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http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=56025
so. I played some bm guy. shiiiiiiiiiiiii. I just....he said "re"? after the game and i said qq/qq and he said "that was a joke." Ugh that's not....even in the middle of the game he goes 'You can't win." Fuuuuuu
but yah i think muta/queen/devourer/defiler would've been good....I don't know if there's a term coined for it. It's too borderline bm to warrant a iccup report. They're pretty understaffed too so it'll probably take 5 months for them to reply. What's that term. Cost effective zerg? Spellcaster Zerg? I knew a guy who was really good at a cost effective zerg style. If only he taught me before he retired. It's like the swarmhost/viper/spore colony style of zerg but it's tougher since you need to alternate between spellcasters quickly in fast succession.
JUSTICE EDIT: I came across this guy with another smurf that happened to be similar to the account I played him on, He asked "Are you [TLG]Depressed"? to which I replied no. He then asked me why am I depressed based on my then current iccup username DepressedOne. He opened 2 port wraith and I defended successfully. Then he did some Wraith Battlecruiser combo that almost caught me off guard but luckily I parasited one of his Wraiths earlier which gave me all the intel I needed. He did a similar style that he did with the scouts:he went lots of static defense for drops/hydra busts. I pulled through with some decisive hydralisk/queen/defiler/devourer/muta attacks. Once again, I repeat, justice has been served. DepressedOne out. He seems to have an affinity for air unit attacks. It looks like he's managed to get to C-/C with it which is....impressive.
Justice replay: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=56027
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When you have 11/13 make fast approach drones. always remember scout scout scout. Queens are good but slow not powerful for spells. Don't get distracted on game chat. Always make commitment moves don't hesitate. Ask for help whenever you lose, like hey give me tip on beating you. Watch top players of PvZ to see from different perspective, specially Free scouts strategies. Keep playing and playing and losing until it becomes second nature like brushing your teeth. Well that wrap it up all for now give more information later, but I am in a hurry have to go to work.
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As far as my experience goes from being an iccup admin, your complaint won't warrant a punishment more than 96 hour chatban. I'd be surprised if he even gets that.
Having been the victim of this kind of strat on more than one occasion, I can say that it works kind of like fighting sair/reaver, with the scouts facilitating the ground damage. Some of the elements of this style of play are the same:
- They need to get +1 air attack - They need to make a lot of cannons because their templar will be late - They won't have much of a ground force for awhile
Back when sair/reaver was a popular style, Zerg players would deal with it by getting drop before lair and doing a big hydralisk drop in the Protoss' main base as soon as possible. Later on, Zerg players started going +1 carapace and going mass muta/scourge against sair/reaver. I would not recommend either of these, because scouts are obviously a lot different than corsairs in terms of their armor and air-to-air attack.
The bad thing about facing scouts is that they will kill the fuck out of drones. Another bad thing for you is that spore colonies will not deter the scouts from doing a lot of damage. Spore colonies are something you can use, because unlike sair/reaver, where the reaver can just drop at a distance and siege down the spore or sunken colony, the scouts will have to deal with the spore colonies. If the scouts are small in numbers, then spore colonies may ward them off for a bit, but in larger numbers, scouts will eat through spore colonies, and on top of that, the spore colonies won't deal enough damage to scare the scouts away from your drones and buildings.
So, here are some recommendations that I would make:
- Upgrade your air armor all the way up to +3 - Upgrade burrow, so you can save your drones by burrowing them. You can also burrow zerglings around the map as spotters, and burrow hydralisks where they can pop up and hit the scouts. - If you know it's mass scouts, and you're still in the drone phase, keep making drones and place like 2-3 spore colonies at each base, including your main. - Go mass hydralisk with a few lurkers. - Don't go straight for drop. They will likely be expecting this, and it's more important to get hive first so you can get defilers and plague. Plague will take away 60% of the scouts' health. - This might seem silly, but I would recommend getting queens and using ensnare to slow the scouts down so your hydralisks can catch them. Otherwise, you can't chase down scouts.
If your opponent starts building gateway units, then the game will quickly turn into a fairly 'normal' game. The game can be a pain in the ass if the Protoss manages to have three bases, but is winnable if you deny a fourth base, and manage to take a fourth/fifth base, which varies on different maps, but you basically just need to send hydralisks + a defiler to defend the spot, and then put down the hatchery. You will still need to send a few overlords with the hydralisks because there is a chance there could be a dark templar in that location.
