even though the quality decreases. Games become simpler and simpler as they have to be marketed for a „broader audience“.
You could say: „Yes. It is natural. An industry couldn't survive if they wouldn't look for maximizing their profits.“
That might be true. But is that also applicable to the e-sports scene?
I constructed an ideal world. It might not be feasible in reality, but we have to ask ourselves how big the compromise has to be. An industry can't survive when they are not seeking to maximize their profits. But is e-sports just that? An industry?
Commercials and sponsors are not a bad thing. They help the scene grow. They make big events like the MLG and the GSL possible. The question is what role those sponsors should have. Should they be our ruler? Then you might like the road which e-sports is currently cruising along. Maybe, in a few years, you can enjoy a clean, completely soulless e-sports on TV with casters in suits and ties and commercials breaking up the action every 20 minutes. This is not as far-fetched as you might want.
I ask: What should those sponsors be to us? A necessary 'evil' perhaps? The tarnish in our ideal world? Isn't it fine, as long as the true ideal spirit of pleasing the community is upheld? Without any sponsors, we couldn't possibly hope to have events like the MLG, but does that mean that we have to crown them our kings?
He would probably love what is becoming of e-sports
What the big guys at the top are now planning for us is not completely clear. But some actions give us a good impression. Why should the MLG make events pay-per-view only if they wanted to appeal to us as much as possible? If they cannot maintain their business model in which free streams are available to everyone, wouldn't that indicate to just step back a bit? Decrease the amounts you spend? Maybe e-sports isn't just as big as you want it to be. Maybe it's all just a bubble.
I ask: Do we really want to maintain this state, even if that means to give in to the money-hungry locusts, that are just waiting for us to open the door?
This is way beyond the „necessary evil“ that I just talked about. If e-sports is just a playground for investors, then that is not the e-sports that I grew to love. And it is indeed far away from all those things, that made it come this far. An e-sports revolutions is fine. But it should always be founded at the bottom. What we experience is a revolution from the top.
Lotsa_Spaghetti, editor of TaKeTV
___
You can find all blog entries on our site: TaKeTV
Click here to get to this entry on our site.Last edit: 2012-06-16 02:11:51
  |
|
|
| Smancer United States. June 16 2012 01:58. Posts 353 | Profile Blog # |
Can you clarify something?
You say that games are no longer developed to be enjoyable but rather to maximized profit. But aren't enjoyable games more profitable than non enjoyable games? Can you point to a game that is not enjoyed but had huge profits? |
| | A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby." |
|
|
| TaKeTV Germany. June 16 2012 02:01. Posts 234 | Profile Blog # |
| Yes I can clarify: What I said is, that the MAIN ASPIRATION of the creators is not to make a great game, but to make profit. If course, your game has to be somewhat good to achieve that. But look at all those Call of Duty titels that are flooding the market. It's the intention that I wanted to get at. |
|
|
| fabiano Brazil. June 16 2012 02:10. Posts 3927 | Profile Blog # | |
| | "When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt |
|
|
| Zaranth United States. June 16 2012 02:32. Posts 345 | Profile Blog # |
Is a proposed solution coming in the next blog, or is this something we should be discussing?
|
| | Maker of Cheerfuls @eZaranth |
|
|
| jpak United States. June 16 2012 02:33. Posts 3745 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 02:10 fabiano wrote:
eSports doesn`t exist.
ESPORTS is a lie. |
| | CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL! I am not jpak of jpak and friends, so stop asking me please. |
|
|
| tehemperorer United States. June 16 2012 02:43. Posts 2180 | Profile Blog # |
I would clarify further that although most game developers want to make really good games, the bottom line is what ultimately decides how good the game is allowed to be. I like to hope that our generation, as it ages, matures and becomes financially able to sponsor the events as the current generation of investors do now, except with a greater amount of understanding and love for eSports. I think those with money now are not in touch with the generation that watches it, and eSports could very well become some money making soulless abomination but only because those with the money have no connection to video games (they didn't grow up with them).
I kind of hope the spirit of Blizzard carries over to eSports investors/stakeholders. When I hear people from Blizzard talk, there is a sense that they are driven by the bottom line, but also an importance given to community driven development. I think they know that the only way a game has any longevity is by tightly coupling the community to the game so that the game can live on as long as the community wills it. I know from my own experience that after WoW got really shitty (TBC) and I bounced for newer games, they didn't last long because no one I knew played them. I realized that the reason I played WoW and War3 was that people I knew played it, with it's only requirement being that it was a decent game. If they alienated the community, however, and if they blatantly sold the soul of the game (tourneys, events, LANs) like a hooker to the highest bidder, the game won't last long at all.
