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| thegeek574 United States. July 08 2012 10:44. Posts 22 | Profile Blog # |
Hello all,
I would like to just put out some thoughts that I have had on the results that we have seen recently regarding the hellion, queen changes, and especially the phenomenon we see quite commonly now, which is that most, if not all, Terrans are eliminated from a tournament before they reach the quarter finals. Having just seen the fall of the Terrans in Homestory cup, I was struck by the massive change that has come upon us in that Terrans, who once dominated almost every tournament, are now hard pressed to put up similar results. Even MVP, who is not only a 4-time GSL champion but also the most recent, was not able to make his way through the 2 Zergs in his group. While they both were good, neither one of them would most likely have been expected to defeat MVP. With this in mind, let's take a look at what has happened along the way from a while ago that changed everything in this matchup. The two main parts that we will look at is the more obvious, which is the essential shutdown of the early game hellion harass against Zerg, and the less obvious, which I think is the utilization of the queen as a support unit.
(Note: I played Zerg for a while, and then took a long break and started playing Terran. I then switched back to Zerg, and then tried Protoss. I am really not that specific as to what race I root for as much as I root for the player that I feel is the most skilled. Also, I don't want this devolving into a group balance whine. Balance can often be determined by trends of play as much as by specific units. One more note: I am basing the statements off of what I have seen from pro players, not what I have seen on the ladder, because I am silver :D)
First of all, the hellion. Let's take a little ride down memory lane and think back to when 2 blue-flame hellions could roast a drone line in a single shot with day[9] yelling "LINE EM UP!!!" in the background. Then we saw the damage that blue flame wreaked reduced in patch 1.4.0 so that workers would not die in 2 shots, but 3. While this basically relegated the blue flame upgrade to mech builds where hellions were used as a mineral dump, the hellion was still employed extensively in the early game to destroyed mineral lines with mass numbers of reactored hellions. This ruined many a Zerg’s day. However, something huge happened. That thing was the queen change brought about in the balance update after patch 1.4.3 BU. That brings us to our next section.
The queen is a unit that is used in almost every game of Starcraft that involves a Zerg player. they massively increase the efficiency of a hatchery, lair or hive, to the point that they essentially become necessary. However, their skills other than inject larvae were mostly left to sit in a dark corner, and were rarely employed, even by Zergs. Creep spread was the thing that was used more to show that a player had leftover APM and less that he was actually relying upon it. Transfuse was also rarely used, except for the very occasional player that decided queen-ultra was a good strategy and used the queen's transfuse to create the immortal ultralisk (see what I did there?). That also changed, however, when 1.4.3 BU rolled around. This brings us to the next section.
After 1.4.3 BU, the intersection of queen and hellion changed from a speedy hunter dodging around the slow guardian of the drone line to get inside and have a BBQ, to a hunter who was suddenly met with a rain of projectiles from a guardian that no longer needed to move in most cases. Zergs soon figured that more of a good thing must be better, and so they started using 4 queen and 6 queen openings to essentially shut down early harass. It did that shockingly well. Hellions were soon almost never used. When they were, they rarely justified their cost. The queen changed the harass game tremendously. However, players also noticed something else. They began to notice that creep spread was pretty good. Being able to have a creep tumor blocking your opponent's expansions was pretty useful. Knowing where someone was on the map at all times was also pretty cool. Soon, creep spread was a normal thing. Massive creep lanes were, and still are, a common sight. The queen began to justify it's cost more and more.
All this combined to change the way that the matchup worked. The Zerg knew that a push was coming almost after it left the enemy base in many cases, and even early game pushes were sometimes sited before they were on the Zerg half of the map. The Terran not only had to attack just to kill creep, but they also had to waste precious OC energy and engage more and more where Zerg would have a speed advantage. Combined with the shutdown of the early game harass, specifically from hellions, Zergs gained a huge advantage.
I would just like to wrap this whole thing up with a final thought. I think that if the queen change was rolled back tomorrow, I think very little would change. Players are beginning to realize the potential of the queen, and I think that the range was only the final straw that pushed them into widespread use.
These are just some thoughts that I came up with. Let me know what you think. Just to emphasize, I suck at the game. I watch the pros a lot though, and so I make my judgments off their play for the most part.
Thanks for reading,
Geek
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| | one fish, two fish, red fish, NUKE FISH!!!! from the nuke funday monday |
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| ninazerg United States. July 08 2012 11:41. Posts 1952 | Profile Blog # |
MVP isn't going to be "THE BEST" forever. At some point, he's going to slump, and you can't correlate that with how you feel that Zerg is "unfair".
