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Australia4514 Posts
Haven't seen an actual topic set aside for this so thought i'd do one up. As currently spread over 3 topics. So post yours and Pros clicks. (my cut and paste from earlier post with some additions)
I've noticed theres almost no Protoss players above 200.
* = not competition game Ever)P(Ssun 338-346!!!!! (guy i played 2nd rnd itv) AranG 301 Eji 260-273 Reach 263-272 Foru 272 Intotherain 195-201 Intotherainbow 186 GGon 181-217 Me 180ishy Breeze 160-180 Giyom/Grrr 164 *Autumn 163 *Garimto 154 *Naz 119-130
PS someone do zergers and terrans
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Mr.X 155 Blackman 270-301 Myself 111-140 Elky 150ish Maynard 111
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Somone do Chojja ^_^ that would be interesting
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Tomson 180-200 sYs(DUNE) over 200
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everything above 100 is fine, More clicks you made are mostly unnecesarry ones. I often see people with 300 clicks selecting cc 50times, pressing scv 150 times in a row:/ you dont need more then 100 cliks a min if you make few misclicks
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Oversky 286 edit: Chojja 340's [korwcg '02 replays, gotten faster over the last year prolly ] re-edit: first game i picked of chojj'a he did 340, the other 6 in the packet he did 303-312, so low - mid 300's Boxer - 257 first game vs yellow (223) at wcg not to be mean, but im just showing u the difference in the level of people at the pro level, u can be pro and not be as good, for many reasons one of which is this- Nazgul 129 -vs hellghost (192) when he lost in dbl elim wcg Froz (230) vs Ranger (129?!) the tvt on lc that put froz out or gave him his first loss in the tourny. Which kinda reminds people why we always thought froz could do well if he wanted to in korea~
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On May 05 2003 11:08 LumberJack wrote: Oversky 286 edit: Chojja 340's [korwcg '02 replays, gotten faster over the last year prolly ]
Thats just disturbing on so many levels.
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another interesting thing i saw, in the first game of Boxer vs Froz, 12/9 HV game actions were:
Froz (227) vs Boxer (224), granted boxer was sort of confined and in a tight spot for most of the game, couldn't do much, or didn't do the right thing, imho. just interesting~
another random thought at 5am, was looking through wizard's '02 wcg games, i think alot of people give him a hard time, and not enough props. He was close to 200 in his games, doing better than grrrr... and elky in their games. Granted he also got owned like 12yrold girl vs elky, but still, he's got the "skill"
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but why you think doing faster is doing better? I bet someone doing better on reflex from missionred.com would be doing slower rates.. I think anyone above 100-120 has the speed to do everything required, and keep in mind this is an average, doesnt mean someone couldnt be really fast when speed is needed.
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yes indeed, if some player is drinking or not paying attention when he already won etc the average goes down fast. I see you people defining skill by how fast they click lol, i bet i can kick the ass of a person that clicks 300 while im remaining under 100. only intresting of average clicks is to see how fast someone is not how good
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well, b/c we see that in a general sense the higher actions performed per minute are in almost all cases the better skilled player, now "skill" has many definitions and forms in bw, im just talking about the physical sense for a moment. the player who can do more than the other, in a zvz for instance will almost always have the advantage? Now in the overall sense of skill we see that boxer does 250's? and he's considered to be the "overall best" player, All of the scores for pro gamers seem to also hover above 200 and below 260, cept for our resident alien zergs that are out there, u know who u are~! anyways, we see by that comparision that skill/placement/rank in the world is also associated with have a greater than 200 apm rate, so one can thus say in a theorized way that u need at least a 200+ action/min rate inur gameplay to at least compete. Compete as in, "in the same league". We know that there are strategic elements and knowledge based items in bw that allow a person to take advantage of certain aspects in the game to overcome certain gaps, hence why even nazgul can compete at all in korea, b/c of his vast knowledge and understanding of the game. Now its also apparent that reach know just as much or more than nazgul about bw, but reach also does 100more action/min on the average than naz, so reach will always be the better player no matter what? That doesn't always = the win, but still its something, and thats also why .. eh 5:30am, fuck it, just trust im right? okok, one more shot, lets say a player does 100 vs boxer who does 250, now in a battle lets say both do the exact amount of commands, well since boxer did his 2.5x faster, he gets to go back to his base and make more tanks, and 4 scvs from his 2 cc, and build 1 more fact and send the idle scvs to mine ALL the while the other player is still doing the same commands boxer did, so boxer's econ/macro will be more efficient than the other guys, but there is also the idea that boxer gets to spend 2.5x MORE into microing than the other guy while having equal macro with the opponent, imagine that? and everything else inbetween~ okok i think thats good :o
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Have to agree with Strafe and Naz on this one, lately ive been checking my replays and my average is around 120 , and i play quite fast but not doing random pointless clicks , and i have plenty of wins vs 200+ and some of them quite really easy wins , ive even seen Noobs with 200+ clicks !. When i go check the reps they like press s 20 times on a row when theres 3 4 s left till you get money for the next svc , and stuff like that.
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Hovz: 120 Madcow: 140 rS.Day[9]: 150 [Feel]..Arch: 180 McNasty: 170 Mondragon: 110-160 is)city(: 200 JJu: 190 SunMoonStar: 200 vs IntoTheRain 214
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It also proves that the guy you were playing against was actually trying , and not watching TV / drinking / his sister bothered him or any other excuse he used when he lost
I'm sure when rek beat Nada , nada said he was 'tired' i know he said that when suker beat him :o
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Tsunami: 90 vs Arang: 230 Daaman 180 vs Gundam 230 (really old reps)
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interesting that mondragon is relatively low for being so good :o Doesn't that also show his weakness though? i mean, its obvious mondragon's style of play that he likes to dictate what goes on in the game with very specific strats that he knows all the counters to, what if someone were to play unconventional vs him? And mondragon would have to "work for it" and just play the game in the conventional sense of making men, defending, etc. Instead of having a set gameplan which he's mesmorized b4? maybe im just rambling, but i think knowing that my opponent has (if i did have a significantly higher apm rate,) a lower apm rate, that i think i could use that to my advantage and incorporate that into my gameplan. Just an idea, its kinda like leveling the playing field and letting players just duke it out, whover is the better player should win regardless. And no better doesn't always = fastest, but i think its a general trend that if u can make more actions than ur opponent then u can be just as accurate at them as well, if not more, and if you hold true to that, i think it would be a rather huge advantage to have a higher apm rate
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someone do gameik0s for me plz?
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Me 60 fk.Zubo 180-210 Why am I that slow? What is wrong with me? I just checked some reps and total newbs are faster than me.
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Because you're fat?
I get 150 most of my games.
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hmm, i got 120 once when i was trying a bit (in the beginning) but it was more or less a 500 spike in the beginning and the rest was low 60-70's
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On May 05 2003 12:27 0x64 wrote:
Mondragon: 110
Seen Mondragon get up to 140
Tsunami 96 vs Sven 156 (Are there any replays older than that? )
Me.. 60-80 (80 when really trying )
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Australia4514 Posts
2.5 years ago i was 50-60, i had ppl falling asleep in between my clicks at aus wcg state prelims
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This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
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matters how much you try to, for example, I can be as low as 110 when I dont try and as high as 180 when I do.
