You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
they lost their pashun!
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
You see thats the problem right there. Many Brood War fans (and again, this is a generalization and I'm sure you're a very nice BW if you're reading this), have an an almost-overbearing defensiveness about their game. Whereas a comment may be seen as innocuous (e.g "I wonder if they'll play Sc2 at Blizzcon"), some Brood War fans see this as some sort of intrusion into their storied history and take offense. I think we need to toll back the aggression just a little bit and realise that they're both just great video games that everyone can enjoy. No one is trying to kill each other, we're just discussing 4 people coming to Blizzcon. The swearing doesn't exactly help either.
As for the topic which the actual thread is about? I'm hella excited. Hopefully this will be a good way to show JD, Bisu, JangBi and Fantasy that e-sports is still thriving around the world and that they have plenty of fans who want to see them. And having thousands of people want your photo can never be a bad thing.
You make the false assumption that SC2 could never pass up BW.
Which I believe SC2 WILL pass BW, because SC2 has already passed BW Internationally.
Plus, Blizzard has 2 more chances to perfect the game.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
because BW is so "mapped out" that you really need to have the edge of understanding over your opponent in order to outplay him, whereas in SC2 its much easier to have the strategical edge over your opponent.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
No it's pretty objective when you've watched and have played both games a bit. The only question is is because sc2 is too young to be strategically as deep as BW, or is there an inherent flaw in the game itself (and here I have my opinion, and some arguments to support it but it's actually debatable...). But I do agree we do get to defensive for a lot of stuff, in this thread it's pretty obvious for instance. On the other hand, Ilove being called an elitist, because I just have to remember many reactions to LoL streams and tourny to taste the exact irony of the statement.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
You see thats the problem right there. Many Brood War fans (and again, this is a generalization and I'm sure you're a very nice BW if you're reading this), have an an almost-overbearing defensiveness about their game. Whereas a comment may be seen as innocuous (e.g "I wonder if they'll play Sc2 at Blizzcon"), some Brood War fans see this as some sort of intrusion into their storied history and take offense. I think we need to toll back the aggression just a little bit and realise that they're both just great video games that everyone can enjoy. No one is trying to kill each other, we're just discussing 4 people coming to Blizzcon. The swearing doesn't exactly help either.
As for the topic which the actual thread is about? I'm hella excited. Hopefully this will be a good way to show JD, Bisu, JangBi and Fantasy that e-sports is still thriving around the world and that they have plenty of fans who want to see them. And having thousands of people want your photo can never be a bad thing.
You see that's the problem right there. You look at this BW forum from an outside perspective and see some of us lashing out as us being overly defensive, not even understanding why it is so irritating to have a billion SC2 fans hover over every piece of BW related news that gets put in the community section, making dumb posts like "Gee, I sure hope the guy that plays the game that you like stops playing the game you like and starts playing my game" or "you guys are wrong, our game is actually good"
so yeah keep judging BW fans as overly defensive and maybe you'll figure it all out when next year a new game comes along and all players switch over because the developer invests a dumb amount of money and "the graphics totally look better!"
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
You see thats the problem right there. Many Brood War fans (and again, this is a generalization and I'm sure you're a very nice BW if you're reading this), have an an almost-overbearing defensiveness about their game. Whereas a comment may be seen as innocuous (e.g "I wonder if they'll play Sc2 at Blizzcon"), some Brood War fans see this as some sort of intrusion into their storied history and take offense. I think we need to toll back the aggression just a little bit and realise that they're both just great video games that everyone can enjoy. No one is trying to kill each other, we're just discussing 4 people coming to Blizzcon. The swearing doesn't exactly help either.
As for the topic which the actual thread is about? I'm hella excited. Hopefully this will be a good way to show JD, Bisu, JangBi and Fantasy that e-sports is still thriving around the world and that they have plenty of fans who want to see them. And having thousands of people want your photo can never be a bad thing.
