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I used to play BW in the past but only 3v3 fastest map possible and the campaign. I know the game. I also play StarCraft II HotS and currently I'm in master league (Patch master thanks to the new ladder this season). I went to play some brood war 1v1 to see how it was and what I missed back there.
Currently I'm struggling a lot in D and D- Everyone's APM is over 180-200 and they all execute perfect builds. I don't know any builds and trying to improvise.
My main issue in TvZ is the muta control, they are very very hard to deal with. My main issue in TvP is holding the dragoon early push and super late game when he start getting all bases in the map and start recalling and stasis cell me.
I don't find anyone to play TvT at all with. Barely played like 2-3 TvT in D and D- and always getting rekted hard.
If anyone willing to provide any kind of help, I really appreciate it.
P.S. I'd like to update the title but it seems I cannot?
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Here is a link with some of my latest replays: http://www.megafileupload.com/1G03/Replays.rar
@IntoTheheart
I tried but I couldn't find clear builds like I do when searching for StarCraft II builds or explanation on them the same way.
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Everyone's APM is over 180-200 and they all execute perfect builds.
definitely not true. Many of us can beat a d- with one hand
I watched the "tvz push fails and loses to muta ling" game. You suicided your army into sunkens and lost after that. What did you expect? Don't suicide them. You didn't even add bunkers or additional turrets after losing your entire army.
And his build was far from perfect that game.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/335184-day-bw-dailies Watching Day9 will help. You need to watch more to get an idea of how it's played and the difference in strengths of the units compared to SC2 (1 turret isn't enough to defend vs mutas)
If you're just starting I suggest playing P or Z as bio terran v Z is very hard. good luck
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United States9652 Posts
just because you were masters in sc2, doesnt really mean that skill will transfer over as much as you think.
look for builds. if you say they dont work, then you're doing something wrong. builds that get you to about 30-40 supply usually always work unless your opponent is cheesing you and you need to adapt or halt your build order. just learn the simple mechanics and practice a single build order.
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On June 13 2015 04:48 JieXian wrote:definitely not true. Many of us can beat a d- with one hand I watched the "tvz push fails and loses to muta ling" game. You suicided your army into sunkens and lost after that. What did you expect? Don't suicide them. You didn't even add bunkers or additional turrets after losing your entire army. And his build was far from perfect that game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/335184-day-bw-dailiesWatching Day9 will help. You need to watch more to get an idea of how it's played and the difference in strengths of the units compared to SC2 (1 turret isn't enough to defend vs mutas) If you're just starting I suggest playing P or Z as bio terran v Z is very hard. good luck
Thank you for the Day9 info, I'll check them and see what I can do better. I'm starting the 1v1 and it seems I have a very very long way to get out of D-.
Also I'd appreciate it if you can check the other replays and provide a summarize feedback on them later.
On June 13 2015 05:19 FlaShFTW wrote: just because you were masters in sc2, doesnt really mean that skill will transfer over as much as you think.
look for builds. if you say they dont work, then you're doing something wrong. builds that get you to about 30-40 supply usually always work unless your opponent is cheesing you and you need to adapt or halt your build order. just learn the simple mechanics and practice a single build order.
I never said that because I'm "Master" or "Patch Master" in SC2 I have to be A+ in BW. But currently I'm struggling in what D- which is comparable to Bottom of Bronze League in SC2. As someone who have general idea about BW and doing very well in SC2, I shouldn't be struggling that bad in D-. That is all I said.
Beside I never said that the builds does not work. I said they are not clear as SC2 builds and not much resources I can find. I tried to search for some BW mechanic tutorial and tricks like the moving shot and casting spells fast from each caster but not finding much. I'd appreciate it if you give me some resources I can make use of.
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On June 13 2015 05:25 WrathSCII wrote: I never said that because I'm "Master" or "Patch Master" in SC2 I have to be A+ in BW. But currently I'm struggling in what D- which is comparable to Bottom of Bronze League in SC2. As someone who have general idea about BW and doing very well in SC2, I shouldn't be struggling that bad in D-. That is all I said.
Beside I never said that the builds does not work. I said they are not clear as SC2 builds and not much resources I can find. I tried to search for some BW mechanic tutorial and tricks like the moving shot and casting spells fast from each caster but not finding much. I'd appreciate it if you give me some resources I can make use of.
