Samsung Khan's JangBi has announced his retirement. According to Daily Esports, the two time OSL champion had expressed that he had lost interest in StarCraft II.
JangBi will forfeit his spot this season's Code S Ro32, where he had been scheduled to play in Group C. JangBi is said to return to his hometown of Busan to take a year off before starting his mandatory military service.
Would have not expected it he was just starting to have success in individual league. Damn but we'll I guess if you don't enjoy the game any longer there's no point in trying to compete
Very dark, dark day for Starcraft fans. Some players just aren't having fun with it and want to get their military service over with. All on you sHy now and this is super bad for Khan.
Does this mean JangBi automatically gets in the BW PR? Heh, Nevermind I think he's going the same time as BeSt but he surely would kick some serious tail in Sonic's League.
Unfortunately, I feel like this is gonna keep happening now that Woongjin is disbanding probably and KeSPA is restructuring. Hopefully they all come and play SOSPA at least. I want more Jangbi Carriers.
I wish BW was still going strong...I miss those days
On August 29 2013 14:27 Tobblish wrote: Unexpected since he was doing so well in SC2 but I guess he didn't feel that much for the game(?). Best of wishes Jangbi.
better he quits a game he doesn't like than continue just for the sake of continuing IMO
wow, this is totally unexpected. He was making some real progress in SCII. He may not win GSL/OSL tommorrow but I could see him getting there and then this :O I can't blame him though. BW Protoss and SCII Protoss are totally different races where one can be offensive and the other is best played defensive(aside from some all ins). His signature, aka Jangbi storms is something that any bronze player can do in SCII due to smart casting :/ Best of luck with whatever you do next Jangbi! Hope he streams in his year off before military and after
On August 29 2013 14:28 lynchkin wrote: How many players have reitred this month? I think it's about 4 or something. But the topic of players retiring seems to be pretty common nowadays.
To be fair this is technically the off-season for PL and this is when we see the most movement in the scene contract wise for KeSPA teams. That's why you see the player transfers and a lot of the old boys retire and do their military service. Still it sucks because JangBi is a marque player.
On August 29 2013 14:25 itsdaniel wrote: he was such a funny guy to talk to...thank you! IM SAD ~~
lucky guy ><
On August 29 2013 14:26 ShiroKaisen wrote: Unfortunately, I feel like this is gonna keep happening now that Woongjin is disbanding probably and KeSPA is restructuring. Hopefully they all come and play SOSPA at least. I want more Jangbi Carriers.
Woongjin is disbanding? :O I thought it was STX(rumours) ><
On August 29 2013 14:24 ahmedaak88 wrote: hmm so is this a sign that kespa is getting away for sc2 in general since all the superstars are leaving
I think they want to maintain PL but it won't be the same once the new rules are in place(no fees).
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
If that were the case, he could just change races. I think the issue is the game design in general.
There are several players on record who said they didn't want to disappoint their fans and felt like they had to play the race they did in BW even if a switch would suit their play style more. For example Bisu. Yes, many people have commented on the design flaws of the game it isn't anything new but you got to do the best with the tools you have and players still find success.
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
I was even thinking, if theres enough protoss retiring, Blizzard might consider re-design the race not gonna happen though
Try to take the positives out of this. This leaves a seat for more up-and-comers to fill the void. A lot of these KeSPA players who have been playing years and years of BW are part of the old guard. This is great news for the young generation of players even if JangBi leaves big shoes to fill.
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
If that were the case, he could just change races. I think the issue is the game design in general.
Some players stuck to the same race they played in BW for their fans. SCII terran benefits greatly from multitasking and would suit Bisu fine but he kept playing protoss for the fans. Same with Flash and protoss(although its not mentioned as much.
I'm crying... I stopped playing this game in Dec (after playing BW from 1998 all the way to 2008... than sc2 til Dec).... but i'm sad my favorite game all time is dying.
I mean when the best BW player at the end retires less than a year in SC2.... somethings wrong. He was the best player in BW at the end. I'm actually sad, I've always thought he would be the first BW pro to do big things in SC2. It's a shame, as much as I think League is the new Esports king, I love watching SC2. I watch more SC 2 than LoL and i strictly only play League.
If flash/Jaedong retires.. I don't know how i'd feel.
that is sad, but I shall not be honest if I say that I'm not glad about his decision. Maybe we'll see him in SOSPA matches and that is so much more fun! Legend of the Fall! I shall not miss you in SC2, I shall miss you in BW
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
I agree, protoss is an abomination in sc2 compared with bw, unlike terran. Hope to see him in sospa leagues.
On August 29 2013 14:38 Malphite wrote: I'm crying... I stopped playing this game in Dec (after playing BW from 1998 all the way to 2008... than sc2 til Dec).... but i'm sad my favorite game all time is dying.
I mean when the best BW player at the end retires less than a year in SC2.... somethings wrong. He was the best player in BW at the end. I'm actually sad, I've always thought he would be the first BW pro to do big things in SC2. It's a shame, as much as I think League is the new Esports king, I love watching SC2. I watch more SC 2 than LoL and i strictly only play League.
If flash/Jaedong retires.. I don't know how i'd feel.
don't, Flash and JD are earning too much money to forfeit their spots. But looks like the tendency of retirements is only getting stronger while ppl continue lying about SC2 future. If you ask me, I'd say that I have doubts not because pros retiring, but because all my friends stopped playing SC2 and switched to different games.
There are too many SC2 players in the scene overall, too many mediocre SC2 players are getting paid big bucks based on BW talent, and SC2 in Korea is contracting overall... Sad, but this is pretty inevitable. And no matter what SC2 is, it's not at all a surprise that some players who enjoyed BW won't enjoy SC2 as much...
On August 29 2013 14:38 Malphite wrote: I'm crying... I stopped playing this game in Dec (after playing BW from 1998 all the way to 2008... than sc2 til Dec).... but i'm sad my favorite game all time is dying.
I mean when the best BW player at the end retires less than a year in SC2.... somethings wrong. He was the best player in BW at the end. I'm actually sad, I've always thought he would be the first BW pro to do big things in SC2. It's a shame, as much as I think League is the new Esports king, I love watching SC2. I watch more SC 2 than LoL and i strictly only play League.
If flash/Jaedong retires.. I don't know how i'd feel.
don't, Flash and JD are earning too much money to forfeit their spots. But looks like the tendency of retirements is only getting stronger while ppl continue lying about SC2 future. If you ask me, I'd say that I have doubts not because pros retiring, but because all my friends stopped playing SC2 and switched to different games.
even though my friends and I got HoTS, I don't see them much online and while wm were an interesting addition, it didn't feel like the game changed enough to maintain my interest. I do agree though. SCII future looks bleak.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three). I doubt Jaedong will go but I think Flash will stay a while as well. He streamed couple of hours back on twitch. Looked tired or something but man, guy is like a robot. He went from game to game to game ><
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
If that were the case, he could just change races. I think the issue is the game design in general.
There are several players on record who said they didn't want to disappoint their fans and felt like they had to play the race they did in BW even if a switch would suit their play style more. For example Bisu. Yes, many people have commented on the design flaws of the game it isn't anything new but you got to do the best with the tools you have and players still find success.
I find it telling that it's mostly ex-BW players retiring recently. Just like those who dropped out when Kespa made the switch, I think many just don't like the new game as much but stayed on because, well, they don't have a choice if they want to be progamers. They have a reference for comparison that the non-Kespa SC2 players don't have.
With the uncertain future of proleague, I think we're going to see a few more retirements from players who were star players in BW but not doing too great in SC2.
I think Sonic just jizzed in his pants. While getting BeSt and Sea to play in SRT was something getting JANGBI, a 2-time OSL champion trumps that. Sad that he lost motivation and best of luck in everything he decides to do. Most surprising thing is, I'm sure JangBi was getting quite the cushy salary.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
I have a strong suspicion that just about all Kespa players secretly hate SC2. I've been watching Jaehoon stream BW last few days and he looks like a slave who just gained his freedom.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
I was even thinking, if theres enough protoss retiring, Blizzard might consider re-design the race not gonna happen though
Try to take the positives out of this. This leaves a seat for more up-and-comers to fill the void. A lot of these KeSPA players who have been playing years and years of BW are part of the old guard. This is great news for the young generation of players even if JangBi leaves big shoes to fill.
I love the players more than the game. For instance this event takes away much interest of me in this GSL. Thats the case for most sports imo Gotta devote more time to watching the SSL I guess
Awwww yeah, Jangbi in SOSPA incoming, he's always been my favourite PvTer in BW, those storms .
Probably very quickly going to be by far the best protoss in the competition if he joins, since he should be the highest calibre player not playing sc2.
Hopefully this starts an avalanche of retirements of former BW superstars that arn't doing that well (stork, bisu). If we could get enough high calibre players to get another BW proleague going that would be a dream come true, probably getting ahead of myself there though .
If Jangbi doesn't join SOSPA though that would be extraordinarily sad .
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
I called Roro because of his sudden drop, that may mean that something is wrong. Just a guess.
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
If that were the case, he could just change races. I think the issue is the game design in general.
There are several players on record who said they didn't want to disappoint their fans and felt like they had to play the race they did in BW even if a switch would suit their play style more. For example Bisu. Yes, many people have commented on the design flaws of the game it isn't anything new but you got to do the best with the tools you have and players still find success.
I find it telling that it's mostly ex-BW players retiring recently. Just like those who dropped out when Kespa made the switch, I think many just don't like the new game as much but stayed on because, well, they don't have a choice if they want to be progamers. They have a reference for comparison that the non-Kespa SC2 players don't have.
With the uncertain future of proleague, I think we're going to see a few more retirements from players who were star players in BW but not doing too great in SC2.
When you've been playing a game for the vast majority of your adolescence years? It's very hard when you're told you aren't allowed playing it anymore and you have to play a new game. Very hard and the pressure on them is enormous. I'm really happy for guys like Sea who got out right away because he knew it wasn't for him and look at him now. Before they switched from BW to SC2. Sea was in a BW nightmare in PL. It was some of his darkest days as a player where he looked absolutely clueless. Ever since his return to BW and joining Sonic League he's now a beast again.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
he won 50k not 100k
50? wasn't it 100 million won? I may be basing this on GSL open season prize although I watched the game live and saw him get the cheque.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
I was even thinking, if theres enough protoss retiring, Blizzard might consider re-design the race not gonna happen though
Try to take the positives out of this. This leaves a seat for more up-and-comers to fill the void. A lot of these KeSPA players who have been playing years and years of BW are part of the old guard. This is great news for the young generation of players even if JangBi leaves big shoes to fill.
I love the players more than the game. For instance this event takes away much interest of me in this GSL. Thats the case for most sports imo Gotta devote more time to watching the SSL I guess
hmm, this is kinda what I always felt towards SC2 scene, I watch the games mostly because of former BW players. If there was noone to play SC2 from former BW scene, I would not watch it. This is sad.
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
I was even thinking, if theres enough protoss retiring, Blizzard might consider re-design the race not gonna happen though
Try to take the positives out of this. This leaves a seat for more up-and-comers to fill the void. A lot of these KeSPA players who have been playing years and years of BW are part of the old guard. This is great news for the young generation of players even if JangBi leaves big shoes to fill.
I love the players more than the game. For instance this event takes away much interest of me in this GSL. Thats the case for most sports imo Gotta devote more time to watching the SSL I guess
Oh I agree with you there because I really enjoyed watching JangBi excel. It's a token to him because near the end of the KeSPA BW days he was the Protoss to look out for and then look what he did with SC2 in PL. The guy is a beast. I used to criticize him a lot for using so many proxies early on his BW career but I give credit where it's due and this guy has proved himself time and time again. Very good player and he will be missed. Now it's time for someone else to step up and lead Khan to victory. Who wants to take JangBi's seat?
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
On August 29 2013 14:55 RiceAgainst wrote: Wow, that sucks. For now. Hope he plays some BW before he goes into military. Not surprised, though I thought Stork would've retired first.
I think a lot of us saw Birdtoss retiring before Mr. Jangbang. ;/
On August 29 2013 14:55 RiceAgainst wrote: Wow, that sucks. For now. Hope he plays some BW before he goes into military. Not surprised, though I thought Stork would've retired first.
I think a lot of us saw Birdtoss retiring before Mr. Jangbang. ;/
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
he won 50k not 100k
50? wasn't it 100 million won? I may be basing this on GSL open season prize although I watched the game live and saw him get the cheque.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
Bisu still has a ton to prove though man. Okay, so he got a few wins in PL. What has he done in Individual Leagues? In either case I don't see the worth in comparing players in a retirement thread. Difference is too small.
On August 29 2013 14:29 Arceus wrote: what the fuck I was sure JangBi has what it takes to win this GSL too many protosses retire. goddamn this game
that's what happens when protoss is by far the least fun of the three races...to play as and play against.
If that were the case, he could just change races. I think the issue is the game design in general.
There are several players on record who said they didn't want to disappoint their fans and felt like they had to play the race they did in BW even if a switch would suit their play style more. For example Bisu. Yes, many people have commented on the design flaws of the game it isn't anything new but you got to do the best with the tools you have and players still find success.
I find it telling that it's mostly ex-BW players retiring recently. Just like those who dropped out when Kespa made the switch, I think many just don't like the new game as much but stayed on because, well, they don't have a choice if they want to be progamers. They have a reference for comparison that the non-Kespa SC2 players don't have.
With the uncertain future of proleague, I think we're going to see a few more retirements from players who were star players in BW but not doing too great in SC2.
When you've been playing a game for the vast majority of your adolescence years? It's very hard when you're told you aren't allowed playing it anymore and you have to play a new game. Very hard and the pressure on them is enormous. I'm really happy for guys like Sea who got out right away because he knew it wasn't for him and look at him now. Before they switched from BW to SC2. Sea was in a BW nightmare in PL. It was some of his darkest days as a player where he looked absolutely clueless. Ever since his return to BW and joining Sonic League he's now a beast again.
I agree. I'm happy for the guys who recognized right away that SC2 wasn't for them. It just sucks that there won't be any new blood in BW.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
Bisu still has a ton to prove though man. Okay, so he got a few wins in PL. What has he done in Individual Leagues? In either case I don't see the worth in comparing players in a retirement thread. Difference is too small.
Bisu had a ton to prove on while he was in BW. Never actually won anything from the days of Savior! I always said he had not fighter's spirit, something that makes old veterans like JD still play.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
he won 50k not 100k
50? wasn't it 100 million won? I may be basing this on GSL open season prize although I watched the game live and saw him get the cheque.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
Bisu still has a ton to prove though man. Okay, so he got a few wins in PL. What has he done in Individual Leagues? In either case I don't see the worth in comparing players in a retirement thread. Difference is too small.
ya true. Mostly going off the PL wins for Bisu although Parting said he's amazing in practice or something.
Damn it, so sad It's kind of rare when players reach a second peak... Jangbi's first peak was during the Dragons era, then he became a "pae-wang", only to come back and win 2 OSL titles back to back ! Then he was forced to switch to SC2... I can imagine the frustration when you worked so hard to reach the top only to be forced to switch games
On August 29 2013 14:19 Tosstriss wrote: Shit, just heard the news on Mafia but damn...
By hearing the news on mafia you mean while playing mafia or that Action also retired? If so, that would be pretty awesome to have a KT Zerg in SOSPA.
Kinda hoping for Hoejja to leave as well so I have a favorite player to cheer for(though Mafia Zerg would do just perfect)
On topic, that's kind of sad in an SC2 point of view, but exciting if he plays Sonic's leagues as he was obviously the top BW player at the time of the switch. Even Minidong wouldn't withstand the fury of the Almighty.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
he won 50k not 100k
50? wasn't it 100 million won? I may be basing this on GSL open season prize although I watched the game live and saw him get the cheque.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
Bisu still has a ton to prove though man. Okay, so he got a few wins in PL. What has he done in Individual Leagues? In either case I don't see the worth in comparing players in a retirement thread. Difference is too small.
ya true. Mostly going off the PL wins for Bisu although Parting said he's amazing in practice or something.
Ofc he is. It's fucking Bisu mechanics. o; Practice is practice man but when it comes to the real deal you got to perform regularly. ;/ I was a huge supporter of Bisu back in the BW days, but I know when they're struggling.
I apologize if this offends anyone but this put a huge smile on my face. While I kind of hate Jangbi for preventing Fantasy victories at the last 2 finals, I am looking forward to seeing him in SSL. He was so damn good before the switch...
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
On August 29 2013 15:01 BlackPanther wrote: Makes sense. He wasn't making any progress in SC2 and he was going into military service soon anyway.
On the contrary he became quite good. From the moment he first lost to a zerling runby he turned into a very skilled toss, so we can't say he was not making progress.
On August 29 2013 14:19 Tosstriss wrote: Shit, just heard the news on Mafia but damn...
By hearing the news on mafia you mean while playing mafia or that Action also retired? If so, that would be pretty awesome to have a KT Zerg in SOSPA.
Kinda hoping for Hoejja to leave as well so I have a favorite player to cheer for(though Mafia Zerg would do just perfect)
On topic, that's kind of sad in an SC2 point of view, but exciting if he plays Sonic's leagues as he was obviously the top BW player at the time of the switch. Even Minidong wouldn't withstand the fury of the Almighty.
We're both listening to the Esports Mafia Week 18 cast man. That's how I heard about it too lol.
On August 29 2013 15:01 BlackPanther wrote: Makes sense. He wasn't making any progress in SC2 and he was going into military service soon anyway.
Not true at all, he looked bad in the first couple of showings after the switch to SC2 and then HoTS, but he improved by leaps and bounds since then, and he is one of the few tosses to have won a game against the dreaded SH split map scenario, and he did it against Soulkey. Given a bit more time I'd have called him a champion contender.
Seriously though all these old BW vets retiring now is greatly depressing.
Omg what? Yeah there is gonna have to be a GSTL/Proleague merge if im going to care next season.
Sigh, been a huge fan of Jangbi since his earlier MSL runs, through the slump and ending BW at the top. I always knew the day would come, but why today... Good luck in the military and hopefully we'll be able to see him associated with esports after it and please stream on afreeca!
This retirement it doesn't makes sense. He started to play at a good level just 1 season ago and right now he retires? hmmmmm. Thanks for all those moments on BW! Were the happiest.
On August 29 2013 14:19 Tosstriss wrote: Shit, just heard the news on Mafia but damn...
By hearing the news on mafia you mean while playing mafia or that Action also retired? If so, that would be pretty awesome to have a KT Zerg in SOSPA.
Kinda hoping for Hoejja to leave as well so I have a favorite player to cheer for(though Mafia Zerg would do just perfect)
On topic, that's kind of sad in an SC2 point of view, but exciting if he plays Sonic's leagues as he was obviously the top BW player at the time of the switch. Even Minidong wouldn't withstand the fury of the Almighty.
We're both listening to the Esports Mafia Week 18 cast man. That's how I heard about it too lol.
Thanks. There goes my hopes of having Mafia playing in SSL 9
It is probably because of money. These OSL champs most likely get a serious pay cut since the transition to SC2. Only JD is making good money. Even Flash said he was losing motivation.
Sad, but not all too surprising. Hopefully he'll at least be able to play in and dominate the sonic starleague. Maybe if enough great players get tired of the game blizzard will be willing to make some fundamental changes to starcraft II. As it stands, it's missing a lot of the magic that made the old game the greatest esport of all time.
On August 29 2013 15:01 BlackPanther wrote: Makes sense. He wasn't making any progress in SC2 and he was going into military service soon anyway.
I'm pretty sure he was the 2nd best Protoss in the HotS half of Proleague and he was on the Power Rank a month ago.
Agreed. JangBi was never bad at SC2 and was getting better. I'm incredibly sad to see him go . One of the few to win back-to-back OSLs (the only Protoss to do it I think?).
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
I wonder why Bisu didn't, it doesn't look like he's doing well anyway. So here is my try Stork, Bisu, Effort, Roro
Roro isn't retiring yet. He won the last WoL GSL getting 100k although he's fallen a lot from that period. Effort, possibly. Must be painful to be an OSL winner and can't make it past RO32(I believe).
he won 50k not 100k
50? wasn't it 100 million won? I may be basing this on GSL open season prize although I watched the game live and saw him get the cheque.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
Bisu still has a ton to prove though man. Okay, so he got a few wins in PL. What has he done in Individual Leagues? In either case I don't see the worth in comparing players in a retirement thread. Difference is too small.
ya true. Mostly going off the PL wins for Bisu although Parting said he's amazing in practice or something.
Ofc he is. It's fucking Bisu mechanics. o; Practice is practice man but when it comes to the real deal you got to perform regularly. ;/ I was a huge supporter of Bisu back in the BW days, but I know when they're struggling.
ya, he's not enjoying himself thus the struggle. Can't blame them tbh. Feel bad for any BW player that was forced into SCII due to the change in PL. Worse for those like Jangbi who peaked and were at their best right when they were forced to switch.
Jangbi last finals against Flash were most beautiful PvT I've seen for a long time. He took down Flash, while Flash was crushing tosses like bugs left and right. Noone expected this, but he did it damn it.
Just remember his long slump of 13-15 losses? We all laughted whether he'd beat his loss record every new PL game, remember his smile when he won a game against Zero by storming the soul out of his drones. And that game was the begging of his rise.
Jangbi always seemed to talk about how he relished the new game. Stork seemed like the one who hated it.
Rule number <insert number here>: never trash the game you currently get paid to play. Those PR/media skills, har har har.
Yeah, but there have been a few players who've shown non-interest in the game in interviews. Stork seemed like he fucking hated switching and has been terrible in SC2.
On August 29 2013 14:21 BisuDagger wrote: Can't wait to see him stream BW. SRT awaits him. And Brave needs an ally for ex khan players. Poor Stork though is all alone.
Jangbi always seemed to talk about how he relished the new game. Stork seemed like the one who hated it.
Rule number <insert number here>: never trash the game you currently get paid to play. Those PR/media skills, har har har.
Yeah, but there have been a few players who've shown non-interest in the game in interviews. Stork seemed like he fucking hated switching and has been terrible in SC2.
Jangbi was the exact opposite.
Yeah, yeah. I know, I know. We have a lot of examples of it. That's where you hope all that PR training goes to work, but some people just cannot help but voice their frustrations. Best example being IdrA.
I'm guessing that since we're now in the off season for PL and the Kespa/ESF talent poaching ban is lifted soon, along with some team upheaval, a lot more of these sorts of announcement are going to be happening in the coming months.
Still, Jangbi is not one I expected. The more this happens the less and less I'm interested in watching SC2.
On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Jaedong might enjoy the game a hell of a lot more as well though
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Yeah, but it definitely takes a certain temperament to be able to crush one's way through the depressing miasma of "hero to zero."
Not that Jangbi was anywhere close to zero ... (which is why this news is so shocking).
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
we don't know how much Jaedong enjoys SCII. I'm sure his success and all the traveling must be a big bonus for him to stick around.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Yeah, but it definitely takes a certain temperament to be able to crush one's way through the depressing miasma of "hero to zero."
Not that Jangbi was anywhere close to zero ... (which is why this news is so shocking).
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
we don't know how much Jaedong enjoys SCII. I'm sure his success and all the traveling must be a big bonus for him to stick around.
Makes me wonder why more Kespa players don't try that route. It might actually be fruitful. Instead of straight up retiring, try going on a foreign adventure.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Other than Flash you would be hard pressed to find a player with as much dedication and work ethic as Jaedong and for how long they've in the business? God damn.
not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
it really sucks that basically none of the brood war legends (exception: probably Jaedong) like SC2. forcing the transition was probably a bad idea in the end.
On August 29 2013 15:23 theking1 wrote: not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
This FUCKING SUCKS. He's been my favorite player since 2008. And right when he started to show signs that he would start to become really really fucking good in SC2. DAY RUINED.
On August 29 2013 15:23 theking1 wrote: not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
Where does the less money come from? I can see the less fame part, but he could have made a lot more money in SC2 than BW if he was doing as well as he was at the end of BW.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Yeah, but it definitely takes a certain temperament to be able to crush one's way through the depressing miasma of "hero to zero."
Not that Jangbi was anywhere close to zero ... (which is why this news is so shocking).
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
we don't know how much Jaedong enjoys SCII. I'm sure his success and all the traveling must be a big bonus for him to stick around.
Makes me wonder why more Kespa players don't try that route. It might actually be fruitful. Instead of straight up retiring, try going on a foreign adventure.
It's a big decision for your life and the amount of work these guys put in becoming brood war champions back in the day must be horrific. You can only survive that if you love the challenge and the thrill of the game. another good example for this is Best, who retired and directly started playing bw again. and Sea, and Hiya (though I would accept that these guys did not really delve deep into sc2)...
On August 29 2013 15:23 theking1 wrote: not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
The real surprise rests on the fact that JangBi was actually looking quite good, guys like Sea were making strides, but yeah at the end of the day if you don't enjoy the game or find that passion then maybe it's time for a change of scenery. Getting your military duty out of the way is a great start.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
we don't know how much Jaedong enjoys SCII. I'm sure his success and all the traveling must be a big bonus for him to stick around.
I actually think the scenery change did JD a ton of good. From what I hear, JD enjoys being on EG, and honestly, if you're a Chinese/Korean player and you have the chance to go to a legit foreign team, I think you should take it and run. Both for the money and all the experiences. Given how short a progaming career is, it's a good idea to make the most out of it.
I would've expected him to drop to Code B before retiring instead of doing it while he's still in Code S. But given the circumstances of his enjoyment for the game and military service coming up, I understand his decision. Best of luck to him.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Yeah, but it definitely takes a certain temperament to be able to crush one's way through the depressing miasma of "hero to zero."
Not that Jangbi was anywhere close to zero ... (which is why this news is so shocking).
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
we don't know how much Jaedong enjoys SCII. I'm sure his success and all the traveling must be a big bonus for him to stick around.
Makes me wonder why more Kespa players don't try that route. It might actually be fruitful. Instead of straight up retiring, try going on a foreign adventure.
Thing is, you have to find a foreign team to take you and have to be willing and want to try outside Korea and compete at all the different lans. It's a big commitment to do that.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
we don't know how much Jaedong enjoys SCII. I'm sure his success and all the traveling must be a big bonus for him to stick around.
I actually think the scenery change did JD a ton of good. From what I hear, JD enjoys being on EG, and honestly, if you're a Chinese/Korean player and you have the chance to go to a legit foreign team, I think you should take it and run. Both for the money and all the experiences. Given how short a progaming career is, it's a good idea to make the most out of it.
ya, agree although we don't know his reason for not trying for that.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Jaedong might enjoy the game a hell of a lot more as well though
On August 29 2013 15:28 Nerevar wrote: I would've expected him to drop to Code B before retiring instead of doing it while he's still in Code S. But given the circumstances of his enjoyment for the game and military service coming up, I understand his decision. Best of luck to him.
Fair, but a lot of players have given up their seeds for various reasons. Whether it be retiring or not being able to make it out there.
Wait what ? atleast finish the season ? Go to all that effort to get into code S and then drop out. Just makes 0 sense. Meh Jangbi, that's Fantasy GG timing right there, not impressed.
On August 29 2013 15:31 Lysanias wrote: Wait what ? atleast finish the season ? Go to all that effort to get into code S and then drop out. Just makes 0 sense. Meh Jangbi, that's Fantasy GG timing right there, not impressed.
Goodluck irl.
PL Season is over man. This is technically the KeSPA offseason even with the WCS going on.
Whenever I think of Jangbi, this kinda smile comes to mind: I believe he did the same in his games against Zero after he realized he won. Jangbi fighting!
