이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요. 마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ 팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다) 8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다. 현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다. 정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ 블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다. 정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요. 말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ 뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness!
again very rough translation..
edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
Update (2012-11-15 06:52)
Original Post
Only posted a rough translation, hopefully someone else will fully clarify.
안녕하세요. BJ 소닉입니다. 우선 마음 아픈글을 쓰게 되어 굉장히 죄송하고. 제 자신의 한계를 느낀점에 있어..매우 속상하고 답답합니다. 누구보다 준비하면서 설레이고..기대했었는데. 블리자드 쪽에서 공문이 날라왔습니다. 현재 개인방송으로. 송출 자체가 안되는 상황이라. 결승전 및. 다음리그까지 문제가 생길것 같습니다. 블리자드 코리아랑 이야기를 해서. 우선 결승전 라이센스와 방송 라이센스까지 동시에 따야 하는 상황이라. 조건들도 엄청 까다롭고. 지금 2일 남은 결승전 갑자기 전화가 와서. 지금 이야기중에 있습니다. 승인 여부는. 이번주까지 절대 답변을 못 받을것 같아서.. 현재 캔슬이 된 상황이며.. 개인BJ로써 진행을 한다고 해도 전혀 말이 안통하는 상황입니다. 현재 걸어놓은 계약금이며, 피해도 어마어마한 상황에 이런일까지 닥치고.. 너무 마음이 아픕니다. 저도 이곳저곳..알아보면서 계속 어떻게든 풀어보려고 노력 하고 있는 상황이구요. 결승전 섭외부터 시작해서. 지금 모든게 완벽히 끝난 상황에 이런일이 생겨버리니..진짜 말 그대로 멘붕상태입니다. 스타1의 라이센스를 따기 위해. 더 많은 금액도 들어갈거고. 스타1 자체를 제 방송에서 진행하기가 힘든 상황에 있어.. 개인BJ로써 제가 어떤식으로 대처를 해야 할지도 모르겠구.. 그냥..하.... 우선 계속 저두 노력하고.. 공지 띄우도록 하겠습니다. 나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구. 블리자드는 라이센스 따려면 적어도 2주가 걸리는데 이번주 자체는 진행을 못하게 해버리네요.. 아.......
우선.라이센스 2개 따는 문제와. 결승전 추후 공지를 검토 하고 올려드리겠습니다.
결승전은.라이센스 따기전까진.아무것도 못합니다.. 신발팜 사무실도. 또는 온라인 방송으로도..
On November 14 2012 16:46 JohnChoi wrote: I tried my best to translate it.. + Show Spoiler +
Hi, Its BJ Sonic First off, I apologize for having to deliver sad news. The feeling of having reached my limit.. makes me very discouraged. As I was preparing this finals, I was just as if not more so uneasy and in anticipation. Currently, streaming starcraft in restricted. The finals and the starleague to come are put in a diffcult situation. I spoke with Blizzard Korea, In order to broadcast I need buy a license to host the finals and one to broadcast. The conditions are also very meticulous/picky. Only two the until the final and I get this call.. I am currently in the process of negotiating. I most likely won't get an approval by this weekend.. The starleague has to be canceled for now.. I want to host the finals as just an individual broadcasting jockey (I think he means not tied to Afreeca/Nowcom) but no real message is getting through. There are already contracts that are in place, and big losses in funds and to top it off this.. My heart aches. I am in the process of tirelessly looking for some kind of solution. Having found a location for the finals, everything was set up and managed so well but this situation happened.. I am really in a state of shock. It's going to take an even bigger amount of funds to buy licenses for Brood War. It's become incredibly difficult to even broadcast Brood War on my Afreeca stream. As a broadcasting jockey, I'm not sure how to even handle this situation.. Just..sigh.. First, I will continue to give it my all.. I will continue to keep you all updated. Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown.. In order to obtain a Blizzard License it'll take approximately 2 weeks.. it would be impossible to obtain a license within this week (for the finals).
To begin with, there's the issue of obtaining 2 licenses.. I will continue to update you all.
Until I obtain a license for the finals I am not able to do anything. Whether its the SinbalFarm Offline or the Online Broadcast..
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
again rough translation of new sonic post :l
The last part of it made me emotional and saw it wasn't translated, so I just took the liberty of doing it
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
Any sort of losses incurred from contracts and etc. associated with the tournament, I feel is my responsibility and will take care of it, [even though] I hate myself for it ㅠㅠ However, let's hope this isn't the end. Let's get everything approved officially, and get back up ㅠㅠ!
Hi, Its BJ Sonic First off, I apologize for having to deliver sad news. The feeling of having reached my limit.. makes me very discouraged. As I was preparing this finals, I was just as if not more so uneasy and in anticipation. Currently, streaming starcraft in restricted. The finals and the starleague to come are put in a diffcult situation. I spoke with Blizzard Korea, In order to broadcast I need buy a license to host the finals and one to broadcast. The conditions are also very meticulous/picky. Only two the until the final and I get this call.. I am currently in the process of negotiating. I most likely won't get an approval by this weekend.. The starleague has to be canceled for now.. I want to host the finals as just an individual broadcasting jockey (I think he means not tied to Afreeca/Nowcom) but no real message is getting through. There are already contracts that are in place, and big losses in funds and to top it off this.. My heart aches. I am in the process of tirelessly looking for some kind of solution. Having found a location for the finals, everything was set up and managed so well but this situation happened.. I am really in a state of shock. It's going to take an even bigger amount of funds to buy licenses for Brood War. It's become incredibly difficult to even broadcast Brood War on my Afreeca stream. As a broadcasting jockey, I'm not sure how to even handle this situation.. Just..sigh.. First, I will continue to give it my all.. I will continue to keep you all updated. Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown.. In order to obtain a Blizzard License it'll take approximately 2 weeks.. it would be impossible to obtain a license within this week (for the finals).
To begin with, there's the issue of obtaining 2 licenses.. I will continue to update you all.
Until I obtain a license for the finals I am not able to do anything. Whether its the SinbalFarm Offline or the Online Broadcast..
(Full disclosure: I know *why* they would do it. It's just an utter dick move. What, this group of BW diehards are taking away from potential HOTS sales?)
Is Blizzard trying to kill BW? I don't understand why they would even do this. Why do they have an issue with Nowcom? I thought they encourage online streaming.
I'm actually very disappointed with Blizzard because of this. I was thinking of buying/pre-ordering HotS but this is putting me off from supporting Blizzard financially.
On November 14 2012 16:47 Yaqoob wrote: Is Blizzard trying to kill BW? I don't understand why they would even do this. Why do they have an issue with Nowcom? I thought they encourage online streaming.
Every second devoted to BW is a second not dedicated to SC2, apparently...
On November 14 2012 16:47 Yaqoob wrote: Is Blizzard trying to kill BW? I don't understand why they would even do this. Why do they have an issue with Nowcom? I thought they encourage online streaming.
Every second devoted to BW is a second not dedicated to SC2, apparently...
this is just silly I mean seriously I'm truly disgusted by this.
words cannot describe how I am feeling right now. To say that I'm incredibly fuckin upset, angry, depressed and sad is a huge understatement. Just .....................................................
What the fucking fuck. I fucking hate Blizzard. No one wants to play your goddamn Starcraft 2 from this players and no streamviewers from SSL will watch Starcraft 2 instead, because you do this.
Why don't they fucking let Broodwar alone. They already killed it off and now try to diminish the rest brave organizers. I ll bet these c**ts will also soon try to convince TeamLiquid to shut down BW forums. For gods sake, these a**holes.
On November 14 2012 16:50 chrisolo wrote: What the fucking fuck. I fucking hate Blizzard. No one wants to play your goddamn Starcraft 2 from this players and no streamviewers from SSL will watch Starcraft 2 instead, because you do this.
Why don't they fucking let Broodwar alone. They already killed it off and now try to diminish the rest brave organizers. I ll bet these c**ts will also soon try to convince TeamLiquid to shut down BW forums. For gods sake, these a**holes.
Seriously what the actual F***!!!!!!????? They killed off BW pro-scene, now they want to even kill off the amateur scene?! FUCK YOU BLIZZARD!!!! Thank goodness SC2 turned out unpopular in Korea and plenty of people dislike it.
I will make sure to bring this to any Blizzard representative I meet this week end during WCS finals. I'm even thinking of making an un-cheerful sign in the crowd, and if the camera man is a Chinese dude who put on the stream every sign in English he sees.
dam all the money sonic is just LOSING too.. he put so much money into this.. contracts for renting out the venue all the people he arranged to show up.. all the sponsors too they are undoubtly gonna have to drop sponsorship which means theres no guarantee for 8th SSL.. sonic literally donated every last penny he made from afreeca balloons and he took money out of his own pocket to breathe life into this and it was getting bigger and bigger and blizzard had to step in and trample it.. i dont understand why they would do such a thing..
I am so fucking dissapointed by that that I need to make another post.
SC2 is so fucking bad, even in 100 years balancing and stuff, it could not even try to be as good as BW.
Maybe we should try to make a topic on Battle.Net and show our hate towards that. But I guess that will make them even more convinced to shut down BW completly.
I am so fucking glad that ICC and Fish are actually still up. I guess they already tried to take them down.
Why not? This is all about BW bashing because of SC2. I am just curious why would Blizzard do this, if not for SC2. Please let us be dissapointed and rant about it.
On November 14 2012 17:01 chrisolo wrote: Why not? This is all about BW bashing because of SC2. I am just curious why would Blizzard do this, if not for SC2. Please let us be dissapointed and rant about it.
in all seriousness, i dont see how blizz can legitimately think that shutting down bw leagues will make sc2 more popular. the people who are still in bw rather than sc2 have obviously made a conscious decision to NOT play sc2 (therefore their priority should be fixing sc2 rather than killing bw). like someone else said, it's as if they want everyone in korea to play LoL or something.
On November 14 2012 17:01 chrisolo wrote: Why not? This is all about BW bashing because of SC2. I am just curious why would Blizzard do this, if not for SC2. Please let us be dissapointed and rant about it.
innocent until proven guilty...we do not know if its because of SC2 unless its been proved to be so.
not saying its not because of that either, because even I'm pretty sure of it but his point still stands.
I'm going to go brush my teeth, I've got a bad taste in my mouth all of a sudden. I can't say exactly how much the Activision merger has to do with this, but I can't imagine it helped.
On November 14 2012 17:01 chrisolo wrote: Why not? This is all about BW bashing because of SC2. I am just curious why would Blizzard do this, if not for SC2. Please let us be dissapointed and rant about it.
Dude he just told you not to do exactly what you just did. He's the guy with mod powers. That's reason enough.
On November 14 2012 17:01 chrisolo wrote: Why not? This is all about BW bashing because of SC2. I am just curious why would Blizzard do this, if not for SC2. Please let us be dissapointed and rant about it.
I think we should all follow Chrisolo's example to let the general population of TL know of what's going on. I've now changed my quote to "Disappointed in Blizzard: BW SSL Finals cancelled due to Blizzard. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381957"
I suggest you guys do the same, let everyone know about this!
Isn't this the exact same thing they make every sc2 event do too? If the prize pool is above a certain amount you need to have a license to host the tournament?
On November 14 2012 17:11 Corrosive wrote: Isn't this the exact same thing they make every sc2 event do too? If the prize pool is above a certain amount you need to have a license to host the tournament?
while that is true, I believe its only for SC2, also its the case of them actively trying to shut down afreeca streams.
On November 14 2012 17:11 Corrosive wrote: Isn't this the exact same thing they make every sc2 event do too? If the prize pool is above a certain amount you need to have a license to host the tournament?
but why do it RIGHT before the finals? This will definitely have a serious effect on future sponsors as well as motivation for another season. Couldn't they have notified Sonic sooner or after this season is finished? Doing it before the tournament's end will just make future BW leagues harder to organise meaning less royalty money for Blizzard in the long run anyway.
Killing off the last bit of the Korean BW scene, what's the point? WHY??!!! It's probably not for profit, since it's been more than 2 years since SC2 release so whoever still playing BW nowadays wouldn't switch anyway.
why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Even the translation sounds overly dramatic about how depressed he is. I'm sure he put in a lot of time, but all of that time, didn't include a 5 minute form fill out or email to blizzard korea to make sure he was given the okay? LIke he said, to obtain the license he will take 2 weeks, but that's probably because blizzard has to make sure his tournament is legit and won't misrepresent the name Blizzard. Welcome to the real world people, where if you're running anything large enough to an audience under someone else's licensed product, you need to receive permission.
On November 14 2012 17:00 GTR wrote: Please do not turn this into a SC2 bashing thread.
But for the love of god let this be a Blizzard bashing thread. Holy shit I'm pissed of, what the hell can they possibly achieve by doing this. I mean fuck this shit guys, I have already made it one of my goals in life to spite Blizzard in any way possible and it appears they have the same goal for us too. I know TL is making way too much money from SC2, so any type of serious boycott from this site is unlikely, but what can we do other than pirate the game and make sure as many people as possible don't buy it? We need ideas people
Yeah how dare he try to make a tournament based only on making the fans happy. Why doesn't everyone try to run a huge tournament that has to be commercialized to cover licensing costs.
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Thank you.
No one here truly knows whether or not this guy went through the right channels in regards to stream. He can't just say "aw c'mon" and then Blizzard "oh okay" and let him stream on whatever provider he wants for a game they own the rights to. They could be looking at losing sponsors and partners because of it, it's not just a backyard tournament this is a big one.
What does SC2 have ANYTHING to do with the rights to stream Broodwar?
Blizzard is no longer the same company that made Brood War. They're just a bunch of people who happen to have the license for it. It sucks, but watcha gonna do.
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Thank you.
No one here truly knows whether or not this guy went through the right channels in regards to stream. He can't just say "aw c'mon" and then Blizzard "oh okay" and let him stream on whatever provider he wants for a game they own the rights to. They could be looking at losing sponsors and partners because of it, it's not just a backyard tournament this is a big one.
What does SC2 have ANYTHING to do with the rights to stream Broodwar?
Uh there was never any problem for 13 years before SC2. This licensing garbage happened after SC2. Also we don't see this issue with WC3.
What other company asks for licenses to allow people to stream their game?
On November 14 2012 17:11 Corrosive wrote: Isn't this the exact same thing they make every sc2 event do too? If the prize pool is above a certain amount you need to have a license to host the tournament?
while that is true, I believe its only for SC2, also its the case of them actively trying to shut down afreeca streams.
Thats wrong, you where always in need to have a license to run a professional tournament with prize pool. Just before Activision and SC2 they did not interfere.
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Thank you.
No one here truly knows whether or not this guy went through the right channels in regards to stream. He can't just say "aw c'mon" and then Blizzard "oh okay" and let him stream on whatever provider he wants for a game they own the rights to. They could be looking at losing sponsors and partners because of it, it's not just a backyard tournament this is a big one.
What does SC2 have ANYTHING to do with the rights to stream Broodwar?
Um.. I don't know how to say this... but are you drunk? It has everything to do with it And what part of AMATEUR LEAGUE don't you understand
I am so incredibly disappointed by this. Was really enjoying getting to see some High level BW again. Hopefully they find a way to do this or still run the games and releas replays.
Until I obtain a license for the finals I am not able to do anything. Whether its the SinbalFarm Offline or the Online Broadcast..
What...? So Sonic's been streaming Event matches, and SSL tournaments (this is season 7) for how long? Now blizzard steps in at the last moment and says he needs a license.. Sucks because he's been putting his own funds into this. Is Sonic saying he won't be able to broadcast anything on afreeca until this gets resolved or only SSL?
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Even the translation sounds overly dramatic about how depressed he is. I'm sure he put in a lot of time, but all of that time, didn't include a 5 minute form fill out or email to blizzard korea to make sure he was given the okay? LIke he said, to obtain the license he will take 2 weeks, but that's probably because blizzard has to make sure his tournament is legit and won't misrepresent the name Blizzard. Welcome to the real world people, where if you're running anything large enough to an audience under someone else's licensed product, you need to receive permission.
I tried my best to translate as accurately as possible.. that was the tone in the which the message was conveyed even down the dots......................
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Even the translation sounds overly dramatic about how depressed he is. I'm sure he put in a lot of time, but all of that time, didn't include a 5 minute form fill out or email to blizzard korea to make sure he was given the okay? LIke he said, to obtain the license he will take 2 weeks, but that's probably because blizzard has to make sure his tournament is legit and won't misrepresent the name Blizzard. Welcome to the real world people, where if you're running anything large enough to an audience under someone else's licensed product, you need to receive permission.
I tried my best to translate as accurately as possible.. that was the tone in the which the message was conveyed even down the dots......................
his translation is not overly dramatic, i can vouch for it
On November 14 2012 17:13 BLinD-RawR wrote: We should help Sonic salvage the situation, If hes not allowed to stream on Afreeca we should get him to stream it on Twitch.
Oh how Blizzard has fallen. Blizzard used to be the golden company where everything they put out was a day 1 purchase but after they got eaten out by Activi$ion, they've done nothing but put out a slew of poorly executed games. I've tried playing sc2 and d3 in earnest but the love & excitement and love in their games is simply gone. And this? this is just laughable. For the first time in a long time, I don't see myself picking up HotS at all.
On November 14 2012 17:13 BLinD-RawR wrote: We should help Sonic salvage the situation, If hes not allowed to stream on Afreeca we should get him to stream it on Twitch.
(Vote): good idea! (Vote): no(suggest something please)
he cant risk re-organising it knowing that twitch or any other service will very likely shut it down as soon as it goes live
I guess thats true but the translation states that Blizzard doesn't really just have a problem with him but with afreeca/Nowcom due to copyright issues.
Anyone doubting the malicious intent of Blizzard should keep in mind that they waited until like 3 days before the finals... the only round where Sonic decided to actually rent a venue.
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
Until I obtain a license for the finals I am not able to do anything. Whether its the SinbalFarm Offline or the Online Broadcast..
What...? So Sonic's been streaming Event matches, and SSL tournaments (this is season 7) for how long? Now blizzard steps in at the last moment and says he needs a license.. Sucks because he's been putting his own funds into this. Is Sonic saying he won't be able to broadcast anything on afreeca until this gets resolved or only SSL?
he wont be able to broadcast anything.. and zergman said the same thing your bringing up how hes been doing so much and they wait until 2 days before the finals T_T
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
BTW, we're gonna kill BW apparently.
what?
of course we can continue playing BW but that doesn't have anything to do with this.
Well that's a shame. That means I'm going to have to stop myself from participating in anything Blizzard related outside my FTP copy of Brood War ever again. So now, even if 10 years down the line they stop being fuckwits I still can't go back.
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
BTW, we're gonna kill BW apparently.
what?
of course we can continue playing BW but that doesn't have anything to do with this.
So wait... what happens to the sponsors who paid for advertisement? Seriously how the fuck could sonic have made any money at all from this tournament (under any circumstances), maybe it should have been turned into a non-profit organization or something Oh, and fuck Blizzard!
There are few things more enjoyable than watching a bad company run itself into the ground. I mean, it might actually be upsetting if Blizzard were evil in a clever and effective way, but as it is they're just blowing up their brand and proving detractors right at every opportunity. The next couple of years will be a fun ride.
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
BTW, we're gonna kill BW apparently.
what?
of course we can continue playing BW but that doesn't have anything to do with this.
I think he was being sarcastic, showing Blizzard logic
It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
I don't get it why the hell is blizzard doing this at the last minute of the event they could have told sonic from the beginning that there is no way you can stream broodwar for tournament usage any more without there being a license to do so.Simply put they tried to screw everything we have left and this means I will surely for the good of the world boycott blizzard products from now .They can have their !#@# up game all for themselves .
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
BTW, we're gonna kill BW apparently.
what?
of course we can continue playing BW but that doesn't have anything to do with this.
I think he was being sarcastic, showing Blizzard logic
like I said before obviously I'm not thinking clearly...I should cool off.
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
On November 14 2012 17:51 Shebuha wrote: Alright idiots, if you wanna play BW, then play BW. Don't go and try to force us to make SCII into BW; they're different games.
BTW, we're gonna kill BW apparently.
What? Get out.
I was speaking from the perspective of BW, in case that's what you're peeved about. >.> sorry
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Well, you could have attempted to post a defense of their actions, but I guess that would require more effort and actual insight than a holier-than-thou meta-analysis of the maturity of the BW community, so maybe my expectations are a little high
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
How many other companies do this with a 14 year old game?
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
I think BW fans aren't happy when SC2/Blizzard is killing it hard and fast after long journey.
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Thank you.
No one here truly knows whether or not this guy went through the right channels in regards to stream. He can't just say "aw c'mon" and then Blizzard "oh okay" and let him stream on whatever provider he wants for a game they own the rights to. They could be looking at losing sponsors and partners because of it, it's not just a backyard tournament this is a big one.
What does SC2 have ANYTHING to do with the rights to stream Broodwar?
Its just.. game broadcasts on afreeca.. just happened :l like back in the days when there were 1~2 sc streamers they just streamed ppl watched.. it was fun.. and then more ppl came along and streamed and eventually you have ppl like sonic setting up tournaments.. while it would make sense that blizzard would step in for like intellectual property rights stuff for the finals I dont understand why they need to go and attack nowcom and make all sc streamers die T_T im so so so sad..
The amount of brainless flame and hate is too damn high! :D To be honest you are not the ones saying what should they do with their games or how should they give tournament licenses, if you don't like it don't play it.
On November 14 2012 17:23 Kazeyonoma wrote: why does everyone always assume it's blizzard attempting to shut down bw for the sake of sc2, you realize they just went through a ton of trouble and a lawsuit to ensure that they own the rights to broadcasting scbw, and that people who want to do so, need to do so through the proper avenues, if this guy organized this tournament without obtaining consent (something that probably could've been done with little to no drama if he did it ahead of time like EVERY sc2 tournament does with a 5 minute online form) than none of this would've happened. But of course not, this is all about how blizzard is trying to kill bw, and how sc2 is a shit game. get over yourselves.
Thank you.
No one here truly knows whether or not this guy went through the right channels in regards to stream. He can't just say "aw c'mon" and then Blizzard "oh okay" and let him stream on whatever provider he wants for a game they own the rights to. They could be looking at losing sponsors and partners because of it, it's not just a backyard tournament this is a big one.
What does SC2 have ANYTHING to do with the rights to stream Broodwar?
Its just.. game broadcasts on afreeca.. just happened :l like back in the days when there were 1~2 sc streamers they just streamed ppl watched.. it was fun.. and then more ppl came along and streamed and eventually you have ppl like sonic setting up tournaments.. while it would make sense that blizzard would step in for like intellectual property rights stuff for the finals I dont understand why they need to go and attack nowcom and make all sc streamers die T_T im so so so sad..
Yeah this is ridiculous, the only hand blizzard has on the BW scene is apparently in killing what little there is left. I get tired of watching snipealot play BGH, fuck.
Edit: Taken back, faith in Blizzard and humanity restored. I really believe Mike Morhaime is a great guy.
What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Hate to say it, but your missing alot of the points here. Im not sure about anti-SC2, but it IS definitely an anti-blizz circlejerk and for obvious reasons. Let me explain why people are this irritated:
1) This IS the big tournament now. Best players, best action, best production. It's the equivalent of shutting down an OSL/GSL/MLG. 2) Precedence - Blizzard has, throughout its history, never cared about what people did with BW in perhaps anything more than name only. Suddenly they jump in and decide to fuck up a tiny, but significant tournament for no real reason. The profit from the tournament is somewhere between minimal and non-existant. The guy that runs it is just a business owner that loves Broodwar.