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I might add, It's not how much you try, it's its what you are used to play. I just did a test out of curiosity. My rep before I stopped (few weeks ago) were all around 100. Now I tried a game "playing fast" and I got near 200. But I was feeling stupid with all those useless click to Improve the rate.
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I got a rep where Nada has 375 actions/min.... :O
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For those who wanna know: TvP Lanchia_kr.... WCG 2002 Korea prelims...
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On May 05 2003 09:33 Legionnaire wrote: Ever)P(Ssun 338-346!!!!! (guy i played 2nd rnd itv)
Haha really? I played that guy in HnR) vs Ever) team battle!
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[feel]..arch is more like 200 usually.
Gameik0s is 120-150
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of course all numbers are -/+ 20% and any player can double his rate on one game..
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I agree with 0x64 I am only around 90-120 but that is because I only select things im going to use, or check buildings etc etc. I dont waste clicks selecting my scvs 300 times in the first few mins of a game bla blah. I do not see the point in that.
I think a better test of 'speed' is seeing on the graph where abouts battles take place, and what your avg speeds are during these battles. It shows what your capable of and dosnt just display 10000001 pointless miss-clicks.
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hmm It would be nice if people find a good way to express the speed of the player.. the speed graph is more interesting than the number alone. maybe a rate like attack action/action. This would show nothing, but attack action is something less used to freeclick , so you would see the battle part of the game and who used more attack .. hmm hard to get anything usefull, someone give better ideas !
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speed does not mean skill
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I got a question, the numbers in these forums that are being presented...are they actions per minute (Hot keys, mouse clicks, etc.) or just mouse clicks?
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i am at 10000 click per minute, i'm jsut that good.
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Czech Republic players
BaB[MG] about 210 Destroyer about 200 uT)Crow about 250+ Blooder about 190
i can prove with reps ^_^
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You are all forgetting that Maynard has been found to be the absolute slowest of all the known players.
Given Maynard's history, I think everyone arguing that speed = skill, should stop.
Thank You.
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Someone do Nal_Ra, I Imagine it will be a pretty low number because Nal_Ra is a very efficient clicker.
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ive done nal_ra, he is 190-200 i was surprise myself, because I saw his first person view and it wasnt looking fast. maybe the vod cool him down
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he might use a lot of hotkeys.
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^_^ i have around 140, 160 if i'm really trying. Too bad 1/3 of those actions are placing rally points over and over again.. (bad habit of me, gotta learn to replace those clicks with hotkey usage)
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well, you see it when he use hot keys too . Anyway i did some test. Setting groups ctrl 12345678901234567891234567890 etc as fast as possible should get you to 900 apm. setting group 1 to a unit, press down 1 (keyboard repeat), click move afap, got me around 400 apm.
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lol, i felt overwhelmed when you said that almost no toss players go above 200. And also the fact that two toss players are arrang and reach. I always used to argue that its the players fault not the race. I was so right :O. Reach won Ongamenet and Arrang is also very good, i used them for expamples to prove my point that protoss race is not *noobie* ANd they where the only ones over 200. now flame me plz~
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AranG 301 Eji 260-273 Reach 263-272 Foru 272 Intotherain 195-201
not just 2 thx
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I know, i just edited it
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In those exhibiongames of Elky vs Beast Elky: 200 Beast: 230
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Cuz you don't click on a building 500 times in a row
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lets say a player does 100 vs boxer who does 250, now in a battle lets say both do the exact amount of commands, well since boxer did his 2.5x faster, he gets to go back to his base and make more tanks, and 4 scvs from his 2 cc, and build 1 more fact and send the idle scvs to mine ALL the while the other player is still doing the same commands boxer did, so boxer's econ/macro will be more efficient than the other guys, but there is also the idea that boxer gets to spend 2.5x MORE into microing than the other guy while having equal macro with the opponent, imagine that? and everything else inbetween~ okok i think thats good :o
That example doesn't work. You say the exact amount of commands. Sure thats true that if they have to do the exact same amount then boxer will win. But of course it doesn't work like that. Lets say instead that both have equal knowledge, skills etc. Now both will click on a Factory and build a tank. But instead of sitting doing nothing like the 100 click player, Boxer will click the fax 80 times or his cc 80 times or whatever. Thus having a higher act/min rate but still doing exactly the same. There is a minimum act/min level (I would say maybe around 100-120) where you can still do exactly the same as someone with a act/min level of 200+ because after the 100-120 anything else is redundant clicking and doesn't actually effect the gameplay.
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yep , knowledge is the key word ... sometimes , good micro doesn't mean you have to make many clicks ...(exception: goon-hydra dancing)
'knowing' how to micro is more important than simply clicking fast
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On May 05 2003 17:35 Funktion wrote: Show nested quote + lets say a player does 100 vs boxer who does 250, now in a battle lets say both do the exact amount of commands, well since boxer did his 2.5x faster, he gets to go back to his base and make more tanks, and 4 scvs from his 2 cc, and build 1 more fact and send the idle scvs to mine ALL the while the other player is still doing the same commands boxer did, so boxer's econ/macro will be more efficient than the other guys, but there is also the idea that boxer gets to spend 2.5x MORE into microing than the other guy while having equal macro with the opponent, imagine that? and everything else inbetween~ okok i think thats good :o That example doesn't work. You say the exact amount of commands. Sure thats true that if they have to do the exact same amount then boxer will win. But of course it doesn't work like that. Lets say instead that both have equal knowledge, skills etc. Now both will click on a Factory and build a tank. But instead of sitting doing nothing like the 100 click player, Boxer will click the fax 80 times or his cc 80 times or whatever. Thus having a higher act/min rate but still doing exactly the same. There is a minimum act/min level (I would say maybe around 100-120) where you can still do exactly the same as someone with a act/min level of 200+ because after the 100-120 anything else is redundant clicking and doesn't actually effect the gameplay.
Yes, but above 250 it does make a difference.
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Hrmm... [QUOTE]On May 05 2003 12:46 Pomozite wrote: Me 60 fk.Zubo 180-210 Why am I that slow? What is wrong with me? I just checked some reps and total newbs are faster than me. [/QUOTE
Well, really sometime is just like that. but can't resisted it happening, that day might your tire.. as hell or you play too much hand's can't move that fast or! your thinking of too much strategy and combo's.
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Pomozite you're probably not using your keyboard much. Nada and Xellos have 300++ . It means more 6 actions per second Since I think you can't make more than 90 apm with the mouse, the keyboard makes the difference in the rates. Those who have seen the vod with the keyboard can testify, players like Xellos, Chojja or Nada are hitting their keyboard constantly, even when they have nothing to do, while most progamers have break, hitting fast, having another break, etc Their left hand are as good as Chojja's one but they don't do so many useless stuff.
PS: I'm playing protoss with an average of 115-125.
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Can sb check [ooPs]Lee? He's supposed to be very slow. *g*
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Yes, but above 250 it does make a difference.
How?
