So if it's not that, could it be a lack of innovative strategies? Everyone knows how Bisu did his own PvZ or how many builds Flash invented/popularized. But you don't have to be a newcomer to be innovative, do you?
Why older pro gamers were beaten by younger ones?
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TwiggyWan
France328 Posts
So if it's not that, could it be a lack of innovative strategies? Everyone knows how Bisu did his own PvZ or how many builds Flash invented/popularized. But you don't have to be a newcomer to be innovative, do you? | ||
ArmadA[NaS]
United States346 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4417 Posts
Oov still went on innovating after he quit as player as Fantasy's puppeteer. I think the answer lies in when you get older you generally have to deal with more commitments, which you are distractions/worries that also cost time. Also reaction time becomes slower, which is very, very important in RTS. And the ability to learn new things and memorize things fall off. So you could be innovate all you want, but you'd still take a longer time to perfect your innovate build than a younger guy would. TL;DR: Older pro gamer has a bad reaction time and has fewer time and needs more time to learn something new. Younger pro gamer has a great reaction time and more time and needs fewer time to learn something new. | ||
iFU.pauline
France1386 Posts
On pro scene, age is definitely a factor because of that, I don't think it is related with being slower to react or whatever. I don't see NaDa being slower to react particularly when you watch his 350apm fpvod being so relaxed making it look like he is in slow motion (pretty scary). Though one thing is sure when I watch his games, he is not really implicated. He is leaving so much opening, often he is way too offensive losing a lot of units. This is so not how NaDa was used to play when he was pro, he was everything but sloppy. Now just having fun and making an income. | ||
Jealous
9870 Posts
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BeStFAN
483 Posts
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
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Wray92
22 Posts
The thing is, the atmosphere and the schedules in those team houses were ridiculous. The minimum would be 12 hours of Brood War, six or seven days a week, few to no breaks. Most of them did more than that. You can't do that for five or six years and not get burned out. Even if it's something you love. Also, older progamers had military service hanging over their heads. No matter what they did to maintain their skills, they'd decline a ton in the military and probably never come all the way back. That's a pretty big motivation-killer too. When one of the old-school guys really had something to play for, they could still practice and win--for instance, July when he won the Golden Mouse. | ||
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
But there is nothing that intrinsically makes a 18 yo better than a 30 yo, it's just social parameters. One of the greatest sc2 champions was also one of the oldest aka Nestea. Yes he fell off later but all champions do at some point regardless of age. | ||
ColdLava
Canada1673 Posts
On February 06 2016 12:44 Wray92 wrote: The real answer has nothing to do with being "old." The "older" progamers were only in their late 20s, going on their 30s. There are plenty of pro athletes in the NFL and NBA who play into their 30s, and those sports are much more physically demanding. The thing is, the atmosphere and the schedules in those team houses were ridiculous. The minimum would be 12 hours of Brood War, six or seven days a week, few to no breaks. Most of them did more than that. You can't do that for five or six years and not get burned out. Even if it's something you love. Also, older progamers had military service hanging over their heads. No matter what they did to maintain their skills, they'd decline a ton in the military and probably never come all the way back. That's a pretty big motivation-killer too. When one of the old-school guys really had something to play for, they could still practice and win--for instance, July when he won the Golden Mouse. Bingo. Iloveoov for instance was fairly old for someone who broke into the scene (21 I think), and was a very hard player to beat until he was 24. When Nal_Ra was 25 he was still a very hard player to beat. Players burn out when they have to play a game for 10-12 hours a day just to keep up, and that especially applies to players that are going into their mid 20s. Other things in life become more important by that time in your life. As for the 'reaction time' thing and ability to multitask, I don't think it's drastic enough until you're much older. NHL goalies are often still quite good going into their mid 30s, for instance, and for them their job is all about reaction time. | ||
HewTheTitan
Canada331 Posts
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mca64Launcher_
Poland629 Posts
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Befree
694 Posts
You have to try, and at some point you're just not going to feel that desire to. Think of any of your games you played online when you were younger. You probably felt like they were the most important thing in the universe, and that probably drove you to try really hard. Now if you were playing them today, you'd likely just want to play much more casually. You're likely more intelligent and capable now than you were then. But along with that comes maturity. 13 year old me could probably beat current me in BW, but it's certainly not because of some mental/physical advantage I had back then. BW was just really important to me and I played it every day back then. Being good at it felt important. Now there's a lot more important things in my life. I think BW players retire and move on for their own good and happiness, not because they're forced out due to their age disadvantage. | ||
jimminy_kriket
Canada5465 Posts
When you are older other things start taking some of your time, whether you like it or not. Progamers spend insane amounts of time playing. When you've done that for years and years, things get put into perspective. Yeah you could keep spending every waking hour playing a game, but at that point maybe you've never had a girlfriend. And if you keep it up, you're going to be 30 and have never had a real girlfriend. Or a real skill you can use in the workplace. Or a house. Or a car. The list goes on. | ||
mca64Launcher_
Poland629 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
And the reason old timers can't stay on top after a while is probably just due to statistics. It's very likely that someone will be better than you, given a much larger population of players. As time goes by, more and more players play the game. | ||
Agh
United States822 Posts
On February 06 2016 18:31 jimminy_kriket wrote: I think one of the main things is time spent practicing. Younger players can go incredibly hard grinding out games. To the point where it's unreal. When you are older other things start taking some of your time, whether you like it or not. Progamers spend insane amounts of time playing. This is pretty accurate. Your mechanics and execution don't really jump off a cliff like most people seem to believe. It's just a byproduct of losing that 'insatiable' mindset in regards to playing combined with a shuffling of priorities in your life. | ||
LaStScan
Korea (South)1288 Posts
2) less practice and passion or goals 3) old players' game mechanics and knowledge don't apply or cannot be equal to current game mechanics and knowledge. 4) they are not as hungry as young ones. ex) In the past, 5 factory is standard in TvP. However, everyone gets better and knows how to deal against it. It fell off, and people plays 2 fact triple or 3 fact triple now. 5 factory is no longer useful as before. In another word, they might somewhat have strong mechanics, but their build order/game play knowledge is behind due to the time has flied a lot. Also, they probably won't able to play macro/massive army battle games well as current players. | ||
okum
France5776 Posts
On February 06 2016 12:44 Wray92 wrote: The real answer has nothing to do with being "old." The "older" progamers were only in their late 20s, going on their 30s. There are plenty of pro athletes in the NFL and NBA who play into their 30s, and those sports are much more physically demanding. This really depends on the physical demands of the particular sport. Attributes like reaction time and flexibility peak early in life, while attributes like endurance and coordination peak later. At the olympic level, short distance runners peak in their early 20s while long distance runners peak in their late 20s. Ultramarathon champions are often in their 40s. Gymnasts at the age of 20 are nearing retirement. I don't think there has been enough research into esports and performance to make a call. It's plausible that reaction time plays a significant role, but it's equally plausible that this advantage is offset by experience to a large extent. You also have to factor in the rapidly evolving metagame in some esports. Young players have the advantage that they assimilate the state of the art right away, while older players may have to unlearn their set ways to keep up. That said, I do think the largest factor why progamers drop off is external (motivation, other duties, poor financial and social prospects of staying in esports), but there is surely a physiologically optimal age for playing StarCraft, and my guess is that it's not much higher than 25, and possibly lower. I'd be interested in what the scientific research says 30 years from now, with esports much more established and much more data to go on. | ||
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