EDIT: god that guy in the picture looks like a smarmy prick. I want to punch his face in and chew on his bones wait no just the first part.Last edit: 2012-06-16 02:45:58 |
| | Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers. |
|
|
| Baum Germany. June 16 2012 02:46. Posts 997 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 01:58 Smancer wrote:
Can you clarify something?
You say that games are no longer developed to be enjoyable but rather to maximized profit. But aren't enjoyable games more profitable than non enjoyable games? Can you point to a game that is not enjoyed but had huge profits?
It is a bad assumption to think that the goal of maximizing profit does lead to more enjoyable games or to better products in general. Just look at Diablo 3: Wasn't that a very profitable game but wouldn't a lot players agree that Blizzard didn't make it the best game they could have. There is a huge difference between trying to create the best game you possibly can with the resources you have or trying to get the most monetary value out of a game while having to invest as little as possible. It's just logical. I am not saying game developers aren't trying to make good games but they are just part of the industry. They can't change the system as long as they work for the big companies.Last edit: 2012-06-16 02:48:04 |
| | I want to be with those who share secret things or else alone. |
|
|
| TrippSC2 United States. June 16 2012 02:49. Posts 177 | Profile Blog # |
I don't buy it.
The sponsors are evil, yet they allow players to make money playing video games.
PPV is evil, yet it allows event organizers to make money organizing events where players make money playing video games.
The only thing that seems unreasonable that you mentioned would be chopping up games to put commercials in the middle, which would lower viewership and hurt profitability, so I have to believe that won't happen.
I guess it really depends on what you want for competitive gaming. Personally, I'd like this to be a viable industry that people are able to pursue careers in and make a legitimate living from. |
|
|
| Lotsa_Spaghetti Germany. June 16 2012 03:30. Posts 44 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 02:49 TrippSC2 wrote:
I don't buy it.
The sponsors are evil, yet they allow players to make money playing video games.
PPV is evil, yet it allows event organizers to make money organizing events where players make money playing video games.
I will reply to that with a direct quote from the text:
Commercials and sponsors are not a bad thing. They help the scene grow. They make big events like the MLG and the GSL possible. The question is what role those sponsors should have. Should they be our ruler? Then you might like the road which e-sports is currently cruising along. Maybe, in a few years, you can enjoy a clean, completely soulless e-sports on TV with casters in suits and ties and commercials breaking up the action every 20 minutes. This is not as far-fetched as you might want.
I ask: What should those sponsors be to us? A necessary 'evil' perhaps? The tarnish in our ideal world? Isn't it fine, as long as the true ideal spirit of pleasing the community is upheld? Without any sponsors, we couldn't possibly hope to have events like the MLG, but does that mean that we have to crown them our kings?
Again, the point I desperately want to bring across is not that the actions themselves are bad (necessarily), but the intentions behind them. Those intentions may lead our scene into a dark future.Last edit: 2012-06-16 03:33:08 |
| |
|
| Heu Germany. June 16 2012 04:21. Posts 5 | Profile # |
on the other side if you compare it to regular sports I dont see this dark future.
I think for example football is characteristic for big sponsorships and commercials all the way .
it's just an unavoidable thing in my opinion that automatically comes with growth and football still have masses of fans all over the globe enjoying cheering for their teams. why exactly should this be different in esports? |
| |
|
| [Silverflame] Germany. June 16 2012 07:20. Posts 604 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 04:21 Heu wrote:
on the other side if you compare it to regular sports I dont see this dark future.
I think for example football is characteristic for big sponsorships and commercials all the way .
it's just an unavoidable thing in my opinion that automatically comes with growth and football still have masses of fans all over the globe enjoying cheering for their teams. why exactly should this be different in esports?
And keep in mind that sports can not be "professional" without any sponsorship, because you have no product which could make all the money for you... Entertainment alone is nothing that could support a living for all competitors. |
| | Fav P Stork / Fav T Fantasy / Fav Z Hoejja |
|
|
| TrippSC2 United States. June 16 2012 11:07. Posts 177 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 03:30 Lotsa_Spaghetti wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 02:49 TrippSC2 wrote:
I don't buy it.
The sponsors are evil, yet they allow players to make money playing video games.
PPV is evil, yet it allows event organizers to make money organizing events where players make money playing video games.
