Not really an "interview," just the players' general comments.
CJ_Idra:
I'm very confident. Korean Zerg strategies are ahead of foreign Zergs by about 1-2 years, and foreign ZvT also develops very slowly. I think TvZ is my strongest matchup. I predict I will go 6-1 or 5-2; there are a few maps that are very suited to early rushes, very suitable to his [F91’s] style, so I might lose two games. Overall, I’m not very familiar with F91, only time we played was the last WWI where I won against him 2-1. I haven’t found any recent ZvT replays by him.
Now for the maps; I chose Chupung Ryeong, which I’m very confident on. I think TvZ on this maps is very favored towards T. He chose Tau Cross, which surprised me. The map is very balanced, I thought he would choose a Z-favored map. Raid Assault II is a very interesting map, I designed my own strategy for this map, but I don’t know what kind of style Z would play on this map. Other maps are pretty normal, Destination and Medusa, when I practice with Koreans, is Z>T, but that’s usually due to perfect Mutalisk control to cement the advantage. I saw F91’s Mutalisk micro, it’s very good for a foreigner, but can’t compare to Koreans. Andromeda and Colosseum are maps that I like, because I think the maps are T>Z. Of course, you also have to take into consideration personal likes and dislikes into map balance.
Fnatic.F91:
I think the maps this time are pretty good, and not very T-favored. We fought before at Blizzard WWI 2008, I lost 1-2. I know he’s strong, but this doesn’t mean I have no confidence. My desire to win is as high as his. I been practicing raid Assault II recently, because I haven’t played much on that map. After beating Iejnaij last time, I wish to continue playing in Liquibition. I want to thank TL.net and my sponsors Steelseries, Cooler Master, MSI, and Best Poker, and of course my team Fnatic.
Pretty hype for this. Most of the liquibitions are one-sided affairs just on paper, but this one should be good. If nothing else, they'll be entertaining games.
"I'm quite confident. Korean Zergs are lightyears ahead of foreigner Zergs, ZvT moreso than any other matchup in the game, I think. TvZ has always been my best matchup as well. I expect to win 6-1 or 5-2, some of the maps are conducive to tricky cheesy builds which he excels at so I could drop a game or two that way. Beyond his general style I don't know much about his play, don't think I've played him since WWI and haven't seen any recent replays of his ZvT.
As for the maps, obviously I'm comfortable on Chupung as I chose it. I think its a very heavily Terran favored map in general, especially TvZ. His choice, Tau Cross, kind of suprised me. It's generally considered balanced as far as I know, although I've always really liked it TvZ, but I would have expected him to choose something very Zerg favored. Raid Assault will be interesting, I think I have a good build for it but I have no solid idea how an unusual Zerg will play on a very unusual map. The other maps are fairly standard, Desti and Medusa are Z>T when playing with Koreans, but mainly because they are very abusable for Muta micro. From what I've seen F91 doesn't have Muta micro comparable to Koreans, though it is quite good by foreigner standards. I'm probably least comfortable on Andromeda and Colosseum, though they are statistically T>Z, just due to unfounded personal preference."
Statement by F91:
"In my opinion I think the maps for this series are fine for me atleast they're not too Terran favoured. We've played each other in Blizzcon 2008 and I lost 1-2. I know he is a really good Terran player but that doesn't mean I have no confidence against him either. In fact, I'm actually really confident against him since I am not in any ways less motivated than him to prove myself in this series. I've been training in Raid Assault 2 recently because this is probably the only map in the entire series which I've played the least in. Hopefully , I can keep my winning streak for this awesome event. Thanks to TL.net and also my sponsors like Steelseries, Cooler Master, MSI and Best Poker last but not least of course my lovely team Fnatic."
haha its funny how hyped this event tend to be. F91's statement was actually translated from chinese to english by me and then wfbrood translated it back to english and now we have another kind person who gets them translated again to chinese. haha
On February 21 2009 12:45 Ash wrote: haha its funny how hyped this event tend to be. F91's statement was actually translated from chinese to english by me and then wfbrood translated it back to english and now we have another kind person who gets them translated again to chinese. haha
It's pretty retarded to call Idra's comments arrogant. He was never offensive. He just said he thinks he will win and said why. It's going to be pretty sweet seeing what Idra brings after nearly no coverage of him in the last few months.
Honestly I think it will be pretty one sided, Idra is going to demolish F91.
Arrogant /= confident. To me, Idra is confident and is expecting a win out of himself, which everyone should do if they truly want to win. ... GO GREG OWN DIS NUB LOLOLOL GREG FIGHTING LOLL!!!!~
On February 21 2009 12:14 mmdmmd wrote: OMG at Idra. Such arrogance...
It's not arrogance it's confidence. The last time the met Idra won 2-1 and now Idra feels his TvZ is much better. I would be confident myself if I'd be Idra.
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
thats all cool, but I still think F91 got this 5-2. next
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
thats all cool, but I still think F91 got this 5-2. next
Yeah funny :D Do i have to remind u WCG usa? Give the guy a break,he has zero talent.Doesnt matter how much time he spend out there.He'll never be good.
On February 21 2009 20:48 damenmofa wrote: after this interview and the long time in korea i think its safe to say idra failed if he loses this
Its safe to say that you are an idiot. F91 is pretty strong and is a very aggressive, you might call it cheese player. I'm hoping for Greg to take it, but if he loses its no shame because F91 playes 12 hours a day too-_-; He just has worse opponents.
Haha, what's with the hate. It's a lot better than "Ahh hey, yea I've played a bit but I havent improved much, I think I actually prefer washing the players' underwear."
