In Chinese, the meaning is also contained in the words, so there are many times when the translation is transformed into a different meaning. 중국어는 단어에 또 뜻이 담겨져 있어서 그냥 번역을 하면 다른 뜻으로 변역이 될 때가 많다.
I made a translation. An Chinese Programmer posts. 해당 중국 선수가 계시글에 올린 글을 아주 정확하게 번역하였다.
This is a Chinese pro gamer Legend. who defeated Larva by 3: 0. in recently. Legend.라는 이 사람은 Larva한테 3:0으로 패배한 중국 프로게이머이다.
My second language is Chinese, I felt anger when I saw what this person wrote. 나는 중국어에 대해서 꽤나 배웠고 중국에서 몇년간 생활해 보았으며 능숙하다. 그리고 라는 선수 ,罗贤999 이가 쓴 글을 읽고 분노를 느꼈다. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 원본 사이트/Original site: https://weibo.com/u/2183182844 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is Legend posted it before the game. 경기전에 그가 올린 글이다. ----------------------------------------------------- 罗贤999 12月2日 03:06 来自 iPhone客户端 一群草鸡 等我收割
Legend was uploaded with a photo of another player. 다른 선수들의 사진들도 같이 업로드 하였다.
Larva was also included in this photo. 이중에 Larva선수도 포함되어있었다. ----------------------------------------------------- 罗贤999 -> Chinese Programmer [Legend] up load date: December 2 업로드 날짜: 12월 2일
내용/Contents: 一群草鸡 等我收割 一群草鸡 : A group of grass chicken(google translator) 等我收割 : Wait for my harvest(google translator)
This is a very insulting article for other players. 이것은 다른 선수들을 매우 비하하는 글이다.
The first sentence deprecated other players as an animal called a chicken. 첫 문장은 다른 선수들을 한무리의 닭이라는 동물로 비하했다. But the meaning is a little different. 하지만 뜻은 약간 다르다.
Especially, the word "草 鸡" contains the meanings of insulting the other person 's ability very lowly. 특히 "草鸡"라는 단어는 상대를 초보로 본다는 비하의 뜻이 담겨져있다. It means that it is very tedious and easy to harvest just those players with low skills. 이러한 초보들을 상대로 그냥 곡식을 수확한느 것처럼 '누워서 떡먹기'라는 뜻이 포함되어있는 '收割'를 뒷문장에 썼다. 한국어로 번역하면 살대방이 싱력이 매우 낮으니 예전에 하던데로 그냥 쉽게 밟아죽여서 우승을 하겠다는 자신감과 이러한 초보들을 상대로 모든 실력을 꺼낼 가치도 없다는 것을 표현하는 글이다. Before the game was start, there was no respect for other players. 경기가 시작하기 전부터 다른 선수들에 대한 존경부터 없었던 것이다.
收割 - 收获 When you translate, both mean the harvest. But there is a difference. 收获-It refers to the achievements obtained through effort. 收割-Not being collected through hard work, It means the same as looting. -Legend Used this word. It's a champion and a U-tuber game. Legend was champion, who have enough power, so meaning he do not have to make an effort. 번역을 하면 둘다 수확의 뜻이다. 하지만 차이가 있다. 후자는 노력을 통해서 승리를 얻거나, 노력을 통해서 농사가 잘됐다 의 뜻이다. 하지만 Legend가 쓴 문에는 앞에있는 글을 썼다. 이 글의 뜻은 노력을 통해서 거두어 지는것이 아니라 타인이 노력으로 얻은 수확을 빼앗은 전리품. 본인의 능력이 타인에 비해서 많이 뛰어나므로 짓밟아 버린다는 의미가 포함되어있다.