I said 200+ meaning anything over 200. I used 200 as an example becuase it seems to be about where slower pros start. I could of said 800+ and it would be the same.
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so how about a top 10 fastest of each race? from those who havent been mentioned yet niza is incredibly fast every game >300 kos is also >250
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Now lets see who can type the fast :p
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LIES IMAGE, ALL LIES. NTT IS GOD, HE GETS 300 ACT/MIN BY DEFAULT~
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it does make a difference whether you click 120 or 280 'cos pros only do useless clicking in early game and in mid and late game they can utilize their swiftness. they click usless in the beginning becouse they are warming up. when boxer and his opponent figths and boxer micros faster and goes back to his base to build, he wont do anything redundant becouse that would be inefficient and they want to be as efficient as they can be not the fastest they can be. hum hope you get the point
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You're so smart
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its useless to click nothing and select units over and over and hotkey ur building 50 times, it has nothing to do with speed but with useless clicking
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ntt dont have that much cuz he didnt used keyboard that much as korean progamers
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Well the reason why its becoming more equate to skill is because its a hich clickrate under pressure. If boxer is on the attack and you can manage 300 clicks a minute and still put up a fight, your pretty damn good.
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On May 05 2003 19:37 Strafe[iR] wrote: its useless to click nothing and select units over and over and hotkey ur building 50 times, it has nothing to do with speed but with useless clicking
if it has nothing to do with speed than how come that the fastest plyers has the fastest apm? strange coincidence?
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I really have to use keybord more. I checked more than 15 my wgtour replays and it is allways between 55 and 65. My opponents speed is between 80 and 150 clicks per minute, but in all that replays I won.
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On May 05 2003 19:34 ZyPhReX wrote: You're so smart
hm why do you say that? you try to mock me? I said I hope you get my point b/c I am not native english speaker so I have a hard time sometimes expressing my self. not becouse I think I am "so smart". so fu
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
On May 05 2003 17:08 Hydrone wrote: lol, i felt overwhelmed when you said that almost no toss players go above 200. And also the fact that two toss players are arrang and reach. I always used to argue that its the players fault not the race. I was so right :O. Reach won Ongamenet and Arrang is also very good, i used them for expamples to prove my point that protoss race is not *noobie* ANd they where the only ones over 200. now flame me plz~
And wtf did AranG ever win?!
Btw: Casual on WGT, who some people claimed to be Xellos is around 150, which means it's not him, or he's not trying. I think you all are exaggerating Chojja's actions as well, i've checked about 10 reps with him and the average would probably be around 230, Nada is above 300 in 90% of the games.
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LOL Ready2[ESC], chill bro. I was just being sarcastic to something that I thought was obvious to many, that's all
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i checked some games i did 150-200 but doesnt the rate depend on how long a game is also? for example wouldnt u average more clicks in a 5-10 min game then 50-60 min ?
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it really makes if difference if u scroll with keyboard or if u scroll with ur mouse, doesnt it?
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On May 05 2003 19:46 nEph^Destroyer wrote: ntt dont have that much cuz he didnt used keyboard that much as korean progamers
But he still was the best
Btw, does anybody got some url were I can find those wcg korea prelims replays? TIA
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Those are actions per minute which means keybord and mouse.
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oh sorry that was site "2" not the last one. : [
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MINES 60 ALSO :\ Why is it so bad tehehe :\
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Blackman from polish WCG2002 prelims has got 260-310 (average from 8-10 reps) __ EmKey
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On May 05 2003 17:08 Hydrone wrote: lol, i felt overwhelmed when you said that almost no toss players go above 200. And also the fact that two toss players are arrang and reach. I always used to argue that its the players fault not the race. I was so right :O. Reach won Ongamenet and Arrang is also very good, i used them for expamples to prove my point that protoss race is not *noobie* ANd they where the only ones over 200. now flame me plz~ GARIMTO is slow and Arang has not made it to 1 league in 3 years of pro-gaming
your logic is retarded
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hm wth? how do u know how many clicks they use?? and whats the point of this?
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On May 05 2003 21:55 TaKnEmDwn wrote: MINES 60 ALSO :\ Why is it so bad tehehe :\ Really? I checked many replays just to find someone slow as I am, but they are all faster. Do you have wgtour account? I would like to check some of your replays.
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I'm around 170 with most of my games, can only get above 200 when I specifically try to get APM up.
I'd say past 200 APM the difference is very small (ie a 200 APM vs a 350 APM would still come mostly down to knowlege and tactics, however a 200 APM vs a 100 APM the 200 will almost always win), but obviously you'd want higher APM during natural play. Even if the edge is smaller past 200, it's still an edge.
Those are just my estimations for human players though. I do believe an expertly programmed computer AI could easily defeat any progamer with as low as 120 APM, but a human would never be able to practice himself to being THAT efficient.
Edit: Major exception would be for Human Protoss players, they can beat 200+ APM Terran/Zerg/OtherProtoss just as easily as they could at 200+ APM, and I can't understand why. Protoss is a screwy race.
And obviously a newbie clicking stuff randomly and mashing hotkeys to get above 200 wouldn't be able to beat a seasoned 100 APM player. All these examples are assuming both players know the game very well and practice it often with good players.
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Protoss is a race that needs less clicks;o But again speed doesnt matter
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I don't like to sound too much like a newbie, but how do you tell?
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i click around 100 - 140 and i'm quite comfortable with that since i use hot keys.. i guess speed doesn't eqal to skill..but if there's a way that they can check the /min click speed within a time range of a rep..i think it'd be a much better indicator to the clicking skill lvl thingy..since..as most of u have already said, kor pros click useless bulidings in the begining all the time or being lazy at the end of the game...if u can just check the click speed of hte time when he's microing....
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Tsu with 90!!! omfg... u sure.I mean this guy looks likes he can control every single zergling.
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how u guys calculate this?
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stop saying its click, or it count every keyboard press. Its just the amount of action. Actions are Move, Attack, Patrol, Left game, Set group to number, Select Unit, Build.. No matter how you do them, if you move with right button, its 1 click, but if you press M and then click that makes more physical action. Just wanted to make clear for some guys. And again those are numbers and you can make them tell anything you like..
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Canada398 Posts
i click 100 to 115 in my most recent games... last 3 months
I average 110 the most.
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can someone test themarine xellos iloveoov tobecontinued. and ogogo
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Sweden1225 Posts
daaman high 270, average as t in caring games = 200/230 v-gundam ~300 )na(pro ~300 sonjjang ~250 themarine ~300
^^
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Actually the gundam one is accurate. I was checking some of his reps the other day.
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Mines like 140 average...
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I average 100-120 apm in games played over the last month. My recent low is ~95 in a TvT; my recent high is ~130 in a PvT. I also get higher apm in TvZ.
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Where do you get the program somebody give me the link please!
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S(O)ME(O)NE just go look at some of the past topics and look for a topic with the word Superview in it.
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uT)Crow -> high about 300, average 250
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Boxer gets 230-260 in important games.
