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| Funnytoss Taiwan. September 21 2012 13:06. Posts 1346 | Profile Blog # |
A lot of my blog posts touch upon the experience of living in different cultures and countries. I will admit to finding this type of topic particularly fascinating, largely because of the profound influence it has had on the way I process information and observe life. As I've mentioned before in several places, it is easy to take life for granted - the way your society does things, the way people think of and use money, how aggressively the drivers are, what role religion plays, what topics are "safe" and what are "taboo" - and you overlook how they can be quite specific to your own country and culture, rather than universal. People say I have a talent for extrapolating a lot from nothing, and I like to take that as a compliment. Last time it was ramen, this time it shall be about things most people probably don't think about.
What I enjoy the most about visiting new countries (or living in them for extended periods of time) is just taking in the culture, trying to learn more about the place from where I originally came from by contrasting it with a place that in most cases, functions perfectly happily doing things in a totally different manner. There are many observations I make about the United States that I would have easily overlooked if I'd never lived outside of the country for several years, and many about Taiwan and Japan that are more obvious due to having lived in America for so long. It's harder to pick up on things when you're never really taught them outright, and you just pick them up through experience. It's one of the things that makes it obvious how long you've lived in a country, regardless of what your accent may sound like. When I lived in Japan for 6 months during a study abroad program, I was often complimented on my Japanese accent, but somehow residents could always pick me out for a foreigner fairly easily after hanging out for a little bit.
So on that topic, here's a list of unspoken social norms I've found interesting so far. They are, in a sense, informal. That is to say, they aren't officially enforced and aren't really "policy", yet you find a high level of consistent agreement on expectations and conformity to them. Some are fairly identifiable, others not. Obviously, what I observe has been tinted by my own experience and position in life, and I readily acknowledge that my understanding of say, Christmas, may be quite different from that of someone growing up in a non-Christian household, or someone growing up in the urban projects. Part of what I'd love to find out is how people do things *differently*, so if your understanding of something differs, that's exactly what I want to hear.
1. Christmas/Valentine's Day
This holds more for the United States than in Taiwan, where Christmas holds quite a different meaning. In the United States, despite the overall decreasing level of religiosity over the past few decades, Christmas still has a fairly religious taste to it, or at least customs firmly rooted in religious tradition, even if the meaning has changed somewhat. There's an overall sense of family and festivity - at the very least, there's the hype of "good tidings we bring, to you and your kin". In Taiwan, it's slightly different. Obviously, Taiwanese Christians celebrate it similarly to many American Christians, but there are some pretty significant affects due to it being... well, in Taiwan and all. First of all, it's not an official holiday. The primary extended holiday for workers is the Lunar New Year/Chinese New Year, sometime between January and February. That is also when most schools go on break between semesters. In the States, due to a quasi integration of church and state, official holidays pretty much cater to Christians. As such, I remember whenever I returned to Taiwan for winter break (while in college), all of my Taiwanese friends were still in school. And they'd ask me why I never visited for Lunar New Year, and my obvious response was, "We're in school in the States at that time."
Some Christmas norms I've noticed are fairly obvious - like the "Wrapping Rule", which pretty much states that gifts should be wrapped in Christmas-themed wrapping paper, or alternatively marked with some sort of decoration or bow if their shape makes it difficult to wrap. Other norms and conventions aren't so intuitive, and you can go for many years before someone eventually points it out. For example, there is somewhat of a "Scaling Rule", which for most people, determines purchases of gifts depending on relationship with the recipient. In general, your significant other receives the most valuable gift; then your kids (and, for the most part, they should get gifts of equal value. The definition of "value" may vary between households - for some, it is the monetary cost of the gift, and for others, how much the child treasures the gift.); then your relatives, then coworkers, etc. The phrase, "It's the thought that counts" is what we say, but the gifts we give oftentimes to carry some form of social message that tells the recipient how much we care. Some may say that this is a bad thing, that we shouldn't conform to such antiquated ideas. To a certain extent, I can agree with that. Yet at the same time, I would also feel something's off if someone buys a gift for a coworker that is (at the very least, perceived to be) much more valuable than a gift given to his/her significant other. Obviously, in an increasingly diverse and mobile society, I expect more and more people to break these conventions unintentionally, perhaps causing unintended offense. This may be a good or bad thing, depending on where you're coming from.
In Taiwan, this is slightly different. For most people, Christmas isn't really a religious holiday. Rather, it's quite similar to how it's celebrated in Japan - as the second-most significant *romantic* holiday of the year, after Valentine's Day.