Guess what? Life's not fair. Life is OP, and there's no one to nerf it. |
| | Holder of Excalibur, savior of Eria. | |
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| Thaniri Canada. July 08 2012 12:34. Posts 559 | Profile Blog # |
On July 08 2012 11:41 ninazerg wrote:
MVP isn't going to be "THE BEST" forever. At some point, he's going to slump, and you can't correlate that with how you feel that Zerg is "unfair".
Guess what? Life's not fair. Life is OP, and there's no one to nerf it.
Someone is pissed off today.
I don't mean to be patronizing, but as he is a silver player, he likely has low understanding of the deep strategy of the game so all he has to base his opinion on is his own experience (which he omitted) and what he sees on streams.
I tried to be as inoffensive as possible, but I probably did it again. |
| | Thaniri.336 NA, Thaniri.207 TW, SteamID boblepoh. |
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| boomudead1 United States. July 08 2012 12:49. Posts 183 | Profile Blog # |
| doesnt matter if hes silver or gm. he has a points. but the topics been around for a long time. and no one cares. i also agree that queen range upgrade is not needed. for the patch. overlord speed is fine imo |
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| Im_hell United States. July 08 2012 14:24. Posts 16 | Profile # |
it feels like you described hellions as drone killer, but its main role is to deny creep spread.
im not trying to be a jerk or anything, but i just get annoyed when people think hellion as a suiciding drone killer |
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| serge Russian Federation. July 08 2012 15:01. Posts 142 | Profile Blog # |
1 star because of sub-par balance whine. This is the Blogs section, feel free to whine as much as you want here.
Im_hell you seem to be the hellion authority. I will vote for you to be hellion president. |
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| Murlox France. July 08 2012 15:02. Posts 1084 | Profile Blog # |
On July 08 2012 11:41 ninazerg wrote:
MVP isn't going to be "THE BEST" forever. At some point, he's going to slump, and you can't correlate that with how you feel that Zerg is "unfair".
Guess what? Life's not fair. Life is OP, and there's no one to nerf it.
Nobody's talking about life here, expect you. Terran has been raped to the ground. Actually, where are the Terrans? I watch the streams, IPL, Zotac, and anything I grab, and I don't see no Terrans ?
Look at some "lesser" competitive terran play (jinro, qxc), you can tell their frustration. People have been saying to adapt, but just look at any Terran successful enough to reach the tournament level : it's always mass MMM, in every matchup. I don't even appreciate watching competitive Terran anymore, so annoying to see how reductive the gameplay has became.
Honest question : could anyone give me the name of a competitive Terran that has been having "convincing wins" (not in mirror) in the recent months? It would give me some heart back.
Edit : i'm slightly off topic... bare with my despair... on topic, the new improved queens are not only effective vs hellions but having more queens also nullifies any (already perilous) banshee harass, which leaves the Terran with... MMM, fucking A.Last edit: 2012-07-08 15:10:49 |
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| Integra Sweden. July 08 2012 16:13. Posts 4995 | Profile Blog # |
Problem why no one cares about this is that Terran is getting far form ROLF stomped vs Zerg.
Terran is still winning games, they are however having problems reaching the semi and final brackets though, as in it was not as easy as before. Further most games of the Zerg doesn't go 2-0 to the Zerg, most of the time its a 1-2 where the terran takes a couple of games before losing the series, allot of the games where the Zerg advances the Zerg only goes 2-3 queens total, so the queen buff doesn't really matter in those games.
And another reason why we don't see any Terran in the higher stages is because they don't seem to be able to beat Protoss players at all. If anything the Terran vs Protoss MU seems very hard for Terran atm.Last edit: 2012-07-08 16:13:59 |
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| Im_hell United States. July 09 2012 02:25. Posts 16 | Profile # |
On July 08 2012 16:13 Integra wrote:
Problem why no one cares about this is that Terran is getting far form ROLF stomped vs Zerg.
Terran is still winning games, they are however having problems reaching the semi and final brackets though, as in it was not as easy as before. Further most games of the Zerg doesn't go 2-0 to the Zerg, most of the time its a 1-2 where the terran takes a couple of games before losing the series, allot of the games where the Zerg advances the Zerg only goes 2-3 queens total, so the queen buff doesn't really matter in those games.
And another reason why we don't see any Terran in the higher stages is because they don't seem to be able to beat Protoss players at all. If anything the Terran vs Protoss MU seems very hard for Terran atm.
i agree with him, terrans not getting absolutely owned by zerg, but its still rare then terran win vs zerg (series not single MU)
he mentioned that zerg wins in 3-2 most of the game, but its more like 3-1  and those are when its a terran favored maps or
when terran successfully cheese or when zerg makes a mistake.
And its true that terran is having problems vs toss, too. i think reason behind that is because in lotta maps is toss favored in TvP (no open space and no space to drop well) |
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