|
With the new patch 1.21.0, the map pool for Frontier League has been greatly improved! What will you veto?!
As someone who has only seen these maps in pro games, and never really got to play them, could some veterans provide some insights and thoughts on the recently added maps? Which ones do you folks prefer, why you are vetoing such and such, things to look out for, race advantages, whether a map favors standard play or not, etc. This would be very helpful to many of us who are new to these maps, thank you very much!
The maps added to the map pool are:
Match Point
Longinus
New Jade
Tau Cross
Destination
If you had to give advice to a low ranked/new player, which maps would you suggest they learn first? They kinda look intimidating.
|
That's a map picture of Jade, not Neo Jade.
|
learn first? To be honest, with the exception of - maybe - Longinus and Desitnation these maps are somewhat generic and all of them support the most basic strategies. There's not much you have to adpot to, other than Destination being more narrow and having this min block, or Longinus having shorter rush distances (e.g. 2 gate P vs Z).
|
Match point is one of my favourite maps. I like the way it has, to quote day9, a short rush distance and a long push distance. The 6 and 12 bases are not "given" to any player as the game folds out, also, the fight for control over the upper ground in the middle of the map is just so interesting and fun to play in PvT. my bans are going to be probably tau cross, longinus and fs
|
United Kingdom12010 Posts
I love these maps so much. It means I can finally get rid of FS and maybe CB (but CB less likely).
I've always hated fighting spirit. I looked back over 400+ replays yesterday looking for a certain game and honestly I found less than 50 fighting spirit games.
|
Tau Cross is one of the best maps of all time. It has a 50-50 % win rate in all the matchups at pro level. It may be not noob friendly because of the hard 3rd, but it is a great map. Learn this one!
Longinus is a nice map, i like it a lot. It is simple, but still have some interesting things like the double gayser expansion and the middle highground. I suggest you to spend some time learning the map and then enjoy playing it.
Match Point and Destination are both good maps, but they can be a little bit difficult for noobs. Learning thous maps can give you some new knowlage and skill, but at first 50 games you can have a lot of problems on them.
I do not play New Jade, so i will not comment this map.
|
yeah Tau Cross is one I am very excited for. How come match point is a bit difficult?
I am so happy they removed python. I heard a thousand koreans cry out when I saw it was gone.
|
AMAZING. Nothing else to say.
Although i approve, why did they remove both standard 4 player maps?
I love it.
Edit: Nevermind, FS and CB are still in. Good!
|
The maps themselves are fine, but what mostly made me glad was that FS is out!!
Don't get me wrong, FS is a good map, but it has been played so much it got "boring". A possible analogy is when you fall in love with some music, but then listen to it day after day on repeat until the point you can't stand it anymore.
|
Destination is a map you can't win zvt on, probably one of the most imbalanced zvt maps ever. Equal only to pure island maps. Seems the few years of icc didn't teach anyone anything. It's not a standard map, terran doesn't even have to attack to win a game here. It is very common to lose zvt here vs players that are much much worse.
Boring maps like MP, Longinus (I really can't think of any fun playing Longinus, why would anyone play this map), and also very anti-zerg. Jade ain't anything special too, 15 min of camping to 200/200 and 1a2a.
Python was probably one of the more demanding maps skillwise and also fun, allowing a good range of strategies to be played. These maps do not allow many strategies, and the games are going to get very repetable.
2 player maps aren't a good choice for tournaments and ladder play.
MP is like Blue Storm, all you need to do, is bring tanks under opponent's natural and you don't even have to enter his exp to take it, a very easy close 3rd that means noobs will be in game despite doing poorly early on, dragging the games too long.
Tau Cross is fine, a bit more open, giving more space to actually play, rather than wait on 3 bases till unit limit. Prefered Arcadia and Python, at least they were fine with a good range of possible plays. Nostalgia being gone, so will Desti be gone since no zerg will want to play it.
|
When you say shit like that julia it will trivialize real balance problems lest they ever add bad maps to the map pool. I fear the day they put in something crazy like 815 or Nostalgia for a season. They wouldn't though, right?
|
beautiful maps. Longinus is back! So many fun games and memories with that map!
|
vetoing neo jade and longinus. i have hated longinus from the first day that i started playing
|
no vetos, all maps are fine.
|
|
On December 09 2017 00:09 Bakuryu wrote: no vetos, all maps are fine.
We got the Bakuryu approval boys. all lights are green!
|
desti and match point are two of the best 2 players maps tau cross and longinus are both great and rather unique great for all match ups neo jade I have played little on it but its v good and unique too.. just great map pool
|
I think some of the things to be extra aware of for new players, are at least two things.
1. Longinus and Tau Cross doesn't have ramps up to your main. This might make you more voulnerable early on. Since if shit happens and you need to make some desperate defence, a ramp can be a real life save. However, on these maps, there's no such thing. You're on your own.
