Hey guys, first blog! Just wrote a post about "Liquid Rising" that was quite substantial. I always wanted to star blogging on TL so figured I'd add it!
Although I was extremely impressed with the technical quality of the documentary(the director/editor is clearly very talented) I agree with others saying they weren't impressed with the actual content; I for the most part do not enjoy interviews and tend to just read transcripts because my reading/comprehension speed is too high for interviews and I get bored if nothing interesting is actually being discussed, aside from standardized questions and by the "say what I should say, not what I want to say" responses these tend to get.
I think this documentary was full of these kind of questions; although I have no doubt that the TL team is indeed genuine but I have no interest in ever watching it again as the simple fact is that there was no "action", nothing happened, there was no unveiling of a greater truth(excuse me for an extreme exaggeration on what a documentary should do but that is the idea). It was literally 1:30 of TL players saying how nice and cool each other are, with a few interesting points like Tyler and Sheth's segment, where atleast we got to shed light on their past and their real personality. Why didn't the documentary entitled "Liquid Rising" talk more about how Liquid came to be rather than a brief 10-15 minute overview on it's players? I would have loved to see more information on how TL started, on Nazgul's, Ret & Tyler's histories in BW. 2 minute video of Artosis going to Courage with Ret? Why can't we get the full story of Ret's trip to Korea? Anyone who doesn't know Ret's history(which I'm sure a lot of newer TL members won't if they aren't avid Ret fans), or any of the other player's for that matter, would literally have no context on what this is.
Although I did enjoy the watch-through because of how crisply it was put together, I did feel it was quite lacking enough interesting content such as a basic storyline(player goes to tournament, player gets battered/wins, following team around, showing everyday life, asking tough questions about the life of a progamer and how it affects them on a personal level), some action etc.
I just thought I'd post up a link to one of my favorite paintball films "Cereal Killerz". Liquid Rising reminded me of it because of the way it dealt with the individual players, one spotlight on a time. "Cereal Killerz" was basically a documentary where they did shorts on about 10-11 different players, with a short interview montage followed by action footage. I must have watched it about 1000 times and seeing it is really what inspired me to reach the top of the professional world of paintball, which is what a Esports documentary needs to do. Here's a link to my favorite 6 minute segment
Anyways, seeing as how this is the first real Esports documentary to have released, let's hope for better in the future!
Last edit: 2012-06-26 00:25:09
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Aelonius Netherlands. June 25 2012 21:31. Posts 421
I missed the accomplishments, highlights, and such. Jinro's run in GSL ro4 2x was way underlighted. There's not so much other than interviews, which is a shame
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GeNeSiDe United Kingdom. June 25 2012 21:33. Posts 354
On June 25 2012 21:31 Aelonius wrote: I missed the accomplishments, highlights, and such. Jinro's run in GSL ro4 2x was way underlighted. There's not so much other than interviews, which is a shame
That's what I mean exactly! It would have been so much cooler with stuff like, highlights from Jinro's run's, getting him to talk about some of the important moments like his 2x matchup with MC, how he prepared, some actions shots from the games etc.
Would have really spiced things up!
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I tend to agree. The title "Liquid Rising" creates the expectation that we're going to experience an in-depth look into Liquid's kitchen and how it became what it is today. But al we got was a quick animated timeline (which really doesn't do any of the highlights justice) and some fairly superficial interviews (liked Tyler's bit though).
Overall I think the documentary really failed to shine light on what Liquid is, we get the message that Liquid is not something you can describe in words, but then all we get is words. I think feelings are better conveyed through the showing of spontaneous interactions within Liquid, rather than doing mostly "official" sit down interviews where players are measuring their words with a camera in their face and the idea of a documentary in the back of their head.
Obviously much easier said than done, but at this point I wouldn't show this documentary to my parents to explain them what Liquid is.
Last edit: 2012-06-26 00:59:12
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GeNeSiDe United Kingdom. June 25 2012 22:46. Posts 354
I think it needed more nazgul in my view. It looked like they wanted to keep the focus on the team but nazgul was the guy that intrested me the most and i wantedto see more of. Whenever you interview players they tend to gravitate to the superfical side because it really serves no benefit to really anyone to put it all out on the table. I actually think huk was one of the guys that we got the best picture from when he noted some guy needed to take practice more or take it more seriously.
That being said i do feel it accomplished what it was trying to do in that it highlighted the pro players. I think the problem stems from that are expectations were very high and perhaps unfairly we expected it to be a tell all nothing off limits.
I agree, seemed like all the players had to say was, "He is so nice, its not even funny." I wanted to here the history, the tournament story line, and interviews with more personal questions.
On June 25 2012 22:50 iamperfection wrote: I think it needed more nazgul in my view. It looked like they wanted to keep the focus on the team but nazgul was the guy that intrested me the most and i wantedto see more of. Whenever you interview players they tend to gravitate to the superfical side because it really serves no benefit to really anyone to put it all out on the table. I actually think huk was one of the guys that we got the best picture from when he noted some guy needed to take practice more or take it more seriously.
That being said i do feel it accomplished what it was trying to do in that it highlighted the pro players. I think the problem stems from that are expectations were very high and perhaps unfairly we expected it to be a tell all nothing off limits.
Personally I really didn't have high expectations, but I was expecting more then just interviews with random clips that ''sorta'' go with the interviews. It should have been clips with interviews that supplement them.
There's that YouTube video of that WCG documentary that was mixed with Day9's 100th episode. That was a great mixture and greatly edited imo. It should have been more like that. Showing these unique moments with players perspectives on top of it. (Interviews) The stuff Artosis used to put out during eSTRO times when Idra / Ret / Nony went to Korea could also most likely be clipped into some decent documentary, would just need commentary. (Interviews) The quality would suck but the content potential would be amazing, since it gives an incredible insight to BW and e-sports in general when it comes to Korea. (Well, a few years ago that is.)
