A Social Context to SlayerS disbanding

Hey TL,

I wanted to make a post regarding the SlayerS disbanding situation. I feel like a lot of people in the sc community don’t really understand a lot of the social context with what Jessica is trying to say. The thread was very difficult to read, and a lot of the points in the interview include cultural differences that many in the sc community may look over. EDIT: THIS IS JUST AN INTERPRETATION OF WHAT HAPPENED AND THE PROBABLE MINDSET OF THE EVENTS THAT OCCURED

Disclaimers: I understand most of this is based upon what Jessica said. None of this can be taken for fact. However based on the current development of the the leader of the Korean gaming commission resigning, at least some of what she said can be regarding as true. All this post attempts to do is help users to better understand some of what Jessica and Boxer were feeling about this situation. Also, I’m not saying Jessica or Boxer is “right or wrong” I’m just making this post so people can understand better how they reacted to this situation.

Korea, like most of East Asia, has and is still today influenced by Confucianism. The main concept of Confucianism is how relationships between people should play out. The one half of the relationship with the more power (King, Husband, CEO, Older Brother, Employer) should be respectful and kind to the other half to the relationship (Peasants, wives, employees, younger brother, junior members of a business). Likewise, the weaker half should be thankful and polite to the more powerful class, because they have been taken care of. This is why in many companies, it’s almost always the most senior employees who run the company, while the lower workers do the menial tasks. It is also very uncommon for people to change companies; people are often totally devoted a company their entire lives. Quite a contrasting view in America, where the average worker has held their job for less than 5 years. Koreans at boarding schools are infamous for having the younger students do their laundry or their homework for them. They have a strict social code that influences all of their lives. Individualism, even the idea of oneself, is not as prevalent as it is in the West. Although in the West it may be common for young guns to rebel against older members on sports teams when the elders haze or tell them to carry bags/pick up balls; this would be highly offensive in Korean and Eastern culture. This is why when MMA said that his contract was a slave contract/ other things that may have or may not have been said around the house, it must have been extremely hurtful to Boxer and Jessica, who provided these player with a training place, income, basically out of their own pockets. 
It is also important for people to understand what type of environment Boxer grew up on as a progamer. He, as well as many other progamers at the time were not living in ideal living conditions, because there was no BW or progamers before them to lead the way. During the match fixing scandal, there was a Korean BW talk show discussing the scandal and the players involved. The people on the show were former progamers, now important members of the community. One of the commentators said something along the lines of “When we were growing up, we were a team. If you didn’t win that game tonight, that meant no dinner. If the players involved with this scandal could live one day, just one day like this, they wouldn’t have done such a selfish thing.” Do you see some of the confucian principles again showing up ? Boxer grew up in a very hard time of sc, where money was never really a motivation. He had no fucking idea that playing a video game could get him money and marry a film star. At the time, the only thing that matter was food, housing, and being able to play the game he loved.

Fast forward to 2010, when sc2 comes out. Boxer+Jessica form their own team, SlayerS, and provide players shelter, food, money, and a place to play scII. He has been a gentle ruler and provider to his lower class, and in return respects appreciation. In Boxer’s mind this is all that was need to be happy. Anything more is selfish. All the players, especially MMA, were like family to Boxer and Jessica. (Again the confucian relationship) They felt like all of these players were family to them, because they lived with them and had invested so much into them. This is why they felt so distraught when the issues began to pop up. For them, it was like family began to turn on you; having your wife who you love, suddenly want to divorce you. When MMA then comes to them and says that his contract is a “death contract”. For Boxer he is basically telling him that the past two years, when Boxer provided food, money, and a place to to practice+live, were slavery. Boxer’s closest son, closest player-coach relationship, suddenly wants nothing to do with him and wants to leave. Extremely disconcerting, for Boxer and he it is obvious why he made the switch to SKT1.

Again this post was only made so people could better understand the social context of the situation.