On August 29 2013 15:31 Lysanias wrote: Wait what ? atleast finish the season ? Go to all that effort to get into code S and then drop out. Just makes 0 sense. Meh Jangbi, that's Fantasy GG timing right there, not impressed.
Goodluck irl.
PL Season is over man. This is technically the KeSPA offseason even with the WCS going on.
Yeah i supose i should have thought of that. Oh well i thought he would have enough time to retire after his code S play before the next PL season.
protoss glory days...when are basic units were scary as shit and super manly.
Now we just have that pussy mobile they call the mothership core and a bunch of units that instantly melt to terran infantry, something protoss used to laugh at.
Oh fuck this is sad. Jangbi was a truly wonderful player and an inspiration. Best wishes the him and his family, and I hope he has a future as bright and filled with success as his Starcraft career.
He seems don't care about this game anymore, he has some money, no need to force himself do something he doesn't like for very little money. Good move to organize himself, do military service, and prepare for the long future ahead of him. People need to realize that these players retiring from progaming are just kids, they are about to start their life, rather than finishing it, so they need to do a lot to prepare for it.
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
Kinda sad you need to get you jollies trying so hard to trash a game others enjoy because of your problems dude. But to each his own. Enjoy your inevitable ban.
protoss glory days...when are basic units were scary as shit and super manly.
Now we just have that pussy mobile they call the mothership core and a bunch of units that instantly melt to terran infantry, something protoss used to laugh at.
Sigh.
yeah, if not for those blasted terran tanks, protoss would march over terran helmets won't even notice
WHAT!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! He was one of my favorite Kespa players and one of the few who's BW games I had watched . And he did so well for a while in proleague! Sad day.
On August 29 2013 15:23 theking1 wrote: not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
Where does the less money come from? I can see the less fame part, but he could have made a lot more money in SC2 than BW if he was doing as well as he was at the end of BW.
He wasn't as succefull in sc2 as bw.In bw he was a 2 time osl champion who probably demanded an amount of money fit for his performance.In sc2 not having the same performance as in bw his contract probably dropped significantly.Also he might have done some introspection and realized sc2 wasn't for him so he decided to quit while he was on top instead of dragging it out.He might have wanted to pull a jaedong and join a foreign team that would have send him to tournaments and such which probably would have been the best option for him seeing how well this did to jaedong but we may never know.SOmetimes it is best to keep it real real and quit while you are on top than let people see your decline.I can respect him for that.
protoss glory days...when are basic units were scary as shit and super manly.
Now we just have that pussy mobile they call the mothership core and a bunch of units that instantly melt to terran infantry, something protoss used to laugh at.
Sigh.
this was one of the last BW PvZs and I saw commentator cry...
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why is this only a temp ban
I'm so sad right now. This just came out of the blue. Didn't Jangbi say that he was really enjoying the game? He was getting so good too
On August 29 2013 15:23 theking1 wrote: not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
Where does the less money come from? I can see the less fame part, but he could have made a lot more money in SC2 than BW if he was doing as well as he was at the end of BW.
He wasn't as succefull in sc2 as bw.In bw he was a 2 time osl champion who probably demanded an amount of money fit for his performance.In sc2 not having the same performance as in bw his contract probably dropped significantly.Also he might have done some introspection and realized sc2 wasn't for him so he decided to quit while he was on top instead of dragging it out.He might have wanted to pull a jaedong and join a foreign team that would have send him to tournaments and such which probably would have been the best option for him seeing how well this did to jaedong but we may never know.SOmetimes it is best to keep it real real and quit while you are on top than let people see your decline.I can respect him for that.
Yeah, I mean, he also isn't a spring chicken or anything... 24's about that time when you start thinking about where the fuck you're going with your life.
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why is this only a temp ban
I'm sure he will come back with more shitposting and get banned eventually. His last few posts are fucking atrocious, lol.
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why is this only a temp ban
I'm so sad right now. This just came out of the blue. Didn't Jangbi say that he was really enjoying the game? He was getting so good too
Cause he spoke truth with a rude tone, rather than spreading lies with a rude tone.
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why is this only a temp ban
I'm so sad right now. This just came out of the blue. Didn't Jangbi say that he was really enjoying the game? He was getting so good too
Cause he spoke truth with a rude tone, rather than spreading lies with a rude tone.
On August 29 2013 15:23 theking1 wrote: not really a surprise.a lot of former pros can not adapt to sc2.Also less money,less fame compared to bw and a lot of players lose interest really quick..And this is just the tip of the iceberg.When esf and kespa en their trade ban this november the scene will have only one set of teams which is probably better since it will eliminate the weakest ones but i see a lot of former bw greats getting brenched or retireing simply because of too much competition.I would pick maru over bisu or flash in my team any day of the week.
Where does the less money come from? I can see the less fame part, but he could have made a lot more money in SC2 than BW if he was doing as well as he was at the end of BW.
He wasn't as succefull in sc2 as bw.In bw he was a 2 time osl champion who probably demanded an amount of money fit for his performance.In sc2 not having the same performance as in bw his contract probably dropped significantly.Also he might have done some introspection and realized sc2 wasn't for him so he decided to quit while he was on top instead of dragging it out.He might have wanted to pull a jaedong and join a foreign team that would have send him to tournaments and such which probably would have been the best option for him seeing how well this did to jaedong but we may never know.SOmetimes it is best to keep it real real and quit while you are on top than let people see your decline.I can respect him for that.
Yeah, I mean, he also isn't a spring chicken or anything... 24's about that time when you start thinking about where the fuck you're going with your life.
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why is this only a temp ban
I'm sure he will come back with more shitposting and get banned eventually. His last few posts are fucking atrocious, lol.
Wow. His last 4 or 5 posts have all had some variation of the phrase "SC2 is dying" in them lol
On August 29 2013 15:40 DarkSpectre wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!!! A LOT OF SC2 PROS ARE LEAVING THE SC2 SCENE :D :D :D \o/ Hope this horrible game die a painful but quick death!!!
User was temp banned for this post.
Why is this only a temp ban
I'm so sad right now. This just came out of the blue. Didn't Jangbi say that he was really enjoying the game? He was getting so good too
Cause he spoke truth with a rude tone, rather than spreading lies with a rude tone.
Huh.
On July 31 2013 01:08 DarkSpectre wrote: Innovation - Patchterren Life - Patchzerg
User was temp banned for this post.
On August 10 2013 21:04 DarkSpectre wrote: SC2 is dying but at a slow rate. I'm no longer enjoying playing nor watching SC2 games anymore. I'm sure that I'm in the majority.
On August 09 2013 06:38 DarkSpectre wrote: It seems that SC2 is dying. LoL and Dota2 are getting more and more popular these days. Hell, as an e-sport spectator, I think that SC2 HoTS is boring as shit to watch these days.
On August 09 2013 06:38 DarkSpectre wrote: It seems that SC2 is dying. LoL and Dota2 are getting more and more popular these days. Hell, as an e-sport spectator, I think that SC2 HoTS is boring as shit to watch these days.
It is pretty depressing that the only 1v1 esport that is popular is declining now too, some of us just don't like team games.
If some of you still think that SC2 is popular worldwide then you need to wake the **** up. IT IS DYING because otherwise, MLG wouldn't have made such a decision regarding SC2, one of the most well known RTS games, in the first place. They have a lot of data that support their decision of dropping SC2.
Well, sorry but in the end it's all about business to MLG.
HoTS is a joke. Blizzard made a huge mess of it.
On August 27 2013 23:16 DarkSpectre wrote: At this rate, SC2 will be dead before Superman/Batman movie comes out.
On August 12 2013 04:46 DarkSpectre wrote: WCS SUCKS!!!! KOREANS ARE INVADING USA AND EUROPE. IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Ban me plskthxbai
User was temp banned for this post.
Being "truthful" doesn't mean he isn't shitposting
Wow you guys stop talking about shit posts and start talking about how much more epic the BW amature leagues are about to become. Hope more BW greats 'retire' in the near future.
Yeah I've seen him post before which is why I'm asking why he isn't gone yet. Also seen a bunch of quality posts from Charlie Sheen. Not winning.
I hope Jangbi finds something else he really enjoys. I love the guy and I'd love to see him stay but it's not the right thing for him if he isn't enjoying it.
On August 29 2013 15:58 Zeo wrote: Wow you guys stop talking about shit posts and start talking about how much more epic the BW amature leagues are about to become. Hope more BW greats 'retire' in the near future.
inb4 sospa has higher viewership on twitch than osl
On August 29 2013 15:58 Zeo wrote: Wow you guys stop talking about shit posts and start talking about how much more epic the BW amature leagues are about to become. Hope more BW greats 'retire' in the near future.
If he doesn't return in some capacity (whether it be in Sonic Leagues or as a coach/caster/something) after his military service I am going to be even more sad
On August 29 2013 15:58 Zeo wrote: Wow you guys stop talking about shit posts and start talking about how much more epic the BW amature leagues are about to become. Hope more BW greats 'retire' in the near future.
inb4 sospa has higher viewership on twitch than osl
SSL already seems to have a bigger sponsor than the current GSL, at least as big.
On August 29 2013 16:30 InvincibleRice wrote: Sad to see him go. I'm surprised Stork didn't go first.
If we see more retirements, I'd imagine that Stork and Bisu would be next.
Stork don't have GSL to play, so he's in no rush, he can announce retirement next month, which won't make any difference. I expect him to retire at least before next proleague, and a bunch of old BW pros to retire during this time span as well.
On August 29 2013 16:34 Fionn wrote: It's alright.
Innovation disliked BW and loves SC2. All hail our cardboard personality hero.
sc2 > bw
how can anyone prefer bw to sc2, wtf, bogus has his heart in the right place
This has to be a troll...
i have talked to a retired SC2 player in a local lan 2 years ago, and he said that mostly every foreigner BW players really disliked SC2 but saw an opportunity in making money that foreign BW never had.
As for your comment, you have never watched BroodWar. Playing it is more tedious, I'd agree, but at least a 20 minutes game doesn't finish in 20 seconds.
On August 29 2013 16:34 Fionn wrote: It's alright.
Innovation disliked BW and loves SC2. All hail our cardboard personality hero.
Everyone loves games they're great at, especially when he can stand to make a ton of money off a new contract and tourney winnings. Jangbi was getting there but it was certainly not a guarantee.
So sad to him go . But I think everyone should remember that eSports isn't something you will do all your life, and players have to retire at some point. The moment you stop enjoying something you should change it, whether it is playing a game or everything else you do in life. GL for him in whatever he chooses to do.
On August 29 2013 16:59 Drake wrote: wait so, the second he gets good he retires ? .... why on earth he played himself in code s then ... he was starting to get incredible good
Player contracts run through the PL season. Likely his contract's up and Jangbi just decided to fuck it.
Honestly, I totally understand his decision. Protoss in SC2 just sucks. It's stupid to play with, and stupid to watch. Jangbi especially is a very bad fit for protoss similar to Bisu in that he's too aggressive. And switching to another race would just seem wrong.
GL Jangbi. Wish you the best and thanks for all the memories these past few years.
Really sad . Jangbi in my opinion is 1 of the protoss hope in sc2 that can innovate it's play style. I hope he comes back to BW tho. 1 of my favorite protoss with Stork, Nal_ra.
I don't blame him, SC2 is an absolute joke compared to BW. I'm extremely disappointed as he's my second favorite Protoss, and because I'm a fan of Samsung Khan, but I'm not at all surprised by this. Good luck Jangbi! Heo Yeong Moo hwaiting!! <3
Good luck Jangbi on your future endeavors! I'm sad because when I started seriously playing BW he was the guy starting to really put on good showings in the individual leagues and OSL and was a protoss, which was even more impressive.
I'm also surprised because I thought he was doing decently in SC2.
On August 29 2013 17:00 hXc_ wrote: So sad to him go . But I think everyone should remember that eSports isn't something you will do all your life, and players have to retire at some point. The moment you stop enjoying something you should change it, whether it is playing a game or everything else you do in life. GL for him in whatever he chooses to do.
Definitely true. Sad though that the high volatility of esports means much less consistent careers than, say, traditional sports barrings injuries.
After starting SC2 i still somehow decided to tune into to some Jangbi vs Zero as like the first BW I ever really watched.... the storms, the magic. Gl gl sir, tho I wish you wouldn't go.
T_T dafuq... He was doing so well... I am really sad he's leaving so early =/ Last champion of BW and killed my hopes for Fantasy twice. Goodbye and all the best in everything you do Jangbi!
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
blizzard didn't kill anything.bw simply got replaced by it's newer version called sc2.And if you think kespa and ogn would have kept bw teams and broadcasted bw competition instead of lol ones..i highly disagree with you
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
blizzard didn't kill anything.bw simply got replaced by it's newer version called sc2.And if you think kespa and ogn would have kept bw teams and broadcasted bw competition instead of lol ones..i highly disagree with you
Well I know they would never have switched to SC2 of their own volition, considering how little popularity it has in Korea compared to either BW -or- LoL.
On August 29 2013 15:18 lichter wrote: On the one hand, I agree that if he didn't enjoy the game, then getting on with his life is the right choice. But on the other I see someone like Jaedong who did so poorly for a long period in SC2, but just won't fucking give up until he succeeds.
Seriously ? Jangbi was working extremely hard and is certainly not someone who gives up easily. He did very well during the Dragons era, then fell into a huge and very long slump and ended up being nicknamed "pae-wang" ( = loser king) by journalists. Then he came back out of nowhere to win two OSL back to back. The real problem is that he was forced to switch to SC2 while he was dreaming of a Golden Mouse...
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
blizzard didn't kill anything.bw simply got replaced by it's newer version called sc2.And if you think kespa and ogn would have kept bw teams and broadcasted bw competition instead of lol ones..i highly disagree with you
uhmm no... Blizzard tried but ultimately, LoL replaced BW and became the long awaited BW2 in Korea
On August 29 2013 17:37 SkelA wrote: Why is this in BW forum and not in SC2 ? Last time i checked he played SC2
I think it's funny that you consider yourself a KHAN fan and then make a post like this...
What's funny is that you seem to think being a KHAN fan somehow means you should think this belongs in the BW forum.
Anyway, if we all were to stop spitting insults, I think it's really sad that Jangbi is retiring - I thought for sure he was going to have some real success after watching him play toward the end of the PL season. But if you're not enjoying what you're doing when you're putting in as many hours as Jangbang no doubt was, then there's not much to do but call it a day. Hopefully he'll have a great life, whatever he chooses to do.
On August 29 2013 17:37 SkelA wrote: Why is this in BW forum and not in SC2 ? Last time i checked he played SC2
How is a player's career ending because he's not enjoying himself great news?
On August 29 2013 17:37 SkelA wrote: Why is this in BW forum and not in SC2 ? Last time i checked he played SC2
I think it's funny that you consider yourself a KHAN fan and then make a post like this...
What's funny is that you seem to think being a KHAN fan somehow means you should think this belongs in the BW forum.
Anyway, if we all were to stop spitting insults, I think it's really sad that Jangbi is retiring - I thought for sure he was going to have some real success after watching him play toward the end of the PL season. But if you're not enjoying what you're doing when you're putting in as many hours as Jangbang no doubt was, then there's not much to do but call it a day. Hopefully he'll have a great life, whatever he chooses to do.
So you're renouncing JangBi's legacy in Brood War just because he plays a different game now? Maybe he still has people who give two shits about him in the BW community, don't you think they deserve to know about his retirement and discuss/mourn?
On August 29 2013 17:37 SkelA wrote: Why is this in BW forum and not in SC2 ? Last time i checked he played SC2
I think it's funny that you consider yourself a KHAN fan and then make a post like this...
What's funny is that you seem to think being a KHAN fan somehow means you should think this belongs in the BW forum.
Anyway, if we all were to stop spitting insults, I think it's really sad that Jangbi is retiring - I thought for sure he was going to have some real success after watching him play toward the end of the PL season. But if you're not enjoying what you're doing when you're putting in as many hours as Jangbang no doubt was, then there's not much to do but call it a day. Hopefully he'll have a great life, whatever he chooses to do.
So you're renouncing JangBi's legacy in Brood War just because he plays a different game now? Maybe he still has people who give two shits about him in the BW community, don't you think they deserve to know about his retirement and discuss/mourn?
No I agree that it should be in the Brood War section, but wondering why it isn't in the Starcraft II-section since Jangbi hasn't had anything to do with Brood War for over a year isn't exactly a whacked-out thing to say (and it has little to do with team icons)
On August 29 2013 17:45 Dodgin wrote: careful zealousy
this is the danger zone
All I see is gloating. But you're right, I'll leave. Sorry for stirring shit up.
November 11th, 2012: "SC2 is a new challenge for me. There are many new things in SC2 that are different from BW. I'm beginning to develop a new passion that I didn't feel while playing BW. It's great that Korean players now get the opportunity to go abroad and experience many new things, and I want to attend foreign events if possible, too."
January 21st, 2013: "I found out how to properly play SC2 WoL. Ever since I found out exactly how I'm supposed to play a macro game, I've even been enjoying my practices. If there was ever a time in the beginning where I was feeling forced to practice, then right now I feel the complete opposite. Since I am putting in the effort to work hard, I am having fun and I think I'm making good results."
April 10th, 2013: "After winning my final BW championship, I've been on a decline ever since my transition to HotS. However, I'm sure that's just one of many roads that I'll be able to take. It's time for me to start rising."
In a video interview with Khaldor on the same day, he expressed resignation and frustration that he wouldn't get many opportunities to travel abroad, as Samsung only contracted the team out for events inside Korea. He also stated that he wished he could switch to Zerg, but he felt an obligation to the fans to stay as Protoss, which he found to be the race least suitable to his playstyle, and that the changes in HotS actually encouraged more defensive play from Protoss. While he clearly emphasized how much easier SC2 was than BW, he also specifically stated "even as a Brood War pro, I played Starcraft 2 as a hobby when I had time. They're both really fun games."
April 13th, 2013: "I feel proud of the fact that I was responsible for the team's 200th victory today. I really hope I'm still here when we grab our 300th victory." (I just thought that this showed his commitment to his legacy)
Guys, I hate to sound like I've got a tinfoil hat on, but I really don't think this is all about being bored with SC2. I think it's very likely that that is partially to blame, and that he feels Protoss isn't terribly fun, but I think the story is greatly oversimplifying his reasons for quitting. He's from the farthest city in SK from Seoul, so he probably doesn't get to see his family terribly often. He mentioned wanting to see his sister's wedding and his (potential) niece. He's got military service coming up in a year, and probably has only so much time he can get better. SC2 is a less remunerative career in Korea these days, and he probably was looking at his contract negotiations, comparing them with the years in which he was nearly top banana, and thinking "gee, this sucks!". Perhaps he felt that he was currently hitting a wall, much as Snute explored the psychology of in his recent blog. All of these were probably (except maybe hitting a wall, which is purely conjecture) on his mind and contributing to him not continuing his career.
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
blizzard didn't kill anything.bw simply got replaced by it's newer version called sc2.And if you think kespa and ogn would have kept bw teams and broadcasted bw competition instead of lol ones..i highly disagree with you
Well I know they would never have switched to SC2 of their own volition, considering how little popularity it has in Korea compared to either BW -or- LoL.
to lol yes.to bw i dunno.i know bw is still more played in pc bangs but as a spectator esport i doubt it can make more numbers than sc2 on the long run.a game made in 98 can only be on tv for so long.But i may be wrong on that since according to pc bang statistics a lot of games are more popular than sc2.
On August 29 2013 17:37 SkelA wrote: Why is this in BW forum and not in SC2 ? Last time i checked he played SC2
I think it's funny that you consider yourself a KHAN fan and then make a post like this...
What's funny is that you seem to think being a KHAN fan somehow means you should think this belongs in the BW forum.
Anyway, if we all were to stop spitting insults, I think it's really sad that Jangbi is retiring - I thought for sure he was going to have some real success after watching him play toward the end of the PL season. But if you're not enjoying what you're doing when you're putting in as many hours as Jangbang no doubt was, then there's not much to do but call it a day. Hopefully he'll have a great life, whatever he chooses to do.
So you're renouncing JangBi's legacy in Brood War just because he plays a different game now? Maybe he still has people who give two shits about him in the BW community, don't you think they deserve to know about his retirement and discuss/mourn?
No I agree that it should be in the Brood War section, but wondering why it isn't in the Starcraft II-section since Jangbi hasn't had anything to do with Brood War for over a year isn't exactly a whacked-out thing to say (and it has little to do with team icons)
On August 29 2013 17:45 Dodgin wrote: careful zealousy
this is the danger zone
All I see is gloating. But you're right, I'll leave. Sorry for stirring shit up.
To be a bit more constructive: well of course this news should be in the sc2 forums as well as Jangbi played it for over a year now. However it's legit too, to post it in the BW section as his history with this game is longer and more meaningful to fans. I doubt Jangbi made ton of fans for what he did in sc2 or for what he achieved. A lot of his sc2 fans also remember his BW times fondly. So, as a player historically and emotionally he is stronger tied to the BW scene then to the sc2. On a different note: i don't think there is a reason why you coulnd't post a thread like this aswell in sc2 forums. So instead of arguing whether or not, why didnt you just create it there aswell? i would have posted a few nice words there too.
topic: T_T Jangbi, you were one of my favorite all time Protoss players. i hope you fare well in whatever you do and i might see you in SRT /SSL.
No no no no no no no no no no no. I will never ever forget him jangbanging the living shit out of zero in ro4 of last bw osl. Really sad to see someone like that go, I guess it's really hard to force yourself to play a worse version of what you actually fell in love with.
Too much game x > game y by some people who comment on this thread regardless I hope Jangbi would have a great future in real life he did all he can already in sc2 but he didn't like the game so let's just leave it like that and not go further into a endless loop where everyone is going to comment about bw is going to die anyway and sc2 is going to ...... (you know).
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
blizzard didn't kill anything.bw simply got replaced by it's newer version called sc2.And if you think kespa and ogn would have kept bw teams and broadcasted bw competition instead of lol ones..i highly disagree with you
Well I know they would never have switched to SC2 of their own volition, considering how little popularity it has in Korea compared to either BW -or- LoL.
to lol yes.to bw i dunno.i know bw is still more played in pc bangs but as a spectator esport i doubt it can make more numbers than sc2 on the long run.a game made in 98 can only be on tv for so long.But i may be wrong on that since according to pc bang statistics a lot of games are more popular than sc2.
When a game came out is irrelevant, what's relevant is how appealing it continues to be to its fans. And BW's unparalleled depth as an RTS game has it still be much more popular than SC2 in Korea.
Most of GOM's views and viewers come from the Western audience.
On August 29 2013 18:04 Epoxide wrote: Seeing him play BW on Brave's stream was nice. Maybe HyuN is next?
HyuN's only been getting more successful in SC2 so I doubt it.
Nooooo, why you What will I do now? Who will be the player for me to watch all the matches? To hype up in everything? Who will now take your spot in my heart?! I am sad now.
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
Lets be honest here, yes Blizzard drove one of the, or the final nail in, but BW was not the healthy young esport it once was prior or during the whole legal battle. Remove SC2 from the equation all together and do you think BW would have maintained itself in light of the rise of other competitive esports like World of Tanks, Dota 2, LoL, etc?
What of the effects from the betting scandal, or lack of expansion and outreach to a global audience? I'm not arguing quality of the experience for viewers and players here, I'm just pointing out it was a bit too comfortable in its niche position to have continued in a commanding capacity for too much longer in face of having to deal with actual competition to its esport's status.
There are a lot of factors including Blizzard's handling of the situation for both BW and SC2 to place the fault ENTIRELY on their shoulders.
Big names are leaving, but its not like there is a shortage of players. Would there be as much of an uproar about the state of the scene if a BW B-teamer retired from SC2 instead of someone like Jangbi? Maybe the expected Elephant's effects didnt upset the state of the room as much as people had anticipated.
On August 29 2013 17:51 Pontius Pirate wrote: November 11th, 2012: "SC2 is a new challenge for me. There are many new things in SC2 that are different from BW. I'm beginning to develop a new passion that I didn't feel while playing BW. It's great that Korean players now get the opportunity to go abroad and experience many new things, and I want to attend foreign events if possible, too."
January 21st, 2013: "I found out how to properly play SC2 WoL. Ever since I found out exactly how I'm supposed to play a macro game, I've even been enjoying my practices. If there was ever a time in the beginning where I was feeling forced to practice, then right now I feel the complete opposite. Since I am putting in the effort to work hard, I am having fun and I think I'm making good results."
April 10th, 2013: "After winning my final BW championship, I've been on a decline ever since my transition to HotS. However, I'm sure that's just one of many roads that I'll be able to take. It's time for me to start rising."
In a video interview with Khaldor on the same day, he expressed resignation and frustration that he wouldn't get many opportunities to travel abroad, as Samsung only contracted the team out for events inside Korea. He also stated that he wished he could switch to Zerg, but he felt an obligation to the fans to stay as Protoss, which he found to be the race least suitable to his playstyle, and that the changes in HotS actually encouraged more defensive play from Protoss. While he clearly emphasized how much easier SC2 was than BW, he also specifically stated "even as a Brood War pro, I played Starcraft 2 as a hobby when I had time. They're both really fun games."
April 13th, 2013: "I feel proud of the fact that I was responsible for the team's 200th victory today. I really hope I'm still here when we grab our 300th victory." (I just thought that this showed his commitment to his legacy)
Guys, I hate to sound like I've got a tinfoil hat on, but I really don't think this is all about being bored with SC2. I think it's very likely that that is partially to blame, and that he feels Protoss isn't terribly fun, but I think the story is greatly oversimplifying his reasons for quitting. He's from the farthest city in SK from Seoul, so he probably doesn't get to see his family terribly often. He mentioned wanting to see his sister's wedding and his (potential) niece. He's got military service coming up in a year, and probably has only so much time he can get better. SC2 is a less remunerative career in Korea these days, and he probably was looking at his contract negotiations, comparing them with the years in which he was nearly top banana, and thinking "gee, this sucks!". Perhaps he felt that he was currently hitting a wall, much as Snute explored the psychology of in his recent blog. All of these were probably (except maybe hitting a wall, which is purely conjecture) on his mind and contributing to him not continuing his career.
It's pretty interesting seeing all the interview questions at once like that.
I'll miss you Jangbi. I mean I'm getting bored with SC2 now as well but the one thing I enjoyed were watching my favourite players play and although you were KHAN scum and beat Fantasy too often, I still liked you T_T
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
Lets be honest here, yes Blizzard drove one of the, or the final nail in, but BW was not the healthy young esport it once was prior or during the whole legal battle. Remove SC2 from the equation all together and do you think BW would have maintained itself in light of the rise of other competitive esports like World of Tanks, Dota 2, LoL, etc?
What of the effects from the betting scandal, or lack of expansion and outreach to a global audience? I'm not arguing quality of the experience for viewers and players here, I'm just pointing out it was a bit too comfortable in its niche position to have continued in a commanding capacity for too much longer in face of having to deal with actual competition to its esport's status.
There are a lot of factors including Blizzard's handling of the situation for both BW and SC2 to place the fault ENTIRELY on their shoulders.
Big names are leaving, but its not like there is a shortage of players. Would there be as much of an uproar about the state of the scene if a BW B-teamer retired from SC2 instead of someone like Jangbi? Maybe the expected Elephant's effects didnt upset the state of the room as much as people had anticipated.
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think it could have competed with LoL. As for WoT and DotA 2 that's debatable. (please bare in mind WC3 and DotA 1 are still quite popular in China and to a somewhat lesser extent Korea)
But I do think it would have maintained some respectable numbers for a few more years. It certainly would have done better than SC2 in Korea.
