On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote:
LOL we've been exposed!
I'm truly D-Qualified.
Such reaver trauma.
LOL we've been exposed!
I'm truly D-Qualified.
Such reaver trauma.
The worst will come soon
Haven't submitted it yet
The traitor zealots T_T
Forum Index > BW General |
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T | ||
LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
On November 25 2015 04:06 Jealous wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T Nice thought! Im Bulgarian and I only know a few words in Russian which is a shame... I will get to them all eventually. Just dont you ever send me one ending like that... I mean you only live once! ; D | ||
LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. Wait I am confused? You played Jealous? | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 04:45 ProllTarodies wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:06 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T Nice thought! Im Bulgarian and I only know a few words in Russian which is a shame... I will get to them all eventually. Just dont you ever send me one ending like that... I mean you only live once! ; D Oh ok, you said "privet" at the start so I thought you were Russian. Either way, keep up the good work This must be good English training for you! By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) On November 25 2015 04:46 ProllTarodies wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. Wait I am confused? You played Jealous? We played a long time ago, the replay has been sent to you via PM! | ||
LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:45 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 25 2015 04:06 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T Nice thought! Im Bulgarian and I only know a few words in Russian which is a shame... I will get to them all eventually. Just dont you ever send me one ending like that... I mean you only live once! ; D Oh ok, you said "privet" at the start so I thought you were Russian. Either way, keep up the good work This must be good English training for you! By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) I said privet just for you and your fellow countrymen! Its usually 2 zealots and 2 templars... And I missed that you stormed your own templar ; D And I am pretty sure they DO take splash damage. But ONLY splash damage and not the normal damage. BUT there was nothing to be splashed about... I will in fact check this right now Im curious if Im right... | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 04:52 ProllTarodies wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 04:45 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 25 2015 04:06 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T Nice thought! Im Bulgarian and I only know a few words in Russian which is a shame... I will get to them all eventually. Just dont you ever send me one ending like that... I mean you only live once! ; D Oh ok, you said "privet" at the start so I thought you were Russian. Either way, keep up the good work This must be good English training for you! By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) I said privet just for you and your fellow countrymen! Its usually 2 zealots and 2 templars... And I missed that you stormed your own templar ; D And I am pretty sure they DO take splash damage. But ONLY splash damage and not the normal damage. BUT there was nothing to be splashed about... I will in fact check this right now Im curious if Im right... Let me know if you find out which one of us is right, but I think it's me xaxa. By the way, the ability Dark Archons use is Maelstrom, you were right. | ||
LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
On November 25 2015 05:02 Jealous wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:52 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 04:45 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 25 2015 04:06 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T Nice thought! Im Bulgarian and I only know a few words in Russian which is a shame... I will get to them all eventually. Just dont you ever send me one ending like that... I mean you only live once! ; D Oh ok, you said "privet" at the start so I thought you were Russian. Either way, keep up the good work This must be good English training for you! By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) I said privet just for you and your fellow countrymen! Its usually 2 zealots and 2 templars... And I missed that you stormed your own templar ; D And I am pretty sure they DO take splash damage. But ONLY splash damage and not the normal damage. BUT there was nothing to be splashed about... I will in fact check this right now Im curious if Im right... Let me know if you find out which one of us is right, but I think it's me xaxa. By the way, the ability Dark Archons use is Maelstrom, you were right. You are right! DS IMBA ; D I will totally burrow damaged hydras to save them from death under dark swarm! | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 05:07 ProllTarodies wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 05:02 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 04:52 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 04:45 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 25 2015 04:06 Jealous wrote: On November 25 2015 02:43 Trozz wrote: On November 24 