Idra is spicy arrogant in a good way. He has good confidence and will probably try to mind play F91. Though my heart lies with the swarm so I'll be rooting for F91. But I think that Idra will take this.
They are both verry good payers. And F91 plays just great. Remember that he almost beat Stork in a B03 at IEF. He won a game and the other two were verry close. If he were a Koreean he could have become one of the best Zergs around
On February 21 2009 13:50 Myrkskog wrote: It's pretty retarded to call Idra's comments arrogant. He was never offensive. He just said he thinks he will win and said why. It's going to be pretty sweet seeing what Idra brings after nearly no coverage of him in the last few months.
Honestly I think it will be pretty one sided, Idra is going to demolish F91.
First of all, it was mis-translated.
2nd of all, there is no need to use the word "retarded".
On February 21 2009 13:50 Myrkskog wrote: It's pretty retarded to call Idra's comments arrogant. He was never offensive. He just said he thinks he will win and said why. It's going to be pretty sweet seeing what Idra brings after nearly no coverage of him in the last few months.
Honestly I think it will be pretty one sided, Idra is going to demolish F91.
this. you guys whining about 'arrogance' are fucking pansies
On February 21 2009 20:48 damenmofa wrote: after this interview and the long time in korea i think its safe to say idra failed if he loses this
Its safe to say that you are an idiot. F91 is pretty strong and is a very aggressive, you might call it cheese player. I'm hoping for Greg to take it, but if he loses its no shame because F91 playes 12 hours a day too-_-; He just has worse opponents.
and I think its safe to say ur a huge idra fanboy :D
On February 21 2009 20:48 damenmofa wrote: after this interview and the long time in korea i think its safe to say idra failed if he loses this
Its safe to say that you are an idiot. F91 is pretty strong and is a very aggressive, you might call it cheese player. I'm hoping for Greg to take it, but if he loses its no shame because F91 playes 12 hours a day too-_-; He just has worse opponents.
and I think its safe to say ur a huge idra fanboy :D
you can't just call someone a fanboy because they disagree with you
On February 21 2009 20:48 damenmofa wrote: after this interview and the long time in korea i think its safe to say idra failed if he loses this
Its safe to say that you are an idiot. F91 is pretty strong and is a very aggressive, you might call it cheese player. I'm hoping for Greg to take it, but if he loses its no shame because F91 playes 12 hours a day too-_-; He just has worse opponents.
and I think its safe to say ur a huge idra fanboy :D
you can't just call someone a fanboy because they disagree with you
plus hes right
but I guess I can if they start to throw insults around in a discussion about their favourite player..
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
thats all cool, but I still think F91 got this 5-2. next
Yeah funny :D Do i have to remind u WCG usa? Give the guy a break,he has zero talent.Doesnt matter how much time he spend out there.He'll never be good.
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
thats all cool, but I still think F91 got this 5-2. next
Yeah funny :D Do i have to remind u WCG usa? Give the guy a break,he has zero talent.Doesnt matter how much time he spend out there.He'll never be good.
I was hoping that Idra would have won, but that's becouse I hate chinese players :/ (they lag, there are too many of them, they always sticks their nose to everywhere) I don't like Idra or nony but I like Idra more since everyone hates him :D
On February 22 2009 04:08 Piste wrote: I was hoping that Idra would have won, but that's becouse I hate chinese players :/ (they lag, there are too many of them, they always sticks their nose to everywhere) I don't like Idra or nony but I like Idra more since everyone hates him :D
Thats a terrible reason to like someone, hes hated for a reason.
If was idra and lost, i'd catch the quickest plane flight home.
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
GG indeed.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Idra fails because with his arrogance and his cocky statements, he is putting a huge pressure on himself. And because with his manners, he is very disliked by the community, which is always hard to handle.
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
GG indeed.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Idra fails because with his arrogance and his cocky statements, he is putting a huge pressure on himself. And because with his manners, he is very disliked by the community, which is always hard to handle.
On February 22 2009 04:08 Piste wrote: I was hoping that Idra would have won, but that's becouse I hate chinese players :/ (they lag, there are too many of them, they always sticks their nose to everywhere) I don't like Idra or nony but I like Idra more since everyone hates him :D
JESUS IDRA IS BM. Types "G" for 2 games and then JUST LEAVES THE LAST GAME. I wish Nony was still in Korea because then we could have some one to cheer for that we knew could actually WIN games, unlike Idra who just talks shit. He should leave Korea and let a worthy foreigner take his place.
On February 22 2009 04:08 Piste wrote: I was hoping that Idra would have won, but that's becouse I hate chinese players :/ (they lag, there are too many of them, they always sticks their nose to everywhere) I don't like Idra or nony but I like Idra more since everyone hates him :D
On February 22 2009 04:41 haz wrote: why would you like someone more because everyone hates them? thats dumb
Underdog complex. Maybe he feels like he can relate to him better because he also feels hated by a lot of people? I dunno... Just speculating and making shit up He could also just have an irrational desire to rebel and go against the flow
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
GG indeed.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Idra fails because with his arrogance and his cocky statements, he is putting a huge pressure on himself. And because with his manners, he is very disliked by the community, which is always hard to handle.
It seems F91 improved more in this mu then Idra ... Hmm he is doing something wrong if he beated him in 2008 in a Bo3 2 - 0 and now he lost a Bo7 pretty easily before he took 2 games from him .
Don't kwnow about this . Enyone if he feels like it could be a cocky in an interview without puting second thoughts in to it , but if he put a lot of thought in it he should of practised more and backed up his words . I mean its not like progamers aren't cocky sometimes i remember Best stating that he will beat July 3 - 0 and then it complitly backfired .