I will reply to that with a direct quote from the text:
Show nested quote +Commercials and sponsors are not a bad thing. They help the scene grow. They make big events like the MLG and the GSL possible. The question is what role those sponsors should have. Should they be our ruler? Then you might like the road which e-sports is currently cruising along. Maybe, in a few years, you can enjoy a clean, completely soulless e-sports on TV with casters in suits and ties and commercials breaking up the action every 20 minutes. This is not as far-fetched as you might want.
I ask: What should those sponsors be to us? A necessary 'evil' perhaps? The tarnish in our ideal world? Isn't it fine, as long as the true ideal spirit of pleasing the community is upheld? Without any sponsors, we couldn't possibly hope to have events like the MLG, but does that mean that we have to crown them our kings?
Again, the point I desperately want to bring across is not that the actions themselves are bad (necessarily), but the intentions behind them. Those intentions may lead our scene into a dark future.
I read the text and didn't need it quoted back to me. It's still overly vague and not convincing to me. It seems like a lot rhetoric that doesn't have any clear basis in fact and thus doesn't make me a believer.
Sponsors want to make money. In order for eSports to be a legitimate business (not guys in a basement playing for shits and giggles) then there will need to be some sacrifices. If you're looking to convince me that that is a problem, then you're going to need to do more to persuade me than to tell me that the evil corporations might corrupt our perfect eSports world. |
|
|
| nttea Sweden. June 16 2012 11:29. Posts 4082 | Profile Blog # |
lotsa spaghetti?! you are adorable <3
edit: and i mean that in like, i totally agree with you!Last edit: 2012-06-16 11:32:57 |
|
|
| Aelonius Netherlands. June 16 2012 11:45. Posts 423 | Profile Blog # |
| I imagine this OP being read by Morgan Freeman..... <3 And that's a compliment |
| | ''The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.''—Ronald Reagan |
|
|
| vindKtiv United States. June 16 2012 12:36. Posts 213 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 11:07 TrippSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 03:30 Lotsa_Spaghetti wrote:
On June 16 2012 02:49 TrippSC2 wrote:
I don't buy it.
The sponsors are evil, yet they allow players to make money playing video games.
PPV is evil, yet it allows event organizers to make money organizing events where players make money playing video games.
I will reply to that with a direct quote from the text:
Commercials and sponsors are not a bad thing. They help the scene grow. They make big events like the MLG and the GSL possible. The question is what role those sponsors should have. Should they be our ruler? Then you might like the road which e-sports is currently cruising along. Maybe, in a few years, you can enjoy a clean, completely soulless e-sports on TV with casters in suits and ties and commercials breaking up the action every 20 minutes. This is not as far-fetched as you might want.
I ask: What should those sponsors be to us? A necessary 'evil' perhaps? The tarnish in our ideal world? Isn't it fine, as long as the true ideal spirit of pleasing the community is upheld? Without any sponsors, we couldn't possibly hope to have events like the MLG, but does that mean that we have to crown them our kings?
Again, the point I desperately want to bring across is not that the actions themselves are bad (necessarily), but the intentions behind them. Those intentions may lead our scene into a dark future.
I read the text and didn't need it quoted back to me. It's still overly vague and not convincing to me. It seems like a lot rhetoric that doesn't have any clear basis in fact and thus doesn't make me a believer. Sponsors want to make money. In order for eSports to be a legitimate business (not guys in a basement playing for shits and giggles) then there will need to be some sacrifices. If you're looking to convince me that that is a problem, then you're going to need to do more to persuade me than to tell me that the evil corporations might corrupt our perfect eSports world.
It seems to me as if you haven't been following e-sports for a while.
What sounds to you like "rhetoric" is actually steeped in history. CPL, WSVG, CGS, and many others were "legitimate business." What survived? Events based on "guys in a basement" like TSL, Evo, DH, and ESL/IEM, tournaments who are willing to run games because of the community and not because of the money. The whole reason why people are afraid of an "esports" bubble is because it has happened before and it can definitely happen again. Read up on your history, then you'll understand why a good number of people who know their shit are afraid of a possible bubble with all the "legitimate businesses" trying to get their share of the pie. |
|
|
| Candadar June 16 2012 13:15. Posts 1791 | Profile Blog # |
I just want to drop in here and get something off my chest I've been wanting to for a while. I think that people are kind of riding a high right now in terms of "esports" and wanting too much expansion at once. What people need to realize is that this is perhaps one of the most delicate things to promote in the world right now. Millions of people are out there, and millions dont even begin to understand why we play, the intricacies of the games we play, or why we would want to sit around and play/watch them. It's currently a niche, and something that can crash and burn. We got a single fucking chance to, for instance, go on TV and see how it works or it will be abandoned for basically ever.
