I've been playing a lot of ZvP recently and have been told that the ceiling preventing me from getting any better is lack of APM. Now, Bakuryu only has around 160 APM over a game but it's mostly EAPM; I'm at about 150 APM and it's, well, not mostly EAPM. It's usually around 90-100 EAPM according to bwrepinfo. How can I increase my EAPM and overall APM? I haven't had any APM increases in about 6 months. Obviously I don't want to learn to spam, I want to be doing useful things with the increased APM.
Increasing APM/EAPM
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
I've been playing a lot of ZvP recently and have been told that the ceiling preventing me from getting any better is lack of APM. Now, Bakuryu only has around 160 APM over a game but it's mostly EAPM; I'm at about 150 APM and it's, well, not mostly EAPM. It's usually around 90-100 EAPM according to bwrepinfo. How can I increase my EAPM and overall APM? I haven't had any APM increases in about 6 months. Obviously I don't want to learn to spam, I want to be doing useful things with the increased APM. | ||
evilfatsh1t
Australia8513 Posts
it sounds obvious, but it doesnt actually happen a lot. anyways this will increase your apm if you focus on it for a reasonable amount of time. eapm however, will only increase when all this stuff becomes routine for you and your game sense is heightened. | ||
iFU.pauline
France1388 Posts
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L_Master
United States7946 Posts
1) know your own gameplan solidly, and what you are trying to do 2)Practice doing things quickly and preciesly. Some people are kind lazy with their mouse and placing things. You want to move very quickly to do something, but also preciesly so you don't miss and have to try again 3)Watch FPVoDs to see how the good multitasking zergs do it. How long do they focus on macro? How long on army? When generally in battles do they glance away? How have they organized hatches for macro? Which actions are prioritized? etc. etc. Study and understand those and then try to match that rhythmn. 4)Practice playing overly fast vs CPU. Try to jump screens like mad. Army. Hatches. Army. Drone Mine. Army. 3rd Base. OL repoistion. Army. Macro. You get the idea, go so fast your almost out of control and your play is on the brink of getting sloppy. This can kinda jumpstart your brain into the habit/though process of thinking at a faster, more multitask heavy rate. 5) Precision - This is like music style. If your trying to get used to going through hatches first, start off very slow making sure each click is perfect. Then get faster once you're good at it. Keep getting faster and faster once you master the previously speed until you've got that blazing precision and speed. | ||
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
..and it increases your apm.. also there are practice maps, where you do your build order while microing a worker in the middle of a map, on a small area, against a choboling. Then you need to have to increase you apm to keep your worker alive and do your build order. | ||
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On April 24 2013 18:47 Birdie wrote: Hi, I've been playing a lot of ZvP recently and have been told that the ceiling preventing me from getting any better is lack of APM. Now, Bakuryu only has around 160 APM over a game but it's mostly EAPM; I'm at about 150 APM and it's, well, not mostly EAPM. It's usually around 90-100 EAPM according to bwrepinfo. How can I increase my EAPM and overall APM? I haven't had any APM increases in about 6 months. Obviously I don't want to learn to spam, I want to be doing useful things with the increased APM. Its unnecessary, and I doubt that is what is preventing you from getting better. When you get better, your mechanics will naturally increase. I used to have 250 apm, now I have 150 and I am twice as good as I used to be, I have better macro, micro, multitask even though I've "lost" 100 apm. | ||
HungrySC2
United States191 Posts
1. Know your build inside and out. Don't focus on anything until you can macro out your build for at least 10 minutes without any mistakes. 2. Use hotkeys. Make sure you are hotkeying everything. I know hotkeys for production are different between the two games, but make sure armies and locations are getting hotkeyed and being used constantly. 3. Watch your minimap and money. If you glance at your minimap and your money and don't instantly need to do 2 or more things. You're doing something wrong. 4. Find patterns. Something I'm trying to learn is to move my army away from the enemy when I go macro. Then move forward when I'm done. It's not neccesarily the example itself that I'm trying to point out, but the idea that "because my army is moving away I have time to do something else" This type of planning can be used in all aspects of the game. For example I know in my build order that I don't have to add production or make supply depots after I start the next building so for 10 seconds afterwards I can focus on doing something else. 5. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Because you're willing to make mistakes you can play games with yourself. Force yourself to move all your army hotkeys at least one time between every macro cycle. Add all the new units to hotkeys between every macro cycle. Scout somewhere on the map between every macro cycle. etc etc. The more things you realize you could be doing. And the more you practice doing them. The more likely you are to be able to fit them into your game and naturally improve your APM. Focus on the basics and then slowly add things in. 6. Play against people worse than you (or against noone/computer). To improve on things you haven't done before. So you can try to add them into your game. 7. Play against people better than you. To force yourself to become faster at doing the things you need to do. | ||
