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| Thaniri Canada. July 13 2012 05:48. Posts 559 | Profile Blog # |
This blog post is inspired by me giving myself an ultimatum. I have one year of highschool left ahead of me, then I'm off to some sort of post secondary uni, trades school, work, I don't know yet. In this year I want to discover, through the past, and looking to the future, how I improve, and to even become good at Starcraft. Some people say 'I will grind 60 games a day', but more and more I am feeling that it is not worth doing until you have understood your mental habits and how to maximize them for improvement.
As a result of this understanding, I want to also stop wasting time on SC2. My 8 hours on the computer, is probably the equivalent of 2-3 hours of any pro gamer. But rather than making myself get 8 hours of progamer time, I want to simply get 2-3 hours of progamer time and get better grades in school. I finished the 2011/2012 school year with an 82% average, and am redoing precalc 11 and physics 11 this summer to even hope to get to a university.
On to the starcraft side of shit, which is what this website is about:
I suck at Starcraft. Well, maybe not. I represent the top 1% of North America in skill. I can take down GMs and top masters. But I’ve been in mid masters for 5 season now. Perhaps I suck at improving?
This is a question I pursued for a day, first beginning in the realm of Starcraft, then later in my life. Answering this question for myself, I felt I had to analyze how I was learning in the low leagues, and break those tendencies, habits, down into comprehensible statements, and I wanted to recall if there was anything in my history I could learn from. Understanding the foundation to build a pyramid if you will. For anyone who plays in a woodwind band, orchestra, symphony what have you, remember when you started and the director would always explain how the band is like a pyramid with the bass instruments on the bottom and alto on the top.
To tackle the question at hand. How was I improving at SC2? At the time I picked up the game....
Here is where it gets hazy, as I do not think I have made a proper analysis of this, ever. So I do not know whether I am looking at the right things, in the correct way, so I will just hope that what I do come up with, some of it is good.
In bronze league, I learned what the units did. And how to make them. I would abuse the powers and weaknesses of these units. For example, my composition was marine to expand, then viking to kill their air and land in their mineral lines, then battlecruiser to seal the deal. In my low level mind, I knew the role of my units at each time of the game, what I wanted to do with them, what my opponents are doing and how it relates to what I am doing. So that is how I got top 8 bronze.
Into silver, all the way to diamond, I still didn’t know of a pro scene, but I did know that there were build order guides on the internet. I attribute my success in these stages completely to knowing what a build order is, and executing it. I got into top 8 diamond with an average of 20-30 apm in all my games.
That can’t be it though. One thing can’t be the difference between a silver player and a masters player.
I spent so little time in gold and platinum, that I feel it is not even worth analysing my thoughts during those days. I will skip ahead to diamond.
In diamond, I would think about the game more. My thoughts were outside of the game though. My nooby little mind began to formulate more complicated, and effective compositions, and build orders to effectively get to that stage. I began to analyse positioning in starcraft. At this point, I will bring out my mighty diamond e-Penis at the time and say with confidence, I probably had the best diamond macro on the server. However, this macro meant nothing when you still played at 20-30 apm and your camera was in your base for 95% of the game. My solution was not to play faster, but rather to move smarter. I would move my tanks along ridges, rather than open ground. I would drop once, then dash forward to get an aggressive siege position. I would eventually stop walking on to creep with my army.
I also discovered a pro scene. I’m not quite sure about the chronology, but I distinctly remember the great reign of the blue flame hellion. I didn’t like the hellion, so against terrans I began to play a marauder, tank, viking composition and that worked fine.
I also had a network of 6 high diamond players, from all walks of life, and we would play and talk with each other a lot. I was the youngest, but they didn’t seem to notice and I would fit in fine. In fact, they were shocked at how young I am and something that stuck with me was ‘I wouldn’t know you are so young until you invited your real life friends to the skype call.’
The last step between me and masters, was to flesh out my own unique build orders. I still distinctly remember that time, the map pool, my builds, and the sheer number of games. I gave myself an ultimatum ‘I’m going on vacation for 2 months, and there will be no computers, you’re getting masters.’ And for 4 days, I grinded 30 games a day and got masters.
Throughout this period, I think I have identified three major things that defined who I was growing into.
First, I must figure out shit on my own, and it is good that I didn’t know of a pro scene to copy. My understanding of my units, and how they relate to the opponent was a completely personal experience, and without a doubt, anyone doing the same thing would end up with their own perspective of the game, and it would certainly be different than mine.
