Rather than writing a long laborious blog, i recorded a 30 minute pondering video to discuss the awkwardness that the community doesn't seem to be able to put its finger on. A lack of experience amongst many personalities and egos in the SC2 scene and how they react (and fail) to pressure under the spotlight.
To be fair to the SOTG guys, this blog will seem very much like its directed at the SOTG hosts because of how vague i am with some of the names (and specifically addressing JP, Geoff and Greg), but it's really not. It applies to an entire subculture of young men in esports celeb status at different stages of maturity, some developed more than others. It may seem implied that I'm suggesting JP/Geoff/Greg are examples here etc but it's not the entire point -i can only compare them to my own life experience, and could certainly be wrong in their specific cases. Knowing somewhere close to 100 pros/personalities though, i feel comfortable making a general statement about the lack of maturity around the scene.
One of the points i didn't address which Geoff thought i should have was that of girls/sex etc that has affected a lot of pros (includiing Liquid`!). I've seen tons of guys "fall in love" in the face of brand new attention from girls and get all messed up at tournaments due to a lack of experience with it. Should have put it in the blog in retrospect so i'll add it here! It's another major symptom of this Zero to Hero situation.
In retrospect i could have made it more succinct and and streamlined, but deal with it
Last edit: 2012-06-30 10:03:21
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CCsyph United Kingdom. June 30 2012 08:57. Posts 95
After only reading the tl;dr I will say this: That has certainly been brought to the surface recently with the SotG fiasco and the EG lash out at TB for legitimate criticism.
EDIT: After watching the whole thing I want to preface my feedback by saying I couldn't have articulated the happenings of the previous days in a more neutral and understanding manner, well done to you, Kennigit. I also want to say that you should, most certainly make these vlogs irregular - only appearing to give thoughts on current drama, then disappearing back into the abyss as swiftly as they arrived.
I think you are right in what you say, Kennegit. I too have gone through the same experiences of a pseudo 'coming of age' which you described. To me it seems that the figure heads of our community are those who are most undeserving of these roles, with the exception of Artosis (Peace be upon him), of course. I mean no offence to these people when I say this but IdrA, NonY, iNcontroL and JP are hardly at the forefront of their chosen fields. JP being a good caster but he's certainly not up there with the best -- I'm sure he would be the first to admit that. Both IdrA & NonY are currently in slumps. iNcontroL, is undiagnosable. These people have no claim to be where they are, which to me, is why the very notion that these people have the most power in our community is frankly, absurd. Results should come first, then fame.
Geoff and IdrA do not have legitimate fame. Their fame is derived from drama, either by causing or exacerbating it. IdrA, obviously being excessively infamous for his rage. While Geoff for his typically American, outspoken and opinionated nature. SotG has degenerated into a forum of negative comments, bashing anyone who makes a mistake or a questionable decision. But the worst thing about it all is that these comments go unchallenged, when they are challenged we get the Avilo result. I see SotG as the Fox news - Geoff being the Bill O'Reilly - of our scene, whilst The GD show is on the other end of the spectrum (I don't know what the opposite News programme would be in America).
We all saw how badly and defensively Geoff lashed out at TotalBiscuit for making an educated observation. If the same statement had been put forward to say, NonY, about his current training regime I'm sure the results would be exponentially different. Anyone without such a huge ego would not have gone to such lengths attempting to rebute TB's statement.
Geoff and Greg, you have a lot of growing up to do.
I'm writing this while listening, so I'm sorry if I tend to repeat what you say.
The first thing I wanted to note from your video (1:00++) is that yeah, it's a real problem that the business relationship between people, that live off their images and the content spread they can provide, is also reliant on personal relationships, which makes having opinions on anyone, no matter how raw, true, blunt or realistic, is going to hutr you in the long-run. Not everyone knows everyone, but we know someone who might know someone and that's things start to get meddlesome and connections, opportunties and creation of "jobs" or spots at the top are created more on personal basis than professional validity, but that might also be a hint of my cynicism.
The top 0.1% guys are probably humble about themselves because they know who they are, they're comfortable and accepting and they know their place. That's a security a lot of people in a variety of places within all scenes just don't have, including myself. In an unsure growing scene with a lot of changes and a lot rising and drowning of people, it's completely normal that the newer people of a new legitimizing scene are just insecure about their place. Instead of confidently knowing who they are, a lot of people puff their chest and tell others who they are to have that reflect back to them and thus reassure what they're projecting. Social media promotes this sort of thinking and other ways to quantify one's importance also helps this (followers, likes, viewer counts).