RednBlack
Canada24 Posts
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idegelchik
Russian Federation376 Posts
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vanatir
Germany355 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3121 Posts
On April 26 2013 16:57 idegelchik wrote: im 170-180apm(100-120eapm) protoss user, dont know how guys make 250-300apm... TT by playing ALOT also force your self to constatly have some amount of apm in the game, like have apm alert for 300 or something. | ||
therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
But I guess you can try your multitasking. This is usually what make EAPM very strong Practice along very repetitive thing and go for cycles of production. Move army Then scout some other place then Macro Some Units Then build Supply Then Reinforce Army Then Tech up And Repeat Even if you are in battle you should never try to stop doing this. Look for the right moments to do this during battles. Repetion is the Key | ||
GoShox
United States1834 Posts
On April 26 2013 16:57 idegelchik wrote: im 170-180apm(100-120eapm) protoss user, dont know how guys make 250-300apm... TT When I started playing, I shift clicked my scouting Probe around cause I thought it was impossible for anyone to keep it alive with multitasking lol. I never used any certain tricks or anything.. I just played the game and got faster over time. I took a lot of long breaks from a few weeks to months and oddly enough, every time I came back, my APM jumped a bit. Probably just differs from person to person. | ||
Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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t0ssboy
Bulgaria679 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:05 Thor.Rush wrote: As a high master terran (or gm when im more active), my apm for sc2 is usually around 200 using my laptop. My epm is almost the same as my apm. When I switch to a mechanical keyboard my average apm is 250 or more, but I don't think I play better; it's just easier to hit the keys more often. Also the sound of the keys just makes me spam a bit more unconsciously. And how does this help him or any other user looking at the topic? | ||
KadaverBB
Germany25638 Posts
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines516 Posts
and this whole apm/eapm thing drives me fucking insane, especially as a zerg. so i spam move click to keep my mutas stacked, smoothen out flight path, and keep them at maximum flying speed, and some silly algorithm decides that those actions should be considered spam? i spam 5sm6sm7sm because as a zerg, i cannot see the progress of larvae production while i'm away from my hatches and muta microing, and that is considered spam? the usefulness/uselessness of some "spam" actions are very debatable. | ||
popzags
Poland604 Posts
Have your hotkeys mapped optimally and learn to eyeroll fluently between main screen, resource counter and minimap. Also, for many people spamming high APM early on is very important, as it allows them to maintain the proper tempo of playing right from the word go, so they don't have to go on a high gear when things heaten up. If the game ends and you feel pushed to your limits and exhausted and if your hands feel a little tight from the workload they did, you're on a right track. | ||
Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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Epoxide
Magic Woods9326 Posts
On April 29 2013 21:12 Sayle wrote: Listen to K-pop while you play. Also, eat kimchi. Forgot Pocari Sweat | ||
rauk
United States2228 Posts
On April 29 2013 21:12 Sayle wrote: Listen to K-pop while you play. Also, eat kimchi. wrong, god says that he needs to eat meat at least once a day | ||
vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On April 30 2013 05:29 rauk wrote: wrong, god says that he needs to eat meat at least once a day There is meat in kimchi Also, which god? + Show Spoiler + You had better be talking about Flash | ||
dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
Does a great job of explaining this stuff. | ||
Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
Your natural being attacked? Screen hotkey natural, hold down CTRL, click a worker, screen hotkey main, click on minerals. You could also select the mineralline a few times, scroll your mouse to the edge of the screen to your main, and click on the minerals, but that would result in slow and unclean mechanics. You might have 300 apm doing it, but its wrong mechanically. Some stragegies require more apm and attention allocation to different areas. My general advise in terms of APM training should be; Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM. | ||
Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
On May 03 2013 00:41 Eskiya23 wrote: Some stragegies require more apm and attention allocation to different areas. My general advise in terms of APM training should be; Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM. Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. | ||
greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Sayle wrote: Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. Thats like a thing korean progamer do: spam through all army hotkeys all the time with the positive effect of useles apm: you seen when one unit dies, even there is no alert, which means dt is killing your lings | ||
Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Sayle wrote: Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. Hi sayle ! Really loved your casting of TSL. Deliberately using more APM for one action doesnt make it faster in any way. Spamming move-command on a dropship is lots of APM for a singular action, while you should move-command once and check back a few times for any muta (thus allocating your apm to do other stuff), and at the time of your drop arriving for turrets etc. I guess what he meant was ''spam till you get 260 apm, then allocate them properly''. My statement of ''Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM.'' refers to the cleanup afterwards, when you realise as a player that you DO have the apm, but not the eapm. The idea is to do more eAPM (meaningfull actions ingame) instead of high APM (spamclicking, excessive selecting without giving a follow-up command etc) as you can see in BWrep stats. | ||
likeadiamond
Russian Federation7 Posts
Eapm for me is fast desigion making. So all game is fast thinking, not spamming. If u can make good desigins u will win. | ||
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On May 03 2013 06:39 likeadiamond wrote: u don't need fast apm at all, u need fast eapm. Eapm for me is fast desigion making. So all game is fast thinking, not spamming. If u can make good desigins u will win. so hard to raise eapm. my apm rose to 300 per game (so +50 increase) but my eapm only rose +10........fml. | ||
rauk
United States2228 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3121 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:50 Eskiya23 wrote: Hi sayle ! Really loved your casting of TSL. Deliberately using more APM for one action doesnt make it faster in any way. Spamming move-command on a dropship is lots of APM for a singular action, while you should move-command once and check back a few times for any muta (thus allocating your apm to do other stuff), and at the time of your drop arriving for turrets etc. I guess what he meant was ''spam till you get 260 apm, then allocate them properly''. My statement of ''Use less actions to do one thing, so you can do more things with the same APM.'' refers to the cleanup afterwards, when you realise as a player that you DO have the apm, but not the eapm. The idea is to do more eAPM (meaningfull actions ingame) instead of high APM (spamclicking, excessive selecting without giving a follow-up command etc) as you can see in BWrep stats. Sorry but i have to disagree completely. I can see where your coming from but your missing a few pieces. EAPM vs APM, when you are trying to raise your eapm it is verry important to have a large buffer on your apm. ofc it can be done without. but it just takes a fuck ton of extra time to get the same eapm. Eapm is in the mind. it is not in the hand speed. well ofc to a certain degree, but for the most part the thing that makes you have a high eapm is multitasking. making depos making probes and sending them to the minerals. which can be easily done with a low eapm of 80 orso. but when you get to the later stages of the game. it is much easier to start doing 3/4 extra things like drops, counter attacks ect when you already have the apm simpely becouse your hands are already in motion. this is a huge deal when you have to do 6 diffrent things at onces. like macro, move army in the center, transfer workers, making extra production/static defence, checking upgrades, reposistion your unhotkeyed army and harras. thats a big list of what you have to do at onces. its alot easier when you have hands already in motion to do all these things to if you don't. also the fact that your hands are having nothing will natrualy lead to searching for more stuff to do. the best example would be jaedong or flash, they both have around 400 apm, but 200-250 eapm. the reason why they can get that high of an eapm is becouse of the incredable high apm. yea maby you will only get 10-30 eapm extra for each 80 apm you get after 200+ orsomething. but when you keep staking it it will make a HUGE diffrence. | ||
likeadiamond
Russian Federation7 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:02 Golgotha wrote: so hard to raise eapm. my apm rose to 300 per game (so +50 increase) but my eapm only rose +10........fml. just try to think when u play. Untill all game u have a choose what to do - like push or not push, build or not build and u must do this fast. Good players can do this, bad players not. U may have 300 apm and 10 good desigions in the game, pro have same 300 apm. but he has much more good desigions then u. Oh, i forget to say about my favorite example of "Good desigions" - and he name is Movie - he had about 210 - 250 apm - and he was in the final of osl. Of corse all pro players has the same lvl of the good desigions making, so just choose what u do. Don't be stupid and u will win i think. | ||
numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
But it really depends on you as a player and where you're at currently. I don't think you should look at it like APM is a requirement to do certain things. Rather, you practice being able to do certain things and APM will naturally get higher. Focus on some area you are lacking and really challenge yourself. I liked muta builds, like I said, to force me to constantly micro while doing my build. I also liked sair/reaver or other multiple small engagement builds to train multitasking. Stray away from what you're comfortable doing to win and play a strategy that requires higher APM. | ||
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On May 03 2013 10:54 rauk wrote: Secret to raising eapmis to just 1a2a3a your army as much as possible. Doesn't matter what else you're doing as long as you keep on going 1a2a3a to random places your eapm goes I just tried this and my eapm rose by another 10. Wow, thank you. This was my highest ever eapm! | ||
Eskiya23
Netherlands105 Posts