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
Savior said he will destroy everyone in 2009 . Do people hate him for being cocky or arrogant i think not . By saying does words at least Savior is pushing himself harder even if he won't destroy everyone he is still doing a lot better then 2008 already . So being arrogant or cocky in an interview pushes you harder to perform better if not for enything else .
are you kidding? Part of being a bonjwa is the mental strength that comes from knowing you are better than any other player.
Usually a bonjwa drops so fast, because they get upset, and now that stong mental state is just gone. In addition you have players not thinking the former bonjwa is invincible anymore so they more actively look for weaknesses
oh man I can't wait to watch these vods. Personally I'm a little dissapointed with Idra. I'm not a fanboy by anymeans, but any foreigner succeeding in korea is a great thing to me. Seeing a player who has been studying and practicing hard in korea not be able to win in this showmatch makes me worry about if foreigners will ever compete again, somehow, i really doubt it til SC2.
I wonder if idra's team/coaches knew about this event. It would be quite hard on him losing in front of them to non pro.
China always has had great players though and F91 proves again that they can compete.
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
I think you're misinterpreting him as well.
Because we only know Jaedong from interviews and what he does on stage, we don't really know what's going on in his mind. He might actually be really cocky and brag about winning to his teammates all the time. Or he might look down on his opponents or make voodoo dolls and pierce them every day.
You need humility... or do you? Maybe half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...) are where they are because of their unrelenting ego. It's just that they haven't showed it publicly as much as Idra.
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
I think you're misinterpreting him as well.
Because we only know Jaedong from interviews and what he does on stage, we don't really know what's going on in his mind. He might actually be really cocky and brag about winning to his teammates all the time. Or he might look down on his opponents or make voodoo dolls and pierce them every day.
You need humility... or do you? Maybe half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...) are where they are because of their unrelenting ego. It's just that they haven't showed it publicly as much as Idra.
You compare Idra to " half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...)" ??
They: super strong, humble (at least in the interview) Idra: weak, super cocky (everywhere, in the forum, in games, in interview....)
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
The sidenote wasn't in response to you.
I understand your opinion. I think it's deserving of ridicule. At best, you could demonstrate a weak correlation. No causation. There aren't any good reasons to think there would be cauasation. How you think that you've figured out that FBH could improve his StarCraft skillset if only he'd say different words in interviews and perform different celebrations is beyond my imagination.
The one bit of wisdom I think you could be getting at is that players need to have a clear mind and be comfortable with themselves. Maybe you're just assuming that someone who is disrespectful and arrogant couldn't also have peace of mind. Full potential can't be reached without peace of mind. I agree with you there. But it's nearly impossible to know a player's true mind so I discourage people substituting evidence with assumptions and getting on a soapbox.
well the overall conclusion is that idra simple cant play high lv starcraft, even when he does practise 12h a day.. I undrestand this, not everryone is born to be progamer, so
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
I think you're misinterpreting him as well.
Because we only know Jaedong from interviews and what he does on stage, we don't really know what's going on in his mind. He might actually be really cocky and brag about winning to his teammates all the time. Or he might look down on his opponents or make voodoo dolls and pierce them every day.
You need humility... or do you? Maybe half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...) are where they are because of their unrelenting ego. It's just that they haven't showed it publicly as much as Idra.
You compare Idra to " half the successful pros today (Bisu, Savior, ...)" ??
They: super strong, humble (at least in the interview) Idra: weak, super cocky (everywhere, in the forum, in games, in interview....)
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not defending Idra and I'm not trying to bring down any of today's successful players.
I'm saying that the mistake that many people are prone to making is that "super strong, humble in the interview" equals evidence of great skill. Reading lilsusie's blog about the "truth behind progaming", although she was coy about the details, was pretty illuminating to me in this respect.
Idra has proven himself to be arrogant and cocky throughout his interviews, in the games, etc. So you might be able to make the reference that being cocky = not a great player. But that's due to our negative perception of arrogance and the plain fact that Idra isn't very good. If we knew what progamers were really like maybe we'd see that most of them are just as arrogant, except they do very well on interviews. Kind of like how beauty queens will have really nice answers during the competition but drink booze and smoke crack in real life.
EDIT: Nony put it in much better terms than I did.
lol it is impossible to convince people that idra is good when he keeps doing bad . Fact is he is a good player, but I'm guessing the mental part of his game when there are things on the line for a game just get to his head .
On February 22 2009 06:09 SkepTicAL wrote: lol it is impossible to convince people that idra is good when he keeps doing bad . Fact is he is a good player, but I'm guessing the mental part of his game when there are things on the line for a game just get to his head .
nobody is doubting that IdrA is a good player, well I guess there are a bunch of retards here who do that. but point is:
- IdrA is really good. - He's also really arrogant and thinks he's much better than everyone else - When he actually plays people in pressure situations, he expects to win easily because he thinks very highly of himself - When he finds out that these other people are actually pretty good and can compete / even be able to beat him, he goes on tilt and starts playing badly - That causes more losses
(just my view of watching IdrA play these kinds of official games, especially here and at wcg)
He's a reallllllly good player, but at the same time I think in part due to his arrogance, he'll always end up choking in these kinds of matches because the reality is, other players are a lot better than he gives them credit for being, and he can't take the pressure of not living up to his standards. In his mind, he should be destroying everyone, but he doesn't, it that mental aspect plays a big role.
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
The sidenote wasn't in response to you.