Actually people have said that D is about Diamond. For comparison, back when I was high D-/low D, I was in High Platinum (ie top of the platinum group and can beat low diamonds sometimes), so don't feel bad about yourself. D- is definitely not bronze, there's even an E level. D- should be around gold because I got into gold without knowing anything about SC2 (not even playing the campaign) back then.
Most people that are still playing BW have been playing or watching it for a long time. If you've watched the replay I'm sure you can see that bronze players can't play like this.
I can't help you much with your other replays because they are TvP ones. I play Z and P but I racepick to avoid PvT.
Besides, at this current stage, after watching enough Day9 and if you're really a good SC2 player you should be able to find out the mistakes by yourself, because based on the TvZ game your problems should be are very fundamental.
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On June 13 2015 05:25 WrathSCII wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 04:48 JieXian wrote:Everyone's APM is over 180-200 and they all execute perfect builds.
definitely not true. Many of us can beat a d- with one hand I watched the "tvz push fails and loses to muta ling" game. You suicided your army into sunkens and lost after that. What did you expect? Don't suicide them. You didn't even add bunkers or additional turrets after losing your entire army. And his build was far from perfect that game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/335184-day-bw-dailiesWatching Day9 will help. You need to watch more to get an idea of how it's played and the difference in strengths of the units compared to SC2 (1 turret isn't enough to defend vs mutas) If you're just starting I suggest playing P or Z as bio terran v Z is very hard. good luck Thank you for the Day9 info, I'll check them and see what I can do better. I'm starting the 1v1 and it seems I have a very very long way to get out of D-. Also I'd appreciate it if you can check the other replays and provide a summarize feedback on them later. Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 05:19 FlaShFTW wrote: just because you were masters in sc2, doesnt really mean that skill will transfer over as much as you think.
look for builds. if you say they dont work, then you're doing something wrong. builds that get you to about 30-40 supply usually always work unless your opponent is cheesing you and you need to adapt or halt your build order. just learn the simple mechanics and practice a single build order. I never said that because I'm "Master" or "Patch Master" in SC2 I have to be A+ in BW. But currently I'm struggling in what D- which is comparable to Bottom of Bronze League in SC2. As someone who have general idea about BW and doing very well in SC2, I shouldn't be struggling that bad in D-. That is all I said. Beside I never said that the builds does not work. I said they are not clear as SC2 builds and not much resources I can find. I tried to search for some BW mechanic tutorial and tricks like the moving shot and casting spells fast from each caster but not finding much. I'd appreciate it if you give me some resources I can make use of. I watched a good chunk of your replays and your biggest issues are lacking a basic build order and decent building placement. For example in almost every TvP, you built your factory in such a location that you had to lift it to build the machine shop. You seem to want to play macro style so either learn the standard Fake Double or Siege Expand (see Liquipedia). That vulture expand you are doing is pretty hard to play well and versus Protosses with more than 130 apm you will have much more trouble. I don't know how TvP plays in SC2, but in BW if you expand faster than Protoss you better turtle hardcore with sieged tanks behind zealot tight walls and turret rings. You often lost a lot of stuff while taking your 3rd and in general expanded way too fast without any scouting info. A lot of troubles will disappear with using a more standard opening. Regarding the late game push, you have to pay more attention to it. Your replay "dafaq do i do in tvp" is a prime example of what happens when you a-move your maxed army in a TvP.
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On June 13 2015 05:25 WrathSCII wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 04:48 JieXian wrote:Everyone's APM is over 180-200 and they all execute perfect builds.
definitely not true. Many of us can beat a d- with one hand I watched the "tvz push fails and loses to muta ling" game. You suicided your army into sunkens and lost after that. What did you expect? Don't suicide them. You didn't even add bunkers or additional turrets after losing your entire army. And his build was far from perfect that game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/335184-day-bw-dailiesWatching Day9 will help. You need to watch more to get an idea of how it's played and the difference in strengths of the units compared to SC2 (1 turret isn't enough to defend vs mutas) If you're just starting I suggest playing P or Z as bio terran v Z is very hard. good luck Thank you for the Day9 info, I'll check them and see what I can do better. I'm starting the 1v1 and it seems I have a very very long way to get out of D-. Also I'd appreciate it if you can check the other replays and provide a summarize feedback on them later. Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 05:19 FlaShFTW wrote: just because you were masters in sc2, doesnt really mean that skill will transfer over as much as you think.