Stuff not to do:
- Don't go mass scourge. Just don't do it. Scouts can use patrol micro and slaughter them all! - Don't rush to greater spire. On paper, devourers are stronger than scouts, but you'd have to have a large number of devourers, plus upgrades. If the scouts have +1 attack, you'd need at least +1 air carapace or greater. If you're behind in upgrades, then your devourers won't fair well against the scouts if they focus fire on each devourer. Additionally, by the time you even get to greater spire, there will be way more scouts than a handful of devourers can handle, so you'd have to commit a lot of food supply to devourers, which are only good against air, so the Protoss gets gateway units, your greater spire will be not economically viable because psionic storms and dragoons are quite good against guardians and other Zerg air units. - I'd recommend not going ultra/ling for obvious reasons.
With all this being said, you will very rarely see people do this on the ladder. This scenario is much different than late-game carriers, because in that situation, you can use devourers and scourge and plague and everything in your arsenal. As an interesting side note: spore colonies are really bad against carriers, so I wouldn't bother investing much money into them. A bunch here and there may help when they're supported by other units, but going crazy and making 20 spores at one base probably won't do you much good.
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On October 01 2014 11:14 LuvMyCap wrote: Watch top players of PvZ to see from different perspective, specially Free scouts strategies. .
i think scout/DWsair/reaver with double robo and double/triple stargate is even more potent than the one shown in OP. If the toss have the proper micro to utilise DW and shuttle/reaver micro he can end the game very quickly especially if z makes a mistake with hydras. seen bisu and pusan troll with that before.
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On October 01 2014 11:46 ninazerg wrote:
- This might seem silly, but I would recommend getting queens and using ensnare to slow the scouts down so your hydralisks can catch them. Otherwise, you can't chase down scouts.
This might seem silly, but was actually used today by Killer in a game, i.e. ensnare followed by scourge attack. Game begins at: http://www.twitch.tv/snipealot2/b/573700717?t=7h02m35s and this attack is at http://www.twitch.tv/snipealot2/b/573700717?t=7h18m55s These were only couple of Scouts. I once remember seeing some pro playing vs foreigner with pure scouts (and a lot of them ).
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OP did use queens in the replay but it was ineffectual as the scouts mainly got away from the hydras/queens get killed.
Looking at it it was obvious that the toss was simply turtling behind cannons/reavers and harassing with scouts, only starting to build gateway/templars towards the end. Instead of all the useless hydras in the midgame OP could have make a full blown air army to deal with the scouts (ensnare plus devourer will slow down scout for scourge/muta to kill it), and when its withered down do a drop with hydras/ultras on the main base. OP also forgotten about the burrow upgrade in this game.
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Keep upgrades up, thats very important, especially ground carapace before you have swarm (scouts hit twice so each carapace is worth double in straight up engagements). Ignore air upgrades unless hes making corsairs, they're useless otherwise. Mass drones, get burrow, a few spores. Then mass hydras and make sure the toss isnt expanding. Depending on the map and what the toss is doing, if you defended well, you can go for a bust before toss has storm (try to do so while scouts aren't there). Use burrow to scout or protect hydras/drones from scouts. If you see you can't bust him, just make sure he cant expand, and tech to defilers (swarm/plague), while trying to somehow see if he's switching to ground army or maybe carriers. You might want to get 1 queen to parasite his scouts to see where they're going - if he doesn't use that scout, he's just wasted almost a nexus worth of money. Ensnare might be useful on very open maps, but otherwise it's useless. Scourge can be used only while the scouts are busy with something (fighting some hydras for example). Btw, the only way you're going to fight scouts straight up is if you attack the toss, or if he makes mistakes.
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He asked "Are you [TLG]Depressed"? to which I replied no. Why are you lying to people?
As for scouts hydras kill em easy.
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Start by getting three bases with as many drones on them as possible, as early as possible, without dying. Same mindset as always (unless you're going for a different kind of opening, like 3 hatch hydra or anything like that).
But basically, just do your normal opening. In this text I will assume that you try to invest as much in to economy as possible.
After you have your three bases that you've been making drones for for a while, the time to defend yourself will come. In this case, you will be defending yourself vs scouts (and maybe some zealots before then).
I present to you two options:
1. Hydralisks
With this option, you will get a bunch of spore colonies and hydralisks at every base. Once you are safe, you make more drones and expand again. Then you make more hydralisks and spore colonies. Spread out your hydralisks - enough so that each hydralisk army can repel his scouts, but also so that many areas are covered.