Also those people who say they saw the vods and pros with 200-300 actions per minute just pointlessly click at buildings and press build key one thousand times, are wrong. To an extent -
That happens in early game when they have nothing to do. I watched 2 Boxer, 1 Nada, a few Garimto, a few IntoTheRain, and 1 Chrh first person VODs and if you bother to realize, you will see that in late game they are very effecient and almost never repeat commands, so the numbers you get from the program are very close to their actual playing speed, not millions of useless commands.
Hotkeys really add to it, but again, they go through them a lot to check on how soon the units will come out of the producing facilities, to make more units, and to organize their army. Rarely anything more.
So yes, speed matters, and while 100 without wasteful commands is decent, 200+ without wasteful commands is a different level of playing IMO. Nazgul is an interesting exception, but as someone said, protoss is the race that requires least clicks.I agree. Plus, as far as I know, Nazgul hotkeys only gateways, resulting less activity than Nada and Chojja show when they are controlling their units.
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click/press speed isnt the same as command speed... sometimes, a command can consist of press + click
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i agree with whats his name... clicking is not needed to be good. Clickin over a 100 is enough but gosus prefer to click more in idle time- they perfectionists
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After checking some random replays..
In the past month - 190 - 240 APM *15 replays*
1 year back - 175 - 195 APM *6 replays*
2 years back - 110 - 130 *3 replays*
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Some one tell me where to get this program, shit I'm lost.
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NM, I just saw the above link,thanks.
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Australia4514 Posts
On May 05 2003 19:37 Strafe[iR] wrote: its useless to click nothing and select units over and over and hotkey ur building 50 times, it has nothing to do with speed but with useless clicking
I used to think that way to.
But if you see fast people play their hand is like playing a piano it just flies over the keyboard. Clicking fast on keyboard helps you to increase your handspeed there, knowing exactly where the keys are so u dont have to pause and make sure you pressed it right. It does help.
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u guys are reading way to much into this actions per minute thing, pretty soon well be seeing, friend 1: "hey have u heard of so and so, hes a new good user", friend 2: "oh nice, whats his actions per minute". this is going to become the replacement for gamei highs
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If 2 equally experienced equally smart and accurate people play 1v1 and the other is faster, who would you think wins the most games? Easy answer.
Yes, try to think it this way: If the best are doing it, it has to have some meaning no? So start your thinking there. A bit like noobs looking at boxer rep and saying how much he sucks because he makes "the wrong units" or something like that. Condition yourself to think that pros are better than you, and then you have easier time understanding why speed is inportant. Speed is very important in RT(ime)S (duh!). Why else would people use rally minerals at the beginning? Come on, it only improves your game little. Not to forget the constant acceleration moves used. Every little you give more the better. The progamers are just human, and have human bodies. Wired up warm and running, being fast gives them good reflexes I would say. The faster you react in BW to your opponent, the better your unit micro control and situation control is. So the pros keep them on the edge and wired up all the game, like has been said here allready. So, do you react faster when you are clicking like maniac all over the place? Hell yes. The important clicks also come fast when you have potential to be fast and, again when you are "tuned" for it. Remember this is sport. So what I think is: - A player is doing his best when he is at his OWN optimal speed. Not his fastest potential necessearly. Why go faster then? To learn to be faster, you maybe just a bit handicapped when you are practicing to be faster but hopefully it will pay off some day when you optimal speed is actually faster than it used to be. Then again this happens automaticly when people are trying to win really bad. God bless the male predators incints. This could mean that people are constantly playing a bit faster than they should? - A perfect AI wouldn't need 300 per minute. It wouldn't need acceleration moves. No warmup moves. But we are not perfect AI. We have a mouse and keyboard to input commands, and benefit from adrenaline. So in short, if you want to win your next game, play your optimal speed. If you want to improve, try playing faster than you are used to. If a noob who only knows the zealot rush would play: Well executed zealot only game is more successful than zealot+goon+templar, but he should try to learn the more complicated too? There are of course speed caps I would assume, which are personal. Just find your own speed. If your slow, don't critisize something you don't have(speed). Try it out, the big nerds are doing it too. If your body and mind is well when you play, you play well. So was that all too self-evident? lol This issue has so many factors, and here are just some of them. I probably forgot many things I was about to say too but oh well. So much bs hard to remember all. Many times when I try to click a lot I forgot to think. That's a nono. Think all the time. Nevera aka mr.self evident.
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Oh yeah and I would say guys like Boxer and Nazgul are distributing their speed pretty well.
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Norway10161 Posts
212.5 average
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Heaven[30D.O.M] is known to be one of the fastest clickers, thou a guy like ChoJJa, moves his mouse faster and more accurate. Those things combined, with intelligence makes a good starcraft player.
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Nevera I love YOOOOOOOOOU
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Who cares about speed, I don't. Speed counts very little in my opinion.
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Sweden1225 Posts
veg u DOUBT that gundam and )na(pro have 300?
what you say is true but don't doubt they have 300 actions/minutes according to BWChart, that's like, a fact...
Most koreans who are/were good at ladders such as gamebugs/gamei etc have a bit over 200^^
koreans so gosu
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Australia4514 Posts
i just checked some of the napro reps of games i had vs him. 272, 273, 263 no doubt higher in real games, though i think napro is one of those players that show speed isn't everything.
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napro is v-gundam's younger brother , no?
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How do you see the amount of clicks from a replay?
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Nada has over 350 in almost all of his WCG qualifier games (top 381 -_-. Chojja 300-340.
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because NaDa is GoD not a human -_-;;
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Australia4514 Posts
On May 06 2003 14:17 iloveoo wrote: napro is v-gundam's younger brother , no?
i beleive so, he has been an amateur in Dream Team for 2 years though hasn't advanced in anything, i think.
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Androide- 180-220 Ghost - around 180 Asmodey- around 150 Flash- 120-150 Marine- 150-200+ me- 60-100
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if by Marine you mean TheMarine --> lol
he's about 300 (a bit less) Plz check games that actually matter (ie live) , not when they aren't trying
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Heaven 250+ NO1 130-170 and speed actually is very good skill measuring on high levels. i mean u need not only click fast, but also know how to click. tsu with his low click was microin pretty gosu. hasus sure can just click on scv 500 times, but when were talkin about boxer, hes not wastin his click, cos he knows where and when he should click.-.-
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On May 06 2003 17:18 iloveoo wrote: if by Marine you mean TheMarine --> lol
he's about 300 (a bit less) Plz check games that actually matter (ie live) , not when they aren't trying i have only few reps when hes 250. not more. -_-
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me, 165 I sort of expected something like that.
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I average 120~140, my low is 95, my high is 170 ><!
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BeJJe, it doesn't cap at 100 APM, trust me on that one.
200 minimum for humans, much lower for an amazingly advanced computer AI.
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Netherlands2766 Posts
Gundam and Gundam)Pro aka )Na(Pro SN_NaPro are just good friends. They are not related. And Pro achieved 270 or so in a game vs me. Some fast T_T.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
Winter Naz is 120 and i've seen plenty of games where he does everything perfectly even in long games!