A good analogy here for why everyone is so mad is imagine Sonic is a farmer and blizz the owner of the land. The farmer pays for everything: his seed, fertilizer, water, tractor, etc. from the money he makes from his telemarketing job. He then uses the crops to help food his neighbors. On the eve of his harvest, the landlord comes in and says: "sorry, your not allowed to touch this land, we may need it for something and you'll have to go through our processing to get it straightened out. In the meantime, all the crops wither and die.
I think we would all agree that the landlord is certainly within his rights of what he can do, but that doesn't make him any less of complete fucking douchebag. What's allowed is not always what is right.
3) Douchebaggery - They let this whole tournament run unhindered until the finals venue was decide, sponsors lined up, notable commentators ready to role...and then just a few days before the finals play their cards. By waiting this long they ensured their was nothing Sonic could do. It hurts the integrity of the tournament, the hype, and those helping sponsor. Had blizzard given reasonable notification Sonic could easily have had plenty of time to resolve the issues with difficulty, but by waiting blizzard smoothly ensured the tournament would get fucked over.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance. Damn straight it's an anti-blizzard circle jerk and by god is it deserved. If you paid more attention to the events going on and stories behind them this all would have been obvious and you wouldn't be coming in here and accusing people of random hate. You basically just did what you accused all of us with doing, only replace hate with ignorance.
On November 14 2012 18:05 Angra wrote: Fuck Blizzard. Why are they even trying so hard to shut down BW and promote SC2 when they can't even make SC2 a good game to begin with.
You sir, made my FUCKING NIGHT.
and dam, why cant they let Amateur league alone :<
Though I don't watch BW since OSL, sad to see that people cant watch amateur leagues.
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
LOL WHAT OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY??? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?????????
What's most indicative of Blizzard's intentions is that they sent a copyright notice to Nowcom about Broodwar, but not SC2. Not that SC2 on Afreeca gets any viewers in the first place (GOM rents out a 2k capacity room on afreeca and only gets 300 views lmfao).
Since when the fuck do they send out copyright notices regarding BROODWAR STREAMS???? Oh, when it's been crushing SC2 in terms of popularity I guess ...............
please, present me the other side of the story. DEFEND BLIZZARD FOR ME. Btw, BW license for tournaments is prohibitively expensive (Sonic is not a poor man btw) .. for those ppl who didn't read the OP and are saying Sonic's at fault for not filling out some oh-so-easy form or wtf shit you're talking about.
With Valve getting an official partner in South Korea to release Dota 2, I wouldn't be surprised to see more Korean Dota 2 players rather than Korean HoTs players.
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
How many other companies do this with a 14 year old game?
How many?
List one.
Well, there is no company with position like Blizzard's, so the answer would be probably noone else. Not becouse they are nice and not care about the money, but becouse noone else had a game like BW in a country like Korea.
this is outrageous i'm sending an email to blizzard full of bitchings.
there are only diehard fans left for bw and there's no chance that this amateur tournament will take anything considerable away from sc2. this is just a dick move for no good reason.
Damn this is so fucked up man.....I cannot even believe this, so all korean BW streams on Afreeca will be shutdown now? How ridiculous... I guess this is the beginning of the end of a resolve doesn't happen...Will this harm snipealot's stream in the future? I hope not...
I am going to say a prayer for Sonic, hoping something good comes of this, I cannot believe Blizzard is shoving SC2 in peoples faces, I guess it is obvious which is the better game. T_T
God bless sonic, keep your head up and don't worry everyone here at TL is hoping for the best.
2) Precedence - Blizzard has, throughout its history, never cared about what people did with BW in perhaps anything more than name only. Suddenly they jump in and decide to fuck up a tiny, but significant tournament for no real reason. The profit from the tournament is somewhere between minimal and non-existant. The guy that runs it is just a business owner that loves Broodwar.
I just wanted to comment on this part.. the profits from this tournament are somewhere between NEGATIVE AND NEGATIVE sonic is pulling money OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET to fund this T_T I cant stress this detail enough this guy loves bw more than anyone could imagine.
On November 14 2012 17:07 supernovamaniac wrote: + Show Spoiler +
이건 아니다 정말... 게임이 두개있으면, 사람이 하고싶은걸 하게 놔두고, 그나마 아직도 좋아하는사람들을 위해 살려둬야지, 그냥 이렇게 죽이는건 아니다. 옛날에 캐스파때문이라고해도, 개인방송리그는 개인이니까 거기에 맞춰서 돈을 받아야지, 이렇게 뒤통수치는건 아니다.
Ugh.
dam this.. i complete agree with this -_-
Care to fill in those of us that cannot read Korean?
Would be appreciated sir!
snm just said if thers two diff games there are gonna be two diff groups who enjoy one or the other. for the ppl who love the older game you should keep it alive. just cus of issues iwth kespa you cant slam a giant license fee.. this is a individual casting and should be charged a fee that is scaled down to an individual's price.. you cant just betray ppl like this :l
Does anyone have contact to Sonic? Might be good if we collect positive responds to his league and let someone translate them and send to him. So he does not get discouraged.
2) Precedence - Blizzard has, throughout its history, never cared about what people did with BW in perhaps anything more than name only. Suddenly they jump in and decide to fuck up a tiny, but significant tournament for no real reason. The profit from the tournament is somewhere between minimal and non-existant. The guy that runs it is just a business owner that loves Broodwar.
I just wanted to comment on this part.. the profits from this tournament are somewhere between NEGATIVE AND NEGATIVE sonic is pulling money OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET to fund this T_T I cant stress this detail enough this guy loves bw more than anyone could imagine.
Well, that just makes blizzard even douchier than I thought.
this is a big corporation blatantly shutting down a grassroots amateur tournament, fueled only by passion for the game -- just so they can greedily squeeze out the little life left of the BW scene
and there are people wondering why we are outraged?
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
On November 14 2012 17:07 supernovamaniac wrote: + Show Spoiler +
이건 아니다 정말... 게임이 두개있으면, 사람이 하고싶은걸 하게 놔두고, 그나마 아직도 좋아하는사람들을 위해 살려둬야지, 그냥 이렇게 죽이는건 아니다. 옛날에 캐스파때문이라고해도, 개인방송리그는 개인이니까 거기에 맞춰서 돈을 받아야지, 이렇게 뒤통수치는건 아니다.
Ugh.
dam this.. i complete agree with this -_-
Translation please!
Translation: "This isn't it... if there are two games, just let the people choose what they want to play. At least leave (brood war) alone for those who still enjoy it, it's wrong to kill it off like this. In the past, let's say it was due to KeSPA (the contract-pay saga)'s fault, but now, this is a personal thing so at least adjust the (license fee) accordingly. Just stabbing (the brood war fans) like this is wrong"
The anger here is fully understandable. SSL gave a glimmer of hope to a new BW scene in Korea when most bw fans thought that it had died with the decline of MSL/OSL. It had so much potential, juice girls, a studio, kim carrier for finals! Sonic has a diehard fanbase though and i think he'll work it out somehow.
A more troubling aspect of this is the lawsuit against afreeca and that the barrier for starting up a little tournament is raised, very hard for new people to organize something without a large fanbase.
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If over the last couple years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney just for fun. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
I just want to give you a massive high-5, and since your a mod I wont say what I want to say to the other guy :D
On November 14 2012 18:40 konadora wrote: this should be in front page of TL
On November 14 2012 18:39 Abjurer wrote: The anger here is fully understandable. SSL gave a glimmer of hope to a new BW scene in Korea when most bw fans thought that it had died with the decline of MSL/OSL. It had so much potential, juice girls, a studio, kim carrier for finals! Sonic has a diehard fanbase though and i think he'll work it out somehow.
A more troubling aspect of this is the lawsuit against afreeca and that the barrier for starting up a little tournament is raised, very hard for new people to organize something without a large fanbase.
On the other hand, I am kinda glad they sued afreeca, because that is a sure-fire way to piss off every single Korean netizen and ensure you have single-digit HOTS sales coming from Korea
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If over the last couple years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney just for fun. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
not just for fun, but out of passion. Sonic had a vision for the revival Broodwar and was set to share his incredible love for the game, reigniting the passion and hope of many other BW fans who had thought it was gone .....
Seriously, this development is the most heart-breaking thing for him, and for me too.
On November 14 2012 18:39 Abjurer wrote: The anger here is fully understandable. SSL gave a glimmer of hope to a new BW scene in Korea when most bw fans thought that it had died with the decline of MSL/OSL. It had so much potential, juice girls, a studio, kim carrier for finals! Sonic has a diehard fanbase though and i think he'll work it out somehow.
A more troubling aspect of this is the lawsuit against afreeca and that the barrier for starting up a little tournament is raised, very hard for new people to organize something without a large fanbase.
On the other hand, I am kinda glad they sued afreeca, because that is a sure-fire way to piss off every single Korean netizen and ensure you have single-digit HOTS sales coming from Korea
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If over the last couple years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney just for fun. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
I just want to give you a massive high-5, and since your a mod I wont say what I want to say to the other guy :D
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If over the last couple years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney just for fun. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
I just want to give you a massive high-5, and since your a mod I wont say what I want to say to the other guy :D
On November 14 2012 18:40 konadora wrote: this should be in front page of TL
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
On November 14 2012 18:48 hellblau wrote: What is all this hate here? This Sonic dood's words read biased as fuck. Don't you feel this "i'm telling much less than half the story" vibe?
SC2 may not be the game i we are waiting for. But that is no excuse to side with an obviously retarded useless statement of a Korean dood.
aw man thats just not right. why would you post some shit like this cmon man go and delete that jesus -_-
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
again rough translation of new sonic post :l
I'm glad he said that, if Blizzard reject him for going through the proper channels now they will seriously piss people off more than they have right now.
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
again rough translation of new sonic post :l
The last part of it made me emotional and saw it wasn't translated, so I just took the liberty of doing it
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
Any sort of losses incurred from contracts and etc. associated with the tournament, I feel is my responsibility and will take care of it, [even though] I hate myself for it ㅠㅠ However, let's hope this isn't the end. Let's get everything approved officially, and get back up ㅠㅠ!
On November 14 2012 18:53 Plexa wrote: I have news'd it for people who have BW enabled. Incredibly disappointed in Blizzard.
Cool thanks Plexa, but can you make it Featured News for people who haven't enabled the BW option aswell? I'm pretty sure that everyone that enabled BW will see this regardless of it being featured anyway.
On November 14 2012 18:53 Plexa wrote: I have news'd it for people who have BW enabled. Incredibly disappointed in Blizzard.
Cool thanks Plexa, but can you make it Featured News for people who haven't enabled the BW option aswell? I'm pretty sure that everyone that enabled BW will see this regardless of it being featured anyway.
Honestly dude what people are saying is right- if it's put on the front page.. oh god it's in community news. INCOMING WAVE OF DESTINY FANS. HIDE THE CHILDREN AND MBC VODS
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
maybe if you knew what blizzard have done over the years, or at least give a damn about the "game that is killing sc2" then you would be a bit more sympathetic. but i guess not.
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
again rough translation of new sonic post :l
The last part of it made me emotional and saw it wasn't translated, so I just took the liberty of doing it
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
Any sort of losses incurred from contracts and etc. associated with the tournament, I feel is my responsibility and will take care of it, [even though] I hate myself for it ㅠㅠ However, let's hope this isn't the end. Let's get everything approved officially, and get back up ㅠㅠ!
oh my i didnt even see those last lines. thanks for translating! i just kinda copy pasted into the reply box and translated there... sonic T_T i wish there was a way we could help out...
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
because this is what the sc2 community is known for right? Take the high road and all...
On November 14 2012 18:57 ImbaTosS wrote: Edited, not because I didn't mean it, but because it would have got me banned.
I didn't think it would but to be honest sometimes it's better to keep some emotional reactions to yourself then write them the next day if they're still just as.. virulent
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
Go in a SC2 drama thread and see if you can find at least one mature respond there. I can tell you, you will not find one. And most SC2 drama threads are not about killing the only remaining last stand in high-level starcraft. And yes this is what I just wrote. SSL is the only tournament where we can watch professional play. Imagine taking away every major tournament for SC2 away (GSL, OSL, MLG, Dreamhack, IPL, Iron Squid, ESWC, WCS, LSC, etc.). You would be just as pissed as we are...
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
HAHAHA why don't you stop being a dick? Blizzard are shitting on someone's incredibly hard work, huge efforts, money, time and inconvenience, not for the first time. Goddamn it, they are so fucking insecure. Wankers, the lot of them.
This is actually a little heartbreaking. Did you see where he was going to host it? Did you see who he had commentating? This would have been just such an amazing event, and Blizzard come blundering in to ruin the day yet again. Anyone who can stick up for their side of this is living under a rock. And should be living under a bigger, sharper, heavier one. Fuck, fuck, fuck!
우선 블리자드 측에 정상적으로 라이센스 따고. 결승전 진행 어떻게든 마치겠습니다. 우선 라이센스 부분에 있어서, 미숙하게 처리 한점. 방송 진행에 문제 생기게 해서 기다리게 한 점 부터 시작해서 선수분들 시청자분들. 그리고 저 도와주려고. 발 벗고 나서서 도와주신분들에게 다시 한번 사과의 말씀 드리겠습니다. 무슨일이 있어도. 일 처리 제대로 하고. 제대로 진행 해보겠습니다. 죄송합니다
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
The finals will play out no matter what. first off regarding my unskilled handling of licenses, and making you all, viewers and players, have to wait and for those ppl who put time and hardwork into helping me. I'd like to sincerely apologize. Whatever happens I will resolve this correctly. I will try to run things as professionally as possible. I'm sorry
again rough translation of new sonic post :l
The last part of it made me emotional and saw it wasn't translated, so I just took the liberty of doing it
우선 계약 걸려있는 부분들이나. 손해 보는것들은. 제 잘못이라 생각하고. 제가 감당해야 할 부분이니 제 자신이 너무 밉습니다.ㅠㅠ 그래도 끝이 아니라. 공식적으로 제대로 라이센스 따고.. 다시 달려봐요 우리..ㅠㅠ!
Any sort of losses incurred from contracts and etc. associated with the tournament, I feel is my responsibility and will take care of it, [even though] I hate myself for it ㅠㅠ However, let's hope this isn't the end. Let's get everything approved officially, and get back up ㅠㅠ!
Blizzard forgot Brood War is their own product, they should not promote rivalvry of the same franchise, even if they WANT it(so more people will buy newer stuff = SC2), they still shouldn't do anything for simple PR sake.
Imagine this, Blizzard HELPS Sonic Starleague organize finals. Fuck this is PR win, Blizzard cares for old and for new. Nah nah nah. Hots coming, no distractions.
On November 14 2012 18:57 ImbaTosS wrote: Edited, not because I didn't mean it, but because it would have got me banned.
I didn't think it would but to be honest sometimes it's better to keep some emotional reactions to yourself then write them the next day if they're still just as.. virulent
Believe me, I've felt this way about Blizzard for quite a while now. In fact, since last time they pulled this kinda shit. Licensing... Hah. Miserable twats.
On November 14 2012 18:45 konadora wrote: some mod please post this on the front page
this atrocity needs to be publicised
Can we not have a bunch of SC2 users in this thread? Their stupidity and immaturity shits on us more than help...
ahem.. just in case some SC2 users who feel sympathetic DO make their way over, let's be on our best behavior... no need for BW vs SC2 animosity here... it's an entirely separate issue so we'd just be spitting in our faces by belittling SC2 and its fans..
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
Yea, given my current irate emotional state your seeing the nastier side of me.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach.
My point here is It literally doesn't matter what blizzards statement is. There isn't anything they can say other than "oops, wrong tournament" that could make the situation acceptable. It's a massive dick move no matter which way you slice it. This is a pretty damn big deal for the BW community, and in this case its moderately analogous to questioning people for cursing out their sister's rapist face to face. Yes, that's overly dramatized, but it's pretty analogous. BW really is that kind of meaningful for many of us here and this is a serious, serious blow.
Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW
Not reallty.
FUCK BLIZZARD,
Yep.
"we don't want SC2 fanboys in here"
Not neccessarily
FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD.
Yep
So mature. So manner.
I agree, but I don't really except manner or maturity here. If you do I really believe your dramatically underestimating the emotional involvement so many of us have in the game.
All you do is fucking sue, sue, sue, without realizing the opportunity of marketing. You can still fucking sell BW if you want. I'll buy that sucker just cause I already love the ICCup version. But HOTS? Fuck no. I play the Beta and it's fucking worse than COD on a Nintendo 64 using a PS2 controller.
I agree with the general sentiment in this thread and L_Master's post.
In the past I said I'll be buying HotS and LotV no matter what. But if Blizz is going to (further) openly antagonize BW's existence for no reason I really feel like crap supporting them.
Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Is there any way we can get in touch with Sonic personally? Does he speak any English? I would like to at the very least express how grateful I am for all he's doing, and beyond that to see if there's any way I can help out.
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
He wasn't doing that. He was just using the words you had written to say how he felt, not imply that you were on the "fuck blizz" bandwagon
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
And you should keep out of thread. Try imagining what it is for us. Cutting the only existing semi-pro tournament out, is like the worst possible thing to happen. This is real drama and needs to be rant about. Not stupid stuff like "Oh no Destiny said a bad word on his stream", which was like an ultimative shittrain...
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
I don't see fuck sc2 anywhere else, though
You should probably re-read the thread then.
outside the first and second page..and mostly it was 1 or 2 people...
On November 14 2012 19:16 ImbaTosS wrote: Is there any way we can get in touch with Sonic personally? Does he speak any English? I would like to at the very least express how grateful I am for all he's doing, and beyond that to see if there's any way I can help out.
I'm sure there are plenty of bilinguals on TL who would be more than willing to translate your message, including myself
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
On November 14 2012 19:16 ImbaTosS wrote: Is there any way we can get in touch with Sonic personally? Does he speak any English? I would like to at the very least express how grateful I am for all he's doing, and beyond that to see if there's any way I can help out.
I'm sure there are plenty of bilinguals on TL who would be more than willing to translate your message, including myself
Is there a definite way to get it to him personally?
On November 14 2012 19:16 Glioburd wrote: Oh no I'm so disappointed... I feel bad for the organizers... Fuck you blizzard, really... It's even not a good move for them by staining more their reputation.
Just 5 words :
On November 14 2012 19:16 Alasper wrote: FUCK BLIZZARD FUCK SC2 BLA.
Way to take a small portion of my post and put it out of context. You're as sad as all the other witch hunters in this thread.
I don't see fuck sc2 anywhere else, though
You should probably re-read the thread then.
HOW DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW ANGRY THIS MAKES PEOPLE???? Oh yeah, that's right, because you've only been on the measly esports bandwagon for about five minutes, and already you think people should listen to your half-baked opinions on important, inflammatory topics. + Show Spoiler +
On November 14 2012 19:16 ImbaTosS wrote: Is there any way we can get in touch with Sonic personally? Does he speak any English? I would like to at the very least express how grateful I am for all he's doing, and beyond that to see if there's any way I can help out.
I'm sure there are plenty of bilinguals on TL who would be more than willing to translate your message, including myself
I know he reads teamliquid, I think he has an TL account too....
On November 14 2012 19:16 ImbaTosS wrote: Is there any way we can get in touch with Sonic personally? Does he speak any English? I would like to at the very least express how grateful I am for all he's doing, and beyond that to see if there's any way I can help out.
I'm sure there are plenty of bilinguals on TL who would be more than willing to translate your message, including myself
Is there a definite way to get it to him personally?
On November 14 2012 19:16 ImbaTosS wrote: Is there any way we can get in touch with Sonic personally? Does he speak any English? I would like to at the very least express how grateful I am for all he's doing, and beyond that to see if there's any way I can help out.
I'm sure there are plenty of bilinguals on TL who would be more than willing to translate your message, including myself
I know he reads teamliquid, I think he has an TL account too....
I would loooooooooooove to send him a little PM expressing my gratitude
This should not only be featured but deserves a massive news post picture and graffitied blizzard people/logos. Justa disgrace, plain and simple. Maybe if sc2 felt half as exciting and well-planned as bw, and I'm confident that I'm not donning rose-coloured lenses when I make that observation. Ugh, why would you do this? (Rhetorical)
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
Ok. This is actually irritating me more than it ought to. Talk about arrogance. You pop in here all high and mighty saying what the BW forum is like these days. Actually, the BW subforum has been pretty upbeat and cheerful these days. You'd see more SC2 bashing in LR threads and the HotS subforum than you did in the BW subforum. The SC2 vs BW thing had kinda faded even. It was reasonably peaceable and forward looking.
There was hope. Things were picking up. We had new tournaments and old players coming back. And then this comes crashing down. A stake into these new found dreams. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, you show up at a gathering where news has just arrived of someone dear who might not make it.
And then you have the audacity to come in here and tell us we should take the high road. That this is the reason you don't like the BW subforum? Rain at a funeral man. Rain at a funeral.
This thread is not representative of the current state of BW subforums, nor will it be representative of it in the future. We're not even steamed about SC2 or SC2 fans. It's all about Blizzard.
I probably shouldn't have replied to that and I don't want to rabble. But there it is.
Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
On November 14 2012 16:46 BLinD-RawR wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen would you please join me in the attempt to make the Biggest fuck you to Blizzard in Internet History?
FUCK OFF BLIZZARD!
Oh fuck yeah I do. What the fucking fuck blizzard, you want me to not buy any games from you again ever? I was fucking looking forward to this and you have nothing better to do than fuck brood war after already forcing star 2 on kespa? It's ok that you think that your sad excuse of a brood war successor should be played by everyone and their mothers, but please let me fucking watch brood war, because thats what I fucking love doing. WTF is wrong with you people half of china plays your games pirated in pc bangs, maybe you should put more effort into doing something about that and less about fucking what is left of the greatest esports game of all time.
And just for the record, yeah I play star 2, yeah I enjoy it, yeah I watch it too, but watching Brood War is just the best thing to watch and I was really looking forward to the rest of SSL, and lets be honest brood war is by far the better game.
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I think you are correct in your assessment of the situation. Not 100% sure, but my impression is that if he lower it then he would be able to continue as planned.
These licenses are standard though. And while the timing seems a bit suspect, Blizzard don't *really* deserve a big fuck you from the community. BW is simply being treated as if it were another ESPORT title owned by Blizz (i.e. the $5k limit is imposed). Sonic just wasn't aware of this, it's tough to blame him for the situation though because it isn't the most obvious thing in the world esp. given BWs past and no previous issues.
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I think you are correct in your assessment of the situation. Not 100% sure, but my impression is that if he lower it then he would be able to continue as planned.
But why now out of all moments, there was an announcement and partnership months before the finals, it's just makes me angry...
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I think you are correct in your assessment of the situation. Not 100% sure, but my impression is that if he lower it then he would be able to continue as planned.
But why now out of all moments, there was an announcement and partnership months before the finals, it's just makes me angry...
Yes the timing is very poor, but Blizz Korea are known for being notoriously slow with these things. Innocent mistake or intentional blow? It's difficult to tell. I really hope that things can be worked out, even if it means Sonic is capped at 5k for a while.
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
Go fuck a rake blizzard, and leave bw alone. It poses no threat to you anyways. Also doesnt all this bullshit cost more than they actually would make for blizzard?
BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT ONLINE TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
Last Revised July 27th 2010
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In such an event, all rights granted under this Agreement to You shall immediately and automatically expire, and You shall cease all exercise of any rights granted under this Agreement, including without limitation the Tournaments and use of materials that use Blizzard’s trademarks or copyrighted content.