I understand your opinion. I think it's deserving of ridicule. At best, you could demonstrate a weak correlation. No causation. There aren't any good reasons to think there would be cauasation. How you think that you've figured out that FBH could improve his StarCraft skillset if only he'd say different words in interviews and perform different celebrations is beyond my imagination.
The one bit of wisdom I think you could be getting at is that players need to have a clear mind and be comfortable with themselves. Maybe you're just assuming that someone who is disrespectful and arrogant couldn't also have peace of mind. Full potential can't be reached without peace of mind. I agree with you there. But it's nearly impossible to know a player's true mind so I discourage people substituting evidence with assumptions and getting on a soapbox.
Ok. Let's put it another way.
Let say you are Idra. You are a very good foreigner, not the best, struggling to make it in Korea were hundred people are better than you. Then you face one of the very best forigner. You have played him once, very long time ago.
What do you say in an interview? You say that you hope to win, and that you will see.
Now, if you need to say that you will win 6-1 or 5-2 and that your opponent may win a game by cheesing cuz you are so good, something is wrong.
Humility is natural. There is lot of people better than you, and you lose to people worse than you sometimes. So you are humble. Because that's how life is.
If you know you are better (which, btw was not the case here), you still don't say that your opponent will lose anyway, unless you are stupid, because it put useless pressure on your shoulder: if you lose, you will get flamed (badly).
So why one needs to be arrogant? The answer is simple: being cocky is escaping the truth, therefore it means you don't have a well built-up self-confidence.
And you fail. And you get flamed. And everybody dislike you. And next time, you are even more cocky because your self confidence get more and more fragile.
Champions are people with a very very very strong mental. So they are not cocky, as being cocky is a huuuuge sign of weakness, unless your name is IloveOov and you have 80% win ratio. But again, when Oov started to lose, he became much much more humble. Cuz he is not stupid. And cuz, as a champion he necesserely has a very healthy relationship to himself.
my post from the other thread...apparently just as relevant here :o
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
Nope.
Best fighter in the world right now doesn't shit talk, he's extremely friendly, puts all his faith in god, and doesn't jump around like an idiot, so your entire argument is thrown out the window.
And if you met idra in real life and he acted nice, its because hes a stick figure that looks like he crawled out from the deepest cave on earth.
He's a shit talker, he practices with pros non-stop, hes supposed to be a "professional" and he lost to a foreigner while being BM, and guess what? F91's nice..
A) If you ever post like this is gosugamers again with you 1 example argument buster they your fucking gone. B) This is not specifically about Idra. Its about competition in general - if idra embraces the shit talk spirit then so be it.
On February 22 2009 07:05 Kennigit wrote: A) If you ever post like this is gosugamers again with you 1 example argument buster they your fucking gone. B) This is not specifically about Idra. Its about competition in general - if idra embraces the shit talk spirit then so be it.
Best fighter in the world doesn't shit talk.
Shit talker got destroyed by a foreigner that is apparently "1-2 years" behind.
i'm going to go ahead and agree with pann for the most part. people lose their epeen attitude in real life, obviously, because you're no longer hiding behind a computer. being a decent person in real life doesn't absolve you from being a complete douche in interviews, forums, and professional games. this is the idra i've seen, and his decision to represent himself this way beyond the guise of anonymity is probably a better representation of his true character than being a decent person to hang around in person. i can't respect that, sorry.
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
Kennigit I'd like to believe you, but if Idra's been acting BM just for the fun of it, he's not doing it very well. Has he been faking BM throughout all his posts on TL, on every streamed broadcast, on every incident that's ever happened? I'm sure you know him better as a person, but it's hard to be convinced when there's no "regular Idra" vs. "BM Idra". I think if Idra acted his "real self" most of the time and acted BM just before games people would find it pretty humorous and entertaining.
On February 22 2009 07:09 PanN wrote: Best fighter in the world doesn't shit talk.
Shit talker got destroyed by a foreigner that is apparently "1-2 years" behind.
I think thats open and shut.
GSP does talk shit (albeit not as much as other fighters. He is one guy though, and best in his weight class). Remember when matt hughes was on top or matt sera?. , go watch their prefight interviews. And even if he didn't, does that make BJ a bad fighter? Does it make him a bad person cause he's trying to get into his opponent's head? No.
The thing that makes sports competative is the desire to win and the will to defeat your opponent. If Idra's plan is to do this by under appreciating the the skill of his opponents then that is fine. Whether it works is not relevant to the fact that smack talking and the creation of drama is just part of the game. Why else would we have him on a Van Damne Body and F91 on Bolo :p
i don't think the analogy really matters, honestly. i think people generally expect more in terms of manners because starcraft is a game that has more to do with chess or go than boxing or ufc (although the recent absurdity of some pre-game ceremonies might make this debatable)
talking shit is a massive part playing competitive sports. in baseball, as a shortstop, one of my major roles is to fuck with runners standing on second. kicking sand on them, talking smack, hard tags are devices i can use to gain a competitive advantage.
God, what is wrong with you kids lol. Have you every watched a professional fight? Boxing, UFC, MMA, The fighters are hyped up, trash talk each other to no end to get everyone buzzed for the event. What's more interesting, two good buddies having a friendly match or China vs USA battle for racial supremacy and bragging rights?
I've met Idra in person and he is very modest and not the shit talker that is he is made out to be- like most American BW players he has a lot more to say online which often leads to this "drama". It's not a result of being rude or BM but simply accepting the fact that it's just a game and if (like many who have posted in this thread) you take it too seriously then you haven't done yourself justice.
