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I agree wall still messed up. First factory was super late. Your SCVs just stood there for what felt like an eternity at the beginning lol.
Your academy was really late! I'm surprised he didn't punish you with DTs earlier in the game.
This game was really weird though. Looked like a practice casual game. The guy was pumping out scouts and wasn't even bothering to build probes at his expansions as if to even the fight.
Your wall & late factory would get you killed against an aggressive player. TvT fast vulture speed/mines would straight up kill you. TvP quick DTs, 2 gate range with pressure and etc.
Also his reavers did way too much damage to your economy! Gotta get them turrets up quicker around your base to limit his harass potential. --- On a positive note: You're building more vultures & tanks
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Best way to go is learning Flash armory build. Your timing push depends on your first scan. You don't use your scan to scout 3rd expansion, because you have vulture/mines for doing it. First scan goes to his main, if u see 3-4 gates and templar archives and stargate, it means he is going to make 2 base arbiter tech and you should start your push, but make it into contain with turrets just before entrance to his main. If number of gates is same, and there is no tech, it means that he for sure built fast 3rd base, even if you didn't scout it with vultures (he could possibly place it in empty starting location) and you should crash him with your 3 fact units. If number of gates is 6-7. Than you just focusing on slowly taking 3rd base and do not push (toss is going for some crazy mass 2 base opening).
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Above post is very good.
Also if you ever see protoss is on same gate count as you have factories, throw a few facts down and kill his ass. He is either teching or expoing too greedy (this is one of the advantages of faster academy builds).
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OK.... Ill try to give you some points and ideas based on what i learned in TvP. As an informative Note, I am a Protoss player who does not like PvP, thus with my friends who play P, i play T.
Originally i got owned extreamly hard, and it took me around a month to start coming back with a bang. Here are the the things I learned about TvP from both the Terran and protoss perspective:
A) Protoss relay A LOT on their observers. They need them to estimate timings, see army movements and obviously defuse mines. It is crucial to deny as much of that vision as possible, while investing in it as little as possible (Flash used to start with 3 goliaths and fast ups/vesel. This might seem like a crazy opening due to the fact that he goes fast 3rd base, but if the obs of the toss can be sniped at any given time, mines give extra room. Also it limits DT/Reaver builds severly).
B) Scan timings are crucial. Especialy in the first 10 minutes of the game. Flash ahd this mapped out almost to perfection (almost, costed him one game), and he would not invest in things not required based on the information his scan revealed. Learning scan timing is hard however due to it actually beeing dependand on your own.
C) Overall matchup understanding: When to go out with vultures and when to not. When to start your first push and how to do it. How to set up your base for efficiency. All those are learned from watching replays of people better than you, and by practice. There is not an easy way around it.
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An eagle eye can deal with observers without having vessel. Also proper turrets positioning is crucial. On lower levels it is very good to play 1-2 medics with optical flare and blind the ones observers, which are grouped with protoss units. They often don't see or get it, they lost their vision on mines.
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every real terran could beat himself in pvt.
I get your point, but that doesn't quite hold true all the way to the top. If you look at SOSPA games protoss actually holds only a 46.3% WR against terran.
As you get way good the match up begins to even out and at truly top level may begin to favor terran is anything. Obviously different ballgame at normal people ranks.
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every real terran could beat himself in pvt.
Lol.
What a pile of bullshit.
Terran has a high skill ceiling and a high skill floor. Protoss has a high skill ceiling, but a low skill floor.
Only a novice level Terran could beat himself with Protoss. Once you have ascended past the floor, it doesn't matter where it lies. The more you master the race, and the higher your skill level becomes, the less likely you would be to beat yourself with an easier race - because you are no longer standing on the skill floor. It is irrelevant.
Do you think Flash in 2010 would beat himself in PvT? If you do, I say that you are wrong. He mastered Terran, not Protoss - although he would surely be good with Protoss. Just not as good as with Terran.
It's not 2007 any more. PvT is no longer slightly P favoured on most maps. Terrans are no longer struggling against fast carrier builds. Stop whining.
Even back then, whining was pathetic. Try to solve the problem at hand (like Flash and co. solved it in 2007) or switch race. Those are your options. Whining is not necessary.
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My toss can take games off of terrans around my level
I don't think any player thinks that pvt/tvp is imbalanced at a pro level though.
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On September 23 2014 18:55 vOdToasT wrote: What a pile of bullshit.
Terran has a high skill ceiling and a high skill floor. Protoss has a high skill ceiling, but a low skill floor.
Yeah? What rank are you? Only B+?
... uh ...
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On September 24 2014 03:05 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2014 18:55 vOdToasT wrote: What a pile of bullshit.
Terran has a high skill ceiling and a high skill floor. Protoss has a high skill ceiling, but a low skill floor.
Yeah? What rank are you? Only B+? ... uh ...
"Every real Terran"
I'm a real Terran. Mong is a real Terran. The original poster is a real Terran.
Any one who currently uses Terran as his main race is a "real Terran".
Conclusion: Not every real Terran would defeat himself with Protoss.
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On September 13 2014 23:24 puppykiller wrote:
Also if you ever see protoss is on same gate count as you have factories, throw a few facts down and kill his ass. He is either teching or expoing too greedy (this is one of the advantages of faster academy builds). ...
This isn't even good advice....
Also, The only real way we will be able to test this theory is if someone can somehow clone vOdToasT and see if who would win in a fight, himself as Terran, or himself as Protoss..
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A protoss far better than you told me that trick.
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*pulls up chair, pops popcorn for incoming telecom comment*
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On September 26 2014 16:54 fearthequeen wrote: *pulls up chair, pops popcorn for incoming telecom comment*
DIS GON' BE GOOD
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On September 26 2014 15:01 puppykiller wrote: A protoss far better than you told me that trick.
so about that 8 factory off 2 base game you played one time...
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Gotta agree with Telecom; that doesn't seem like very good advice. Sure, they're probably teching or expoing if they don't have many gateways, but throwing down factories shouldn't beat either of those things. You're just deciding to go all in, and probably too late if you're waiting for new factories to finish before attacking. Either you kill them outright, they get arbiters out and you're fucked, or they defend long enough for their expansion to kick in and then you're fucked.
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Idk guy who told me it was some B toss who hand only one loss to terran on his profile.
Obv you need acad, but its a ez way to beat a greedy toss if u open with an fe and follow up with a fact and an acad (and not a fast armory).
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That advice is just a generalization/simplification, no need to read into it too much. F.e. mid-game low gate count can be compensated by having a reaver or dts, and so on. The 1.5x gateway-to-factory rule is just a simplification for unit strength and production speed over time, but it doesn't account for the current army comparison, push time, tech, map and positioning, etc.
It is a decent guiding factor for beginners, though.
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