6. Miscellaneous.
All costs, stamp duties, taxes and other similar levies arising from or in connection with the conclusion of this Agreement shall be borne by You. Neither party shall be liable for any delay in the performance of its duties or responsibilities contained herein that result from any cause beyond its reasonable control or caused by acts of God, acts of civil or military authorities, fires, strikes, floods, epidemics, governmental rules or regulations, terrorism, war, riot, delays in transportation or shortages. Blizzard’s relationship with You during the term of this Agreement will be that of an independent contractor. Failure to enforce any rights hereunder shall not constitute a waiver of those rights in the future or any other rights. If any provisions of this Agreement are invalid under any applicable statute or rule of law, they are, to that extent, deemed omitted, and the balance of this Agreement will be enforceable in accordance with its terms. This Agreement may not be modified or changed except by an instrument in writing executed by both parties. In the event of litigation between the parties hereto, the prevailing party shall be entitled to recover reasonable attorney’s fees in addition to other relief as the court may award. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the law of the State of California, except for its conflict of laws provision, and all legal actions related to this Agreement shall be filed in Federal or State court in Los Angeles, California. This Agreement contains the entire understanding between the parties with respect to the subject of this Agreement supersedes all previous written or oral negotiations, commitments and undertakings related thereto. Sections 3, 4, and 6 shall survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement.
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
On November 14 2012 19:50 Skeggaba wrote: Go fuck a rake blizzard, and leave bw alone. It poses no threat to you anyways. Also doesnt all this bullshit cost more than they actually would make for blizzard?
On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote: There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
...
* (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea;
On November 14 2012 19:54 BLinD-RawR wrote: I'm most worried about this lawsuit on Nexcom/afreeca
BTW its $5000 not $500
Im trying to tell ppl that its actually $500 arvickhero cleared it up theres seperate terms for scbw and sc2... it may also be seperate for blizzard korea and blizzard any other part of the world? not sure
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote: There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
...
* (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea;
~_~
It says the license is specifically for SC2:WoL though. It would be nice if we could do something like make a donation to Sonic for license fee.
On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote: There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
...
* (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea;
~_~
It says the license is specifically for SC2:WoL though. It would be nice if we could do something like make a donation to Sonic for license fee.
On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote: There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT ONLINE TOURNAMENT AGREEMENT
Last Revised July 27th 2010
1. Grant of Tournament License.
With regards to your request to host a tournament on the Battle.net® service that features Blizzard’s StarCraft® II: Wings of Liberty™ software (the “Game”), Blizzard Entertainment, Inc., a Delaware corporation (“Blizzard”), hereby grants, to you the a non-exclusive, royalty free, non-transferable, license and right to use and display the Game for an online tournament subject to Your adherence to the following terms and conditions: * (a) The Tournament must be free to enter; * (b) You may not charge any fees of any kind to watch the Tournament; * (c) You may not accept advertising revenue of any kind in association with your hosting of the Tournament, nor can you accept funds or prizing from sponsors of the Tournament in excess of $5,000.00 USD in the aggregate for all Tournament sponsors; * (c) The Tournament must be limited to 500 players or less; * (d) You shall not alter or modify any part of the Game for any reason; * (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea; * and (f) it must be a requirement for your tournament that all entrants in the Tournament must be adults in their country of residence, or minors over the age of 13 with written permission from their parents to participate in the Tournament.
You understand and agree that You will responsible for all aspects of the Tournament, including without limitation: * (a) drafting of all rules, policies, and procedures which will govern the Tournament (the “Rules”); * (b) ensuring that all entrants are fully informed of the Rules; * (c) awarding all prizes to the winners of the Tournament; * (d) securing the receipt all applicable government approvals, licenses and permits necessary to organize the Tournament and exercise any and all of the rights granted to You by Blizzard hereunder; * and (e) avoiding any deceptive, misleading or unethical trade practices.
2. Use of Blizzard’s Trademarks.
Additionally, Blizzard hereby grants, and You hereby accept, a limited, royalty free, non-exclusive license to utilize the Blizzard’s trademarks, logos, and copyrighted content associated with the Game in advertisements, posters, flyers, and websites related to the Tournament, subject to Your adherence to Blizzard’s Trademark and Copyrighted Content Acceptable Use Guidelines, available at http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html. Note that you may not issue a press release using Blizzard’s name, trademarks or referencing the Game without Blizzard prior approval. Should you wish to have Blizzard review your proposed press release, you may email your request to pr@blizzard.com.
3. Ownership.
Blizzard Entertainment owns and shall retain all proprietary rights in the Game and the Blizzard Intellectual Property, and You agree that it will not at any time during or after this Agreement assert or claim any interest in or do anything that may adversely affect the validity or enforceability of Blizzard Entertainment’s rights in Game and/or the Blizzard Intellectual Property (including, without limitation, any act, or assistance to any act, which may infringe or lead to the infringement of any copyright in the Game). Blizzard Entertainment shall own all proprietary rights in all Marketing Materials that contain Blizzard Intellectual Property.
4. Representations, Warranties, and Indemnity.
You hereby represent and warrant that: * (i) You have the full right and power to enter into this Agreement; * (ii) You have the necessary rights to host the Tournament; * and (iii) You will comply with all laws related to its performance hereunder.
You agree that you shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless Blizzard, and its affiliated companies (including, without limitation, Blizzard) and their respective employees, directors and officers from and against any and all expenses, judgments, awards, fines, and fees (including reasonable attorneys’ fees) solely with respect to any third party claims or actions brought against them which claims or actions arise out of the Tournament or any breach or alleged breach of any of Your representations, warranties or obligations hereunder. The obligations described in this section shall survive the termination or expiration of this Agreement.
5. Term.
This Agreement shall commence on the date that the license is sent to you at your email address and thereafter shall remain in effect (unless and until earlier terminated as set forth in this Section) for one (1) year (the “Term”). Blizzard may terminate this Agreement immediately in the event that You: * (a) commit a material breach any of representation, warranty or obligation made by You hereunder; * (b) make or attempt any unauthorized assignment for the benefit of creditors, file any petition for reorganization, readjustment or rearrangement of Your business or affairs under the laws of any jurisdiction relating to relief of debtors, bankruptcy or insolvency; * (c) suffer a receiver or trustee to be appointed for its business or property, or (c) discontinue Your business, or be adjudicated bankrupt or insolvent.
In such an event, all rights granted under this Agreement to You shall immediately and automatically expire, and You shall cease all exercise of any rights granted under this Agreement, including without limitation the Tournaments and use of materials that use Blizzard’s trademarks or copyrighted content.
6. Miscellaneous.
All costs, stamp duties, taxes and other similar levies arising from or in connection with the conclusion of this Agreement shall be borne by You. Neither party shall be liable for any delay in the performance of its duties or responsibilities contained herein that result from any cause beyond its reasonable control or caused by acts of God, acts of civil or military authorities, fires, strikes, floods, epidemics, governmental rules or regulations, terrorism, war, riot, delays in transportation or shortages. Blizzard’s relationship with You during the term of this Agreement will be that of an independent contractor. Failure to enforce any rights hereunder shall not constitute a waiver of those rights in the future or any other rights. If any provisions of this Agreement are invalid under any applicable statute or rule of law, they are, to that extent, deemed omitted, and the balance of this Agreement will be enforceable in accordance with its terms. This Agreement may not be modified or changed except by an instrument in writing executed by both parties. In the event of litigation between the parties hereto, the prevailing party shall be entitled to recover reasonable attorney’s fees in addition to other relief as the court may award. This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with the law of the State of California, except for its conflict of laws provision, and all legal actions related to this Agreement shall be filed in Federal or State court in Los Angeles, California. This Agreement contains the entire understanding between the parties with respect to the subject of this Agreement supersedes all previous written or oral negotiations, commitments and undertakings related thereto. Sections 3, 4, and 6 shall survive any expiration or termination of this Agreement.
This says Blizzard Online Tournament, would it still be in effect for SSL?
I mean, in SC2 every bullshit they do is online, but BW actually has LAN and the SSL has been played offline (at least partially).
On November 14 2012 20:00 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: Go host finals in Pyongyang, fuck these capitalist sharks! ...ahhhh sigh...so sad really, fuck you blizzard...
Bizarre move from Blizz. Feel that they should've pointed out the lack of licensing but then drastically lowered the fee or just supported it or just turned a blind eye totally.
This game is why many of us bought SC II, sure, I don't follow the BW scene very closely anymore, but BW is what got me into RTS games in the first place.
I really wish Blizzard would be more a part of the community. I wanna hear them defending themselves at this, now we've just heard 1 side of the story and terrible posts like...
Ladies and Gentlemen would you please join me in the attempt to make the Biggest fuck you to Blizzard in Internet History?
What in the actual fuck, Blizzard? Just what are they thinking when they pull out this stupid crap? SSL is the rebirth of BW, it's glorious return to very roots and Blizzard steps in and kills it? And they are to sue Afreeca?
Just... WHAT THE FUCK BLIZZARD STOP TRYING TO KILL BW. YOU ALREADY DID IT ONCE, DON'T FINISH THE JOB.
On November 14 2012 16:46 BLinD-RawR wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen would you please join me in the attempt to make the Biggest fuck you to Blizzard in Internet History?
On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote: There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
...
* (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea;
~_~
It says the license is specifically for SC2:WoL though. It would be nice if we could do something like make a donation to Sonic for license fee.
This isn't a bad idea.
Also this, it's a way we could help provided Blizzard lowers the major-entertainment broadcasting company level fee.
On November 14 2012 20:23 ErAsc2 wrote: I really wish Blizzard would be more a part of the community. I wanna hear them defending themselves at this, now we've just heard 1 side of the story and terrible posts like...
First I apologize once again for my carelessness, and disappointing everyone. I will acquire a license properly, wrap things up properly by holding the final, and make sure something like this doesn't happen again. I've never broke a license rule in Starcraft II...."
안녕하세요. BJ 소닉입니다. 우선 경솔했던점에 대해. 그리고 실망하셧던분들에게 다시 한번 죄송합니다. 다시 한번 라이센스 결승전 제대로 따서. 결승전 진행 마무리 잘하고. 추후 이런일 없게 만들도록 하겠습니다. 스타크래프트2 같은 경우는.라이센스 어긴적도 없고. 위반했던적 없습니다....
Context wise, people on PGR21.com are getting on Sonic for being incompetent, saying there's almost no chance he didn't foresee this kind of issue given his position and the history of BJs and Blizzard games in Korea. Ofc, most people agree that Blizzard's ee han timing here was pretty awful.
Oh come on blizz. Your sc2 changes have been for the better recently but your PR department didnt realize fucking with the korean bw scene is stupid? Get the hell over yourselves, or wtleast coract sonic after a finals
Why does anyone want to support Blizzard when they do stuff like this? What do we do? Do we create a BW replica so we can have tournaments? This is really sad. I Hope TL puts this on the front page... we can't tolerate this shit.
Fuck man... Kim Carrier should get OGN to boycott SC2 unless Blizzard shuts up about fucking licenses for BW.
Omgggg Fuckers!! Never ever ever again will I buy any of your games! And I will tell all my friends that all your future games are pure shit. Just like you are Blizzard!
Damn son, how could anyone "get on" Sonic for this? The man is BW Jesus. He has my full support and I'm happy to donate money to him, I hope he knows how appreciated his efforts are!
The only positive is that now even the most benighted SC2 TL kiddie cannot deny Blizzard's intention is to destroy every last remnant of competitive BW.
On November 14 2012 20:33 Waxangel wrote: Sonic posted on PGR21.com
"Hello, this is BJ Sonic.
First I apologize once again for my carelessness, and disappointing everyone. I will acquire a license properly, wrap things up properly by holding the final, and make sure something like this doesn't happen again. I've never broke a license rule in Starcraft II...."
안녕하세요. BJ 소닉입니다. 우선 경솔했던점에 대해. 그리고 실망하셧던분들에게 다시 한번 죄송합니다. 다시 한번 라이센스 결승전 제대로 따서. 결승전 진행 마무리 잘하고. 추후 이런일 없게 만들도록 하겠습니다. 스타크래프트2 같은 경우는.라이센스 어긴적도 없고. 위반했던적 없습니다....
Context wise, people on PGR21.com are getting on Sonic for being incompetent, saying there's almost no chance he didn't foresee this kind of issue given his position and the history of BJs and Blizzard games in Korea. Ofc, most people agree that Blizzard's ee han timing here was pretty awful.
Korean people are really weird if they attack him and saying that he is incompetent, and i tought some people here are the retarded ones
Yeah no shit. Pretty sure if we want BW to come back / remain alive the best option is to support Sonic regardless of whether or not he should have seen it coming. It's not like all the people bitching are doing anywhere near as much for BW in 2012.
A few thousand hardcore Brood War fans watching a tournament without Blizzard getting paid will sure take away a lot of potential money Blizzard could make!!!!!!!
AND
Of course they have to wait until the FUCKING FINALS, just like they waited until 2007 before doing anything about Brood War on TV.
FUCK
YOU
They're not even making money of this. All they're accomplishing, is killing what's left of StarCraft 1.
If this was a StarCraft 2 tournament, it would be allowed to run on its own, because it has a prize pool under $5000. But because it's Brood War, it has different rules. This OBVIOUSLY means that they just want to kill the game. Otherwise, it would have the same rules. These rules aren't even COMPARABLE to each other. And if you think I'm yelling because I'm using caps, it's because I am.
mod:Edited out the LOLs because they were obnoxious and I didn't want to warn
Fuck the games industry and fuck Blizzard. They did the exact same thing with OGN (although, obviously, they didn't release a statement saying licensing issues were the reason because that was part of the Blizzard-OGN/Kespa agreements).
They kill off the scene of their most loyal fan base to make sure people buy their newest expansion at £30/copy. Fuck I hope this gets a ton of negative publicity on gaming sites or that's a huge fucking injustice there.
edit: also just read the part about afreeca getting hit with copyright lawsuit. nobody can say this isn't hard evidence they're trying to kill off the BW scene to make way for SC2.
It's a 14 year old game, the proscene is already dead, the community has decreased to about a 10th, but we're still alive, we still had something... Fuck you Blizzard for kicking a man that's down.
On November 14 2012 21:41 SnowFantasy wrote: Good.
If not even Blizzard defends their Intellectual Property, who will?
Estoppel.
People are acting like the letter of the law complies with its spirit. My entire ire with how Blizzard handled the KesPA lawsuit/SC2 transition was how blatant their change in conduct was, once they decided to establish a professional SC2 scene in Korea. This is especially apt with the licensing. I dunno how much Blizz pays its lawyers, but its right to sue on the basis of copyright should have been exercised long ago, and should have been challenged successfully on the basis of the principle of estoppel. They had YEARS to file a claim. They KNEW about the pro-scene. The fact that they acted only when the commercial interest peaked shows their blatant disregard of their own rights. In other words, they sat on their rights, and only acted (extremely quickly, I might add) when they felt that they wanted to get in on the pie.
And now this? After Browder and Co. go on about co-existence? To be sure, Sonic had a hand in this fiasco as well, since he probably knew about the new licensing issues, but again, why now? Why the timing before the finals? Why at the point where the Korean SC2 scene is stagnating and BW is starting to pick up again (albeit underground)?
Sigh.
Extremely disappointed at the pattern of behavior of Blizzard. It shows, once again, how little they understand the Korean proscene, and how much they underestimate the power of corporate "goodwill" in a fragile industry such as this.
On November 14 2012 22:10 moochu wrote: Doesn't mean much but boycotting the rest of this GSL.
This whole site should boycott Blizzard, it would force them to be not idiots. Who knows, they might release BW-HD if they see how fucked they will get, or at least make Void a game worthy of the name Starcraft... but I don't see that happening soon, too much money at stake. Now that I think about it if TL hadn't have hyped SC2 that much maybe... *sigh*
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
Ok. This is actually irritating me more than it ought to. Talk about arrogance. You pop in here all high and mighty saying what the BW forum is like these days. Actually, the BW subforum has been pretty upbeat and cheerful these days. You'd see more SC2 bashing in LR threads and the HotS subforum than you did in the BW subforum. The SC2 vs BW thing had kinda faded even. It was reasonably peaceable and forward looking.
There was hope. Things were picking up. We had new tournaments and old players coming back. And then this comes crashing down. A stake into these new found dreams. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, you show up at a gathering where news has just arrived of someone dear who might not make it.
And then you have the audacity to come in here and tell us we should take the high road. That this is the reason you don't like the BW subforum? Rain at a funeral man. Rain at a funeral.
This thread is not representative of the current state of BW subforums, nor will it be representative of it in the future. We're not even steamed about SC2 or SC2 fans. It's all about Blizzard.
I probably shouldn't have replied to that and I don't want to rabble. But there it is.
When you phrase it that way of course it will sound melodramatic. The situation is that someone didn't handle the licensing correctly and that's mostly it. Just because it fits in the preconceived ideas of the posters who hate Blizzard doesn't excuse half of the posts being "!@#$ blizzard" and the other half being "SC2 is !@#$ing awful". It's not a good idea to post on a forum when you're highly emotional, I mean, people get banned for posting drunk.
Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote: Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote: Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down.
I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want?
On November 14 2012 22:33 SagaZ wrote: Blizzard's greed have no limit and that's pretty sad
also anyone that cares about this should boycott HotS; the only way to show you don't support this company's actions is with your wallet.
sure, sc2 isnt good no matter what add on it is going to have. that's some fundamental problems, it cant be solved unless the whole game is to be remade. if bw cant broadcast in KOR then i will watch cosl.. china seems to be the last heaven of bw?
On November 14 2012 16:46 BLinD-RawR wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen would you please join me in the attempt to make the Biggest fuck you to Blizzard in Internet History?
FUCK OFF BLIZZARD!
Might as well join in the rallying cry. This is an incredibly cruel and retarded move from Blizzard.
On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote: Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down.
I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want?
I see the word WHOLE STORY and I think yeah probably I could get the whole story if I was sonic best friend .
Definitely not the whole story here .. especially when the terms could(sonic didn't even release the letter or email he received) be really picky,meticulous or what should I call it overzealous ? This are my assumptions but what the hell, for the record we are talking about blizzard here.
Hi, Its BJ Sonic First off, I apologize for having to deliver sad news. The feeling of having reached my limit.. makes me very discouraged. As I was preparing this finals, I was just as if not more so uneasy and in anticipation. Currently, streaming starcraft in restricted. The finals and the starleague to come are put in a diffcult situation. I spoke with Blizzard Korea, In order to broadcast I need buy a license to host the finals and one to broadcast. The conditions are also very meticulous/picky. Only two the until the final and I get this call.. I am currently in the process of negotiating. I most likely won't get an approval by this weekend.. The starleague has to be canceled for now.. I want to host the finals as just an individual broadcasting jockey (I think he means not tied to Afreeca/Nowcom) but no real message is getting through. There are already contracts that are in place, and big losses in funds and to top it off this.. My heart aches. I am in the process of tirelessly looking for some kind of solution. Having found a location for the finals, everything was set up and managed so well but this situation happened.. I am really in a state of shock. It's going to take an even bigger amount of funds to buy licenses for Brood War. It's become incredibly difficult to even broadcast Brood War on my Afreeca stream. As a broadcasting jockey, I'm not sure how to even handle this situation.. Just..sigh.. First, I will continue to give it my all.. I will continue to keep you all updated. Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown.. In order to obtain a Blizzard License it'll take approximately 2 weeks.. it would be impossible to obtain a license within this week (for the finals).
To begin with, there's the issue of obtaining 2 licenses.. I will continue to update you all.
Until I obtain a license for the finals I am not able to do anything. Whether its the SinbalFarm Offline or the Online Broadcast..
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
More information, hearing all sides? Maybe Blizzard Korea was somewhat mischaracterized or misunderstood? Maybe Blizzard Korea acted without consent or without even informing Blizzard HQ? Maybe the real issue lies deeper and the license trouble is only a surface issue? Maybe the SSL was organized very slopplily without getting Blizzard's confirmation to run this large tournament at all and now the tournament blames Blizzard for their own faults?
Or maybe Blizzard does consist of acclowns who think that with OSL transistioned to SC2, it's time to shut down any effort to run a good BW tourey? We don't know unless we get more information.
I still don't understand how people can be so blind against this shit (I don't mean TL people, but people in general). Once something is "on the computer" it miraculously becomes "intelectual" property, not just property.
I am using this paralel everytime in the discussion with IP fanatics and all the time their arguments are just blabbering - how comes that rallye organizators don't have to pay to the car manufacturers licence fees for using their product in broadcasting? It's only because it is "physical", whereas things like SC2 are "intelectual". But this difference makes no sense in today's world, when almost everything that matters is online.
Laws that would end this mess need to be expediently enacted across the worlds. It needs to be clearly said that you have the right to BUY software and other "intelectual" property as much as you have the right to buy physical objects - and that you can to what you please with them afterwards. Otherwise we are just going to be slaves of big comapnies forever.
I am not advocating software piracy. Selling unauthorized copies of software should be punishable. But using the software in however matter I please should NOT.
Well by the looks of this Blizzard's only fuckup was the timing, Sonic on the other hand should have known about the licensing requirement before he began. Either he made a major blunder or tried to slip the tournament without paying, hoping blizzard wouldn't notice/care. Not as simple as fuck blizzard imo.
On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote: Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down.
I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want?
I see the word WHOLE STORY and I think yeah probably I could get the whole story if I was sonic best friend .
Definitely not the whole story here .. especially when the terms could(sonic didn't even release the letter or email he received) be really picky,meticulous or what should I call it overzealous ? This are my assumptions but what the hell, for the record we are talking about blizzard here.
My assumption is that it's closer to Blizzard's rules for SC2 tournaments. Totalbiscuit had to shut down an SC2 tournament because Blizz wanted half the ad revenue. Maybe Blizzard wanted a licensing fee, or their logo all over everything, or just want BW tournaments to be cleared by them in advance to protect the IP.
Maybe Blizz Korea are a bunch of douchebags, and everyone on the anger train is right. But I doubt Blizz shut the tournament down solely because they didn't want it going on.
Licensing is an absolute sham. It continues to blow my mind that courts have been hoodwinked into buying this nonsense about "intellectual property" hook, line and sinker.
On November 14 2012 19:52 Pro7ecT wrote: There is the "Blizzard Entertainment Online Tournament Agreement", it's a little bit an older version, but anyways..
...
* (e) You may hold the Tournament in any country other than the Republic of Korea;
~_~
It says the license is specifically for SC2:WoL though. It would be nice if we could do something like make a donation to Sonic for license fee.
This isn't a bad idea.
I'm just posting to say that I really agree with this idea. I think it would be great to set up a donation to help Sonic pay the license fee. While I'm not entirely sure how much the license would cost, it would still be nice if we saw something like this so we could help him even if it was in the very slightest.
Can't they at least try go to Mike Morhaime and ask for a big discount/waive or something while negotiating future licensing? Edit: They aren't currently enemies, are they?
I'm down with TL helping him pay the license fee. I'm still a student and I don't make money yet, but I'm willing to give all the real money I got/will get from D3 lol. It's not that much, but I really want to help too.
I was thinking about tweeting Mike Morhaime, or sending an email, but im close to 100% he would never read it or just way too late for him to do anything.
On November 14 2012 23:20 Darksoldierr wrote: I was thinking about tweeting Mike Morhaime, or sending an email, but im close to 100% he would never read it or just way too late for him to do anything.
On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote: Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down.
I believe there are separate licensing conditions for Korea (compared with the rest of the world.)
On November 14 2012 22:26 Ribbon wrote: Did Blizz actually shut down the SSL because they don't want BW tournaments at all, or is it because they wanted a licensing fee for a BW tournament the same way they do for an SC2 tournament?