I'd implore you all to come back to reality and get off the "idra is rude, he started it first" high horse....its just the internet you nerds.
No offense, but professional fighting is totally different. They do that kind of shit because it hypes people up, it's sort of staged in a way. And if you want to look at sports, professional fighting is pretty much the ONLY sport (to my knowledge) where people actually trash talk. Look at the NBA, NHL, NFL, or any other major sport, nobody talks shit in their interviews. Even if a team wins by a landslide, they still give their opponents credit. Tennis is the same. Boxing and stuff has trash talking because it's more for show than they are actually talking trash.
When IdrA makes the comments he makes, it's not because he's trying to build up hype and put on some kind of show-rivalry. He genuinely thinks most other players are shitty and he should roll over them. If you don't see that you are fooling yourself.
I've met IdrA in person too, and he's a nice guy, but let's face it, almost every single personality online turns out to be nice in real life. Not many people would talk shit in front of your face... IdrA is a nice guy, but he's too cocky and it comes off REALLY the wrong way especially online, and IMO it hinders him because he's shown he can't play well in pressure situations, and he adds unneeded pressure because of how arrogant he seems
On February 22 2009 07:09 PanN wrote: Best fighter in the world doesn't shit talk.
Shit talker got destroyed by a foreigner that is apparently "1-2 years" behind.
I think thats open and shut.
GSP does talk shit (albeit not as much as other fighters. He is one guy though, and best in his weight class). Remember when matt hughes was on top or matt sera?. , go watch their prefight interviews. And even if he didn't, does that make BJ a bad fighter? Does it make him a bad person cause he's trying to get into his opponent's head? No.
The thing that makes sports competative is the desire to win and the will to defeat your opponent. If Idra's plan is to do this by under appreciating the the skill of his opponents then that is fine. Whether it works is not relevant to the fact that smack talking and the creation of drama is just part of the game. Why else would we have him on a Van Damne Body and F91 on Bolo :p
Although I was talking about fedor (its obviously just an opinion until the two have their own BO5, which would be sick) I do see your point that it makes the games better.
You're completely right actually, the fact that the non-professional nice guy overcomes the "professional"-ass to nearly every single person on the forums makes it one of the best sets in SC history to me.
And seeing two monkies beat their chest in anticipation meanwhile bad mouthing eachother makes it boring and a bad match to me. Seeing two fighters with good manners, and respect for the sport, makes me want to watch.
I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
Same question different year. Who's gonna stop number 85.
On February 22 2009 07:30 Kennigit wrote: I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
If you talk shit and lose horribly you get laughed at, that´s just the way it goes.
But I think F91 isn´t given enough credit for his outstanding play, Idra was no pushover and other foreign top zergs probably would have looked much worse.
On February 22 2009 05:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:58 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On February 22 2009 04:26 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 21 2009 18:15 Final[pain] wrote: For starters...
IDRA has been practising with programers for how long now??
Im sorry, but it should be plain obvious Idra will win, here are some reasons for all u haters:
- Hes been practising against members of CJ, lol.. - His best matchup is TvZ. - He already beat F91 in 2008, hes most definately improved since then.. LOL (compred to f91). - He has practised harder, longer and against better opponents. - Its a best of 7, luck aint gonna win anything.
GG.
Actually, I've noticed that top players, like Jaedong, Flash, Boxer, Nada, or even, in the foreign scene, Mondragon, all share the same quality: a HUUUUUGE humility.
Huge humility in interviews. Most people aren't themselves in interviews.
Based on my experience, I don't think the content of interviews matters much to players when they are playing their matches. I can see how fans would perceive a greater connection because the only things they see are an interview and a result. But for most players, an interview is just a task that must be performed. Jot down how you feel at the time, or recite your pageant-like answers, and get on with your day.
IdrA could be feeling pressure but attributing it to his forum posts or interview responses is one of the last places I'd go.
On a sidenote about interviews... I've observed that most tl.netters lap up the promotional bullshit and condemn honest negativity. I'd much rather hear a player complain about map imbalance, difficulty of schedule, or his opponent's foolish risks all paying off than hear "I will destroy everyone in 2009" or cowardly humility. The former is informative in a number of ways and the latter is just about image. I just thought that the tl.net demographic wouldn't have cared so much about image.
You don't get my point: I'm not talking about image.
I'm pretty sure Jaedong has never been to a match of starcraft thinking and saying that he would explode an opponent he didn't even know. Because that's fucking stupid. And because someone who behave like that canno't be a champion. Idra did it against F91.
To be very good, you need humility. That's it. Idra doesn't have any, therefore he keeps losing in stupid situations.
First you respect your opponent, and you are a bit carefull about your own skills, than you win. Look at FBH. I think he has the potential of playing as well as Flash. This guy will never win anything. Simple.
Savior said he will destroy everyone in 2009 . Do people hate him for being cocky or arrogant i think not . By saying does words at least Savior is pushing himself harder even if he won't destroy everyone he is still doing a lot better then 2008 already . So being arrogant or cocky in an interview pushes you harder to perform better if not for enything else .
but savior said that AFTER WINNING a FINAL. and idra is who? B team CJ. savior is who? 3 time msl winner, yadayada. savior has the RIGHT to say that while idra has none.
On February 22 2009 07:30 Kennigit wrote: I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
Honestly, I'm not saying that it is a necessarily bad thing that IdrA talks a lot of shit, but then this sort of response when he loses should be expected. If shit talking is fun, then flaming the fuck out of people who talk shit and lose is fun too. When people shit talk in sports and lose, fans go wild because the guy that talked shit got it shoved back in his face. Same case with IdrA.