2. The backsides of Destination. Tanks, dragoons, lurkers - there's so many things that can attack you from behind. There's also the chance of units glitching through the minerals. F.ex. a zerg getting burrow, putting them all in one spot, unburrowing and suddenly you've got zerlings in your main. I don't know the solutions, though, as I'm crap. But at least it's nice to be mentally prepared.
I really love the maps, looking forward to playing on them! Haven't played on Neo Jade before, though, so should be fun to learn =) Actually unsure if I've played on Match Point. I think I have, but if not it'll be a nice learning experience for that as well!
|
On December 09 2017 02:03 Incomplete..ReV wrote: I think some of the things to be extra aware of for new players, are at least two things.
1. Longinus and Tau Cross doesn't have ramps up to your main. This might make you more voulnerable early on. Since if shit happens and you need to make some desperate defence, a ramp can be a real life save. However, on these maps, there's no such thing. You're on your own.
2. The backsides of Destination. Tanks, dragoons, lurkers - there's so many things that can attack you from behind. There's also the chance of units glitching through the minerals. F.ex. a zerg getting burrow, putting them all in one spot, unburrowing and suddenly you've got zerlings in your main. I don't know the solutions, though, as I'm crap. But at least it's nice to be mentally prepared.
I really love the maps, looking forward to playing on them! Haven't played on Neo Jade before, though, so should be fun to learn =) Actually unsure if I've played on Match Point. I think I have, but if not it'll be a nice learning experience for that as well!
just check with a worker and put a bunker or cannons next to the minerals
it takes time to set the burrow trap up
|
|
United States9655 Posts
i wouldnt veto a single one of these maps. excellent map pool
|
i vetoed/banned fs and cb hahaha, all maps are so good
|
On December 08 2017 22:54 blackmanpl wrote: Destination is a map you can't win zvt on, probably one of the most imbalanced zvt maps ever. Equal only to pure island maps. Seems the few years of icc didn't teach anyone anything. It's not a standard map, terran doesn't even have to attack to win a game here. It is very common to lose zvt here vs players that are much much worse.
Boring maps like MP, Longinus (I really can't think of any fun playing Longinus, why would anyone play this map), and also very anti-zerg. Jade ain't anything special too, 15 min of camping to 200/200 and 1a2a.
Python was probably one of the more demanding maps skillwise and also fun, allowing a good range of strategies to be played. These maps do not allow many strategies, and the games are going to get very repetable.
2 player maps aren't a good choice for tournaments and ladder play.
MP is like Blue Storm, all you need to do, is bring tanks under opponent's natural and you don't even have to enter his exp to take it, a very easy close 3rd that means noobs will be in game despite doing poorly early on, dragging the games too long.
Tau Cross is fine, a bit more open, giving more space to actually play, rather than wait on 3 bases till unit limit. Prefered Arcadia and Python, at least they were fine with a good range of possible plays. Nostalgia being gone, so will Desti be gone since no zerg will want to play it.
Destination Korean Stats: TvZ: 150-137 (52.3%)
Map pool is perfect.
|
Quick question about Destination that hopefully someone can answer.
What's up with the 0 mineral patch at your backdoor main ramp? I played on Destination yesterday and it took an absurd amount of time to clear with a worker. What are the mechanics behind this?
Otherwise digging the map pool - all the maps I find are pretty well designed Would love to see something like Heartbreak Ridge or Blue Storm added to the next pool.
|
On December 09 2017 08:31 Engdrew wrote:Quick question about Destination that hopefully someone can answer. What's up with the 0 mineral patch at your backdoor main ramp? I played on Destination yesterday and it took an absurd amount of time to clear with a worker. What are the mechanics behind this? Otherwise digging the map pool - all the maps I find are pretty well designed Would love to see something like Heartbreak Ridge or Blue Storm added to the next pool.
There are meany 0 mineral blocks stacked. Don't know how many though. Using two or more workers will significantly spee things up
|
It's 20 patches stacked, so it takes 1600 worker frames, or 67.2 worker game seconds, to mine out.
|
On December 09 2017 08:18 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 22:54 blackmanpl wrote: Destination is a map you can't win zvt on, probably one of the most imbalanced zvt maps ever. Equal only to pure island maps. Seems the few years of icc didn't teach anyone anything. It's not a standard map, terran doesn't even have to attack to win a game here. It is very common to lose zvt here vs players that are much much worse.
Boring maps like MP, Longinus (I really can't think of any fun playing Longinus, why would anyone play this map), and also very anti-zerg. Jade ain't anything special too, 15 min of camping to 200/200 and 1a2a.
Python was probably one of the more demanding maps skillwise and also fun, allowing a good range of strategies to be played. These maps do not allow many strategies, and the games are going to get very repetable.
2 player maps aren't a good choice for tournaments and ladder play.
MP is like Blue Storm, all you need to do, is bring tanks under opponent's natural and you don't even have to enter his exp to take it, a very easy close 3rd that means noobs will be in game despite doing poorly early on, dragging the games too long.