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if you have more speed, you get things done faster. if you get things done faster, you have more time. if you have more time, you are at and advantage. if you take away his time and have more speed, the advantage grows further still.
player x has 120 apm top speed. player y has 240 apm top speed.
player x attacks player y. player x expends 80% of his apm attacking, y spends 50% of his apm defending.
player y manages his base better then x by a wide margin, since it takes roughly ~80-90 apm to perform proper base management.
player x's base management suffers horribly, and he loses 6 minutes later because of it.
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Casper dont forget that player Y can spend that extra ammount of clicks on useless clicks , so that analogy is wrong unless you only count usefull clicks.
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"useless clicks" is garbage speak used by newbies.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
i wouldnt call them useless as they do have a purpose
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no, im prolly the slowest of you all that's cuz i only clic ONCE for everything, probes just once to mineral, scout just once, Move attack just once, gee i never do useless clics but i manage just fine =]
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On May 06 2003 20:38 nArAnjO wrote: no, im prolly the slowest of you all that's cuz i only clic ONCE for everything, probes just once to mineral, scout just once, Move attack just once, gee i never do useless clics but i manage just fine =] U R my private Go Su :>>>
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maybe naz should answer that... i still doubt that most of the 250 /min pro gamers do "useless clicks" when they micro battles.
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Did any of you Stupidheads read my post?
Please, for the love of god, watch some pro VOD's. There are no Useles clicks in late game. It's just that in first 5 minutes they have very little to do, but since they can achieve the speed with which they click their scv 50 times in the first minute, in later game anyway, it doesn't affect the APM counter.
Speed matters, Stupidheads. It may not matter every single game, and the inteligence of moves is a great deciding factor, but it matters a hell of a lot. If you're playing at 200 APM but wasting your clicks, you're probably going to lose, because your concentration is weakened by that unnecessary activity, and your gameplay is worsened since you could have been doing better things with those actions.
Once again, pros don't waste clicks once they start getting fighting units, and speed is an important factor on high levels of play. There, as always, few exceptions. Thank you.
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the reason nazgul is elite and you are not is simple. he is smart. you are dumb.
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Also, with respect to Nazgul, I don't intend to hurt his feelings, but how many times do you think Nazgul will win out of 10 against Nada, or Chojja, in a serious game? (Let me answer this, I may be wrong, but I think I'm not, (1-3/10 at best)
Does that mean he's stupid?
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MPXMX your understanding of the game is at a low level. When making a unit move, instead of clicking back once, you click it 5 times, that greatly increases ur click spead, but however does nothing for your gameplay.
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There are no useless clicks in late game <--- correct
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On May 06 2003 21:33 Roman wrote: MPXMX your understanding of the game is at a low level. When making a unit move, instead of clicking back once, you click it 5 times, that greatly increases ur click spead, but however does nothing for your gameplay.
someone type this up in bold letters and start a chain letter throughout the bw community.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 06 2003 21:31 MPXMX wrote: Also, with respect to Nazgul, I don't intend to hurt his feelings, but how many times do you think Nazgul will win out of 10 against Nada, or Chojja, in a serious game? (Let me answer this, I may be wrong, but I think I'm not, (1-3/10 at best)
Does that mean he's stupid?
Yeah but thats a hell of a lot more than most people with 200+
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if you click once, the unit will often not move at all or move a centimetre on your screen and get stuck in air. that's the main reason this rapid clicking started, I think. also if you send units up or down a ramp or through a thing passageway, half of them will go back and take an hour to get to the destination. if you keep clicking forever, everything will move in an orderly fashion. there ya go.
my understanding of the game is fine
and once again, watch First person Vods of good players - boxer, nada, chrh, if you haven't, and really analyze their play. in late game, sieging, moving, hotkeying etc is all done with a single commmand very quickly, unless they miss.
which doesn't happen often.
thank you
Edit: I know Rekrul. I wasn't trying to put down Nazgul. I'm just demonstrating, that among the reasons Nazgul would lose to them is their effeciency and speed in unit control.
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is it necessary to have broodwar installed on your harddisk in order to run superview?
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Quoting Nazgul Arang one of the Fastest players on Earth in all this years of Pro gaming never qualified to a big league or won anything with a relative importance and he is an hotkey mouse speed DEMON.
Again if you are used to play average good koreans even the most chobo ones can get 200+ easily.
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I try to click really fast in the beginning lately, and I always fuck up my builds Im so busy constantly clicking things that I forget to build depots or pylons, etc
Im at 110 cpm and this is not doing useless clicks in the beginning so it probably brings down my average. I also find that with zerg I get more clicks/min than with toss. I suck at hotkeying tho and zerg has easier hotkeying I think, so perhaps that is why...
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i tried opening a replay file with superview.exe and it doesnt work. it says it misses a link to a missing export file a kern3l32.dll file or something.
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I usually average at 100 actions a minute, on a good game i am like 120
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My actions/minute was from 69-77. I play p and do not click 5 times to move my units, this is a waste of effort. i also notice that T and Z usually have the highest actions/min, Zerg users seem to have the highest actions/min. I noticed that non-korean P users actions are very low. Usually from 115-139. grrr..: at wcg vs elky was 136 hnr)pride[tC]-121
I Know i have beaten players with higher actions/minute than me all the time. Almost everyone is better than 77.
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This software is pretty cool, you can actually view the distribution of those actions happened in the game. I found that the biggest difference between a pro and a normal player like me, is the hot key/move ratio and the hot key/select ratio. If you see the distribution chart, you will notice that those pros always have more hot key actions then move actions.
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I think it's for comparison. If you both get same apm you both should have 1.
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it's only important if the 300 whatever clicks per minute were contributing towards the game. may be there's a certain number, optimum number that once exceeded doesn't really make a diference
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There is a reason why all these korean pro's are getting 200+ and you're all sitting here with your 50-150 cpm talking about how speed doesn't matter.
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for the most part, im 170-210 APM
160+ in games when i get cocky and slow down in the middle
160-- when my mom is yelling at me (a third of games lol)
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Foreigners Averages:
Oddy is like 95-105 FroZ is 225-235 Akbar (z7-TranCe) 115-130 CyrAx 165-180 OwChS 85-100 DReaMe 185-200 OptiOn 210-225 Madcow 150-165 Nazgul 115-130 Yosh 165-175 SobaD[Rush] 140-150 S.L[Rush] 175-185 Qoo[Rush] 190-200 CosMo[Rush] (ME) 125-135
Koreans (That I know) In_Myung.. 230-245 ZergLee 250-260 [NaN]Eugene 250-260 Enough 210-230 vivian[N&G] 235-240 PuSan[S.G] 290-305 aPpLe[S.G] 250-275 H_PauL_WII 135-155
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i have 120-140
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Good arguments BeJJeLove. You sure convinced me. You truly are the best.