He talked shit, couldn't back it up - now people are flaming him, it's a natural occurrence. If you want to avoid these situations, don't talk shit - if you're fine with it, let it fly from both sides.
On February 22 2009 08:41 Xeris wrote: He talked shit, couldn't back it up - now people are flaming him, it's a natural occurrence. If you want to avoid these situations, don't talk shit - if you're fine with it, let it fly from both sides.
This is basically what im saying. Guess we are arguing the same point :p .
Lots of shit talking goes on in the NBA and NFL on the court/field.
Boxing also has a ton of shit talking. Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson are two that most people know.
The talk and the hype and the image all build interest and enhance the experience. It does need boundaries. But people should know that talking shit doesn't void respect. If you respond negatively to it, then you've got the wrong idea. It may not tickle your fancy, but it's not offensive or negative.
Xeris, IdrA talking shit about his opponents and fans talking shit about IdrA are not the same and one doesn't justify the other. Players partake in a competition together and that makes all the difference.
On February 22 2009 08:41 Xeris wrote: He talked shit, couldn't back it up - now people are flaming him, it's a natural occurrence. If you want to avoid these situations, don't talk shit - if you're fine with it, let it fly from both sides.
This is basically what im saying. Guess we are arguing the same point :p .
ya I guess looking at the same thing from different angles +P!
On February 22 2009 09:03 Liquid`NonY wrote: Lots of shit talking goes on in the NBA and NFL on the court/field.
Boxing also has a ton of shit talking. Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson are two that most people know.
The talk and the hype and the image all build interest and enhance the experience. It does need boundaries. But people should know that talking shit doesn't void respect. If you respond negatively to it, then you've got the wrong idea. It may not tickle your fancy, but it's not offensive or negative.
Xeris, IdrA talking shit about his opponents and fans talking shit about IdrA are not the same and one doesn't justify the other. Players partake in a competition together and that makes all the difference.
I realize a lot of shit talking goes on in the NBA, but they're always really humble in the interviews themselves. Although sure maybe that doesn't say much, but at the same time maybe it's kinda rude if you're like "fuck this newb I'm going to rape him because Kor zergs are much better and I train with Kors all day so therefore I'm better and I'll win" ... and end up losing, then get ready to take shit from fans.
It depends on the degree. If IdrA talks shit about his opponent and overall has a cocky/arrogant attitude, fans WILL talk shit about IdrA. Whether or not it is justified or not is debatable, but it's going to happen whether you like it or not. A lot of people don't respect the Boston Celtics because of what a trash talking team they are... word gets around, and a lot of people don't like them because of it. So when they lose, people relish in it because of the amount of shit they talk. Same with IdrA.
The PROBLEM is that people here take it too far, obviously saying things like "lol take the next flight back home because you lost" isn't justified and that's taking it too far.
But if he's talking shit, then loses, fans have every right (imo) to put it back in his face. He's basically asking for it by saying that kinda shit in interviews in the first place. Don't play with fire if you can't handle to heat or w/e
But kennigit didn't you say yourself that those are the BEST guys at what they do that are talking shiit before games? IdrA is on B team and not even close to being the best of progamers. It's like magic johnson and larry bird showdown the two best players in the nba at the time would be able to talk trash to each other if they wanted to hype things up and same for flash vs jaedong because they are AMAZING players while idra who has done nothing and continues to BM and trash talk.
The biggest difference is that it was IdrA talking down on F91. If it was FlaSh that said that to f91(which i highly doubt would be that arrogant considering korean culture) then we would acknowledge it more because we all know how much of a monster flash is. So what I'm sayinig is he should act more humble till he is truely skilled and considered one of the best in progamer. At this point it's questionable whether he is the best among even foriegners(I just don't feel the gap between IdrA and the top foriegner is THAT big even though he gets to practice with progamers). Gap between korean progamers and top foriegners maybe but not IdrA.
He's not the best at what he does yet to be making those kind of comments and even if he does become the best, someone gave that iloveoov example where he started losing and was still humble the mindset of a winner. Like Xeris has said..he's not doing it for the hype but he really thinks the players he plays are that bad.
Yeah it's all debatable, and boils down to personal opinion. It's just much different actions and I don't see the need to connect them just because they're both called "talking shit". If I call my best friend an asshole, that has a much different meaning and a much different effect than if some stranger calls my best friend an asshole. The relationship between the two people makes a world of difference. People should just be aware. I definitely disapprove of fans talking shit about the players. But yeah I know it'll happen no matter what.
I think there's a difference between talking shit before a game (for hype) and an actual lack of respect.
Very few of us have met Idra personally, so his online persona is all we have to work with. He comes off as someone who likes taking shits on other foreign players, beyond what is necessary to get people "hyped." Perhaps in real life he greatly respects his opponents, but online he simply doesn't show it. His not saying "gg" at the end of the last game doesn't help. It's like refusing to shake hands with your opponents after the match. It's just rude and shows a lack of respect.
On February 22 2009 04:41 haz wrote: why would you like someone more because everyone hates them? thats dumb
Underdog complex. Maybe he feels like he can relate to him better because he also feels hated by a lot of people? I dunno... Just speculating and making shit up He could also just have an irrational desire to rebel and go against the flow
I think there's a difference between a guy who is actually playing a match trash talking and dudes posting on the internet to say things about that guy when they themselves aren't playing matches.
Ironic that so many people who are like "lololol idra got owned shouldn't have said stuff before his showmatch lololol" are saying so much when they're not good enough to get invited for a showmatch. The fact that a bunch of nobodies on a game forum are saying crap about idra is pretty much proof that you think a bunch of nobodies have the right to talk trash with no repercussions or accountability for their own results or skill, so why would you get your panties all bunched up over idra talking trash?