Last edit: 2012-10-23 10:01:32

itsjustatank United States. October 20 2012 00:53. Posts 3065

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I think it should also be understood by readers that this is your interpretation of what happened. Claiming to know all the answers and presenting them as truth on a philosophical level is dangerous.

<Rekrul> luck is just statistics taken personally

hypercube Hungary. October 20 2012 02:17. Posts 1916

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I've made this point before but this is probably the first time I mean it 100%: Western culture is universalist. Many of us expect relationships to be based on equility even in cultures where this is not the norm. Even knowing that the older student/CEO/parent acts well within the cultural norms their actions feel wrong.

Not condemning what looks very much like abuse of power would be going against my core cultural values.

+ Show Spoiler +

"[...] you wanna have a future where you're expecting things to be better, not one where you're expecting things to be worse."

Supert0fu United States. October 20 2012 14:25. Posts 415

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On October 20 2012 00:53 itsjustatank wrote:
I think it should also be understood by readers that this is your interpretation of what happened. Claiming to know all the answers and presenting them as truth on a philosophical level is dangerous.

Yes, I'm sorry if this wasn't clear. This was kinda made after what Apollo said about Boxer quitting after MMA said he has a slave contract; that "it doesn't make any sense." Hopefully this explains why Boxer COULD HAVE POTENTIALLY QUIT, because of what MMA said.

Waxangel United States. October 23 2012 10:42. Posts 18972

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actually, interpretting everything different from western society as 'confusianism' is a remnant of very outdated histories, and yet somehow it has been fed back to east asians until they have internalized it despite its poor factual founding.

That's not to say there could be some legitimate connection between the adoption of confusian ideals by the ruling class centuries ago, and whats happening with SlayerS now, but I could say the same thing about buddhist influence if I wanted, and be just as right.

What's the point? Nothing really, I just dislike the east asia = confucian generalization.

Last edit: 2012-10-23 10:44:46

Hey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?

Cor_Malek Poland. October 23 2012 16:32. Posts 61

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Confucianism or no Confucianism - I wonder how many pro-gamers have grand parents and even parents - who remember the SK bofore the Miracle on Han River. Generation to generation - their country has developed exponentially. Not respecting their elders would be defying the reality around them.

Seems more like practices often seen in a fast developing country that embraces isolationism as business philosophy - paired with high esteem for elders. Mercantilism for Europe, then era of isolationism for US, Japan's had it's fair share until they had US taking close notice after WWII etc.

After an economy stabilizes, those ideas only come back if there's a recession.

But SK economy has seen a pretty unprecedented growth from the pre Civil War state, and it's growth is still astounding. Is it optimal that they do business as they do? Probably not, but it's far from consensus. But it's the regular, and expected state of affairs.

Two little goblins out in the sun. Down came a griffin, and there was one.

targ Malaysia. October 23 2012 17:43. Posts 351

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Sometimes I think the Confucian analogy is pushing it a bit far. Confucianism teaches us to respect parents and elders yes, but not to never change jobs.

http://billyfoong.blogspot.com/ my other opinions are here

Supert0fu United States. October 23 2012 20:18. Posts 415

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On October 23 2012 17:43 targ wrote:
Sometimes I think the Confucian analogy is pushing it a bit far. Confucianism teaches us to respect parents and elders yes, but not to never change jobs.

People are a lot more loyal to their companies in Korea than they are in the west. There is more a stigma of switching jobs than there is in America. Also it's different than a job, because you don't eat, sleep, and live at your work. (most of the time

)

On October 23 2012 10:42 Waxangel wrote:
actually, interpretting everything different from western society as 'confusianism' is a remnant of very outdated histories, and yet somehow it has been fed back to east asians until they have internalized it despite its poor factual founding.
What's the point? Nothing really, I just dislike the east asia = confucian generalization.

I understand what you are saying; however, I think that a lot of people have studied Confucianism in school. By using this as an example, more people can grasp what I'm trying to say. It may be cliche, but this community has not been the best at understanding East Asian culture, and this will make it easier for them :D

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