Second, I learned how to make more complicated compositions, and efficient ways to get towards them. This again, was me figuring out the game for myself, and is a completely unique experience to anyone who would do the same,
Third, I began to think about the game, outside of the game. This just went from understanding individual units, and mixing them together, to understanding a composition’s properties, not the pieces of the composition, and how to effectively use it as a whole.
Then come the smaller, yet significantly bigger (oh the oxymoron!) learning experiences within masters.
The one I always think of, and none other seem to come, is TvZ.
This is where I discovered how complicated gameplans were, and especially how extremely difficult it was to execute them.
I was doing the empire.Kas 2 base, 3 tank, ~30 marine timing at 9 minutes.
To execute this strategy, you open with reactor hellion expand, 2 hellions, and basically get to 3 rax, a techlab factory, and two gas. I still remember the build order, but no longer think it is very good.
There were so many small moments, in this rather big moment of a build order:
I learned to watch my minimap, because you only have two hellions. I learned early game multitasking, because you only have two hellions. I learned how good hellions were... Such a little things, with so much behind it.
My APM went from 20 to 60-80 in these times.
I went from a crude understanding of positioning, and how to tank push in TvZ, to fucking knowing how to tank push.
I took a crude understanding of build orders, and began to refine it to such a point that is is actually optimal (for the desired outcome.) I also began to identify stages of the games, styles of zerg and how to deal with them, how to expand, how to make static defences with depots and bunkers, so many things....
I learned defence timings above all. With Terran, attack timings are bloody simple to understand. An upgrade finishes, you attack. However, now I knew when allins can come, when 2 base baneling busts or roach allins can come, when runbys begin to happen, what time mutas can be at my base, when his third goes up and how it relates to all of this.
This period was defined by conversation with my zerg practice partner, which I hope I will never forget for as long as I play this game. (FGMagic, I still appreciate you and Eulogy being the only ones to be kind to me.) Having analysis come from two people, and talking to each other made for many realizations about my play and I learned a lot.
Now that team must have decided as a whole to shake off the parasites who are hanging out in their channel, so I went to the prodigy gaming channel.
Here I learned some strictly better TvT builds with REQRookie, and I grew to understand TvP with Orchid. Rookie was a high master, but Orchid was a grandmaster korean, and she, in one fell swoop, gave me enough understanding of TvP to take it from 14% winrate, to my current highest winrate of ~70%. All the principles learned there, I still keep and use in my TvPs.
After, I have only had one practice partner, as teams abandoned me as even a hopeful recruit, in ronaldrage. With him, I was just working on mechanics.
Eventually, after lots of lonely laddering, which was essentially wasted time in terms of practice, I saw a reddit post of Team exioN recruiting. I gave it a shot, and I think I blew them away with my TvZ, but was caught way off against a very defensive gateway/templar Protoss, and gave a pretty good showing of my TvT.
I was tentatively accepted to the team.
However, the issue of lonely practice continued. This time I got more ideas to try out on the ladder, but it is still very similar to what I was doing before.
I got to participate in clanwars, which I think are great team bonding activities. But not learning/improving experiences. Because everyone is in vent critiquing you while you play, but you’re in the muted channel so that you are blindly playing.
I sort of derailed my own train of thought. I went from recounting my learning experiences earlier on, to circle jerking myself to memories.
There are two things, now that they are written, that I can say are two very important things for my own improvement. Theory outside of the game, and conversation with others.
So for my own improvements sake. I am going to outline 3 goals:
Spend some time thinking about your play, and what you can do better.
Spend some time with practice partners talking.
Lastly, and the most difficult as I have never done it before: be mindful DURING the games. Maintain a distinct awareness of all of the metagame talk (outside of the game talk)
One thing at a time though, I will probably figure out mindfulness eventually. I know it is a weakness because I can not even make myself spam hotkeys to artificially increase my APM past the build order stage.
I was going to try to relate all of this to my learning experiences in music, but at this point I just no longer feel like it. The important things is that in music, learning is similar to starcraft, and that I tend to learn in bursts rather than a gradual experience.
Fourth thing to work on, improve my writing, as I always feel as though what I write doesn't make sense to other humans.
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| | Thaniri.336 NA, Thaniri.207 TW, SteamID boblepoh. |
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| Frostfire United States. July 13 2012 06:21. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
If you want a zerg partner, ChoiSoo.932
I'm diamond though, my Terran winrate is about 85%, and I take out master terrans, I just lose almost every ZvP (about 35% winrate) and seeing as there are no terrans in diamond (out of 13 games today, I've played 0 terrans) I am stuck TT
Still, the offer is there. |
| | "In solitude, we are least alone" |
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| a_flayer Netherlands. July 13 2012 09:28. Posts 480 | Profile # |
| Lol, I think the above is true for all zerg players atm. Last edit: 2012-07-13 09:29:15 |
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| Chef July 13 2012 10:29. Posts 9766 | Profile Blog # |
You want to spend less time playing SC2 so you are going to make a big elaborate plan about how to spend time playing SC2 and getting better at it? I don't understand.