On May 03 2013 20:36 sabas123 wrote: Sorry but i have to disagree completely. I can see where your coming from but your missing a few pieces. EAPM vs APM, when you are trying to raise your eapm it is verry important to have a large buffer on your apm. ofc it can be done without. but it just takes a fuck ton of extra time to get the same eapm. Eapm is in the mind. it is not in the hand speed. well ofc to a certain degree, but for the most part the thing that makes you have a high eapm is multitasking. making depos making probes and sending them to the minerals. which can be easily done with a low eapm of 80 orso. but when you get to the later stages of the game. it is much easier to start doing 3/4 extra things like drops, counter attacks ect when you already have the apm simpely becouse your hands are already in motion. this is a huge deal when you have to do 6 diffrent things at onces. like macro, move army in the center, transfer workers, making extra production/static defence, checking upgrades, reposistion your unhotkeyed army and harras. thats a big list of what you have to do at onces. its alot easier when you have hands already in motion to do all these things to if you don't. also the fact that your hands are having nothing will natrualy lead to searching for more stuff to do. the best example would be jaedong or flash, they both have around 400 apm, but 200-250 eapm. the reason why they can get that high of an eapm is becouse of the incredable high apm. yea maby you will only get 10-30 eapm extra for each 80 apm you get after 200+ orsomething. but when you keep staking it it will make a HUGE diffrence. You are basically echoing me. Yes, you do need high apm to do 6 things (''like macro, move army in the center, transfer workers, making extra production/static defence, checking upgrades, reposistion your unhotkeyed army and harras''). The difference between a regular ladder-Terran and Flash is what puts an end to this apm vs eapm discussion. Flash has 400 something apm, and analysis of his apm allocation showed that 60 of that apm was in ''macro''. Normal Terrans spam apm, they do meaningless actions, redundant actions and just inefficient actions. Flash on the other hand, puts the macro on autopilot, so he can allocate apm in unit control, multitask, drops, marine control and mine control. Clean and mechanically sound APM allocation is what I stand for. Surely, as your apm goes up your eapm goes up too, but in diminishing returns. I think there is a fine line between apm and eapm, to me it has always been the ratio of what you want to do, and how many actions you put in to make it happen (efficiency). | ||
iFU.pauline
France1388 Posts
On May 03 2013 01:36 Sayle wrote: Day9's advice is actually the complete opposite. He says you should deliberately try to use more APM even if you're not accomplishing anything with it, then you'll slowly find more useful things to do with the increased APM. its what i did, it works, just spam doing nothing, sooner or later you'll find a way to make it useful. | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
just strive to play clean. use all the options you have. i bet there are very few foreign players who regularly use all 10 ctrl groups and the 3 locations they have at their disposal. breaking inefficient habits and establishing efficient ones is the most important thing once you have basic understanding of build orders. i can have sick eapm on a good day and i am basically in a state of constant inactivity. i regularly come back after not playing a single bw game for months and i'm in okay shape after 3 games in each matchup. i think muscle memory and efficient, consciously constructed gameplay habits are the key here, not some arbitrary increase in meaningless numbers. higher eapm should be a side-effect of improvement, not a goal in itself. plus for example you can play flawless really high level macro pvt with 150 eapm, whereas you can enjoy getting your ass handed to you by C- zergs trying to go late game bio tvz with that same number. ideal apm is just way too situational, and fundamentally flawed as a general indicator. (i think) | ||
Falling
Canada10904 Posts
just strive to play clean. use all the options you have. i bet there are very few foreign players who regularly use all 10 ctrl groups and the 3 locations they have at their disposal This was actually a suprising discovery for me when reffing TLS games and then afterwards I ran them through bwcharts to look at their hotkeys. Lots of players vastly superior to me use no more than 5-6 of their control groups whereas I have always been trying to incorporate in all 10 as I've slowly been getting faster. | ||
Biff The Understudy
France7653 Posts
It helped me a lot. Do it in slow motion, very clean first, and then again and again while increasing the speed. You get the right patterns into your fingers, and, most important, your brain. | ||
arb
Noobville17915 Posts
just make yourself play faster and do extra shit and it'll rise on its own as you get better | ||
wimpwimpwimp
153 Posts
a) spam to get the capacity needed to do more stuff some time in the future. b) streamline your mechanics so you can do what you need to be doing more efficiently - again with the capacity to be able to do more as a result. c) focus on the stuff you need to be doing - and do it. Build workers and move them to minerals, macro, scout, lay mines, move army around, get your tech and depots - and notice where you forget to do this stuff, for example macro slipping during battles. If you can do everything you need to be doing to execute a given strategy, you have sufficient eapm. One last idea could be increasing your physical fitness. If you are out of shape you probably won´t be able to sit on your ass for a long time performing well in a game as demanding as scbw. | ||
BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On May 08 2013 02:59 arb wrote: I dunno my most recent game was 270 APM 160 eAPM, My ratio used to be alot worse than that, i think you should really just make yourself do extra un-needed things but do more than just spam hotkeys, like constantly check how many workers you got, always be making units, if youre terran/protoss queue up a unit just before your current ones finish(which you should be doing anyway) just make yourself play faster and do extra shit and it'll rise on its own as you get better Super important in general, you have so many more resources if you dont queue in excess. If you think about it a third dragoon on queue for 4 gates is an expand and an upgrade. I personally think you dont need a high apm unless you are trying to do a high apm strat, micro internsive. For me, its just a matter of getting an effiecient apm, and using the extra time to make tactical, macro desicions. Mo bases = more thing to use your apm on! @ OP Now that I think about ZvP apm is pretty important, but that can be counteracted with good tactics, flanking and such. Do you have any replays we could look at? If you are losing units due to storms and retreating you should improve your macro to allow more time for micro desicions. | ||
Rlentless
Hong Kong322 Posts
This kind of stuff only happens in my TvZs. All I remember doing is constant switching from my base, my army and then my expansions. Looking at my actions in replays I do not pay full attention for more than 5 seconds in one area during the late game. I don't really remember how I gained that kind of APM. The earliest replay I have with 200+ eapm was more than half a year ago which coincides with me starting to mass watch streams from afreeca. Maybe I started copying their style...^^ So you don't necessarily have to be a pro. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On May 08 2013 04:58 Rlentless wrote: This kind of stuff only happens in my TvZs. All I remember doing is constant switching from my base, my army and then my expansions. Looking at my actions in replays I do not pay full attention for more than 5 seconds in one area during the late game. I don't really remember how I gained that kind of APM. The earliest replay I have with 200+ eapm was more than half a year ago which coincides with me starting to mass watch streams from afreeca. Maybe I started copying their style...^^ So you don't necessarily have to be a pro. holy...... 210 eapm O___________O | ||
kill619
United States212 Posts
Sc2 only player here, what's the average? I know for starcraft 2 that would be insane but I would imagine, since brood war literally has more stuff to do. it's slightly less ridiculous that I'm thinking. | ||
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On May 08 2013 04:58 Rlentless wrote: This kind of stuff only happens in my TvZs. All I remember doing is constant switching from my base, my army and then my expansions. Looking at my actions in replays I do not pay full attention for more than 5 seconds in one area during the late game. I don't really remember how I gained that kind of APM. The earliest replay I have with 200+ eapm was more than half a year ago which coincides with me starting to mass watch streams from afreeca. Maybe I started copying their style...^^ So you don't necessarily have to be a pro. damn. u are fast. will u play in the TSL? | ||
vndestiny
Singapore3437 Posts
On May 08 2013 10:59 kill619 wrote: Sc2 only player here, what's the average? I know for starcraft 2 that would be insane but I would imagine, since brood war literally has more stuff to do. it's slightly less ridiculous that I'm thinking. For reference, from the JD replay pack Zimp the god and dsaqwe provided us a few days ago, JD has about 220 - 240 eapm depends on games. Oh and in the infamous replay of JD vs Flash on Tau Cross they both had exactly 235 eapm. | ||
rauk
United States2228 Posts
relentless is D+ lol On May 08 2013 10:59 kill619 wrote: Sc2 only player here, what's the average? I know for starcraft 2 that would be insane but I would imagine, since brood war literally has more stuff to do. it's slightly less ridiculous that I'm thinking. koreans are around like... 180-200 eapm? top foreigners are generally around 150-160 eapm i think. koreans tend to be more mechanically focused anyways | ||
Kyuhyuck
Korea (South)40 Posts
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L_Master
United States7946 Posts
Yea, that about sums up my reaction. | ||
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
in order to increase eAPM, u 1a2a3a your army between 2 points which are about 1 screen apart from each other. i think using scv to build something, but cancelling it with moving the scv away with right click before it reaches building place should also increase eAPM. for me, APM had always more value than eAPM, but dont forget that APM/eAPM is not skill related. | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
without further ado, here it goes: "GOSU" REVEALS TOP SECRET WAY TO INCREASE APM/EAPM!!! FOLLOW THIS 1 EASY STEP TO INCREASE YOUR OWN!!! JUST CLICK THE SPOILER TAG BELOW AND LEARN HOW TO INCREASE YOUR APM/EAPM FOR FREE!!! + Show Spoiler + Step 1: Play in lag. Step 2 (optional): Pat yourself on the back! Preferably post pictures. OK SO THERE YOU HAVE IT, A SIMPLE AND EASY WAY TO INCREASE YOUR APM/EAPM! I HOPE IT WAS HELPFUL. PLEASE POST STORIES ABOUT HOW THIS CHANGED YOUR LIFE! | ||
traceurling
United States1240 Posts
On May 08 2013 22:14 skzlime wrote: in truth i didn't want to share this with the masses, but now i realise it's not fair to keep it a secret any longer, so... without further ado, here it goes: "GOSU" REVEALS TOP SECRET WAY TO INCREASE APM/EAPM!!! FOLLOW THIS 1 EASY STEP TO INCREASE YOUR OWN!!! JUST CLICK THE SPOILER TAG BELOW AND LEARN HOW TO INCREASE YOUR APM/EAPM FOR FREE!!! + Show Spoiler + Step 1: Play in lag. Step 2 (optional): Pat yourself on the back! Preferably post pictures. OK SO THERE YOU HAVE IT, A SIMPLE AND EASY WAY TO INCREASE YOUR APM/EAPM! I HOPE IT WAS HELPFUL. PLEASE POST STORIES ABOUT HOW THIS CHANGED YOUR LIFE! I did that once, 8 player game on school computers and I was the only one not lagging so I had a field day spamming...I was at 1000 apm according to the chaos launcher plugin for the first few minutes until everyone stopped lagging | ||
Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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iG.Arcneon
Finland333 Posts
On April 25 2013 02:01 traceurling wrote: I was talking with Bakuryu about this and I hope I recall it correctly, but it was something along the lines of just know your build andwhat you're doing, and your APM will just increase to match what you need...idk if I said that properly. :\ Kinda agree with this alot. Atleast for me, it goes very much like, normal apm prolly around 200-300, no clue about eapm, but when I play a faster, strong player than what I am, I always find in game that "shit he's ahead" and it just instantly MAKES me move faster than in normal games where I have more time to think. The problem with most foreigners who are really fast is that they really dont have good game plans after all, so that makes them weak against smart players so its not all that black & white. I'd even say that vs foreigners you really need good game plans and you will get to the top. Also works vs a lot of koreans, but the top side of koreans (which are many still!), you really do need to be fast with everything while having a good game plan, otherwise you just get run over ^^ | ||
Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
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Potling
Norway298 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
APM isn't skill, but it's not an invalid approach to becoming better. Of course knowing what you're doing is far more important in terms of winning games and you can get pretty far without ever increasing your APM much past 150. But if you were the type of person crazy enough to want to take a game off a Korean pro at WCG, stuff like this wasn't totally inconsequential. For an ordinary player who really wants to get better, your time is best spent truly studying strategies and really getting a handle on the inner workings and why things work and why you make exceptions etc. It actually involves quite a lot of time outside of the game (tho not necessarily on the forums lol). | ||
Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On April 30 2013 09:06 vOdToasT wrote: There is meat in kimchi Also, which god? + Show Spoiler + You had better be talking about Flash You do know how much meat that boy eats right? He wouldn't preach about anything else + Show Spoiler + You had better be getting that before opening spoiler Raising your APM for the sake of raising it is redundant, bordering on stupid, for one I'm about the same speed as Bakuryu to take an example (150-170ish), and I've found myself being able to 1) Micro better 2) Macro better 3) Catch drops etc better without raising my apm at all from the times where I couldn't break C- (noways I could probally hit low C or high C-? Haven't really played much) | ||
PUPATREE
340 Posts
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
On May 10 2013 07:23 PUPATREE wrote: i wonder if we'll ever stop seeing threads like these hopefully not? | ||
Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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Stratos
Czech Republic6104 Posts
bwchart has got a lot of nice graphs and pictures representing the way you distribute your hotkeys and use them, your buildorder and stuff like that. bwrepinfo has got the eAPM that I believe bwchart is lacking. | ||
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
On May 10 2013 07:23 PUPATREE wrote: i wonder if we'll ever stop seeing threads like these its more likely that hell will freeze On May 10 2013 07:49 Reason wrote: What are you guys using to measure APM these days? i only use bwchart, but i normally only check the build order or hotkey tab. bwrepinfo doesnt seem useful for me. technically i dont even check my apm because it wont help me get better. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On May 10 2013 18:14 Bakuryu wrote: its more likely that hell will freeze i only use bwchart, but i normally only check the build order or hotkey tab. bwrepinfo doesnt seem useful for me. technically i dont even check my apm because it wont help me get better. <3 So true. Can't stop myself from replying though... | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
On April 26 2013 21:57 sabas123 wrote: by playing ALOT also force your self to constatly have some amount of apm in the game, like have apm alert for 300 or something. | ||
BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
On May 10 2013 07:23 PUPATREE wrote: i wonder if we'll ever stop seeing threads like these At least we know people are trying to play. | ||
tenacity
1587 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
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hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
Yes! Hyperbole and a half! | ||
tokinho
United States777 Posts