I dont think thats overbearingly defensive at all .I think thats how most sc2 fans would react if LoL fans kept coming into the sc2 forum right after someone like MVP or nestea get a huge win or some shit, and kept telling them 'they should switch to LoL' as if its OBVIOUSLY the better game, and OBVIOUSLY at some point the switch will inevitably happen I dont think its overly defensive to get upset when people talk about a sport you like watching as if were already dead and doesnt rate keeping its most talented players
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
You see thats the problem right there. Many Brood War fans (and again, this is a generalization and I'm sure you're a very nice BW if you're reading this), have an an almost-overbearing defensiveness about their game. Whereas a comment may be seen as innocuous (e.g "I wonder if they'll play Sc2 at Blizzcon"), some Brood War fans see this as some sort of intrusion into their storied history and take offense. I think we need to toll back the aggression just a little bit and realise that they're both just great video games that everyone can enjoy. No one is trying to kill each other, we're just discussing 4 people coming to Blizzcon. The swearing doesn't exactly help either.
As for the topic which the actual thread is about? I'm hella excited. Hopefully this will be a good way to show JD, Bisu, JangBi and Fantasy that e-sports is still thriving around the world and that they have plenty of fans who want to see them. And having thousands of people want your photo can never be a bad thing.
I dont think thats overbearingly defensive at all .I think thats how most sc2 fans would react if LoL fans kept coming into the sc2 forum right after someone like MVP or nestea get a huge win or some shit, and kept telling them 'they should switch to LoL' as if its OBVIOUSLY the better game, and OBVIOUSLY at some point the switch will inevitably happen I dont think its overly defensive to get upset when people talk about a sport you like watching as if were already dead and doesnt rate keeping its most talented players
You know, from now on whenever i see an ignorant "Sc2 is the future, BW players and fans need to accept that and move on" post, I'm just going to replace all instances of BW with Sc2 and all instances of Sc2 with LoL.
"Sc2 elitists are really rude to LoL fans, just saying."
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
You see thats the problem right there. Many Brood War fans (and again, this is a generalization and I'm sure you're a very nice BW if you're reading this), have an an almost-overbearing defensiveness about their game. Whereas a comment may be seen as innocuous (e.g "I wonder if they'll play Sc2 at Blizzcon"), some Brood War fans see this as some sort of intrusion into their storied history and take offense. I think we need to toll back the aggression just a little bit and realise that they're both just great video games that everyone can enjoy. No one is trying to kill each other, we're just discussing 4 people coming to Blizzcon. The swearing doesn't exactly help either.
As for the topic which the actual thread is about? I'm hella excited. Hopefully this will be a good way to show JD, Bisu, JangBi and Fantasy that e-sports is still thriving around the world and that they have plenty of fans who want to see them. And having thousands of people want your photo can never be a bad thing.
I dont think thats overbearingly defensive at all .I think thats how most sc2 fans would react if LoL fans kept coming into the sc2 forum right after someone like MVP or nestea get a huge win or some shit, and kept telling them 'they should switch to LoL' as if its OBVIOUSLY the better game, and OBVIOUSLY at some point the switch will inevitably happen I dont think its overly defensive to get upset when people talk about a sport you like watching as if were already dead and doesnt rate keeping its most talented players
Seriously, I can't remember the last time a BW news piece wasn't just fucking arguing.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
Read this Ver's God of the Battlefield. Not being condescending here but that final edit will make you more informed. PS: you are warping the shit out of that analogy
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
You see thats the problem right there. Many Brood War fans (and again, this is a generalization and I'm sure you're a very nice BW if you're reading this), have an an almost-overbearing defensiveness about their game. Whereas a comment may be seen as innocuous (e.g "I wonder if they'll play Sc2 at Blizzcon"), some Brood War fans see this as some sort of intrusion into their storied history and take offense. I think we need to toll back the aggression just a little bit and realise that they're both just great video games that everyone can enjoy. No one is trying to kill each other, we're just discussing 4 people coming to Blizzcon. The swearing doesn't exactly help either.
As for the topic which the actual thread is about? I'm hella excited. Hopefully this will be a good way to show JD, Bisu, JangBi and Fantasy that e-sports is still thriving around the world and that they have plenty of fans who want to see them. And having thousands of people want your photo can never be a bad thing.
I dont think thats overbearingly defensive at all .I think thats how most sc2 fans would react if LoL fans kept coming into the sc2 forum right after someone like MVP or nestea get a huge win or some shit, and kept telling them 'they should switch to LoL' as if its OBVIOUSLY the better game, and OBVIOUSLY at some point the switch will inevitably happen I dont think its overly defensive to get upset when people talk about a sport you like watching as if were already dead and doesnt rate keeping its most talented players
Seriously, I can't remember the last time a BW news piece wasn't just fucking arguing.