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I am nobody so it does not matter how many act/min i got. But related with how much it matter to have big many act/min i would say the folowing: koreans pro do not make unnecesarry moves so thats why theyr 200-300 act/min means a lot.And not only koreans...all pros.As for this soft i think is a good thing because it gives a more objectif ideea on playing bw. gl hf
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I am nobody so it does not matter how many act/min i got. But related with how much it matter to have big many act/min i would say the folowing: koreans pro do not make unnecesarry moves so thats why theyr 200-300 act/min means a lot.And not only koreans...all pros.As for this soft i think is a good thing because it gives a more objectif ideea on playing bw. gl hf
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Hmm indeed Beast. I run superview for the first time before and i averaged in at 60 :o So i thought i must be missing stuff, and when i focussed more on my APM, and perhaps what i am missing. I got it up to about 90 and i have noticed that my game has improved quite a lot. (especially my micro) So i think APM is a good sign of skill, as long as long as there is no useless clicks.
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who is everpwind? nice 382
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I think i was right just checked my apm worst being 60 BUT the last game I played I got 84 and my enemy 140 and yes i won ;-D
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hmm, u shouldve read the whole post. i have Marine's reps where he is like 150, and on the others his 250 and iloveoo says his actual click is about 300
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United States32432 Posts
On May 07 2003 06:29 BeJJeLove wrote: Does APM = Mouse Speed ? Please shut up everyone Im too lazy to write a memorandum like Ilnp, so i'll say this. How many times you click a mouse and click a hotkey on the keyboard does not show how fast or how slow someone is with a mouse. You can't even compare the two.
In cas's defense
Cas was using the term 'apm' to mean 'speed'. He wasn't implying the number that bwchart gives you, he just mean relative speed.
Cas > You ;p
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On May 07 2003 19:02 baal wrote: Dudley did chated on WDT and here is the proof...
Dudley vs liquid.ninja WDT ladder = 132 Dudley vs VeG[Pg]= 264
132 to 264... impossible -_-
his name is dudey and yes, that is a proof. even in a complete fungame players dont get slower than maybe 50 apm compared to their average.
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Ofcourse it proves it, pro gamers go up and down that much cuz some games are exhibitions, see WCG games and they tend to be lower, cuz are important games, and on exibitions they try to look more fast.
but 132 to 264 is just impossible, and it was not a casuality, check all his WDT ladder games, he never never goes far from 132
dudey you sux ~ ^_^
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
but it also depends on the game, on a slow game I click a lot less..
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well i tried it myself i can be quite fast becuz in one game i tried to get as much actions as possible I got over 250, when i try to win i have like 110-130;/ but i assume dudey played normal in his wdt laddergames and his best in wdt finals and then you really cant explain going from 130 to 260+ even when you play alot less serious you dont speed up twice when you do play serious
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 07 2003 20:53 Strafe[iR] wrote: well i tried it myself i can be quite fast becuz in one game i tried to get as much actions as possible I got over 250, when i try to win i have like 110-130;/ but <b>i assume</b> dudey played normal in his wdt laddergames and his best in wdt finals and then you really cant explain going from 130 to 260+ even when you play alot less serious you dont speed up twice when you do play serious
Hush.
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dudey went 130 to 260? most of his games were 300 which is even more impossible. hed have to go from 2 actions a second to 5. not even realistic. unless he can honestly say he hasnt tried since he got bw which is ignorant to believe.
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guess no screenshots will deny this LOL... caught ^_~
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See Nada 1st PErson Vods where it shows the keyboard 300+ is TipeWriting the whole fucking game. pretty insane
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Hey, i analyzed 5 games of chojja, he averaged in the mid 330's and had a high of 355, i'd say thats insane. I get about 130 avg. my friend In_Mutal averages 180, yet he looks like he has 400 .
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i think the reason koreans have more apm is because of the way they play bw, if boxer was at 100 apm then so would everyone else be too.
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yes so how can one go from 130 to 300+?
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apm != mousespeed you apes. apm = activity. ACTIONS PER MINUTE.
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Who are all the progamers/non progamers who can reach 300 + APM? I know of Nada...and Chojja, from what I hear from all the rest of you guys. Just thought I'd ask...
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[pg]Didi8 200-250 too bad he switched to war3
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so anyway I downloaded BWChart today and checked my replays for the first time and now I wonder.. why do people say my APM are 115 - 130
I checked some of my tournament replays (HEHE, nope.)
Nazgul vs nO.1: 163 Nazgul vs nO.1: 144 Nazgul vs nO.1: 157
Nazgul vs JJu: 141 Nazgul vs JJu: 164 Nazgul vs JJu: 158
Nazgul vs Kos: 148 Nazgul vs Kos: 168 (game was too short to mean anything)
thought it'd help you APM junkies a bit
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Australia4514 Posts
LIES ALL LIES
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Norway10161 Posts
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On May 08 2003 07:36 [pG]Liquid`Nazgul wrote: (HEHE, nope.)
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no proof, as leg said LIES -_-;;
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I think you guys are both right: People who thinks high APM = high skills seems to forget APM not such a big factor if the guy is repeatedly messing up (high apm+low accuracy)
People who thinks regardless of APM, a person is still gosu (I think this is based on if the player has very acurate control to make up for the repeated APM's necessary)
Thus, I think APM + ACCURACY = MAD SKILLZ, BABY!!
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nada is the fastest he is around 360+ in some of the replays i have
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Norway10161 Posts
On May 08 2003 09:11 [pG]Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I did get that
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On May 08 2003 09:11 [pG]Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Premium Membership idea :p
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im do not really understand the different categories:
hotkey: are those control groups? all keys on the keyboard? a, m, t, etc.. the official hotkeys or maybe all keys - crtl, shift, spacebar, alt, F's.
what is a move action exactly?
what is a special move action exactly?
when i press 1 to select my first group of 12 marines: is that a select or a hotkey use? or both?
when zerg cycles with control groups through his hotkeys and masses hydralisks. does he get a train action for each hydralisk?
set rallypoint is a ? action (maybe just a hotkey if you use the hotkey) everytime my tanks follows the direction set by the rallypoint is that a move?
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NaDa my love, he is so fucking sexy
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Russian Federation9 Posts
It is quite easy, why protoss have less apm. Look: when zerg trains hydralisk, he selects hatchery (1act), selects larcae (1 act) and hatches (1 act). When Protoss trains, he has to make only 2 act. (no larvae) That is why zerg have higher apm.
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Norway10161 Posts
On May 08 2003 12:03 marines12 wrote: It is quite easy, why protoss have less apm. Look: when zerg trains hydralisk, he selects hatchery (1act), selects larcae (1 act) and hatches (1 act). When Protoss trains, he has to make only 2 act. (no larvae) That is why zerg have higher apm.
Nada is about the 2nd fastest pro . also arang is fast toss.
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Naz vs SaFT (PGChallenge 2001) 105 vs 150 hi Victor ^.~
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zyprhex why did you reply with ban? to my topic? i think the questions are quite relevant to this entire discussion. without knowing the answers all this is speculation.
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in case someone missed my questions:
=======================================================================
im do not really understand the different categories:
hotkey: are those control groups? all keys on the keyboard? a, m, t, etc.. the official hotkeys or maybe all keys - crtl, shift, spacebar, alt, F's.
what is a move action exactly?
what is a special move action exactly?
when i press 1 to select my first group of 12 marines: is that a select or a hotkey use? or both?
when zerg cycles with control groups through his hotkeys and masses hydralisks. does he get a train action for each hydralisk?
set rallypoint is a ? action (maybe just a hotkey if you use the hotkey) everytime my tanks follows the direction set by the rallypoint is that a move? =======================================================================
all of which are very relevant and interesting imo. any ideas?