I agree that there is a slight alienation of maybe courtesy, consideration and socialistic experiences that affect a lot of people who have had their social lives flipped upside-down in a new media or form of interaction. I mean yeah... maybe some famous people don't know how to handle some social awkward or odd scenarios, but there are people in real places who still don't have that experience. It's why we have PR associates or people actually experienced in this field. They, themselves, do not become popular, but they make sure those who are, continue to do popular things.
And I think that's where you should branch off too. JP is the PR of MLG, he is the public image of what bridges MLG to the community. You could also give that Sundance, but he has a way of drawing a line between him and the massive community. Geoff is another public image and he's gotten a lot of flack over recent years (remember when NASL first started?). You have all these people who are representative of large organizations and have to struggle with being themselves as well as minding their boundaries and what's ok and not ok. That line is definitely not easily drawn with such a diverse group of people and it's just easier, as a lot of personalities do, to just sweep the whole lot of away and wash your hands: do as you feel what's comfortable, but also be mindful of at least the basic expectations of professionalism. And boy does professionalism have such an eslacity to its definition, especially in here. You know, a lot of current top "stars" are in that paranoid corner of trying to step in a mouse-trap of verbal misinterpretation, misrepresentation or simply leashing themselves and that's fucking hard. It's really hard especially when your personal life is also on the rims of public exposure. When you compare how much people love Tasteless, but how little they really know of him beyond what he does and how much they love iNcontrol and how much they know about him, EG and his associates, there's a lot of distinctions to be made and the personal with the professional with the spoken and unspoken parts of lives of people makes things very messy and very blurry. Shit, I'm even confusing myself now.
I also feel you could have gone deeper and just considered maybe that the community wants to recycle or cycle through new people. I mean, we're seeing new names come up on Reddit everyday as people start trying to find their new iconic person to love. It's a potential shift and search for something new, different, more attainable to people's new standards that just keeps going up and up. But I mean, it's not just Reddit, a variety of bipolar hate/love switches on almost any person, even for a brief moment, that makes this whole scene uneven with unsureness. It's just the standards of communities and the unspoken population as a whole who don't necessarily have anything to say, but if someone mentions it, they're ready to agree because it is in line with how they ultimately feel.
OH fuck there it is, the mention of arrogance. Arrogance is a fucking huge problem. I actually can't stand it and I'm going to use your blog to voice my own annoyance. I have met a lot of people, a lot of people in different levels and parts of jobs. There's these pockets of self-indulging people who just love both that their opinions are validated and they get an implied confirmation that what they're saying has not only validity, but a truth that objectively rings in concurrence to all their people. But there's a reason why people inflate their narcissism so much and you don't mention this (not yet). In this scene, a lot of people aren't paid or repaid in the forms of any compensations. Appreciation is counted by the very quanities I named above and through networking. They do all these volunteers jobs to remain relevant to the scene and thus gives them a hand in the pot that let's them speak to the general forum of involved people. The reason they talk so much about themselves and are so overtly critical of so many people above them is because they're frustrated with their own situation. I don't want to mix in jealousy and denial, but you mention that some people just don't realize they're replaceable and those at the top, because of their image, simply are not. So you have this frustration of people who are both starting to realize they are replaceable in line with also the fact that foundations of the big leagues are not heavily corrupt, but majorly flawed in one way or another. It's just a frustrating thought that you are doing small-time writing articles or opinion editorials and the people are the top are doing so many things, you/they persoanlly think they can do better, despite not always or ever having been in that position.
That's my rant, but it's also a lesson that it is growing pains, a stress stretch of replaceable volunteers who want to do and be something that matters. It's a youthful dream of growing up in a place you love and adore. Perhaps I glazed it too much with those last lines, but what you're saying about arrogance has a huge backlog of issues with this establishing place. I mean, you see reddit topics, CONSTANTLY, about asking everyone to follow "this guy" or vote for this "unsung hero" or to give some recognition to this person and its just a blunt showing of both unequal reward (sentimental or materialistic) for a lot of work. Whether that person is replaceable or not sometimes doesn't even matter, because the next person will equally feel emotionally unappeased, but striving and yearning to do more to earn what he feels he's earned.