Figure out what you wanna do after high school asap, then figure out what you need to do to get there. Then fit games in after that. You will end up regretting it if you have to waste a lot of time after you graduate getting together what you should have done the months prior... Story of a lot of kids who don't wanna think about their future. |
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| 9-BiT United States. July 13 2012 12:07. Posts 425 | Profile Blog # |
| I feel like I am a person that always reads and never does. I was following the pro scene before I started playing, and started with the sole intent if becoming a pro player, which I think from the start destroyed me. I always focus on too many things at once, and I just try and throw everything at it and get burned out. I don't know what to do at this point. |
| | [QUOTE][B]On September 24 2012 01:14 AcesAnoka wrote:[/B] based fucking smuGG[/QUOTE] |
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| HeeroFX United States. July 13 2012 12:13. Posts 1953 | Profile Blog # |
| The thing about SC 2 is I think people get so caught up in improvement that they forget to have fun. I find that if I focus on having more fun in the game versus stressing over it I actually improve and win more. The only way to really get better is to just play. And you will play more if you have fun. |
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| Thaniri Canada. July 13 2012 12:22. Posts 559 | Profile Blog # |
@Chef
If I get low grades, I'm going to BCIT. If I get good grades, I'll go to UBC or Waterloo.
I'm spending less time, more efficiently. 8 hours a day is a great number, but factor in all the idle time, and it ends up being basically nothing at all. If I use less time more efficiently, not only do I stop wasting time, but I actually get proper practice in. |
| | Thaniri.336 NA, Thaniri.207 TW, SteamID boblepoh. |
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| Lokk Canada. July 13 2012 12:41. Posts 592 | Profile Blog # |
| I have one more year to GL |
| | @Lokk_2/Go Woori 우리/Rainbow/Apink/NaDa/MVP/SICA~~~~~~~ |
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| speakerbox Canada. July 13 2012 12:49. Posts 187 | Profile Blog # |
| I think youre overthinking things bud |
| | never to see any other way |
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| RenSC2 United States. July 13 2012 14:13. Posts 267 | Profile Blog # |
"Lastly, and the most difficult as I have never done it before: be mindful DURING the games. Maintain a distinct awareness of all of the metagame talk (outside of the game talk) "
This is a very slippery slope that you're on. Most of the out of game talk is done out of game because it needs to be. Unless you're with a practice partner and you guys pause in the middle of the game, you need to keep the deep thoughts outside the game. There is simply no time in a skilled player's mind to do those things.
There is an exception, and I know that Day9 says something along these lines a lot. The exception is to take exactly ONE thing and focus on that one thing that you want to improve on. For you, it seems like your multitask might still be a little on the weaker side. One thing you should practice everytime you get to 2-base or more is to do a multipronged drop. Practicing multi-pronged drops over and over again should quickly improve your multitask abilities. So get into games and just play them out as well as you can in-the-moment, but always keep in mind that as soon as you hit two bases, you're going to start dropping two places at once until it becomes very natural to you. Once it does, then look for what your next biggest thing is that's costing you losses and make that your one thing to work on.
Just a recommendation from someone who isn't as good as you at SC2. Take it for what you will.
edit: Oh, and if you take my idea, keep me updated on how your progress is going... either in this thread or through PMs.Last edit: 2012-07-13 14:14:04 |
| | Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play. |
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| Zombo Joe Canada. July 13 2012 16:04. Posts 850 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 12:22 Thaniri wrote:
@Chef
If I get low grades, I'm going to BCIT. If I get good grades, I'll go to UBC or Waterloo.
I'm spending less time, more efficiently. 8 hours a day is a great number, but factor in all the idle time, and it ends up being basically nothing at all. If I use less time more efficiently, not only do I stop wasting time, but I actually get proper practice in.
UBC has a great starcraft scene, its so well known that random people who don't give a fuck about starcraft know about it. |
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| Canas Sweden. July 13 2012 20:00. Posts 1463 | Profile Blog # |
I'm sorry but this isn't going to work, progamers aren't some magical kind of people who are inherently good at this game or because of some secret training method. They're normal persons, just like anyone else, and they're good because they play the game A LOT.