I know BW vs SC2 is a popular thread to have, but Blizz has fucked over SC2 tournaments as well (Totalbiscuit).
What did Blizzard actually want, to resolve the licensing issues?
They have separate licensing terms for BW and SC2.
On November 14 2012 19:54 ArvickHero wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:47 JohnChoi wrote:
On November 14 2012 19:38 Asha` wrote: Does anyone know more details about the exact nature of the licensing stuff?
There has been a long standing stipulation that tournaments with a bigger than $5k prize pool (that SSL does have this season) have to negotiate licensing terms with Blizzard and I wonder if this is what has come up
You are probably aware that the standard tournament license has a $5000 limit on it. Go any higher than that and you have to arrange things with Blizzard, which as I've explained before, usually involves them taking a share of your ad revenue, which for this tournament would hurt us more than it would help.
Different games of course but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard's licensing is the same across both. I believe this is the first season of the SSL to clear the $5k prize pool mark and perhaps this is what he's run into issues with?
Not sure if it is plausible but maybe he could just lower the prize pool to the $5k limit in the short term if this might be the case. I'm sure the players would understand and be sympathetic.
I read a post on sonics page saying hte limit is $500 prize pool and he surpassed that amount on multiple tourneys..
last (event, not official .. like 6.5) SSL had a sponsor and 3k prize pool which is well over 500 .. along w/ many of his other SSLs and BJ Ranking tourneys
So Blizz has separate rules for SC2 and BW for prize pool limits.
That seems weird. Blizz is aware of Team Liquid, and therefore the BW forum, and yet the ISL wasn't shut down.
I'm not saying Blizzard aren't being dicks here, but I'd like to know the whole story before I get on the bandwagon. What did Blizzard want?
I see the word WHOLE STORY and I think yeah probably I could get the whole story if I was sonic best friend .
Definitely not the whole story here .. especially when the terms could(sonic didn't even release the letter or email he received) be really picky,meticulous or what should I call it overzealous ? This are my assumptions but what the hell, for the record we are talking about blizzard here.
My assumption is that it's closer to Blizzard's rules for SC2 tournaments. Totalbiscuit had to shut down an SC2 tournament because Blizz wanted half the ad revenue. Maybe Blizzard wanted a licensing fee, or their logo all over everything, or just want BW tournaments to be cleared by them in advance to protect the IP.
Maybe Blizz Korea are a bunch of douchebags, and everyone on the anger train is right. But I doubt Blizz shut the tournament down solely because they didn't want it going on.
I wanted to stay out of this thread but the amought of missinformation in this thread is atrocious.
TB's shoutcraft invitational was never shut down by Blizzard, because it was always on the 5k limit that Blizzard allows for tournements without licence(for SC2). Infact if i recall correctly he was granted a licence some time ago to hold a tournement above that after some work he did for Blizzard(can't rememper what).
What put Shoutcraft invitational on hold was and is still to this day the immence oversaturation of the SC2 scene. There havn't been an appropiate weekend all year.
On November 14 2012 23:20 Darksoldierr wrote: I was thinking about tweeting Mike Morhaime, or sending an email, but im close to 100% he would never read it or just way too late for him to do anything.
We could complain on the Bnet forums.
Personally i never was fan of whining on official forums, dont think so you could get far even with a well written complaiment. And i'm not even sure there is a forum for BW tournaments and / or anyone would read it in time
On November 14 2012 22:59 Waxangel wrote: The timing by Blizzard was absolutely terrible.
But there is no doubt that Sonic is at fault as the tournament organizer for not taking care of such an important issue beforehand.
Sonis is at fault but all things considered, Blizzard is asking for a shitstorm by blocking finals of a league. It's not like they didn't know until know that it exists and it's not like they would suffer significant lose if they would approach Sonic only after the final. The timing is terrible but what's worse it's probably deliberately terrible.
Can someone get in contact with sonic so we can start some kind of donation? Maybe TL can set something up on a this website, or we can use gofundme, etc
I am requesting a 2 day ban. User was temp banned for this post.
lol???
but so sad
People are passionate about BW enough that some of us view this as absolutely despicable to do on Blizzard's part while also acknowledging that Sonic fucked up on not making sure he had it completely cleared with them. But if it comes out that he was being misdirected or delayed in any way even if he had applied early for this, it would only make Blizz's position much worse. Frankly, Blizz Korea also hitting on Afreeca for restreamers/BJs is a very bad business move for them.
This is absolutely ridiculous. I would be shocked if we don't see an official statement from Blizzard explaining why they are doing this. There has to be more to the story than we are being told.
Also, Blizzard's legal department has a history of shoot first, ask questions later when it comes to copyright lawsuits. The World of Starcraft custom game was given a cease-and-desist and threatened with a lawsuit, only to have the cease-and-desist lifted once it was actually reviewed.
I am requesting a 2 day ban. User was temp banned for this post.
lol???
but so sad
Lol he did it to save himself from a worse ban than he requested so he didnt rage on the forums smart choice :D
Also Kespa was running without a blizzard license for the longest time I thought... Never played BW much besides the campaign after I knew about the game and still kind of find this as an asshole thing to do to the tournament organizer. Works probably alot of hours and pours so much money into it and then this come along.. Hope you guys are able to solve the problem and continue on with the tournament. GLGL :D
it's not just the league, I can hypothetically understand that (especially since future SSL had a like 15k sponsor lined up; it's big money), but if nowcom got a lawsuit then wtf can they do? "no one stream brood war anymore kk thanks"?
just fucking kicking the community down for no gain.
I'm completely not surprised blizzard would do this kind of shit, but that really really sucks. I don't know why they couldn't just wait until this season is over and then make him get a permit. Activision probably has a lot to do with this.
It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
On November 15 2012 01:03 IntoTheWow wrote: I don't even watch BW anymore and I'm mad.
As a Blizzard 'customer' I can say I read this while playing Heart of the Swarm and to be honest I can't make myself hit that match making button right now. I feel queasy. I can't not trust my gut and my gut says goodbye Blizzard.
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
Optimism my friend . Like I said HIGHLY unlikely but all I can do is hope.
On November 15 2012 01:30 dragonsuper wrote: Good move blizzard , i hope that now this can wake up all the people who hasn't understood yet WHAT blizzard IS NOW.
Well i always knew Mike is a full geek inside and good to see its showing. As for the whole issue, i think Blizzard's korean department took the rules a bit more strictly or just wanted to be an overall dickhead
Would be cool if you could stop this blizzard hate train.
I just wanted to point out this isnt the first tournament hosted with a sponsor and a prize pool over $500.. Starcraft on afreeca just came to be. Zergman was saying yesterday how afreeca broadcasts of starcraft began from one or two streamers who liked playing starcraft and wanted to broadcast it. And sonic always did mention the game is so old that even the proscene is gone, he just wantes to revive the game he loved so much. Sure sonic messed up he should known the rules but I mean sonic is not a poor man but to see him go through that much trouble over licensing fees just shows how big of a price tag Blizzard put on this thing.. they also want one license for finals and another to broadcast. Two licenses to purchase for an individual. and on top of that instead of nowcom paying any fees to allow starcraft to be broadcasted on afreeca, they are considering not allowing starcraft streams. if the profits/viewers < Licensing Fees just how much is Blizzard charging?!.. I can only assume its quite a hefty fee -_- I just hope blizzard can try and work with sonic.. sonic understands he made a mistake he even posted saying he will resolve this issue as professionally as possible.. but in the event the finals are only able to happen AFTER Pusan goes to army I cant help but rage then >
I wonder how much is this licensing fee thingy is ..... and for what duration does it cover if we pay xxxx of amount ? 3 months ? 6 months ? 1 year ? .Besides that what was Kim Carrier reaction to the cancellation of the finals because of the licensing issue ?. I am also curious if the law suit is really going to be employed against afreeca and if they do on what basis are they suing afreeca for ? Individuals Playing broodwar a 14 year old game on afreeca is copyright infringement ?
On November 15 2012 01:51 Sawamura wrote:Individuals Playing broodwar a 14 year old game on afreeca is copyright infringement ?
Yeah, because in most places copyright lasts 70 years after the death of the author(s) (...or forever and a day) and is ridiculously broad in what it covers. No, it doesn't make sense in my opinion but that's the world we live in...
On November 15 2012 01:51 Sawamura wrote: I wonder how much is this licensing fee thingy is ..... and for what duration does it cover if we pay xxxx of amount ? 3 months ? 6 months ? 1 year ? .Besides that what was Kim Carrier reaction to the cancellation of the finals because of the licensing issue ?. I am also curious if the law suit is really going to be employed against afreeca and if they do on what basis are they suing afreeca for ? Individuals Playing broodwar a 14 year old game on afreeca is copyright infringement ?
Companies can claim copyright infringement if you stream their games, yeah. Nobody actually does this, generally. But that's the easiest claim to get things taken down with. Even if the legal waters are muddy, the threat of lawsuit is good enough to get most websites to comply.
Remember when Blizzard were nice people who actually cared about their games, their players and their fans?
...
Me neither.
EDIT: If Mike Morhaime lives up to his tweets I'll partially retract the above statement. I still think there's loads of douchebags at Blizz, but in this case it might've only been Blizzard Korea who fucked up big time. Of course sonic isn't completely blameless either, but the fact that Blizzard goes after a small tournament in a relatively small niche is absolutely disgusting, regardless of the circumstances. Even more so when they're stopping the finals of the tournament in question.
On November 15 2012 01:37 Darksoldierr wrote: Well i always knew Mike is a full geek inside and good to see its showing. As for the whole issue, i think Blizzard's korean department took the rules a bit more strictly or just wanted to be an overall dickhead
Would be cool if you could stop this blizzard hate train.
Tbh that's probably exactly what it was. Blizzard Korea just abiding by the guidelines set, SSL not contacting them for licensing issues, Mike Morhaime learning about it and reaching out to get it fixed.
On November 15 2012 01:51 Sawamura wrote: I wonder how much is this licensing fee thingy is ..... and for what duration does it cover if we pay xxxx of amount ? 3 months ? 6 months ? 1 year ? .Besides that what was Kim Carrier reaction to the cancellation of the finals because of the licensing issue ?. I am also curious if the law suit is really going to be employed against afreeca and if they do on what basis are they suing afreeca for ? Individuals Playing broodwar a 14 year old game on afreeca is copyright infringement ?
Companies can claim copyright infringement if you stream their games, yeah. Nobody actually does this, generally. But that's the easiest claim to get things taken down with. Even if the legal waters are muddy, the threat of lawsuit is good enough to get most websites to comply.
Hmm interesting ...how about this ?
What if we are the owners of the game and that I mean purchase broodwar original copy and decided to stream it online ? I bought the game for the purpose of enjoying it and also as a legal owner of the game copy that I purchase . Do I have not the right to show my enjoyment to other users ?. Can that also constitute CI ?
On November 15 2012 01:51 Sawamura wrote: I wonder how much is this licensing fee thingy is ..... and for what duration does it cover if we pay xxxx of amount ? 3 months ? 6 months ? 1 year ? .Besides that what was Kim Carrier reaction to the cancellation of the finals because of the licensing issue ?. I am also curious if the law suit is really going to be employed against afreeca and if they do on what basis are they suing afreeca for ? Individuals Playing broodwar a 14 year old game on afreeca is copyright infringement ?
Companies can claim copyright infringement if you stream their games, yeah. Nobody actually does this, generally. But that's the easiest claim to get things taken down with. Even if the legal waters are muddy, the threat of lawsuit is good enough to get most websites to comply.
Hmm interesting ...how about this ?
What if we are the owners of the game and that I mean purchase broodwar original copy and decided to stream it online ? I bought the game for the purpose of enjoying it and also as a legal owner of the game copy that I purchase . Do I have not the right to show my enjoyment to other users ?. Can that also constitute CI ?
Depends on the country, I'd imagine. In America, at least, yeah. They can stop you from doing it under CI.
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
Optimism my friend . Like I said HIGHLY unlikely but all I can do is hope.
I do hope for the future of Brood War. I just don't hope that Blizzard will do anything for BW, because I know I would just get dissapointed.
They're threatening to stop the streaming of Brood War on Afreeca. Have they ever threatened Twitch to stop the streaming of StarCraft 2? StarCraft 2 is making more money from ad revenue than Brood War is, and it's still only Brood War they're going after.
In StarCraft 2, you don't have to pay Blizzard anything to run a tournament as long as the prize pool is less than or equal to $5000. But when it comes to Brood War, they're going after the SSL, which, I am quite certain, does not have a prize pool of more than $5000 (lol).
Tbh that's probably exactly what it was. Blizzard Korea just abiding by the guidelines set, SSL not contacting them for licensing issues, Mike Morhaime learning about it and reaching out to get it fixed.
I hope this is the case. But even if it is, why are the rules so much stricter for Brood War than they are for StarCraft 2? It makes no sense.
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
Optimism my friend . Like I said HIGHLY unlikely but all I can do is hope.
I do hope for the future of Brood War. I just don't hope that Blizzard will do anything for BW, because I know I would just get dissapointed.
They're threatening to stop the streaming of Brood War on Afreeca. Have they ever threatened Twitch to stop the streaming of StarCraft 2? StarCraft 2 is making more money from ad revenue than Brood War is, and it's still only Brood War they're going after.
In StarCraft 2, you don't have to pay Blizzard anything to run a tournament as long as the prize pool is less than or equal to $5000. But when it comes to Brood War, they're going after the SSL, which, I am quite certain, does not have a prize pool of more than $5000 (lol).
Tbh that's probably exactly what it was. Blizzard Korea just abiding by the guidelines set, SSL not contacting them for licensing issues, Mike Morhaime learning about it and reaching out to get it fixed.
I hope this is the case. But even if it is, why are the rules so much stricter for Brood War than they are for StarCraft 2? It makes no sense.
I just want to point out the prize pool is 1st: 4million won 2nd: 2 million won 3rd: 1 million won the total prize pool is 7 million won and that converts to roughly 6400USD.. but the terms for bw/korea have the limit at $500...
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
Optimism my friend . Like I said HIGHLY unlikely but all I can do is hope.
I do hope for the future of Brood War. I just don't hope that Blizzard will do anything for BW, because I know I would just get dissapointed.
They're threatening to stop the streaming of Brood War on Afreeca. Have they ever threatened Twitch to stop the streaming of StarCraft 2? StarCraft 2 is making more money from ad revenue than Brood War is, and it's still only Brood War they're going after.
In StarCraft 2, you don't have to pay Blizzard anything to run a tournament as long as the prize pool is less than or equal to $5000. But when it comes to Brood War, they're going after the SSL, which, I am quite certain, does not have a prize pool of more than $5000 (lol).
Tbh that's probably exactly what it was. Blizzard Korea just abiding by the guidelines set, SSL not contacting them for licensing issues, Mike Morhaime learning about it and reaching out to get it fixed.
I hope this is the case. But even if it is, why are the rules so much stricter for Brood War than they are for StarCraft 2? It makes no sense.
I just want to point out the prize pool is 1st: 4million won 2nd: 2 million won 3rd: 1 million won the total prize pool is 7 million won and that converts to roughly 6400USD.. but the terms for bw/korea have the limit at $500...
Very well.
But still:
1 Korea has stricter rules compared to the rest of the world. (The ISL's had more than $500 in their prize pools, and they got away with it).
2 Brood War has stricter rules compared to StarCraft 2. (500 instead of 5000)
3 They waited until the finals before doing anything.
4 They are sending (or at the very least publicly stated that they are considering sending) copyright notices to Brood War streams on Afreeca, but have never sent in such a notice to any private StarCraft 2 stream, despite StarCraft 2 generating more ad revenue from streaming.
So they're still assholes.
Also, damn, $6400 prize pool. I know this is old news, but I'm impressed and surprised.
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
Optimism my friend . Like I said HIGHLY unlikely but all I can do is hope.
I do hope for the future of Brood War. I just don't hope that Blizzard will do anything for BW, because I know I would just get dissapointed.
They're threatening to stop the streaming of Brood War on Afreeca. Have they ever threatened Twitch to stop the streaming of StarCraft 2? StarCraft 2 is making more money from ad revenue than Brood War is, and it's still only Brood War they're going after.
In StarCraft 2, you don't have to pay Blizzard anything to run a tournament as long as the prize pool is less than or equal to $5000. But when it comes to Brood War, they're going after the SSL, which, I am quite certain, does not have a prize pool of more than $5000 (lol).
Tbh that's probably exactly what it was. Blizzard Korea just abiding by the guidelines set, SSL not contacting them for licensing issues, Mike Morhaime learning about it and reaching out to get it fixed.
I hope this is the case. But even if it is, why are the rules so much stricter for Brood War than they are for StarCraft 2? It makes no sense.
I just want to point out the prize pool is 1st: 4million won 2nd: 2 million won 3rd: 1 million won the total prize pool is 7 million won and that converts to roughly 6400USD.. but the terms for bw/korea have the limit at $500...
Very well.
But still:
Korea has stricter rules compared to the rest of the world. (The ISL's had more than $500 in their prize pools, and they got away with it).
Brood War has stricter rules compared to StarCraft 2. (500 instead of 5000)
They waited until the finals before doing anything.
So they're still assholes.
Also, damn, $6400 prize pool. I know this is old news, but I'm impressed and surprised.
haha vodtoastive been saying this same thing since page 1 im not trying argue with you just pointing out some facts ive said it before in previous posts but this isnt the first tournament with a sponsor and a prize pool over 500$. its just the timing blizzard decided to intervene.. just days before a pretty major finals and the they simultaneously slam down TWO licenses that you need to pay for.. i dont think i could ever think oh blizzars found out just now its just bad timing.. i cant help but think this is all planned out.. it just straight up looks like they are trying to prevent sonic from carrying out a bw final T-T it makes me so sad
On November 15 2012 00:26 Pucca wrote: It is interesting to me that Blizzard is still actually aware of Brood War. Just to turn a optimistic stand point out there they might have something planned? I highly doubt it but at least they are aware of BW.
Also remember Blizzard are the people who made us Brood War...
ROTFLMFAO
They don't have anything planned for Brood War, please wake up or stop smoking that shit.
As for the people who made Brood War - they are no longer at Blizzard. This is a fact. They moved on to two seperate studios, one of which is ArenaNet, the creators of Guild Wars.
Do you really think the same people who made the mediocre games World Of WarCraft and Diablo 3 are the same people who made WarCraft II, StarCraft, and Diablo 1 and 2?
Optimism my friend . Like I said HIGHLY unlikely but all I can do is hope.
I do hope for the future of Brood War. I just don't hope that Blizzard will do anything for BW, because I know I would just get dissapointed.
They're threatening to stop the streaming of Brood War on Afreeca. Have they ever threatened Twitch to stop the streaming of StarCraft 2? StarCraft 2 is making more money from ad revenue than Brood War is, and it's still only Brood War they're going after.
In StarCraft 2, you don't have to pay Blizzard anything to run a tournament as long as the prize pool is less than or equal to $5000. But when it comes to Brood War, they're going after the SSL, which, I am quite certain, does not have a prize pool of more than $5000 (lol).
Tbh that's probably exactly what it was. Blizzard Korea just abiding by the guidelines set, SSL not contacting them for licensing issues, Mike Morhaime learning about it and reaching out to get it fixed.
I hope this is the case. But even if it is, why are the rules so much stricter for Brood War than they are for StarCraft 2? It makes no sense.
I just want to point out the prize pool is 1st: 4million won 2nd: 2 million won 3rd: 1 million won the total prize pool is 7 million won and that converts to roughly 6400USD.. but the terms for bw/korea have the limit at $500...
Very well.
But still:
Korea has stricter rules compared to the rest of the world. (The ISL's had more than $500 in their prize pools, and they got away with it).
Brood War has stricter rules compared to StarCraft 2. (500 instead of 5000)
They waited until the finals before doing anything.
So they're still assholes.
Also, damn, $6400 prize pool. I know this is old news, but I'm impressed and surprised.
haha vodtoastive been saying this same thing since page 1 im not trying argue with you just pointing out some facts ive said it before in previous posts but this isnt the first tournament with a sponsor and a prize pool over 500$. its just the timing blizzard decided to intervene.. just days before a pretty major finals and the they simultaneously slam down TWO licenses that you need to pay for.. i dont think i could ever think oh blizzars found out just now its just bad timing.. i cant help but think this is all planned out.. it just straight up looks like they are trying to prevent sonic from carrying out a bw final T-T it makes me so sad
Thanks for letting me know about the prize pool. I like being aware of facts.
First, let me skip the flame part, my English is not good enough for it.
Second, I stay away from calling SC2 the reason for it, Blizzard has definitely stronger competitors ATM, and should care for them. There are lot of brainless games with millions of supporters they should consider dangerous to their simplified stuff. + Show Spoiler +
About a year ago I was considering a purchase of SC2. Not any more, they are going no place, I would like to find myself in. This is unfortunately the general market trend. Quite a long time ago, top players were making unbelievable things with Quake 3 Railguns, while Auto-Aim was considered a hack and insta-banned. Now it is a standard. Let me quote famous Polish poet:
...A beautiful church But [there is] no God inside
Third there is a lot of job for legal department here. But first there must be a community to be a contracting party. And we should make one.
Finally, I wonder how much are the full and exclusive owner rights for StarCraft Brood War?. Perhaps Blizzard does not deserve to have it anymore? How much does it cost to make it public property - once and forever? To wipe out Blizzard name from the box? It is neither supported, nor developed. So perhaps they may like to sell it once and for all?
wait, you're telling me, blizzard aren't dicks and this probably happened outside of the scope of Blizzard HQ, and probably didn't realize how important/big this tournament was and how shitty the timing was because they're legal department != their esports department!
On November 15 2012 01:47 Bagi wrote: The hyperbole in this thread is just astounding. Are you people capable of rational thought?
You are poking the bear here sir.
This tournament is the jewel in the crown of the amateur scene revival for this game. Blocking it would be a very bitter blow, probably even more so than the enforced switch of Proleague and OSL to sc2.
Blizzard Korea has been battling KESPA for close to ten years. I imagine they've got pretty specific guidelines on how to deal with it. Maybe if the weeping vaginas in this thread had any common sense they'd realize that Blizzard reckon it's pretty cool their old game is still so loved and played.
TL again proves that it is the common sense of a confused pygmy regarding BW.
Also, to be honest, if this is the reaction they get for a minor licencing issue (they happen all the time) then I'd be of the opinion that I WOULD kill BW just to irritate people who clearly hate their company. Frankly, I wouldn't do anything for any of you.
On November 15 2012 03:09 Evangelist wrote: Blizzard Korea has been battling KESPA for close to ten years. I imagine they've got pretty specific guidelines on how to deal with it. Maybe if the weeping vaginas in this thread had any common sense they'd realize that Blizzard reckon it's pretty cool their old game is still so loved and played.
TL again proves that it is the common sense of a confused pygmy regarding BW.
yea .... that's why they had forced shutdowns of BW leagues, and are sending in a copyright notice for BW streams on Afreeca (but not SC2). Yea they really think BW still being played and loved is soooo awesome.. yep.
It'd be cool if Mike fixed things up in the end, but in the end Blizzard is still a massive dick for trying to shut it down to begin with.
On November 15 2012 03:09 Evangelist wrote: Blizzard Korea has been battling KESPA for close to ten years. I imagine they've got pretty specific guidelines on how to deal with it. Maybe if the weeping vaginas in this thread had any common sense they'd realize that Blizzard reckon it's pretty cool their old game is still so loved and played.
TL again proves that it is the common sense of a confused pygmy regarding BW.
