I mean... seriously? My best and, probably, actual rank is D+. I seldom or never join games, but host my own ones, which are named smth like 1:1 d d+. I wanna play with people of my skill. With people, who aren't drastically better or worse than me. That's what the ladder system is for, isn't it? Ranks should reflect one's skill. But for god only knows what reason people don't like this idea. Guys with best ranks of C-, C+, or even B (yes, B) /clearstats or smurf instead, and join games, which are inviting d d+ players. The result is that you may play at your best and still lose 95% of games, simply becuz they are just — just better. Firstly, this will affect your rank — it simply won't reflect your real skill. But what's more important — losing so bad is very, I say VERY discouraging. Not only that, but these smurfing guys also tend to show their disrespect towards you, calling you, I quote: "you lol; easy points; noob (ofc); etc.". Not without GG'ing offensively. Probably becuz of that I stopped playing ladder games in the middle of the last season (didn't help. Why join a MELEE game to play vs an inferior guy?). But that's alright. What I do want to know is what my real skill is. Like, 3, or more, times I was blamed in smurfing and that my real rank is "at least C-", though I never managed to get any higher than like 2300 pts. What if I really can hit C-? Just need to play with EQUAL opponents in order to get to know that. The question is: how to find them? Should I name my games smth like "1:1 ur best is d+"? Or is this too complicated? I do want to play ladder this season. Just want to know, what I am.
iCCup season was just reset, so don't expect to have any games that are going to be of equal skill level when season just restarts, just don't get upset and keep pressing on, that is all you can do. Welcome to Brood War.
Welcome to the horrors of non-MMR match systems. There is no automated matchmaking and no system that can analyze your win percentages and nothing to punish smurfing, hence you end up in the dilemma you are now.
On the plus side, you are by far not the only person who deals with this, and despite the discouraging results and games you may encounter, you should remain confident in your pursuit of improvement, using the opportunity to play against players quite a bit better in order to truly understand mechanical or strategic skills you can still learn.
Ladder ranks are a fairly worthless indicator of skill as between low quantity of games and map of the week bonuses your rank may not be related to your current skill level in the slightest. If you ladder about 100 games you should be removing statistical anomalies though, thus coming fairly close to your "real rank". The problem is, even if you find your "real" rank, there is no possibility to consistently get games against people of that skill range on ladder, so you need to find practice partners that are very close to your skill range or slightly better if possible.
As for being blamed for being too good, most people don't want to admit they lost to a "lower" ranked player or whatever, so they'll say you're smurfing or w/e if they are bad. There is no such thing as an equal opponent, unless your games result in draws frequently. If you are worried about smurfs that much you can take the time to check the person who joins your game on iccup.com and see what their past seasons ladder stats were, then ban anyone whose account has no previous stats/overranked etc before you start.
i think iccup is just getting harder and harder overtime
since you can host, doing "1:1 d+ max" should be good. there are still plenty of (high) d+ and rusty low c- players floating around to make it worthwhile for 1v1 play. the c- guys of course are lying when they join but they vary in how long ago they played
iccup is extremely difficult to find any games for anyone above C rank unless you want to play with the same people over and over. Normally, I play on iccup as a warm-up for a game or two before I move on to fish. I do not condone smurfing, but I understand just how annoying it is to wait for 20 minutes unable to find a game at one's skill level. If you just want to play a game, it's much quicker to find an opponent if you just make a new account.
Of course, I do not condone lying about one's skill level, or any bad manner at all. So anyone smurfing and making fun of someone who isn't as good as oneself is definitely deplorable.
I think if all those people were not smurfing, viz. kept their ranks as they are, there would be more C guys. Much more, since I used to check those who join my games on iccup.com, and really so many of them have C-, C or higher as their best ranks. Thanks for all those replies, btw
I do want to play ladder this season. Just want to know, what I am.
This isn't helpful when trying to answer without trying to sound really offending. The topic name is "how to ladder" and you say you don't want to.
Nevermind. Let's see the (surprisingly good) first answer I had in mind when seeing this:
On March 02 2015 05:05 GGzerG wrote: iCCup season was just reset, so don't expect to have any games that are going to be of equal skill level when season just restarts, just don't get upset and keep pressing on, that is all you can do. Welcome to Brood War.
This is a very valid point. It'll stay like this for 7 - 14 days, depending on your "actual" skill level.
On March 02 2015 05:07 DarkNetHunter wrote: downsized to the most important point:
As for being blamed for being too good, most people don't want to admit they lost to a "lower" ranked player or whatever, so they'll say you're smurfing or w/e if they are bad. There is no such thing as an equal opponent, unless your games result in draws frequently.
Which brings me back to the point I made at first: I do not really understand what you want to learn here. The ladder is there to train. You're saying right now it isn't, because you face tons of better players. Read DarkNetHunter's post in full length to understand why this will never be the case - not that I do not understand the bitterness, I loathed mass laddering to improve myself.