Instead this felt more like a introduction. ''Meet all the players.'' But that isn't really a documentary and in that case it shouldn't have been called Liquid Rising.
It's hard to put into words, but it simply didn't have that ''documentary'' feel to it. Maybe I'm spoiled after watching so many Vice videos.
I enjoyed watching it, but generally speaking I was a bit dissapointed.
GeNeSiDe United Kingdom. June 26 2012 00:25. Posts 354
Yea I'm kind of on the same page as you guys... It didn't feel like a documentary it was just a bunch of interviews. It seems ALL of the stuff that we all wanted to see (the highlights with the morphing graphic at the beginning) was squished into about 1 minute of footage.
2/5* IMO, I think it could have been much better. Where was the tourney footage? Where was the player interaction? It seems there was no "meaty" part of the documentary, it was all kind of just filler stuff.
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aike United States. June 26 2012 01:45. Posts 1263
Definitely agree... I kind of feel like JP's 'Real Talk' gets into more interview information i'd rather know about then most of what was covered by Liquid Rising. I mean there were some good parts in there, like sheth talking about his ID, and Nony talking about personal stuff. But I feel like for the most part the documentary wasn't personal enough, it was basically just rehashings of information they've already said in other interviews.
The graphics were good, the music was interesting. But the content just wasn't there for me.
Wahaha
Skeggaba Korea (South). June 26 2012 01:45. Posts 1509
I was very dissapointed as well; the graphics was amazing but there were absolutely no story in the film? Just patting each others backs (which is ok but doesnt deserve this kind of hype) Also i dont understand why it was delayed? Just edit in an interview with the new players afterwards and it would´ve been just as good. We didnt really get to see anything from the good runs in the tournaments anyways (which i hoped would be the focus of the film).
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
revel8 United Kingdom. June 26 2012 03:12. Posts 2704
I watched about 30 minutes of it. You get to see their faces and stuff, but the documentary didn't really try to say anything most TL users don't already know, so it was almost like it was meant for a broader audience than TL... But I don't know who else but TL users would watch it lol.
A bit masturbatory, in the end. But cool graphics? lol
I agree with the OP and most responses. I appreciated the effort of production (they certainly put in a lot of work) but it certainly wasn't a documentary. Some thoughts...
I would've liked to see a lot more backstory or "behind-the-scenes" footage. How did these players get to this point? Show us how team Liquid operates in the team house. Alright, every Liquid player thinks his teammate is the "nicest" or "hardest working" guy in the world, and that's great to hear, but show us this aspect of their life. There should have been more segments like the one where Haypro lost his match - you can capture a lot of emotion and substance from a win or loss from something like that. Or give us footage of your players practicing in house so we can see that perspective. If team Liquid is "rising" or going to be amazingly good in the coming months I would love to see how they can make that happen so I can remain hooked. Everyone has seen interviews before. There was definitely an opportunity here to show something more.
The player accomplishments at the start felt extremely rushed. Why not show those accomplishments during their face time of their introductions? Or show/remind us who they defeated on route to their titles?
I didn't understand showing the HuK footage. Maybe some of it was recorded before he joined EG but it felt out of place. Nice person, great player, great results, spoke positively about team Liquid, but left for a better deal from another team. Promoting Liquid players but including the HuK segment just sent a mixed message. Why give so much screen time to a player who is not even on your team anymore and instead allocate that time to your current players?
For some positives, I thought the video quality was excellent, including the flow and transition of scenes, the added color from casters was nice, and the music selection was great.
Forester United States. June 26 2012 05:21. Posts 109
On June 26 2012 04:50 crajittok wrote: I didn't understand showing the HuK footage. Maybe some of it was recorded before he joined EG but it felt out of place. Nice person, great player, great results, spoke positively about team Liquid, but left for a better deal from another team. Promoting Liquid players but including the HuK segment just sent a mixed message. Why give so much screen time to a player who is not even on your team anymore and instead allocate that time to your current players?
I actually thought the HuK parts to be really interesting. He has the viewpoint of a former member who has now moved on to see what other teams have to offer. There were times (i.e. his comments on TLO's mindset) where he offered personal knowledge and insight into the guys that you just can't get from anyone else. I honestly felt that he wanted to say a lot more but held back because he was in front of the camera on record and all.
Great blog though I agree with you on pretty much everything, 5/5.
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GeNeSiDe United Kingdom. June 26 2012 18:16. Posts 354
On June 26 2012 04:50 crajittok wrote: I didn't understand showing the HuK footage. Maybe some of it was recorded before he joined EG but it felt out of place. Nice person, great player, great results, spoke positively about team Liquid, but left for a better deal from another team. Promoting Liquid players but including the HuK segment just sent a mixed message. Why give so much screen time to a player who is not even on your team anymore and instead allocate that time to your current players?
I actually thought the HuK parts to be really interesting. He has the viewpoint of a former member who has now moved on to see what other teams have to offer. There were times (i.e. his comments on TLO's mindset) where he offered personal knowledge and insight into the guys that you just can't get from anyone else. I honestly felt that he wanted to say a lot more but held back because he was in front of the camera on record and all.
Great blog though I agree with you on pretty much everything, 5/5.
Yeah I think the Huk clips were my favorite interviews, as well as the Tyler/Sheth segments. The one thing that I didn't like that I EXPECTED to like...was the Day9 clips. I really like his never serious, bubbly personality usually but I felt in this film it didn't really fit...
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GeNeSiDe United Kingdom. June 25 2012 21:28. Posts 354