look for builds. if you say they dont work, then you're doing something wrong. builds that get you to about 30-40 supply usually always work unless your opponent is cheesing you and you need to adapt or halt your build order. just learn the simple mechanics and practice a single build order. I never said that because I'm "Master" or "Patch Master" in SC2 I have to be A+ in BW. But currently I'm struggling in what D- which is comparable to Bottom of Bronze League in SC2. As someone who have general idea about BW and doing very well in SC2, I shouldn't be struggling that bad in D-. That is all I said. Beside I never said that the builds does not work. I said they are not clear as SC2 builds and not much resources I can find. I tried to search for some BW mechanic tutorial and tricks like the moving shot and casting spells fast from each caster but not finding much. I'd appreciate it if you give me some resources I can make use of. lol. this is cute bw is mechanically wayyyy harder than sc2 so dont be sad youre losing. as people have said already, D in bw is no where near as bad as bronze in sc2
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On June 13 2015 17:27 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 05:25 WrathSCII wrote: I never said that because I'm "Master" or "Patch Master" in SC2 I have to be A+ in BW. But currently I'm struggling in what D- which is comparable to Bottom of Bronze League in SC2. As someone who have general idea about BW and doing very well in SC2, I shouldn't be struggling that bad in D-. That is all I said.
Beside I never said that the builds does not work. I said they are not clear as SC2 builds and not much resources I can find. I tried to search for some BW mechanic tutorial and tricks like the moving shot and casting spells fast from each caster but not finding much. I'd appreciate it if you give me some resources I can make use of. Actually people have said that D is about Diamond. For comparison, back when I was high D-/low D, I was in High Platinum (ie top of the platinum group and can beat low diamonds sometimes), so don't feel bad about yourself. D- is definitely not bronze, there's even an E level. D- should be around gold because I got into gold without knowing anything about SC2 (not even playing the campaign) back then. Most people that are still playing BW have been playing or watching it for a long time. If you've watched the replay I'm sure you can see that bronze players can't play like this. I can't help you much with your other replays because they are TvP ones. I play Z and P but I racepick to avoid PvT. Besides, at this current stage, after watching enough Day9 and if you're really a good SC2 player you should be able to find out the mistakes by yourself, because based on the TvZ game your problems should be are very fundamental.
I will second this response. It's pretty much what I wanted to say, but JieXian said it more succinctly. I'd say I'm right on the edge of breaking into D (I keep fluctuating). I can get to the late game pretty consistently now, but I still usually lose. I sincerely doubt Bronze players have enough knowledge/skill/mechanics to progress through the stages of a game (early-->mid-->late). As JieXian said, we're playing against YEARS of experience. It will take time to catch up.
I started with reading about openers and general game flow of match-ups on liquipedia. Then I played a few games and realized my mechanics were nowhere near good enough. So I played a lot of vComp games for the sole purpose of practicing macro mechanics and establish muscle memory. I played some more, watched the replays, and looked at what the other players did to find I what I should be doing. From that point, I'd try to play games out as best as I could, and every time I hit a stage in the game where I would always lose, I'd look up vods of that match-up and focus on that point in the match, or I'd ask friends (who range from D to C). There's no substitute for playing and watching replays.
I'll try to take some time to watch a few of your vP replays and tell you what I see.
On June 13 2015 18:22 Cryoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2015 05:25 WrathSCII wrote:On June 13 2015 04:48 JieXian wrote:Everyone's APM is over 180-200 and they all execute perfect builds.
definitely not true. Many of us can beat a d- with one hand I watched the "tvz push fails and loses to muta ling" game. You suicided your army into sunkens and lost after that. What did you expect? Don't suicide them. You didn't even add bunkers or additional turrets after losing your entire army. And his build was far from perfect that game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/335184-day-bw-dailiesWatching Day9 will help. You need to watch more to get an idea of how it's played and the difference in strengths of the units compared to SC2 (1 turret isn't enough to defend vs mutas) If you're just starting I suggest playing P or Z as bio terran v Z is very hard. good luck Thank you for the Day9 info, I'll check them and see what I can do better. I'm starting the 1v1 and it seems I have a very very long way to get out of D-. Also I'd appreciate it if you can check the other replays and provide a summarize feedback on them later. On June 13 2015 05:19 FlaShFTW wrote: just because you were masters in sc2, doesnt really mean that skill will transfer over as much as you think.