The first-ranked [Legend] was looking down at the same u-tubers as Larva. 1위를 하던 Larva와 같은 유튜버를 상대로 매유 얕보고 있었다는 것이다. From the beginning, he was too underdeveloped by other players It also included boredom in the game. and he even posted this on sns. 처음부터 경기를 열심히 하겠다는 생각을 하는게 아니라 또 초보들이랑 지루한 경기를 하게 됐다는 것에 대해서 노잼의 표의를 한 것이고 sns에 올렸다는 것이다. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And he[Legend] failed in the game against Larva, who was so depreciate. And because of his pride, He posted anger on sns again. 그리고 그는 그렇게 얕봤던 Larva선수한테 경기에서 실패했다. 그리고 자존심때문에 분노의 글을 또 sns에 올렸다. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 罗贤999 [Legend] 12月4日 13:01 来自 iPhone客户端 过去送个外卖娱乐下怎么遇到这种脑子有病的人.你能从中获得什么乐趣或者为了积累到一些弱智粉丝.开始知道你这个人的时候还认为你的努力获得应有的成绩让我觉得挺励志.现在在我看来简直瞎了眼.游戏里的事哪怕你丢我原子弹我也就笑笑.游戏之外你就是一个小丑的表现.这就是你和冠军选手的差别.垃圾 ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Defeated Larva player. Posted on December 4 at 1:01 PM. Larva선수에 패배한 12월 4일 오후 1시 01분에 올린 글.
Before, sc19980331 was translated by this person, but it was just translated on the outside. But the text used very abominable words very badly. 전에 sc19980331 이사람이 번역했지만 그냥 겉으로만 번역되었다. 하지만 본문은 매우 혐오스러운 단어를 매우 심하게 사용했다.
怎么遇到这种脑子有病的人 -> 脑<-->"脑子"<-->头, "有病" It meaning Larva's Head has a problem. ->Psychosis, Psycho and used special world to say head(It is a word used only in Orient, If you use this word, people will fight with you.) An insulting world. (when you say (脑子有病) in China, The other party will fight with you) <It is a provocative word to make a fight.> 상대방이 정신 장애자, 사이코로 로 본다는 말이다, 머리가 아닌 대가리라는 단어를 사용했다. 이것은 인격적으로 공격하는 글이다. 만약 누군가가모모 연예인의 대가리가 문제있다고 글을 올리는 것과 같은 수준이다.
积累到一些弱智粉丝 -> '弱智' It means recruiting fans with mental disabilities. All the fans on the Larva side by now can have mental disabilities. It is an insult to the fans. The meaning of the text is that Larva's head has a problem. and his fans same as him, they have mental disabilities.And purpose to collect a lot of psychopaths(fans) through this game. 정신 장애있는 팬들을 모집한다는 뜻이다. 즉 현제까지 Larva편에있는 모든 팬들이 다 정신장애라는 뜻도 있다. 팬들에 대한 비하와 모욕이고 또 홍구선수에 대한 비하와 모욕이기도 하다. 본문의 뜻은 홍구선수의 대가리가 문제있으니깐 똑같이 대기라가 이상한 팬들만 잔뜩 모았고 이번 경기를 통해서 또 정신병자들을 잔뜩 모으려는것이 목적이냐고 하는 글이다.
........游戏之外你就是一个小丑的表现.这就是你和冠军选手的差别. -> In the game larva won. But in reality, he is like a clown. I(writer[Legend]) lost as well as the game, but at one time I(writer) was a famous champion. Larva can not become champion as he is an clown. In short, without acknowledging the victory of the Larva player. Larva's ability is just clown to take the fun of people. It means that it is difficult to become a champion. It contains the meaning. Larva is wins. reason is I(writer[Legend]) did not play for a few years, so he did not win. And Larva not played well. because he was not do not qualify for a player. 홍구는 게임내에서는 이겼지만, 게임밖에서는 그냥 광태에 불과하다. 이것은 홍구와 진정한 챔피언과의 차이이다. 결론적으로는 홍구는 게임에서 이겼지만 인성이 쓰레기라 진정한 승자가 아니다 라는뜻. 본인은 비록 패배했지만 그래도 한때는 유명한 챔피언이였고, 홍구는 영원히 자신을 따라올 수 없다 는 뜻도 포함된다.