2015 19:05 ProllTarodies wrote: On November 24 2015 11:27 Jealous wrote: On November 24 2015 10:52 Trozz wrote: This series is hype. Nothing but the finest games. Keep up the awesome. On Fighting Spirit We had an epic battle I might submit it Your game is done and I hate you and your opponent! ; D LOL we've been exposed! I'm truly D-Qualified. Such reaver trauma. The worst will come soon Haven't submitted it yet The traitor zealots T_T Nice thought! Im Bulgarian and I only know a few words in Russian which is a shame... I will get to them all eventually. Just dont you ever send me one ending like that... I mean you only live once! ; D Oh ok, you said "privet" at the start so I thought you were Russian. Either way, keep up the good work This must be good English training for you! By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) I said privet just for you and your fellow countrymen! Its usually 2 zealots and 2 templars... And I missed that you stormed your own templar ; D And I am pretty sure they DO take splash damage. But ONLY splash damage and not the normal damage. BUT there was nothing to be splashed about... I will in fact check this right now Im curious if Im right... Let me know if you find out which one of us is right, but I think it's me xaxa. By the way, the ability Dark Archons use is Maelstrom, you were right. You are right! DS IMBA ; D I will totally burrow damaged hydras to save them from death under dark swarm! Or you can morph them into lurkers and cancel once the threat has passed | ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) lo and behold: burrowed units CAN take splash damage, at least from siege-tanks, under Dark Swarm.... [I only talk about the siege-tank-splash, thanks Jealous for your corrections] That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or because you saw that some burrowed units survived under swarm in games that you watched (see below)... or sometimes even people who test it a little by themselves think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take siegetank-splash-damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 06:24 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) Once and for all: burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm.... That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or sometimes even people who test it a little think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that the hit-zone of a unit is reduced quite a bit if it is burrowed (makes sense, think of a burrowed ultralisk), so it's very likely that they're not in the field-of-splash... thus, if you want to keep more of your units under swarm alive against splash-damage it is very effective to burrow them, but it is definitely possible to kill burrowed units under dark swarm with splash. Pretty sure it has to do with the displacement of ranged damage when attacking units under Dark Swarm. Didn't know you could actually hit them, though. Going to test your theory tonight by playing 1v2 computers on hunter PvZT and mind controlling both (should be more fun than making a UMS, which I've done to test stuff before =_=; ). | ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
On November 25 2015 06:38 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:24 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) Once and for all: burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm.... That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or sometimes even people who test it a little think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that the hit-zone of a unit is reduced quite a bit if it is burrowed (makes sense, think of a burrowed ultralisk), so it's very likely that they're not in the field-of-splash... thus, if you want to keep more of your units under swarm alive against splash-damage it is very effective to burrow them, but it is definitely possible to kill burrowed units under dark swarm with splash. Pretty sure it has to do with the displacement of ranged damage when attacking units under Dark Swarm. Didn't know you could actually hit them, though. Going to test your theory tonight by playing 1v2 computers on hunter PvZT and mind controlling both (should be more fun than making a UMS, which I've done to test stuff before =_=; ). You're right, didn't think of that way swarm actually functions, what you said may be true if I think of how strangely the splash seemed to hit/miss burrowed units during my tests. (Then again, it should be correct that a big unit like an ultralisk should have less hit-able surface if it's burrowed.... anyways, DS really is the N.1 source of confusion in discussions about this game because it makes you step from one false assumption or uncertainty into another...) Btw: I repetitively used the fat text because I've stumbled across many people who share the misconception about swarm and was hoping that maybe some of them read it here, not to shout at you or express anger or anything... Also, "show me the money" and "operation cwal" make the testing so much less lenghty ^^ (but also less fun I guess) | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 06:48 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 06:38 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:24 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) Once and for all: burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm.... That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or