It's great to see you pull the plug (I hope we can still be acquainted somehow haha :B), but you're also in a position where you can step back and cut off ties that just don't serve the purpose you like or need. Not everyone can do that have to sift through bullshit of people just to ensure that the person is in a position of opportunities or possibility of his next step towards a place he might like, to go where he likes to go. E-Sports is an escape for a lot of people and you hear stories of some established people who used to do carpet cleaning, or flipping burgers. I mean, look at some of the comments I get about a guide I wrote. Granted, he or she speaks some truth, but there is so much condescension and poor choice of words that just makes me red in the face and its hard not to tell the person to go fuck himself (you should see the whole p.m and its not just him or her, there are a lot of people who are similar in one way or another who just need that reality check)
Creating a guide for kids who are interested in getting into eSports I think is not even necessary. It is incredibly easy to become involved, even at a very young age.
Perhaps out of context, it's not that bad. Maybe I'm just personally bias and I need the reality check??
Case in point, yeah a reality check is needed, but no one wants to point them out specifically and calling them out and why should they? I mean, you did a good job with your blog and you're definitely writing something elightening here, but what is the ultimate outcome you're hoping for and in the end. Also, is deflating people's ego really a good idea if that's what keeps pushing them to continue to create new things or support new ideas? Knowing that some people know me on an internet forum has a huge influence my decisions, also how I want to present myself in one way or another, but it also gives me a confidence that keeps me attached to this community and wanting to do a little bit more so I can meet even more people. There's just too many shades of grey here for people to go after and start rectifying anything.
I like to think of this scene as a Jenga game. When the tower first started, it was small with a strong foundation. As time passed and the tower grew, some of the blocks that were at the bottom are now building a new foundation at the top, but the bottom is losing its balance and shifting the weight and direction of Jenga/this scene. In my grand view of it all, despite how limited it is, I see this scene just constantly shifting and changing new people, new emergence of ideas, leagues, refined and perfected to mirror what we once saw as a strong foundation at the very beginning of this game and then it'll look imperfect and things keep going up and building...
E-Sports is Jenga I suppose and the blocks will constantly form new foundational ideas.
Last edit: 2012-06-30 10:04:37
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atmuh United States. June 30 2012 09:03. Posts 240
I think you've done a good job navigating minefields with this. Which is funny since you spent time discussing the social reservation that has grown with the popularity of Starcraft.
I think one of the problems with popularity is not every guy is going to read or listen to the entire story. In our 24/7 news world where most things are summarized into a soundbyte or sensational title. I'm misquoting you here half intentionally for the point-
"If someone cheats at a tournament you should blame the tournament not the cheater" -Kennigit
Yeah, so, I just pulled out literally a 3 second slice of a much bigger point you were making about personal culpability and how the fans shouldn't be responsible for feeding off the drama SotG or any show produces.
That's the problem. If people don't have the time or won't spend the time to get the whole story then these shitty, inaccurate quotes EXPLODE with hundreds of upvotes or replies and the whole thing gets blown out of proportion. This is just a hypothetical example whatever but here's a real one from yesterday:
"MKP doesn't know how to play the game. Does random shit." IdrA Top Response idra in 2012 33-78 MKP in 2012 171-78
So, a little pithy comment can just explode into this big finger pointing crap. Maybe it wouldn't have gone noticed if there wasn't the avilo drama or if it wasn't Idra or whatever.
I think that touches on what you were talking about. The scene that I'm used to, that I started reading TL around was never the golden age stuff that gets bumped for nostalgia. It's this era of watching what you say or having your brainfart immortalized in a /r/starcraft imgur album.
It really sucks that people higher up in the scene have to be guarded but that's just one of those shitty universal facts. Yeah you're going to have Paris Hiltons or whatever to act foolish and get attention but that's the exception.
Last edit: 2012-06-30 09:56:06
우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by
nath United States. June 30 2012 09:08. Posts 1315
On June 30 2012 08:54 Kennigit wrote: Rather than writing a long laborious blog, i recorded a 30 minute pondering video to discuss the awkwardness that the community doesn't seem to be able to put its finger on. A lack of experience amongst many personalities and egos in the SC2 scene and how they react (and fail) to pressure under the spotlight.
tl;dr: SC2 is very much like high school because most progamers/celebs etc didn't gain the social experience when they were younger.
In retrospect i could have made it more succinct and and streamlined, but deal with it
this is why i think the importance of good and borderline 'fatherly' management is underrated in esports
Founder of Flow Enterprises, LLC http://flow-enterprises.com/
Emperor_Earth United States. June 30 2012 09:08. Posts 775
"[TeamLiquid are] all just a bunch of circle jerking elitists trying to increase their post count and have provacative statements to warrant a quote" - Gamegene
Thank you Kennigit. This was the best SC2 related content have I seen in quite some time. Totally get why you cannot do your own show but I have to say the scene is poorer for it after hearing your mature thoughts.
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