Whatever the case, I would have liked to see Blizzard not meddling in it and letting it just run its course. Let it retire with dignity, instead of force it be put to sleep in favor of a successor that has thus far been very much unsuccessful in Korea.
When you're 60, do you want to try and live 15-20 more years, or would you rather someone just barge into your house and kill you randomly?
On August 29 2013 18:15 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Lets be honest here, yes Blizzard drove one of the, or the final nail in, but BW was not the healthy young esport it once was prior or during the whole legal battle. Remove SC2 from the equation all together and do you think BW would have maintained itself in light of the rise of other competitive esports like World of Tanks, Dota 2, LoL, etc?
I don't follow the SC2 scene but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like SC2 is doing too great either against these games? I have a hard time imagining that BW would have done worse. BW has an extremely loyal fanbase and a long established history in Korea.
On August 29 2013 18:15 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Lets be honest here, yes Blizzard drove one of the, or the final nail in, but BW was not the healthy young esport it once was prior or during the whole legal battle. Remove SC2 from the equation all together and do you think BW would have maintained itself in light of the rise of other competitive esports like World of Tanks, Dota 2, LoL, etc?
I don't follow the SC2 scene but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like SC2 is doing too great either against these games? I have a hard time imagining that BW would have done worse. BW has an extremely loyal fanbase and a long established history in Korea.
Its history, its legacy and its sheer depth as a game would have carried it forward. Again, most likely not a serious competitor to LoL, but it still would be doing quite well.
On August 29 2013 14:21 BisuDagger wrote: Can't wait to see him stream BW. SRT awaits him. And Brave needs an ally for ex khan players. Poor Stork though is all alone.
On August 29 2013 18:15 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: Lets be honest here, yes Blizzard drove one of the, or the final nail in, but BW was not the healthy young esport it once was prior or during the whole legal battle. Remove SC2 from the equation all together and do you think BW would have maintained itself in light of the rise of other competitive esports like World of Tanks, Dota 2, LoL, etc?
I don't follow the SC2 scene but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like SC2 is doing too great either against these games? I have a hard time imagining that BW would have done worse. BW has an extremely loyal fanbase and a long established history in Korea.
Its history, its legacy and its sheer depth as a game would have carried it forward. Again, most likely not a serious competitor to LoL, but it still would be doing quite well.
Do you really think so? I remember people worrying about how the last OSL and PL were delayed because no one wanted to sponsor them. It kinda seems like OGN was to forced to make the switch to attract sponsors, even if those deals were only based on the promise that ''BW's sequel'' would eventually reinvigorate the declining korean esports scene.
If only LoL had been released some months earlier... maybe it could've saved BW, much like it seems to be doing for SC2 right now.
On August 29 2013 14:21 BisuDagger wrote: Can't wait to see him stream BW. SRT awaits him. And Brave needs an ally for ex khan players. Poor Stork though is all alone.
Oh, the storms in SRT *ZerO grin*.. wait, I should be sad.
Some caller on ITG just discussed how protoss in SC2 doesn't feel like protoss in BW which is closer to the terran in SC2. Perhaps if Jangbi tried terran. Ugh, nevermind..
Of all the Brood War players to retire he was the one of the people I would have expected to do it the least, he was actually doing pretty damn well. Good luck with whatever he does in future
NOOO are you fucking kidding meeeeeeeeeeee ??????? what the fucckkk man we have no good protoss except rain now . our only hope was rain+jangbi the macro beasts and now is only rain alone .........
On August 29 2013 17:51 Pontius Pirate wrote: Guys, I hate to sound like I've got a tinfoil hat on, but I really don't think this is all about being bored with SC2. I think it's very likely that that is partially to blame, and that he feels Protoss isn't terribly fun, but I think the story is greatly oversimplifying his reasons for quitting. He's from the farthest city in SK from Seoul, so he probably doesn't get to see his family terribly often. He mentioned wanting to see his sister's wedding and his (potential) niece. He's got military service coming up in a year, and probably has only so much time he can get better. SC2 is a less remunerative career in Korea these days, and he probably was looking at his contract negotiations, comparing them with the years in which he was nearly top banana, and thinking "gee, this sucks!". Perhaps he felt that he was currently hitting a wall, much as Snute explored the psychology of in his recent blog. All of these were probably (except maybe hitting a wall, which is purely conjecture) on his mind and contributing to him not continuing his career.
South Korea has some of the best transport infastructure in the world so it's actually super quick to get from Seoul-Busan, probably quicker than Seoul-some of the cities in the middle since the trains run down the coast. Jangbi could probably get from whereever Smasung Khan live in Seoul to his families house in Busan in around 3.5 hours.
I think you're right that contract negotiations had something to do with it though. It might be possible to practice long hours of while not really enjoying the game/race/whatever when you're on that ace of the A team salary, but if they wanted to lower his salary it could definetly have made him question whether it was worth it to continue, and even possible to continue being a top player without that motivation.
On August 29 2013 14:43 larse wrote: I think we are approaching the day when all the BW big names retire.
Jangbi
Jaehoon
Best
and some other big names will be among the list. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Fantasy, etc.
Most likely Stork, possibly Bisu and Fantasy. If Flash doesn't get results soon, I think he might go as well. For some reason though I think JD will stay for a while.
agree. Stork, Bisu and Fantasy are doing horribly in SCII(Bisu best from all three).
Are you high? Fantasy's vastly outperformed Bisu in SC2
early on, yes he did. I think once HoTS released, Bisu started performing on par or better than Fantasy. I haven't seen Fantasy play in a while though so I could be wrong. As for stork, well, we can both agree he was the worst from all three XD
Bisu still has a ton to prove though man. Okay, so he got a few wins in PL. What has he done in Individual Leagues? In either case I don't see the worth in comparing players in a retirement thread. Difference is too small.
Bisu had a ton to prove on while he was in BW. Never actually won anything from the days of Savior! I always said he had not fighter's spirit, something that makes old veterans like JD still play.
Not sure I agree with this. Bisu was insanely strong in the '12 or '11 PL season, and focused well and fought hard even in the tense and high stakes games. He just had bad luck or nerves in the OSL.
On August 29 2013 19:30 endy wrote: I'm pretty sure Stork is next. I don't see him playing SC2 much longer with such awful results. SOSPA scene is about to become Protoss heavy.
Let's hope if becomes a little more Dragon heavy. BW needs Stork vs Bisu once again.
NO NO NO NO After the switch to SC2 I watched and read all games and interviews with JangBI, he was the example to me with his play and his attitude: hard work never betrays. In his 1st SC2 game he destroyed Iris with his storms, then he destroyed Jaedong with his dark templar build, from the beginning he shew smart builds and heavy micro. He was my very favorite player with Life and was the reason to watch SC2 and root so hard for him, I want to name my pet JangBi. Now I am really lost and I dunno when I can watch or play SC2 again without my favorite player and source of inspiration.
On August 29 2013 19:52 DiMano wrote: NO NO NO NO After the switch to SC2 I watched and read all games and interviews with JangBI, he was the example to me with his play and his attitude: hard work never betrays. In his 1st SC2 game he destroyed Iris with his storms, then he destroyed Jaedong with his dark templar build, from the beginning he shew smart builds and heavy micro. He was my very favorite player with Life and was the reason to watch SC2 and root so hard for him, I want to name my pet JangBi. Now I am really lost and I dunno when I can watch or play SC2 again without my favorite player and source of inspiration.
i somehow feel the same . man jangbi was such a monster i still remember jangbi vs TY . what a sick example of how to be a MACRO TOSS . and now this . i hope he would say what sucks at the game before leaving .
On August 29 2013 14:26 ShiroKaisen wrote: Unfortunately, I feel like this is gonna keep happening now that Woongjin is disbanding probably and KeSPA is restructuring. Hopefully they all come and play SOSPA at least. I want more Jangbi Carriers.
this happens again 2-3 times - I stop giving any fucks about the game at all, not like anyone would miss me.
Best news I've read today. Finally another one great bw player (hopefully) who joins Sonic's SRT. At least, I'm sure, he's gonna play on afreeca. So great! I'm pretty sure there are many more to come just to keep on playing good old Brood War!
On August 29 2013 20:03 riyanme wrote: in other news, STORK and BISU will announce their retirement............
On August 29 2013 14:47 lichter wrote: JD won't retire. He has got that competitive fire that won't die until he wins something.
For some reason, retirees are mostly protoss
Protoss players retiring is not really a big surprise. SC2 is a completely different game then SC1. They are like distant cousins.
On August 29 2013 14:26 ShiroKaisen wrote: Unfortunately, I feel like this is gonna keep happening now that Woongjin is disbanding probably and KeSPA is restructuring. Hopefully they all come and play SOSPA at least. I want more Jangbi Carriers.
Woongjin disbanding hasn't been in the news as far as I've seen. Through out a source with comments like that plz.
On August 29 2013 14:26 ShiroKaisen wrote: Unfortunately, I feel like this is gonna keep happening now that Woongjin is disbanding probably and KeSPA is restructuring. Hopefully they all come and play SOSPA at least. I want more Jangbi Carriers.
On August 29 2013 16:34 skylarr wrote: This breaks my heart. Players are leaving the game one after another. Congrats blizzard!
i'm sure this is blizzards fault.
It's Blizzard's fault for killing professional BW and forcing Kespa to switch to SC2 even though not all players enjoy the game.
Lets be honest here, yes Blizzard drove one of the, or the final nail in, but BW was not the healthy young esport it once was prior or during the whole legal battle. Remove SC2 from the equation all together and do you think BW would have maintained itself in light of the rise of other competitive esports like World of Tanks, Dota 2, LoL, etc?
What of the effects from the betting scandal, or lack of expansion and outreach to a global audience? I'm not arguing quality of the experience for viewers and players here, I'm just pointing out it was a bit too comfortable in its niche position to have continued in a commanding capacity for too much longer in face of having to deal with actual competition to its esport's status.
There are a lot of factors including Blizzard's handling of the situation for both BW and SC2 to place the fault ENTIRELY on their shoulders.
Big names are leaving, but its not like there is a shortage of players. Would there be as much of an uproar about the state of the scene if a BW B-teamer retired from SC2 instead of someone like Jangbi? Maybe the expected Elephant's effects didnt upset the state of the room as much as people had anticipated.
it really doesnt matter tbh if bw is not as pop as the other esports genres. the fact of the matter is esports will always have a rts, and right now sc2 is in that spotlight but its not doing a very good job at it.
the only thing sc2 has going for it atm is its strong western community base and is more accessible to current generation, 3d graphics and select all army, etc. but in terms of gameplay mechanics and depth, and its fun factor.. yeah its leaps and bounds behind bw..
Holy shit this is so fucking sad. I don't even know what to do now. Jangbi is my favorite protoss since Snow retired. It feels like some one just punched me in the stomach.
I think it was rather apparent to most viewers that he did not enjoy SC2 as much as he enjoyed dominating in BW. The game is new and is followed by thousands of aspiring pros, and in Korea the competition is hard it enough as it is and making it into the top ranks is a tremendous challenge.
As much as I really liked Jangbi and his playstyle, I think he made a good decision. If the game isn't interesting or fun for you then just don't play it anymore! I'd much rather see players retire for this reason than "Team X disbanded and player Y didn't know wtf to do so he decided to retire" or "The NA scene sucks and there isn't any competition/money left so player x decided to retire". Not that those aren't legit reasons to quit but guys like Jangbi and Stephano has done alot for starcraft and I'm sure they've both had a great time. They quit when they wanted to quit instead of being forced to so.
The worst part of this is that JangBi has been one of the most improved players as of late :/. If someone like Stork or Bisu retired it would make so much more sense.
On August 29 2013 19:03 GolemMadness wrote: Feels like so many retirements these days. Maybe not actually, but that's how it feels.
This is true, but people should keep in mind that august/september tends to be busy months in terms of acquirements and retirements. Just to name a few: - August 10, 2011, Hero join Teamliquid - August 16, 2011, HuK join EG (leaving Teamliquid) - September, 2010, Idra and Tasteless join EG - September 1, 2012, EG and SlayerS partnership comes to an end - September 10, 2012, Stephano join EG
There is a lot more, but the point is that people shouldn't panic because we have seen a few players retire within a short time. Universities often time begins in september, and august/sepemtber is also when player contracts end, which means that it is a good time to retire.
On August 29 2013 21:01 juvenal wrote: And don't you forget that Boxer, most of the PL teams captains (hoejja, leta, calm), FBH himself and almost entire AirForceAce have ninja retired too.
2007 – 2013-08-29 Samsung KHAN fuck my life
To present that information accurately, Boxer is the head coach for SKT and FBH is a caster for GOM. It's not like Boxer went 'this game is poo, I'm out.'
On August 29 2013 19:03 GolemMadness wrote: Feels like so many retirements these days. Maybe not actually, but that's how it feels.
This is true, but people should keep in mind that august/september tends to be busy months in terms of acquirements and retirements. Just to name a few: - August 10, 2011, Hero join Teamliquid - August 16, 2011, HuK join EG (leaving Teamliquid) - September, 2010, Idra and Tasteless join EG - September 1, 2012, EG and SlayerS partnership comes to an end - September 10, 2012, Stephano join EG
There is a lot more, but the point is that people shouldn't panic because we have seen a few players retire within a short time. Universities often time begins in september, and august/sepemtber is also when player contracts end, which means that it is a good time to retire.
I don't remember it being quite like that... 2010 and then 2011, I'd guess, without checking.
This is a huge surprise to me. There have been a few recently but this one blows the others out of the water. STX Soul finishing means even more to me actually (which might seem funny given that Woongjin just lost the finals to them) but it was less of a surprise. Both very sad news.
On August 29 2013 21:01 juvenal wrote: And don't you forget that Boxer, most of the PL teams captains (hoejja, leta, calm), FBH himself and almost entire AirForceAce have ninja retired too.
2007 – 2013-08-29 Samsung KHAN fuck my life
To present that information accurately, Boxer is the head coach for SKT and FBH is a caster for GOM. It's not like Boxer went 'this game is poo, I'm out.'
I'm not sure HoeJJa is retired either, not playing of course, but he still gets shown on camera occasionally when KT plays, and so far as I know is still captain.
On August 29 2013 21:01 juvenal wrote: And don't you forget that Boxer, most of the PL teams captains (hoejja, leta, calm), FBH himself and almost entire AirForceAce have ninja retired too.
2007 – 2013-08-29 Samsung KHAN fuck my life
To present that information accurately, Boxer is the head coach for SKT and FBH is a caster for GOM. It's not like Boxer went 'this game is poo, I'm out.'
the point is we will not see them play nevermore. Sad huh? And yeah, I am happy they got job in the industry they were born in, they're probably ok with it now.
On August 29 2013 18:50 paradoxOO9 wrote: Of all the Brood War players to retire he was the one of the people I would have expected to do it the least, he was actually doing pretty damn well. Good luck with whatever he does in future
Doing well and having fun with a game is not the same.
I didn't see this one coming. He said he plans to take a year off before doing his military service, so I wonder if he will be streaming some BW during that time.
I mean he tells Kim Carrier carriers suck in the current map pool, and then brings it out in game one out of no where (I guess mind games), and WINS with it. Such a champ.
oh boy.... bisu and stork to be the next ones probably. once their current contracts run out, they would most likely have to take big paycuts, which would probably be a reason to say "i dont wanna put up with this game that i dont genuinely enjoy anymore".
sigh. this is a double-edged sword for me. sad because he's only my 2nd fave player, after flash. but i'm also glad that he's not just settling for something he doesn't truly love to do. i don't think this is about lack of success in sc2 at all. he was in the most prestigious sc2 league (sorry wcs season finals, i still think you're a farce ) and could only go up from there. anyway, i'm expecting him to stream broodwar and he better!
if flash retires from sc2, i'll quit following it as well
On August 29 2013 19:03 GolemMadness wrote: Feels like so many retirements these days. Maybe not actually, but that's how it feels.
This is true, but people should keep in mind that august/september tends to be busy months in terms of acquirements and retirements. Just to name a few: - August 10, 2011, Hero join Teamliquid - August 16, 2011, HuK join EG (leaving Teamliquid) - September, 2010, Idra and Tasteless join EG - September 1, 2012, EG and SlayerS partnership comes to an end - September 10, 2012, Stephano join EG
There is a lot more, but the point is that people shouldn't panic because we have seen a few players retire within a short time. Universities often time begins in september, and august/sepemtber is also when player contracts end, which means that it is a good time to retire.
I don't remember it being quite like that... 2010 and then 2011, I'd guess, without checking.
On August 29 2013 17:22 Zealously wrote: I wish people would stop taking cheap shots at BW and/or SC2 whenever players retire, come on
This is the Brood War forum what were you expecting
Some dignity would be nice but maybe I'm an optimist
Looking past faults is something that naniwa fans are good at, surely you can look past the bw forums problems.
This community seriously depresses me sometimes with the bitchyness of some of our more frequent posters. They take every chance they get to take a stab at another member or a pro player. Or in this case 2 for the price of one. It's like watching the Real Housewives of Team Liquid. Growing up a bit would be appear to be a good idea. A cliche suggestion however you'd be surprised how little you want to take shots at people every chance you get when you start to realize your perspective is more important than anything and from there you really star to grow as a person.
----------------------- ---------------------------------- Anyway....as someone who never watched bw pro scene and yet still knew the name Jangbi I had been eagerly anticipating his return to being one of the top tier players of sc2; similar as to what Jaedong.has accomplished. He finally got into Code S recently and it was looking to only continue rising upward. So this is some truly unfortunate news, but since he's leaving not exactly on top not having won anything at all really, he still at least proved himself in SC2 by performing well enough to make it into Code S.
Sad day indeed half the six dragons are gone....only bisu, stork, pretty remain....thanks for the memories jangbi. Ill akways remember ambushing you at blizzcon 08/09 for an autograph moments before you took the stage.
I love how someone retiring from SC2 is put in the BW section because everyone assumes he'll join SOSPA.
Is JangBi the first SC2 pro to quit explicitly because of not liking SC2? I imagine he won't be the last (Bisubisubisu). SC2 Protoss is such a bland race
On August 29 2013 23:07 Ribbon wrote: I love how someone retiring from SC2 is put in the BW section because everyone assumes he'll join SOSPA.
Is JangBi the first SC2 pro to quit explicitly because of not liking SC2? I imagine he won't be the last (Bisubisubisu). SC2 Protoss is such a bland race
There are several players who have already done so and on record for saying they didn't have the same drive.
On August 29 2013 23:07 Ribbon wrote: I love how someone retiring from SC2 is put in the BW section because everyone assumes he'll join SOSPA.
Is JangBi the first SC2 pro to quit explicitly because of not liking SC2? I imagine he won't be the last (Bisubisubisu). SC2 Protoss is such a bland race
I noticed that the last three high profile retirements of ex-BW pros were protoss. Keeping all their units in a tight ball must be boring the shit out of ex-BW protoss. Especially the more aggressive ones like Jangbi and Bisu. Not Stork, though. He loves his carrier deathballs.
On August 29 2013 23:10 ETisME wrote: this should be put in starcraft 2 forum too, I almost missed this
It's in the Community News so it's visible for everyone and not only for those who keeps an eye on the bw forum. Seems a bit odd though as Jangbi and all the others who switched retired there and then as far as bw goes.
It occurs to me than anyone in KeSPA inclined to like SC2 probably switched right when SC2 came out (a lot of the first wave SC2 pros were KeSPA B-Teamers), so the ones who stuck around in KeSPA either were making too much money to switch, or didn't like SC2. Now that we're in the offseason, more retirements likely to come.
Oh man, R.I.P another BW legend. I guess it's good to retire in your prime, but it's a little sad too, Jangbi was one of the players I was most looking forward to watching in this season's code s
Hopefully he hasn't lost his passion for bw and we'll see him in some of the bw tournaments/leagues.
I'm so conflicted about this. Losing Jangbi is a tremendous loss, but if we get back BW Jangbi what an incredible victory. Please let the clouds darken as the stormking returns!
JangBi winning the OSL was such a magical, fairy tale story, at a time when everything else was shit. Had he not won, I'm not sure I'd have continued to watch StarCraft... so I'm rather grateful to him for that.
I wish him well, wherever his life takes him from here.
On August 30 2013 00:15 chesshaha wrote: The last BW OSL Champ! Thanks for the amazing games!
Even Jangbi really didn't do good in SC2, but he's BW career was remarkable.
Did you watch his games??? He was the best ace player in SPL and was top 3 protoss overall after Rain and sOs. Such players as JangBi are diamonds which make this game popular.
Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
A lot of you seem to be forgetting that although guys like BeSt and co. are making brief returns to BW they still have military service come this September.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
When i saw this thread in the sidebar i was like slaped right in the face. Jangbi who become my very first favorite player in the Jin Air OSL, the man who made the best OSL final ive ever seen. There is no such feeling delivered by any BW player or game to me before the rise of his legend.
Sadly this was only for a short time, cuz sc2 ruined it, now its even more sad cuz he is retiring. What a career he couldve had if this shitty sc2 wasnt killed BW.
Bows to you almighty hero, the greatest of them all!
I have hope that he will join Sospa scene, cuz in an interview after the last BW OSL he said that BW is sacred thing for him. A game that has inspired him to achieve what he is known for, to be the champion. He said also that he will play BW even if there is no one still playing it. Much love for you JangBang, hope to see you soon in BW!
On August 30 2013 00:42 _Animus_ wrote: When i saw this thread in the sidebar i was like slaped right in the face. Jangbi who become my very first favorite player in the Jin Air OSL, the man who made the best OSL final ive ever seen. There is no such feeling delivered by any BW player or game to me before the rise of his legend.
Sadly this was only for a short time, cuz sc2 ruined it, now its even more sad cuz he is retiring. What a career he couldve had if this shitty sc2 wasnt killed BW.
Bows to you almighty hero, the greatest of them all!
I have hope that he will join Sospa scene, cuz in an interview after the last BW OSL he said that BW is sacred thing for him. A game that has inspired him to achieve what he is known for, to be the champion. He said also that he will play BW even if there is no one still playing it. Much love for you JangBang, hope to see you soon in BW!
Oh god it is not SC2 what ruined it is the shift of popularity to LoL and even WoT and lack of SC2 leagues in korea stop being stupid BW fans I like BW and SC2 and I will never say bad things about these games.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
I thought it said he would take a year off? A lot can change in that time, by then the scene might be strong enough for him to stay. Also you are right he wont be playing SCII but he will be playing BW. As a BW fan I would rather see him stream on snipelot and play in SOSPA then in Code S.
Sigh another one of the greats falls due to this horrible game (thanks blizz), I so want BW proleague back, that stuff was magical and so much fun to watch.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
I thought it said he would take a year off? A lot can change in that time, by then the scene might be strong enough for him to stay. Also you are right he wont be playing SCII but he will be playing BW. As a BW fan I would rather see him stream on snipelot and play in SOSPA then in Code S.
hm true. It does say the year part, I forgot in my grief sorry. It's still a tragedy imo. I can see why you're happy to (probably) see him play some more bw though.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Kespa in general seems to be losing steam in SC2 with players retiring/teams disbanding. We'll see where this goes, but I don't like the look of someone as successful as Jangbi retiring.
I'd love to see him play a couple of Sonic events, but this makes me sad. He seemed to start to dominate after a long average career at the end of BW and then *puff* Blizzard steps in and ruins his potential career.
Wooo! Hopefully if when enough high profile players express their disinterest in the game they will focus more on brood war. I look forward to seeing him play on sonic
On August 30 2013 00:42 _Animus_ wrote: When i saw this thread in the sidebar i was like slaped right in the face. Jangbi who become my very first favorite player in the Jin Air OSL, the man who made the best OSL final ive ever seen. There is no such feeling delivered by any BW player or game to me before the rise of his legend.
Sadly this was only for a short time, cuz sc2 ruined it, now its even more sad cuz he is retiring. What a career he couldve had if this shitty sc2 wasnt killed BW.
Bows to you almighty hero, the greatest of them all!
I have hope that he will join Sospa scene, cuz in an interview after the last BW OSL he said that BW is sacred thing for him. A game that has inspired him to achieve what he is known for, to be the champion. He said also that he will play BW even if there is no one still playing it. Much love for you JangBang, hope to see you soon in BW!
Oh god it is not SC2 what ruined it is the shift of popularity to LoL and even WoT and lack of SC2 leagues in korea stop being stupid BW fans I like BW and SC2 and I will never say bad things about these games.
LOL SC2 is so fucked up that a child can see it, thats a big baloon in which companies throw big money to keep it flying, its just that in Korea the baloon has been popped, because Koreans have better understanding of the two games than most of the global sc2 spectators and players. Also hearing from SC2 players and reading posts here, it seems like many of them lose interest in the game. Blizzard messed up all of the race characteristics which is hell for the switching players, making nothing like sequel of the first game, not to mention how unentertaining and shallow is compared to the its predecessor. Its shame how far SC2 is from the Starcraft form and spirit. How about the visual design? Older rts games like CnC 3 and Universe At War, did much greater job at looking realistic, epic and inspiring. SC2 has so many animations that makes no sense and its all dark and monotonous. It would have been a good game if it was not pretending to be a superrior sequel.
That's sad. Guess I can change my khan insignia though.
Wonder if we'll see an inteview with his honest opinion about SC2. Hopefully blizz will read it and make the changes the game desperately needs to be somewhat as interesting as BW.
On August 30 2013 01:17 Sabu113 wrote: That's sad. Guess I can change my khan insignia though.
Wonder if we'll see an inteview with his honest opinion about SC2. Hopefully blizz will read it and make the changes the game desperately needs to be somewhat as interesting as BW.
Whether or not we'll see an interview like that with JangBi, I have no clue. But I do know that if he speaks his real mind on the topic, Blizzard's public response (if any) will be "we appreciate your feedback and will look into these issues very closely" while in reality doing nothing more than writing him off as a nostalgic / someone who couldn't adapt etc etc.
Just like they did with the chunk of the community that has spoken out so many times on SC2's game design.
With the renovation of kespa may be it will be possible to gather a solid amateur scene, find a sponsor and run the shit as the official kespa event? Gaining more attention, probably gathering more ex-pros. One can dream.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
Why would any BW fan be sad about potentially seeing him play BW for a year? It's not like he was forced or made to quit SC2, he made the decision for himself. So as a JangBi fan I want him to do what makes him happy; and as a BW fan, I would be really happy about seeing him play BW for a year.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
Protoss being badly designed isn't a balance whine. It's widely agreed that they're the most boring race because they can't split up their army effectively and just kind of death ball. Even Blizzard has all but said as much, given David Kim's comments on the oracle every other interview. When a Terran plays against a Zerg or another Terran, there's at least the hope of a Brood War quality TvT or Brood War quality TvZ, even if it doesn't happen nearly often enough. But Protoss? I've never seen an r/starcraft thread about "OMG this PvZ game was so good!".
It's no surprise it's all the KeSPA protoss retiring.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
Why would any BW fan be sad about potentially seeing him play BW for a year? It's not like he was forced or made to quit SC2, he made the decision for himself. So as a JangBi fan I want him to do what makes him happy; and as a BW fan, I would be really happy about seeing him play BW for a year.
Any time one of your favourite players retire it's sad. I'm a fan of Jangbi more than I am of him playing amatuer broodwar for a year. I'd still like to see him play sc2. This doesn't not make me a bw fan, it just makes me want to see my favourite player not retire.
On August 30 2013 01:28 juvenal wrote: With the renovation of kespa may be it will be possible to gather a solid amateur scene, find a sponsor and run the shit as the official kespa event? Gaining more attention, probably gathering more ex-pros. One can dream.
