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On June 22 2017 03:10 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 03:02 SirKibbleX wrote: Okay, what the shit. I don't claim to be some high and mighty dev, but 18 weeks to do an INSERT statement on a database? Motherfucker, someone here should be able to scrape the existing TLPD and format and copy it into a standard MYSQL database. Hell, I could stand up a mysql DB and format it in a matter of hours, and give you an API to access and operate on it (with documentation!) within days. Hell, I could just set up a quick little wordpress/laravel website to give you a nice shiny front-end even.
Someone explain why this is so hard. umm BD was making a joke lol. He wasn't being serious.
well it seems, that it's in all seriousness too time consuming and too "fragile" ( accidentely messing up is a big deal) to attract new editors. Then what Kibblex is saying has some merit. Why keep it, when it's way easier to port the data and start fresh?
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Johto4736 Posts
On June 22 2017 04:02 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 03:10 BigFan wrote:On June 22 2017 03:02 SirKibbleX wrote: Okay, what the shit. I don't claim to be some high and mighty dev, but 18 weeks to do an INSERT statement on a database? Motherfucker, someone here should be able to scrape the existing TLPD and format and copy it into a standard MYSQL database. Hell, I could stand up a mysql DB and format it in a matter of hours, and give you an API to access and operate on it (with documentation!) within days. Hell, I could just set up a quick little wordpress/laravel website to give you a nice shiny front-end even.
Someone explain why this is so hard. umm BD was making a joke lol. He wasn't being serious. well it seems, that it's in all seriousness too time consuming and too "fragile" ( accidentely messing up is a big deal) to attract new editors. Then what Kibblex is saying has some merit. Why keep it, when it's way easier to port the data and start fresh? because that's just not that easy ^^
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Netherlands4490 Posts
On June 22 2017 02:34 BigFan wrote:Personally, I'd rather TLPD stayed separate from LP. Basically, the way it is now. When I go to TLPD, I'm usually there to just look at game records, find a certain vod etc... I'm not interested in reading background and other details about whatever it is I want to watch. + Show Spoiler [off-topic] +That and I also really don't like how LP recently changed its format. imo, it's worse now than before, sorry guys Very on topic thread title wise. I initially thought OP would be about that and I'd like to echo that statement!
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TLADT24917 Posts
On June 22 2017 07:02 Peeano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 02:34 BigFan wrote:Personally, I'd rather TLPD stayed separate from LP. Basically, the way it is now. When I go to TLPD, I'm usually there to just look at game records, find a certain vod etc... I'm not interested in reading background and other details about whatever it is I want to watch. + Show Spoiler [off-topic] +That and I also really don't like how LP recently changed its format. imo, it's worse now than before, sorry guys Very on topic thread title wise. I initially thought OP would be about that and I'd like to echo that statement! you mean the separation portion?
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Netherlands4490 Posts
On June 22 2017 09:16 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 07:02 Peeano wrote:On June 22 2017 02:34 BigFan wrote:Personally, I'd rather TLPD stayed separate from LP. Basically, the way it is now. When I go to TLPD, I'm usually there to just look at game records, find a certain vod etc... I'm not interested in reading background and other details about whatever it is I want to watch. + Show Spoiler [off-topic] +That and I also really don't like how LP recently changed its format. imo, it's worse now than before, sorry guys Very on topic thread title wise. I initially thought OP would be about that and I'd like to echo that statement! you mean the separation portion? No, I meant the separated portion; the spoilered bit.
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Canada8025 Posts
Liquipedia changed layouts because mobile devices drive a lot of traffic, and having a unified codebase for the wikis cuts down on work when a change needs to be deployed. If you have complaints about it, use the Feedback Thread. Nothing will change if you just make vague disparaging remarks.
Throughout my time on TL, I don't think I've ever heard any TLPD contributors speak positively of it. It's very clear that the system works, but it's archaic and nobody wants to touch the code. If you really want a replacement that isn't the wiki, start one. Aligulac was created despite the existence of TLPD, and gained acceptance because it's basically a modern successor to it. The TLPD API is defunct as far as I know, but there's nothing stopping you from manually scraping match lists.
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TLADT24917 Posts
On June 22 2017 17:02 Peeano wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 09:16 BigFan wrote:On June 22 2017 07:02 Peeano wrote:On June 22 2017 02:34 BigFan wrote:Personally, I'd rather TLPD stayed separate from LP. Basically, the way it is now. When I go to TLPD, I'm usually there to just look at game records, find a certain vod etc... I'm not interested in reading background and other details about whatever it is I want to watch. + Show Spoiler [off-topic] +That and I also really don't like how LP recently changed its format. imo, it's worse now than before, sorry guys Very on topic thread title wise. I initially thought OP would be about that and I'd like to echo that statement! you mean the separation portion? No, I meant the separated portion; the spoilered bit. oh I see, fair enough.
On June 23 2017 00:48 Spazer wrote:Liquipedia changed layouts because mobile devices drive a lot of traffic, and having a unified codebase for the wikis cuts down on work when a change needs to be deployed. If you have complaints about it, use the Feedback Thread. Nothing will change if you just make vague disparaging remarks. Throughout my time on TL, I don't think I've ever heard any TLPD contributors speak positively of it. It's very clear that the system works, but it's archaic and nobody wants to touch the code. If you really want a replacement that isn't the wiki, start one. Aligulac was created despite the existence of TLPD, and gained acceptance because it's basically a modern successor to it. The TLPD API is defunct as far as I know, but there's nothing stopping you from manually scraping match lists. I'm not looking for change which is why I kept my comment quite simple and straight to the point. I don't like the new layout. Either way, I already know the benefits and discussed this with FO so not going to do it a second time.