And now here's where I go on my long tangent about Valentine's Day in Japan (before returning to discussion about Taiwan), because I find some Japanese customs fascinating. (you may note that I often overuse the word "fascinating") Many Western holidays are celebrated in Japan, but it's noteworthy that many of the changes to these traditions are created by commercial organizations. For example, during the week leading up to Valentine's Day, chocolate companies can allegedly make HALF of their annual sales. How does this artificial social norm they created sell so much chocolate, and make so much money?
First of all, I'm not sure if the person(s) importing Valentine's Day screwed something up and something was missed in translation, but basically in Japan, Valentine's Day is an opportunity for the *girls* to show their love to *guys*. Thankfully, Japan has found a way to compensate for that, and sell even more chocolate in the meantime. Valentine's Day can get somewhat complicated. First of all, it's not nice to make people feel left out, especially your coworkers or fellow students. I distinctly recall my 4th grade teacher at Stanley Clark School, Mr. Cox, say that if we didn't give someone a Valentine's Card or candy, then we shouldn't give him one either. Solidarity! The end result was that everyone gave everybody else little gifts, and that was pretty cool. On a side note, Mr. Cox lived in Sierra Leone for several years, played the drums, and taught my class how to raise mealworms and play Mancala. There's a reason why I've always liked school.
Anyway, because no one wants to feel left out, in Japan there are several different types of chocolates girls give out on February 14th: "Giri-Chocolate" - meaning "obligatory chocolate". As clear from the name, these are those you are obligated to give to people, who you don't actually love. Your manager, coworkers, friend-zoned male friends, etc. These chocolates are very cheap, so it's easier to tell them apart from other more optional chocolates that actually mean something. The REAL chocolate is what they call, "Honmei-Chocolate" - meaning "favorite chocolate". This is the kind you give to the one you love, and can be really expensive if bought in a shop, but ideally homemade. And because it has to be obvious that these are Honmei and not Giri, these *have* to be way more expensive if you buy them. Hooray chocolate companies! Last of all you have "Tomo-Chocolate" - meaning "friend chocolate", which is what girls give to female friends.
To make things fair (and give chocolate companies another opportunity to rake in the cash), there's "White Day", March 14th - a chance for all the guys who got gifts on Valentine's Day to return the favor. Both holidays are fairly similar in that they aren't necessarily romantic, but it can be if you want it to be. To make it absolutely obvious how wonderfully commercially artificial this holiday is, know that it was created by Japan's National Confectionary Association in 1978 to boost sales. Apparently it started with marshmallows, but for some reason marshmallows aren't as popular in Japan as they are in America, so the preferred candy is chocolate as well, but the name remains. Also, the convention is that the guy actually has to give back more than he received, so a girl can give a homemade chocolate and the guy has to upstage her with something nicer. Yes, there is much money to be made here.
And of course, South Korea has the infamous "Black Day" where single guys who received nothing on Valentine's Day get to share their tears by eating some delicious (dark-colored) jajangmyeon.
And... it turns out my tangent on Valentine's Day ended up being longer than the section on Christmas. This happens very rarely, I assure you. Anyway, going back to Christmas in Taiwan - as it's primarily seen as a romantic holiday, norms surrounding gifts are different than in the States. In a sense, it's much more similar to the Japanese Valentine's Day than the American Christmas, in that you primarily buy a gift for your romantic partner, and perhaps some somewhat obligatory little items for friends and family. Giving something rather extravagant for Christmas to someone of the opposite gender thus can imply something more than it would otherwise in other cultures.
To make up for the relative lack of Christmas content, here's another random observation about Christmas in Japan: for some reason, people eat chicken (preferably, KFC), and cake. Don't ask me why, but I'm fairly certain there's some commercial reason for all this.
2. Restroom Etiquette
From what I've seen (both in Taiwan and the States), many girls chat with each other in the restroom, and go to the restroom in groups. Guys in America, on the other hand, are massively conformist. The rule is, no one speaks in the restroom (to each other - cell phones are somewhat tolerated). Also, whenever possible, you do not stand right next to another guy at the urinal if other spots are open. Thus, supposing in our hypothetical restroom we have 5 urinals, named 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. If you enter the bathroom and someone is using 3, then you may choose 1 and 5. If someone is using 1, then 3 and 5 are the best choices. Why not 4? Well, because that would reduce the potential number of open urinals for other guys coming after you. So for example, if you enter the restroom and see these 5 urinals, it's incredibly rude to use 2 or 4, because that reduces the number of socially permissible urinal spots from the potential two to one. If you choose 2, then only 4 is available, and if you choose 4, then only 2 is available. Now if you had chosen 1, then the guys after you could choose 3 and 5. If you chose 3, then 1 and 5 are free. Get the idea?