What is your response to my arguments?
1 Korea has stricter rules compared to the rest of the world. (The ISL's had more than $500 in their prize pools, and they got away with it).
2 Brood War has stricter rules compared to StarCraft 2. (500 instead of 5000)
3 They waited until the finals before doing anything.
4 They are sending (or at the very least publicly stated that they are considering sending) copyright notices to Brood War streams on Afreeca, but have never sent in such a notice to any private StarCraft 2 stream, despite StarCraft 2 generating more ad revenue from streaming.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
for all of you "oh-so-rational" people high and mighty about how we're being irrational and our reaction is unwarranted, judging our community .. let me requote Falling here
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
Seriously, we, the fans are obliged to show our power. I want Blizzard to know that I still love watching professional and semi-professional BroodWar, and I am even the heretic to PLAY BROOD WAR.
On November 15 2012 03:22 TarsolyGer wrote: I WANT A PRO-BROODWAR ONLINE PETITION!!
Seriously, we, the fans are obliged to show our power. I want Blizzard to know that I still love watching professional and semi-professional BroodWar, and I am even the heretic to PLAY BROOD WAR.
Please, do something
i think a petition would be a great idea to get the message to blizzard
On November 15 2012 03:22 TarsolyGer wrote: I WANT A PRO-BROODWAR ONLINE PETITION!!
Seriously, we, the fans are obliged to show our power. I want Blizzard to know that I still love watching professional and semi-professional BroodWar, and I am even the heretic to PLAY BROOD WAR.
Please, do something
i think a petition would be a great idea to get the message to blizzard
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
i want to point out too that its not really a couple days before the tourney. if this happened before 7th ssl began id be bummed out that it has to be delayed but it wouldve been less of a shock. they decided to intervene right before the climax of the tournament, right before the finals and use that opportunity to slam down two licenses at once.. it just doesnt seem right. to me its clear blizzard knew of this and attacked when it would hurt the most.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
On November 15 2012 03:22 TarsolyGer wrote: I WANT A PRO-BROODWAR ONLINE PETITION!!
Seriously, we, the fans are obliged to show our power. I want Blizzard to know that I still love watching professional and semi-professional BroodWar, and I am even the heretic to PLAY BROOD WAR.
Please, do something
i think a petition would be a great idea to get the message to blizzard
What makes you think they would care?
i think even if they dont necessarily care... wouldnt it at least be bad for blizzards public image? i just want our voice to be heard
On November 15 2012 03:17 ArvickHero wrote: for all of you "oh-so-rational" people high and mighty about how we're being irrational and our reaction is unwarranted, judging our community .. let me requote Falling here
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed too in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
On November 15 2012 03:12 Evangelist wrote: Also, to be honest, if this is the reaction they get for a minor licencing issue (they happen all the time) then I'd be of the opinion that I WOULD kill BW just to irritate people who clearly hate their company. Frankly, I wouldn't do anything for any of you.
I really liked your post, because despite trying to insult us little, confused pygmys from your high horse you managed to hit the nail on the head. They are - in fact - not doing anything for any of us right now. If that is the case, because they feel offended by our opinions (which are at least partially backed by facts) or not I can't say. You missed one point though. This is not a minor licensing issue as this is not a minor tourney. It's the only one we have at that level of play. Many of us posters even acknowledge that they are somewhat right to do something like this; the timing is what we take issue with.
As it was said before: I'm shocked that these newsposts do not surprise me anymore. I am already actively boycotting blizzard. I suggest you do the same.
The way I see they had over a month to shut this down but waited until days before the finals to be as harmful as possible. They probably didn't care until Sonic announced it would be in an auditorium casted by Kim Carrier. Blizzard must think the SSL has potential to bring Brood War back into the mainstream other wise they wouldn't do this. That explains why they never said a peep about ISL and other foreign tournaments with over $500 in the prize pool. I hope over 1000 people show up for the finals.
On November 15 2012 03:09 Evangelist wrote: Blizzard Korea has been battling KESPA for close to ten years. I imagine they've got pretty specific guidelines on how to deal with it. Maybe if the weeping vaginas in this thread had any common sense they'd realize that Blizzard reckon it's pretty cool their old game is still so loved and played.
TL again proves that it is the common sense of a confused pygmy regarding BW.
User was temp banned for this post.
Aw, man. I sent him a PM asking him to respond to my arguments. Now I'll never know whether he was going to say something, or just ignore me.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
Because they've had past history specifically in south korea regarding IP rights problems, namely Kespa? Because they just went through a long and bad PR period with Kespa simply to get their rights to scbw recognized? So the rules were obviously put in place to keep KESPA in check, but this was unfortunately a byproduct. Blizz KR is obviously told to be more strict about IP respects because this is literally the ONLY region where they had issues with IP rights, and thus were probably told to be extra careful, and like most people in business, and like I stated before, their LEGAL DEPARTMENT NOT THEIR ESPORTS DEPARTMENT, probably was informed of the SSL late because it wasn't a major tournament, and like you stated was merely an amateur league, but when it became more popular with the finals looming, and with bigger casters attending, it obviously created some buzz, and forced the legal team to look into it. They obviously aren't the PR team either, and don't understand how this is gonna negatively impact both the SSL and blizzard. Hence why once Mike Morhaime was informed, he immediately tried to resolve the issue, because none of the strictness that occurs in KR is about hurting the little guy, but about protecting blizz from Kespa regaining it's unilateral power again.
Regarding your points of brood war streams, i still haven't seen it happen, you're merely throwing speculation about them, and chances are, it's again, the blizz kr team trying to be harsh to make sure people don't try to circumvent the IP rights that blizz has fought so hard to obtain in SKR. I still see afreeca streaming bw, and i haven't yet heard of anyone being shut down or charged for it, just like blizz hasn't done so to sc2, why? because they don't want to stop people from streaming even if it technically is within their power, so you're attacks on that are still largely unwarranted. My guess is the threats are merely to keep people from trying to host their own kespa style league/tourney without respecting blizz's IP. Chances are, it's just like sc2's tournament scene in that if you're going to host a tournament, you fill out a simple form, and request permission, if prize money is less than what they deem is 'significant', then you can proceed, but even small tournaments are supposed to request permission. Yes, scbw's significant $ pool is set much lower than the sc2 scene, but this number was set for a reason, who knows why, maybe it's something kespa negotiated into the final agreement with blizz to make sure they didn't have major competition for other tournaments once kespa was given 'rights' to host scbw tournaments (which they ended up stopping eventually regrettably). But all of this is still jsut speculation from BOTH sides because we don't know the details. The simple truth is, YOU ASK FOR PERMISSION IF YOU ARE GOING TO HOST A TOURNAMENT.
On November 15 2012 04:05 Zhromar wrote: Always nice to see how childish the BW community is. Blizzard is on it, stop QQ'ing about your dead game and live with it.
On November 15 2012 03:17 ArvickHero wrote: for all of you "oh-so-rational" people high and mighty about how we're being irrational and our reaction is unwarranted, judging our community .. let me requote Falling here
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
He didn't say he wasn't going to shut down the tournament, he said they were "reaching out to them to give them permission to continue", which is changes ... nothing? Technically, they've already been doing that since Sonic was already (trying to) engage in the process of obtaining a license, but that won't change the fact that the SSL Finals for this weekend has been cancelled, or that they're ordering the shut down of BW streams on Afreeca unless Nowcom pays up some nice money for a BW license.
Oh yea, and Sonic is most likely going to lose a lot of money because of this, when he wasn't even close to making a profit from this to begin with. Great job Blizzard, no wonder why you're being viewed so negatively!
Yes Sonic has admitted fault for having no license, but based on past precedence where he exceeded the prize pool limit multiple times w/o a license, who can blame him? Blizzard truly chose some awesome timing for their attack lol.
when was the last time he held the SSL? if it was before the Kespa drama came to a close, than his precedence was based on old policies.
And you're reallly trying to stretch the hate here, if Morhaime is trying to get it fixed, it's trying to get it fixed, not just 'lol were just trying to force the shut down', if it means trying to get him so he doesn't have to cancel it or get him licenses expedited for free, than they'll do it, blizzard doesn't want to kill anything, anyone who's ever seen the actual leadership of blizzard and interacted with them, understand this, but it always is easier to just get out the pitchforks.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
Yes, scbw's significant $ pool is set much lower than the sc2 scene, but this number was set for a reason, who knows why, maybe it's something kespa negotiated into the final agreement with blizz to make sure they didn't have major competition for other tournaments once kespa was given 'rights' to host scbw tournaments (which they ended up stopping eventually regrettably). But all of this is still jsut speculation from BOTH sides because we don't know the details. The simple truth is, YOU ASK FOR PERMISSION IF YOU ARE GOING TO HOST A TOURNAMENT.
You have a good point about the streaming copyright notice. If nothing comes of it, it probably means that Blizzard Korea wanted to do it, and Blizzard told them not to. Also, it is possible that the reason Blizzard took no action against other, non korean tournaments that had over $500 in the prize pool, is that it was Blizzard Korea's doing.
However, you have no real argument about BW tournaments only being allowed $500. None at all. You just say "It probably has something to do with KeSPA". Are you really going to assume that, despite there being a rule like this, Blizzard is innocent?
I will only forgive them if they change the rule.
We also don't know if they will actually let Newcom (the owners of Afreeca) keep Brood War streams without paying a license. Until they let them do that (Like they let Twitch have SC2 streams without paying), I'm going to reserve judgement on this issue. You should as well. Don't just assume Blizzard is right.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
The Teamliquid Brood War community immediately assuming the worst and jumping on a hate-fuelled bandwagon to engage in their favourite pastime of shitting on Blizzard without knowing the full story? SAY IT AIN'T SO.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I can assure you, all of our pitchforks will be retained until the commencement of the sospa finals without the interference of Activision Blizzard and it's affiliates. Furthermore, for even making the assertion that they at Activision Blizzard have even the slightest notion of retarding Sonic's endeavors, I strongly advise the populace of the internetworked community of players to be outraged with nothing less than civil unrest.
To all the faithful, and to Sonic himself, godspeed! May your efforts not be in vain, but triumph over tyranny; yes, tyranny. With the acquisition of capital as their one and only goal, even to slither as a hydralisk over the skulls of millions, corporatism must be met not with complacency, but with contention. This "Blizzard" you see, this swarm, ironically, on the eve of the release of their latest title, has lost their heart, and soon, their legacy will be null and void - but only if our weight tips the lever over the fulcrum in our favour! What you are seeing now is a monopoly, but with nary a mustachioed carefree aristocrat prancing happily across a game board, but only the malicious intent that a monopoly can yield, for which other RTS can rise to the challenge of competing with the brainchild of this latest incarnation of their syndicate? 'Tis an oligopoly of the lowest regard, slithering it's vile slime-seeped tentacles into every facet of the competitive spirit of their hungry consumers, preying on their hopes and dreams, while complicit in their desire to sink their talons into the fat cow of tournament-play - not for love of the game, but for love of the specie - all whilst fielding special rules for a single nation while ignoring the rest of the world, while optimizing their titles to best suit the least talented among gamers, while exercising the rule of law at their convenience, and while pretending to be sympathetic to their customers, when their history tells quite a different story. "PR" is quite simply just "PR", and nothing more; every syllable uttered is to quiet dissent and court the wallets and bank accounts of their most trusting Ovis Aries.
This is not, if you will, a question of legality, but a question of ethics. The very brightest minds of our litigators can yield the most preposterous exposition of cacophonous blather to bend the rule of law into their favor, but that will never make it right. This dissent, you see, is not a result of thoughtlessness, but a thoughtful repudiation of corporate greed. The rage of the people here is only matched by the love we have in our hearts for something we've become ostensibly passionate about, and that love cannot be refuted by legality. Therefore, I think it necessary, and right, to not only wield a pitchfork, but possibly also a torch, and perhaps a battalion of men to hold a battering ram, to knock down the door of this loveless, awful, and greedy campaign against one of the most selfless and noble causes to grace our doorstep in quite some time.
edit:
PM -
Original Message From Grumbels: it's really embarrassing if you write so pretentiously and then confuse its and it's
I like SC2, but I also still love BW. I just don't get Blizzard here. This is just awful and a terrible move. Hopefully, there'll be a non-retarded solution to this.
Do we even know what the 'cost' of these licenses are? I know Sonic has stated he will pay for them out of pocket, but he's never presented us with any proof that they're asking for anything or sizeable. Just like the 'license' for running small tournaments in sc2, is just an email after filling out the form, it's possible, his is not very expensive, hell, even in the blizzard/kespa negotiations, it was a simple 1$ fee just so blizzard could be aware of the tournaments being run. We're vastly speculating on a lot of stuff with rage/hate filled eyes, so can we calm down a bit and see what is happening before we jump all over Blizzard when they're obviously trying to rectify this.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
I really doubt the official terms would have that kind of typo i dont think its safe to assume such a thing.. and its. ot just the broadcasting online they also require you to purchase a license for the offline finals event which is indeed a LAN which means they are targetting both the online broadcast and the LAN aspect. The reason people are saying bw streams are also affectex is due to nowcom receiving a copyright which means bw streams would have to stop.. of course im only basing this off of what one streamer (Zergman) said and he is no lawyer or anything.. but the possibility of bw streams being forced to shutdown is still possible it really depends on how nowcom handles it. Plz read the other posts before you start posting stuff like this... it only further stirs up needless arguments.
On November 15 2012 04:16 Kazeyonoma wrote: when was the last time he held the SSL? if it was before the Kespa drama came to a close, than his precedence was based on old policies.
And you're reallly trying to stretch the hate here, if Morhaime is trying to get it fixed, it's trying to get it fixed, not just 'lol were just trying to force the shut down', if it means trying to get him so he doesn't have to cancel it or get him licenses expedited for free, than they'll do it, blizzard doesn't want to kill anything, anyone who's ever seen the actual leadership of blizzard and interacted with them, understand this, but it always is easier to just get out the pitchforks.
During and after KeSPA drama, Sonic's leagues have been going on for a while now.
Again, Morhaime's words don't change anything from the current situation, because that's what the situation already was before he even tweeted that message. But I guess we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it (as in, not having to wait at least 2 weeks for the license, or having to pay a lot of money, or retracting the copyright notice from Nowcom regarding BW or at least extending it to SC2, D3 and WoW).
On November 15 2012 04:35 Kazeyonoma wrote: Do we even know what the 'cost' of these licenses are? I know Sonic has stated he will pay for them out of pocket, but he's never presented us with any proof that they're asking for anything or sizeable. Just like the 'license' for running small tournaments in sc2, is just an email after filling out the form, it's possible, his is not very expensive, hell, even in the blizzard/kespa negotiations, it was a simple 1$ fee just so blizzard could be aware of the tournaments being run. We're vastly speculating on a lot of stuff with rage/hate filled eyes, so can we calm down a bit and see what is happening before we jump all over Blizzard when they're obviously trying to rectify this.
While we dont know what the cost of these licenses, we have good reason to believe its a fairly sizeable sum. :/
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
I'm going to wait and see what happens. Blizzard haven't given me much of a reason to believe in them, but they haven't quite given me enough reason to condemn them yet, either (Because of Morhaime's tweet)
There are things Blizzard could do that would wash them free, but I don't think they're going to do them. If they do, I'll be proven wrong.
You seem to be defending Blizzard way too much, for no logical reason. The posts above me already have good points, and I'm not going to repeat their arguments.
Blizzard may act rightful on elgal terms but it just doesnt make any sense from a PR perspective, as SSL was the only real thing going on creating still positive PR for BW. Im pretty disappointed in Blizzard and i dont feel to give in to people claiming here we should give in just because is right in legal terms.
Basically SC2 fans judging the BW community for reacting so passionately. I'd just like to see how they would react if their game was in this position
Yeah. I mean, I guess if you just exist in the context of the SC2 community then the last couple months have been swept with community hyper-drama. So people are now on high-alert for a hint of pitch-fork shenanigans.
But the situation in BW is vastly different and quite a few comments in here come off as highly insensitive as to the current state of BW and the potential growth that we were just starting to see.
I already stopped buying their products after they shut down proleague. I mean seriously, Blizzard. BW viewers are the minority. This is like seeing some old guy walking down the street giving away ice cream to little kids and you just take your big fuckin' SUV and slam into all of them. And then when you're driving down the street a week later you think "Hey let's see how the old man is doing at the hospital." And then you go to the hospital and unplug him from life support.
Basically SC2 fans judging the BW community for reacting so passionately. I'd just like to see how they would react if their game was in this position
Yeah. I mean, I guess if you just exist in the context of the SC2 community then the last couple months have been swept with community hyper-drama. So people are now on high-alert for a hint of pitch-fork shenanigans.
But the situation in BW is vastly different and quite a few comments in here come off as highly insensitive as to the current state of BW and the potential growth that we were just starting to see.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
I really doubt the official terms would have that kind of typo i dont think its safe to assume such a thing.. and its. ot just the broadcasting online they also require you to purchase a license for the offline finals event which is indeed a LAN which means they are targetting both the online broadcast and the LAN aspect. The reason people are saying bw streams are also affectex is due to nowcom receiving a copyright which means bw streams would have to stop.. of course im only basing this off of what one streamer (Zergman) said and he is no lawyer or anything.. but the possibility of bw streams being forced to shutdown is still possible it really depends on how nowcom handles it. Plz read the other posts before you start posting stuff like this... it only further stirs up needless arguments.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.
The policy being different between BW and SC2 is in writing and is unfair, if enforced that way. The problem with everyone's complaints is that it hasn't been enforced unfairly. A tournament that would be against the terms for either SC2 or BW was to be shut down. You're free to speculate all you like as to why the actual policy isn't being enforced for BW, but the fact is that until a tournament with a <$5000 prize pool is shut down, there isn't actually anything to bitch about and this isn't applicable to this situation.
Unless I'm mistaken, Nowcom runs Afreeca who would be providing streaming for SSL. If I'm not mistaken about that, don't you think that it's at least possible that Blizzard Korea is actually making sure that they don't stream the event if they try to put on the SSL anyway, since they can't really do much about them playing the event in-private with LAN? Especially since the two sources are not first-party sources?
I get that you have a source that you believe, but don't tell me that I have to accept hearsay as fact in order to post.
Oh blizzard, you'll simply never stop being a shit tier company will you? This makes me so damn happy that SC2 is the shit game it is.
Congrats blizz, you killed the first and only true eSport to have existed to this date, and now that it is raising on its own without any help, you just can't stand having it be while your "main" game keeps shrinking and shrinking globally because it sucks.
You guys are acting like this is a simple issue, it is more complicated. I don't hate Blizzard but I'm sure they thought long and hard about this, so I don't question their decision. Blizzard knows more about this than we do, so don't hate on them.
On November 15 2012 05:49 123Viril69 wrote: You guys are acting like this is a simple issue, it is more complicated. I don't hate Blizzard but I'm sure they thought long and hard about this, so I don't question their decision. Blizzard knows more about this than we do, so don't hate on them.
If your don't know shit about the situation please don't post like this. If you do, please again shed some light on us living under the rock...
Edit:
This is a shit move by Blizz and we as the community of BW lovers have every right to not see this through!
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
I really doubt the official terms would have that kind of typo i dont think its safe to assume such a thing.. and its. ot just the broadcasting online they also require you to purchase a license for the offline finals event which is indeed a LAN which means they are targetting both the online broadcast and the LAN aspect. The reason people are saying bw streams are also affectex is due to nowcom receiving a copyright which means bw streams would have to stop.. of course im only basing this off of what one streamer (Zergman) said and he is no lawyer or anything.. but the possibility of bw streams being forced to shutdown is still possible it really depends on how nowcom handles it. Plz read the other posts before you start posting stuff like this... it only further stirs up needless arguments.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.
The policy being different between BW and SC2 is in writing and is unfair, if enforced that way. The problem with everyone's complaints is that it hasn't been enforced unfairly. A tournament that would be against the terms for either SC2 or BW was to be shut down. You're free to speculate all you like as to why the actual policy isn't being enforced for BW, but the fact is that until a tournament with a <$5000 prize pool is shut down, there isn't actually anything to bitch about and this isn't applicable to this situation.
Unless I'm mistaken, Nowcom runs Afreeca who would be providing streaming for SSL. If I'm not mistaken about that, don't you think that it's at least possible that Blizzard Korea is actually making sure that they don't stream the event if they try to put on the SSL anyway, since they can't really do much about them playing the event in-private with LAN? Especially since the two sources are not first-party sources?
I get that you have a source that you believe, but don't tell me that I have to accept hearsay as fact in order to post.
Umm ya tbh i dont understand what your saying but it seems as though your saying ssl will be able to commence as a private lan event without streams on afreeca but im trying to tell you blizzard requires a license to just host the finals in the first place regardless of whether its an offline lan or an online thing.
License fees were never a good idea anyway. The industry really isn't that profitable, and it's not like esports takes money away from Blizzard, so they shouldn't need to take money for licensing. I think the idea of intellectual property is you don't want people stealing your property. That's not at play here. It's just money grubbing. In the old days, any revenue that came from ad packages/etc. was just reinvested into the scene so the scene didn't collapse and the viewer still got to watch without PPV. Giving Blizzard a part of that revenue serves no purpose. What exactly can Blizzard do with it that an enterprising community that built a scene from the ground-up can't? Take it to pay the esports team's salary and pay for Blizzcon/WCS? The entire esports scene is free advertising for the game industry. I don't know why Blizzard can't just leave it at that. Taking money out of the scene doesn't help the scene, and it probably only marginally helps Blizzard because if the scene isn't left in the sandbox to grow to its full potential, then that free advertising isn't being as effective.
These industries aren't even that relevant to each other. One is sell more copies of the latest (most expensive) game. The other is about getting people watching and playing a game over the long term. I love these games, but if Blizzard's bubble ever bursts it will be very satisfying to behold.
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
I really doubt the official terms would have that kind of typo i dont think its safe to assume such a thing.. and its. ot just the broadcasting online they also require you to purchase a license for the offline finals event which is indeed a LAN which means they are targetting both the online broadcast and the LAN aspect. The reason people are saying bw streams are also affectex is due to nowcom receiving a copyright which means bw streams would have to stop.. of course im only basing this off of what one streamer (Zergman) said and he is no lawyer or anything.. but the possibility of bw streams being forced to shutdown is still possible it really depends on how nowcom handles it. Plz read the other posts before you start posting stuff like this... it only further stirs up needless arguments.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.
The policy being different between BW and SC2 is in writing and is unfair, if enforced that way. The problem with everyone's complaints is that it hasn't been enforced unfairly. A tournament that would be against the terms for either SC2 or BW was to be shut down. You're free to speculate all you like as to why the actual policy isn't being enforced for BW, but the fact is that until a tournament with a <$5000 prize pool is shut down, there isn't actually anything to bitch about and this isn't applicable to this situation.
Unless I'm mistaken, Nowcom runs Afreeca who would be providing streaming for SSL. If I'm not mistaken about that, don't you think that it's at least possible that Blizzard Korea is actually making sure that they don't stream the event if they try to put on the SSL anyway, since they can't really do much about them playing the event in-private with LAN? Especially since the two sources are not first-party sources?
I get that you have a source that you believe, but don't tell me that I have to accept hearsay as fact in order to post.
Umm ya tbh i dont understand what your saying but it seems as though your saying ssl will be able to commence as a private lan event without streams on afreeca but im trying to tell you blizzard requires a license to just host the finals in the first place regardless of whether its an offline lan or an online thing.
Third time is the charm.
