I think, by using Artosis logic, wouldn't every map at the time be Terran favored? And if Terrans really are supreme right now, wouldn't that mean every map should be Terran favored in a TvZ? But as I pointed that out, it's simply not the case.
Fighting Spirit Imbalance: Fact or Fiction?
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FlaShFTW
United States9607 Posts
I think, by using Artosis logic, wouldn't every map at the time be Terran favored? And if Terrans really are supreme right now, wouldn't that mean every map should be Terran favored in a TvZ? But as I pointed that out, it's simply not the case. | ||
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On July 29 2015 00:21 FlaShFTW wrote: Mech switches were beginning to take rise in the late KeSPA era. But late game turtle with mass tanks was always in the meta (see the FlaSh vs Calm gif) Yes but was it done almost every game and so early like in post-kespa? I think an analysis is needed, though it'll take a lot of effort. | ||
amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
ahaha, incontrol's posts are funny to read | ||
bITt.mAN
Switzerland3683 Posts
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On July 30 2015 02:40 bITt.mAN wrote: About that giant FS screenshot wallpaper, I bumped the original thread, but it doesn't show up cuz it's in blogs (and I suspect most people don't browse blogs through the sub-forum menu), so, can anyone deliver, please? link I'll deliver give me a few days to dig up the original! (I'm still welcoming recommendations for good hosts for truly HD pictures like this, I'm afraid imgur still wouldn't take it verbatim) Great write-up, and thanks for the image attribution! It was quite a surprise to see it on the frontpage after all these years. | ||
prech
United States2948 Posts
On July 30 2015 06:04 538 wrote: I'll deliver give me a few days to dig up the original! (I'm still welcoming recommendations for good hosts for truly HD pictures like this, I'm afraid imgur still wouldn't take it verbatim) Great write-up, and thanks for the image attribution! It was quite a surprise to see it on the frontpage after all these years. Not sure if there's an even higher resolution version, but here's the 4096px one on Mega http://bit.ly/FightingSpirit4k | ||
ghrur
United States3785 Posts
Also, does TL have historical ELO? Like, can I get the ELOs of JD and Flash before they played their game on FS in the Bigfile MSL final? | ||
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On July 30 2015 11:11 prech wrote: Not sure if there's an even higher resolution version, but here's the 4096px one on Mega http://bit.ly/FightingSpirit4k I think 4096x4096 is the highest you can get for a map that size, right? I mean, FS is 128x128 matrix, and each matrix is 32x32 pixels. IIRC. So 128x32 = 4096 pixels... 4096x4096 should capture every pixel. If it's higher-rez than that, it got up-sampled or Photoshopped something? | ||
FlaShFTW
United States9607 Posts
On July 31 2015 10:06 ghrur wrote: Does anybody know how the ELO system for SC:BW worked? For example, if Flash had a TvZ Elo of 2350 and Zero had a ZvT Elo of 2261, what's the estimated probability that Flash beats Hero? Is it based on Normal distribution? Logistic distribution? Also, does TL have historical ELO? Like, can I get the ELOs of JD and Flash before they played their game on FS in the Bigfile MSL final? if you get the date of the series, you could click on the past elo ranking and find the date/month that you want. then just update it to the next day after the finals was played and you'll have the updated elo rank i think? I'm not entirely sure. Also nice to know this thread has been highjacked by Fighting Spirit artwork. I find nothing wrong with that ^^ Carry on. No but seriously that art is beautiful I want a poster of it in my room. | ||
Wintex
Norway16827 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1386 Posts
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lestye
United States4092 Posts
I personally feel that Terran players attract the most hardest working and passionate pro players, and that's why there's such a skew in the Post-Kespa era. | ||
B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On August 01 2015 03:02 lestye wrote: Awesome article. It feels weird when we talk about such intricate balance things because there's just so many reasons why it can get skewed. I personally feel that Terran players attract the most hardest working and passionate pro players, and that's why there's such a skew in the Post-Kespa era. What the hell man.. That's such an insult to other dedicated pro-gamers, I can't even believe it. | ||
bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
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[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On August 01 2015 12:35 B-royal wrote: What the hell man.. That's such an insult to other dedicated pro-gamers, I can't even believe it. +1. I mean, even limiting it to just post-Kespa era, what... Bisu doesn't work hard? Hero doesn't work hard? They and all the other pro P and Z players aren't 'passionate'? wtf? | ||
prech
United States2948 Posts
On July 31 2015 10:06 ghrur wrote: Does anybody know how the ELO system for SC:BW worked? For example, if Flash had a TvZ Elo of 2350 and Zero had a ZvT Elo of 2261, what's the estimated probability that Flash beats Hero? Is it based on Normal distribution? Logistic distribution? Also, does TL have historical ELO? Like, can I get the ELOs of JD and Flash before they played their game on FS in the Bigfile MSL final? There's some good info on the TL Elo rating on Liquipedia. Basically, as far as I understand it, it's not weighted or has any statistical adjustment done on it. Players earn and lose Elo points based on the strength of his/her opponent (who similarly gains and loses the same amount of points), so there's no weighting done by strength of competition or how "major" a tournament is... There are some reference threads listed on the page, one of which discusses a little bit of Elo inflation over time, as there are basically more Elo points to go around as more higher caliber players emerged as the progamer scene developed. As for Flash and ZerO, they have a ~90 point difference-- A player whose rating is 100 points greater than his/her opponent's rating is expected to win 64% of the time. Alas, the historical Elo isn't spit out/visible on TLPD, but the data's there for calculations at any time. There are and have been plans to enable this historical view, much like Aligulac has done with SC2, as BW has such a rich history of ~15 years of progaming that can be analysed... | ||
lestye
United States4092 Posts
On August 01 2015 16:29 [[Starlight]] wrote: +1. I mean, even limiting it to just post-Kespa era, what... Bisu doesn't work hard? Hero doesn't work hard? They and all the other pro P and Z players aren't 'passionate'? wtf? I guess my joke didnt come off right, I was just pretending to be a Terran above all else guy :-P | ||
outscar
2787 Posts
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AleXoundOS
Georgia456 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On August 01 2015 17:03 prech wrote: Not only that, but theres more points to go around as there was a gradual inflation in the amount of games played every year. You can find a top pro from 2000 who played like, eight games the whole year. There's some good info on the TL Elo rating on Liquipedia. Basically, as far as I understand it, it's not weighted or has any statistical adjustment done on it. Players earn and lose Elo points based on the strength of his/her opponent (who similarly gains and loses the same amount of points), so there's no weighting done by strength of competition or how "major" a tournament is... There are some reference threads listed on the page, one of which discusses a little bit of Elo inflation over time, as there are basically more Elo points to go around as more higher caliber players emerged as the progamer scene developed. As for Flash and ZerO, they have a ~90 point difference-- Alas, the historical Elo isn't spit out/visible on TLPD, but the data's there for calculations at any time. There are and have been plans to enable this historical view, much like Aligulac has done with SC2, as BW has such a rich history of ~15 years of progaming that can be analysed... | ||
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