On May 09 2013 06:35 Chef wrote: Day9 and many other high level foreigners used to say that it's okay to spam at first to increase your APM. The point is to get your hands used to clicking that much. You will play worse at first, and then it will become comfortable after awhile. After that the key to becoming good is actually making use of those extra actions, turning them from spam into concentration and techniques that your hands would otherwise be to used to moving too slowly to accommodate. APM isn't skill, but it's not an invalid approach to becoming better. Of course knowing what you're doing is far more important in terms of winning games and you can get pretty far without ever increasing your APM much past 150. But if you were the type of person crazy enough to want to take a game off a Korean pro at WCG, stuff like this wasn't totally inconsequential. For an ordinary player who really wants to get better, your time is best spent truly studying strategies and really getting a handle on the inner workings and why things work and why you make exceptions etc. It actually involves quite a lot of time outside of the game (tho not necessarily on the forums lol). I agree with Chef. Best way to learn is to play and look at replays. But, best way to increase eapm, APM alerts and a lot of games. Kind of like running. You say I want to run a faster mile, but you don't have more than two miles endurance. To get pro EAPM means you have to start playing 30-40 games a day. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On June 01 2013 02:17 tokinho wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 09 2013 06:35 Chef wrote: Day9 and many other high level foreigners used to say that it's okay to spam at first to increase your APM. The point is to get your hands used to clicking that much. You will play worse at first, and then it will become comfortable after awhile. After that the key to becoming good is actually making use of those extra actions, turning them from spam into concentration and techniques that your hands would otherwise be to used to moving too slowly to accommodate. APM isn't skill, but it's not an invalid approach to becoming better. Of course knowing what you're doing is far more important in terms of winning games and you can get pretty far without ever increasing your APM much past 150. But if you were the type of person crazy enough to want to take a game off a Korean pro at WCG, stuff like this wasn't totally inconsequential. For an ordinary player who really wants to get better, your time is best spent truly studying strategies and really getting a handle on the inner workings and why things work and why you make exceptions etc. It actually involves quite a lot of time outside of the game (tho not necessarily on the forums lol). I agree with Chef. Best way to learn is to play and look at replays. But, best way to increase eapm, APM alerts and a lot of games. Kind of like running. You say I want to run a faster mile, but you don't have more than two miles endurance. To get pro EAPM means you have to start playing 30-40 games a day. maybe not. some guys are talented. i know reps)izzy 300 apm 200 eapm and he almost never play and never pass c- Rank ;p | ||
hp.Shell
United States2527 Posts
Spamming at the beginning definitely helps. | ||
tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 01 2013 03:28 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: maybe not. some guys are talented. i know reps)izzy 300 apm 200 eapm and he almost never play and never pass c- Rank ;p How is that possible? Simply with that speed and macro u should be able to overrun everyone until C or sth | ||
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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UPro-BW
81 Posts
On June 01 2013 17:33 tenacity wrote: How is that possible? Simply with that speed and macro u should be able to overrun everyone until C or sth because 300 apm isn't gonna help you at late game tvp or tvz if you make bad decisions, you will be suprised how effective C users are. | ||
tenacity
1587 Posts
but how can u get 200 eapm? just doing stupid shit? I dont think so ..... Maybe the skill level has increased so much on iccup that nowadays ppl are super good @ C. I just want to understand it reps please ... | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
you get 200 eapm low redundancy by playing really cleanly and precisely, with decent multitask. | ||
tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 01 2013 22:19 skzlime wrote: clarification: Bizzy is not C level, he just plays so little that he can't rank up beyond C in 3 months. you get 200 eapm low redundancy by playing really cleanly and precisely, with decent multitask. my question was rather rhetorical. im tired of ppl saying "apm/eapm" doesn't mean anything. it may be true in some cases but i think it (eapm in particular) is a good indicator nevertheless. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On June 01 2013 22:19 skzlime wrote: clarification: Bizzy is not C level, he just plays so little that he can't rank up beyond C in 3 months. you get 200 eapm low redundancy by playing really cleanly and precisely, with decent multitask. in the case u no trolling. http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/reps)izzy.html from russia a school boy that is very very fast. but not really good ;; | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 02 2013 04:07 skzlime wrote: you can only see it in actual gameplay. exactly. not sure whether that Bakuryu guy is trolling or not though | ||
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13774 Posts
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skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