We know that Blizzard has sent a cease-and-desist to the organizer to stop the event. If the organizer had chosen to ignore this and run the event anyway, there is nothing Blizzard Korea could do to physically stop them from playing the game, since BW can be played offline (not on Blizzard's servers). Yes, they can say they don't license the event and there would likely be legal action after the fact, but there is nothing Blizzard could do to stop the games from being played.
The only viable action to prevent them for putting on the event was to go after their medium of obtaining viewership (AfreecaTV) and prevent them from broadcasting it. If that is the case, maybe the reason for the legal action against Nowcom that we are hearing about from indirect sources is related to only broadcasting SSL, instead of BW in general.
We don't know much or have any reliable sources to know, so no one can logically make a judgment either way. It's possible this was a plot to stop BW from taking hold again in Korea and if you're cynical enough, you'll believe that regardless of facts. I prefer to wait for the facts to make my judgment.
On November 15 2012 04:22 Korelle wrote: The Teamliquid Brood War community immediately assuming the worst and jumping on a hate-fuelled bandwagon to engage in their favourite pastime of shitting on Blizzard without knowing the full story? SAY IT AIN'T SO.
oh come on
1. The blizz tweet did not exist yesterday when i read this 2. Blizz delays the only BW tourney right before a finals? Not only would attacking the bw tourney at all make anyone mad, but doing it before the finals? It should be something to be complied with eventually, not "as of now no more BW love blizz"
Blizzard korea is just a local department, but they have been struggeling with Kespa for years so noone in their right mind can blame them for being strict with their IP rights. Through i would say it would be fair to argue about their timing.
Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
I have no problem with the reaction, before the twitter post. Blizzard shut down something that you are passionate about and I would be pissed to in your shoes. But, you have a quote from the CEO of Blizzard directly saying that Blizzard isn't going to shut down this tournament. Outside of a few people trying to point it out to the masses, the reaction is exactly the same! The continued anti-Blizzard tone of this thread just shows how bitter and irrational that this community can be, and it isn't limited to the BW fans.
Allow me to quote myself.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Even if this was all Blizzard Korea's fault, and not Blizzard's (Intervening right before the finals rather than earlier, threatening with copyright notices against Brood War streams while leaving SC2 streams alone) Blizzard still instructed Blizzard Korea to do that shit.
And they still have the bullshit rules of treating Korea and the rest of the world differently when it comes to BW tournaments, and treating BW worse than SC2 when it comes to running tournaments.
Do you have any justification for this? If you don't, I'm going to continue thinking Blizzard are assholes. I don't see how they're not, but if you have arguments, let me know them, and if they are sound, I will change my mind.
So, you continue to prove my point.
First, different standards for BW and SC2 is irrelevant to the topic this thread is supposed to be about, which is SSL being shut down by Blizzard. SSL has a larger prize pool than is allowed for either BW or SC2, so it's not a relevant topic in this case.
Seeing as how no action had been taken at all until the finals, which as I stated above has too large a prize pool for either game, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that either $500 was a typo and should have been $5000 or that $5000 is the new standard that was set and hasn't been updated in the information provided? Essentially there is no proof that there is more restriction being placed on BW than SC2 in terms of prize money.
On the lawsuit topic, I'm ignorant of the Korean legal system and the source of the information stated that it was roughly translated and is not an official source but instead hearsay, but it seems possible to me that the "lawsuit" he was referring to might be similar to an injunction in the US legal system that would prevent the streaming service from broadcasting the event, which is the really the only control Blizzard can exert over BW, since it has LAN support. It seems reasonable to me that Blizzard Korea wasn't trying to stop BW streaming entirely, but just trying to stop this event from broadcasting while in violation.
I really doubt the official terms would have that kind of typo i dont think its safe to assume such a thing.. and its. ot just the broadcasting online they also require you to purchase a license for the offline finals event which is indeed a LAN which means they are targetting both the online broadcast and the LAN aspect. The reason people are saying bw streams are also affectex is due to nowcom receiving a copyright which means bw streams would have to stop.. of course im only basing this off of what one streamer (Zergman) said and he is no lawyer or anything.. but the possibility of bw streams being forced to shutdown is still possible it really depends on how nowcom handles it. Plz read the other posts before you start posting stuff like this... it only further stirs up needless arguments.
I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.
The policy being different between BW and SC2 is in writing and is unfair, if enforced that way. The problem with everyone's complaints is that it hasn't been enforced unfairly. A tournament that would be against the terms for either SC2 or BW was to be shut down. You're free to speculate all you like as to why the actual policy isn't being enforced for BW, but the fact is that until a tournament with a <$5000 prize pool is shut down, there isn't actually anything to bitch about and this isn't applicable to this situation.
Unless I'm mistaken, Nowcom runs Afreeca who would be providing streaming for SSL. If I'm not mistaken about that, don't you think that it's at least possible that Blizzard Korea is actually making sure that they don't stream the event if they try to put on the SSL anyway, since they can't really do much about them playing the event in-private with LAN? Especially since the two sources are not first-party sources?
I get that you have a source that you believe, but don't tell me that I have to accept hearsay as fact in order to post.
Umm ya tbh i dont understand what your saying but it seems as though your saying ssl will be able to commence as a private lan event without streams on afreeca but im trying to tell you blizzard requires a license to just host the finals in the first place regardless of whether its an offline lan or an online thing.
Third time is the charm.
We know that Blizzard has sent a cease-and-desist to the organizer to stop the event. If the organizer had chosen to ignore this and run the event anyway, there is nothing Blizzard Korea could do to physically stop them from playing the game, since BW can be played offline (not on Blizzard's servers). Yes, they can say they don't license the event and there would likely be legal action after the fact, but there is nothing Blizzard could do to stop the games from being played.
The only viable action to prevent them for putting on the event was to go after their medium of obtaining viewership (AfreecaTV) and prevent them from broadcasting it. If that is the case, maybe the reason for the legal action against Nowcom that we are hearing about from indirect sources is related to only broadcasting SSL, instead of BW in general.
We don't know much or have any reliable sources to know, so no one can logically make a judgment either way. It's possible this was a plot to stop BW from taking hold again in Korea and if you're cynical enough, you'll believe that regardless of facts. I prefer to wait for the facts to make my judgment.
ahhhh thats so much clearer thanks. i hope bw survives through this
On November 15 2012 03:09 Evangelist wrote: Blizzard Korea has been battling KESPA for close to ten years. I imagine they've got pretty specific guidelines on how to deal with it. Maybe if the weeping vaginas in this thread had any common sense they'd realize that Blizzard reckon it's pretty cool their old game is still so loved and played.
TL again proves that it is the common sense of a confused pygmy regarding BW.
1 Korea has stricter rules compared to the rest of the world. (The ISL's had more than $500 in their prize pools, and they got away with it).
2 Brood War has stricter rules compared to StarCraft 2. (500 instead of 5000)
3 They waited until the finals before doing anything.
4 They are sending (or at the very least publicly stated that they are considering sending) copyright notices to Brood War streams on Afreeca, but have never sent in such a notice to any private StarCraft 2 stream, despite StarCraft 2 generating more ad revenue from streaming.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
The tournament will be fine, Blizzard Korea seems to have acted by the letter and not the spirit of the law on this one. Don't think it should reflect poorly on Blizzard as a whole although I would like to see an apology from Blizzard Korea.
Brood War licensing is such a minor thing for Blizzard I would be surprised if they had ANY knowledge of this beforehand (the higher ups).
The reaction in this thread is understandable, but no longer justified in my opinion. It's not an intentional kick in the balls, that much is obvious.
Either way, the important thing is that we keep supporting BW tourneys as they come. Is there any donation drive or something like it for the SSL? If you guys are half as passionate as you say you are in this thread, we should be able to support SSL and other amateur tournaments better.
On November 15 2012 03:09 Evangelist wrote: Blizzard Korea has been battling KESPA for close to ten years. I imagine they've got pretty specific guidelines on how to deal with it. Maybe if the weeping vaginas in this thread had any common sense they'd realize that Blizzard reckon it's pretty cool their old game is still so loved and played.
TL again proves that it is the common sense of a confused pygmy regarding BW.
What is your response to my arguments?
1 Korea has stricter rules compared to the rest of the world. (The ISL's had more than $500 in their prize pools, and they got away with it).
2 Brood War has stricter rules compared to StarCraft 2. (500 instead of 5000)
3 They waited until the finals before doing anything.
4 They are sending (or at the very least publicly stated that they are considering sending) copyright notices to Brood War streams on Afreeca, but have never sent in such a notice to any private StarCraft 2 stream, despite StarCraft 2 generating more ad revenue from streaming.
What is the justification for this? Show me your " common sense " that I lack. Obviously, this was Blizzard Korea, not Blizzard, but Blizzard gave them the rules. The rules of only allowing BW tournaments to have a prize pool of $500 without paying, and letting SC2 have $5000. The rules of treating Korea worse than the rest of the world when it comes to tournaments.
Blizzard Korea is not Blizzard?
News to me.
It's a division of Blizzard, one that is relatively minor in the grand scope of things. I'm sure they are semi-autonomous.
Like Sc2 and other blizz games are not enough and they want to sqeeze more money whenever is possible..Blizzard boss just got owned in bw 3 times by some D+ noob and he started crying but then he decided revenge is possible by shutdown entere SSL and ask for money.... Well idk how they founded that small tournament, but accept it... The world is money and money is the world. Everything almost is money. And Blizzard are not friend. Yes they create Bw but that's it. They dont fix bugs or updating battlenet or creating maps.. Nothing. They created new game so they can receive more and more money and hey... why dont we take money from bw too.. hm.. does anyone still play it.. oh look there is a small bw fans with tiny OSL lets force them to pay.... god... Now you know why scbw is not free to play yet... After what.. 15 years this game is not free lol.
I think the problem accur when Sonic turned this into big thing. I mean ads... money.. sponsors big studio... If you force people to play and creating a tour with money and sponsors also broadcsting this to entire worlds... well yeah.. you need to pay licence... From Blizzard point of view they are right... But i mean c'mon.. this is BW ... not sc2.. Is 15 old game nobody play it...whyyyy crushing only good game.. damn, SONIC SHOULD NOT PAY. Just... he need to found free way to do the final... After all we dont care if games are played offline or online or in big studio or in basemant or in University... WE JUST WANT GOOD GAMES that's it... But hey.. guys we can help him, if everyone with money donate 5$ or smth it will be really cool.
Either way, the important thing is that we keep supporting BW tourneys as they come. Is there any donation drive or something like it for the SSL? If you guys are half as passionate as you say you are in this thread, we should be able to support SSL and other amateur tournaments better.
Show me the donate button.
(I already donated money to the swedish brood war initiative by joining and paying my fee. And I showed up at the first meeting)
On November 14 2012 18:20 L_Master wrote: What in the motherfucking hell is this bullshit!? Fucking kidding me?
Seriously blizzard FUCK YOU and go die in a fucking hole or something.
While this may not totally kill SSL, it certainly fucks up everyone that had invested in preparing a pretty awesome finals and what was a nicely run tournament.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
Now do me a favor, and kindly get out of here with your clueless talk and ignorance.
Oh, I'll gladly leave. I appreciate your response; despite the overwhelming arrogance, yours is still one of the more level-headed replies.
While you're all busy circlejerking, remember that this thread and these posts are TL's response to the situation. You could have taken the high road, waited for the other side to make a statement and either stayed silent in the meantime or at least have taken a more civil approach. Instead, it's gone right to the ugly part - SC2 is killing BW, FUCK BLIZZARD, "we don't want SC2 fanboys in here", FUCK BLIZZARD, FUCK BLIZZARD. So mature. So manner.
Understand that I'm not taking any issues with you guys blowing off steam. I agree that it's very questionable what Blizzard did there. I understand passion, and hot-headed reactions regarding threats to one's hobby. But this thread is pathetic.
because this is what the sc2 community is known for right? Take the high road and all...
ahaha. Yah.. pot calling the kettle black. There was no need to hate on SC2 here. Hate on Blizzard if you wish but they are two separate things. It would be interesting to see a Blizzard comment on this though imo. Sucks to have this result. Perhaps he can run it in a few months time.
The whole idea that a video game company is entitled to streaming profits seems legally dubious IMO and would love to see this competently challenged in court under derivative work grounds.
To use an analogy, say I wear a nike shirt to a race. I win the race and am afforded a prize which is financed from television proceeds. Using Blizzard's logic, just because I as one of the racers happened to wear a nike shirt, then they should be entitled to some of the proceeds? Just because a unique copyright-able item is shown on a commercial presentation doesn't necessarily mean the derivative work has to gain a license. If so, newscasters would go broke right and left. Film a McDonald's building without their permission? Tough... pay $1,232,239.23! In the US at least, IP clearly allows for derivative works to allowable as long as they are distinct from the underlying work....which streams are. The game is the game...the stream is the interaction thereof and the comments. You can't mistake a tool for its application. What next? Does Blizzard go after twitch.tv and youtube streams...many of whom make decent money?
What's sad about this, is that this is over a 14 year old game on an archaic 1024X720 resolution. Despite this, the Koreans by their own hard work built this into an industry on their own while hurting no-one in the west. The Korean economy is not on par with America/Europe and the culture is very frugal, so the license fees hit them a lot harder and have effectively ended an incredible icon in Korea. So sad too that the mob on Redditt is so quick to attack anybody who is critical of Blizzard. They have no clue as to the role Blizzard played in ending BW in Korea as well...it wasn't because SC2 was so wonderful and popular...
Perhaps one day Mike Morhaime will wake up from his mad dream...realize money and control isn't the end all, and feel bad that he killed one of the greatest traditions in Korea. He will realize that he was punishing people for a victimless crime and the issue of licensing fees is mute if competitions won't pay for them. Then his grinch heart will perhaps grow two sizes and he'll announce BW competitions will be free to play from now on and not be harassed from blood-sucking lawyers. One can hope...
On November 15 2012 08:58 Fungal Growth wrote: The whole idea that a video game company is entitled to streaming profits seems legally dubious IMO and would love to see this competently challenged in court under derivative work grounds.
To use an analogy, say I wear a nike shirt to a race. I win the race and am afforded a prize which is financed from television proceeds. Using Blizzard's logic, just because I as one of the racers happened to wear a nike shirt, then they should be entitled to some of the proceeds? Just because a unique copyright-able item is shown on a commercial presentation doesn't necessarily mean the derivative work is has to gain a license. If so, newscasters would go broke right and left. Film a McDonald's building without their permission? Tough... pay $1,232,239.23! In the US at least, IP clearly allows for derivative works to allowable as long as they are distinct from the underlying work....which streams are. The game is the game...the stream is the interaction thereof and the comments. You can't mistake a tool for its application. What next? Does Blizzard go after twitch.tv and youtube streams...many of whom make decent money?
What's sad about this, is that this is over a 14 year old game on an archaic 1024X720 resolution. Despite this, the Koreans by their own hard work built this into an industry on their own while hurting no-one in the west. The Korean economy is not on par with America/Europe and the culture is very frugal, so the license fees hit them a lot harder and have effectively ended an incredible icon in Korea. So sad too that the mob on Redditt is so quick to attack anybody who is critical of Blizzard. They have no clue as to the role Blizzard played in ending BW in Korea as well...it wasn't because SC2 was so wonderful...
Perhaps one day Mike Morhaime will wake up from his mad dream...realize money and control isn't the end all, and feel bad that he killed one of the greatest traditions in Korea. He will realize that he was punishing people for a victimless crime and the issue of licensing fees is mute if competitions won't pay for them. Then his grinch heart will perhaps grow two sizes and he'll announce BW competitions will be free to play from now on and not be harassed from blood-sucking lawyers. One can hope...
They made the game and have the rights to the game. When you buy a game you buy the right to play it. Blizzard still owns it. So why should they not take revenue from someone else making money off their property? If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals.
On November 15 2012 08:58 Fungal Growth wrote: The whole idea that a video game company is entitled to streaming profits seems legally dubious IMO and would love to see this competently challenged in court under derivative work grounds.
To use an analogy, say I wear a nike shirt to a race. I win the race and am afforded a prize which is financed from television proceeds. Using Blizzard's logic, just because I as one of the racers happened to wear a nike shirt, then they should be entitled to some of the proceeds? Just because a unique copyright-able item is shown on a commercial presentation doesn't necessarily mean the derivative work is has to gain a license. If so, newscasters would go broke right and left. Film a McDonald's building without their permission? Tough... pay $1,232,239.23! In the US at least, IP clearly allows for derivative works to allowable as long as they are distinct from the underlying work....which streams are. The game is the game...the stream is the interaction thereof and the comments. You can't mistake a tool for its application. What next? Does Blizzard go after twitch.tv and youtube streams...many of whom make decent money?
What's sad about this, is that this is over a 14 year old game on an archaic 1024X720 resolution. Despite this, the Koreans by their own hard work built this into an industry on their own while hurting no-one in the west. The Korean economy is not on par with America/Europe and the culture is very frugal, so the license fees hit them a lot harder and have effectively ended an incredible icon in Korea. So sad too that the mob on Redditt is so quick to attack anybody who is critical of Blizzard. They have no clue as to the role Blizzard played in ending BW in Korea as well...it wasn't because SC2 was so wonderful and popular...
Perhaps one day Mike Morhaime will wake up from his mad dream...realize money and control isn't the end all, and feel bad that he killed one of the greatest traditions in Korea. He will realize that he was punishing people for a victimless crime and the issue of licensing fees is mute if competitions won't pay for them. Then his grinch heart will perhaps grow two sizes and he'll announce BW competitions will be free to play from now on and not be harassed from blood-sucking lawyers. One can hope...
I agree that it's ethically questionable. However, in almost all cases, when you purchase software you aren't really. You are instead purchasing the license to use the software. By putting conditions in the terms of use, they can legally require increased license fees for things like this.
It becomes a murky ethical argument from there. Do you say that songwriters shouldn't receive royalties for their song being used in commercials or movies? That is similar, since the movie makers are making the finished product, but a portion of that product is made by someone else. I can honestly see both sides. I do believe that the percentage of the event revenue should be pretty low, especially as the game gets older.
On November 15 2012 09:00 mrtomjones wrote: They made the game and have the rights to the game.
Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers. In the US there is a legal principal known as derivative works. It says that you can include copyrighted material in your own work as long as it is distinct and derived which competitions clearly are. Competitions are not games. Blizzard sold a game, not a competition. I mean using your logic, where do you drawn the line? Say there is a pro-poker tournament...and the players use acme cards. Can/should acme sue just because their cards were used in the tournament?
When you buy a game you buy the right to play it. Blizzard still owns it. So why should they not take revenue from someone else making money off their property?
You can't use terms like 'own' and control with intellectual property...it's completely different from tangible property and has a completely different rule-set.
If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals.
And yet a free game in League of Legends is more popular than SC2...so there goes the incentive argument. There are different monetization strategies for game producers. In-game ads, feature up-sells, and even god-forbid...just making money off the DVD sales which we KNOW is substantial and is a tried and true breadwinner for video game producers over the years. Leaching streaming revenue is just pure greed from the industry and nothing more.
On November 15 2012 09:09 TrippSC2 wrote: I agree that it's ethically questionable. However, in almost all cases, when you purchase software you aren't really. You are instead purchasing the license to use the software. By putting conditions in the terms of use, they can legally require increased license fees for things like this.
Did BW have such terms of use conditions? Regardless the courts frequently disregard nuanced terms and condition rules from fine print.
On November 15 2012 09:00 mrtomjones wrote: They made the game and have the rights to the game.
Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers. In the US there is a legal principal known as derivative works. It says that you can include copyrighted material in your own work as long as it is distinct and derived which competitions clearly are. Competitions are not games. Blizzard sold a game, not a competition. I mean using your logic, where do you drawn the line? Say there is a pro-poker tournament...and the players use acme cards. Can/should acme sue just because their cards were used in the tournament?
When you buy a game you buy the right to play it. Blizzard still owns it. So why should they not take revenue from someone else making money off their property?
You can't use terms like 'own' and control with intellectual property...it's completely different from tangible property and has a completely different rule-set.
If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals.
And yet a free game in League of Legends is more popular than SC2...so there goes the incentive argument. There are different monetization strategies for game producers. In-game ads, feature up-sells, and even god-forbid...just making money off the DVD sales which we KNOW is substantial and is a tried and true breadwinner for video game producers over the years. Leaching streaming revenue is just pure greed from the industry and nothing more.
Uhh you make terrible arguments dude. A FREE game is more popular than SC2. No kidding?
Poker and cards is a completely different thing. If you wish to play Sc2 you have ONE choice as to where to play it. If you wish to play Poker you can find any number of card's or tables to play it on. You could even make your own without much difficulty. Not very comparable.
The end point comes down to a simple idea. You do not own Starcraft. You pay for the right to play it which can be taken away. I only scanned the start of this article but it is fairly similar I THINK.
Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers
You dont own the houses, but you own the hammers. And when workers are using your hammer and broadcast to entire world to see them and make money of it, then i bet you will ask for license, becouse your brand is showing to the world without you permission in the way you may not like... lets say like bad hammers... It's like you are buying a movie to watch for youself... you invive a friens to share the movie.. ok thats ok.. but when you share the movie online with the world and make money of it... yeap you need permission or licence...
Either way, the important thing is that we keep supporting BW tourneys as they come. Is there any donation drive or something like it for the SSL? If you guys are half as passionate as you say you are in this thread, we should be able to support SSL and other amateur tournaments better.
Show me the donate button.
(I already donated money to the swedish brood war initiative by joining and paying my fee. And I showed up at the first meeting)
Yes, I would be willing to support it as well. Does anyone know a way to do this? Instead of just complain about blizzard or SC2?
On November 15 2012 09:09 TrippSC2 wrote: I agree that it's ethically questionable. However, in almost all cases, when you purchase software you aren't really. You are instead purchasing the license to use the software. By putting conditions in the terms of use, they can legally require increased license fees for things like this.
Did BW have such terms of use conditions? Regardless the courts frequently disregard nuanced terms and condition rules from fine print.
You are fighting a losing battle, its been industry standard for a very long time. Game publishers CAN shut down streamers. They just usually don't, and if Blizzard actually does this I will be surprised (and ashamed)
Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers
You dont own the houses, but you own the hammers. And when workers are using your hammer and broadcast to entire world to see them and make money of it, then i bet you will ask for license, becouse your brand is showing to the world without you permission in the way you may not like... lets say like bad hammers...
I don't think a company is entitled to money just because someone said their hammers sucked.
It's like you are buying a movie to watch for youself... you invive a friens to share the movie.. ok thats ok.. but when you share the movie online with the world and make money of it... yeap you need permission or licence...
That's true for movies. But that's not quite what a video game is. When you stream yourself playing a video game, or you stream a video game tournament, you're not copying the game. The stream doesn't let other people play the video game without paying the company that made it. Rather, if people like what they see, they might go out and buy the game.
I honestly feel like I am getting toyed with again and again. The first time I saw Blizzard shit on BW I was honestly shocked, it took some time for it to settle in. After nearly two years of bullshit from Blizzard you think I would have learned to just expect them to do everything in their power to destroy any glimmer of hope for a growing BW community. I feel like I keep getting taught a lesson and each time I am still surprised by the result. Congratulations Blizzard, you have made a fool out of me.
I would somewhat understand if Kespa or some equivalent was fighting against Blizzard for broadcasting rights, but this is a SINGLE PERSON trying to host a tournament from his own earnings. I'm not sure who is managing Blizzard's IP rights in Korea, but they are seriously heartless and unreasonable.
I understand Blizzard has the right to ask for royalties whenever a tournament is hosted, but there is no reason to do it for such a small tournament.
On November 15 2012 09:22 mrtomjones wrote: Uhh you make terrible arguments dude. A FREE game is more popular than SC2. No kidding?