You're not D+ if your max is 2300. You're D+ if you constantly shift in between 2800 and 3200 points. Yes, bearing a low C- is not a C-. Holding it is the key, while not permanently expanding the search range of points downwards, but upwards. Any player with "enough" games can be C-. See: MOTW Bonus, etc. No ranking out there would help with a low user base to overcome this barrier. Being bitch slapped by morons, who're themselves in the D+ range (~3200 points as high) is just few players playing. Otherwise it wouldn't be THIS bad. Sadly, you can't ban these idiots.
On March 02 2015 04:54 GreenWillow wrote: Should I name my games smth like "1:1 ur best is d+"? Or is this too complicated?
Again, not sure what the goal is.
If you want to train to improve, suck it up and face these trolls again and again and again, until you have your break through. Train your mindset, see it as something you can overcome, you just need to find out how. This is, because they resemble the next class of players you have to beat in oder to rank up.
If you want games, which challenge you just "in the right amount" (meaning in your opinion) ladder is never good. You'll never face what you want, or if you do, it'll be only about 5% of the time. Always. It's either the wrong race, terrible map, laggy, or some idiots trying to cheese, all-in, not matching the style you feel like playing. That's ladder for you - 50% of people trying to get more points - either to get to their real rank faster, or to show off, some more because they like it (which is legit after all, as there is no "real" Brood War), ...
Hence, what you want is some guys who are a) not jerks and b) make games interesting. To dodge idiot trolls, either ask them in the chat for games and host then (because you can easily select x-0 monsters and bashers), or try to join a group of beginners. Get in touch with people after games you liked and make real use of your friends list. Play these people. Not anyone else. If you network, you get enough training partners. Less stress, more fun.
You play against people who are the same current rank as you, not max rank. Everyone has to play against better players. If you only played against someone who was the exact same skill level as you, you'd get B- for free regardless of your skill, because you gain more points for a win than you lose for a loss. Anyone who reaches C- does it while playing against better players too... that's what it means to actually be that rank. I think you should just try to get better, and not worry about losing, because that's how the ladder works for everyone.
Sorry, it was really late when I read it and it came across stupidly. My fault entirely. Doesn't change what I meant, you probably have two options:
1) Suck it up and play these trolls. Learn how to defeat them, rank up, get better overall. Easier said than done, especially without someone helping you to focus on the right things.
2) Try to build up a circle of training partners and train with them in addition to regularly playing complete strangers. Wouldn't completely let go of the idea of laddering, but not as main point of focus.
I agree with Sero. Of course after a ladder reset, the proportion of better players is higher because they haven't moved to higher ranks yet, but you will indeed have to play better players in order to reach you real rank.
I can relate to that from the "B" perspective. It's super annoying to look for a game for longer than 10 minutes. Switching to Fish is not possible with current rules (I don't play enough games to live up to the rules), hence I tend to play vs lower ranks or just play few games on 2nd account (that would be in D to C- range).
If you only played against someone who was the exact same skill level as you, you'd get B- for free
Well ye, may be. Though I stated that I don't mind playing with people who aren't THAT better than me. I think it should work smth like this: Once u become too good for D ranks, u advance to D+ level. But there is a difference between fresh D+ (who constantly drops back to D due to big % of losses vs D+ guys) and "steady" D+ (this guy never loses his actual rank). Once newly-built D+ stops losing his rank constantly, he becomes a steady D+ and then eventually advances to C- level, where he again begins to lose much more than win. Possibly, my explanation is as stupid as my vision of the matter, I don't deny it.
And no, I by no means am gonna play
these trolls
Whenever I get to know that I lost to a C guy again, I feel that he just stole my points, which is very upsetting. They simply don't deserve these victories. Once again, I'm not against losing as a part of getting better. I am against losing without a tiny chance to win and being mocked after it.
On March 02 2015 21:40 kogeT wrote: I can relate to that from the "B" perspective. It's super annoying to look for a game for longer than 10 minutes. Switching to Fish is not possible with current rules (I don't play enough games to live up to the rules), hence I tend to play vs lower ranks or just play few games on 2nd account (that would be in D to C- range).
On March 02 2015 21:40 kogeT wrote: I can relate to that from the "B" perspective. It's super annoying to look for a game for longer than 10 minutes. Switching to Fish is not possible with current rules (I don't play enough games to live up to the rules), hence I tend to play vs lower ranks or just play few games on 2nd account (that would be in D to C- range).
What are the rules of fish?
you need 48 hours online and 30 melee wins to play. However, the trick is that you lose melee wins if you lose a ladder game so if you go below 30 you will need to play more melee. I got 100 melee wins on my account just for good measure lol