That's all there's to it. If you want to get better at this game, play more than you are now, it's that simple. Stop trying to look for easy exits, because there are none. |
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| Frostfire United States. July 13 2012 21:40. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
On July 13 2012 20:00 Canas wrote:
I'm sorry but this isn't going to work, progamers aren't some magical kind of people who are inherently good at this game or because of some secret training method. They're normal persons, just like anyone else, and they're good because they play the game A LOT.
That's all there's to it. If you want to get better at this game, play more than you are now, it's that simple. Stop trying to look for easy exits, because there are none.
Seconded. You need to find practice partners that are willing to play you, point out your mistakes, and then help you solve them through games with said partner. Over and over and over until you beat it.
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| | "In solitude, we are least alone" |
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| Canas Sweden. July 14 2012 01:35. Posts 1463 | Profile Blog # |
| Or just ladder until you've got a steady 60%+ win in GM, at which point you start playing on korea instead. Why would you need practice partners. |
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| Frostfire United States. July 14 2012 02:12. Posts 408 | Profile Blog # |
On July 14 2012 01:35 Canas wrote:
Or just ladder until you've got a steady 60%+ win in GM, at which point you start playing on korea instead. Why would you need practice partners.
Say you need help with PvP, against 3 into 4gate blink. Would you spend a small amount of time with another person, doing that to you repeatedly until you beat it, and could scout it, or would you rather go on ladder, and go against it every once in a blue moon, and not get enough practice from it to scout/beat it?
It just seems easier to find a specific build you're having trouble with every once in a while, get a partner, and then perfect the way to defend it than to go on ladder and run into it every once in a while and be fucked |
| | "In solitude, we are least alone" |
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| Thaniri Canada. July 14 2012 05:01. Posts 559 | Profile Blog # |
On July 13 2012 20:00 Canas wrote:
I'm sorry but this isn't going to work, progamers aren't some magical kind of people who are inherently good at this game or because of some secret training method. They're normal persons, just like anyone else, and they're good because they play the game A LOT.
That's all there's to it. If you want to get better at this game, play more than you are now, it's that simple. Stop trying to look for easy exits, because there are none.
[sarcasm]Thanks for reading man, I totally am searching for the mystical practice regime rather than just playing with practice partners and having discussions, then putting the discussions to use.[/sarcasm] |
| | Thaniri.336 NA, Thaniri.207 TW, SteamID boblepoh. |
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| Canas Sweden. July 14 2012 05:46. Posts 1463 | Profile Blog # |
On July 14 2012 02:12 Frostfire wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:35 Canas wrote:
Or just ladder until you've got a steady 60%+ win in GM, at which point you start playing on korea instead. Why would you need practice partners.
Say you need help with PvP, against 3 into 4gate blink. Would you spend a small amount of time with another person, doing that to you repeatedly until you beat it, and could scout it, or would you rather go on ladder, and go against it every once in a blue moon, and not get enough practice from it to scout/beat it? It just seems easier to find a specific build you're having trouble with every once in a while, get a partner, and then perfect the way to defend it than to go on ladder and run into it every once in a while and be fucked
Since I play zerg and don't have any experience with PvT, PvP or TvT, it may be different in these matchups, but really, 99% of the time if I lose, it's because I fucked up somewhere and it's easy to recognize what caused the game to be lost. Sometimes a practice partner is needed though, but it's certainly not a necessity.
On July 14 2012 05:01 Thaniri wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 20:00 Canas wrote:
I'm sorry but this isn't going to work, progamers aren't some magical kind of people who are inherently good at this game or because of some secret training method. They're normal persons, just like anyone else, and they're good because they play the game A LOT.
That's all there's to it. If you want to get better at this game, play more than you are now, it's that simple. Stop trying to look for easy exits, because there are none.
[sarcasm]Thanks for reading man, I totally am searching for the mystical practice regime rather than just playing with practice partners and having discussions, then putting the discussions to use.[/sarcasm]
I'm sorry if it sounded harsh/rude, wasn't meant that way, it was more that, by saying this:
As a result of this understanding, I want to also stop wasting time on SC2. My 8 hours on the computer, is probably the equivalent of 2-3 hours of any pro gamer. But rather than making myself get 8 hours of progamer time, I want to simply get 2-3 hours of progamer time and get better grades in school. I finished the 2011/2012 school year with an 82% average, and am redoing precalc 11 and physics 11 this summer to even hope to get to a university.
It sounds like you want to play less and improve more by getting more "progamer time", while your time would probably be better spent just laddering. I'm trying to be helpful, nothing else, and I really do just think that grinding as many games a day as possible is the best way to improve, while speaking and playing with practice partners is really only better than ladder if you're REALLY struggling with something so badly that you've lost the last 10 games you played vs something, and still don't know why you lost despite watching the replays. |
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