Last time when BW news was in community section it had a huge board in front of it saying what people shouldn't say. XD
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
Read this Ver's God of the Battlefield. Not being condescending here but that final edit will make you more informed. PS: you are warping the shit out of that analogy
Your link goes to "The Elephant in the Room" which is probably not the best Final Edit to link under these circumstances.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
Read this Ver's God of the Battlefield. Not being condescending here but that final edit will make you more informed. PS: you are warping the shit out of that analogy
Your link goes to "The Elephant in the Room" which is probably not the best Final Edit to link under these circumstances.
Thanks i fixxed it. "Elephant in the room" insecurity is pretty much what fuels all the "bw is dead jaedong should switch" post.
Should be interesting to see how they fit into the schedule, if they will at all. For all we know, they could just be invited because they're famous players in the BW scene. No show matches, no attempts to get BW fans into SC2, just an invite to 4 members of the BW community who are well know and highly valued.
However, if there is any show match, it will be cool to watch
On October 19 2011 17:19 SolidMustard wrote: And then they're gonna switch and be terrible at SC2 ^^
hope you trolling there
Obviously . Because they won't switch, not because they would be good.
I'm quite convinced that required skills are just not the same. I lol hard at every sc2-hater explaining how BW requires a 10,000 more skills when it's just not true. You just don't have to use APM on the same thing, SC2 is more about game-sense and mind games and less about mechanics than BW.
So, yeah.. half-trolling actually ^^
Have you played the game and gotten to at least D+ in BW? If not your argument is invalid.
"You just don't have to use APM on the same thing." Fun fact: BW pros can do everything SC2 pros can (strategy, builds, mind games, decision making) and most importantly keep up in mechanics. And with the easier mechanics I still see pros still float 1k + minerals in SC2.
Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both require skill, just that BW requires more skill due to mechanics.
A lot of SC2 pros have bad mechanics, even in SC2. There are tons of games where Zergs get Overseers. I have not seen a single Zerg who got an overseer drop a changling to scout for hidden bases with every thirty seconds, even though it is literally free. They just let it hit max energy. I see a Code S Terran drop supply because they missed a depot literally one a week. Protoss all have terrible prism micro, even as it becomes more and more necessary.
The SC2 fan's argument is that SC2 takes less skill because the players still have less skill, so you don't need to play it perfectly. This is becoming less and less true with time, of course.
Both games are good, and both games are succeeding in different markets. BW remains thriving in Korea, and SC2 is doing fine in the west. There's no reason for the two scenes to hate each other. BW isn't going to die in favor of SC2, nor the reverse. Trolls are trolls are trolls, and should be ignored, reported, and banned.
yeah sc2 passed bw internationally basically because the game is dumbed down and easier to play. bw once had an international scene but everyone outside of korea jumped ship after sc2 was released because it was pointless to compete with the korean progamers who were vastly superior to everyone else in terms of skill. the existence of a large skill gap between the koreans and everyone else demonstrates bw's extremely high skill ceiling, unlike sc2's. why do you think all the mediocre bw players (nestea, mvp, mc, rest of world) switched to sc2 but the rest of the progamers have not? why is it that bw's popularity in korea still far surpasses sc2's? maybe its because they can look past the dated graphics of the game and see it's superior design underneath. bw's prominence for the last 10+ years shows that it is a near perfectly balanced game. sc2 may have passed bw on the popularity scale, but that does not necessarily translate to how good/perfect the game actually is.
the perfect game is all a matter of perspective, i feel like a lot of brood war fans just really hipster nerds and don't want to be mainstream. The game may be more balanced and requires more skills but the graphics, accessibility, and better casters are with SC2 in my opinion. You saying the game is perfect is just as arbitrary as it would be if I said the game of golf is perfect. It way be perfect to a perfect game to me but it's a matter of perspective with so many more factors than balance or "game design".