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I'll just say this. If the database were dumped somewhere, I'd write up a new API for it.
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Magic Woods9326 Posts
On June 23 2017 03:36 ldv wrote: I'll just say this. If the database were dumped somewhere, I'd write up a new API for it.
On June 23 2017 00:48 Spazer wrote: there's nothing stopping you from manually scraping match lists.
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It's really unreasonable to expect people to write a scraper to pull data that can just be dumped. Come on.
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On June 23 2017 05:45 Epoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 03:36 ldv wrote: I'll just say this. If the database were dumped somewhere, I'd write up a new API for it. Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 00:48 Spazer wrote: there's nothing stopping you from manually scraping match lists. Yeah that's never going to happen.
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Canada8025 Posts
Why not? When I wanted forum stats back in 2009, I didn't ask anyone for that data. I went and scraped the threads myself. It's not that hard.
If a dump of TLPD won't happen for technical, time, or motivational reasons, then what other recourse is there? There comes a point when you have to take matters into your own hands if you want something done.
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On June 23 2017 10:58 Spazer wrote: Why not? When I wanted forum stats back in 2009, I didn't ask anyone for that data. I went and scraped the threads myself. It's not that hard.
If a dump of TLPD won't happen for technical, time, or motivational reasons, then what other recourse is there? There comes a point when you have to take matters into your own hands if you want something done.
well, would be satisfying for somebody who is motivated to know what kinda technical, time, or motivational reasons prohibit said Dump of the DB. I'm not a coder and i don't have the faintest idea how long it takes or how complicated it is. External people posting here with a coding background make it sound quite easy. The explanations given by TL Staff and LP editors in this thread have been quite vague so far for someone with my limited understanding of the subject.
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I think it would be cool to shutdown all pre-SCR content and keep it as a reference.
But: Start adding new maps to the TLPD! So many good new maps and no record of them!
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Magic Woods9326 Posts
On June 23 2017 22:29 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 10:58 Spazer wrote: Why not? When I wanted forum stats back in 2009, I didn't ask anyone for that data. I went and scraped the threads myself. It's not that hard.
If a dump of TLPD won't happen for technical, time, or motivational reasons, then what other recourse is there? There comes a point when you have to take matters into your own hands if you want something done. well, would be satisfying for somebody who is motivated to know what kinda technical, time, or motivational reasons prohibit said Dump of the DB. I'm not a coder and i don't have the faintest idea how long it takes or how complicated it is. External people posting here with a coding background make it sound quite easy. The explanations given by TL Staff and LP editors in this thread have been quite vague so far for someone with my limited understanding of the subject. I can't say how the backend or dumping works for TLPD. I don't have any more access to that than you. All I know is that working with adding stuff to TLPD is a nightmare.
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In recent news, there are url to describe players that are directing to TLPD webpage (i.e. when you press on Neeb nickname, you will be directed to TLPD in this news).
If TLPD is not updated anymore, can we standardize the process and link all info page to liquipedia? The information would be much more accurate!
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On June 23 2017 23:19 Epoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 22:29 Cele wrote:On June 23 2017 10:58 Spazer wrote: Why not? When I wanted forum stats back in 2009, I didn't ask anyone for that data. I went and scraped the threads myself. It's not that hard.
If a dump of TLPD won't happen for technical, time, or motivational reasons, then what other recourse is there? There comes a point when you have to take matters into your own hands if you want something done. well, would be satisfying for somebody who is motivated to know what kinda technical, time, or motivational reasons prohibit said Dump of the DB. I'm not a coder and i don't have the faintest idea how long it takes or how complicated it is. External people posting here with a coding background make it sound quite easy. The explanations given by TL Staff and LP editors in this thread have been quite vague so far for someone with my limited understanding of the subject. I can't say how the backend or dumping works for TLPD. I don't have any more access to that than you. All I know is that working with adding stuff to TLPD is a nightmare. dumping the database is literally one command that everybody who ever worked with a database knows. if there's tables you have to exclude, it's a little more complicated, but not more than an hour's work for anyone who knows the database.
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I think one of the reasons a dump is better than scraping - aside from the fact that it seems mind boggling that there's no backup of some sort you could just U/L to S3 or Drive and share, or no one who could start a sqldump in the background -, is that anyone who would like to help out TL would see exactly what data and schemas are going to be needed for any future TLPD-related work. Even if I write a scraper what if it's inconsistent with the expectations of TL devs? Then all the work has been for naught.
Of course at this point this is just a purely rhetorical discussion but I see only difficulties for both sides when approaching this with a scraper of my own type of a solution.
If I'm missing out on something obvious or there's a reason only people with working knowledge are aware of feel free to disregard my comments.
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On June 23 2017 23:09 Alpha-NP- wrote: I think it would be cool to shutdown all pre-SCR content and keep it as a reference.
I second this, maybe we should switch to an Alligulac like system for SC;R release, and keep TLPD as a time capsule since it's such a pain in the ass to deal with.
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Johto4736 Posts
As a matter of fact, Aligulac is open source, so it just needs someone to run it
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