Dunning–Kruger at Work?

I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect

Last edit: 2012-08-21 11:57:06

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Bombadil819 United States. August 21 2012 11:50. Posts 44

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Seems plausible. Bronzie since season 1.

13_Doomblaze_37 United States. August 21 2012 13:17. Posts 699

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i mean as a plat player, you need to fundamentally improve your game. Im low/mid masters and I know i need fundamentally improve my game, since I can improve in every aspect of the game. What i do to improve is mass games, see what im having trouble with, then open up 2-3 streams and watch pros for a while to figure out what they do. If my build isnt working at all, I learn a new one, or I learn a good way to counter a certain strat

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Salivanth Australia. August 21 2012 15:08. Posts 815

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I think the best way to try and improve one's game is not to think "Okay, if I make these two improvements, I'll hit Diamond." Fuck Diamond. You want to hit Masters. What are the 2-3 largest improvements on your game you need to make to hit Masters? This is effective for several reasons:

1) People underestimate the work involved to achieve the next rank. This is partly due to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and partly due to the planning fallacy. People think they're closer than they are and that it'll be faster than it will be. If you consistently put in the effort to reach what you think is Diamond level, you will fall short. Aim higher and you might get there.

2) Masters is more effective as a goal for overall improving your game. What's going to improve your game more?

A) "Okay, I want to hit Masters. Wow, my macro is NOWHERE NEAR Masters level. I have to work on that! I have to hit 70 supply by 8 minutes in ZvP EVERY SINGLE GAME." (That my opponent FFE's in)

B) "Okay, I want to hit Diamond. If I make several small improvements, that should be enough."

You are not aiming to inch into Diamond. You are aiming to improve your game as much as possible. Diamond league will arise as a consequence. If all you care about is hitting Diamond league, if that's what you really want, start all-ining. You'll get there way faster.

It's common sense. To reach Diamond, you need X improvement. The best way to improve your skill by X is to take on the activities that will improve your skill most effectively. But to do that, you need to look at the bigger picture. You're trying to do the bare minimum to hit the next rank. I'll tell you what the bare minimum to hit Diamond is. Start cheesing. But you don't really want that, do you? You want to improve as much as possible, and Diamond league is a reflection of that improvement, a symbol of how far you've come.

So forget Diamond. What parts of your play need the most improvement if you're intending to become a Masters player?

Last edit: 2012-08-21 15:19:44

<@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)

Reithan United States. August 21 2012 16:11. Posts 348

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It wasn't so much that I was looking to hit Diamond and stop, I was initially just trying to break my main goal (Masters) into smaller goals.

Such as:

1) Hit top 8 Plat
2) Hit Diamond
3) Hit top 50 Diamond
etc

But I need to reassess this. I think, like you've suggested, performance-related goals would be better. My main perofrmance issues is supply-blocking and getting thrown off by odd builds and early aggression. I can actually hit the same timings as Stephano with the 11-minute max build if I don't get messed with...but that's worthless. I can't play in a vacuum. I need to create some resilience in my play.

Also, HORRIBLE multitasking and lackluster micro.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan

-Kaiser- Canada. August 21 2012 17:04. Posts 470

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On August 21 2012 11:27 Reithan wrote:
I've been working on up-keeping my knowledge of the meta and trying to figure out what happened to SC2 when I took a 2 week break when a thought hit me:

I've been platinum for a long time now. 5 seasons to be exact. Maybe the way I'm going about trying to improve isn't working? (You think?)

So, I thought - why? Maybe the problem is, the thought process I usually have is, "I'm almost to Diamond, I just need to ____ and I'll make it this season." Fill in the blank with 'learn the meta', 'inject better', 'perfect this build', 'work on my micro', 'mass game to improve my knowledge'...anything.

The problem is, I think my premise may be flawed. Maybe I'm NOT almost Diamond. Maybe it's not just 1-2 fiddly little improvements that I need to make that are holding me back. Maybe I need to fundamentally improve my game?

So, now I'm trying to figure out the best way to figure out the best way to improve my game (recursive sentence is go!).

Dunning-Kruger Effect

If you injected better and perfected a build, you would be master. Do that.

EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.

Last edit: 2012-08-21 17:05:44

"Perhaps love is the process of my gently leading you back to yourself."

UltimateHurl Ireland. August 21 2012 17:21. Posts 554

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While this "I'll be at Diamond if I just get better at X" can sometimes be mentality can sometimes be right the most common advice I see is just play more. There are people who boast about just using mass blink stalker builds or 4-gating all the way to diamond, with the only improvement is a general 'I'll not make that mistake next time".

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Reithan United States. August 23 2012 10:29. Posts 348

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On August 21 2012 17:04 -Kaiser- wrote:EDIT: Actually, add me. Kaiser.581. We'll do a short sweat session and I'll tell you exactly what you have to do.

Done and done. Now just to catch you online...I'm PST - you?

http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/Xanthus730 ***** http://www.twitch.tv/reithan

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