sometimes even people who test it a little think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that the hit-zone of a unit is reduced quite a bit if it is burrowed (makes sense, think of a burrowed ultralisk), so it's very likely that they're not in the field-of-splash... thus, if you want to keep more of your units under swarm alive against splash-damage it is very effective to burrow them, but it is definitely possible to kill burrowed units under dark swarm with splash. Pretty sure it has to do with the displacement of ranged damage when attacking units under Dark Swarm. Didn't know you could actually hit them, though. Going to test your theory tonight by playing 1v2 computers on hunter PvZT and mind controlling both (should be more fun than making a UMS, which I've done to test stuff before =_=; ). You're right, didn't think of that way swarm actually functions, what you said may be true if I think of how strangely the splash seemed to hit/miss burrowed units during my tests. (Then again, it should be correct that a big unit like an ultralisk should have less hit-able surface if it's burrowed.... anyways, DS really is the N.1 source of confusion in discussions about this game because it makes you step from one false assumption or uncertainty into another...) Btw: I repetitively used the fat text because I've stumbled across many people who share the misconception about swarm and was hoping that maybe some of them read it here, not to shout at you or express anger or anything... Also, "show me the money" and "operation cwal" make the testing so much less lenghty ^^ (but also less fun I guess) Unfortunately, the premise in which you decided to call me (and other people) out on their misinformation was FAULTY! After a decent amount of time spent testing with Siege Tanks and Archons, here are my findings: 1. Dark Swarm displaces ranged attacks about 1 unit towards the origin of the attack. What this means is, if the Siege Tank is shooting at a Lurker from 12 o'clock, the displacement of the blast will be towards 12 o'clock. 2. Lurkers under Dark Swarm can be killed using splash damage if the unit targeted is a unit standing above ground and displaced in the opposite direction of the Siege Tank. Following the example in 1., if you place a Zergling slightly below the Lurker at 6 o'clock, the splash damage will hit squarely on the Lurker. In fact, the closer to perfect you place it, the better; I have at times killed the Lurker before the Zergling! 3. Archons cannot do damage to Lurkers under Dark Swarm. Doesn't work. Not directly, not indirectly using the method above. It just doesn't work. Further testing might be necessary for other scenarios that I may have forgotten. .: QED We were both wrong; Lurkers CAN take splash damage under Swarm from Siege Tanks under very specific (and in my opinion, usually impractical) conditions, but not from Archons. I have the replay if you would like proof but I suggest you test it yourself. | ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
On November 25 2015 08:03 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:48 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 06:38 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:24 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) Once and for all: burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm.... That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or sometimes even people who test it a little think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that the hit-zone of a unit is reduced quite a bit if it is burrowed (makes sense, think of a burrowed ultralisk), so it's very likely that they're not in the field-of-splash... thus, if you want to keep more of your units under swarm alive against splash-damage it is very effective to burrow them, but it is definitely possible to kill burrowed units under dark swarm with splash. Pretty sure it has to do with the displacement of ranged damage when attacking units under Dark Swarm. Didn't know you could actually hit them, though. Going to test your theory tonight by playing 1v2 computers on hunter PvZT and mind controlling both (should be more fun than making a UMS, which I've done to test stuff before =_=; ). You're right, didn't think of that way swarm actually functions, what you said may be true if I think of how strangely the splash seemed to hit/miss burrowed units during my tests. (Then again, it should be correct that a big unit like an ultralisk should have less hit-able surface if it's burrowed.... anyways, DS really is the N.1 source of confusion in discussions about this game because it makes you step from one false assumption or uncertainty into another...) Btw: I repetitively used the fat text because I've stumbled across many people who share the misconception about swarm and was hoping that maybe some of them read it here, not to shout at you or express anger or anything... Also, "show me the money" and "operation cwal" make the testing so much less lenghty ^^ (but also less fun I guess) Unfortunately, the premise in which you decided to call me (and other people) out on their misinformation was FAULTY! After a decent amount of time spent testing with Siege Tanks and Archons, here are my findings: 1. Dark Swarm displaces ranged attacks about 1 unit towards the origin of the attack. What this means is, if the Siege Tank is shooting at a Lurker from 12 o'clock, the displacement of the blast will be towards 12 o'clock. 