in my opinion apm cannot be used as a general indicator of skill, but a matchup specific one at best. if one wants to use it to evaluate skill at all cost, one must take into account the actual game, since it is possible to have the same X apm while for example doing a BBS and while macroing happily on 8 raxes and managing 5 ctrl groups of units out on the map. obviously in one of these cases the player in question will either have an excess of apm, which accomplishes nothing other than "establishing/keeping the pace for later", or a lack of it to have good execution depending on the value of X, since the two scenarios greatly differ in difficulty. moving on, we agree that even eapm can be faked with certain actions. it might not be done consciously, but that doesn't matter in this case. what this means is that two players with the exact same eapm in the same matchup with the same positions, build orders and decision making against the same opponent might play differently. how can such an indicator have any accuracy? so again, we must see the actual game to be sure. to give a really clear example, when i play an agressive style of tvp i have the same eapm as Fantasy. does that even mean anything? quite obviously, the answer is LOL the game is just too complex for a single shaky indicator that doesn't even mean anything in itself to give ANY sort of perspective on a player's skill. do really good players generally have high apm/eapm? mostly yes. is anyone with high apm/eapm good? fuck no. i think striving for improvement through forcibly increasing apm is misguided, because i have done it before, and it's not how i got "good". | ||
tenacity
1587 Posts
On June 02 2013 18:16 skzlime wrote: in short, yes. there really is no more to be said. i really don't understand what you are asking Baku (i don't mean the question itself), since i thought my very first post in this thread already answered this. i believe this debate and so the following post to be utterly meaningless, but i'll try to elaborate with examples. in my opinion apm cannot be used as a general indicator of skill, but a matchup specific one at best. if one wants to use it to evaluate skill at all cost, one must take into account the actual game, since it is possible to have the same X apm while for example doing a BBS and while macroing happily on 8 raxes and managing 5 ctrl groups of units out on the map. obviously in one of these cases the player in question will either have an excess of apm, which accomplishes nothing other than "establishing/keeping the pace for later", or a lack of it to have good execution depending on the value of X, since the two scenarios greatly differ in difficulty. moving on, we agree that even eapm can be faked with certain actions. it might not be done consciously, but that doesn't matter in this case. what this means is that two players with the exact same eapm in the same matchup with the same positions, build orders and decision making against the same opponent might play differently. how can such an indicator have any accuracy? so again, we must see the actual game to be sure. to give a really clear example, when i play an agressive style of tvp i have the same eapm as Fantasy. does that even mean anything? quite obviously, the answer is LOL the game is just too complex for a single shaky indicator that doesn't even mean anything in itself to give ANY sort of perspective on a player's skill. do really good players generally have high apm/eapm? mostly yes. is anyone with high apm/eapm good? fuck no. i think striving for improvement through forcibly increasing apm is misguided, because i have done it before, and it's not how i got "good". beautiful post, thanks! | ||
Bakuryu
Germany1065 Posts
i agree with everything u said. im not sure if we talk past each other, but my question is still unsolved. "how can u see apm in the gameplay?" i may be nitpicking, but for me, when im playing vs somebody, i normally cant see apm in his gameplay. the thing i see is the "minimum actions required to do what i see him doing and how effective they are", while for me, apm means the "maximum actions possible to make on average (since its actions per minute)" so more or less i can see the minimum of what he is doing, but his actual apm could be anything above that. yeah that still sound like im seeing eapm. but eapm is still an average thing, and eapm also doesnt tell me anything about the effectiveness of the actions in the actual game. or to word it differently, u dont see the amount of input he is doing, u see the result of those inputs. (unless u watch a fpvod[or best case scenario when u sit next to him and see him press buttons] then u can also see apm) im sry if that sounds stupid, but i wanted to explain how i see it. | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6321 Posts
On June 03 2013 02:20 Bakuryu wrote: i like how u can read my mind and write exactly that what i wanted to write after u gave me a response to my question.^^ i agree with everything u said. im not sure if we talk past each other, but my question is still unsolved. "how can u see apm in the gameplay?" i may be nitpicking, but for me, when im playing vs somebody, i normally cant see apm in his gameplay. the thing i see is the "minimum actions required to do what i see him doing and how effective they are", while for me, apm means the "maximum actions possible to make on average (since its actions per minute)" so more or less i can see the minimum of what he is doing, but his actual apm could be anything above that. yeah that still sound like im seeing eapm. but eapm is still an average thing, and eapm also doesnt tell me anything about the effectiveness of the actions in the actual game. or to word it differently, u dont see the amount of input he is doing, u see the result of those inputs. (unless u watch a fpvod[or best case scenario when u sit next to him and see him press buttons] then u can also see apm) im sry if that sounds stupid, but i wanted to explain how i see it. i think best example is Marwin and cosy. In marwin play is really hard to match multitask with him. he is everywhere.he forcé u to not only be fast but also check all ur places at once.and for example cosy. 600 apm guy 200 eapm.people can think well ye this guy epic but not.he just move muta here and there and u can see how he not only cant Split mutas but miss everything in the map.im not sure if this answer ur question ;; | ||
skzlime
Hungary462 Posts
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Kyuhyuck
Korea (South)40 Posts
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