垃圾 ... Legend saied Larva is just a garbage on the roadside. Damage to others. It is useless at all. 홍구 선수가 인간 쓰레기라는 뜻이다.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Legend was a champion, and posted this on sns. 한때 챔피언이였던 Legend가 sns에 이런 글을 올렸다.
Before the game starts,Legend was a little shy about the skills of other players. There was no respect. 경기 시작 전에는 상대의 실력에 대해서 엄청 얕보고 존경심도 없었다.
Yes, Legend did not have any respect as an player. He have not played for too long. He was so arrogant. He was too relaxed because them was a u-tuber. 선수로서의 자젹이 없었던 것이다.
Legend was defeated by the Larva. And posted this on sns. Larva he just make the show. But Legend refused Larva's apologized. Ignored other players. Defeate. Insulted the Larva, and his fans. But he have approached by some peoples!
In addition, there is this habit in China. Make small things bigger. Add little things, that not happen. Exaggerate. It turns out to be a different story. 그리고 경기에서 패하니 홍구 선수의 우승을 박탈, 영구 참여금지 시키려고 공격적인 글도 썼고 홍구 선수를 따르는 팬들에 대해서도 모욕을 했다. 그는 그냥 악플러 였을 뿐이였다.
At recent ZOTAC match, The Legend failed. This is two post of Legend's(writer) before the game, and After games.
Before the game starts [December 2 / 2017year, 3 pm] Legend wrote "in the He's eyes them was just a tasty chicken" on sns. It was a declaration that He would win very easily.
TL;DR Legend(Lx)'s first post is not aggressive/condescending as you said in the post, but for the second one you're kinda right. Personally I don't think what Larva did should be encouraged, but he did nothing wrong. Legend(Lx)'s second post is definitely unnecessary.
I'm a Chinese, and Mandarin is my mother tongue. I don't know Korean. I'm not a top level BW player, but I've been playing and watching since 2002~2003. One thing I want to correct from your translation: When he said "一群草鸡 等我收割 " (His Weibo (Chinese twitter): https://weibo.com/u/2183182844?is_hot=1) I think "草鸡" was a typo. Nobody says "草鸡" in Chinese. It should be "菜鸡", which is a funny saying of noob. If you know F91 and scboys they say that all the time in their stream. It's not condescending or something. It's just for fun. So in English it's similar to sayings like "I'm gonna crush all you noobs". When you type "草鸡" in Chinese you type c_a_o_j_i, while "菜鸡" is c_a_i_j_i. Letter "I" is right on the left of "O". That's why I guess it's a typo. That post was before the match so he wasn't mad at that time. He was just trying to amuse his fans. For those photos he posted for other players I don't think he meant something like "those players are waiting to be reaped." (though literally he said so in the sentence mentioned above (等我收割)). He just wanted to show the tournament venue, which is not different at all from other social media posts. For the second part: "过去送个外卖娱乐下怎么遇到这种脑子有病的人.你能从中获得什么乐趣或者为了积累到一些弱智粉丝.开始知道你这个人的时候还认为你的努力获得应有的成绩让我觉得挺励志.现在在我看来简直瞎了眼.游戏里的事哪怕你丢我原子弹我也就笑笑.游戏之外你就是一个小丑的表现.这就是你和冠军选手的差别.垃圾 ..." I think your interpretation is kinda correct. He thought that was a show match so he only wanted to play casually, but got trolled. He got mad, and spewed out all his anger.
I think both players are great players. They both have glorious past.
Legend (Lx) and Pj used to be the top 2 players in China and they are the only two Chinese players who played in Proleague. However I agree that they were still not at the same level as most of Korean pros. During stx cups back in 2010 ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/525834-f91-vs-tossgirl-remastered-2010-stx-masters-sh ) he got victory over July, Trap and Innovation (Bogus at the time). I know July was not at his prime and it was not a "serious" tournament like MSL or OSL, but we all know how hard it is for a non-Korean to get a win from a Korean Pro on BW.