Also the top progamers from brood war haven't switched over because the money isn't there. If there was a million dollar a month tournament for sc2 i'm positive they wouldn't stay in brood war just because of the "superior design underneath". I get the nostalgia but i think you went a bit overboard.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
I'm sorry dude, but I cant explain it in words. And yeah, you can take that to mean 'I give up you win', but thats not really it. All i can say is, if you watched JUST as much BW as you have watched and still do watch sc2, I'm fairly certain you'd agree with me but i can see from your point of view how it seems like thats complete bullshit, and i'm just saying it because I like BW better. But hell, i dont play BW, i play sc2, what does that tell you? I hope someone that watches both games and understands them at a high level takes the time to put it into words
For all the BW verus SC2 stuff, has it not occurred to many of you that perhaps they won't be playing any matches of either game?
Looking at the Blizzcon schedule there really isn't much opportunity to add in 4-10 huge show matches. The C stage (the "RTS Stage") is completely packed with their SC2 tournament all day Friday and Saturday. Unless they're going to run something at the same time as the GSL Final (highly highly unlikely) there aren't going to be any matches of any kind.
I predict (and remember this) that these guys will be there just to sign autographs and do photos with fans. Probably also to promote their sponsor or whoever is paying them the most monies these days.
"Heh, if there were monthly million dollar tournies they would switch for sure!"
Nice insight there, buddy.
Now why don't you explain why there's no money in Korea's current SC2 scene.
Also disagree with his point on better casters. I find SC2 commentary unbearable as the groundless hype over inane things is so thick you can smell it. Though it might not be the casters fault... just listen to tastosis casting BW and you can feel their genuine excitement over gameplay rather than "im so hyped right now".
Its actually kind of odd how much better Tastosis was in BW, you would have expected them to improve over the years, well Artosis did in the play by play, but the analysis and enthusiasm just isn't there anymore.
Edit: This thread has just become another Broodwar elitist bashfest of SC2 and vice versa. Guess It happens with every bit of BW news thats featured on TL, but oh well guess that's what will always happen when the community is so split.
You must feel so trendy using the phrase 'broodwar elitist'.
Well to be completely honest, brood war fans are often straight up rude to sc2 fans for no good reason.
Um, no? What the fuck are you talking about, its almost always started because someone comes in and goes 'i hope he switches to sc2' or 'sc2 is better why doesnt this guy just give up BW?' I browse both bw and sc2 forums pretty much the same amount, and i've seen maybe 2-3 times when BW forumers attacked sc2 forumers unprovoked. Mostly, its VERY provoked. Also it annoys me when people use the 'they use their apm on strategy and mind games' Again... Um, no? Anyone who watches both scenes, and I mean REGULARLY watches both scenes, will tell you the mind games and deep thinking going into every BW game are a huge part of what makes it amazing to watch. It may seem (to people that dont often watch BW) like they're just following a set in stone gameplan and they just have to move their fingers fast without thinking much. Which is pretty fucking hilarious, considering proper actions and reactions require much deeper strategical insight in BW than sc2
Well I'm talking about team liquid here.. Thanks for your insight though from all these SC2 and BW forums out there. 'Proper actions and reactions requiering much deeper strategical insight in BW than SC2' sounds like raw bullshit to me. What does that even mean? Is there any way to prove that in an objective way? You're basically trying to argue that apples OBVIOUSLY taste better than oranges.
Read this Ver's God of the Battlefield. Not being condescending here but that final edit will make you more informed. PS: you are warping the shit out of that analogy
Your link goes to "The Elephant in the Room" which is probably not the best Final Edit to link under these circumstances.
BW is the most competitive strategy game right now (since it has an active, historical professional scene, possessing a very clear and organized infrastructure). However, the young blood is dwindling, since it never was an entirely stable career. Money is top-heavy, Flash, Bisu, and JD combined make nearly 1m USD in salary alone per year - add the prize money of 40-50k per championship won and other bonuses and you have a hefty salary. Now compare that to everyone A-class and below. Some of them make 10k a year. That's decent, but nothing to write home about. This applies to the B-teamers and practice partners who could never get over the hump in their BW careers (MKP, Nestea, MC) and even the faded stars (Nada, July, Boxer). MVP and ForGG are the only ones who could probably have had a shot at a good career in BW if they continued.