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150 quite close
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i dont care what anyone apm is as long as i dont understand what it consists of. how its structured. plz tell me. or am i missing something very obvious here?
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Norway10161 Posts
missing something very obvious
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be so kind: enlighten me.
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Move Action: when you order a unit to move by either using the bottom right hand button or right clicking on the map.
Special Move: Either assigning a rally point or having your units move because of a rally point, not sure which.
Hotkey: pressing one of the number keys (and maybe the F keys, not sure though).
Select: selecting units with the mouse.
Train Action: whenever an attempt to make a unit is made, either via a letter key or one of the visual buttons.
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Iraq1230 Posts
Hi guys, could you please inform me how the messure the clicks/min. Is there a program or something. Thanks for an answer.
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special move is stim, rally, seige, etc
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On May 07 2003 20:56 Shockey wrote: dudey went 130 to 260? most of his games were 300 which is even more impossible. hed have to go from 2 actions a second to 5. not even realistic. unless he can honestly say he hasnt tried since he got bw which is ignorant to believe.
anyone with 2 working eyes and 2 hands can score 130. it's not about that he went from 130 to 300. the question is "can dudey really be that fast?"
veg screenshot, no relog, 266 apm in a rapefest during which he obviously relaxed a little.
how is 300 unrealistic?
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Wow, Anselan, you actually wasted your time answering those questions... Oh yeah, Anselan, do you remember playing RacingReaver on WGT? He owns
proefkonijntje, did it take you long to come up with so many silly questions which you can answer very easily if you take a few short moments to analyze the information you are given?
By the way, Casper, action those actions you named have nothing to do with special move. Special move, I think, is when you make your units move by other means than right-clicking, or using the "Move" command. So Rally, patrol, Attack move, maybe repair, and others, will go under that category.
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its just impossible to jump from an usual 130 to over 300!!! when theres not even 10 guys in the world who can do that... do you really think dudey is as fast as chojja?...
and dudey says he changed his hotkeys for the tournament... i dont know if you are aware of this but his hotkeys were IDENTICAL to chojja's and you can confirm that on cosmos replays cafe...
so chojja's hotkeys, over 300APM... this just smells like chojja's work.
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jinnam also same hotkeys and 290 apm
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This may sound stupid but why would someone play for ilnp?
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its not as hard as you all think to speed up to being that fast.
I recently began trying to speed up my hands and in the bast 3 weeks i went up 120 APM, and im not talking 60 to 180 or anything. I'm talking 170 to 290. If you actually try to speed up it really isnt THAT difficult. You just have to try and learn how to do it, and then apply it to your game and make it effective.
The speed isnt proof get over it.
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naz, do the pro leagues make you promise not to release the replays?
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technically they don't I think
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freak you have 290 handspeed?
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Please send us a replay freak, sounds like you are pretty fast...
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yes, I have 290 handspeed in competitive games, I'll see if I can find one of my rivals tonight and send you guys a fresh one ^_^
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Nada speed is 400 on average tvz's , thats some food for thought
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element)freak, plz stop lying , froz is fastest in usa at 240's
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Freak isn't USA, and Dudey is fastest in USA with 300 yo!
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On May 09 2003 03:51 Element)FrEaK wrote: its not as hard as you all think to speed up to being that fast.
I recently began trying to speed up my hands and in the bast 3 weeks i went up 120 APM, and im not talking 60 to 180 or anything. I'm talking 170 to 290. If you actually try to speed up it really isnt THAT difficult. You just have to try and learn how to do it, and then apply it to your game and make it effective.
The speed isnt proof get over it.
how did u do it?(same question for ilnp)
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How did I do it? I just tried to get faster, I repeated hotkeys, move units, selected stuff and reselected stuff until I eventually I got faster and faster. Its really not all that hard, very easy if your playing alot of TvZ.
Its just like any sport, the more you sprint, the faster you go until your faster that alot of people. You just need the desire to get there. You have to remember that your hands apply to most of the same rules as the rest of your body, train them to have muscle memory and go faster and they will.
And I'm canadian not american. And exactly how do you KNOW froz is the fastest in the US, really now, stop assuming please T_T.
EDIT: and btw, LumberJack, its people like you that make me tend to usually keep to myself on these forums and online. I say my APM, my IQ, have an opinion of my own or anything like that, I get flamed and called a liar. Be a little more open minded will you? That goes for the rest of the people like you as well, things are possible, even if you refuse to believe them.
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hmm in running... you can only sprint so fast even if you train a lot... in sc, many pros play everyday and practice 8+ hours a day(bw is their job), but they still cant get as fast as nada. so i dont see how u and ilnp are able to increase speed by 100+% in a month when you guys dont even play the game like its your job(assuming you guys arent progamers).
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Yes, people do have their maximums, my hand speed maximum just happened to be higher than the average person, what exactly are you getting at?
And I only go to school for 3 hours a week at the moment so I have time to kill on playing
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Let's see...
A) You are looking at games Progamers are playing that do not matter compared to tournament games for foreigners. Is it conceivable that maybe ChoJja playing a gamei game a year and a half ago which started with a 5 pool is maybe him not playing optimally?
B) APM does not measure user interface actions, which are not recorded in replays. Players who frequently use minimap, space bar, or f2/f3/f4 receive no recognition for those clicks, where alternatively players who utilize these receive full recognition when in reality the difference between the two are much slower than APM would lead you to think
C) I'd assume that longer games tend to bring the APM lower as the bullshit inflated score at the beginning has less and less effect on the overall average (maybe the programs would ignore the first two minutes if possible)
D) Games you are checking of me did indeed not matter, and most likely contain situations where I am commanding far less units/bases, and have generally less to do. It should also be mentioned I chat a lot in fun games & I don't think typing messages factors into APM either.
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On May 09 2003 07:33 Keanu_Reaver wrote: Freak isn't USA, and Dudey is fastest in USA with 300 yo!
LOL
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i want to thank ANselan and Casper for responding to my post but...
On May 08 2003 17:16 Anselan wrote: Move Action: when you order a unit to move by either using the bottom right hand button or right clicking on the map.
Special Move: Either assigning a rally point or having your units move because of a rally point, not sure which.
Hotkey: pressing one of the number keys (and maybe the F keys, not sure though).
Select: selecting units with the mouse.
Train Action: whenever an attempt to make a unit is made, either via a letter key or one of the visual buttons.
Casper mentioned after that that sieging, stimpack etc are special moves.
well... i'd really like someone who actually knows what the definitions mean ot explain them. stimpack and siege and such are defintely not special moves; they are mentioned separately in the graph. i can tell exactly how many times i sieged up and went back to tank mode.
if hotkey counts only the use of number keys that is very strange. cause the letters are officially called hotkeys. ok action isnt even a category!! why do you explain it anselan? action per minute is what the program measures totally. and thats all the categories added up. if i knew what the categories did i'd figere this one out myself.
if a special move would be a unit moving cause of a rally point???!! apm would mean less then it does now. i guess ATTACK-MOVE is one of the special moves, just like PATROL and such but i am not sure.