I don't know much about Larva. I vaguely remember he used to be on SKT1 as well. During post-Kespa era he practiced super hard. I remember every time I saw those BW recap posts on TL he got crazy number of match played. When Flash vs Bisu was like 10-8 Flash vs Larva was like 30-13 or something. And he got 3rd place in ASL4, which is phenomenal! I was happy for him because his effort finally paid off and nobody could look down upon him anymore. I'm a Terran and a Flash fan since 2007 and I was hoping he could get into the grand final to challenge Flash.
Personally I don't think what Larva did should be encouraged, but he did nothing wrong. Nothing he did was banned in the tournament. I do like his "showmanship", but probably it can be in a better form. I wouldn't mind at all if he were playing with his off hand all the time or the "lay back" style he had in the other game.
I think what Legend said in his second post is definitely wrong. You get trolled by your opponent if you're not at the same level. If he thinks he's retired already and doesn't need to be as good, he shouldn't get mad. If he feels awkward and wants to be as competent, he should practice harder and shouldn't feel insulted either. I wouldn't mind if LeBron blocked me hundreds of times and broke my ankle. I'd try my best to keep up even I knew I could't and I'd still enjoy the process and probably ask for an autograph.
It's my first post on TL during all these years. I hope the community can be friendly. I hope BW outlives me and everyone can find a worthy opponent to play a game or two whenever their hands got itchy. I hope they shake hands afterward and have a drink together.
[QUOTE]On December 08 2017 17:08 MystMir wrote: 菜 鸡 -> It means that other opponent ability is very low.......
等我收集 等我收获 等我收割 this is same, and meaning is a little bit different....
"I think your interpretation is kinda correct. He thought that was a show match so he only wanted to play casually, but got trolled. He got mad, and spewed out all his anger." Yes, he may be anger, But why refused to apologize? He blamed the Larva and insult Larva's fans. Why? Obviously it was a fun game and why did it get so bad?
I was did not know Larva and Legend either.Until the accident happened. Without the second post. I would not have been so angry.
Stop twisting any scratch of words or posting you can get your hands on and twist/ fit into any way that suits to whitewash Larva out of this situation. It will not help but only escalate things to a new level.
No the first post is not of any disrespect. It's really a lighthearted joke taunt that got posted along with photos and he probably didn't spent more than 5 seconds when composing it. The Weibo (Chinese twitter) can function as a personal blog too if the owner wishes so. If one actually scroll down one would find that he also posted other group of photos (and videos) of his daily life and experience, and wrote captions of varying length along with them. And if he was really thinking in the manner like OP claimed he would be showing all that also at the live scene. I thought Luo Xian stated in his interviews that his expections for the event is no 2, am I right? How can one be seeing everybody else as trash noob, especially Larva, when he stated his opinions so clearly at the scene?
You guys, especially the westerners who are from a different culture, seemed to be still not grasping the severity of Larva's actions. I will try to give you guys my personal perspective so that you may relate. I did not watch the event live and tried to find out the results of the event through internet. At first I came across a post mainly with screenshots of nukes, and I didn't thought of it much. The next second I realized that Larva is a zerg so I' confused how the nukes were involved and my mind filled with ??????????. Then I found more detailed information about the event and my jaws just dropped. This is what initially popped into my mind: "Oh my goodness sake, Larva actually did THAT to Luo Xian!" "What the hell is Larva thinking, is he fxxking crazy?" "Did LX murdered Larva's family?" Get it? So no, people don't find this funny at all. People are shocked at the savageness and barbarism. They can't believe this is actually real. It's like as if Larva serving Muslims pork, as if he called African American n-word slave, as if he called Catholic priests pedophile perverts.