2. Lurkers under Dark Swarm can be killed using splash damage if the unit targeted is a unit standing above ground and displaced in the opposite direction of the Siege Tank. Following the example in 1., if you place a Zergling slightly below the Lurker at 6 o'clock, the splash damage will hit squarely on the Lurker. In fact, the closer to perfect you place it, the better; I have at times killed the Lurker before the Zergling! 3. Archons cannot do damage to Lurkers under Dark Swarm. Doesn't work. Not directly, not indirectly using the method above. It just doesn't work. Further testing might be necessary for other scenarios that I may have forgotten. .: QED We were both wrong; Lurkers CAN take splash damage under Swarm from Siege Tanks under very specific (and in my opinion, usually impractical) conditions, but not from Archons. I have the replay if you would like proof but I suggest you test it yourself. + Show Spoiler + Also I don't think it "was to be demonstrated" ("QED") that we were both wrong... at least I wouldn't call it classy if that was the interest of your tests [edit: but maybe you meant: your interest when you started writing the post]. I don't say I'm a dmg-under-swarm-expert, I just wanted to share the point I was certain about. I just wanted to make sure that everyone who reads my post gets the point that burrowed units under swarm can take splash damage.But I thought Archons could do it too, even if I didn't mention it, so I won't deny that my (unoutspoken) thoughts were wrong in that regard. In a way we made the same mistake by generalizing the properties of splash-attacks of different units. I play Terran, so I mostly care about the siege-tank... but yes, my advice would have mislead Protoss players. I changed my above posts so they're not misleading any longer. The potential siege-splash to lurkers under swarm is far from being just a funny, neglectable side note... even if only some lurkers get killed by it here and there in a game: every hit can mean game or not sometimes, it's true, effective damage, and over a long period of time we're talking about hundreds and thousands of dead lurkers that might have held ramps or chokes or just stall pushes. One thing concering your 2. point: As far as taking-siege-splash-at-all-under-swarm-when-burrowed is concerned, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter whether the targeted unit is above or under ground... I had all my units under swarm burrowed when I tested it, and some still got killed even though I fired at another burrowed one. So I'm tempted to say that burrow and swarm just don't have anything to do with each other... but maybe I'd lean out too far again so I won't -.- I guess we should take this to PM if you agree and there's more to say. | ||
JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
On November 25 2015 11:22 JieXian wrote: nice casts man! Thanks man! Keepin da dream alive! (the dream is everybody playing BW at least once a week) ; D | ||
LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
On November 25 2015 08:38 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 08:03 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:48 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 06:38 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:24 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) Once and for all: burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm.... That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or sometimes even people who test it a little think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that the hit-zone of a unit is reduced quite a bit if it is burrowed (makes sense, think of a burrowed ultralisk), so it's very likely that they're not in the field-of-splash... thus, if you want to keep more of your units under swarm alive against splash-damage it is very effective to burrow them, but it is definitely possible to kill burrowed units under dark swarm with splash. Pretty sure it has to do with the displacement of ranged damage when attacking units under Dark Swarm. Didn't know you could actually hit them, though. Going to test your theory tonight by playing 1v2 computers on hunter PvZT and mind controlling both (should be more fun than making a UMS, which I've done to test stuff before =_=; ). You're right, didn't think of that way swarm actually functions, what you said may be true if I think of how strangely the splash seemed to hit/miss burrowed units during my tests. (Then again, it should be correct that a big unit like an ultralisk should have less hit-able surface if it's burrowed.... anyways, DS really is the N.1 source of confusion in discussions about this game because it makes you step from one false assumption or uncertainty into another...) Btw: I repetitively used the fat text because I've stumbled across many people who share the misconception about swarm and was hoping that maybe some of them read it here, not to shout at you or express anger or anything... Also, "show me the money" and "operation cwal" make the testing so much less lenghty ^^ (but also less fun I guess) Unfortunately, the premise in which you decided to call me (and other people) out on their misinformation was FAULTY! After a decent amount of time spent testing with Siege Tanks and Archons, here are my findings: 1. Dark Swarm displaces ranged attacks about 1 unit towards the origin of the attack. What this means is, if the Siege Tank is shooting at a Lurker from 12 o'clock, the displacement of the blast will be towards 12 o'clock. 