Humility isn't in and of itself a good thing, especially fake humility. If people are confident and want to trash talk, who are you to tell them otherwise? News flash, not everybody is some shy, awkward Korean movie character bound to some Westerner's perception of Korean culture (that they've probably never experienced first hand anyhow), so I don't see why you would expect everybody (other than yourselves) to act that way.
On February 22 2009 09:47 quiong wrote: I think there's a difference between talking shit before a game (for hype) and an actual lack of respect.
Very few of us have met Idra personally, so his online persona is all we have to work with. He comes off as someone who likes taking shits on other foreign players, beyond what is necessary to get people "hyped." Perhaps in real life he greatly respects his opponents, but online he simply doesn't show it. His not saying "gg" at the end of the last game doesn't help. It's like refusing to shake hands with your opponents after the match. It's just rude and shows a lack of respect.
On February 22 2009 10:22 MCMcEmcee wrote: I think there's a difference between a guy who is actually playing a match trash talking and dudes posting on the internet to say things about that guy when they themselves aren't playing matches.
Ironic that so many people who are like "lololol idra got owned shouldn't have said stuff before his showmatch lololol" are saying so much when they're not good enough to get invited for a showmatch. The fact that a bunch of nobodies on a game forum are saying crap about idra is pretty much proof that you think a bunch of nobodies have the right to talk trash with no repercussions or accountability for their own results or skill, so why would you get your panties all bunched up over idra talking trash?
Actually yeah, I think a bunch of nobodies have a right to talk trash with no repercussions. Because they're nobodies.
I can say whatever the fuck I want. The president can't.
Idra thinks of himself as somebody. Like it or not, he's the only foreign SC player right now on a korean proteam. He's our only representative, if you want to describe it like that. Does he have a right to trash talk and be BM? Sure. But he can't expect to do it with no repercussions, since he's not a nobody.
Sounds like a lot of Idra fans expected him to be able to trash talk without any backlash too. Are you delusional? Why are you getting YOUR panties in a bunch over the Idra haters getting their panties in a bunch?
No one would be saying anything if Idra wasn't acting like a dick and not even gg'ing at the end of the game. Its just adding further and further onto the bad reputation he already has so its no suprise everyone is going to comment negatively about it.
[QUOTE]On February 22 2009 10:48 quiong wrote: [QUOTE]On February 22 2009 10:22 MCMcEmcee wrote: I think there's a difference between a guy who is actually playing a match trash talking and dudes posting on the internet to say things about that guy when they themselves aren't playing matches.
Ironic that so many people who are like "lololol idra got owned shouldn't have said stuff before his showmatch lololol" are saying so much when they're not good enough to get invited for a showmatch. The fact that a bunch of nobodies on a game forum are saying crap about idra is pretty much proof that you think a bunch of nobodies have the right to talk trash with no repercussions or accountability for their own results or skill, so why would you get your panties all bunched up over idra talking trash?
[/QUOTE]
I can say whatever the fuck I want. The president can't. [QUOTE] Don't get disillusioned by the impersonal interface of the internet. Also, it's called trash talking, people just hate on IdrA for his trash talking because of his normal personality. But if you're going to find something to hate on, don't let it be this because this situation is a losing battle.
kind of lessening the blow f91 is a better player than you guys give him credit i mean i have reps of the man beating stork so i mean he is a better player than you guys give him credit it wasnt going to be so easy for idra as he though
who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I'm really tired of seeing this USA vs Europe vs China hate that goes on. Can't we all just be friends
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
That is so true.
As someone who frequents both European/American SC forums/sites and Chinese SC forums/sites, I do look at the many posts that are filled with mistakes/misunderstandings/complete bullshit due to a simple lack of communication.
On February 22 2009 09:17 Liquid`NonY wrote: Yeah it's all debatable, and boils down to personal opinion. It's just much different actions and I don't see the need to connect them just because they're both called "talking shit". If I call my best friend an asshole, that has a much different meaning and a much different effect than if some stranger calls my best friend an asshole. The relationship between the two people makes a world of difference. People should just be aware. I definitely disapprove of fans talking shit about the players. But yeah I know it'll happen no matter what.
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
And, as I said before, being cocky reveals a problem of self confidence. You can't be a top player lacking self-confidence.
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
And, as I said before, being cocky reveals a problem of self confidence. You can't be a top player lacking self-confidence.
ehh the one thing annoying about a lot of people on this site is that none of them have really followed pro sports. I'm not saying you have to like pro sports, that's definitely 100% a matter of personal opinion. But most people who watch pro sports would never say something like this because they understand how false a statement such as "the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other" is
On February 22 2009 09:17 Liquid`NonY wrote: Yeah it's all debatable, and boils down to personal opinion. It's just much different actions and I don't see the need to connect them just because they're both called "talking shit". If I call my best friend an asshole, that has a much different meaning and a much different effect than if some stranger calls my best friend an asshole. The relationship between the two people makes a world of difference. People should just be aware. I definitely disapprove of fans talking shit about the players. But yeah I know it'll happen no matter what.
Sad but true
Without fans and the drama that comes with them, professional sports wouldn´t be possible. If you get payed for playing a game, you better get used to that. Maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but it´s the truth.