If you want to arrange a cheap clown show you need to at least make sure the actors are okay with being a clown. Luo Xian obviously do not expect any of this beforehand. Not only that he have to discover Larva's footplay through group chats! So what really happened there, is that for some petty viewership and exposures you event hosters and Larva put Luo Xian, an old retired Broodwar vetaran, through excessive public humiliation, without any consent or agreement beforehand. The language of Luo Xian's Weibo post is very strong because tremendous insult rained down on top of his head out of nowhere. Remember he end up sitting at the scene paralyzed in shock for half an hour. Those who think it is fine is thinking that is okay to inflict pain and shame onto others just for the gig of some other equally horrendous viewers who find it actually okay is a believer that one's pleasure can be sought from others pain. What he is posting is basically calling out what this whole sick freak show is. Even without his post, the rest of who learned of the event felt the same and are bound to erupt, and things are going to go where it eventually went.
Also I will add that the main point of the problem is not really about nationalism, but about stepping over the line on the social, cultural and most importantly sportsmanship level. If Broodwar is to be called e-sports, then players in the field should behave within the bounds of basic code of sportman conduct. I don't think in other sports/ competitions it is allowed to make suggestive gestures to your opponent, especially one with such a degree. You see, just because you are better the game does not grant you the right to step over the line and do all this. Chinese are not intolerant people and some degree of trolling, bm are of course ok. But Larva dared to use his feet and close his eyes, exhibiting insulting personal gestures AFTER his offracing, nuke drop, drone kill. This is not called typical bm. I personally have never such a degree of bm anywhere before. Thus the perception of Broodwar as a competitive e-sports that have what it potentially takes to match traditional sport are also tainted and this aspect also triggers people. There's WC3, there's SC2, there's LoL, there's Overwatch, there's even PUBG, why can't you guys figure out what is still keeping people associated to Broodwar?
Speaking of nationalism I will add that though maybe for someone else who is unrelated to Broodwar and read everything from SinaSports, NeteaseSports, Shanghai Morning Post etc may generalize it to Korean progamers and even Koreans as a whole. This whole event get a lot more negative publicity on internet media then a lot of you on TL probably believed. It ended up on top 10 on Weibo's hot search topic for quite a while, and that probably explains why Zotac's CN division quickly issued banning statement -- to do damage control. You see the ways things are of the general climate between China and South Korea are not in the best condition for a lot of other reasons and things like this get posted on routine daily news doesn't help. Also there is a lingering notion about Korean progamers that they are skilled as players but garbage as general human beings when it come to the matter of manners and behaviors. Previously a Korean player from LoL scene typed something like "can't win with 4 Chinese on the team" while seen by a lot of people on a stream sparked outroar, had to issue public apology statement and photos of a haircut (as a proof of sincerity to convince people his sincerity). So you guys need to see that Larva's behavior are basically tossing fuel into this big forest fire. If he wanted to create a name for himself he sure did, though I'm not really sure in the nature he desire.
However, within the CN Broodwar community I think we are very specific that this involves Larva only. It's not a big community, since well, Broodwar need some good catching up in popularity with LoL and PUBG, but everybody that is still with Broodwar will be blacklisting him. When matches involves him people will be tuning out. When we want to invite Korean players over for some friendship tournament like a lot that we done in the past, Larva will not be on the list. He not only failed to provide a clear, definitive, public apology statement at the first moment but tried all kinds of excuses and measurements to shift the blame to others. Maybe the ridiculous event hosts should share the blame too, but all this escapist effort is reinforcing the idea that he does not really think he is wrong and thus insincere. He is dead to us and regardless of how you TLers think and how much viewers he gained (in fact the more the worse).
a writer who uses the term "piece of shit" towards a person in her article should not get any attention. Secondly if you check here esports articles all seem to have a negative view on the whole thing. So she seems to be heavily biased for whatever reason. This is not journalism it its blogging on a site that seems journalistic.
On December 08 2017 19:08 xa2652 wrote: /.../ You guys, especially the westerners who are from a different culture, seemed to be still not grasping the severity of Larva's actions. /.../
This is a fair point. I don't think that you can judge this situation fairly without taking the cultural context into account. However...