SC2 is the fastest-growing strategy game right now. Tournaments both big and small are popping up everywhere. There's so much money in the scene right now. No sane person can keep up with the Korean AND foreigner scene (which was pretty small in BW until TSL). While its size is immeasurable, SC2's depth is still being explored. Strategies come and go at a blindingly fast rate (Mass roach -> 4 gate -> 1-1-1 -> whatever new thing people come up with tomorrow). There can be no categorical statement on how deep the strategy is right now in SC2, but at least we can be assured - the game is good, and will keep getting better. I don't think it's all that fair to compare it to its predecessor right away, even in a year's time. However, I also think that the criticism SC2 gets from a BW perspective is fair. SC2 is clearly BW's crown prince, and looking at the example of the past (or in this case, incumbent) is always a worthwhile thing to do. It won't hurt SC2, after all.
That said, a few variables can be agreed upon by consensus (which will probably not be reached hahaha).(1) SC2 has flashier graphics. (2) BW has a higher mechanical ceiling (this one isn't really debatable - it's the consequence of the interface). (3) Neither game is "finished" in terms of strategy (BW is, in terms of patches). And finally, the most controversial variable is (4) that there is a pattern of skill transference from BW (and other competitive RTS games like WC3, DOW, COH) to SC2. This last variable is mostly based on circumstantial evidence, but it's quite clear. This is why people want to see how BW's best will do in SC2, which shouldn't lead to hatred, in my opinion. We've already seen the reverse, and so we're all curious/expectant/skeptical. All valid things to feel and think. However, this shouldn't affect our views on the "superiority" of one game over the other. Neither should it lead to thoughtless posts wishing the other game's death. That's simply unproductive (waste of time to even fight about it).
Personally, I hope Bisu, JD, Jangbi and Fantasy do get to try SC2 and it's shown on-stream. I hope nobody forgot Nada vs. TLO (pre-Kespa call) and how amazing it was to see Nada play so well after just a few days' worth of practice. That, for me, is already clear evidence that A/S-Class players from BW will do well in SC2.
guys guys guys,man I wish there was like a refresh button to the thread that removes all the comments after like the 5th page or so.
but thats not what I wanted to say,think of these four guys we have here,Think what they would think for a second.
they were invited to Blizzcon to have a good time and they will.Whether or not they will play BW or SC2 shouldn't really matter if they have a good time right, I mean why cant you be happy as long as they are happy.
my brothers on the BW forums,ask yourself this, Would you really be unhappy/make a big deal if they played an SC2 showmatch even at a cost of a BW one?
we know the roles that these guys play very well in what they do to say without a doubt in our mind that they won't be jumping ship anytime soon.
and my friends on the SC2 fourms,ask yourself this, Would it really matter to you if they decide to continue their progaming career in BW rather than SC2?
would you be upset,maybe but in the end does it matter?
all I'm saying is we gotta be happy as long as the players are happy,you(we) shouldn't be affected of whatever they do at blizzcon.
On October 20 2011 00:59 BLinD-RawR wrote: guys guys guys,man I wish there was like a refresh button to the thread that removes all the comments after like the 5th page or so.
but thats not what I wanted to say,think of these four guys we have here,Think what they would think for a second.
they were invited to Blizzcon to have a good time and they will.Whether or not they will play BW or SC2 shouldn't really matter if they have a good time right, I mean why cant you be happy as long as they are happy.
my brothers on the BW forums,ask yourself this, Would you really be unhappy/make a big deal if they played an SC2 showmatch even at a cost of a BW one?
we know the roles that these guys play very well in what they do to say without a doubt in our mind that they won't be jumping ship anytime soon.
and my friends on the SC2 fourms,ask yourself this, Would it really matter to you if they decide to continue their progaming career in BW rather than SC2?
would you be upset,maybe but in the end does it matter?
all I'm saying is we gotta be happy as long as the players are happy,you(we) shouldn't be affected of whatever they do at blizzcon.
I wouldn't mind if they play SC2 showmatches vs other players. But there is one thing I am worried is those arrogant SC2 pricks out there saying stuff like "Jaedong is so bad at this game, Bisu sucks, how can you expect these guys to be good in SC2, BW fans?" after they lose to the like of MVP. I have a strong feeling that this will happen and start spreading shit because the BW players are "overhyped". The existence is SC2 is negligible imo.