Then you contradict yourself. Earlier you said:
"If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals."
You are in essence saying producers won't make great and popular games if they can't charge money for tournaments....along comes LOL and there goes your argument....
Poker and cards is a completely different thing. If you wish to play Sc2 you have ONE choice as to where to play it. If you wish to play Poker you can find any number of card's or tables to play it on. You could even make your own without much difficulty. Not very comparable.
The cards wouldn't be copyrighted but their backgrounds would certainly be. Question remains...does that create liability. My point remains that it is common and relevant that derivative works exist in our modern capitalist society. You can perhaps make a 'where do you draw the line' argument, but not a 'derivative works shouldn't exist' argument
The end point comes down to a simple idea. You do not own Starcraft. You pay for the right to play it which can be taken away.
A simplistic viewpoint and corporate cliche. You make it sound as if IP users have no legal rights to their products and which is patently false. When you pay money for copyrighted material, you as the consumer have the rights to certain expectations for the legal consideration you paid to acquire the product.
You don't own Microsoft Office. I believe this is fairly standard among most computer related ideas.
Indeed I don't...I use LibreOffice and google docs
On November 15 2012 03:36 Sumadin wrote: Can you all put down those damm pitchforks now, this is getting embarrassing.
SC2 user coming to the BW forum to tell us to put down the pitchforks? Is it reverse day today?
I'm not going to go digging through is his posting history, but there are sc2 users who go into sc2 rage fests to tell them to calm down as well, so he could be one of those. I am pissed as well, but attacking a user for his forum of choice isn't really the best way to do it.
If Mohaime or what ever his name is gets it set up so this can go through, I will take back some of the things I said about him the osl team speak.
On November 15 2012 09:00 mrtomjones wrote: They made the game and have the rights to the game.
Just because my factory produces hammers..doesn't mean I own the houses that are built with the hammers. In the US there is a legal principal known as derivative works. It says that you can include copyrighted material in your own work as long as it is distinct and derived which competitions clearly are. Competitions are not games. Blizzard sold a game, not a competition. I mean using your logic, where do you drawn the line? Say there is a pro-poker tournament...and the players use acme cards. Can/should acme sue just because their cards were used in the tournament?
When you buy a game you buy the right to play it. Blizzard still owns it. So why should they not take revenue from someone else making money off their property?
You can't use terms like 'own' and control with intellectual property...it's completely different from tangible property and has a completely different rule-set.
If they don't and no one else does then there will never be a reason for anyone to want to design games around ESports ideals.
And yet a free game in League of Legends is more popular than SC2...so there goes the incentive argument. There are different monetization strategies for game producers. In-game ads, feature up-sells, and even god-forbid...just making money off the DVD sales which we KNOW is substantial and is a tried and true breadwinner for video game producers over the years. Leaching streaming revenue is just pure greed from the industry and nothing more.
Uhh you make terrible arguments dude. A FREE game is more popular than SC2. No kidding?
Poker and cards is a completely different thing. If you wish to play Sc2 you have ONE choice as to where to play it. If you wish to play Poker you can find any number of card's or tables to play it on. You could even make your own without much difficulty. Not very comparable.
The end point comes down to a simple idea. You do not own Starcraft. You pay for the right to play it which can be taken away. I only scanned the start of this article but it is fairly similar I THINK.
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요. 마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ 팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다) 8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다. 현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다. 정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ 블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다. 정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요. 말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ 뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness!
again very rough translation..
edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence. -John Locke
I didn't mind paying blizzard money when it seemed that their goal included helping the community. I defended blizzard to a point with their IP rights fight against Kespa. We are the people that support the company, this is not THAT different from a government system. We follow blizzard's rule, and pay blizzard for their services (in this case their product). Blizzard pays it's employers, but that is also investment back into their products. But if blizzard reduces the BW community to "slavery under arbitrary power" I will no longer support blizzard in anyways. This does not help the community. I will not trash blizzard, since Mike Morhaime at least, seems to not hurt the community for no reason, and he is still influential enough to stop certain absurd tyranny. But that is not good enough, at least not for me. Trying to not hurt the community is not the same as trying to make the community thrive.
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요. 마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ 팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다) 8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다. 현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다. 정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ 블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다. 정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요. 말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ 뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness!
again very rough translation..
edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요. 마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ 팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다) 8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다. 현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다. 정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ 블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다. 정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요. 말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ 뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness!
again very rough translation..
edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
I hope Kim Carrier can still cast the finals. It's still an awful shame what happened... but at least the Sonic was able to jump through whatever necessary hoops and carry on.
Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
이번 결승전 사태에 있어. 미숙했던 대회운영에 대해서 다시 한번 사과드리구요. 마크 모하임 사장님에게 다시 한번 감사드립니다.ㅠㅠ 팀리퀴드 스타1 팬분들들 및 우리 시청자분들. 이런일이 터지고 나서 저한테 조언 해주셧던 모든 분들에게 감사의 말씀 드리겠습니다) 8차 라이센스까지 딸수 있을것 같고 모든게 술술 잘 풀릴것 같습니다. 현재 대관취소로 인해. 다시 알아보고 있구. 취소 되었던 부분들..하나씩 다시 이야기 하고 있는 중입니다. 정확한 일정은 오늘 공지를 통해 말씀 드리겠습니다.ㅠㅠ 블리자드 코리아에서 결승 잘하라고 연락 받았구. 마크모하임 사장님께서 저렇게 트위터까지 남긴거보니. 아직 스타1 팬들과 함께 할수 있는게 너무 많은것 같습니다. 정말 말도 안되는 이례적인 일이라고 하시더라구요. 말도 안되는 이례적인 일들을 우리가 해내고 있는 부분이니. 미숙한 대회 진행 안하고. 제대로 된 진행해서 다시 달려보시죠!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ 뭔가 이 드라마 같은 상황속에 저도 막 손이 떨릴 정도로 기쁩니다!
Regarding the situation with the finals, I apologize for my lack of experience in handling this matter. I would like to thank CEO Mike Morhaime once again. T_T Teamliquid's brood war fans and afreeca viewers, thank you for the good advice and suggestions you gave me as I was going about trying to fix this issue. I will most likely be able to obtain a license for the 8th SSL and everything will run smooth from here on. Regarding the cancellation of the location and the cancellation of the guests that were to appear, I am taking care of the situation one by one. Details will be posted on my afreeca page T_T. Blizzard Korea has contacted us saying we have the OK to run the finals and Mike Morhaime himself cared enough to leave a tweet. It makes me believe there are still so many things we (Sonic and BW fans) can accomplish together. We are pioneering something so unprecedented, so I will learn from my mistakes (of being inexperience in this matter) and carry out the finals as smoothly and orderly as possible!!!!!!!!!!! ^^ It feels like a scene from a drama, my hands feel like they are shaking from happiness!
again very rough translation..
edit: i also forgot to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *pours beer on pusan head* WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :D
I'm so glad we got through this. It's great that Sonic got this all sorted out.
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
i think it has changed because sonic is able to broadcast his league on afreeca again = resolved D: since sonic is also a bw streamer if it wasnt resolved he wouldnt be able to stream?
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
i think it has changed because sonic is able to broadcast his league on afreeca again = resolved D: since sonic is also a bw streamer if it wasnt resolved he wouldnt be able to stream?
Not necessarily. He purchased a license to stream the tournament right? Regular BW streamers don't have a license or anything like that?
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
i think it has changed because sonic is able to broadcast his league on afreeca again = resolved D: since sonic is also a bw streamer if it wasnt resolved he wouldnt be able to stream?
Not necessarily. He purchased a license to stream the tournament right? Regular BW streamers don't have a license or anything like that?
He will get a license for next season, they gave him a freebie this time
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
I think what JohnChoi is saying is that it was exaggeraton and I have to concur (according to my rough translation that quote reads: "Copyright notice has also arrived at Nowcom, so that if Finals take place there'll be forced closure" which I don't think refer to every stream). Honestly I see absolutely no ground for Blizzard to shut down individual streams; it is frankly only thing that could genuinely surprise me.
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
i think it has changed because sonic is able to broadcast his league on afreeca again = resolved D: since sonic is also a bw streamer if it wasnt resolved he wouldnt be able to stream?
Not necessarily. He purchased a license to stream the tournament right? Regular BW streamers don't have a license or anything like that?
I think the thing with regular streamers actually is they either dont have a sponsored tournament or arent hosting anything with a prize pool over 500$?? or maybe the copyright that nowcom got was mainly regarding sonic? i dunno i just know im watching a starcraft stream on afreeca right now and it is quite awesome!
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
i think it has changed because sonic is able to broadcast his league on afreeca again = resolved D: since sonic is also a bw streamer if it wasnt resolved he wouldnt be able to stream?
Not necessarily. He purchased a license to stream the tournament right? Regular BW streamers don't have a license or anything like that?
He will get a license for next season, they gave him a freebie this time
im glad its pretty legit now haha sonic is many inexperienced he learns from these kinds of mistakes. wow so much turmoil in the 7th bj starleague. starting with stream cheating accusations towards minus)zelot and mong and then later the physical fatigue of running 3 offlines in a weekend and then technical difficulties and then a C&D im just glad we got through it hahaha i hope all the guests who were originally supposed to appear can still come out and the venue is still available!
On November 15 2012 12:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Props to Mike Morhaime for fast response, but does anyone know what is going on with the supposed attempt to ban SC1 streams in Afreeca? I heard about it few times in the thread but never found actual evidence supporting it so not sure if it was hyperbole (which would frankly be a massive relief).
apparently it was something blizzard korea was doing sending copyright to nowcom but sonic says everything is cleared up I like how sonic was like I'll keep you all posted and ill resolve this!! and he did sonic even said blizzard korea was like have a good finals yo! i think stuff is resolved
나우콤에서도 저작권이 들어온 상황이라. 결승전 진행해버리면 강제방송 조취를 취할수 밖에 없구.
Nowcom (Afreeca's parent company) has also received a copyright lawsuit from Blizzard. If I just go ahead and host the finals, the stream will be forced to shutdown..
thats about as close as it comes to evidence about the sc1 streams.. and as i read that and heard zergman say bw streamers wont even be able to stream the game anymore..i think I may have blown that situation out of proportion.. i apologize
So the situation hasn't change.......
i think it has changed because sonic is able to broadcast his league on afreeca again = resolved D: since sonic is also a bw streamer if it wasnt resolved he wouldnt be able to stream?
Not necessarily. He purchased a license to stream the tournament right? Regular BW streamers don't have a license or anything like that?
He will get a license for next season, they gave him a freebie this time
im glad its pretty legit now haha sonic is many inexperienced he learns from these kinds of mistakes. wow so much turmoil in the 7th bj starleague. starting with stream cheating accusations towards minus)zelot and mong and then later the physical fatigue of running 3 offlines in a weekend and then technical difficulties and then a C&D im just glad we got through it hahaha i hope all the guests who were originally supposed to appear can still come out and the venue is still available!
Yes, it's a good learning experience but he has done a great job so far, if there is a way to show him support monetarily I would love to
On November 15 2012 12:40 TheEmulator wrote: Someone reverse Arvick's ban, lol.
haha his ban was 6 hours hes already unbanned XD
oh, for some reason I thought it was two days.
It was, but someone preemptively ended it lol
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime for cleaning this up. Although Blizzard started off w/ negative PR from this, I believe they have gained positive light in my eyes in the end. Again, thank you.
And to Sonic. Godspeed Sonic, I can't wait for this historic finals to go down
On November 15 2012 12:22 ZodaSoda wrote: Straight from "Fuck Blizzard" to "Props to Mike Morhaime" Overreaction Level = to Starcraft 2 Dota 2 and LoL Drama wheeeeeeeeeeee
Blizzard does something everyone doesn't like and they are a horrible, greedy corporation that only cares about money. Blizzard does something to immediately rectify the situation. What's the response? That the community made it happen and that Blizzard is just doing damage control.
Hate to say "I told ya so", but it goes without saying. This is why you don't jump to conclusions in the first place.
I'm very happy that the right thing has been done! Sonic is working really hard on this, the community is enjoying it and it would have been a terrible thing for the tournament to not finish. Just please give credit to Blizzard and Mike Morhaime for making the right decision, instead of patting yourself on the back for being a keyboard warrior.
On November 15 2012 13:23 TrippSC2 wrote: Blizzard does something everyone doesn't like and they are a horrible, greedy corporation that only cares about money. Blizzard does something to immediately rectify the situation. What's the response? That the community made it happen and that Blizzard is just doing damage control.
Hate to say "I told ya so", but it goes without saying. This is why you don't jump to conclusions in the first place.
I'm very happy that the right thing has been done! Sonic is working really hard on this, the community is enjoying it and it would have been a terrible thing for the tournament to not finish. Just please give credit to Blizzard and Mike Morhaime for making the right decision, instead of patting yourself on the back for being a keyboard warrior.
Why am I giving credit to Blizzard? They corrected an error that was their fault to begin with. They don't deserve mounds of credit for returning back to the status quo.
Your logic: "So that dude did kidnap a girl, but he let her go 3 days later. So really, we should all be patting that guy on the back because he helped resolve a kidnapping case. What an upstanding citizen."
Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
On November 15 2012 13:49 Reapafied wrote: This thread made me sad honestly... and I'm sad at people emotional knee-jerk responses and hate circlejerking more so than blizzard...
I'm inclined to believe that Blizzard wouldn't have given a rat's ass if we hadn't bitched about it.
On November 15 2012 13:49 Reapafied wrote: This thread made me sad honestly... and I'm sad at people emotional knee-jerk responses and hate circlejerking more so than blizzard...
I'm inclined to believe that Blizzard wouldn't have given a rat's ass if we hadn't bitched about it.
Blizzard (the higher ups) wouldn't have KNOWN about it if we hadn't bitched about it. After it became known, and they made it clear that they were rectifying the situation, the bitching should have stopped. But no, people bitched for another 20 pages.
On November 15 2012 13:49 Reapafied wrote: This thread made me sad honestly... and I'm sad at people emotional knee-jerk responses and hate circlejerking more so than blizzard...
Nothing would have been fixed if we didn't bitch that much. And we we're right to be outraged, because Morhaime himself sounded surprised by the shit Blizzard Korea (is it Blizzard Korea?) was trying to pull.
Thanks M. Morhaime for intervening in favor of Sonic, and thanks Snorlax for letting him know about the issue. I myself posted it on Blizzard's Facebook page. Maybe it's time to for me to create an account on Twitter haha.
On November 15 2012 13:49 Reapafied wrote: This thread made me sad honestly... and I'm sad at people emotional knee-jerk responses and hate circlejerking more so than blizzard...
I'm inclined to believe that Blizzard wouldn't have given a rat's ass if we hadn't bitched about it.
Blizzard (the higher ups) wouldn't have KNOWN about it if we hadn't bitched about it. After it became known, and they made it clear that they were rectifying the situation, the bitching should have stopped. But no, people bitched for another 20 pages.
actually, the wording was vague enough for more cynically minded people to believe it was just empty words (since sonic was already engaging in the process of getting a license/clearing things up). And the bitching only went on for about 5 pages after the tweet. Once it was resolved, the bitching stopped. Please stop misconstruing the situation.
On November 15 2012 14:12 masterbreti wrote: So just out of curosity, will the finals still be held on the 17th? or has everything been delayed?
I think it depends on how quickly sonic can reobtain the venue and ask all the ppl he canceled to appear at the finals to come back D: i hope it can continue as smoothly as possible
On November 15 2012 13:23 TrippSC2 wrote: Blizzard does something everyone doesn't like and they are a horrible, greedy corporation that only cares about money. Blizzard does something to immediately rectify the situation. What's the response? That the community made it happen and that Blizzard is just doing damage control.
Hate to say "I told ya so", but it goes without saying. This is why you don't jump to conclusions in the first place.
I'm very happy that the right thing has been done! Sonic is working really hard on this, the community is enjoying it and it would have been a terrible thing for the tournament to not finish. Just please give credit to Blizzard and Mike Morhaime for making the right decision, instead of patting yourself on the back for being a keyboard warrior.
Why am I giving credit to Blizzard? They corrected an error that was their fault to begin with. They don't deserve mounds of credit for returning back to the status quo.
Your logic: "So that dude did kidnap a girl, but he let her go 3 days later. So really, we should all be patting that guy on the back because he helped resolve a kidnapping case. What an upstanding citizen."
Wait, what? Blizzard did something legal/within their rights; your analogy doesn't really fit. It's more like "That dude took an old lady's seat on the bus, but after everyone glared at him, he got up."
Blizzard working with Sonic is not exactly angelic behavior, but not something to be dismissed so easily either.
Anyway, hoping for everything to get sorted out quickly ^^
On November 15 2012 13:23 TrippSC2 wrote: Blizzard does something everyone doesn't like and they are a horrible, greedy corporation that only cares about money. Blizzard does something to immediately rectify the situation. What's the response? That the community made it happen and that Blizzard is just doing damage control.
Hate to say "I told ya so", but it goes without saying. This is why you don't jump to conclusions in the first place.
I'm very happy that the right thing has been done! Sonic is working really hard on this, the community is enjoying it and it would have been a terrible thing for the tournament to not finish. Just please give credit to Blizzard and Mike Morhaime for making the right decision, instead of patting yourself on the back for being a keyboard warrior.
Why am I giving credit to Blizzard? They corrected an error that was their fault to begin with. They don't deserve mounds of credit for returning back to the status quo.
Your logic: "So that dude did kidnap a girl, but he let her go 3 days later. So really, we should all be patting that guy on the back because he helped resolve a kidnapping case. What an upstanding citizen."
Wait, what? Blizzard did something legal/within their rights; your analogy doesn't really fit. It's more like "That dude took an old lady's seat on the bus, but after everyone glared at him, he got up."
Blizzard working with Sonic is not exactly angelic behavior, but not something to be dismissed so easily either.
Anyway, hoping for everything to get sorted out quickly ^^
Blizzard didn't win any court cases. The legality in Korea is still in question. Even if their "right" is upheld in a court of law: just because it was legal doesn't mean it wasn't an error on there part. Whether you want to use my analogy or yours, Blizzard shouldn't be lauded either way.
On November 15 2012 12:22 ZodaSoda wrote: Straight from "Fuck Blizzard" to "Props to Mike Morhaime" Overreaction Level = to Starcraft 2 Dota 2 and LoL Drama wheeeeeeeeeeee
Wow I just read all this drama now !!! Im super glad cause I woulda gotten banned for sure lol.
If I didnt know any better id say this was some elaborate marketing ploy. This is kinda like in politics when you rile up your own base and there is nothing that can unite our base like the hatred for Blizzard lol.
Another victory for BW, we on da comeback trail yo. Next step, we get Mr. Morhaime to tweet about the finals xD
On November 15 2012 15:54 CoR wrote: so all blizzard haters ^^ say thank you to mr morhaime
Would you shut the fuck up, with your smugness? I logged on specifically with the intention of doing so, if this issue was resolved, but I wouldn't want anyone to think that you had anything to do with my sentiments, in any way.
Nonetheless, I have no idea whether this is any kind of marketing ploy, but I suspend cynicism for the possibility that Mike Morhaime has done something really good for us here. Thank you Mike for letting great BW go ahead.
Still, glad it all worked out? Unless they're still thinking about messing with Afreeca streams. Wouldn't be surprised if they were.
Shame I wasn't able to use my pitchfork this time , love you guys for rallying once again though
It should be pointed out that after that message aired, it was later edited down to remove Mike's offensive comments about "StarCraft II is the future." The rest of that goes on OGN, not Blizzard, for being completely asstarded and editing Morhaime into a montage of OSL winners. I can't understand what the hell went through their heads.
It's not like Blizzard actually controls what OGN broadcasts, they didn't order them to edit that. I'll bet you OGN asked Mike to record a message and that's what he said, not knowing it was gonna go the way it did.
On November 15 2012 14:52 hacklebeast wrote: Blizzard didn't win any court cases. The legality in Korea is still in question. Even if their "right" is upheld in a court of law: just because it was legal doesn't mean it wasn't an error on there part. Whether you want to use my analogy or yours, Blizzard shouldn't be lauded either way.
Kespa settling suggests that their lawyers did not think it was winnable either. Of course you can say that pretty much every case is unique and this one would definitely have been setting a precedent but I do think Blizzard winning would be very much in line with current copyright law.
Sonic says he was able to secure the same venue for December 1st, at Gun-Gook University. The event starts at 7pm KST, and everybody is welcome to come. He says rocker Park Wan Gyu and Kim Carrier are still on board as planned, so all in all everything worked out pretty well He also says you can add him on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/sogoodtt and he will try his best to communicate with you in English haha Oh i forgot to ask him about the stargirls... ._. ill ask when i talk to him again
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
Only if they are in the situation as ours will they understand the rage I was feeling when I read this dumb news in college .There couldn't be a perfect timing than slamming the Cease & Desist before just the finals isn't it ...
Let's say they do solve this and we can have the finals, just a few days later. This is still the worst load of horseshit I've ever been forced to eat. I'm going to lash out at anyone who caused this. They need to understand that this stuff makes a lot of people angry. Big companies understand public relations. They don't understand quiet muttering ("this will probably be fixed..."). Once they realize that their reputation is affected by this decision, they won't do it. Anyone who knows something about marketing knows that this is a way of testing if the fans allow them to actually do this. They announce it and see if they can shut something like this down, and if people aren't too angry, they shut it down. So make sure to be as verbal, angry and out there as you can.
As soon as I saw this I wrote a letter to blizzard telling them how I'm not ok with this. I'm not telling everyone to do exactly what I did, but make sure to do something. If they shut this down it has to cost them something.
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
We're not special? So why is the limit 500$ for BW and 5000$ for sc2? And what about the fucking 10 years when we could play this game as we liked before sc2 came out? It's blatant attempts at killing bw - and I would say it is because they can't make a better game.
And they succeeded. E-sports is all but dead now. (Maybe with the exception of lol)
Still, glad it all worked out? Unless they're still thinking about messing with Afreeca streams. Wouldn't be surprised if they were.
Shame I wasn't able to use my pitchfork this time , love you guys for rallying once again though
It should be pointed out that after that message aired, it was later edited down to remove Mike's offensive comments about "StarCraft II is the future." The rest of that goes on OGN, not Blizzard, for being completely asstarded and editing Morhaime into a montage of OSL winners. I can't understand what the hell went through their heads.
It's not like Blizzard actually controls what OGN broadcasts, they didn't order them to edit that. I'll bet you OGN asked Mike to record a message and that's what he said, not knowing it was gonna go the way it did.
that was my favorite "ogn shrewdly shifts blame onto blizzard for their abandonment of BW for lol" moment
as a bonus, it also doubled as the "sayle officially announces he will never cast a blizzard game professionally" moment
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
We're not special? So why is the limit 500$ for BW and 5000$ for sc2? And what about the fucking 10 years when we could play this game as we liked before sc2 came out? It's blatant attempts at killing bw - and I would say it is because they can't make a better game.
KeSPA vs GOM vs Blizzard was before SC2 came out...that was when all of this stuff changed, and licensing became a big deal. Blizzard doesn't want big events running their game without their consent. And who's saying that the limit is 500 for BW? Sonic is putting up $7000 total prizes. No matter how you look at it, that's big enough for Blizzard to want them to get a license for.
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
We're not special? So why is the limit 500$ for BW and 5000$ for sc2? And what about the fucking 10 years when we could play this game as we liked before sc2 came out? It's blatant attempts at killing bw - and I would say it is because they can't make a better game.
