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On November 21 2017 13:11 Essbee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2017 13:06 BigFan wrote:On November 21 2017 11:52 Disregard wrote: If only Soulkey didn't get gimped by ZvZ against a undeserving Hero. Larva and Soulkey sigh... nope, Soulkey lost to a superior opponent, that's all there is to it. Hero deserved to be in the finals and did far better than many anticipated and gave him credit for. Soulkey would've gotten rocked in the finals if he faced Flash as well. His wins last ASL were from a 4 pool on Camelot and beating Flash's SK Terran on Andromeda, not from straight up macro games where Flash went for the notorious mech switch. People need to stop fixating on the ASL results for everything. But if you want to keep going with tournaments, soulkey just beat flash 2-0 in the wegl and also beat flash in a straight up macro game in the ace match of the finals in the team league thing they had a little while ago. Soulkey definitely would have fared much better than hero, no doubt about it. Though, you can say hero is superior in zvz, that's fine because it's probably true.
I don't think Hero is superior in ZvZ though. They are at a similar level. ZvZ is just very volatile. It was a close series between the two and Hero got a BO win in the last game irrc. The rest is true though. Soulkey would have fared much better than hero in the finals. And let it be just because SK's best MU is ZvT while it's hero's worst MU. I still think Flash would have been the favourite but with SK there would have been an upset potential and the games at least would have been more entertaining.
Note: That doesn't mean Hero didn't deserve to be in the finals. He did.
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TLADT24917 Posts
On November 21 2017 13:11 Essbee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2017 13:06 BigFan wrote:On November 21 2017 11:52 Disregard wrote: If only Soulkey didn't get gimped by ZvZ against a undeserving Hero. Larva and Soulkey sigh... nope, Soulkey lost to a superior opponent, that's all there is to it. Hero deserved to be in the finals and did far better than many anticipated and gave him credit for. Soulkey would've gotten rocked in the finals if he faced Flash as well. His wins last ASL were from a 4 pool on Camelot and beating Flash's SK Terran on Andromeda, not from straight up macro games where Flash went for the notorious mech switch. People need to stop fixating on the ASL results for everything. But if you want to keep going with tournaments, soulkey just beat flash 2-0 in the wegl and also beat flash in a straight up macro game in the ace match of the finals in the team league thing they had a little while ago. Soulkey definitely would have fared much better than hero, no doubt about it. Though, you can say hero is superior in zvz, that's fine because it's probably true. ASL results are much more important in my eyes than WEGL and I'm sure there are some out there that agree. ASL is a far more prestigious tournament imo. You probably mean the Afreeca Team Battle and yes, Soulkey won on Circuit Breaker only to lose in ASL3. The point is that hero deserved his spot in the finals and Soulkey's 2-3 loss to Flash last ASL isn't as impressive as it sounds when you consider the games that went down. Of course, I do think Soulkey's ZvT is better than hero but based on how ASL4 finals went, I don't think Soulkey would've went that much further than hero.
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On November 21 2017 13:35 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2017 13:11 Essbee wrote:On November 21 2017 13:06 BigFan wrote:On November 21 2017 11:52 Disregard wrote: If only Soulkey didn't get gimped by ZvZ against a undeserving Hero. Larva and Soulkey sigh... nope, Soulkey lost to a superior opponent, that's all there is to it. Hero deserved to be in the finals and did far better than many anticipated and gave him credit for. Soulkey would've gotten rocked in the finals if he faced Flash as well. His wins last ASL were from a 4 pool on Camelot and beating Flash's SK Terran on Andromeda, not from straight up macro games where Flash went for the notorious mech switch. People need to stop fixating on the ASL results for everything. But if you want to keep going with tournaments, soulkey just beat flash 2-0 in the wegl and also beat flash in a straight up macro game in the ace match of the finals in the team league thing they had a little while ago. Soulkey definitely would have fared much better than hero, no doubt about it. Though, you can say hero is superior in zvz, that's fine because it's probably true. ASL results are much more important in my eyes than WEGL and I'm sure there are some out there that agree. ASL is a far more prestigious tournament imo. You probably mean the Afreeca Team Battle and yes, Soulkey won on Circuit Breaker only to lose in ASL3. The point is that hero deserved his spot in the finals and Soulkey's 2-3 loss to Flash last ASL isn't as impressive as it sounds when you consider the games that went down. Of course, I do think Soulkey's ZvT is better than hero but based on how ASL4 finals went, I don't think Soulkey would've went that much further than hero.
A tournament being more prestigious has no impact on the overall results. But I do in fact agree with you that Soulkey's 2-3 loss wasn't very impressive. But I think Soulkey is much better now in zvt that he was just a few months ago. I watch all of their streams very regularly and there is no doubt in my mind that soulkey, larva and effort would have had a chance vs flash. And between the 3, I would 100% put my money on effort.
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On November 21 2017 11:52 Disregard wrote: If only Soulkey didn't get gimped by ZvZ against a undeserving Hero. Larva and Soulkey sigh...
herO spent over three hours every day on his own perfecting his mutalisk micro-management as well as perfecting his worker split. Whenever he could find them, herO would ask fellow zerg players for advice and practice. He played over two hundred sponsored matches of zerg-versus-zerg over the last six months, which is more so than any other gamer out there, and more than twice the number of sponsored zerg-versus-zerg matches that Soulkey played within the same period of time.
I don't know what more herO could have done to have deserved his victory more. If it is just endless series of zerg-versus-terran matches you wish for, go online, sponsor Flash to play a best-of-five series versus any zerg of your choosing. It would be more productive than slating a player for your petty stance on the matter.
What is even the point of having a competition if people actually deny the results based on their own flawed views on the matter? Shouldn't you just rally people to have a hack talent show in place of ASL if this is your philosophy?
"And for our next act, here is Soulkey with his marvelous terran-versus-zerg abilities seeded directly against Flash, without the need to go through all that pesky competitive integrity non-sense, because who wants to see a proper tournament when you can have people vote for who gets to play Flash in the finals."
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I for one believe in a "ceiling" of a player's ability in a specific match-up be it constrained by their play-style or not, with that in mind Hero certainly isn't on par with Flash especially in his ZvT. You can train all you want but there might be some toss up matches where you win but I believe Soulkey or Larva from watching their streams over time will certainly show better performances either in practice or in tournaments against Flash.
And for entertainment sake, someone needs to stop Flash because as said before these past 2 ASL finals were very underwhelming.
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Larva? show good performance against Flash??? ^ ^
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