If many dream about it, it becomes a reality. lol im no joking infact there are scientific proof on how collective thought can shape the real life. Too lazy too bring some articles but if anyone is interested search it. So better keep on dreaming.
sad to see a legend go. He played protoss in bw the way nobody else could. he took Protoss to a new level a new platform in skill and tenacity. It would have been fun to see Jangbi show the world what Protoss is really capable of in SC2, but i guess he didn't find the game appealing enough to try to take Protoss to the next level. THis is very sad to see this stud of a player just fly off into the wind and not be heard of again.
On August 30 2013 01:41 Ribbon wrote: But Protoss? I've never seen an r/starcraft thread about "OMG this PvZ game was so good!".
It's no surprise it's all the KeSPA protoss retiring.
Hey it happened once!
In the grim days where PvZ was "cheese/all-in every game or die", a young up and comer by the name of SlayerS`Brown qualified for Code A and went straight into Code S after beating LosirA in the Ro24 with a 3-base macro style Protoss. Sadly he got nuked in the following season of Code S and never really accomplished anything from that point on.
Now jokes aside, I very much agree with your post.
On August 30 2013 01:41 Ribbon wrote: It's no surprise it's all the KeSPA protoss retiring.
Honestly I find it's quite sad they'd stick to their race despite it not playing in the same way as it did in Brood War... I think it would be worth a shot to change races, but if they're at the point where they've completely lost any interest in or passion for SC2 then there's no helping it. Can't really blame them either way.
It will be interesting to see what are Dusting Browder and David Kim's response will be. These individuals and their team member are highly talented and hard working, and I can assure you that people like them do not want to go down in history as a part of the team that fucked up the Starcraft franchise. Lotv will be their last chance of redemption but it might be too far down the road.
I sincerely hope that Blizzard will prove me wrong.
blizzard HAS to make more radical changes in LotV to revive interest in the game, not just add 1 or 2 gimmicky units for each race (cough swarm host). if that means that the major mechanics have to be reworked (warpgates, mech, etc) then so be it.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
how is JD and flash protoss players ? tell me another kick ass toss that is great at sc2 and was GOSU in broodwar . bisu ? stork ? jangbi ? y sure . jangbi and rain are the best macro protoss players. other protoss players mix in allins more often then any othre races .
On August 30 2013 02:00 ballasdontcry wrote: blizzard HAS to make more radical changes in LotV to revive interest in the game, not just add 1 or 2 gimmicky units for each race (cough swarm host). if that means that the major mechanics have to be reworked (warpgates, mech, etc) then so be it.
also add in high ground mechanics. the fact that sc2 does not have high ground mechanics is completely ridiculous
On August 30 2013 02:00 ballasdontcry wrote: blizzard HAS to make more radical changes in LotV to revive interest in the game, not just add 1 or 2 gimmicky units for each race (cough swarm host). if that means that the major mechanics have to be reworked (warpgates, mech, etc) then so be it.
also add in high ground mechanics. the fact that sc2 does not have high ground mechanics is completely ridiculous
I want this! It also allows you to defend with much less and will break the deathball a bit more imo. Still, can't wait to see Jangbi stream some BW.
On August 30 2013 02:00 ballasdontcry wrote: blizzard HAS to make more radical changes in LotV to revive interest in the game, not just add 1 or 2 gimmicky units for each race (cough swarm host). if that means that the major mechanics have to be reworked (warpgates, mech, etc) then so be it.
I think that most people would agree with out. The problem is that DB and DK appear to be too proud for their own good when it comes to their previous designs.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
Why would any BW fan be sad about potentially seeing him play BW for a year? It's not like he was forced or made to quit SC2, he made the decision for himself. So as a JangBi fan I want him to do what makes him happy; and as a BW fan, I would be really happy about seeing him play BW for a year.
Any time one of your favourite players retire it's sad. I'm a fan of Jangbi more than I am of him playing amatuer broodwar for a year. I'd still like to see him play sc2. This doesn't not make me a bw fan, it just makes me want to see my favourite player not retire.
Why is that sad? He said it himself that he lost interest in SC2. So you would rather have him do something that he's not enjoying than something that makes him happy; what kind of fan are you? It sounds like you're not a fan of JangBi, but a fan of JangBi playing SC2.
my favorite dragon .... (after bisu ofc) It's truly unfortunate (both for the scene and him), that the BW scene had to die right when he was about to peak.
On August 30 2013 03:03 EpiK wrote: my favorite dragon .... (after bisu ofc) It's truly unfortunate (both for the scene and him), that the BW scene had to die right when he was about to peak.
Hm, I always think he profited from the game(BW) not being played 100% anymore. Still, he definitely emerged from his slump in a really awesome way, Jangbi, paeh-wang no more.
On August 30 2013 03:18 HaFnium wrote: I do not think he was ever interested in SC2....
it's debatable imo. Obviously not as much as KeSPA B-teamers who switched when it released but it's possible that he relished the thought of another starcraft game to dominate. Alas, it was not to his liking if we take his statement at face value and ignore his previous statements.
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
Why would any BW fan be sad about potentially seeing him play BW for a year? It's not like he was forced or made to quit SC2, he made the decision for himself. So as a JangBi fan I want him to do what makes him happy; and as a BW fan, I would be really happy about seeing him play BW for a year.
Any time one of your favourite players retire it's sad. I'm a fan of Jangbi more than I am of him playing amatuer broodwar for a year. I'd still like to see him play sc2. This doesn't not make me a bw fan, it just makes me want to see my favourite player not retire.
Why is that sad? He said it himself that he lost interest in SC2. So you would rather have him do something that he's not enjoying than something that makes him happy; what kind of fan are you? It sounds like you're not a fan of JangBi, but a fan of JangBi playing SC2.
this. If you're a fan of a player then you should be happy if they stop playing a game they don't like because otherwise they are forced into playing it. If you're sad about that, well, dunno what kind of fan you are then lol.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
Yes he said it more than once and also that he regretted to not have chosen protoss.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
Wish granted:
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
Flash: I am still regretting about that even to today. When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out. The most urgent thing about SC2’s Terran is to ameliorate mech. In BW, going bio or going mech is a choice and will make your opponent guessing and confused. But now SC2 is 100% bio, so you can’t play mind game and you don’t have strategic choice.
And to his point, other people have stated in interviews a while back that Terran would fit Bisu better, but that is something I don't remember with any degree of accuracy or can be bothered to scour for. It might've been Coach Park, it might have been some Kespa pro, I don't know.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
I can verify he said this, that SCII protoss plays like BW terran. "Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
Flash: I am still regretting about that even to today. When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out. The most urgent thing about SC2’s Terran is to ameliorate mech. In BW, going bio or going mech is a choice and will make your opponent guessing and confused. But now SC2 is 100% bio, so you can’t play mind game and you don’t have strategic choice." Link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426074
But seriously, I'm surprised that there aren't more KeSPA players retiring right now(I guess we will see over the coming months). To be honest, though, I felt little emotion when I saw this news, but I think that's because I chose to not see SC2 as a legitimate successor to BW, but as an abomination that arose after BW was sacrificed on the altar of ESPORTS by Blizzard.
Here's a game of Jangbi that I subbed more than a year ago if anyone's interested:
Here is the associated thread if anyone's interested in that as well.
But seriously, I'm surprised that there aren't more KeSPA players retiring right now(I guess we will see over the coming months). To be honest, though, I felt little emotion when I saw this news, but I think that's because I chose to not see SC2 as a legitimate successor to BW, but as an abomination that arose after BW was sacrificed on the altar of ESPORTS by Blizzard.
Here's a game of Jangbi that I subbed more than a year ago if anyone's interested:
But seriously, I'm surprised that there aren't more KeSPA players retiring right now(I guess we will see over the coming months). To be honest, though, I felt little emotion when I saw this news, but I think that's because I chose to not see SC2 as a legitimate successor to BW, but as an abomination that arose after BW was sacrificed on the altar of ESPORTS by Blizzard.
Here's a game of Jangbi that I subbed more than a year ago if anyone's interested:
But seriously, I'm surprised that there aren't more KeSPA players retiring right now(I guess we will see over the coming months). To be honest, though, I felt little emotion when I saw this news, but I think that's because I chose to not see SC2 as a legitimate successor to BW, but as an abomination that arose after BW was sacrificed on the altar of ESPORTS by Blizzard.
Here's a game of Jangbi that I subbed more than a year ago if anyone's interested:
Wow, that's huge for me. I always liked Jangbi a lot. He was by far my favorite BW Toss. It was amazing to see him rise again with 2 OSL victories after his looooonng slump. Secondly it was interesting to see that he has shown a lot of potential in SC 2 and became better and better in PL. Wish him all the best for his future.
But seriously, I'm surprised that there aren't more KeSPA players retiring right now(I guess we will see over the coming months). To be honest, though, I felt little emotion when I saw this news, but I think that's because I chose to not see SC2 as a legitimate successor to BW, but as an abomination that arose after BW was sacrificed on the altar of ESPORTS by Blizzard.
Here's a game of Jangbi that I subbed more than a year ago if anyone's interested:
aaaaaaaaaaa ssibal! Janngbi my favorite protosshero,,, Im very sad for ur career, however i dont care about sc2 never watched u there. You where the best protoss in SCBW and i love you for it, and i hope to se you back in scbw playing for the love of THE game!!!!!!!!! <33
i was so happy to see him in code s and now this happens he really hates sc2 when he gave up code s spot, money in it and everything... old kings can't live in new age!
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
Why would any BW fan be sad about potentially seeing him play BW for a year? It's not like he was forced or made to quit SC2, he made the decision for himself. So as a JangBi fan I want him to do what makes him happy; and as a BW fan, I would be really happy about seeing him play BW for a year.
this. You can't expect BW fans to be sad because he quit sc2. I have lost all interest in sc2 over a year ago, so what? But ex pros retiring is GOOD news for me, when they are going to stream BW. Those two games share their player pool of korean pro's, so your loss is my gain.
Didn't he create some cute openers for PvZ in SC2? (Sorry, not super big on the recently-transitioned BW Protoss players outside of JD and Flash.) It'll be sad to see that creativity leave SC2.
On August 30 2013 03:31 ooDi wrote: ..........WHAT???????? gives up his code S and go back to his hometown...? what is going on?
Yeah, I never really understood why people retire when they're in a similar case. Don't practice when you decide you want to retire but finish out any leagues you're in if they're as big as Code S. You might win a few extra dollars.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
Anyone who have any knowledge of BW can easily see this and dont really need an interview but I am sure someone already provided one anyways. It no brainer that terran in BW were the "turtle" race since terran had to go mech thus being very similiar to protoss but they also had the choice to go bio too in TvZ but any other match up they had to play a turtle mech style. Protoss style in BW revolve around a bunch of tier 1 (zealot and dragoon) units similar to terran going bio and playing very aggressive with them.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
Anyone who have any knowledge of BW can easily see this and dont really need an interview but I am sure someone already provided one anyways. It no brainer that terran in BW were the "turtle" race since terran had to go mech thus being very similiar to protoss but they also had the choice to go bio too in TvZ but any other match up they had to play a turtle mech style. Protoss style in BW revolve around a bunch of tier 1 (zealot and dragoon) units similar to terran going bio and playing very aggressive with them.
says unmanly terran
fantasy, hiya, berserker, go.go (yeah I know T_T), turn (at the end) would kindly disagree
protoss style in BW revolved around being a faggot excellent strategist in proxying, gas stealing, 10/15 gating, dt rushing, arbiter recalling (okay that's fair), 12 nexing, and macroing.
JangBi fulfilled his prophecy in the final year of Broodwar. I understand why there's no need for him to play SC2. I only hope he follows Best's example and gives Sospa a try before he does his service.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
Anyone who have any knowledge of BW can easily see this and dont really need an interview but I am sure someone already provided one anyways. It no brainer that terran in BW were the "turtle" race since terran had to go mech thus being very similiar to protoss but they also had the choice to go bio too in TvZ but any other match up they had to play a turtle mech style. Protoss style in BW revolve around a bunch of tier 1 (zealot and dragoon) units similar to terran going bio and playing very aggressive with them.
says unmanly terran
fantasy, hiya, berserker, go.go (yeah I know T_T), turn (at the end) would kindly disagree
protoss style in BW revolved around being a faggot excellent strategist in proxying, gas stealing, 10/15 gating, dt rushing, arbiter recalling (okay that's fair), 12 nexing, and macroing.
I couldn't help laughing at your cross out XD gas steals by P were a pain to deal with when I played Terran. The BW protoss = SCII Terran is quite interesting. Completely missed how dragoons are almost like marauders(in the sense of level and path to get them) etc...
On August 30 2013 00:36 ChoiSulli wrote: Its easy to see who the BW fans are here, everyone really excited!!! SCII fans have nothing to be sad about though. You can probably storm like Jangbi yourself in SCII ^^, we have been missing Jangbi storms in BW for 2 years. This is like the reverse of when BW players first started switching to SCII... Jangbi is going to bring with him a tone of fans (girls particularly) and will probably give courage to more players to do the same. Im hoping this is the start of something real big. Jangbi Hwaiting!
What the fuck are you talking about? Heaps of bw fans are sad. For one, no more games in sc2 - you don't need to hate sc2 to like bw. And two, he's going to the military - not bw. That's 2 years out. Who knows if he'll even play either game when he's out.
Why would any BW fan be sad about potentially seeing him play BW for a year? It's not like he was forced or made to quit SC2, he made the decision for himself. So as a JangBi fan I want him to do what makes him happy; and as a BW fan, I would be really happy about seeing him play BW for a year.
this. You can't expect BW fans to be sad because he quit sc2. I have lost all interest in sc2 over a year ago, so what? But ex pros retiring is GOOD news for me, when they are going to stream BW. Those two games share their player pool of korean pro's, so your loss is my gain.
I understand your optimism, but it doesn't really sound like he's going to be playing BW all that much either. I'm sure he's put his life on hold for his progaming career, and now that he's accepting his military service, he's got a lot of catching up to do.
That's pretty much how I read 'going home to take a year off' anyways.
On August 29 2013 14:18 Msr wrote: good decision by him. Amazing player that is not able to showcase his skills with how stupidly protoss is designed in sc2. Sad to see him go though.
If Protoss has such a stupid design then how do great elephants like Rain perform so well? Janbi just doesn't have the drive that JD or Flash or Innovation have. He's not motivated so he just chose to give up.
I'd like to point out that even FlaSh himself (among other pros) pointed out there's a discrepancy between how the races play out in Brood War and how they play out in SC2, and that SC2 Protoss plays very much like BW Terran.
Maybe Sun is better at adapting to this different style than JangBi is.
Do you even have any proof that flash stated this? Or did you just "hear it in some interview video and now you can't find it."?
Anyone who have any knowledge of BW can easily see this and dont really need an interview but I am sure someone already provided one anyways. It no brainer that terran in BW were the "turtle" race since terran had to go mech thus being very similiar to protoss but they also had the choice to go bio too in TvZ but any other match up they had to play a turtle mech style. Protoss style in BW revolve around a bunch of tier 1 (zealot and dragoon) units similar to terran going bio and playing very aggressive with them.
It's not just Flash; Rainbow said that's why he played Terran in SC2, because the harassment options reminded him the most of Reaver dropping. This was during the open seasons, sorry I can't find the specific vod.
There's also an old cast of Artosis having fun with talking about why MKP changed from Protoss to Terran ("Marauders are kinda like Dragoons and 'T' is still the button he presses when he wants to kill everything").
Plus, there's Artosis who went from BW Terran to SC2 Zerg (because Zerg was OP during Beta) and now happily turtles away as SC2 Protoss.
Some of the responses in this thread really piss me off. Stop whining about Protoss design or SC2 sucking or anything. This is about Jangbi and his retirement.
YEEES! Another Protoss to come back to BW! This is so great although Stork too please. In one month I expect the power ranking to be Killer Jangbi and Sea!
On August 30 2013 08:01 RowdierBob wrote: Jangbi Never had much love for protosses, but Jangbi was the truest Protoss hero since Garimto took down Boxer.
On August 30 2013 08:06 Brutaxilos wrote: Some of the responses in this thread really piss me off. Stop whining about Protoss design or SC2 sucking or anything. This is about Jangbi and his retirement.
That's gonna be pretty hard when Jangbi actually states 'I'm not interested in SC2' as his reason. A lot of pros would avoid saying that, so it carries some weight that he said it anyway. Jangbi is the guy that in interviews during the last OSL said he wanted to keep playing BW in PCBangs even after it was gone. Whenever a BW pro retires it is always going to feel like an implicit criticism of what happened.
It's pure conjecture, but it's easy to imagine Jangbi getting into the code S and thinking 'I don't even care' or 'I don't even feel excited about it' and deciding it was time to go. Jangbi could have said something like 'I want to spend some time with my family before I go to the army,' but that's not what he said at all, even though (of those I've met) Koreans are very family-minded.
You've gotta keep it in context. Every BW pro that became anything and got on the A team gave up a lot to do that. 'I will practice 12 hours a day and give up other aspects of my life because this is so important.' That's why I think someone can get into Code S and think "I don't care." It's the same sacrifice for something way less meaningful to him. He loses his agency 'I decided to become a pro gamer and play BW' and has to think 'I tried to make the best of this and be positive, but it still feels wrong.'
Fans have sympathy for the pros that were forced to switch and didn't like it, and they're going to express it. If it pisses you off that people feel sorry for Jangbi and how things went down, and that they've chosen to blame SC2... don't read replies in a thread like this cause it was never going to be anything else. SOSPA is the embodiment of this phenomenon.
Following that thought but less directed at you: For me one of the things I liked most about Jangbi is that he was a player with a lot of heart. He always said in interviews he was going to have fun with the match, even in an important final. This retirement feels like an extension of that. Something doesn't feel right in his heart about it, and he's listening to that. He doesn't wanna play if his heart is not in it, even if he could nab some prize money. I respect that a lot.
I have had zero interest in SC2 for a while now too. If you don't have that drive/motivation/ambition, then what's the point? I don't blame him in the least.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
I have a special place in my heart for Jangbi. I had long loved watching PL and being on the edge of my seat in tense situations. But Jangbi's OSLs had me jumping like a little school girl hiked up on sugar. It was the last time BW made me feel that way and I am so glad I got to experience it. A protoss actually being the best. I wasn't around for the age of the dragons, so this was really special for me. I wish him the best as he brought great joy to my heart. I hope he hops on SSL to stomp some terrans here and there.
didn't expect this, what an odd timing to do so. At least play your code S games still i'd say.. Or do like stephano and announce retirement before the tournament but still play it..
Well said Chef, I am just glad he said that his reason for retirement was because he didnt enjoy the game rather than making up an excuse. I am sure most of the retirement from BW player was because they didnt enjoy the game because they have work their entire life on perfecting BW and to have that taken away from them, I couldnt even imagine. Just glad he was true with himself till the end.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
where is everyone getting that WJS is going down????? Haven't read anything about it.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
where is everyone getting that WJS is going down????? Haven't read anything about it.
Woongjin Holdings Co is doing really bad at the moment. Arguably worse than STX (probably around as bad) the last time I researched their situations. Also in lots of debt and one of their subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy, iirc.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
where is everyone getting that WJS is going down????? Haven't read anything about it.
The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
Looks like you don't know how many kids were trying to get into pro teams back in bw days. Number of teams doesn't exactly reflect the talent pool from amateur kids.
As a casual esport viewer and zerg player I was loyal to the dong in bw. Little by little however I became aware of Jangbi and fell in love with his smart, creative and exciting play. I saw him not as a tyrant like jaedong or an unimpressed God like flash, but as a humble man with a playful and kind spirit, who possessed the power to destroy an empire or shake the heavens above.
I began to follow this fearless protoss player on his journey. I watched him stumble, and being the flawed human I am, began to wonder if he was really the hero I imagined. With the emergence of sc2 it appeared the end of bw was nearing. The statues of legends were being placed in the sc pantheon while the bw warriors were preparing for their final battles. Who would emerge the ultimate champion, who would write the last chapter, and would the forces of good or the forces of evil prevail?
Jaedong and flash would shrug off their defeats, and it appeared that a jester, a destructive terrorist with no concept of reality, would be the last player standing. But Jangbi was on a mission. Not driven by power or greed but by the desire to show the people that good exists, and that in the end, it will triumph. Jangbi fought his way to the finals, destroying those who stood in the way of true justice. When he ran out of energy to storm, it seemed the units themselves came to life and fought for him. Jangbi became champion, and when the forces of evil rearmed for the following season, Jangbi would defeat them again in even more impressive fashion.
Following the final starleagues, I was reluctant to join the warriors of bw as they moved into the sc2 realm, but I would not abandon Jangbi as he adjusted to the new world. I watched him develop and once again began to see shimmers of the almighty forces within him. I was excited to see his current form, to see if he would dominate yet again.
And so I was saddened and confused by his retirement on the eve of a prestigious tournament. Jangbi's retirement makes me feel alone and lost in the land of esports. It makes me question: how am I still going to be way to into this stuff? And: Why would he leave us now?
First off, it's a boss move and Jangbi's a total boss, but it's also because like obi-wan kenobi, Jangbi is not consumed by power and recognition but by his passion to do the right thing. Jangbi accomplished his mission and fulfilled his legacy. The battle between good and evil will always rage on, and Jangbi realizes its time for him to step aside. Jangbi would not leave us if he thought justice was in jeopardy, and so his departure should bring us fans who feel lost a little bit of comfort, and give us faith, that a new hope will emerge.
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
Looks like you don't know how many kids were trying to get into pro teams back in bw days. Number of teams doesn't exactly reflect the talent pool from amateur kids.
Looks like you haven't followed a scene with a truly dried up talent pool before. Just because the number's lower than it was in BW days doesn't mean it's anywhere close to drying up.
On August 30 2013 12:10 Aeleron wrote: Wouldn't Jangbi be the first BW champion to compete in SSL/SRT? (if he does)
Reach has competed in one I think, none of the recent champions have for sure (since they were all kespa contracted), but some of the older champs have probably competed (dunno if Garimto has competed, but he'd be a possibility, basically look for people from that kinda of era, pre oov/nada).
edit: apparently Anytime has also competed in an SRT, reach was only in some kind of legends match though.
Wow, this is crazy. Jangbi has been a monster in Proleague for SC2. Maybe not up to his tip top form, but still a beast. I guess he just wasn't enjoying it anymore.
Title says: Jangbi retires To me, what it really means: more possible talent incoming to SOSPA!
Sorry to those that enjoyed his SC2 games, but I'm sure it's fairly exciting news to some of us. I hear Jaehoon is out as well? Prospect of two of my favourite Protosses possibly playing BW again: sweet!
On August 30 2013 14:01 IntoTheEmo wrote: Title says: Jangbi retires To me, what it really means: more possible talent incoming to SOSPA!
Sorry to those that enjoyed his SC2 games, but I'm sure it's fairly exciting news to some of us. I hear Jaehoon is out as well? Prospect of two of my favourite Protosses possibly playing BW again: sweet!
On August 30 2013 09:20 EleanorRIgby wrote: im honestly surprised more old broodwar players haven't retired
I think that's because very few young kids will play sc2 in Korea right now. Not many new blood, and competition level is low, so those older gamers can still hang around.
There's plenty of new blood in SC2 atm. Hell, one just broke out in the past few weeks (Sora). In fact, I would say that there are too many players and teams in the scene right now, so we should keep an eye out for more going down. There are how many teams in KR atm? 15 (incl. Axiom and EG-TL)? Too many for the scene to sustain. If STX and WJS and maybe Prime go down, then we'll be looking at a much more sustainable 12.
Yes, there are many new people in SC2. Of course. But no one can match the popularity and influences of the old BW big names.
On August 30 2013 00:42 _Animus_ wrote: When i saw this thread in the sidebar i was like slaped right in the face. Jangbi who become my very first favorite player in the Jin Air OSL, the man who made the best OSL final ive ever seen. There is no such feeling delivered by any BW player or game to me before the rise of his legend.
Sadly this was only for a short time, cuz sc2 ruined it, now its even more sad cuz he is retiring. What a career he couldve had if this shitty sc2 wasnt killed BW.
Bows to you almighty hero, the greatest of them all!
I have hope that he will join Sospa scene, cuz in an interview after the last BW OSL he said that BW is sacred thing for him. A game that has inspired him to achieve what he is known for, to be the champion. He said also that he will play BW even if there is no one still playing it. Much love for you JangBang, hope to see you soon in BW!
Oh god it is not SC2 what ruined it is the shift of popularity to LoL and even WoT and lack of SC2 leagues in korea stop being stupid BW fans I like BW and SC2 and I will never say bad things about these games.
just admit that exeprienced bw players do not really enjoy sc2. goddamn it its not FUN goddamn it
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Jangbi, it was an honor to watch your 2011 OSL performance in person. You're the only progamer I've ever hugged on stage after winning one, so there's that, too! I'm proud of you.
I hope you play some Brood War every now and then and have the best time.
Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 15:55 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 08:06 Brutaxilos wrote: Some of the responses in this thread really piss me off. Stop whining about Protoss design or SC2 sucking or anything. This is about Jangbi and his retirement.
BW for JangBi was a dream, a dream he had to end, prematurely.
Some people say, how could he make such decision, while being in Code-S, and performing well in Proleague. Have you ever been in a situation where you were thrown into environment you would never choose on your own? How fun is to work, in a place you don't like to work for years, but you HAVE TO (to make a living).
On one day you think it will be ok, if i do this and this i can still feel satisfaction, but you wake up on another day and you say to yourself "who am I kidding, i don't want to do this", but then you realize "I have to make a living". This inside turmoil happens, it maybe happened in JangBi's head, and i dread to think about possibility of several others BW players who would be enduring it today, while their play is scrutinized by the public in a way of "wow this guy really is not that good as he used to be in BW".
How can you be a champion, when your second thought is always "I hate it".
Now what it has to do with with "SC2 suck"? Well some people say it was "Kespa powerplay, Blizzard powerplay or SC2 sucks". All of this can be seen in a different perspective but you could make connections if you wanted. While there are people who take advantage of situation to simply post SC2 suck post, that does not mean there is nothing wrong.
SC2 itself is a game, SC2 as a premiere esport is the embodiment of a new workplace, some people would never choose. Every new workplace may create dreams (2010 release switch of B-teamers) and may create nightmares.
Years ago people believed that BW->SC2 transition will be effortless("First is starcraft, second is starcraft what difference you speak of?"), but i think we are way past that, the difference between first and second should be big enough to prevent what happened, but the people who hold money didn't care about future careers and dreams of "handful" of people. That did not make a difference to them.
On August 30 2013 15:55 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The only zerg I could see retiring are hydra, effort, and zero. I would really love to see zero BW again.
Maybe it's because my english is not really good but is it sure it's a Khan zerg ? I wouldn't want KT zergs to retire Even if they are not at the top it would make me sad
I kind of just wish all the old BW pros would retire and then Sospa can become something huge that hopefully takes off and brings BW back into the limelight. Mostly I just want to see Soulkey back in Brood War. He made me fall in love with the game. Jangbi (and to a lesser extend, Best) were the Protoss versions of Soulkey to me. Their play was just so unique and inspiring that I couldn't tear my eyes away.
On August 30 2013 08:06 Brutaxilos wrote: Some of the responses in this thread really piss me off. Stop whining about Protoss design or SC2 sucking or anything. This is about Jangbi and his retirement.
BW for JangBi was a dream, a dream he had to end, prematurely.
Some people say, how could he make such decision, while being in Code-S, and performing well in Proleague. Have you ever been in a situation where you were thrown into environment you would never choose on your own? How fun is to work, in a place you don't like to work for years, but you HAVE TO (to make a living).