It has nothing to do with personal opinion, not in the very least. It's a very simple objective action and reaction. You talk shit -> you get shit talked back. You don't like this connection? Does it bother you? Then guess what, don't talk shit! That is the only one remedy: don't talk shit. Coming to some random people saying it's "personal preference" won't change it, because it simply isn't a matter of personal opinion. It's a straight fact. If you treat people like shit, you get treated like shit. I don't know about you guys, but I fortunately learned this at the age of 3.
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
Do you care about players showing respect or actually respecting? You switched it from one sentence to another.
No amount of disrespectful words can overcome the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch with a player.
i think the understudy is looking for a sense of sportsmanlike conduct, since it goes without saying the respective players respect each other as players. more likely than not he is just not choosing his words carefully, as nony aptly points out.
Is it just me that get really, really disapointed every time Idra loses something. Everyone says he is good and making headway in Korea, I wanna believe this and therefore it is sad that he dosnt get to play on his full potential.
In any case, it is disappointing that Idra lost, given his experience in Korea now which has been quite a while.
People should be talking more about the REAL news that's going on behind the scenes and asking more questions like "what kind of problems could Idra be facing in Korea? what kind of training does F91 go through? does Idra intend on staying for a couple more years?" Seriously, it dawned on me how shallow a lot of posters here are, asking instead, "HAHA IDRA I KNEW IT!!11ONE! PACK YOUR BAGS LOL I'M SMART!!"
On February 22 2009 17:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
Do you care about players showing respect or actually respecting? You switched it from one sentence to another.
No amount of disrespectful words can overcome the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch with a player.
hahahha
Yes, the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch
On February 22 2009 17:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
Do you care about players showing respect or actually respecting? You switched it from one sentence to another.
No amount of disrespectful words can overcome the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch with a player.
hahahha
Yes, the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch
"IM GONNA RAPE THIS NOOB"
If it's a noob worth raping, then yeah. You wouldn't see IdrA doing a showmatch with lastshadow, for example.
On February 22 2009 17:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
And, as I said before, being cocky reveals a problem of self confidence. You can't be a top player lacking self-confidence.
ehh the one thing annoying about a lot of people on this site is that none of them have really followed pro sports. I'm not saying you have to like pro sports, that's definitely 100% a matter of personal opinion. But most people who watch pro sports would never say something like this because they understand how false a statement such as "the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other" is
I've been watching all proleague and starleague games for two years.
And when FBH makes his gay dance, I think the whole thing loses all its interest.
On February 22 2009 17:42 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On February 22 2009 16:17 iG.ClouD wrote: who cares how players behave, all that matters are the results this loss of idra is very disappointing because he's been in korea for too much time to lose a bo7 to f91. no excuses or bullshit please, that won't help him at all considering the fact he has a long way to go before ever trying to consider himself a top foreign player. on the other hand it has to be said f91 is amazing. i've also had the opportunity to see chinattt at wcg and he amazed me aswell. chinese players are just good, i wish their community was not so distant from ours.
I don't agree.
Imo the competition loses all its interest if players can't show respect to each other. A competition is a fight against yourself. When people stop respecting each other, the whole thing becomes just stupid.
Do you care about players showing respect or actually respecting? You switched it from one sentence to another.
No amount of disrespectful words can overcome the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch with a player.
hahahha
Yes, the respect inherent in agreeing to do a showmatch
"IM GONNA RAPE THIS NOOB"
If it's a noob worth raping, then yeah. You wouldn't see IdrA doing a showmatch with lastshadow, for example.
There was money involved dude. You making it sound like idra played for free.
On February 22 2009 07:30 Kennigit wrote: I would argue there is alot of shit talking in other sports - probably not as much as fighting but i would imagine its because the spokepeople are coaches or managers and not the players.
Ever heard of Ocho Cinco Xeris :p. Chad Johnson is an AMAZING shit talker. Whether he backs it up or not isn't relevant. Same with Chalrenge, FBH, go.go, Ty Domi. People love to love or love to hate these people because of their character. Getting caught up in the motive isn't really solving anything. I don't think theres anything to solve. I love the fact that idra and mistrzzz are so BM and that there's huge racial and national grudges - it's what keeps this all interesting :p
I think we covered something like this before. I think Chad Johnson sucks =P. Not because he talks shit but because he's been playing this diva rather than the arrogant goof that everyone originally fell in love with and lackluster follow ups to his #1 rec yards (this is kinda like a silver metal to me, who the hell cares about rec yards. The bengals go to Chad because they can't go anywhere else) season.
Anyway the point is that "character" is not synonymous with arrogance, Chad Johnson has character but that's because he WAS a riot in the media in both his successes AND his failures. Idra is not. Everyone would be singing an entirely different tune if Idra had said "Yea I played like shit, but I'm still the fucking man." Rather then this juvenile excuse of F91 not being smart enough to fall for his strategy. I don't hate IdrA or any pro athlete. Ultimately, in esports or regular sports, you better be ridiculously hard working and lovable or a prodigy to be in the spot light.
On February 23 2009 10:57 freedom yay wrote: It was a really good series and although Idra lost, you can see what he's learned from Korea. He has such strong mechanics and great determination.
I'm not NEARLY good enough to criticize him so I won't.
Great series by both of them.
There is no way you watched the same games I did.
Idra did beyond terrible, leaving marines to attack without medics, making a million turrets when he didn't even need one, let important groups of his die to stupidity because he left him in flank spots basically throwing them away, the commentators explained alot more, but what I watched was no where near programer level.
Ontop of being no where near the level he should be, he proved hes not only BM out of game, hes BM in game.
Half assed GG's, and no GG at the very end.
All of this is sad because Idra said foreigner zerg strategies are 1-2 years behind.