look for builds. if you say they dont work, then you're doing something wrong. builds that get you to about 30-40 supply usually always work unless your opponent is cheesing you and you need to adapt or halt your build order. just learn the simple mechanics and practice a single build order. I never said that because I'm "Master" or "Patch Master" in SC2 I have to be A+ in BW. But currently I'm struggling in what D- which is comparable to Bottom of Bronze League in SC2. As someone who have general idea about BW and doing very well in SC2, I shouldn't be struggling that bad in D-. That is all I said. Beside I never said that the builds does not work. I said they are not clear as SC2 builds and not much resources I can find. I tried to search for some BW mechanic tutorial and tricks like the moving shot and casting spells fast from each caster but not finding much. I'd appreciate it if you give me some resources I can make use of. I watched a good chunk of your replays and your biggest issues are lacking a basic build order and decent building placement. For example in almost every TvP, you built your factory in such a location that you had to lift it to build the machine shop. You seem to want to play macro style so either learn the standard Fake Double or Siege Expand (see Liquipedia). That vulture expand you are doing is pretty hard to play well and versus Protosses with more than 130 apm you will have much more trouble. I don't know how TvP plays in SC2, but in BW if you expand faster than Protoss you better turtle hardcore with sieged tanks behind zealot tight walls and turret rings. You often lost a lot of stuff while taking your 3rd and in general expanded way too fast without any scouting info. A lot of troubles will disappear with using a more standard opening. Regarding the late game push, you have to pay more attention to it. Your replay "dafaq do i do in tvp" is a prime example of what happens when you a-move your maxed army in a TvP.
TvP in SC2 is opposite from TvP in BW in a lot of ways. In SC2, the Terran needs to be at least a base ahead of the Protoss, the Terran army is the more mobile army, and the Terran's "job" is to harrass and pick apart the Protoss before the Protoss can build up a big army and push across the map. If the Protoss is positioned properly, the Terran can't engage directly without taking heavy loses. This is all opposite of BW TvP. So based on what Cyroc has said, seems like you're still playing SC2 TvP. You need to flip that.
Overall for TvP, the vulture is your mainstay. For those early dragoon pushes, mines help a lot. In my experience, you should have mines researched a fair amount of time before the Protoss starts producing observers. Therefore, the Protoss can't just march across the map. In the mid to late game, I feel like vultures are essentially free. I've learned that if the Protoss has 0 to 2 cannons only (with no unit support) around the mineral line of any particular base, the Terran can just throw 4 to 5 vultures at a time at it to destroy all the probes. Just keep throwing vultures. More vultures, more vultures, c'mon~ more vultures. No more probes? OK, stop vultures. That will all but stop the Protoss macro. Now push out across the map with your blob of tanks and vultures, and hit the Protoss very hard. The Protoss won't have a big enough army to engage yours directly, and also won't be able to replace their army quickly enough as it is inevitably picked apart. You get ladder points and the Protoss gets a 50 DKP minus.
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Ver's guide is horrible for beginners in my opinion. He has tons of good ideas, but he also cherishes the Koreans way too much. He overcomplicates some issues, doesn't adress the typical beginner mistakes (e.g. mechanics), and then lists a ton of Builds without much of an explanation, while talking a lot of biased anti-foreigner lingo. You basically only read: love Korea, try to copy Koreans, then you will be good. Yeah well, that won't help him much, especially as the Build Order compendium looks to be outdated (it's from five or six years ago).
I don't mean that as offense towards you, or towards Ver. I just wanted to give the OP some hope, in between all this subtile elitism about SCII rankings around here. BW can be learned rather easily, if you take a step back and just look at the builds. Judging from Cryoc's post the OP can achieve the most by training his first ten minutes for now. The rest will come automatically. Only once he can really perform well enough in the first ten-fifteen minutes, he should have a peek at Ver's Build list.
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I would play TvT all the time.So if you see me,just ask me,i love TvT.My Name here is the same as on iccup.
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Thank you everyone for your support and sorry I could not reply earlier
@Mr. Bean. I'm looking forward to that. My IGN on ICCUP is "WrathSCII".
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Sorry for the dirty bump. But I'm back again... With another help cry...
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=56630 I got obliterated here in D (Yes yes still in D...).
I do kinda a free style but I died in late game.
Is this guy really a D class? How could I improve my macro? How do I deal with annoying gas steal on 4 player map... I don't know what to ask just want help!!!
and sorry for bumping this thread again T_T...
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Wrath i don't think repdepot works anymore. All replays are 0 bytes. Maybe try uploading to the iccup replay section?
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On October 14 2015 10:37 f10eqq wrote: Wrath i don't think repdepot works anymore. All replays are 0 bytes. Maybe try uploading to the iccup replay section? Which can be found here (log in with your ICCUP account on the website to activate it).
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