I find it a bit odd how some people choose to interpret the situation like JangBi and others have been unwillingly forced into something. They always had the option to just straight out refuse even trying to transition and some indeed did do that.
Kespa simply did not want to run a BW league anymore. Maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to do, maybe it was, but if anything these players got an *opportunity* to transition to a different game they had no previous experience in (even though experience in BW was likely to help) when this happened. It's a *nicer* thing to do than just ending BW and starting, say, a LoL league with completely different players.
On August 30 2013 17:51 nighcol wrote: I find it a bit odd how some people choose to interpret the situation like JangBi and others have been unwillingly forced into something. They always had the option to just straight out refuse even trying to transition and some indeed did do that.
Kespa simply did not want to run a BW league anymore. Maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to do, maybe it was, but if anything these players got an *opportunity* to transition to a different game they had no previous experience in (even though experience in BW was likely to help) when this happened. It's a *nicer* thing to do than just ending BW and starting, say, a LoL league with completely different players.
I find it a bit odd how some people choose to interpret the situation like Blizzard didn't pressure Kespa at all to transition to SC2 and that they "simply did not want to run a BW league anymore".
On August 30 2013 17:14 Witten wrote: I kind of just wish all the old BW pros would retire and then Sospa can become something huge that hopefully takes off and brings BW back into the limelight. Mostly I just want to see Soulkey back in Brood War. He made me fall in love with the game. Jangbi (and to a lesser extend, Best) were the Protoss versions of Soulkey to me. Their play was just so unique and inspiring that I couldn't tear my eyes away.
This is hopefully a blessing in disguise.
Even if every BW player quit and return to BW, can BW be rebooted to how it once was? I sadly cant see that happening because BW player were forced to switch for a reason. Our best choice is to nourish and drive SC2 in the right direction by moving forward. A direction where everyone, both BW and sc2 player, will both be satisfied. But honestly....this feels even more improbable then rebooting BW. I honestly think that most veteran BW player will retired simply because of their desire to play BW. Those that switch and continue to have great/moderate successful will probably hang on longer and a few such as Rain will probably stay since they are doing so well.
On August 30 2013 08:06 Brutaxilos wrote: Some of the responses in this thread really piss me off. Stop whining about Protoss design or SC2 sucking or anything. This is about Jangbi and his retirement.
BW for JangBi was a dream, a dream he had to end, prematurely.
Some people say, how could he make such decision, while being in Code-S, and performing well in Proleague. Have you ever been in a situation where you were thrown into environment you would never choose on your own? How fun is to work, in a place you don't like to work for years, but you HAVE TO (to make a living).
I find it a bit odd how some people choose to interpret the situation like JangBi and others have been unwillingly forced into something. They always had the option to just straight out refuse even trying to transition and some indeed did do that.
Kespa simply did not want to run a BW league anymore. Maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to do, maybe it was, but if anything these players got an *opportunity* to transition to a different game they had no previous experience in (even though experience in BW was likely to help) when this happened. It's a *nicer* thing to do than just ending BW and starting, say, a LoL league with completely different players.
Hey i don't hold recorded conversations between CEO's or any evidence, but saying there was no business for each side in BW->SC2 switch is laughable, given the history of dispute between Kespa and Blizzard, OGN and GOMtv.
They all fought for something for few years right? You can clearly see what monster could be created from post-BW Korean soil (LoL).
In business you don't simply do something on a whim.
And JangBi and others simply refusing to transition would make them be unemployed. That's why my analogy to workplace. Just please spare me, going into details why money is neccesary to living.
On August 30 2013 17:14 Witten wrote: I kind of just wish all the old BW pros would retire and then Sospa can become something huge that hopefully takes off and brings BW back into the limelight. Mostly I just want to see Soulkey back in Brood War. He made me fall in love with the game. Jangbi (and to a lesser extend, Best) were the Protoss versions of Soulkey to me. Their play was just so unique and inspiring that I couldn't tear my eyes away.
This is hopefully a blessing in disguise.
I wish that too, but i doubt it will happen. They cant make a living with the money they get from Sospa.
On August 30 2013 15:55 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
On August 30 2013 15:55 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
I don't understand what you mean by Blizzard doesn't care about eSports.
Every game Blizzard has made in the last 10 years has had a business model that combats the fear of pirating cutting into their profits.
SC2 - esports (they make a lot of money from broadcasting deals) DIII - the auction house... They take rake on all items sales. WoW - subscription Hearthstone - booster pack sales
I didn't respond to you in the other thread when you made an ignorant comment, but this is essentially the same reply it needed.
One could say Blizzard doesn't care about eSports as in they don't care about preserving them or making them immortal, but while Blizzard has an expansion left to sell, they're not gonna be happy if the two biggest teams ever to grace the game say 'this isn't worth our time.' They'll be worried about other KeSPA teams following suit.
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
I don't understand what you mean by Blizzard doesn't care about eSports.
Every game Blizzard has made in the last 10 years has had a business model that combats the fear of pirating cutting into their profits.
SC2 - esports (they make a lot of money from broadcasting deals) DIII - the auction house... They take rake on all items sales. WoW - subscription Hearthstone - booster pack sales
I didn't respond to you in the other thread when you made an ignorant comment, but this is essentially the same reply it needed.
One could say Blizzard doesn't care about eSports as in they don't care about preserving them or making them immortal, but while Blizzard has an expansion left to sell, they're not gonna be happy if the two biggest teams ever to grace the game say 'this isn't worth our time.' They'll be worried about other KeSPA teams following suit.
True. I don't get why the hate on blizzard... If they didn't care about eSports they would not have done wcs. Hell, the might have overpriced licence so no one can buy them. They care. See the Sonic Case. But they have a company to run. They are doing well, their games sell.
I'm a Brood War fanboy and Blizzard didn't care to broadcast bw... I watched crappy vids woking up in the night to watch my favorite game. Now, if i want to watch an SC2 match. I just go to blizzard website. It is there.
Sure Chef is right. But that does not make them NOT care
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
Blizzard do care about eSports, they're just a sad combination of caring too much about profit, not being able to swallow their pride and admit they made mistakes and a bit of incompetence.
If you want to see a company that truly doesn't give two fucks, look at id Software. They only have tournaments at QuakeCon because it would be weird not to considering the event's legacy and history, but other than that they do an absolutely piss poor job of actually running them. :/
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
I don't understand what you mean by Blizzard doesn't care about eSports.
Every game Blizzard has made in the last 10 years has had a business model that combats the fear of pirating cutting into their profits.
SC2 - esports (they make a lot of money from broadcasting deals) DIII - the auction house... They take rake on all items sales. WoW - subscription Hearthstone - booster pack sales
I didn't respond to you in the other thread when you made an ignorant comment, but this is essentially the same reply it needed.
One could say Blizzard doesn't care about eSports as in they don't care about preserving them or making them immortal, but while Blizzard has an expansion left to sell, they're not gonna be happy if the two biggest teams ever to grace the game say 'this isn't worth our time.' They'll be worried about other KeSPA teams following suit.
True. I don't get why the hate on blizzard... If they didn't care about eSports they would not have done wcs. Hell, the might have overpriced licence so no one can buy them. They care. See the Sonic Case. But they have a company to run. They are doing well, their games sell.
I'm a Brood War fanboy and Blizzard didn't care to broadcast bw... I watched crappy vids woking up in the night to watch my favorite game. Now, if i want to watch an SC2 match. I just go to blizzard website. It is there.
Sure Chef is right. But that does not make them NOT care
People just want to hate, it is a lot easier to say "Blizzard doesn't care about black people eSports" then to accept that reality is complex and nuanced.
Said complex and nuanced reality being that aside from a handful of personalities and fans, nobody cares about "eSports", everyone is first and foremost looking out for number one. KeSPA, OGN, MBC, GOMtv, Blizzard, Valve, Riot, etc. etc. They are all looking first at their own bottomline, as a company and as a person, and second at how eSports can help it.
And in addition to that, none of them are anywhere close to perfect, just at various levels of incompetence. And said incompetence isn't equally distributed either, people are always competent at some things and incompetent at others and companies are no different. You could make a laundry lists of faults and virtues for all the people and entities involved in eSports.
I rarely visit the Broodwar forums nowadays. I find it sad how people are apparently still having the same arguments which were obviously stupid and delusional two years ago, to the point where a retirement thread can't even be about honouring the player anymore.
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
It has more to do with their execution more than anything else and guess what? I see a lot of fail when it comes to implementation with many games. We're not just talking about competitive gaming. We're talking about the actual product companies put out there. I've played a lot of good online games conceptually, but like I said before. Their implementation on all ends of the spectrum is pretty poor to train wrecks. It's sad. These guys have plenty of experience with developing games but at the end of the day it's all about their implementation. That's what people will remember you by and that's why a lot of games don't last very long (R.I.P. DFO).
As for competitive gaming on the other hand? Sorry, but a lot of them don't know jack. To them it's foreign territory and lookie who Blizzard had in place to head-up the WCS to begin with. The players and community members had many, many chances to communicate with Blizzard with all the summits prior to the release of the game. What you do with that information and decode it is one thing (sorry Sen's English isn't the greatest, but they completely missed his points and we ended up playing broken telephone-- you didn't really get a chance to hear what he really had to say). Anyway, a lot of these guys who have been playing your games for 10+ years, attending the LANs and witnessing everything firsthand. They know their shit and I'd use their experience to your advantage. Not like Blizzard didn't hire guys who were pretty involved in the BW scene in the heyday. They had guys like Pillars (no longer works for Blizz) and Xileas (RTS guy who ended up working on WoW and go figure now he's with Riot), etc. Well, at least Blizzard now has David Ting and Co. but it would be nice if they got more people who are actually involved in the scene involved. You might just learn a thing or two about running a League.
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
I don't understand what you mean by Blizzard doesn't care about eSports.
Every game Blizzard has made in the last 10 years has had a business model that combats the fear of pirating cutting into their profits.
SC2 - esports (they make a lot of money from broadcasting deals) DIII - the auction house... They take rake on all items sales. WoW - subscription Hearthstone - booster pack sales
I didn't respond to you in the other thread when you made an ignorant comment, but this is essentially the same reply it needed.
One could say Blizzard doesn't care about eSports as in they don't care about preserving them or making them immortal, but while Blizzard has an expansion left to sell, they're not gonna be happy if the two biggest teams ever to grace the game say 'this isn't worth our time.' They'll be worried about other KeSPA teams following suit.
True. I don't get why the hate on blizzard... If they didn't care about eSports they would not have done wcs. Hell, the might have overpriced licence so no one can buy them. They care. See the Sonic Case. But they have a company to run. They are doing well, their games sell.
I'm a Brood War fanboy and Blizzard didn't care to broadcast bw... I watched crappy vids woking up in the night to watch my favorite game. Now, if i want to watch an SC2 match. I just go to blizzard website. It is there.
Sure Chef is right. But that does not make them NOT care
People just want to hate, it is a lot easier to say "Blizzard doesn't care about black people eSports" then to accept that reality is complex and nuanced.
Said complex and nuanced reality being that aside from a handful of personalities and fans, nobody cares about "eSports", everyone is first and foremost looking out for number one. KeSPA, OGN, MBC, GOMtv, Blizzard, Valve, Riot, etc. etc. They are all looking first at their own bottomline, as a company and as a person, and second at how eSports can help it.
And in addition to that, none of them are anywhere close to perfect, just at various levels of incompetence. And said incompetence isn't equally distributed either, people are always competent at some things and incompetent at others and companies are no different. You could make a laundry lists of faults and virtues for all the people and entities involved in eSports.
I rarely visit the Broodwar forums nowadays. I find it sad how people are apparently still having the same arguments which were obviously stupid and delusional two years ago, to the point where a retirement thread can't even be about honouring the player anymore.
In that circumstance which we currently reside at, one must observer the situation and make decision to believe which one of the "devils" that is the least foreboding and ominous to follow by examining the method they go to attain their goals.
In term of constructing the esport scene, the company, organization, association or w/e name you want to want to call them, the one that contributed the most and instilled the most blood and sweats are indeed MBCGame + OGN. They raised StarCraft out of thin air with their production. And ultimately all of their efforts are laid out wasted into the abyss with Blizzard's lawsuit claims and a coercion for game switching.
So the outlook is rather conspicuous on which one the general public would look for as the hero or the villain here. The point is that Blizzard in their deepest interior can't be bothered with electronic sports. At face value, they promotes the "scene" as a white knight in camouflaging their ulterior motives of monetary gains as they would have demonstrated much more deference toward the groups that produced a sustainable system for progaming.
Blizzard do care about eSports, they're just a sad combination of caring too much about profit, not being able to swallow their pride and admit they made mistakes and a bit of incompetence.
approved
On a more relevant note, I never played BW or knew his name from it, but Jangbi had become my favorite protoss to watch after only a few amazing games. I'm pretty sure there was a Jangbi vs Flash game on whirlwind that was masterful. I named pokemon after him. Thanks for the ggs
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
Is there still a bw scene? Where can I follow it?
You can start by turning on BW news on your front page
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
On August 30 2013 11:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The greatest BW warrior, from silver to gold, from King Kong to 2-time champ, no one electrified crowds like he did in the twilight of professional Brood War. I salute you, Almighty. You took the darkest of days and lit them blindingly bright with your radiant energy.
Yes! 10/10
Jangbang always #1 in my heart. Glad he left SC2, hopefully he comes back to BW.
Is there still a bw scene? Where can I follow it?
It's been since before OSL finished lol. Sonic's league. RO8 Day 1 was just today between Killer/Ssak and Sea/Hiya. Check the upcoming events on the side bar. RO8 Day 2 coming up in 19h 10min from now. Snipealot3's twitch has all the vods for the games as well. One of the streams, snipealot2 is from FPV of one of the players. Snipealot3 has Sonic casting, good games today
I used to follow it big time, but I understood that KesPA and all of the best pro have migrated so I kinda quit following. I followed it hardcore from about 2004-2010.
On August 31 2013 02:10 Zorkmid wrote: I used to follow it big time, but I understood that KesPA and all of the best pro have migrated so I kinda quit following. I followed it hardcore from about 2004-2010.
so you missed the last 2 years of BW then lol. Sonic's SRT/SSL etc... has been going on for >2 years I believe.
On August 30 2013 21:14 Xiphos wrote: Apparently on that thread, people have been also speculating about SKT and KT (or the twin telecom heroes) showing concern about the future of SC2 and might pull out.
I'm really curious how Blizz would react to that. They don't really care about eSports, so I guess they'd probably just shrug, but I'd like to thing it'd make them give protoss the complete redesign everyone demands for LotV.
Even if they did (fat chance), it's too late. Hell, even if LotV was just BW HD, the brand is probably already spoiled.
I don't understand what you mean by Blizzard doesn't care about eSports.
Yep, especially because they hosted the GOM Classic Seasons to get a foothold in Korea for when SC2 gets released.
Argh, not Jangbi... every other protoss player but not Jangbi,.. for me he was the protoss player in HotS with the most expectations. His style was unique, really loved to see his games especially his micro, the only one ultra- aggressive toss out there. GL HF
You've really misunderstood me if you don't think I really hate the company Blizzard is right now lol... They care about eSports in the most selfish way possible. I'm not one of those people who thinks just because something is a business or corporation they have to be selfish.
Criticizing ID Software in favour of Blizzard is kinda insane. John Carmack is very altruistic and will do things that are just cool even if they don't necessarily increase profits (kinda like Blizzard used to do sometimes).
This really does start to go off topic though. To complain that ID software doesn't support eSports doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Blizzard didn't support BW, it just made itself, and that's exactly the way it should be.
It's my belief that except by indirect means like selling more copies of their games, it is bad for game developers to get rich off eSports. It creates all kinds of conflicts of interest (in that their goal is to sell stuff and make money, not necessarily to make eSports stable and legitimate, and ultimately those things end up being incompatible). For an eSport to truly ascend to the level of real sports it would really need to be freeware. Brood War was the closest we ever got before Blizzard started caring about [making money off] eSports lol.
So yeah, don't misunderstand me hahahaha. I can't forgive them for the lawsuits they filed against the people who made eSports a reality at all rather than just bunch of random unrefined stupid tournaments no one but the #1 player could ever live off (if at all). They are grade A jerks, even if the law is on their side (more because no law has been made yet to protect significant cultures that arise out of such means).
I don't know if Jangbi cares about any of that, though. Maybe indirectly, in the way the atmosphere is way less genuine in an artificial eSports scene.
On August 31 2013 02:13 larse wrote: Stork says he won't retire.
With "he" he means himself and not JangBi right ? i am really sad that JangBi retired . He was the only protoss i cheered for and expected something from in SC2 . Well my only hope is for Free or Stork to do well , at this point i would even cheer for Bisu . Since there aren't many "old school" players left . It's so sad , back in the BW days i would rather be caught dead then cheer for a protoss player , now i just want to see the old greats still having some success .
BTW does anybody have any idea of what Much and Iris are doing post military ? I know that Iris was/is coach in Azubu , but i have no idea what Much is doing ? We should have a thread for stalking retired progamers :D .
On August 31 2013 03:53 Chef wrote: Criticizing ID Software in favour of Blizzard is kinda insane. John Carmack is very altruistic and will do things that are just cool even if they don't necessarily increase profits (kinda like Blizzard used to do sometimes).
I'm not talking about John Carmack, the guy's fucking brilliant. But John Carmack isn't id. This isn't the 90s and early 00s anymore.
id has forsaken its biggest brands in favor of just making engines and mediocre games that showcase those engines in attempts to make them sell better. That in itself is fine, things change, companies can't stay the same forever. But what really stings is that they keep running Quake tournaments at QuakeCon while giving them the least attention and putting in as little effort as possible, to the point where the events become an absolute joke, far worse than any premier tournament we've seen in SC2 and even worse than what WCG has become recently.
And that's just pathetic. Pretending to still give a shit about one of the two franchises that made you what you are now, even when everything you're doing points to the contrary. If they just left it alone I would've been happier, instead of shitting on the legacy of the best competitive FPS game of all time more and more with every year. That is inexcusable. And I guarantee to you that this opinion is unanimous among what's left of the Quake community.
As an outsider, it might seem odd to you, but trust me it's a pathetic sight to behold. It has nothing to do with Carmack. Things might have gone better if he were still at the helm, but at the same time the guy's passion has always been tech and programming so I can't fault him at all for choosing to focus on that.
On August 31 2013 03:53 Chef wrote: Criticizing ID Software in favour of Blizzard is kinda insane. John Carmack is very altruistic and will do things that are just cool even if they don't necessarily increase profits (kinda like Blizzard used to do sometimes).
I'm not talking about John Carmack, the guy's fucking brilliant. But John Carmack isn't id. This isn't the 90s and early 00s anymore.
id has forsaken its biggest brands in favor of just making engines and mediocre games that showcase those engines in attempts to make them sell better. That in itself is fine, things change, companies can't stay the same forever. But what really stings is that they keep running Quake tournaments at QuakeCon while giving them the least attention and putting in as little effort as possible, to the point where the events become an absolute joke, far worse than any premier tournament we've seen in SC2 and even worse than what WCG has become recently.
And that's just pathetic. Pretending to still give a shit about one of the two franchises that made you what you are now, even when everything you're doing points to the contrary. If they just left it alone I would've been happier, instead of shitting on the legacy of the best competitive FPS game of all time more and more with every year. That is inexcusable. And I guarantee to you that this opinion is unanimous among what's left of the Quake community.
As an outsider, it might seem odd to you, but trust me it's a pathetic sight to behold. It has nothing to do with Carmack. Things might have gone better if he were still at the helm, but at the same time the guy's passion has always been tech and programming so I can't fault him at all for choosing to focus on that.
At least they aren't actively hurting the scene to push a new product down our throats...
On August 31 2013 03:53 Chef wrote: Criticizing ID Software in favour of Blizzard is kinda insane. John Carmack is very altruistic and will do things that are just cool even if they don't necessarily increase profits (kinda like Blizzard used to do sometimes).
I'm not talking about John Carmack, the guy's fucking brilliant. But John Carmack isn't id. This isn't the 90s and early 00s anymore.
id has forsaken its biggest brands in favor of just making engines and mediocre games that showcase those engines in attempts to make them sell better. That in itself is fine, things change, companies can't stay the same forever. But what really stings is that they keep running Quake tournaments at QuakeCon while giving them the least attention and putting in as little effort as possible, to the point where the events become an absolute joke, far worse than any premier tournament we've seen in SC2 and even worse than what WCG has become recently.
And that's just pathetic. Pretending to still give a shit about one of the two franchises that made you what you are now, even when everything you're doing points to the contrary. If they just left it alone I would've been happier, instead of shitting on the legacy of the best competitive FPS game of all time more and more with every year. That is inexcusable. And I guarantee to you that this opinion is unanimous among what's left of the Quake community.
As an outsider, it might seem odd to you, but trust me it's a pathetic sight to behold. It has nothing to do with Carmack. Things might have gone better if he were still at the helm, but at the same time the guy's passion has always been tech and programming so I can't fault him at all for choosing to focus on that.
At least they aren't actively hurting the scene to push a new product down our throats...
I'm pretty sure if it was big enough they would, but eh...
Anyway, the point is that Blizzard cares about eSports a shit ton more than id, even if their eSport of choice is SC2.
And even then, looking at the big picture, killing a game in favor of another is still better than humiliating and neglecting another every year for no reason and no gain whatsoever.
You're right that I don't know anything about the Quake scene, but unless id is telling them they're not allowed to run their own tournaments or build their own scene or is telling them they have to pay huge fees to run them, or that the existing scene had to get out of town because the new quake is in town... It is the scene's own fault that they aren't bigger. In Brood War's glory days no one ever thought Blizzcon's invitational with a few pros and top foreigners was shitting on e-sports. It was never meant to be anything more than fanservice and an aside to the rest of their convention. I don't know anything about Quakecon, but I'm getting the vibe it is just a nod, not literally supposed to be the professional scene. It's convention after all.
On August 31 2013 04:37 Chef wrote: You're right that I don't know anything about the Quake scene, but unless id is telling them they're not allowed to run their own tournaments or build their own scene or is telling them they have to pay huge fees to run them, or that the existing scene had to get out of town because the new quake is in town...
You don't get it... people said that Blizzard doesn't care for eSports... that's simply not true. They don't care about Brood War, that's a fucking shame, I agree, but they do care about StarCraft 2, no matter how incompetent their decisions may seem at times.
On August 31 2013 04:37 Chef wrote: It is the scene's own fault that they aren't bigger.
Not really, every skill-intensive game that's hard to get into and infinitely harder to master has suffered as gaming became more casual and more geared towards catering to a wider audience instead of actually providing interesting gameplay and deep mechanics. And even then I'd say Quake and Brood War are probably among the games least affected by that trend shift.
On August 31 2013 04:37 Chef wrote: In Brood War's glory days no one ever thought Blizzcon's invitational with a few pros and top foreigners was shitting on e-sports. It was never meant to be anything more than fanservice and an aside to the rest of their convention. I don't know anything about Quakecon, but I'm getting the vibe it is just a nod, not literally supposed to be the professional scene. It's convention after all.
Let me paint a picture for all the BW fans that think they have it so bad. This is gonna be a bit longer but I trust you have the patience to read it, if you really want a wider perspective on things.
The Quake series was id's magnum opus, their crown jewel. It revolutionized first-person shooter both single-player and especially multi-player, it paved the way for competitive gaming and eSports in the Western world and even the id Tech engines it used were considered so great that other engines for some of the most popular games would be based on them (Valve's GoldSrc and Source and even the Call of Duty engine, among so many others).
QuakeCon provided the biggest tournament in the West for a while, and even when it wasn't anymore, it still continued to be very reputable, well-organized and well-run. Of course the convention entailed much more than that, but there was still ample respect given to the competitors and their game, and things were looking great.
But then id started gradually shifting their focus away from that, even though it was enjoying great success.
Imagine you have a purebred, prize-winning dog, the kind that you teach tricks and take to shows were it leaves everyone in awe and garners nothing but admiration. But gradually you lose interest in your dog, and focus on other things. The dog still wants to be a champion, still wants to do tricks, still wants to go to shows and make people happy. But you don't take him there anymore. Eventually you start forgetting to take care of him, to wash him, to take him on walks and even to feed him. You don't care about dogs at all anymore. But you still keep him, because people remember that you once had an award-winning dog. He manages to survive one way or another, although he's now sick and fatigued and nothing but an empty, lifeless shell. You don't set it free nor do you put it to sleep. And every once in a while its heart starts pumping more vigorously as it remembers what once was and what could be, and it gets up and starts jumping excitedly. But you kick that damn mutt right in its fucking ribcage until it runs away back into the dark and decrepit basement.
That's Quake. You have one of the most revolutionary FPS game series with an almost unparalleled depth and theoretical skill ceiling, both in its genre and gaming overall, now reduced to a measly community that, to boot, is split across 5 different games. All of which excellent, with subtle differences that may not seem relevant in theory but are completely game changing at the higher levels of skill. Still, that's 5 different games all of which hard to get into and infinitely harder to master.
And QuakeCon, the tournament that reinforced the legacy of Quake, the legacy of id Software and the legacy of competitive gaming in the West, it used to be its StarLeague, its International, its LCS, its WCS. It wasn't just a convention with a fan-service tournament tacked onto it, it was considered the biggest and most prestigious tournament in Quake, that the top European players would attend to face off against the American ones. And now QuakeCon is a farce. It's a convention that for some reason continues to hold a Quake tournament, even though they are not putting the least bit of effort or interest into running; to the point where it's only announced like 2 weeks before fact; to the point where there's massive delays and down-time; to the point where it feels like an unwanted, tacked-on freak sideshow that's merely "tolerated" instead of supported or organized by the id staff; to the point where meaningless filler like raffles and various other random things are given much more attention than the pro players who bust their ass off every day to train and hone their skills, not for the money (which has shrunk considerably over the years) but because they love it. And this is how they're repaid, by the people whose legacy they've helped build essentially pissing all over them and their passion.
It's a disgrace, it truly is...
At least Blizzard still has ONE game they still care about, and as long as they don't run it into the ground with the same nonchalance as id did to Quake, they'll still be better.
Saying Blizzard during care about eSports now was actually inaccurate of me, and I apologize for starting some weird SC2 vs Quake (???) flame war thing, which wasn't my intention. I'm actually trying to be positive!
I do maintain that Blizz didn't care much about eSports beyond lip service during most of WoL, as evidenced by the balancing around gold league, ignoring the eSport's scenes concerns re: maps etc etc etc. They're clearly made a bit of a come around since late WoL and into HotS.
But when I said they don't (currently) care about eSports, I mean in the sense that they don't seem to be competing very hard to be the One True eSport vs LoL, as they see eSports as community building and advertising for LotV and whenever they decide to make SC3. I think Blizz's big greedy plan for SC2 originally was the map marketplace (remember that, when they were going to let people sell customs and take a cut?), but that obviously fell apart. So, provided everyone in BW played nice and gave Blizz a fee, there's not much financial difference between pro BW and pro SC2 (remember, KeSPA wasn't paying Blizz, but Sonic is). So I don't think they'd be inclined to kill a cash inflow out of spite.
Quake has always been a hard game to spectate. How is that id's fault, exactly? They made a game that was fun to play. If people in the Quake scene are passionate enough, they can make their own tournament and see how well it goes. It's not up to a game company to keep an old game popular... either it is or it ain't...
People don't wanna see your dog anymore. There's no comparison here. The responsibility is on the fans to create the tournament they want. If there's no fans who wanna do that then this is what you get. Where is the injustice? You reap what you sow. In Brood War's case, Blizzard took all the fruits of the Korean scene's labours and the salted the lands so that nothing but their new salty game could grow.