Tau Cross is fine, a bit more open, giving more space to actually play, rather than wait on 3 bases till unit limit. Prefered Arcadia and Python, at least they were fine with a good range of possible plays. Nostalgia being gone, so will Desti be gone since no zerg will want to play it. Destination Korean Stats: TvZ: 150-137 (52.3%) Map pool is perfect. Those are stats from years ago, they dont mean much. Destination was a pure mech map because bio was garbage on it, and this was during the era when pure mech wasnt entirely figured out. It is now. Who knows what the balance will be?
|
On December 09 2017 08:31 Engdrew wrote:Quick question about Destination that hopefully someone can answer. What's up with the 0 mineral patch at your backdoor main ramp? I played on Destination yesterday and it took an absurd amount of time to clear with a worker. What are the mechanics behind this? Otherwise digging the map pool - all the maps I find are pretty well designed Would love to see something like Heartbreak Ridge or Blue Storm added to the next pool.
Shhh, don't mention that joke of a map that HBR is...
|
FS is still in the map pool... 6 years of constantly being played on every ladder game isn't enough for you guys?
|
On December 10 2017 00:08 ICanFlyLow wrote: FS is still in the map pool... 6 years of constantly being played on every ladder game isn't enough for you guys? What is your problem? Can't you just veto it? I don't see the point of your post really :D
|
On December 10 2017 00:08 ICanFlyLow wrote: FS is still in the map pool... 6 years of constantly being played on every ladder game isn't enough for you guys?
all the maps are 10 + years old or something its an old game just veto it jeezus
|
I've been a bit busy recently and haven't been able to play much SC:R but after seeing the new map pool, I am very hyped to play!
Tau Cross and Longinus bring back so many good memories and I can't wait to mass game on the ladder on these maps.
|
No i'd honestly rather see it replaced so i can play 6 maps isntead of 5.
|
FS is actually a good map to keep since it's a great standard map that newbies can learn and easily mass since it's so widely played. removing it would hurt new players imo. sorry Icanflylow
|
i dont mind if FS or CB come up more often, but it would be nice that they aren't necessarily always in the map pool no? but, fine for now (so what is going to be the rotation, every 4 months? sounds fine) when i play I hope that the server is now capable of registering games properly with no or rare mistakes -.-
|
On December 10 2017 03:02 Golgotha wrote: FS is actually a good map to keep since it's a great standard map that newbies can learn and easily mass since it's so widely played. removing it would hurt new players imo. sorry Icanflylow This and for people like me who barely have time to play anymore. Having a standard map or two in the pool is great. If you're that bored of it, click the veto button.
|
i don't see why people don't like FS, it's such a great map.. when everyone just played fighting spirit the game quality got so high, so much so that i feel like playing on other maps is actually not as fun. people just don't play as well if it's not FS, so why bother? i mean it's cool if you want to 1v1 your friend for kicks on neo jade, but basing ranking on it?? i hope we get more fun 2 player maps though, like sin chupung ryeong and HBR. match point is definitely a great start.
while we're at it, i wish that i could race pick or at least say that i don't want to play a certain matchup. i'm playing on the ladder because no one on USW ever plays 1:1 unless it's on the ladder, so i would appreciate an unranked mode where i could specifically choose the MU/map. also, i wish i could tell the ladder to wait for a good connection instead of matching me with bad ping people (similar to how dota 2 used to do it)
|
yeah it would just be nice to rotate the standard maps instead of declaring 2 maps all time standards nothing against FS or CB btw I love these two maps, they are good, just others are good too
|
i personally loved FS and CB just hated that every single game ever was them. So now that 100% of games won't be on those 2 im sure it will be fine.
|
I think its a sign of decline, really. Like, games that obsessively only play one or two maps, whos notion of acceptable play shrinks and shrinks and shrinks, its a sign of decline. Conservatism is never good. FS isnt even balanced by modern standards, at least CB is. If you can only play well on a single map, your not any good.
|
On December 10 2017 07:26 Dazed. wrote: If you can only play well on a single map, your not any good. agree with that I think, you are only good if you can play on variety of maps and able to approach unknown/new maps.. if you have a good understanding of the game, you can adapt to a map quite quickly. they twist the playstyles in different ways and develop everybody's game long story short its very healthy and good for the game that the (competitive) environment allows to play on variety of maps including new maps some maps are flawed, or imbalanced, or too simple.. but many many maps are very good, a lot more very good maps can be made
|
On December 10 2017 06:36 ProMeTheus112 wrote:yeah it would just be nice to rotate the standard maps instead of declaring 2 maps all time standards nothing against FS or CB btw I love these two maps, they are good, just others are good too The other maps will still rotate lol.
|
just suggestion.. there are other maps that could fit in standard category, makes room for more/new maps etc
|
|
|
|