Eventually, you should stop having your hydralisks at your actual bases, and move out on the map. If you have the natural expansion of top right as your third base, move some hydralisks to the 12 o clock base. Move around the middle of the map. All while making more hydralisks, and sometimes drones and more expansions.
Eventually, you get defilers with plague and swarm.
Burrow is very good to get with this style eventually. Burrow hydralisks in smart places on the map, and when he flies over them, unburrow and ambush.
2. Mutalisks, scourge, and queens.
The same idea as with the hydralisks applies, but you use different units. You start out with mutalisks and scourge. Then you add some queens for ensnare. Just keep making mutas, scourge, and drones. Don't make too many scourge for too long! They become worse with time due to the scout speed upgrade, which lets him patrol micro and kite them. Just mass mutalisks with air upgrades and some queens with ensnare. Scourge are great in the early game before there are too many scouts, and before they have the speed upgrade, but eventually they are only useful as support for mutalisks. And you want mostly mutalisks, not too many scourge. Something like 36 mutalisks, 12 scourge, and 2 queens, is a good amount to have at a certain point.
Eventually, if he is still making air units, you get defilers and devourers.
The rest is Zerg fundamentals. Knowing when to make drones, how many, and when to expand. Scouting for expansions, denying them with zerglings. Macro. Micro.
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Turtling with static defense and running around with air units ain't that impressive.
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On October 03 2014 10:21 Probemicro wrote: Turtling with static defense and running around with air units ain't that impressive.
You would hate watching ZvT then.
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On October 03 2014 11:03 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 10:21 Probemicro wrote: Turtling with static defense and running around with air units ain't that impressive. You would hate watching ZvT then.
A typical Iccup match isn't exactly made for great watching, especially when you have opponents like in the replay merely hiding behind cannons/reavers and running around with groups of scouts almost the entire game. That would be a laughing stork at higher levels (Fish)
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On October 03 2014 11:18 Probemicro wrote: A typical Iccup match isn't exactly made for great watching, especially when you have opponents like in the replay merely hiding behind cannons/reavers and running around with groups of scouts almost the entire game. That would be a laughing stork at higher levels (Fish) What do you mean by that? That stork would easily win against such a strategy?
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On October 03 2014 18:11 ExBoshy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 11:18 Probemicro wrote: A typical Iccup match isn't exactly made for great watching, especially when you have opponents like in the replay merely hiding behind cannons/reavers and running around with groups of scouts almost the entire game. That would be a laughing stork at higher levels (Fish) What do you mean by that? That stork would easily win against such a strategy?
just a pun lol
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On October 03 2014 11:18 Probemicro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2014 11:03 ninazerg wrote:On October 03 2014 10:21 Probemicro wrote: Turtling with static defense and running around with air units ain't that impressive. You would hate watching ZvT then. A typical Iccup match isn't exactly made for great watching, especially when you have opponents like in the replay merely hiding behind cannons/reavers and running around with groups of scouts almost the entire game. That would be a laughing stork at higher levels (Fish)
That was exactly what Bisu did :D
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Have just watched the replay with scouts. Such an unusual style! Using rarely seen (scouts, dark archons) units and spells (hallucination, mind control) to such an extent. Awesome that there are people who think outside of the box and don't follow strict rules of a certain match-up (and succeed at the same time!)
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On January 10 2015 15:10 GreenWillow wrote: Have just watched the replay with scouts. Such an unusual style! Using rarely seen (scouts, dark archons) units and spells (hallucination, mind control) to such an extent. Awesome that there are people who think outside of the box and don't follow strict rules of a certain match-up (and succeed at the same time!)
Too bad it was vs a noob like Ty2 so it doesn't mean much.
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Typical player: "What is this 'Scout' unit you speak of?"
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Please don't bump old threads when your not adding any value to the discussion.
Also scouts aren't that uncommon, it gets used a lot for trolling.
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On January 10 2015 20:35 sabas123 wrote: Please don't bump old threads when your not adding any value to the discussion.
Also scouts aren't that uncommon, it gets used a lot for trolling. Three hours after the previous post is a 'bump'? Technically, but, c'mon. Also, technically, you bumped the thread too.
Y'know, many ppl DO make humorous comments in threads. I hear they do that on the internet sometimes.... and on TL as well. Go yell at all of those ppl too, some were even in this thread before you and I bumped it by a few hours (unless funny Stork and Bisu comments are 'serious business'?).
Finally, I never see scouts. I forget what they look like, almost. I'm considering hiring a police sketch artist to talk to the last person who's seen one, and/or putting out a milk carton with a 'Have You Seen Me?' photo on it.
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