Your complaint about how the tournament was run sloppily is valid, and I'm sure that's disappointing for people who still love Quake and feel that's the only thing a year they have to look forward to... but shit at least no one is telling them not to try and do better. Top foreigners complained constantly about how WCG was run, and it was the biggest tournament for them, and eventually WCG cut out Brood War completely when they thought the foreign scene was competitive enough anymore... but I never really shat on WCG because of that. People always had the option of doing something better, and sometimes that happened (TSL could be an example). It's way better for a game to peter out because the fans left / lost the motivation to keep it alive, than because the developer wants to make a statement about the IP rights it's about to start throwing its weight around with (after over 10 years of a laissez-faire policy), messing with tonnes of people's jobs.
I read your whole post and I really don't agree. You can blame id for having a badly run tournament, but you can't blame them for Quake not being an eSport...
On August 31 2013 05:30 Chef wrote: Quake has always been a hard game to spectate.
It's the only FPS I've been able to follow at all, since it was 1v1. FPSes generally, especially team-based, are a mess to spectate.
In Brood War's case, Blizzard took all the fruits of the Korean scene's labours and the salted the lands so that nothing but their new salty game could grow.
On August 31 2013 05:30 Chef wrote: Quake has always been a hard game to spectate.
No?
On August 31 2013 05:30 Chef wrote: People don't wanna see your dog anymore. There's no comparison here. The responsibility is on the fans to create the tournament they want.
No? The community still handles Quake far better than id, just like the BW community handles BW far better than Blizzard did.
On August 31 2013 05:30 Chef wrote: In Brood War's case, Blizzard took all the fruits of the Korean scene's labours and the salted the lands so that nothing but their new salty game could grow.
I thought there's still an amateur league going on with plenty of former Kespa pros?
On August 31 2013 05:30 Chef wrote: I read your whole post and I really don't agree. You can blame id for having a badly run tournament, but you can't blame them for Quake not being an eSport...
It has been an eSport for the longest time. And then suddenly id decided they don't give a shit about it anymore. Which coupled with the massive popularity of games like CoD 4 and onward, lead to a massive decline. Just like Blizzard's legal battles with Kespa and the advent of LoL lead to a massive decline in BW.
The difference is that Blizzard tried to kill Brood War to make way for StarCraft 2. id killed Quake to make way for... absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. No new game, no new service, nothing.
I feel like you took my post and strawman'd it to oblivion. I'm not trying to argue about which eSport should have been more successful or that it's exclusively id's fault that Quake isn't as big as it was in its prime. All I'm saying is that you can't accuse Blizzard of not caring about eSports when they're still actively supporting at least one competitive scene. Even if it's not the one we like, even if it's not the better one. Compared to id who are supporting none at all and have proven time and time again that they do not give a single flying fuck anymore.
We're all salty. But you're jumping to the wrong conclusions and fail to look at things from a wider perspective.
Did you see my post where I said Blizzard does care about eSports? Because if that's all you're saying, then you're barking up the wrong tree. It was way better when Blizzard was indifferent to eSports.
You're saying id killed Quake, but all they did was stop making stuff for it. That's about as indirect as it gets. Blizzard played an active role.
I thought there's still an amateur league going on with plenty of former Kespa pros?
That's not eSports, that's not a stable scene with players who have salaries to live off. That's a bunch of people playing tournaments for a game with a prize pool, like almost all competitive games have. There is no structure or support and there's nothing Sonic can do about that unless Samsung and KT and SKT all suddenly decide they want to sponsor BW teams again, which isn't happening anytime soon.
You're arguing about something that was never a professional institution. Again, it's not the same at all, you're the one trying to compare two things that have nothing in common.
I don't know how you can defend that Quake is a good spectator's game. If it were we wouldn't be talking about this cause it'd be really popular. A random person can watch 20 minutes and feel like they've gotten all they can get out of it. The variety in it is too subtle for a casual player, even those who played a bit of Quake back in the day. You can't simultaneously say the game is dying because there's too many casual players not smart enough for it and that it's an easy game to get into and watch at the same time. If it's all relative, then Quake having good spectator value means BW had god-like spectator value ;p I think even BW was just 'pretty good.' BW could make people who only played casually watch it and want to play more or at least see more. Quake I think you already had to be a decent player to get anything out of it. Did you ever meet anyone who watched hours and hours of Quake but was the equivalent of D- in BW?
Jangbi left us with some great memories. The two OSLs he won will forever be remembered by BW fans. It's not unexpected that he retires at this point. He ended his BW career on the highest note possible. He has no regrets.
The greatest protoss in OSL history. My favourite protoss Jangbi! Best of luck in all your future endeavours. I hope to see you play BW sometime in the future...
Puppets technically Blizzard did take the BW professional scene hostage. Anyway there are a lot of other variables in play, but KeSPA was pretty much forced to make the transition at the end of the day.
On August 31 2013 06:25 Yorbon wrote: But for some part i think you're not really arguing against eachother, but against some frustration, coming up from misread posts.
Probably true. I don't wanna shit on people who like Quake, or say that it isn't fun to watch for people who like it, or that maybe in some other circumstances it could have been as popular as that Korean FPS that got TV time, but I don't think id software deserves to get shit on for not running high quality Quake tournies anymore... I can hardly think of any game devs nicer than id software.
On August 31 2013 06:25 Yorbon wrote: But for some part i think you're not really arguing against eachother, but against some frustration, coming up from misread posts.
Probably true. I don't wanna shit on people who like Quake, or say that it isn't fun to watch for people who like it, or that maybe in some other circumstances it could have been as popular as that Korean FPS that got TV time, but I don't think id software deserves to get shit on for not running high quality Quake tournies anymore... I can hardly think of any game devs nicer than id software.
aren't you being a bit bias there?
From reading both your posts, it seems that you both agree that Blizzard cares about esports but in his case, he believes it's a better thing than id since at least they are trying to promote SCII even if it has COI and its for money but you believe that it's better that Blizzard doesn't intervene for those same reasons. I have to agree with you on this one. Blizzard's involvement in SCII was much better prior to WCS induction. Much preferred having GSL on its own with other tourneys and keeping it that way(with maybe an extra tournament in AM with good prize money). I guess it's like BW. No blizzard involvement, have OSL/MSL and PL, just the right amount and keep interest in the players/scene
On August 31 2013 06:08 Chef wrote: I don't know how you can defend that Quake is a good spectator's game. If it were we wouldn't be talking about this cause it'd be really popular. A random person can watch 20 minutes and feel like they've gotten all they can get out of it. The variety in it is too subtle for a casual player, even those who played a bit of Quake back in the day. You can't simultaneously say the game is dying because there's too many casual players not smart enough for it and that it's an easy game to get into and watch at the same time. If it's all relative, then Quake having good spectator value means BW had god-like spectator value ;p I think even BW was just 'pretty good.' BW could make people who only played casually watch it and want to play more or at least see more. Quake I think you already had to be a decent player to get anything out of it. Did you ever meet anyone who watched hours and hours of Quake but was the equivalent of D- in BW?
Hi, I'm someone who watched hours and hours of Quake (Q3, QL, Q4) since 2004 but was not good at all in Quake. I also think it is an awesome game to spectate, I'd say it's easier for a beginner spectator to understand than appreciate than an RTS game. RTS games in turn are more spectacular to watch (cool battles between big armies) and easier to understand than MOBAs but it hasn't prevented LoL from stomping them completely. Whether a game is good spectator wise definitely does not guarantee anything about it's popularity, to suggest such a thing seems completely absurd as there are infinitely more factors that make a game popular.
On August 31 2013 06:08 Chef wrote: I don't know how you can defend that Quake is a good spectator's game. If it were we wouldn't be talking about this cause it'd be really popular. A random person can watch 20 minutes and feel like they've gotten all they can get out of it. The variety in it is too subtle for a casual player, even those who played a bit of Quake back in the day. You can't simultaneously say the game is dying because there's too many casual players not smart enough for it and that it's an easy game to get into and watch at the same time. If it's all relative, then Quake having good spectator value means BW had god-like spectator value ;p I think even BW was just 'pretty good.' BW could make people who only played casually watch it and want to play more or at least see more. Quake I think you already had to be a decent player to get anything out of it. Did you ever meet anyone who watched hours and hours of Quake but was the equivalent of D- in BW?
Hi, I'm someone who watched hours and hours of Quake (Q3, QL, Q4) since 2004 but was not good at all in Quake. I also think it is an awesome game to spectate, I'd say it's easier for a beginner spectator to understand than appreciate than an RTS game. RTS games in turn are more spectacular to watch (cool battles between big armies) and easier to understand than MOBAs but it hasn't prevented LoL from stomping them completely. Whether a game is good spectator wise definitely does not guarantee anything about it's popularity, to suggest such a thing seems completely absurd as there are infinitely more factors that make a game popular.
I agree with you in a point. It was easier to me to "get" SC2 than it is with LOL or DOTA. Maybe im just dumb :-P, maybe not.
Quake used to be featured in intel extreme master however they replace it with other games just because it doesn't have a lot of viewer however watching pro quake for the first time . I enjoyed the game a lot when the commentator actually explained what the players are trying to do and why they are delaying the attack and not rushing each other when quake is a game where who controls the items in the arena will win the game and top of with that you need really good reflexes and awareness of the whole map basically the item spawning .
Regardless I don't know what has Jangbi retiring has to do with quake though........
On August 31 2013 12:31 Sawamura wrote: Regardless I don't know what has Jangbi retiring has to do with quake though........
In short:
Ribbon: Blizzard doesn't care about esports.
Chef: Blizzard does, but only SC2.
Masterofpuppets: They do, if you want to see a company who doesn't give a shit about esports, Id.
Chef: Not really Id's fault for killing quake, it's not their job to keep quake alive it's the community's. At least they didn't actively sabotage the quake scene.
Masterofpuppets: At least blizzard killed BW to promote SC2, Id is shitting all over quake for no discernable reason.
Chef (and everyone else who liked BW): I think we liked it better when blizzard didn't give a shit (basically anytime before SC2 was about to come out), we didn't need them to build the BW esports scene, we just need them not to be assholes.
I think that pretty much sums it up. Basically screw Id, they don't give a shit about esports. Screw Blizzard, if only they didn't care about esports.
e-sports isn't dying. It just looks like Sc2 is starting to decline. If Jangbi is willing to quit Starcraft 2, who knows what other big star will follow next.
He's not having fun any more because he's not winning. Pretty sure if he switched over and was miraculous dominating everyone, he'd be having tons of fun. Kind of like how Innovation said he was tired of grinding BW because he wasn't getting anywhere, but when he started dominating in SC2 he started having fun again.
Jangbi's probably just too tired to grind back into champion shape again, even though he was making headway.
And i was telling my sc2 friends to keep an eye on jangbi, because hes not a bw player to look over on. This news is really sad, but i wish the best for him... Jangbi fighting!
Sonic just posted this: 허영무 선수 섭외 완료되었습니다 온게임넷 스타1의 마지막 우승자 허영무선수죠^^ 본격적인 스타1은 이제 시작입니다 김태형 해설님이 도움 주셧습니다 하...^^
Liaison with Jangbi is now formal (complete) The last OSL winner Jangbi ^^ Now, it's serious Star1 start Kim Carrier helped ha... ^^
Translation might not be ideal, I've no idea what kind of liaison they're talking about. Is it casting? Or will he be playing? Either way, everyone in the comments seems to be excited so it's bound to be something good.. wooheee??!
It says he is coming to sospa, in what capacity is still unclear - but I assume he will play.
좋은 소식 빨리 올려드리겠습니다. 허영무 선수- 스타1 마지막 우승자 아니겠습니까? 김태형 해설님께서 섭외 도와 주셨습니다^^ 아프리카 스타판은 더더더욱 커질겁니다!
I have some good news to give you. Jangbi - Isn't he the final winner of SCBW? Kim Carrier helped out liasing with Jangbi The SCBW side of Afreeca just got a lot bigger
On August 31 2013 18:06 snipealot wrote: It says he is coming to sospa, in what capacity is still unclear - but I assume he will play.
좋은 소식 빨리 올려드리겠습니다. 허영무 선수- 스타1 마지막 우승자 아니겠습니까? 김태형 해설님께서 섭외 도와 주셨습니다^^ 아프리카 스타판은 더더더욱 커질겁니다!
I have some good news to give you. Jangbi - Isn't he the final winner of SCBW? Kim Carrier helped out liasing with Jangbi The SCBW side of Afreeca just got a lot bigger
On August 31 2013 18:06 snipealot wrote: It says he is coming to sospa, in what capacity is still unclear - but I assume he will play.
좋은 소식 빨리 올려드리겠습니다. 허영무 선수- 스타1 마지막 우승자 아니겠습니까? 김태형 해설님께서 섭외 도와 주셨습니다^^ 아프리카 스타판은 더더더욱 커질겁니다!
I have some good news to give you. Jangbi - Isn't he the final winner of SCBW? Kim Carrier helped out liasing with Jangbi The SCBW side of Afreeca just got a lot bigger
awesome! Hopefully he's able to get to his peak level otherwise I would hate to see him go out in the earlier rounds due to lack of practice and having gotten used to SCII's mechanics
On August 31 2013 18:18 Stratos wrote: I kneeeew it. Kim carry too strong/ Welcome back Jangbi!
rumours
Haha so happy. Whatever the rumors were saying, why would he take a whole year off before military service if it wasn't for BW... yay !
this. Seemed weird to take a whole year and then do nothing? lol. You can't get an education in a year, at least 2-3 years etc... BW seemed like the logical reason
Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
you don't like killer?
The only zerg I didn't like was Hyuk
oh, may I ask why? lol. He seems like a likeable fellow
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
you don't like killer?
The only zerg I didn't like was Hyuk
oh, may I ask why? lol. He seems like a likeable fellow
I don't know really, he just annoyed me, and he would do things that would make my brain die when he played... Now players like Shine on the other hand would make me rub my hands in glee every-time they played just because of the sheer amount of protoss buthurt and tears that would follow... aahhh, good times
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
you don't like killer?
The only zerg I didn't like was Hyuk
oh, may I ask why? lol. He seems like a likeable fellow
I don't know really, he just annoyed me, and he would do things that would make my brain die when he played... Now players like Shine on the other hand would make me rub my hands in glee every-time they played just because of the sheer amount of protoss buthurt and tears that would follow... aahhh, good times
On September 01 2013 02:55 Zeo wrote: Great news, he can play BW leagues (obviously not ultra competitively, but more for fun) and have time for everything else he wants to do. Wonder how long it will take him to get back on form.
Honestly I would bet that JangBi is the most "in-form" player to make the switch.
Next up is BiSu(i hope) then KeSPA and blizz can go s*ck a d*ck.
Imagine some of the other rumors are true. Effort vs. Bisu BW starleague final *drools*
sorry to disappoint but effort isn't leaving SCII according to the rumour(not retiring) so that starleague is gonna have to wait lol
Ok then anyone versus Bisu *drool*
>Effort was my favorite zerg, my 'neo-sAviOr', sigh
you don't like killer?
The only zerg I didn't like was Hyuk
oh, may I ask why? lol. He seems like a likeable fellow
I don't know really, he just annoyed me, and he would do things that would make my brain die when he played... Now players like Shine on the other hand would make me rub my hands in glee every-time they played just because of the sheer amount of protoss buthurt and tears that would follow... aahhh, good times
Bisu hater detected.
Kidding aside, Jangbi is going to stomp on a lot of SOSPA Terrans...
jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
BeSt news all night. The time has come. I am ready!
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
BeSt news all night. The time has come. I am ready!
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
wow major news! Needs its own thread me thinks lol
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
BeSt news all night. The time has come. I am ready!
I sea what you did there Wish Jangbi's opponent's BeSt of luck
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
Wait does that mean Bisu is leaving SK telecom and going back to BW? This is pretty big news because he would be the first of the 4 pillar of BW to switch over. The 4 pillar of BW being, Jaedong, Flash, Bisu and Stork (of course this was during the rise of Jangbi and he has yet to prove he was at their lvl).
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Without sponsors we can't have a proleague (or similar team competition), without a proleague we can't have proper pro-teams. Without pro-teams we can't have salaried players, and without salaried players we can't have BW anywhere near what it used to be.
Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place. Basically unless Kespa (or another group of large sponsors) wants to put money back in BW, even SC2 collapsing isn't going to do us that much good, we will get our players back, but thats about it.
On September 01 2013 18:12 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place.
Only choice is to completely start anew. Slowly grow (if possible) is the first step, and in case of a miracle, the growth may be large enough that some infrastructure can be rebuilt.
On September 01 2013 20:01 GGzerG wrote: AND SO IT BEGUN.......I think this will spark the rebirth of BW.....
If only Blizzard wasn't so against BW, we could get an enhanced version of BW (with proper BNet functions, a combination of WC3 BNet and iCCup, plus some BNet 2.0 functions to top it off) - Brood War: Revival. :D
Too many good Protoss, but so few good Zerg. Killer needs more ppl by his side to battle against the arrogant alien race and the pussy long range human .
On September 01 2013 20:43 vndestiny wrote: Too many good Protoss, but so few good Zerg. Killer needs more ppl by his side to battle against the arrogant alien race and the pussy long range human .
That's what we thought at first when we had Horang2, Tyson, Brave, Perfectman, and Movie as they were all solid A teamers before. But then only Movie really stood out. Look at the last SRTs/SSL... Even SRT 15, which had 5 protoss in the ro8, ended up with the 3 non-protoss players taking the first 3 places...
On September 01 2013 20:01 GGzerG wrote: AND SO IT BEGUN.......I think this will spark the rebirth of BW.....
If only Blizzard wasn't so against BW, we could get an enhanced version of BW (with proper BNet functions, a combination of WC3 BNet and iCCup, plus some BNet 2.0 functions to top it off) - Brood War: Revival. :D
Lol just you wait until BW starts getting big again and they try to kill it off because SC2 in Korea will be even bigger of a flop by then lol.
On September 01 2013 18:12 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Without sponsors we can't have a proleague (or similar team competition), without a proleague we can't have proper pro-teams. Without pro-teams we can't have salaried players, and without salaried players we can't have BW anywhere near what it used to be.
Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place. Basically unless Kespa (or another group of large sponsors) wants to put money back in BW, even SC2 collapsing isn't going to do us that much good, we will get our players back, but thats about it.
We'll just have to get new corporate overlords. I think it's really important to try to grow BW in the foreign scene, to make the sponsors like Red Bull and Razor who sponsor goddamn everything to throw some cash BW's way.
On September 01 2013 22:49 theseraph wrote: i really hope bisu gives sc2 another shot before doing so. then i'd be unopposed to him stomping people out in SOSPA.
He's been doing it for a year. He's out of shots to give.
Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
On September 01 2013 18:55 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 18:12 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Without sponsors we can't have a proleague (or similar team competition), without a proleague we can't have proper pro-teams. Without pro-teams we can't have salaried players, and without salaried players we can't have BW anywhere near what it used to be.
Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place. Basically unless Kespa (or another group of large sponsors) wants to put money back in BW, even SC2 collapsing isn't going to do us that much good, we will get our players back, but thats about it.
We'll just have to get new corporate overlords. I think it's really important to try to grow BW in the foreign scene, to make the sponsors like Red Bull and Razor who sponsor goddamn everything to throw some cash BW's way.
I wish that is what is going to happen, words could not adequately explain how much I wished in my heart of hearts that it could be. However, that said, call me a fatalist, I can't help but notice the odds are heavily stacked against us.
SC2 had a few things going for it that BW didn't, kinda funnily enough SC2 didn't strictly need Kespa, but BW did.
For one thing, SC2 was new, there still a sense (perhaps mistaken) among the community at the start that maybe foreign players would be competitive with the Korean scene. And for whatever reason, this was an important driving force behind the globalisation of SC2 esports. This is also why SC2 could get big foreign sponsors like Red Bull and Razor, who's primary market is outside of SK. Perhaps some strange manifestation of patriotism, why ever it is, it was important for there to be at least that illusion of the professional scene not being Koreacentric for there to be as large of a foreign fanbase as there was.
For another, SC2 has the backing of Blizzard, they want the SC2 scene to be successful, since they still have an expansion to sell.
BW has neither of these going for it. Blizzard's profits from BW sales are going to be negligible, they literally do not give a shit about BW so long as it's not interfering with SC2 sales. The question of competitiveness between the foreign scene compared to the Korean one is a question that is well and truly settled, we've had showmatches aplenty and a decade of WCGs to unequivocally disabuse us of that notion. The competitive professional scene is defined by the Korean one, while it has a loyal foreign fanbase, and it's simply not going to be profitable for foreign sponsors pick up Kespa's slack.
Which takes me back to my original quote, it's a shame SC2/Blizzard pulled out that infrastructure from underneath us. Kespa may have been inept and corrupt, but it was important to us, far more so than it was/is to SC2.
I mean it's great we get some of our players back, it's better than nothing. And I guess we can still pray for a miracle that Kespa or other large Korean companies champion the BW cause, but lets face it, the chances of BW getting back to anything like it's former glory is pretty grim. We can still be happy that the future of BW looks alot brighter than it did a week ago, and it pains me to say this, but lets not get too carried away.
^ I firmly do believe that if Birdie's server takes off, it will do great for foreign scene. And if the Koreans start to advertise it on Fish and maybe they'll work something out of having a worldwide cross play with Birdie's server running in the North American territory, Fish server for Korea, VS Server for China, and ICCup for Europe but with all of Birdie's features and to be able to play with each other with little to not lag, then BW will most likely bring in new blood to try the game out. Let's face it though, the older guys will fall out a bit by bit, and the newer guys could overtake them.
And in terms of graphics, I think that as time prolongs, there will be enough enough in the programming community to render the pixel of the game into higher resolution with more details and clarity. Now I'm not exactly sure how we might get to that point as we speak but I'm majoring in the computer science and there are 150 students in my class with ambitions so there are definitely plans to make a name of ourselves in the near future.
We can solve all of these obstacles that stands in our way by ourselves and I think that as long as we work hard to spread the scene around, share SOSPA leagues with friends, encourage other to try out the DRTL, we can shift the momentum around and have a second coming of the game. And for sponsors, please try to get ANYONE, no matter how minuscule you think their contribution will be, a penny gained is one step closer. Us attracting new players and spectators means higher status of sponsors which in turn incur in more people watching.
The only problem is that someone have to start rolling the dice to commence the machine and the stars will align.
EDIT: But our great "hypothetical" asset is Day[9], and Tastosis. They have many followers. If we are able to get them into BW restructuring, then our size will explodes. But too bad that they fall into victims of capitalism. Day[9], if you think that BW is so great and everything but without ever making a BW dailies after the release of SC2, that love is all moot and vapid.
On September 01 2013 18:55 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 18:12 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Without sponsors we can't have a proleague (or similar team competition), without a proleague we can't have proper pro-teams. Without pro-teams we can't have salaried players, and without salaried players we can't have BW anywhere near what it used to be.
Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place. Basically unless Kespa (or another group of large sponsors) wants to put money back in BW, even SC2 collapsing isn't going to do us that much good, we will get our players back, but thats about it.
We'll just have to get new corporate overlords. I think it's really important to try to grow BW in the foreign scene, to make the sponsors like Red Bull and Razor who sponsor goddamn everything to throw some cash BW's way.
I wish that is what is going to happen, words could not adequately explain how much I wished in my heart of hearts that it could be. However, that said, call me a fatalist, I can't help but notice the odds are heavily stacked against us.
SC2 had a few things going for it that BW didn't, kinda funnily enough SC2 didn't strictly need Kespa, but BW did.
For one thing, SC2 was new, there still a sense (perhaps mistaken) among the community at the start that maybe foreign players would be competitive with the Korean scene. And for whatever reason, this was an important driving force behind the globalisation of SC2 esports. This is also why SC2 could get big foreign sponsors like Red Bull and Razor, who's primary market is outside of SK. Perhaps some strange manifestation of patriotism, why ever it is, it was important for there to be at least that illusion of the professional scene not being Koreacentric for there to be as large of a foreign fanbase as there was.
For another, SC2 has the backing of Blizzard, they want the SC2 scene to be successful, since they still have an expansion to sell.
BW has neither of these going for it. Blizzard's profits from BW sales are going to be negligible, they literally do not give a shit about BW so long as it's not interfering with SC2 sales. The question of competitiveness between the foreign scene compared to the Korean one is a question that is well and truly settled, we've had showmatches aplenty and a decade of WCGs to unequivocally disabuse us of that notion. The competitive professional scene is defined by the Korean one, while it has a loyal foreign fanbase, and it's simply not going to be profitable for foreign sponsors pick up Kespa's slack.
Which takes me back to my original quote, it's a shame SC2/Blizzard pulled out that infrastructure from underneath us. Kespa may have been inept and corrupt, but it was important to us, far more so than it was/is to SC2.
I mean it's great we get some of our players back, it's better than nothing. And I guess we can still pray for a miracle that Kespa or other large Korean companies champion the BW cause, but lets face it, the chances of BW getting back to anything like it's former glory is pretty grim. We can still be happy that the future of BW looks alot brighter than it did a week ago, and it pains me to say this, but lets not get too carried away.
I think you're dead on. Keep in mind that SSL/DRT is going strong atm and with Jangbi, possibly Jaehoon and likely Bisu eventually joining SOSPA, the number of viewers will increase. If it increases enough then Sonic can get better sponsors etc... and while BW will never the same as its past since PL rules have changed, teams disbanded etc... it can at least grow and become more stable. I guess what I'm saying is that maybe SSL will grow to OSL/MSL levels with decent prize pools so even without PL, we can get the same feeling with the awesome intros.
On September 01 2013 23:06 figq wrote: Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
This! The problem is Blizzard developers seem to have some serious ego issues and insecurities. That's why they have tried to undermine BW for several past years instead of winning Korea fair and square.
I can say just one think - PLAY THE F*CKING GAME , play it whit your heart , play it until the sun comes up and a brighter day is in front of you , until your last breath.Brood War i love you.
Thank you KeSPA for switching focus to LoL, and Riot for making LoL the biggest esports title in SK. Now the players that forced to play the game that they don't actually like can return where they belong.
On September 01 2013 23:06 figq wrote: Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
This! The problem is Blizzard developers seem to have some serious ego issues and insecurities. That's why they have tried to undermine BW for several past years instead of winning Korea fair and square.
Why would Blizzard pump so much money into SCII to try and make it the leading esports in Korea then turn around and start pumping into BW and leave SCII in the dust? It'll never happen because it'll alienate any fans that they made with SCII likely losing them a large chunk of money and they are a business after all. Just imagine the community outcry(SCII section) if such a thing happened. They're already singing SCII is dying lol. On top of that, Blizzard should've just invested into BW in the first place but they would make more money prompting SCII since LoTV is still coming out in ~2 years time or so. Ya, they have some ego issues with refusing to have certain mechanics in SCII that should be normal imo like high ground advantage.
On September 01 2013 23:06 figq wrote: Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
This! The problem is Blizzard developers seem to have some serious ego issues and insecurities. That's why they have tried to undermine BW for several past years instead of winning Korea fair and square.
Why would Blizzard pump so much money into SCII to try and make it the leading esports in Korea then turn around and start pumping into BW and leave SCII in the dust? It'll never happen because it'll alienate any fans that they made with SCII likely losing them a large chunk of money and they are a business after all. Just imagine the community outcry(SCII section) if such a thing happened. They're already singing SCII is dying lol. On top of that, Blizzard should've just invested into BW in the first place but they would make more money prompting SCII since LoTV is still coming out in ~2 years time or so. Ya, they have some ego issues with refusing to have certain mechanics in SCII that should be normal imo like high ground advantage.