Select: also includes clicking on buildings and probably everything possible to select. but do you get a select when you select by using the control group bound too it?
im getting the impression that no one here knows what hes talking about. prove me wrong please.
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Casper mentioned after that that sieging, stimpack etc are special moves.
well... i'd really like someone who actually knows what the definitions mean ot explain them. stimpack and siege and such are defintely not special moves; they are mentioned separately in the graph. i can tell exactly how many times i sieged up and went back to tank mode.
if hotkey counts only the use of number keys that is very strange. cause the letters are officially called hotkeys.
if a special move would be a unit moving cause of a rally point???!! apm would mean less then it does now. i guess ATTACK-MOVE is one of the special moves, just like PATROL and such but i am not sure.
Select: also includes clicking on buildings and probably everything possible to select. but do you get a select when you select by using the control group bound too it?
im getting the impression that no one here knows what hes talking about. prove me wrong please.
They way actions are displayed has changed quite a lot in the last few days, mostly because BWchart is not using Superview anymore. That's why, for example, Special Moves have been transformed into regular actions.
"Hot Key:Assign,x" means you select a group of units and "assign" it to the x key (a number). "Hot Key:Select,x" means you select the group previously assigned to the x key.
For rally points, the only action that is recorded is when you set the rally point, not when units move to it (as it doesnt involve any user action). Same for patrol.
In conclusion, as explained many times before, an "action" is a user action either by keyboard or mouse, that has an influence on the game. Just think about it: what is needed for the BW engine to actually play a replay?
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i have 200ish and i still suck.. speed over 140 is enough to be good its not how fast u click above that, its how u think..
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how do you work this out?
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Ever)P(Ssun 338-346!!!!! (guy i played 2nd rnd itv) well i think that this gyu was very nerves to make so mutch clicks ;> btw Resonate with a program named Bw Chart u do not need so many clicks to be pro or to be good just u need to play good ;> btw nada has ussual like 190 but in one his rep with breeze on charity he drops very gosu tanks and has 267 ;> btw mine are about 160
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PPPPPPPP:
Hhahahahaha Freak THAts fucknig funny.....
omg i HAD to post here because of that,.,, i fell off my chair laughing at his ass,,,,
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLL
iOi;;
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my highest apm rite now is 197
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It seems to me people have a false notion on what gives a person fast hands. Progamers do not monopolize the market on fast hands ok? I'm sure martial artists who don't even know what sc is will be able to get around 60 apm when they first get the game, but after figuring out all the ins and outs of the game and start utilizing all thats given to them, is it really so hard to figure out they will suddenly reach high 200's or 300's?
How is this different from Dudey and Freak? Dudey goes from doing stupid strats and just trying to have fun to suddenly trying really hard and using all that is given to him from the game and he rises a bunch in apm...he's just got fast hands and before he wasn't utilizing all that was given to him, its not so illogical to think this situation did occur, especially given the fact that he took a pic of him+comp screen, didn't relog, and played veg getting 265 apm.
And in Freak's defense, I've known the guy for a pretty long time and we've talked/gamed alot. If there was anything that ever put him on a higher tier than me it was his speed...infact 170 sounds quite low for him, he's just got fast hands.
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Theres no worse mother fucker that the one who dont want to see the truth....
god you MUST be retarded... you would deny even dudey's confession.. you would say he was forced to do it!!!... admitt it you bunch of idiots.
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Keanu, you forget, only pros are allowed to have fast hands, its illegal for us to T_T
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I'm 75-85 and my opponents are mostly 100-150 and i don't have many reps saved where i lost....
the results seems to mean nothing in that respect =/
good other stats from that program tho =]
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
MPMX or whatever your nick is.
Look 1st person VODs again: all pros making a lot of trash clicks even in mid/late game. Just pressing 100 times "T" when in factory to order tanks, always checking theirs assigned groups etc.
APM = nothing
Get over it.
thx
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On May 09 2003 21:15 Element)FrEaK wrote: Keanu, you forget, only pros are allowed to have fast hands, its illegal for us to T_T
just prove it with a rep , hopefully that will make everyone to stfu :/
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but then a pro obviously played for me right?
actually, i'll be honest, I got ilnp to play for me.
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On May 09 2003 23:59 PaleMan wrote: APM = nothing
Get over it.
thx
Tell that to Nada and Chojja
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PaleMan, please take your negativity elsewhere.
Anyway, I don't see them checking on assigned groups much except to watch/move their units, which is good to do, and to produce/check on production in their factories,raxes,gateways etc.. There is a reason for goood players, most of the time, having higher APM than shitty ones. You must think I'm saying speed is the only thing that determines how good a player is. Obviously it's not, but it's important. If you deny that, you're a dumbass.
thx
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Personally I think APM is like the size of your Dick. Now lets say people discovered the ruler (superview/bwchart) Sure some of us are gifted :D and some are unfortunate, but boasting of your endowments means nothing if you ain't got the right motion in the ocean. APM only shows how fast someone is, now can they use their speed to benefit their gameplay is what I wanna know.
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On May 10 2003 01:08 Element)FrEaK wrote: but then a pro obviously played for me right?
actually, i'll be honest, I got ilnp to play for me.
Don't get mad, but you have to realise if you get almost 300, you are doing pretty fucking good, I mean compare to all the non koreans mentioned here, nobody mentioned gets as high as you do.Except for dudey heheh. So rep would be nice, thank you.
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speed doesnt = skill
speed = speed
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On May 10 2003 02:27 DV8 wrote: APM only shows how fast someone is, now can they use their speed to benefit their gameplay is what I wanna know.
Guys, what about making this thread something interesting and constructive for a change? What DV8 is saying here is exactly what BWchart what designed for in the first place: try to figure out interesting facts about the game from the data. Speed is only a part of it. I'm not a good enough BW player to figure out the rest myself, so instead of flaming around about APM like deranged firebats, could you start thinking about ways to better interpret the data ?
For example: can we figure out the player's strat from the data? Can we define "openings" like in chess (=build order?), and see them the data? Can we see the "rush time/mid game/late game" sequence? etc
Thanks in advance
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The replay, plz freak.
Jca, no we can't.
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In all of my replays, my APM will peak at about 240. Yet my average is about 120.
Most of the time this is because I do _NO_ useless clicks, and I use shift click a lot for scouting and complex unit maneuvers.
I figure as long as I _CAN_ go fast when it's needed, there is no problem with my speed. I think many other people are in the same boat.
Personally, I'd rather be thinking harder on strategies and planning things than clicking my Command Center 20 times to make the same SCV.
John
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 10 2003 02:12 MPXMX wrote: PaleMan, please take your negativity elsewhere. ..... If you deny that, you're a dumbass.
GG?
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Im mid diamond and I have over 90 , pretty sure im the fastest out here
ps: bazinga
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wtf is with this nercoing by low post count users! lol
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Netherlands19120 Posts
On October 31 2011 00:49 aimaimaim wrote: wtf is with this nercoing by a previously banned user! lol
Fixed it for you there .
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