And they succeeded. E-sports is all but dead now. (Maybe with the exception of lol)
I'm talking about the current tournament, not the whole game. Please, dont make it into a game vs game thread.
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
We're not special? So why is the limit 500$ for BW and 5000$ for sc2? And what about the fucking 10 years when we could play this game as we liked before sc2 came out? It's blatant attempts at killing bw - and I would say it is because they can't make a better game.
KeSPA vs GOM vs Blizzard was before SC2 came out...that was when all of this stuff changed, and licensing became a big deal. Blizzard doesn't want big events running their game without their consent. And who's saying that the limit is 500 for BW? Sonic is putting up $7000 total prizes. No matter how you look at it, that's big enough for Blizzard to want them to get a license for.
I would like some clarity on this. How much does a license for broadcasting cost?
Blizzard flexed their muscles in this situation again. I Personally dont like the way the affair was handled by them and i dont feel like giving super props to Mike Morhaim for actually doing the right thing. You oughta expect, that a company like Blizzard actually does "the right thing" regarding its own free PR (SSL7).
Furthermore, people commenting here about shitstorms or circlejerking perhaps are not fully aware of perspective on the Blizzard vs Kespa conflict from a broodwar players perspective. So i would be cautious to emphasize the BW beeing overly critical, hyperbolic. Furthermore i suggest you people go back to your subreddits or other forums and leave people alone, that actually care about the game. Many people here seem to view the incident as a chance to get "revenge" on "BW elitists", which in it self is no basis to a fruitful dialogue.
On November 15 2012 13:23 TrippSC2 wrote: Blizzard does something everyone doesn't like and they are a horrible, greedy corporation that only cares about money. Blizzard does something to immediately rectify the situation. What's the response? That the community made it happen and that Blizzard is just doing damage control.
Hate to say "I told ya so", but it goes without saying. This is why you don't jump to conclusions in the first place.
I'm very happy that the right thing has been done! Sonic is working really hard on this, the community is enjoying it and it would have been a terrible thing for the tournament to not finish. Just please give credit to Blizzard and Mike Morhaime for making the right decision, instead of patting yourself on the back for being a keyboard warrior.
Why am I giving credit to Blizzard? They corrected an error that was their fault to begin with. They don't deserve mounds of credit for returning back to the status quo.
Your logic: "So that dude did kidnap a girl, but he let her go 3 days later. So really, we should all be patting that guy on the back because he helped resolve a kidnapping case. What an upstanding citizen."
Not even close, actually.
Let's recap.
Thread is made explaining Sonic's situation. Angry (justified) posts about how terrible Blizzard is. Mike Morhaime tweet and posting in the thread. Angry posts (no longer justified) continue for ~10 pages despite the tweet with a few sprinklings of people being sensible and saying to wait and see what happens and pointing out the holes in the story being reported. Sonic announces that all is good and that the people pointing out holes in the story were correct (namely that Blizzard was only trying to shut down streams of SSL and not BW in general). Posts about how great the community was for sticking it to the man.
The point is that the community didn't actually do anything. Mike Morhaime's tweet happened very early on in this whole saga and the influence of the community was likely minimal outside of informing Mike in the first place (which actually may have been Sonic and not the community). IF you're going to give anyone credit, it should be Blizzard for fixing the problem and in a timely manner instead of the community for doing what it does every time something like this happens.
On November 15 2012 13:23 TrippSC2 wrote: Blizzard does something everyone doesn't like and they are a horrible, greedy corporation that only cares about money. Blizzard does something to immediately rectify the situation. What's the response? That the community made it happen and that Blizzard is just doing damage control.
Hate to say "I told ya so", but it goes without saying. This is why you don't jump to conclusions in the first place.
I'm very happy that the right thing has been done! Sonic is working really hard on this, the community is enjoying it and it would have been a terrible thing for the tournament to not finish. Just please give credit to Blizzard and Mike Morhaime for making the right decision, instead of patting yourself on the back for being a keyboard warrior.
Why am I giving credit to Blizzard? They corrected an error that was their fault to begin with. They don't deserve mounds of credit for returning back to the status quo.
Your logic: "So that dude did kidnap a girl, but he let her go 3 days later. So really, we should all be patting that guy on the back because he helped resolve a kidnapping case. What an upstanding citizen."
Not even close, actually.
Let's recap.
Thread is made explaining Sonic's situation. Angry (justified) posts about how terrible Blizzard is. Mike Morhaime tweet and posting in the thread. Angry posts (no longer justified) continue for ~10 pages despite the tweet with a few sprinklings of people being sensible and saying to wait and see what happens and pointing out the holes in the story being reported. Sonic announces that all is good and that the people pointing out holes in the story were correct (namely that Blizzard was only trying to shut down streams of SSL and not BW in general). Posts about how great the community was for sticking it to the man.
The point is that the community didn't actually do anything. Mike Morhaime's tweet happened very early on in this whole saga and the influence of the community was likely minimal outside of informing Mike in the first place (which actually may have been Sonic and not the community). IF you're going to give anyone credit, it should be Blizzard for fixing the problem and in a timely manner instead of the community for doing what it does every time something like this happens.
Hyperbole is fun, but the truth is much better!
Hacklebeast is right, it's a very sound marketing move by Blizzard, one that 95% of the population will miss because they're overexcited about the event actually taking place, which is why it's so brilliant.
Props to Blizzard, well played (though they have people who are paid for this, so it's not exactly surprising).
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
We're not special? So why is the limit 500$ for BW and 5000$ for sc2? And what about the fucking 10 years when we could play this game as we liked before sc2 came out? It's blatant attempts at killing bw - and I would say it is because they can't make a better game.
KeSPA vs GOM vs Blizzard was before SC2 came out...that was when all of this stuff changed, and licensing became a big deal. Blizzard doesn't want big events running their game without their consent. And who's saying that the limit is 500 for BW? Sonic is putting up $7000 total prizes. No matter how you look at it, that's big enough for Blizzard to want them to get a license for.
the kespa blizzard thing was before sc2 came out, yes but sc2 was already in development and blizzard wanted to save the future of sc2 in korea which didnt work out too well....
On November 15 2012 22:24 TrippSC2 wrote: IF you're going to give anyone credit, it should be Blizzard for fixing the problem and in a timely manner instead of the community for doing what it does every time something like this happens.
Hyperbole is fun, but the truth is much better!
Giving credit for doing shit like this in the first place? Like restricting tournaments and streams? FUCK NO! NEVER!
You know, only because you have the legal power to do something you don't HAVE to use that. Sun Microsystems never sued someone over their patents, fucking Oracle does. Thats why I give props to Sun and my middlefinger to companies like Oracle/Blizzard.
On November 15 2012 11:51 Mirror0423 wrote: Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God hath provided for all men against force and violence. -John Locke
I didn't mind paying blizzard money when it seemed that their goal included helping the community. I defended blizzard to a point with their IP rights fight against Kespa. We are the people that support the company, this is not THAT different from a government system. We follow blizzard's rule, and pay blizzard for their services (in this case their product). Blizzard pays it's employers, but that is also investment back into their products. But if blizzard reduces the BW community to "slavery under arbitrary power" I will no longer support blizzard in anyways. This does not help the community. I will not trash blizzard, since Mike Morhaime at least, seems to not hurt the community for no reason, and he is still influential enough to stop certain absurd tyranny. But that is not good enough, at least not for me. Trying to not hurt the community is not the same as trying to make the community thrive.
That is the craziest, most lacking in perspective thing I have ever read on this forum.
On November 15 2012 13:47 ArvickHero wrote: Ok, there's nobody here that wouldn't be thankful of what Mike Morhaime did to save the situation. But don't think for a moment, that we didn't have legitimate reason and precedent to despair and lash out against Blizzard when the news first broke out.
So for all of you people who try to judge the community for "overreacting" and "circle jerking" or whatever .. again I can't do it enough times but to requote Falling:
On November 14 2012 18:37 Falling wrote:
On November 14 2012 17:58 Shockk wrote: It's been a while since I've been to the Broodwar forums, but this thread is outright depressing. Not because of the sad news for SSL, but because of the reactions of the vast majority of posters in this thread.
All there is at the moment is one side of the story and so far there are four pages of massive anti-SC2, anti-Blizzard circlejerk, filled to the brim with hate and hyperbole. Sure, the current state of BW is nothing to be too happy about. But if this is TeamLiquid's reaction to the issue (or at least TL's BW crowd), then please, don't act surprised if TL and the "Broodwar elitists" are met with disdain everywhere else.
This may be one of the last great bastions of BW fandom on the web, this may be your little club to hang out and socialize, but you're doing an abysmal job of representing the oh-so "mature" StarCraft community.
What is the mature and reasonable reaction you are expecting? If after 12 years, all the SC2 tourneys got shut down or tranitioned into MOBA games. All the pros and casters retire or switch to MOBA games. And then one guy started up a SC2 tourney because he's passionate about it. And then a bunch of the old SC2 pro's started showing up. And then Tastosis said they'd like to cast the finals. So you're super psyched. And then Blizzard drops a cease and desist two days before the tourney?
What other reaction is there?
Think before you post and judge. If you were as invested in this as the rest of us, would you be saying the same things?
Anyways, thank you Mike Morhaime, and to Sonic. I'm truly excited for the Grand Finals
yeah. what would you guys say if some one from blizzard tried to cancel the GSL two days before the finals?
For the record, there is a rule saying you have to get a license, dont blame it on Blizzard if you forgot to look for it. GSL wont be canceled becouse Gom didn't forgot to gain a hold of one. You can hate Blizzard all day every day , fine by me, but before "telling Blizzard how evil, retarded they are and just for a bonus point, all their game sucks ass which was made after 2004", calm down a bit.
There was fuck ups with Sc2 tournaments too based on the licensing rule, dont think you are special.
And with those "thanks Mike but Blizzard still sucks i hate yoou so much" comments what should people like i think, who enjoys both games?
Lets enjoy a decent final instead of keep on spitting everything.
We're not special? So why is the limit 500$ for BW and 5000$ for sc2? And what about the fucking 10 years when we could play this game as we liked before sc2 came out? It's blatant attempts at killing bw - and I would say it is because they can't make a better game.
KeSPA vs GOM vs Blizzard was before SC2 came out...that was when all of this stuff changed, and licensing became a big deal. Blizzard doesn't want big events running their game without their consent. And who's saying that the limit is 500 for BW? Sonic is putting up $7000 total prizes. No matter how you look at it, that's big enough for Blizzard to want them to get a license for.
Blizz started getting anal about BW licenses because they wanted to establish a precedent and keep KeSPA from doing an SC2 league without Blizz getting any cut or credit.
I love how making the "right decision" at times becomes "well played" when it was Blizzard KR that raised the issue, and then Blizzard US knew about it.
Only ones deserving credit is Michael Morheim (and the people who helped solve this, not Blizzard KR because they didn't even notify Sonic when the league started), and partially Sonic for not being anal about this and solving this issue out.
Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: . so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
Exactly.
It looks like they did "put that fucker on a leash".
why are ppl still arguing i thought theyd be happy finals is gonna commence... @rotinegg thx so much for that update finals are a bit postponed but im so glad they got the venue back and the ppl for a later date ^o^ sounds awesome and im sure all the seats will fill up because of all the media attention its been getting haha + Show Spoiler [Finals Match ups] +
Still ZvZ and PvP though they should do event matches like sonic vs starcue but starcue needs to play with his headphones on backwards
I think we can stop making more arguements and drama its no doubt mike was very helpful and both parties (sonic and blizzard) had faults of their own. sonic for his inexperience in handling a matter and blizzard korea for their overcautiousness (which is understandable from past events regarding licensing)
but the fact is blizzard korea wished sonic well on the finals and he will also be able to get a license for the 8th SSL. im glad theres gonna be more bw to come.
On November 15 2012 18:09 rotinegg wrote: Sonic says he was able to secure the same venue for December 1st, at Gun-Gook University. The event starts at 7pm KST, and everybody is welcome to come. He says rocker Park Wan Gyu and Kim Carrier are still on board as planned, so all in all everything worked out pretty well He also says you can add him on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/sogoodtt and he will try his best to communicate with you in English haha Oh i forgot to ask him about the stargirls... ._. ill ask when i talk to him again
edit: there's more.. I see another singer, a new girlgroup, a stargirl, and also a racing girl... take a look for yourself: here
damn getting even more legit. lol I expected this singer to be shark's friend but it's just another guy, and theres now a racing girl! ^.^
Also theres something about having some PD helping with everything, maybe an old OGN PD or something (google translate not so good). So expect high quality I guess with the camera direction.
sent him a friend request on facebook, but I don't see the "send message with request" anymore :/. Hope he knows foreigners cheering him on.
On November 15 2012 18:09 rotinegg wrote: Sonic says he was able to secure the same venue for December 1st, at Gun-Gook University. The event starts at 7pm KST, and everybody is welcome to come. He says rocker Park Wan Gyu and Kim Carrier are still on board as planned, so all in all everything worked out pretty well He also says you can add him on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/sogoodtt and he will try his best to communicate with you in English haha Oh i forgot to ask him about the stargirls... ._. ill ask when i talk to him again
edit: there's more.. I see another singer, a new girlgroup, a stargirl, and also a racing girl... take a look for yourself: here
damn getting even more legit. lol I expected this singer to be shark's friend but it's just another guy, and theres now a racing girl! ^.^
Also theres something about having some PD helping with everything, maybe an old OGN PD or something (google translate not so good). So expect high quality I guess with the camera direction.
sent him a friend request on facebook, but I don't see the "send message with request" anymore :/. Hope he knows foreigners cheering him on.
He mentioned it was someone who had set up sudden attack and other leagues? but i dont know if he was the ogn guy. i do know though that he is experienced and will be bringing like 3 cameras so we wont have that really ghetto one camera business sonic has going on
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
Acting on behalf of doesn't represent the CEO's decisions if the CEO himself decides to reverse/resolve the decision right after.
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
Acting on behalf of doesn't represent the CEO's decisions if the CEO himself decides to reverse/resolve the decision right after.
I don't think you really understand how companies work, the high ups always get to seem like the nice guys because they can afford to tell the others bellow them to play the bully. What you're suggesting is that Blizzard executives have no control over their crew and you're going around (essentially) calling people idiots when they claim otherwise.
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
Acting on behalf of doesn't represent the CEO's decisions if the CEO himself decides to reverse/resolve the decision right after.
I don't think you really understand how companies work, the high ups always get to seem like the nice guys because they can afford to tell the others bellow them to play the bully. What you're suggesting is that Blizzard executives have no control over their crew and you're going around (essentially) calling people idiots when they claim otherwise.
What I'm saying is that Blizzard KR acted 'on behalf' of Blizzard corporation itself, yet the higher ups didn't know about this decision because Blizzard KR is supposed to handle all the work that happens in Korea. In addition, BlizzKR said that it will take around 2 weeks to formally process everything to get license from Blizzard as they have to notify the HQ. If Blizzard actually knew what was going on and was involved directly, it wouldn't have taken that long (and with Michael stepping in, it didn't).
And I don't see how the last statement only applies to one particular person when everyone else is doing the same thing, some only in this thread while others doing it over couple of months. Seriously
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
Acting on behalf of doesn't represent the CEO's decisions if the CEO himself decides to reverse/resolve the decision right after.
I don't think you really understand how companies work, the high ups always get to seem like the nice guys because they can afford to tell the others bellow them to play the bully. What you're suggesting is that Blizzard executives have no control over their crew and you're going around (essentially) calling people idiots when they claim otherwise.
What I'm saying is that Blizzard KR acted 'on behalf' of Blizzard corporation itself, yet the higher ups didn't know about this decision because Blizzard KR is supposed to handle all the work that happens in Korea. In addition, BlizzKR said that it will take around 2 weeks to formally process everything to get license from Blizzard as they have to notify the HQ. If Blizzard actually knew what was going on and was involved directly, it wouldn't have taken that long (and with Michael stepping in, it didn't).
And I don't see how the last statement only applies to one particular person when everyone else is doing the same thing, some only in this thread while others doing it over couple of months. Seriously
In short, you're saying the same thing I did except you think it somehow proves the point that the high end guys played no role in it. On the contrary, Blizzard KR is simply an enforcement and distribution division of Blizzard itself who take orders from the people whom you're saying have their hands clean entirely. Thus, the guys who are playing the nice guys were the guys that sent out the order in the first place. It's like if I put a security guard at a door and tell him to taser anyone who comes near, then I remedy the situation by taking back my actions... Are my hands clean in this scenario?
Anyhow, the reason I replied to you is because you directly targetted my post by quoting it. Please don't take offence to something you start... lol
People find reasons to argue when something bad happens, and then when something amazingly good happens and the finals will happen, people still find some stuff to argue about and be unhappy.....I for one am just happy the finals will happen, nothing more. People need to stop with the constant argumentative attitude, it really helps none and doesn't help these forums , it doesn't help you (if it does you have serious issues that you need to address) , and it doesn't help the growth of the maturity and integrity of the forums either, people need to get off there high horses, be happy , dont argue with each other and be generally nicer towards each other.
I knew that Blizzard wasn't going to not let the finals happen, thats why I refused to join the " FUCK BLIZZARD " cult that was starting, people really need to try to think more positive. The BW foreign scene has to head in one collective direction, people need to work together. Thats my opinion, I know it is random for me to post this, but it is so annoying to see people argue no matter what is being said good or bad...
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
Acting on behalf of doesn't represent the CEO's decisions if the CEO himself decides to reverse/resolve the decision right after.
I don't think you really understand how companies work, the high ups always get to seem like the nice guys because they can afford to tell the others bellow them to play the bully. What you're suggesting is that Blizzard executives have no control over their crew and you're going around (essentially) calling people idiots when they claim otherwise.
What I'm saying is that Blizzard KR acted 'on behalf' of Blizzard corporation itself, yet the higher ups didn't know about this decision because Blizzard KR is supposed to handle all the work that happens in Korea. In addition, BlizzKR said that it will take around 2 weeks to formally process everything to get license from Blizzard as they have to notify the HQ. If Blizzard actually knew what was going on and was involved directly, it wouldn't have taken that long (and with Michael stepping in, it didn't).
And I don't see how the last statement only applies to one particular person when everyone else is doing the same thing, some only in this thread while others doing it over couple of months. Seriously
In short, you're saying the same thing I did except you think it somehow proves the point that the high end guys played no role in it. On the contrary, Blizzard KR is simply an enforcement and distribution division of Blizzard itself who take orders from the people whom you're saying have their hands clean entirely. Thus, the guys who are playing the nice guys were the guys that sent out the order in the first place. It's like if I put a security guard at a door and tell him to taser anyone who comes near, then I remedy the situation by taking back my actions... Are my hands clean in this scenario?
Anyhow, the reason I replied to you is because you directly targetted my post by quoting it. Please don't take offence to something you start... lol
Are you even sure that they were the ones who sent out the direct order in this particular case? I know Blizzard gave BlizzKR permission to deny any tournament without obtaining a license. What I'm praising Michael for is making the wait time shorter, and resolving the issue in a timely manner such that Sonic league can be continued without Sonic waiting for 2 additional weeks to wait for a response from BlizzHQ.
And I don't take offence to something I start. I take offence at other things.
This is just an argument of an optimist vs cynicist point of view, both have valid points. There's never going to be any conclusive end to this unless there's evidence (impossible to gain), so might as well just agree to disagree
On November 16 2012 04:10 ArvickHero wrote: This is just an argument of an optimist vs cynicist point of view, both have valid points. There's never going to be any conclusive end to this unless there's evidence (impossible to gain), so might as well just agree to disagree
But we are on the internet, if i'm right and he is wrong, i have to tell him
On November 16 2012 04:10 ArvickHero wrote: This is just an argument of an optimist vs cynicist point of view, both have valid points. There's never going to be any conclusive end to this unless there's evidence (impossible to gain), so might as well just agree to disagree
But we are on the internet, if i'm right and he is wrong, i have to tell him
On November 16 2012 04:10 ArvickHero wrote: This is just an argument of an optimist vs cynicist point of view, both have valid points. There's never going to be any conclusive end to this unless there's evidence (impossible to gain), so might as well just agree to disagree
Oh, I agree that we'll disagree, I also agree that it's because he's an idiot.
On November 16 2012 04:54 ImbaTosS wrote: What's up with the "WOOOOHOOOOO *pours beer on Pusan's head*" part? Pusan + Show Spoiler +
lost... what's the celebration?
it was from when pusan advanced into ro4 after 3-0ing cola and then during the interview a dude came with a bottle of beer and poured it on pusan head going WOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOO XD
On November 16 2012 04:10 ArvickHero wrote: This is just an argument of an optimist vs cynicist point of view, both have valid points. There's never going to be any conclusive end to this unless there's evidence (impossible to gain), so might as well just agree to disagree
Oh, I agree that we'll disagree, I also agree that it's because he's an idiot.
Eywa- you should really stop acting like you are smarter or better than everyone else, you are so self indulging, so self righteous, you are no genius and you are not omniscient, I think that you should really just focus on the success of your tournaments rather than argueing with people on forums any chance you get, being able to properly articulate on a keyboard doesn't make you a genius or smarter than everyone else Eywa- , Grow up.
I like where this thread is now heading. Does GGzerg and Eywa shipping begin or do they begin the epenis war?
"you should focus on your tournaments eywa-san, you're so self centered, if only I hadn't...." "hadn't what" "hadn't.....tried to fight with you......maybe you could join my gosu korean clan eywa-san~~~~" "whose in it?" "just.....me and you ^.~. I can't deny it,..... I'm attracted to your large..........confidence. FORGIVE ME FOR FIGHTING YOU EYWASAN" then kiss
On November 16 2012 04:10 ArvickHero wrote: This is just an argument of an optimist vs cynicist point of view, both have valid points. There's never going to be any conclusive end to this unless there's evidence (impossible to gain), so might as well just agree to disagree
Oh, I agree that we'll disagree, I also agree that it's because he's an idiot.
On November 16 2012 00:45 SagaZ wrote: Even if the warnings came from blizzard korea they represent blizzard... so to all people saying "thank this guy" it's like if he let his hudge midly retarded attack dog free in a park and the dog attacks a poor guy. when mike goes oh shit, wtf my dog is chewing this poor kid, better restrain it, you don't say thanks to the guy, you say "put that fucker on a leash god damnit".
And come on now, BW so old now in video game age, game from 98 are reaching the abandonware status by now, the people that made the game don't even work for blizzard anymore. Blizzard had a hudge luck hit when designing the game, but didn't notice they had. they made the game, patched it and said gg, abandoned the game. Not to blame them, that's how video games market used to work, you made a game sold copies and moved on to another game. Then people in korea took the game, and with hudge efforts made it into something hudge. blizzard's help in setting this? 0, one, nothing, they just didn't know/didn't gave a shit (again, that's how things worked back in the day). pro gaming became a thing, a hudge thing, progamers, events, prizes, TV coverage, ect. And then, blizzard, the companie that, yes, made the game comes back, probably attracted by the scent of money to fuck shit up.
So yeah, I'm not saying thank you to anyone but sonic, blizzard still sucks blizzard made broodwar Passion made profesional BW
Acting on behalf of doesn't represent the CEO's decisions if the CEO himself decides to reverse/resolve the decision right after.
I don't think you really understand how companies work, the high ups always get to seem like the nice guys because they can afford to tell the others bellow them to play the bully. What you're suggesting is that Blizzard executives have no control over their crew and you're going around (essentially) calling people idiots when they claim otherwise.
Heh.
On November 16 2012 05:35 LTY wrote: ZvZ final and PvP 3rd 4th placement match. Thanks Blizzard.
Blizzard did not affect the results of Sonic Starleague.