I'm not talking about investing a lot of money into BW in Korea. The drive is already there, moreso than in case of SC2, afaik. Using WC3's BNet infrastructure/code (which seems to be compatible with BW) and possibly integrating iCCup etc. features (I don't think their creators would oppose that) does not take that much effort. And they wouldn't have to leave SC2 in the dust either - the games are different enough for them to get Blizzard's support.
I'm pretty sure they could come up with a new model of monetizing BW that takes into account the PC Bang culture, UMS community, map making community, the sports culture and so on. I mean, if Valve can make a fortune by selling hats, why can't Blizzard do the same? Their fanbase used to be equally enthusiastic as Valve's.
On September 01 2013 20:01 GGzerG wrote: AND SO IT BEGUN.......I think this will spark the rebirth of BW.....
If only Blizzard wasn't so against BW, we could get an enhanced version of BW (with proper BNet functions, a combination of WC3 BNet and iCCup, plus some BNet 2.0 functions to top it off) - Brood War: Revival. :D
On September 01 2013 23:06 figq wrote: Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
This! The problem is Blizzard developers seem to have some serious ego issues and insecurities. That's why they have tried to undermine BW for several past years instead of winning Korea fair and square.
Why would Blizzard pump so much money into SCII to try and make it the leading esports in Korea then turn around and start pumping into BW and leave SCII in the dust? It'll never happen because it'll alienate any fans that they made with SCII likely losing them a large chunk of money and they are a business after all. Just imagine the community outcry(SCII section) if such a thing happened. They're already singing SCII is dying lol. On top of that, Blizzard should've just invested into BW in the first place but they would make more money prompting SCII since LoTV is still coming out in ~2 years time or so. Ya, they have some ego issues with refusing to have certain mechanics in SCII that should be normal imo like high ground advantage.
I'm not talking about investing a lot of money into BW in Korea. The drive is already there, moreso than in case of SC2, afaik. Using WC3's BNet infrastructure/code (which seems to be compatible with BW) and possibly integrating iCCup etc. features (I don't think their creators would oppose that) does not take that much effort. And they wouldn't have to leave SC2 in the dust either - the games are different enough for them to get Blizzard's support.
I'm pretty sure they could come up with a new model of monetizing BW that takes into account the PC Bang culture, UMS community, map making community, the sports culture and so on. I mean, if Valve can make a fortune by selling hats, why can't Blizzard do the same? Their fanbase used to be equally enthusiastic as Valve's.
hmm thing is, by keeping both BW and SCII, you are splitting up the RTS esports market. I see your point though and even though it's valid, I highly doubt Blizzard will do it. To them, BW is old and SCII is its replacement that 'they' made which is why they have a large ego when it comes to SCII and flat out refuse some of the communities' suggestions. Yes, Blizzard's fanbase can be equally as enthusiastic but it doesn't seem like Blizzard will make the right moves to take advantage of that.
i doubt blizzard is going to support BW ever, as they never did before. They did bet on SC2 to be the next big epsort thing and they are going to stick with it. However i've decided to watch the vods of the final two OSL in tribute to Jangbi now.
On September 02 2013 04:49 Cele wrote: i doubt blizzard is going to support BW ever, as they never did before. They did bet on SC2 to be the next big epsort thing and they are going to stick with it. However i've decided to watch the vods of the final two OSL in tribute to Jangbi now.
On September 01 2013 20:15 Gamegene wrote: Every zerg in SSL just shed a tear.
SSL Zergs are very sharp-toothed when it comes to killing a protoss.
I seem to remember Bisu having the biggest, sharpest PvZ teeth in the buisness
JangBi was one of the best players in the game at the end. Jaehoon was finally overcoming nerves and doing well at the end too (something like 64% WR over last calendar year of BW) and just rolled hero 2-0.
On September 02 2013 04:49 Cele wrote: i doubt blizzard is going to support BW ever, as they never did before. They did bet on SC2 to be the next big epsort thing and they are going to stick with it. However i've decided to watch the vods of the final two OSL in tribute to Jangbi now.
On September 02 2013 04:49 Cele wrote: i doubt blizzard is going to support BW ever, as they never did before. They did bet on SC2 to be the next big epsort thing and they are going to stick with it. However i've decided to watch the vods of the final two OSL in tribute to Jangbi now.
On September 01 2013 20:15 Gamegene wrote: Every zerg in SSL just shed a tear.
SSL Zergs are very sharp-toothed when it comes to killing a protoss.
I seem to remember Bisu having the biggest, sharpest PvZ teeth in the buisness
JangBi was one of the best players in the game at the end. Jaehoon was finally overcoming nerves and doing well at the end too (something like 64% WR over last calendar year of BW) and just rolled hero 2-0.
Afreeca protoss is getting a major buff!
Well, then it's time to see how good Hero and Killer are!
On September 02 2013 08:28 SkelA wrote: I would actually start watching BW again.... if streams were not a total shit everytime i tried to.
Anything specific I can improve?
I don't think it is wrongdoings on your part Snipealot, it is more about the function of the contemporary Twitch.tv system. A few weeks ago, the stream ran at a very smooth pace but lately there happened to a few lag spikes there and there. This doesn't just concern us but also other games (as I've seen complaints on multiple fronts).
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
shit just got real in sospa!
im sry but before we get all over exited again... why would pro7ect know this for sure? He didnt provide a link to korean or anything.
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
shit just got real in sospa!
im sry but before we get all over exited again... why would pro7ect know this for sure? He didnt provide a link to korean or anything.
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
shit just got real in sospa!
im sry but before we get all over exited again... why would pro7ect know this for sure? He didnt provide a link to korean or anything.
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote: jangbi is coming BACK! =) Project twit: https://twitter.com/Pro7ecT/status/373886710611845120 "Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!" WOW!! Its GREAT!
shit just got real in sospa!
im sry but before we get all over exited again... why would pro7ect know this for sure? He didnt provide a link to korean or anything.
pro7ect is korean, probably knows someone
this was what i was thinking about, pretty much. jangbi joining sospa isn't too far-fetched is it? i'm also just trying to be positive here
On September 02 2013 08:28 SkelA wrote: I would actually start watching BW again.... if streams were not a total shit everytime i tried to.
Anything specific I can improve?
Obviously the stream is badass. I never have any problems with the stream itself.
The only, and I mean literally only thing I have any issue with is that VOD lengths sometimes get pretty long. When they start getting 40, 60, 90+ hours, you can only jump in like 20 min increments which makes it a pain if you want to skip somewhere specific.
On September 02 2013 08:28 SkelA wrote: I would actually start watching BW again.... if streams were not a total shit everytime i tried to.
Anything specific I can improve?
Obviously the stream is badass. I never have any problems with the stream itself.
The only, and I mean literally only thing I have any issue with is that VOD lengths sometimes get pretty long. When they start getting 40, 60, 90+ hours, you can only jump in like 20 min increments which makes it a pain if you want to skip somewhere specific.
The twitch interface sucks. Use timecodes in the url if you want accurate skips.
On September 02 2013 08:28 SkelA wrote: I would actually start watching BW again.... if streams were not a total shit everytime i tried to.
Anything specific I can improve?
Obviously the stream is badass. I never have any problems with the stream itself.
The only, and I mean literally only thing I have any issue with is that VOD lengths sometimes get pretty long. When they start getting 40, 60, 90+ hours, you can only jump in like 20 min increments which makes it a pain if you want to skip somewhere specific.
The twitch interface sucks. Use timecodes in the url if you want accurate skips.
My life has been revolutionized. Not sure why I didn't think of this.
There is also a script in the works for auto-restart every 24 hours at exactly 8AM KST - this means that in the future SRT will always begin at the exact same time in all the VODs and they will all be 24 hours long
So, StarCraft 2 continues shrinking, causing more old Brood War pros to join amateur leagues. The influx of old pros brings heightened interest and heightened interest brings in more sponsors. More sponsors brings in more pros, rinse and repeat until a New Golden Age of Brood War is formed. Blizzard gives up on SC2 and the new Korean StarCraft scene uses the Galaxy Editor to create StarCraft Pro, a game that combines all the best ideas from both games.
Ten years down the line, Blizzard is looking to make StarCraft 3. This time, they approach the Korean pros, asking for help. The response is "You tried to destroy us last time, why should we help you?" Dejected, Blizzard seeks out the only person they can think of to help them.
Scene opens with Browder and Kim climbing a mountain. When they reach the top, they find an old, ancient monastery. They go through giant double doors, and inside is a lone man, sitting on the floor in front of a computer screen.
KIM: That's him.
BROWDER: You sure?
KIM: Yes, he's the only bonjwa who will work with us; the only man who could be our...savior.
Cut to black. Roll credits. Stinger featuring Hong Jin Ho running for Mayor of Seoul - he comes in second when the people of Korea literally write in "Slayers_Boxer." Lim Yo Hwan's first act as President is to build a bunker across the street from Yellow's house. Begin production on the sequel, working title StarCraft Wars Episode 2: the Drone Wars. In theaters soonTM.
On September 02 2013 15:57 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote: So, StarCraft 2 continues shrinking, causing more old Brood War pros to join amateur leagues. The influx of old pros brings heightened interest and heightened interest brings in more sponsors. More sponsors brings in more pros, rinse and repeat until a New Golden Age of Brood War is formed. Blizzard gives up on SC2 and the new Korean StarCraft scene uses the Galaxy Editor to create StarCraft Pro, a game that combines all the best ideas from both games.
Ten years down the line, Blizzard is looking to make StarCraft 3. This time, they approach the Korean pros, asking for help. The response is "You tried to destroy us last time, why should we help you?" Dejected, Blizzard seeks out the only person they can think of to help them.
Scene opens with Browder and Kim climbing a mountain. When they reach the top, they find an old, ancient monastery. They go through giant double doors, and inside is a lone man, sitting on the floor in front of a computer screen.
KIM: That's him.
BROWDER: You sure?
KIM: Yes, he's the only bonjwa who will work with us; the only man who could be our...savior.
Cut to black. Roll credits. Stinger featuring Hong Jin Ho running for Mayor of Seoul - he comes in second when the people of Korea literally write in "Slayers_Boxer." Lim Yo Hwan's first act as President is to build a bunker across the street from Yellow's house. Begin production on the sequel, working title StarCraft Wars Episode 2: the Drone Wars. In theaters soonTM.
On September 02 2013 15:57 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote: So, StarCraft 2 continues shrinking, causing more old Brood War pros to join amateur leagues. The influx of old pros brings heightened interest and heightened interest brings in more sponsors. More sponsors brings in more pros, rinse and repeat until a New Golden Age of Brood War is formed. Blizzard gives up on SC2 and the new Korean StarCraft scene uses the Galaxy Editor to create StarCraft Pro, a game that combines all the best ideas from both games.
Ten years down the line, Blizzard is looking to make StarCraft 3. This time, they approach the Korean pros, asking for help. The response is "You tried to destroy us last time, why should we help you?" Dejected, Blizzard seeks out the only person they can think of to help them.
Scene opens with Browder and Kim climbing a mountain. When they reach the top, they find an old, ancient monastery. They go through giant double doors, and inside is a lone man, sitting on the floor in front of a computer screen.
KIM: That's him.
BROWDER: You sure?
KIM: Yes, he's the only bonjwa who will work with us; the only man who could be our...savior.
Cut to black. Roll credits. Stinger featuring Hong Jin Ho running for Mayor of Seoul - he comes in second when the people of Korea literally write in "Slayers_Boxer." Lim Yo Hwan's first act as President is to build a bunker across the street from Yellow's house. Begin production on the sequel, working title StarCraft Wars Episode 2: the Drone Wars. In theaters soonTM.
Pretty much a lurker here, but unburrowed just to say how much win this post is. BW for life *burrow*
On September 01 2013 18:55 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 18:12 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Without sponsors we can't have a proleague (or similar team competition), without a proleague we can't have proper pro-teams. Without pro-teams we can't have salaried players, and without salaried players we can't have BW anywhere near what it used to be.
Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place. Basically unless Kespa (or another group of large sponsors) wants to put money back in BW, even SC2 collapsing isn't going to do us that much good, we will get our players back, but thats about it.
We'll just have to get new corporate overlords. I think it's really important to try to grow BW in the foreign scene, to make the sponsors like Red Bull and Razor who sponsor goddamn everything to throw some cash BW's way.
I wish that is what is going to happen, words could not adequately explain how much I wished in my heart of hearts that it could be. However, that said, call me a fatalist, I can't help but notice the odds are heavily stacked against us.
SC2 had a few things going for it that BW didn't, kinda funnily enough SC2 didn't strictly need Kespa, but BW did.
For one thing, SC2 was new, there still a sense (perhaps mistaken) among the community at the start that maybe foreign players would be competitive with the Korean scene. And for whatever reason, this was an important driving force behind the globalisation of SC2 esports. This is also why SC2 could get big foreign sponsors like Red Bull and Razor, who's primary market is outside of SK. Perhaps some strange manifestation of patriotism, why ever it is, it was important for there to be at least that illusion of the professional scene not being Koreacentric for there to be as large of a foreign fanbase as there was.
For another, SC2 has the backing of Blizzard, they want the SC2 scene to be successful, since they still have an expansion to sell.
BW has neither of these going for it. Blizzard's profits from BW sales are going to be negligible, they literally do not give a shit about BW so long as it's not interfering with SC2 sales. The question of competitiveness between the foreign scene compared to the Korean one is a question that is well and truly settled, we've had showmatches aplenty and a decade of WCGs to unequivocally disabuse us of that notion. The competitive professional scene is defined by the Korean one, while it has a loyal foreign fanbase, and it's simply not going to be profitable for foreign sponsors pick up Kespa's slack.
Which takes me back to my original quote, it's a shame SC2/Blizzard pulled out that infrastructure from underneath us. Kespa may have been inept and corrupt, but it was important to us, far more so than it was/is to SC2.
I mean it's great we get some of our players back, it's better than nothing. And I guess we can still pray for a miracle that Kespa or other large Korean companies champion the BW cause, but lets face it, the chances of BW getting back to anything like it's former glory is pretty grim. We can still be happy that the future of BW looks alot brighter than it did a week ago, and it pains me to say this, but lets not get too carried away.
Heres the thing though, if SC2 didnt have starcraft in its name, would pplz play it as esports?
BW was the most pop esports because it was a fun and deeply rich game, you cant say the same for sc2, it will eventually drop off the face of esports.
On September 01 2013 23:25 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 22:50 Ribbon wrote:
On September 01 2013 18:55 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 18:12 Abort Retry Fail wrote:
On September 01 2013 16:03 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:44 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On September 01 2013 15:41 StarStruck wrote:
On September 01 2013 14:42 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
On September 01 2013 05:59 figq wrote: Rumor has it that Bisu is next.
Awwww SHEEEEET.
Man I'm going to lose countless hours watching BW again. Literally the best news I've heard in a long time.
Really good time for Bisu to switch back too. Even with Jangbi and BeSt, Bisu has really a good record in head to heads vs all the top players in SSL atm.
With the exception of Killer who he hasn't played much, and Ssak who was a former teamate, so they've never played an official game.
Oh and Hero, who beat him a whole bunch of times in '09.
Ofc he will be next considering the KeSPA teams will be downsizing to six players, eek. Going to see a lot of guys retiring and doing other shit like SOSPA-YA!
rumored to downsize, we'll see.
6 is too little though, should be more like 8-9.
It's a shame SC2 appropriated Kespa and all it's infrastructure.
If they were to downsize to 6, enough former BW monsters might switch to sospa that we would be able to support a small BW proleague again if only we had the sponsorship
Yeah. Lets be honest. SC2 is not working.
Lets find a way to revive BW, even just the top-tier/S-Class division.
The problem is a bunch of S-class guys in a single tournament does not a esport make. BW was going fine before SC2 came along, it may have been in decline, but it was still going.
Now even if SC2 completely collapses, Kespa, and more importantly the large commercial entities involved in Kespa are unlikely to sponsor BW. Without sponsors we can't have a proleague (or similar team competition), without a proleague we can't have proper pro-teams. Without pro-teams we can't have salaried players, and without salaried players we can't have BW anywhere near what it used to be.
Basically we can take back our players, but we can't take back the infrastructure, which ironically we built in the first place. Basically unless Kespa (or another group of large sponsors) wants to put money back in BW, even SC2 collapsing isn't going to do us that much good, we will get our players back, but thats about it.
We'll just have to get new corporate overlords. I think it's really important to try to grow BW in the foreign scene, to make the sponsors like Red Bull and Razor who sponsor goddamn everything to throw some cash BW's way.
I wish that is what is going to happen, words could not adequately explain how much I wished in my heart of hearts that it could be. However, that said, call me a fatalist, I can't help but notice the odds are heavily stacked against us.
SC2 had a few things going for it that BW didn't, kinda funnily enough SC2 didn't strictly need Kespa, but BW did.
For one thing, SC2 was new, there still a sense (perhaps mistaken) among the community at the start that maybe foreign players would be competitive with the Korean scene. And for whatever reason, this was an important driving force behind the globalisation of SC2 esports. This is also why SC2 could get big foreign sponsors like Red Bull and Razor, who's primary market is outside of SK. Perhaps some strange manifestation of patriotism, why ever it is, it was important for there to be at least that illusion of the professional scene not being Koreacentric for there to be as large of a foreign fanbase as there was.
For another, SC2 has the backing of Blizzard, they want the SC2 scene to be successful, since they still have an expansion to sell.
BW has neither of these going for it. Blizzard's profits from BW sales are going to be negligible, they literally do not give a shit about BW so long as it's not interfering with SC2 sales. The question of competitiveness between the foreign scene compared to the Korean one is a question that is well and truly settled, we've had showmatches aplenty and a decade of WCGs to unequivocally disabuse us of that notion. The competitive professional scene is defined by the Korean one, while it has a loyal foreign fanbase, and it's simply not going to be profitable for foreign sponsors pick up Kespa's slack.
Which takes me back to my original quote, it's a shame SC2/Blizzard pulled out that infrastructure from underneath us. Kespa may have been inept and corrupt, but it was important to us, far more so than it was/is to SC2.
I mean it's great we get some of our players back, it's better than nothing. And I guess we can still pray for a miracle that Kespa or other large Korean companies champion the BW cause, but lets face it, the chances of BW getting back to anything like it's former glory is pretty grim. We can still be happy that the future of BW looks alot brighter than it did a week ago, and it pains me to say this, but lets not get too carried away.
Heres the thing though, if SC2 didnt have starcraft in its name, would pplz play it as esports?
BW was the most pop esports because it was a fun and deeply rich game, you cant say the same for sc2, it will eventually drop off the face of esports.
well yeah i mean bw still outlasted warIII i really wish they go back --
On September 01 2013 23:06 figq wrote: Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
This! The problem is Blizzard developers seem to have some serious ego issues and insecurities. That's why they have tried to undermine BW for several past years instead of winning Korea fair and square.
Why would Blizzard pump so much money into SCII to try and make it the leading esports in Korea then turn around and start pumping into BW and leave SCII in the dust? It'll never happen because it'll alienate any fans that they made with SCII likely losing them a large chunk of money and they are a business after all. Just imagine the community outcry(SCII section) if such a thing happened. They're already singing SCII is dying lol. On top of that, Blizzard should've just invested into BW in the first place but they would make more money prompting SCII since LoTV is still coming out in ~2 years time or so. Ya, they have some ego issues with refusing to have certain mechanics in SCII that should be normal imo like high ground advantage.
I'm not talking about investing a lot of money into BW in Korea. The drive is already there, moreso than in case of SC2, afaik. Using WC3's BNet infrastructure/code (which seems to be compatible with BW) and possibly integrating iCCup etc. features (I don't think their creators would oppose that) does not take that much effort. And they wouldn't have to leave SC2 in the dust either - the games are different enough for them to get Blizzard's support.
I'm pretty sure they could come up with a new model of monetizing BW that takes into account the PC Bang culture, UMS community, map making community, the sports culture and so on. I mean, if Valve can make a fortune by selling hats, why can't Blizzard do the same? Their fanbase used to be equally enthusiastic as Valve's.
hmm thing is, by keeping both BW and SCII, you are splitting up the RTS esports market. I see your point though and even though it's valid, I highly doubt Blizzard will do it. To them, BW is old and SCII is its replacement that 'they' made which is why they have a large ego when it comes to SCII and flat out refuse some of the communities' suggestions. Yes, Blizzard's fanbase can be equally as enthusiastic but it doesn't seem like Blizzard will make the right moves to take advantage of that.
It's a myth. KeSPA's SC2 audience is closer to GOM's SC2 audience than to KeSPA's BW audience (just look at the seats, the portion of foreigners is quite similar). Many fans simply did not switch and you also had many people watch both games, so I don't think that splitting the RTS esports scene is much of an issue here.
I thought fantasy was good at sc2. Not sure he needed saving.
He's had some good games and shown some truly great play but ultimately he's just very inconsistent. The talent most definitely still shines through at times but it hasn't produced any notable results, certainly none fitting of his legacy.
Actually wait, I thought the article was talking about players going into that negotiation thingy? Won't T1 just hire him again? Why all this talk of retirement? :/
Well if Fantasy really does decide to retire I sure hope he'll play in SOSPA events, cause at first when I saw that Jangbi retired I instantly reacted as if I was never going to be able to watch him play anymore and that made my so sad, even in the SC2 Proleague I woke up at like 4-5am everyday KHAN played mostly due to him, but now after the fact that he'll actually play in SOSPA events I just want more of my favorite players to join in. Leta & Fantasy please.
Holy shit. Skt releasing fantasy. That's so stupid. He's been so integral to skt success. Unless he's retiring SC2 I'm pissed at skt.
Fantasy's free agent status does not mean that SKT has released him; it just means that the term of his contract is over. Jaedong went through the same process a few years ago while sitting at the top of KeSPA's ranking and he re-signed with oz. Maybe SKT doesn't want Fantasy anymore, but there is no way to make that determination based on his status as a free agent.
I thought fantasy was good at sc2. Not sure he needed saving.
IMO Fantasy never reach that stage in SC2 where he can be consider "good", he just had the mentality for it. Time and time again he has mentioned in interviews that SC2 is more suited to his play style, yet every time we were disappointed. Interestingly, Janbi also said the similar things in interviews before he quit.
On September 01 2013 23:06 figq wrote: Blizzard still have so much opportunity on their hands with BW, they probably don't even realize. BW is still their IP. They could renovate it, promote it all over Korea for a second big wave of BW esports, and require some reasonable % of that economy, for providing the rights. Everybody could win. Hell, if Blizzard would play that card well, they could easily win more money from BW in Korea than from SC2. Keep in mind they do invest a crapton of money in the development of SC2, and for BW they have everything ready and done, only requiring some addons, like matchmaking and stuff.
This! The problem is Blizzard developers seem to have some serious ego issues and insecurities. That's why they have tried to undermine BW for several past years instead of winning Korea fair and square.
Why would Blizzard pump so much money into SCII to try and make it the leading esports in Korea then turn around and start pumping into BW and leave SCII in the dust? It'll never happen because it'll alienate any fans that they made with SCII likely losing them a large chunk of money and they are a business after all. Just imagine the community outcry(SCII section) if such a thing happened. They're already singing SCII is dying lol. On top of that, Blizzard should've just invested into BW in the first place but they would make more money prompting SCII since LoTV is still coming out in ~2 years time or so. Ya, they have some ego issues with refusing to have certain mechanics in SCII that should be normal imo like high ground advantage.
I'm not talking about investing a lot of money into BW in Korea. The drive is already there, moreso than in case of SC2, afaik. Using WC3's BNet infrastructure/code (which seems to be compatible with BW) and possibly integrating iCCup etc. features (I don't think their creators would oppose that) does not take that much effort. And they wouldn't have to leave SC2 in the dust either - the games are different enough for them to get Blizzard's support.
I'm pretty sure they could come up with a new model of monetizing BW that takes into account the PC Bang culture, UMS community, map making community, the sports culture and so on. I mean, if Valve can make a fortune by selling hats, why can't Blizzard do the same? Their fanbase used to be equally enthusiastic as Valve's.
hmm thing is, by keeping both BW and SCII, you are splitting up the RTS esports market. I see your point though and even though it's valid, I highly doubt Blizzard will do it. To them, BW is old and SCII is its replacement that 'they' made which is why they have a large ego when it comes to SCII and flat out refuse some of the communities' suggestions. Yes, Blizzard's fanbase can be equally as enthusiastic but it doesn't seem like Blizzard will make the right moves to take advantage of that.
It's a myth. KeSPA's SC2 audience is closer to GOM's SC2 audience than to KeSPA's BW audience (just look at the seats, the portion of foreigners is quite similar). Many fans simply did not switch and you also had many people watch both games, so I don't think that splitting the RTS esports scene is much of an issue here.
hmm fair enough. It probably won't be much of an issue then.
I thought fantasy was good at sc2. Not sure he needed saving.
he was ok, definitely not what he was in BW though. He said SCII fit his playstyle yet he disappointed a lot. Not sure why, maybe he just doesn't enjoy it as much and that's understandable imo.
On September 02 2013 22:21 Xiphos wrote: You want Terrans and Zergs????
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
More like the game isn't hard enough to clearly separate the good players from the bad
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
More like the game isn't hard enough to clearly separate the good players from the bad
yeah that's a very clear problem that everybody can observe who followed Sc2 a bit more. It has become slightly better with HotS, but i still think there isn enough room to show superior skill. Flash said this as well in an interview.
A little sad of what this means for SC2 but I'm pretty giddy about the prospect of him playing some Brood War once again. He got godlike just as BW died out.
But in the present state of the StarCraft 2 scene, the real question is why wouldn't INnoVation leave KeSPA?
Remember that time INnoVation won the Korean qualifier for IEM Shanghai, earned himself a fully paid trip to China, and then couldn't go because his team was playing Proleague that weekend? Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
This articles about why KeSPA pros might want to switch to foreign teams, but it's interesting to think about it in the context of retiring, as well. Pretty much all the money in SC2 is put in a safe marked "Not for KeSPA players". It's probably a big part of why all the KeSPA pros are jumping ship and hardly any of the eSF pros are (remember, a lot of the older SC2 pros were BW pros or semi-pros, so BW remains a viable option for, say, MarineKing). Innovation (Bogus) may literally having been giving up more prize money to Soul than they were paying him.
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
More like the game isn't hard enough to clearly separate the good players from the bad
yeah that's a very clear problem that everybody can observe who followed Sc2 a bit more. It has become slightly better with HotS, but i still think there isn enough room to show superior skill. Flash said this as well in an interview.
hmm you both make a good point. Some things in SCII are quite rigid such as needing vikings for colossi otherwise you die lol. I think the smart AI and smart casting all resulted in a decrease in the skill required and most players play the same style so you can't separate players based on their different styles etc... Maybe Blizzard will get it right with LoTV or maybe they'll just add a couple more units, patch a bit then leave SCII be.
Remember that time INnoVation won the Korean qualifier for IEM Shanghai, earned himself a fully paid trip to China, and then couldn't go because his team was playing Proleague that weekend? Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
This articles about why KeSPA pros might want to switch to foreign teams, but it's interesting to think about it in the context of retiring, as well. Pretty much all the money in SC2 is put in a safe marked "Not for KeSPA players". It's probably a big part of why all the KeSPA pros are jumping ship and hardly any of the eSF pros are (remember, a lot of the older SC2 pros were BW pros or semi-pros, so BW remains a viable option for, say, MarineKing). Innovation (Bogus) may literally having been giving up more prize money to Soul than they were paying him.