2. Lurkers under Dark Swarm can be killed using splash damage if the unit targeted is a unit standing above ground and displaced in the opposite direction of the Siege Tank. Following the example in 1., if you place a Zergling slightly below the Lurker at 6 o'clock, the splash damage will hit squarely on the Lurker. In fact, the closer to perfect you place it, the better; I have at times killed the Lurker before the Zergling! 3. Archons cannot do damage to Lurkers under Dark Swarm. Doesn't work. Not directly, not indirectly using the method above. It just doesn't work. Further testing might be necessary for other scenarios that I may have forgotten. .: QED We were both wrong; Lurkers CAN take splash damage under Swarm from Siege Tanks under very specific (and in my opinion, usually impractical) conditions, but not from Archons. I have the replay if you would like proof but I suggest you test it yourself. + Show Spoiler + Also I don't think it "was to be demonstrated" ("QED") that we were both wrong... at least I wouldn't call it classy if that was the interest of your tests [edit: but maybe you meant: your interest when you started writing the post]. I don't say I'm a dmg-under-swarm-expert, I just wanted to share the point I was certain about. I just wanted to make sure that everyone who reads my post gets the point that burrowed units under swarm can take splash damage.But I thought Archons could do it too, even if I didn't mention it, so I won't deny that my (unoutspoken) thoughts were wrong in that regard. In a way we made the same mistake by generalizing the properties of splash-attacks of different units. I play Terran, so I mostly care about the siege-tank... but yes, my advice would have mislead Protoss players. I changed my above posts so they're not misleading any longer. The potential siege-splash to lurkers under swarm is far from being just a funny, neglectable side note... even if only some lurkers get killed by it here and there in a game: every hit can mean game or not sometimes, it's true, effective damage, and over a long period of time we're talking about hundreds and thousands of dead lurkers that might have held ramps or chokes or just stall pushes. One thing concering your 2. point: As far as taking-siege-splash-at-all-under-swarm-when-burrowed is concerned, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter whether the targeted unit is above or under ground... I had all my units under swarm burrowed when I tested it, and some still got killed even though I fired at another burrowed one. So I'm tempted to say that burrow and swarm just don't have anything to do with each other... but maybe I'd lean out too far again so I won't -.- I guess we should take this to PM if you agree and there's more to say. HEYOOO! I love this stuff! After so long we can always learn something... I did some testing but not enough. I forgot there might be a miss chance to hit or damage... Also you can use "the gathering" cheat for unlimited energy for swarms and stuff... ; D hmmm maybe I smell A GRUDGE MATCH? BEST OF 9 HIGH vs JEALOUS ? | ||
nanaoei
3358 Posts
pros purposefully pushed close enough to lurkers under swarm to lay waste knowing that only the splash would hit. I appreciate the info about archons and the specifics about the displacement. that's pretty interesting that it works that way. but definitely. definitely, definitely, if you're at the point where you're facing dark swarm as protoss in a game, you are in for some dark times. | ||
Jealous
9974 Posts
On November 25 2015 16:46 ProllTarodies wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 08:38 Highgamer wrote: On November 25 2015 08:03 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:48 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 06:38 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2015 06:24 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On November 25 2015 04:47 Jealous wrote: By the way, shuttle loads with 1 zealot 2 templar so that when you drop the Zealot first, the enemy units like Hydralisk/Cannon target the Zealot instead of the Shuttle, and so that Tank/Sunken/Cannon target Zealot instead of Templar Also, burrowed units cannot take splash damage under Dark Swarm, that is why those 2 Archons died for nothing against Lurkers (the one Lurker that died wasn't under storm!) Once and for all: burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm.... That they cannot take damage is an ineradicable myth that people keep quoting from false sources... or sometimes even people who test it a little think that it's true - but if you test it more thoroughly you realize that burrowed units CAN take splash damage under Dark Swarm. Try it, make a game, mind-control an SCV and a drone, build siegetanks, siege em up and fire at some of the units under swarm, if you keep shuffeling the positions of the burrowed units, they will eventually die to the splash.... From my testing, I figure that the hit-zone of a unit is reduced quite a bit if it is burrowed (makes sense, think of a burrowed ultralisk), so it's very likely that they're not in the field-of-splash... thus, if you want to keep more of your units under swarm alive against splash-damage it is very effective to burrow them, but it is definitely