Now of course, when it gets crowded then no one really cares and all restrictions are removed. Otherwise, most guys conform to this rule which probably has its roots in some subtle form of homophobia. I've noticed that this isn't nearly as strict in Taiwan - while it's still highly unlikely that someone will intentionally choose the urinal right next to yours, people don't calculate the most ideal use of potential urinal spots as often as people from the United States do. Make of that what you will.
On another random note, I've been conditioned to say some form of "bless you" after someone sneezes in America, but in Taiwan that is considered odd behavior. The unspoken rule is instead to just ignore it, as saying something would draw unnecessary attention.
As this went on a bit longer than I had originally anticipated, I'll have to cut it a bit shorter and leave some for next time. In summary, I suppose my point is that our social interactions are highly regulated by unspoken/informal conventions, that we, throughout our lives, learn and follow without questioning or perhaps even noticing.
So, dear readers, what unspoken social norms have you observed in your home countries or cultures?Last edit: 2012-09-21 13:14:48
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| | AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup |
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| Suc Australia. September 21 2012 13:23. Posts 1567 | Profile Blog # |
Haha, KFC and cake in Japan? That sounds so silly haha. I loved your bit on the restroom etiquette which is what I've noticed before (and I'm pretty sure there's a whole thread devoted to it on TL somewhere, involving more criteria like which urinal leaves you most vulnerable to sudden attack or which gives you the most peripheral vision, etc). I too find it so fascinating that there is something so complex beneath such a mundane activity.
I can't think of any particularly Australian ones at the moment, but I'll come back if I do. |
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| Gloomzy Australia. September 21 2012 13:28. Posts 36 | Profile # |
Great post, enjoyable read.
Generally in Australia, although we have Christian-based holidays, they are celebrated as a family and not about religion (at least in my experience). Lots of people will call themselves Christians etc. but not actually observe and real practices i.e. going to church and so on.
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| Efekkt United States. September 21 2012 14:09. Posts 59 | Profile # |
| People in the United States need to stop saying bless you after we sneeze. I don't say it when other people sneeze anymore and neither do my friends although we have never discussed it. |
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| b0mBerMan Japan. September 21 2012 14:18. Posts 267 | Profile # |
I remember reading an article somewhere talking about the same things...
Urinal thing is kinda automatic for guys |
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| URfavHO United States. September 21 2012 14:39. Posts 311 | Profile Blog # |
| Hey Funnytoss, I am currently dating a Taiwanese lady who has been in America for about 3 years. I would be mighty grateful if you enlighten me on some of the differences in they way relationships might differ in Taiwanese culture. |
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| SagaZ France. September 21 2012 14:42. Posts 730 | Profile Blog # |
| yo, i make sure to go pee right next to a maximum of persons in public restrooms, the akward is palpable, but no1 says anything (rule 1) |
| | Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff. |
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| Funnytoss Taiwan. September 21 2012 14:42. Posts 1346 | Profile Blog # |
On September 21 2012 14:39 URfavHO wrote:
Hey Funnytoss, I am currently dating a Taiwanese lady who has been in America for about 3 years. I would be mighty grateful if you enlighten me on some of the differences in they way relationships might differ in Taiwanese culture.
I'll take this to PM unless you want to do otherwise. There are definitely significant differences in relationships, particularly when it comes to extended family, but if you plan on (perhaps marrying) and living in the States, that's a bit different than say, if you were living in Taiwan. The expectations around that would also differ, in large part due to the greater environment around you. When it comes to differences in habits to due to culture, I think it's safe to say that it's not something set in stone, and that "when in Rome..." is a fairly accurate determinant of people's behavior. |
| | AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup |
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| Iplaythings Denmark. September 21 2012 14:45. Posts 7206 | Profile Blog # |
Not talking in the restroom..