On December 08 2017 19:08 xa2652 wrote: /.../ It's like as if Larva serving Muslims pork, as if he called African American n-word slave, as if he called Catholic priests pedophile perverts. /.../
Claiming that Larva's behavior is somehow equivalent to calling an "African American n-word slave" is ridiculous. Larva behaving badly is not the same thing as bringing up hundreds of years of systematic oppression inflicted on a specific ethnic group. It's not the same thing as reducing a human being to a replacable commodity. Also, you criticize westerners for not understanding Chinese culture, all the while presenting your argument here in a way that suggests you don't understand the cultural history surrounding slavery.
As for the other two comparisons, people frequently joke about catholic priests in the way you suggest. The resulting outrage is most of the time very tame compared to this incident. (I do remember some italians being rather pissed off when South Park made an episode on this topic, but that was like 10 years ago).
Intentionally serving a muslim pork would be a dick move, certainly. It would spark a lot of outrage, as well. But Larva didn't intentionally offend Lx (assuming you believe his statements on the topic). Unintentionally serving a muslim pork is something that I've witnessed happening twice. In both cases the muslim was disappointed and a bit disgusted, but once the misunderstanding was cleared up there weren't any hard feelings from what I could tell. Of course, 2 personal anecdotes in no way refutes the point you were making, so I suppose that comparison might be decent.
[QUOTE]On December 08 2017 22:06 razorsuKe wrote: [QUOTE]On December 08 2017 16:49 DeathSong wrote: So, i made korean translation at same time. Because i wanted someone who knows Korean to see and improve English translation.
And because of cultural differences Same word, but meaning will be different. It should also be understood that the perfect translation is also difficult in that it can be interpreted in other meanings. like the Legend used 'head' word, 头(head),头部(head), 脑(head),脑袋(head[bad word]),脑子(head[bad word]) ....
Chinese writing is very strange. like verse, Only a few letters, they should be explained in hundreds of letters. Perfect translation,It need to know Culture, customs, online language of an country. That perfect translation is difficult. The reason I suddenly tried to translate, Legend is a famous man.But he wrote to sns used a very hateful expression. Larva admitted the fault. But Legend did not accept it. Legend he called Larva is an garbage, and the fans who followed Larva were called psychotic.
I thought I wasn't going to write a second comment regarding the Larva/Lx situation because I don't like taking part in the follow-up drama to any situation but now I feel like I have to. To me personally this is starting to look like some people are trying to bully Larva and the community into a kind of moral lowground as an act of revenge. They claim that Larva's actions humiliated Lx even though most people didn't find anything about what he did offensive. This to me looks like a small group of people doing whatever they can to shame Larva and anyone who condones or doesn't denounce his actions, pretending that this was a clear-cut black and white situation where Larva did something wrong. However, to my knowledge Larva has already apologized. Whether he needed to or not, I find this very respectable because it means he recognizes that this isn't a black and white situation and he wants to treat Lx with basic respect. Can someone confirm that Larva apologized?
Either way, I'll only say one thing to this because I have better things to do with my life, but I find this important and I want the BW scene to thrive, not split in anger: In my opinion the right course of action is to ignore everyone who goes to the extreme length of stirring up trouble like OP did. The reason is that I think this isn't about sportsmanship anymore, this is about getting revenge by shaming and guilt tripping Larva and everyone who sides with him. This has pettiness written all over it.
People can adress the Larva/Lx situation, they can talk about it, they can discuss it. But this... this is not acceptable in my opinion.
On December 08 2017 19:08 xa2652 wrote: Get it? So no, people don't find this funny at all. People are shocked at the savageness and barbarism. They can't believe this is actually real. It's like as if Larva serving Muslims pork, as if he called African American n-word slave, as if he called Catholic priests pedophile perverts.
LOL
I can definitely feel the cultural difference between China and western nations here. We do feel shame here, but not on this level.
At recent ZOTAC match, The Legend failed. This is two post of Legend's(writer) before the game, and After games.
Before the game starts [December 2 / 2017year, 3 pm] Legend wrote "in the He's eyes them was just a tasty chicken" on sns. It was a declaration that He would win very easily.