That article is all truth. If you are on a KeSPA team and you're a really good player(think Jaedong for ex if he was still on team 8) then you are missing out on a lot of money and you get to keep most of it for yourself. On top of that, you travel a lot, meet lots of new people etc... Jaedong is definitely loving his time on EG and I'm sure he'll stay on for another year at least.
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
More like the game isn't hard enough to clearly separate the good players from the bad
yeah that's a very clear problem that everybody can observe who followed Sc2 a bit more. It has become slightly better with HotS, but i still think there isn enough room to show superior skill. Flash said this as well in an interview.
hmm you both make a good point. Some things in SCII are quite rigid such as needing vikings for colossi otherwise you die lol. I think the smart AI and smart casting all resulted in a decrease in the skill required and most players play the same style so you can't separate players based on their different styles etc... Maybe Blizzard will get it right with LoTV or maybe they'll just add a couple more units, patch a bit then leave SCII be.
But in the present state of the StarCraft 2 scene, the real question is why wouldn't INnoVation leave KeSPA?
Remember that time INnoVation won the Korean qualifier for IEM Shanghai, earned himself a fully paid trip to China, and then couldn't go because his team was playing Proleague that weekend? Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
This articles about why KeSPA pros might want to switch to foreign teams, but it's interesting to think about it in the context of retiring, as well. Pretty much all the money in SC2 is put in a safe marked "Not for KeSPA players". It's probably a big part of why all the KeSPA pros are jumping ship and hardly any of the eSF pros are (remember, a lot of the older SC2 pros were BW pros or semi-pros, so BW remains a viable option for, say, MarineKing). Innovation (Bogus) may literally having been giving up more prize money to Soul than they were paying him.
That article is all truth. If you are on a KeSPA team and you're a really good player(think Jaedong for ex if he was still on team 8) then you are missing out on a lot of money and you get to keep most of it for yourself. On top of that, you travel a lot, meet lots of new people etc... Jaedong is definitely loving his time on EG and I'm sure he'll stay on for another year at least.
On the other hand, you are entering an economy that is very top-weighted. There is a limit to how many tournaments a player can travel to in a year, and how many of those tournaments the player is going to win. Then what? For how long the tournament cash winning economy is going to last before people realize it can only support a handful of players? What about anybody else? For how long are the NA and EU scenes going to be sustainable once most of the money goes to Koreans flying in?
The fundamental change in the Korea that actually made eSports sustainable was the fact that the money was not concentrated in the top 1% of the players. That was the whole point of Boxer making sure that the whole team, and not just himself, is to be sponsored by SKTelecom.
How can I not feel that Blizzard is causing Starcraft to move backwards? Korea, once the capital of eSports, is no longer able to maintain its sustainability, causing an exodus of players which make it practically impossible for other regions to sustain themselves. Starcraft is cannibalizing itself.
eSports were not created when Starcraft II was released. Sustainable eSports are not rocket science. It was already figured out in Korea: have a game people actually like playing, have competition grow from those players, competition brings audience, which brings more competition organically. Eventually, once you have enough audience, you can bring sponsorship to competition. Everything went upside down with Starcraft II.
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
There's not a doubt about it. I mean look at Bisu...:'(
Being on fa status doesnt mean they got released. They are just negotiating contracts etc . Maybe he will en d up in afreeca or renew contracts with t1
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
More like the game isn't hard enough to clearly separate the good players from the bad
yeah that's a very clear problem that everybody can observe who followed Sc2 a bit more. It has become slightly better with HotS, but i still think there isn enough room to show superior skill. Flash said this as well in an interview.
hmm you both make a good point. Some things in SCII are quite rigid such as needing vikings for colossi otherwise you die lol. I think the smart AI and smart casting all resulted in a decrease in the skill required and most players play the same style so you can't separate players based on their different styles etc... Maybe Blizzard will get it right with LoTV or maybe they'll just add a couple more units, patch a bit then leave SCII be.
On September 03 2013 11:24 Ribbon wrote:
On September 03 2013 04:01 Mindcrime wrote:
On September 03 2013 02:12 BisuDagger wrote:
On September 02 2013 22:21 Xiphos wrote: You want Terrans and Zergs????
On September 02 2013 21:35 nighcol wrote:
On September 02 2013 21:14 Arceus wrote: in other news, EffOrt, sKyHigh, Shine, Fantasy, BaBy enter free-agent, negotiation starts Sept 3
But in the present state of the StarCraft 2 scene, the real question is why wouldn't INnoVation leave KeSPA?
Remember that time INnoVation won the Korean qualifier for IEM Shanghai, earned himself a fully paid trip to China, and then couldn't go because his team was playing Proleague that weekend? Revival ended up winning that tournament, taking home the first place prize of $10,000. Revival. I'm going to leave it to you to imagine what would have happened if INnoVation played Revival.
This articles about why KeSPA pros might want to switch to foreign teams, but it's interesting to think about it in the context of retiring, as well. Pretty much all the money in SC2 is put in a safe marked "Not for KeSPA players". It's probably a big part of why all the KeSPA pros are jumping ship and hardly any of the eSF pros are (remember, a lot of the older SC2 pros were BW pros or semi-pros, so BW remains a viable option for, say, MarineKing). Innovation (Bogus) may literally having been giving up more prize money to Soul than they were paying him.
That article is all truth. If you are on a KeSPA team and you're a really good player(think Jaedong for ex if he was still on team 8) then you are missing out on a lot of money and you get to keep most of it for yourself. On top of that, you travel a lot, meet lots of new people etc... Jaedong is definitely loving his time on EG and I'm sure he'll stay on for another year at least.
On the other hand, you are entering an economy that is very top-weighted. There is a limit to how many tournaments a player can travel to in a year, and how many of those tournaments the player is going to win. Then what? For how long the tournament cash winning economy is going to last before people realize it can only support a handful of players? What about anybody else? For how long are the NA and EU scenes going to be sustainable once most of the money goes to Koreans flying in?
The fundamental change in the Korea that actually made eSports sustainable was the fact that the money was not concentrated in the top 1% of the players. That was the whole point of Boxer making sure that the whole team, and not just himself, is to be sponsored by SKTelecom.
How can I not feel that Blizzard is causing Starcraft to move backwards? Korea, once the capital of eSports, is no longer able to maintain its sustainability, causing an exodus of players which make it practically impossible for other regions to sustain themselves. Starcraft is cannibalizing itself.
eSports were not created when Starcraft II was released. Sustainable eSports are not rocket science. It was already figured out in Korea: have a game people actually like playing, have competition grow from those players, competition brings audience, which brings more competition organically. Eventually, once you have enough audience, you can bring sponsorship to competition. Everything went upside down with Starcraft II.
hmm I see your point. It's disappointing that SC in Korea is declining but SSL/SRT is getting better. Let's wait and see what happens and if BW can make a comeback!
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
There's not a doubt about it. I mean look at Bisu...:'(
Guys stop comparing the two games. They're very fucking different. Just because you had success with one doesn't mean you will find success with the other.
On September 02 2013 15:57 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote: So, StarCraft 2 continues shrinking, causing more old Brood War pros to join amateur leagues. The influx of old pros brings heightened interest and heightened interest brings in more sponsors. More sponsors brings in more pros, rinse and repeat until a New Golden Age of Brood War is formed. Blizzard gives up on SC2 and the new Korean StarCraft scene uses the Galaxy Editor to create StarCraft Pro, a game that combines all the best ideas from both games.
Ten years down the line, Blizzard is looking to make StarCraft 3. This time, they approach the Korean pros, asking for help. The response is "You tried to destroy us last time, why should we help you?" Dejected, Blizzard seeks out the only person they can think of to help them.
Scene opens with Browder and Kim climbing a mountain. When they reach the top, they find an old, ancient monastery. They go through giant double doors, and inside is a lone man, sitting on the floor in front of a computer screen.
KIM: That's him.
BROWDER: You sure?
KIM: Yes, he's the only bonjwa who will work with us; the only man who could be our...savior.
Cut to black. Roll credits. Stinger featuring Hong Jin Ho running for Mayor of Seoul - he comes in second when the people of Korea literally write in "Slayers_Boxer." Lim Yo Hwan's first act as President is to build a bunker across the street from Yellow's house. Begin production on the sequel, working title StarCraft Wars Episode 2: the Drone Wars. In theaters soonTM.
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
There's not a doubt about it. I mean look at Bisu...:'(
Guys stop comparing the two games. They're very fucking different. Just because you had success with one doesn't mean you will find success with the other.
yes, we are aware that they are different. yes, I'm speculating about the lack of love but it's not unfounded. Parting said that Bisu was amazing in practice, he had #1 GM HoTS during beta(not sure what period) etc... From what I've seen, he performed better in HoTS but nowhere what at least I expected. That is all.
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
There's not a doubt about it. I mean look at Bisu...:'(
Guys stop comparing the two games. They're very fucking different. Just because you had success with one doesn't mean you will find success with the other.
...we're talking about the passion and love for the game.
What I'm trying to say, is that Bisu probably never enjoyed SC2 in the first place as much as he did for BW. It's quite evident through if you compare his results in both games.
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
There's not a doubt about it. I mean look at Bisu...:'(
Guys stop comparing the two games. They're very fucking different. Just because you had success with one doesn't mean you will find success with the other.
...we're talking about the passion and love for the game.
What I'm trying to say, is that Bisu probably never enjoyed SC2 in the first place as much as he did for BW. It's quite evident through if you compare his results in both games.
starstruck's point is that you can't say anything, because they're different games. The motivation issue is clouded by other factors. You might be able to analyse those factors on a larger scale, but it's meaningless in individual cases. So, no, it is not evident at all.
one thing you have to keep in mind is that players like bisu, stork, jd and so on have been on the scene for a very long time. the life as a progamer is so rigid and taxing that a player typically cant keep it up for more than 8 or so years. realistically, in a hypothetical world in which sc2 never existed and they all kept playing bw, bisu, stork, jd and others would most likely not be winning championships right now and be closer to retirement than their peak...
and as awesome as the influx of great players in the SSL scene is, i doubt that bw can truely make a sustainable comeback. i cant imagine any young kids starting to play and practice bw to the extend required for a pro or semipro career. if many old pros leave sc2 and return to bw, then bw can have another couple of good years. but in the long run, those guys will have to go to university, get jobs, go to the military and so on - and there will be no new generation of bw players to replace them.
it is very possible that we have a sponsored bw league in korea in 2014 or 2015. but in my opinion, it is close to impossible to have a thriving bw scene in 2017 or 2018.
What if brood war got new fancy graphics? The next generation seems to love those...Do you thi k that could help maybe not with a comeback but a definite increase in interest, popularity, and sponsorship of BW? Also a friend of mine said that bisu hasn't played enough televised matches to say that he sucks or is awesome in SCII...
On September 03 2013 08:01 figq wrote: Fantasy I would guess is one of those who can play well SC2 but just...um, sorry to say it... don't see the point.
I still wonder why he's struggling though. He has the skills if he can play BW at such a high level so what's holding him? Lack of love for the game? Must be I think
There's not a doubt about it. I mean look at Bisu...:'(
Guys stop comparing the two games. They're very fucking different. Just because you had success with one doesn't mean you will find success with the other.
...we're talking about the passion and love for the game.
What I'm trying to say, is that Bisu probably never enjoyed SC2 in the first place as much as he did for BW. It's quite evident through if you compare his results in both games.
starstruck's point is that you can't say anything, because they're different games. The motivation issue is clouded by other factors. You might be able to analyse those factors on a larger scale, but it's meaningless in individual cases. So, no, it is not evident at all.
On September 04 2013 04:09 traceurling wrote: What if brood war got new fancy graphics? The next generation seems to love those...Do you thi k that could help maybe not with a comeback but a definite increase in interest, popularity, and sponsorship of BW? Also a friend of mine said that bisu hasn't played enough televised matches to say that he sucks or is awesome in SCII...
It's the sponsorship that's the question.
Any sort of news on BW is basically going to increase interest and popularity at this stage with Jangbi coming back and maybe some others. But without the support of Kespa companies, sponsorship is tough. Foreign companies are unlikely to sponsor, so your basically stuck with non-Kespa Korean companies.
Although if Kespa had the courage to do a 180 and sponsor BW again that would be amazing, if exceedingly unlikely.
On September 04 2013 04:09 traceurling wrote: What if brood war got new fancy graphics? The next generation seems to love those...Do you thi k that could help maybe not with a comeback but a definite increase in interest, popularity, and sponsorship of BW?
Frankly, graphics are like the 30th biggest problem with BW, in terms of getting people into it. It doesn't work on modern OSes without some dedicated hackery, hosting games requires admin access to your router and a bit more hackery, the bnet 1.0 interface is utter garbage by modern standards (I know it's popular to hate on Bnet 2, and for good reason, but BW lives in a glass house in this regard). And while people complain about the lack of community in bnet 2, every time I open ICCUP I'm greeted by a million spanish viagra ads in the default channel (and getting a game against another guy as bad as I am? Hah. And no one will play with you if you play random).
Anyway, BW HD isn't happening, and even if it did, the BW community wouldn't actually accept it because there'd almost certainly be subtle differences between engines even if Blizz was actually trying to emulate all of BW's arcane wackiness.
No, if BW wants to get more new people involved, and I think it's a real possibility, we as a community need to do the heavy lifting. I've always thought of the SC2 fanbase as BW fans waiting to happen, and that's more true now than ever. But we need to capitalize. We need community figures, a new version of Day9 to bring back the dailies, more "fun" tournaments, etc etc etc.
I really do think we can get a semi-sizable foreign BW scene going again, if we only try.
the biggest draw of bw for most casuals were UMS. casuals are never going to play 1v1 seriously or even regularly, and let's face it, casuals make up your player base. you're never going to get them back because bw has to compete with AAA standalone UMS like dota and lol
On September 04 2013 04:09 traceurling wrote: What if brood war got new fancy graphics? The next generation seems to love those...Do you thi k that could help maybe not with a comeback but a definite increase in interest, popularity, and sponsorship of BW?
Frankly, graphics are like the 30th biggest problem with BW, in terms of getting people into it. It doesn't work on modern OSes without some dedicated hackery, hosting games requires admin access to your router and a bit more hackery, the bnet 1.0 interface is utter garbage by modern standards (I know it's popular to hate on Bnet 2, and for good reason, but BW lives in a glass house in this regard). And while people complain about the lack of community in bnet 2, every time I open ICCUP I'm greeted by a million spanish viagra ads in the default channel (and getting a game against another guy as bad as I am? Hah. And no one will play with you if you play random).
Anyway, BW HD isn't happening, and even if it did, the BW community wouldn't actually accept it because there'd almost certainly be subtle differences between engines even if Blizz was actually trying to emulate all of BW's arcane wackiness.
No, if BW wants to get more new people involved, and I think it's a real possibility, we as a community need to do the heavy lifting. I've always thought of the SC2 fanbase as BW fans waiting to happen, and that's more true now than ever. But we need to capitalize. We need community figures, a new version of Day9 to bring back the dailies, more "fun" tournaments, etc etc etc.
I really do think we can get a semi-sizable foreign BW scene going again, if we only try.
umm I've installed BW on XP, windows vista and windows 7, no issues running it so I'm not sure where you're having problems there. Hosting games is definitely an issue but with fish or the new Starserver, it should be less of a problem. Bnet 1.0 interface feels more alive than Bnet 2.0 but ya, doesn't hold up as well to some of today's interface. With iccup, you can host a game, you can play games for hours on end and get players easily but I see your point.
Yes, I agree. SCII players can always play BW but we need to fix the hosting and server issues. I think there isn't much we can do aside from waiting for Starserver to be done since that should eliminate a lot of issues as well as possibly make a thread in the SCII section about Jangbi and co moving to SOSPA so that if they developed any fans from SCII, maybe those fans will watch SSL/SRT and decide to try BW. Aside from those two things, not much else you can do I'm afraid.
On September 04 2013 04:09 traceurling wrote: What if brood war got new fancy graphics? The next generation seems to love those...Do you thi k that could help maybe not with a comeback but a definite increase in interest, popularity, and sponsorship of BW?
Frankly, graphics are like the 30th biggest problem with BW, in terms of getting people into it. It doesn't work on modern OSes without some dedicated hackery, hosting games requires admin access to your router and a bit more hackery, the bnet 1.0 interface is utter garbage by modern standards (I know it's popular to hate on Bnet 2, and for good reason, but BW lives in a glass house in this regard). And while people complain about the lack of community in bnet 2, every time I open ICCUP I'm greeted by a million spanish viagra ads in the default channel (and getting a game against another guy as bad as I am? Hah. And no one will play with you if you play random).
Anyway, BW HD isn't happening, and even if it did, the BW community wouldn't actually accept it because there'd almost certainly be subtle differences between engines even if Blizz was actually trying to emulate all of BW's arcane wackiness.
No, if BW wants to get more new people involved, and I think it's a real possibility, we as a community need to do the heavy lifting. I've always thought of the SC2 fanbase as BW fans waiting to happen, and that's more true now than ever. But we need to capitalize. We need community figures, a new version of Day9 to bring back the dailies, more "fun" tournaments, etc etc etc.
I really do think we can get a semi-sizable foreign BW scene going again, if we only try.
umm I've installed BW on XP, windows vista and windows 7, no issues running it so I'm not sure where you're having problems there.
I'm referring to the infamous color issue. I can fix it by killing Windows Explorer in task manager, but it's a common complaint.
Hosting games is definitely an issue but with fish or the new Starserver, it should be less of a problem.
How so? I'm not familiar with Fish or Starserver. What does it do differently from ICCUP?
Bnet 1.0 interface feels more alive than Bnet 2.0 but ya, doesn't hold up as well to some of today's interface. With iccup, you can host a game, you can play games for hours on end and get players easily but I see your point.
I couldn't host games until switching ISPs (and now my antihack won't work!), and it used to take me 15-20 minutes to find a game
Aside from those two things, not much else you can do I'm afraid.
I think there is. I think the BW community should be providing more content on its own. Tutorials, for one! Most BW tutorials/guides I've seen have been either the instruction manual or subtle BW > SC2 arguments. I'd love a series of video tutorials on basic builds, hotkey setups, etc etc etc.
This is probably the most useful BW tutorial I've ever seen, and it's an SC2 tutorial on basic mechanics. We should have BW versions of things like this.
On September 04 2013 04:09 traceurling wrote: What if brood war got new fancy graphics? The next generation seems to love those...Do you thi k that could help maybe not with a comeback but a definite increase in interest, popularity, and sponsorship of BW?
Frankly, graphics are like the 30th biggest problem with BW, in terms of getting people into it. It doesn't work on modern OSes without some dedicated hackery, hosting games requires admin access to your router and a bit more hackery, the bnet 1.0 interface is utter garbage by modern standards (I know it's popular to hate on Bnet 2, and for good reason, but BW lives in a glass house in this regard). And while people complain about the lack of community in bnet 2, every time I open ICCUP I'm greeted by a million spanish viagra ads in the default channel (and getting a game against another guy as bad as I am? Hah. And no one will play with you if you play random).
Anyway, BW HD isn't happening, and even if it did, the BW community wouldn't actually accept it because there'd almost certainly be subtle differences between engines even if Blizz was actually trying to emulate all of BW's arcane wackiness.
No, if BW wants to get more new people involved, and I think it's a real possibility, we as a community need to do the heavy lifting. I've always thought of the SC2 fanbase as BW fans waiting to happen, and that's more true now than ever. But we need to capitalize. We need community figures, a new version of Day9 to bring back the dailies, more "fun" tournaments, etc etc etc.
I really do think we can get a semi-sizable foreign BW scene going again, if we only try.
umm I've installed BW on XP, windows vista and windows 7, no issues running it so I'm not sure where you're having problems there.
I'm referring to the infamous color issue. I can fix it by killing Windows Explorer in task manager, but it's a common complaint. I've never had color issues in a game, only in the MP screen before. It's not that bad if you consider how long ago the game was released. There is also a reg file that can help with the issue. I know that it fixed it for me and it's as easy as double clicking a file and agree to the changes.
Hosting games is definitely an issue but with fish or the new Starserver, it should be less of a problem.
How so? I'm not familiar with Fish or Starserver. What does it do differently from ICCUP? Starserver is supposed to have auto matchmaking and auto port forwarding to eliminate those issues. With iccup, developer aren't interested in trying to fix some of its issues as they have said in the past. Fish, can't say much on it but I don't recall anyone mentioning having issues hosting on fish due to latency.
Bnet 1.0 interface feels more alive than Bnet 2.0 but ya, doesn't hold up as well to some of today's interface. With iccup, you can host a game, you can play games for hours on end and get players easily but I see your point.
I couldn't host games until switching ISPs (and now my antihack won't work!), and it used to take me 15-20 minutes to find a game I can get a game in under a minute at times lol. Maybe I'm just getting luck but most of the players are from EU etc... so I don't think it's timing. Port forwarding is quite easy to do as long as you have access to the router although I have heard cases of it not working and don't know why.
Aside from those two things, not much else you can do I'm afraid.
I think there is. I think the BW community should be providing more content on its own. Tutorials, for one! Most BW tutorials/guides I've seen have been either the instruction manual or subtle BW > SC2 arguments. I'd love a series of video tutorials on basic builds, hotkey setups, etc etc etc.
This is probably the most useful BW tutorial I've ever seen, and it's an SC2 tutorial on basic mechanics. We should have BW versions of things like this.
Well, Bisudagger is talking about protoss strategies so there are tutorials, but probably not as frequent as SCII ones. That and I'm sure if you did for the past, you'll find a lot of tutorials made by Day[9] himself.
Maybe instead of tutorials and scaring away everyone with how difficult this game is, we should emphasize the fact that it can still be a ton of fun even if you're a forever D noob who just likes to push some of those buttons every once in a while.
There are several ways of promoting that mindset and hopefully gaining some newcomers, which may not always grow to be the new stars of the community but can still be valuable in many other ways. The (iccup) attack is one of the best ways. Maybe someone can come up with other ideas? Would it be worth trying to seduce some well known SC2 community figures to take part in this?
On September 04 2013 14:39 Stratos wrote: Maybe instead of tutorials and scaring away everyone with how difficult this game is, we should emphasize the fact that it can still be a ton of fun even if you're a forever D noob who just likes to push some of those buttons every once in a while.
There are several ways of promoting that mindset and hopefully gaining some newcomers, which may not always grow to be the new stars of the community but can still be valuable in many other ways. The (iccup) attack is one of the best ways. Maybe someone can come up with other ideas? Would it be worth trying to seduce some well known SC2 community figures to take part in this?
honestly, I don't think the game is that difficult. I mean yes, 12 unit control groups, no smart casting, no MBS etc... all add to the mechanical requirements and you'll need a lot of practice to be able to keep up with a lot of stuff but even as a D noob, you can still just put your camera location or put a rax on a control group then just double click that to go to it and make units from all the buildings nearby etc... It doesn't feel that bizzare. I guess what I'm saying is that despite having to do a bit more work with BW compared to SCII for ex, the ability to play at even a D/D- level has been blown way out of proportion in terms of the difficulty level required. In other words, if a new player from SCII started playing BW, it'll take them probably 20-30 games or so to get used to clicking the control group or using the camera to make units from their production structures.
In terms of what to do. I think that we as a community should first of all, find other players not on TL that play BW and at minimum, notify them of these forums. Where do we find these people? Maybe friends or friends of friends? Maybe you played on iccup with their player so you can always ask him if he knows TL and then mention what it is if he doesn't. Aside from that, we should try to draw in players from BW in terms of losing players that they were following like Jangbi for instance. Making a post in SCII saying that he started streaming on afreeca with a link and time might be a good idea(dunno if its fine with mods though but I can try it).
We need to promote Starserver once it comes out, big time. Maybe a hype video that detailed it's features. It'll be one of the best ways to get SCII players trying BW since they don't have to deal with forwarding ports or finding players. Aside from that, I think something like iccup attack could help. I dunno if seducing well known SCII community figures will help though. If they are involved heavily in SCII, doubt they'll play BW just to help the community regardless of their background.
On September 04 2013 15:29 BigFan wrote: In terms of what to do. I think that we as a community should first of all, find other players not on TL that play BW and at minimum, notify them of these forums. Where do we find these people? Maybe friends or friends of friends? Maybe you played on iccup with their player so you can always ask him if he knows TL and then mention what it is if he doesn't.
To play devil's advocate, isn't that what TL / ICCup was/is? The last bastion of people still playing BW outside of South Korea?
I mean, I never heard of TL until the SC2 Beta, so I know there are people playing BW who don't know about TL (I played an SC - not even BW - lan once after work 5 years ago when someone brought in the CD, none of those knew abou TL).
But I'm a little skeptical that there's a huge untapped audience waiting to revive the scene.
Also:
On September 04 2013 05:28 rauk wrote: the biggest draw of bw for most casuals were UMS. casuals are never going to play 1v1 seriously or even regularly, and let's face it, casuals make up your player base. you're never going to get them back because bw has to compete with AAA standalone UMS like dota and lol
I saw a survey once of what people at PC Bangs were doing when playing BW, and 1v1 was not near the top of that list (it was mostly UMS's).
Not trying to be doom and gloom, sounds like there's still plenty of community support for keeping competitive BW around for a long while, both for players and viewers. I just don't know how much more growth there is to be expected.
On September 04 2013 15:29 BigFan wrote: In terms of what to do. I think that we as a community should first of all, find other players not on TL that play BW and at minimum, notify them of these forums. Where do we find these people? Maybe friends or friends of friends? Maybe you played on iccup with their player so you can always ask him if he knows TL and then mention what it is if he doesn't.
To play devil's advocate, isn't that what TL / ICCup was/is? The last bastion of people still playing BW outside of South Korea?
I mean, I never heard of TL until the SC2 Beta, so I know there are people playing BW who don't know about TL (I played an SC - not even BW - lan once after work 5 years ago when someone brought in the CD, none of those knew abou TL).
But I'm a little skeptical that there's a huge untapped audience waiting to revive the scene. well, it is for the most part but like in your case, some players on iccup have never heard of TL. Personally, I heard about TL from another forum I was on and joined a bit later on. This was also during the inception of SCII so I wasn't here during the prime time of BW, only to its end. Yes, that's my point. Some people don't know about TL. We should try and get everyone on a forum, TL in this case. They'll always be people scattered around who play BW and don't know TL but at least we can get the majority. Don't know about the size of the audience either. I just think even 10 more people on TL is 10 more people to possibly watch SOSPA and help the scene grow. Maybe we'll get more people from those 10 people, you never know
On September 04 2013 05:28 rauk wrote: the biggest draw of bw for most casuals were UMS. casuals are never going to play 1v1 seriously or even regularly, and let's face it, casuals make up your player base. you're never going to get them back because bw has to compete with AAA standalone UMS like dota and lol
I saw a survey once of what people at PC Bangs were doing when playing BW, and 1v1 was not near the top of that list (it was mostly UMS's).
Not trying to be doom and gloom, sounds like there's still plenty of community support for keeping competitive BW around for a long while, both for players and viewers. I just don't know how much more growth there is to be expected.
I'm sure UMS is at the top of all surveys but those same players also realize how difficult it is to pull off some of the stuff pros do which is why they might be interested in watching. Really, the best way to grow back the BW scene is to spread the word about it. Whether it's creating hype videos(some TL members are amazing at this), mentioning it to your friends and family, holding fun tourneys/team games/UMS games etc... basically, get as many community BW members involved and new blood will see the excitement, the emotions etc... and will want to try the game.
i play exclusively ums and i am a big bw n00b. but i still find the pro matches much much better than anything sc2 has produced. you don't have to play iccup to appreciate a bw game played at the highest level.