Nah, I've never NOT talked in the restroom lol (as long as there's someone I wanted to talk to, that is), it's not unusual for me and 2 of my friends to go to the schools restroom and talk as if we were outside. |
| | In the woods, there lurks.. |
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 Sinensis United States. September 21 2012 15:16. Posts 2503 | Profile Blog # |
On September 21 2012 14:42 SagaZ wrote:
yo, i make sure to go pee right next to a maximum of persons in public restrooms, the akward is palpable, but no1 says anything (rule 1)
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
People like you are why I don't use urinals unless there are walls between them. I can not urinate if there is another person next to me... so I just have to stand there and wait for the person to leave. Waiting for someone to finish peeing so that you can pee must be what hell is like. Last edit: 2012-09-21 15:17:32 |
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| Release United States. September 21 2012 15:24. Posts 3982 | Profile Blog # |
I'm in America and what you describe is not an unspoken social norm. It is the result of an extremely homophobic culture in which seeing another guy's weiner makes you gay, while at the same time, showering with another dude in the locker room makes you straight.
Having been raised elsewhere, I can attest to the fact that we saw each others' weiners all the time but at the end of the day, we wanted the women. And we always went to the urinal closest to the door. |
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| Vaelone Finland. September 21 2012 15:41. Posts 1938 | Profile # |
On September 21 2012 14:45 Iplaythings wrote:
Not talking in the restroom..
Nah, I've never NOT talked in the restroom lol (as long as there's someone I wanted to talk to, that is), it's not unusual for me and 2 of my friends to go to the schools restroom and talk as if we were outside.
During my army time I was having a shit in this weird ass toilet that had no doors and the actual toilet was maybe a meter higher than the hallway area of the restroom. Anyway I'm having a shit sitting on my toilet throne and one of my pals comes to chat with me to like right in front of me. I can't remember what he was on about but I can not have a shit in a situation like that, so fucking awkward for me but he was acting like it was the most natural thing to him. |
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| Daumen Germany. September 21 2012 16:22. Posts 614 | Profile # |
If you bump glasses in Germany you have to look each other in the Eye(or else you will have bad sex for the next 7 years of your live).
Edit: bump glasses as in saying "cheer" and stuff while drinking ;DLast edit: 2012-09-21 16:22:45 |
| | President of the ReaL Fan Club |
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| archonOOid September 21 2012 18:47. Posts 1882 | Profile Blog # |
| Isn't the second point caused by fear of splash damage and comparable studies it's at least what I think after watching Larry David. The Christmas rules is quite reasonable as the wrapping rule matches the occasion and the scaling rule is universal as it applies birthdays. The scaling rule is more apparent during Christmas as the gifts are handed over in a small space of time while birthdays are spread across an entire year. |
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| BrTarolg United Kingdom. September 21 2012 19:01. Posts 2498 | Profile Blog # |
I actually kind of wish there was japanese valentines over here in the UK, it's kind of cute lol
Then again, i watch too much anime. |
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| Zafrumi Switzerland. September 21 2012 23:01. Posts 1259 | Profile # | |
| | "Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe |
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| iPlaY.NettleS Australia. September 21 2012 23:12. Posts 1495 | Profile Blog # |
On September 21 2012 15:24 Release wrote:
I'm in America and what you describe is not an unspoken social norm. It is the result of an extremely homophobic culture in which seeing another guy's weiner makes you gay, while at the same time, showering with another dude in the locker room makes you straight.
give me a break....
So if you went onto a bus and there was only one stranger sitting in the seats you would sit next to this person instead of sitting in an empty row?Last edit: 2012-09-21 23:13:09 |
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| ryerye Canada. September 22 2012 00:10. Posts 49 | Profile # |
| The reason I usually choose a far urinal from other guys is splash back, especially if I'm wearing flip flops or white shoes. |
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 NonY September 22 2012 00:56. Posts 6939 | Profile Blog # |
On September 21 2012 15:24 Release wrote:
I'm in America and what you describe is not an unspoken social norm. It is the result of an extremely homophobic culture in which seeing another guy's weiner makes you gay, while at the same time, showering with another dude in the locker room makes you straight.
Having been raised elsewhere, I can attest to the fact that we saw each others' weiners all the time but at the end of the day, we wanted the women. And we always went to the urinal closest to the door.
Wow I really hope you don't become a sociologist. It's definitely not your field. |
| | "Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ------ Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.' |
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| bonifaceviii Canada. September 22 2012 01:39. Posts 2853 | Profile # |
I recall it was in grade 4 when my grade school BFF and I happened to be relieving ourselves in urinals directly beside one another.
A bully from an upper grade (his identity lost to the mists of time, unfortunately) sneaked up behind my friend, grabbed his shoulders and wrenched his body 90 degrees while he was still peeing. This, of course, resulted in him peeing on my leg and much hilarity was to be had at our expense.
Moral of the story: you never know when the guy beside you is gonna go piss-haywire. |
| | Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018 |
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