What do I personally want? I personally want it to remain how it is. We're moving into an internet age, and I love the growth esports is getting but I feel that people are having far too much expectations and it can really hurt. However, I truly believe it's something that deserves to stay on the internet. Something that deserves to stay as a relative niche. I do not want to see MLG or whatever on public television in the U.S. Would it be cool? Sure, I guess. But I mean...it's just a future I don't want to see I feel. I don't want to see these games filled with so much passion covered by the bullshit advertisement deals that everything that gets big has to deal with. I dont want to have to watch people sell out and watching all that bullshit that comes with something getting "huge"
It's not really me being a hipster or something too. It's just, "e-sports" are something I love to watch and I'd rather keep it as something I can wake up early one morning jittery at 8AM to start watching a Dreamhack at my computer while chatting with bros on skype and steam groups instead of sitting at a couch watching some SC2 or DotA games. The latter just doesnt feel right to me, and I know many others feel the same and I feel that if we try to push this, dare I say, bubble, too far that it WILL pop. Like I said, e-sports are raising to an all-time high and I think we're riding this "high" wanting more and more and more which can really hurt.
I'm on a shit ton of vicodin and shit for my surgery so sorry if I'm a little incoherent, but I really wanted to get this off my chest while I still remember to  |
|
|
| Black[CAT] Malaysia. June 16 2012 13:55. Posts 2543 | Profile Blog # |
BW and other games in Korea has been on TV for a long time.
However, it was already proven that eSports dont exist, just some grand delusion.Last edit: 2012-06-16 13:58:18 |
| | You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both? |
|
|
| OpTiKSoul United States. June 16 2012 14:02. Posts 13 | Profile # |
| interesting point, but I don't think this is accurate. You seem to make it out that eSports will completely fall apart because all these businesses are only out to make money, and will ruin our organizations because they will somehow "own" us. please explain how they will own us? The Starcraft community has already shown how vicious we can be to sponsors. We are easily carried away by feeling like we need to correct some great wrong that is lieing dormant, ready to explode. perfect example would be destiny/orb making some poor word choices, and off we go to clense the world of racism. I feel like this has the same kind of feel, you feel like sponsors are calling too many shots and now we are going to rid corruption from eSports. Maybe this is exagerated, but I'm getting that kind of vibe. |
| | Head Manager of Team OpTiK |
|
|
| brinker June 16 2012 15:58. Posts 44 | Profile # |
Hey TakeTV. Myself, and many others think of you guys as how you are. Even if everything goes completely crazy with big corporations, you are still going to be good old TakeTV, with casters wearing T shirts and sitting on a cheap couch. Nothing could possibly change that, unless it is yourselves. Don't be so 'nervous' I guess i would call it. You don't have to change.
I'm going to bring the NBA, NFL, NHL, and MLB into the conversation now. They are as 'big buisness dominated' and 'sponsor ruled' as it gets. There is absolutely no argument against that. Now consider the following.
A)Do the players have as much fun
B)Do the spectators / communities have as much fun
C)Do the broadcasters have as much fun
If your answer no to these questions, then you have valid points. Here's my take on it.
A. Yes. More attention is also given to the people who desire it. (T.O, Chad Ochocinco, the list goes on).
B. This is very debatable, but right now I would have to say no. While it is easier to talk about in public because everyone knows about it, I think it's cool to have something special like e-sports as we have it right now. A positive thing is that the production value will be undoubtedly better with bigger business involved.
C. No. But i do not think e-sports broadcasters can be as uninteresting and boring as the current mainstream sports broadcasters are. It just will not work, under any circumstances. So this question may not matter as much.
I think that it will always be good for e-sports to get more money involved, but that doesn't necessarily mean television. Please remember the players, the people that depend on this industry to put their food on the table. It is definitely in their best interest to get more money into the scene by all means.
Also, look at this website, and its staff. It is going absolutely nowhere anytime soon. R1CH, motbob, hotbid, kennegit, and all the other ''nazi mods''/heads at TL probably will not even consider selling this site for anything. This community will ALWAYS be here how it has always been, no business is going to change that.
As an ending to this, I think that more money/sponsors in the scene is only a good thing. It very well might be too soon for television, we're going to have to see. But there is no reason we should try to keep e-sports small just for the sake of having it small. As I said before, please remember the people that rely on this industry to keep food on the table in your response.
Thanks for reading, keep rollin TaKe.TV
|
|
|
| 1 2 Next All |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
![[image loading]](http://taketv.net/uploads/triumphmarat2TL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://taketv.net/uploads/sdfTL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://taketv.net/uploads/bobbykotickTL.jpg)