possible to kill burrowed units under dark swarm with splash. Pretty sure it has to do with the displacement of ranged damage when attacking units under Dark Swarm. Didn't know you could actually hit them, though. Going to test your theory tonight by playing 1v2 computers on hunter PvZT and mind controlling both (should be more fun than making a UMS, which I've done to test stuff before =_=; ). You're right, didn't think of that way swarm actually functions, what you said may be true if I think of how strangely the splash seemed to hit/miss burrowed units during my tests. (Then again, it should be correct that a big unit like an ultralisk should have less hit-able surface if it's burrowed.... anyways, DS really is the N.1 source of confusion in discussions about this game because it makes you step from one false assumption or uncertainty into another...) Btw: I repetitively used the fat text because I've stumbled across many people who share the misconception about swarm and was hoping that maybe some of them read it here, not to shout at you or express anger or anything... Also, "show me the money" and "operation cwal" make the testing so much less lenghty ^^ (but also less fun I guess) Unfortunately, the premise in which you decided to call me (and other people) out on their misinformation was FAULTY! After a decent amount of time spent testing with Siege Tanks and Archons, here are my findings: 1. Dark Swarm displaces ranged attacks about 1 unit towards the origin of the attack. What this means is, if the Siege Tank is shooting at a Lurker from 12 o'clock, the displacement of the blast will be towards 12 o'clock. 2. Lurkers under Dark Swarm can be killed using splash damage if the unit targeted is a unit standing above ground and displaced in the opposite direction of the Siege Tank. Following the example in 1., if you place a Zergling slightly below the Lurker at 6 o'clock, the splash damage will hit squarely on the Lurker. In fact, the closer to perfect you place it, the better; I have at times killed the Lurker before the Zergling! 3. Archons cannot do damage to Lurkers under Dark Swarm. Doesn't work. Not directly, not indirectly using the method above. It just doesn't work. Further testing might be necessary for other scenarios that I may have forgotten. .: QED We were both wrong; Lurkers CAN take splash damage under Swarm from Siege Tanks under very specific (and in my opinion, usually impractical) conditions, but not from Archons. I have the replay if you would like proof but I suggest you test it yourself. + Show Spoiler + Also I don't think it "was to be demonstrated" ("QED") that we were both wrong... at least I wouldn't call it classy if that was the interest of your tests [edit: but maybe you meant: your interest when you started writing the post]. I don't say I'm a dmg-under-swarm-expert, I just wanted to share the point I was certain about. I just wanted to make sure that everyone who reads my post gets the point that burrowed units under swarm can take splash damage.But I thought Archons could do it too, even if I didn't mention it, so I won't deny that my (unoutspoken) thoughts were wrong in that regard. In a way we made the same mistake by generalizing the properties of splash-attacks of different units. I play Terran, so I mostly care about the siege-tank... but yes, my advice would have mislead Protoss players. I changed my above posts so they're not misleading any longer. The potential siege-splash to lurkers under swarm is far from being just a funny, neglectable side note... even if only some lurkers get killed by it here and there in a game: every hit can mean game or not sometimes, it's true, effective damage, and over a long period of time we're talking about hundreds and thousands of dead lurkers that might have held ramps or chokes or just stall pushes. One thing concering your 2. point: As far as taking-siege-splash-at-all-under-swarm-when-burrowed is concerned, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter whether the targeted unit is above or under ground... I had all my units under swarm burrowed when I tested it, and some still got killed even though I fired at another burrowed one. So I'm tempted to say that burrow and swarm just don't have anything to do with each other... but maybe I'd lean out too far again so I won't -.- I guess we should take this to PM if you agree and there's more to say. HEYOOO! I love this stuff! After so long we can always learn something... I did some testing but not enough. I forgot there might be a miss chance to hit or damage... Also you can use "the gathering" cheat for unlimited energy for swarms and stuff... ; D hmmm maybe I smell A GRUDGE MATCH? BEST OF 9 HIGH vs JEALOUS ? I'm down! Once he gets Dark Swarm I will make pure Archon and lose ;-; | ||
LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1264 Posts
BEST OF 9 HIGH vs JEALOUS ? [/QUOTE] I'm down! Once he gets Dark Swarm I will make pure Archon and lose ;-/QUOTE] Thats the spirit! ; D | ||
Simberto
Germany11032 Posts
Regarding the casts, i really enjoy them, but it would really be nice if you could reduce the bodily noises (coughing, burping etc..), as i think they are kind of disgusting and the cast would be a lot better if they were not there. And i gotta say that i am a bit freaked out by the various "right eye of girl" wallpapers that can be seen on your desktop. | ||
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