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Hello. There is one guy, who is 2 ranks higher than me. He performs pretty strong for all the 3 races, and I play protoss. We've played lots of games, and only twice I was kinda close to win, but never won. His multitasking is really impressive, he usually goes some micro-oriented builds, making strong economy at the same time. He always manages to gather a bigger and better-composed army, foresees my moves (e.g. builds proxy-pylons in the ways I want to sectretly go through, or places turrets and tanks when I'm trying to drop dts at his main, etc.). I know that I have to practice to get better and eventually beat him, and I do so. But looks like it's not in the nearest future that I will be able to kill him. But I want to win so badly, just just once, no matter the strategy, map, race he plays. Although I don't really want to try proxy-gates or cannon rush, I'd love you to tell me, mb there is a map, which favours protoss in pvt/pvz. I know that there is no 100%win strat, but mb I have to do smth sly? Say, buy robo facility, then kill his scouting worker, then reject robo and get citadel>archives>dts? Just — hell — I tried so many things (since I obviously cannot beat him in standart game). And I will try them again, and more of them. But mb (should be!) there is a map/strategy which I don't know about and haven't tried before? Just 1 victory, 1 victory, 1 victory
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I think you are pretty fuckt xD he might prepare for every kind of sneakyness, because you tried everything he expects everything. In my opinion there is only one build he cant expect vsT: When he goes fe stop probe production at 18 build extra 3-4 offgates and run him over
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3 hatch hydra vs his P
2 hatch muta vs his t (wait for greedy opening)
In seriousness, just practice ur mechanics more. Do more (like 80% of your games) macro oriented builds to improve your overall play, rather than just cheese/drops/allins which can net u easy wins but won't make u improve as an overall player. One day after enough practice you will reach or surpass his lvl
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You could try 4 gates pvp, since he will go safe obs first build probably to not be killed by your eventual dts!
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You are making 2 wrong assumptions that I think are horrible: -First, you are trying to beat a player for the sake of beating him (in other words, you value his skill level more than yours). The reason I think this is a horrible thing to do is because to beat a player who is better than you is not something strange. He may have a bad day, make a stupid mistake, etc and there you go. 1 win. Still, the next time you play with him, most likely you will be in the same spot as before beating him.
I had this situation with a clanmate for over 3 months. When I won my first game vs him, it was a really good game. After that, we always had great games, and we always came close to each other. Those were the best games I had in broodwar, and I have improved since then. Playing to play better yourself is why this game became so popular, so its not a good idea to focus on somebody else.
-Trying to use something funky to beat someone better than you is not the smartest thing to do: You dont improve when you do crazy builds. Improving usually comes from playing rather standard games. This is because you learn more about the game in all of its stages. If you do a one-minded build or strategy, you will not even know why it is not working, because you will not have been on the receiving end and will not know why the build is good or bad. This will only add to your frustration, eventually leading you to stop playing.
Just in case you dont realize it, you learn nothing new when you win a game, only when you lose (in most cases, ill give you that).
EDIT: There is another thing I would like to point out: most players that win with a build like DTS, or similar, know the builds very well. Those who defend them, know them very well. As an example, in a ICCUP tournament a guy tried to 6 pool me, but he scouted with a very early drone to know where to atack. I knew that the only thing that made sense assuming he was a decent player was a 6 pool. If he was not decent, i could come back in a longer game (these things happen every time you scout, and if you cant tell them, you will always have a hard time. Thats why playing against somone better than you is the best thing ever in broodwar).
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Good post by iloveav.
Don't try to brute force a win, it's not going to be helpful in any case. I had desigend builds for in-house clan tournaments (if you read that: suck it Power :troll, because they helped me to take one or two games off better friends in tours. But that's like it, you can't deal with a better player if he is better in a longer series and if he anticipates shit from you. The only answer is to train against others and improve steadily. If you're so desperate to win, have a look at the maps you guys play, look where his games are most flawed and think about a way to exploit that flaw in a best possible way. Won't help you to learn the game though, if you're not somewhat decent already.
Not sure if you judge the difference in skill correctly. I wonder if you're still a total beginner, or if your friend is at least in the blue ranks, while you struggle to get in the yellow ones. E.g. I can't imagine any solid C- player would lose vs C+ off race player fourty times in a row.
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Bisutopia18980 Posts
You could always pay Draw 20 bucks and have him play on your account.
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in PvT you could ask him to play on a map like tau cross or longinus and open 10/15 into proxy robo
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If your are completely mind-set on winning rather than improving and gradually reaching the level to defeat your friend I think you are approaching it in a method which won't lead you to beating him ever or in a long time. You can try cheesing or some pocket strategy like DTs but if they keep defeating you odds are they will be capable of scouting the DTs or deflecting the Cannon rush. Focus on getting down your mechanics to a good level, scouting correctly, having a good mentality, etc, rather than devoting to defeating someone you claim is a better player than you. And even if you win with a cheese, did the experience really make you say, "Wow I learned from this and I feel I can reach B rank" rather than, "I truly improved and feel I can now beat anyone consistently at this level".
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When I beat a player better than me it's is usually after losing a few games to him already and then getting a bit of an advantage and then really focusing hard on everything that he is going to try to make a comeback and shutting it down. That means anticipating every sneaky maneuver, any battle that he might really focus on out microing me, or any strategy risky he might take.
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Thank you all for your replies. Mostly I play vs slightly better players than I am (I've played 500 ladder games in this season, only about 33% winrate lol), and nearly all the time I go pretty standart builds ( e.g. 1 gate> range>expand). I do analize (sry for possible misspelling) games where I lose, do figure out my mistakes, do try to improve them, etc, etc, etc. But there is something special about THIS VERY guy, it's like a game, I feel that I HAVE to beat him, let it be the only victory, but still. And I won't stop playing with him after (if this "after" will ever happen, ofc). I will try this idea with adding more gateways, since it truly looks like the least expectable thing.
+ Show Spoiler +and I don't play to win only, by any means. I don't justify myself, why should I indeed, just want to prevent the further off-topic + Show Spoiler +plans, plans, but I do hope it's not too boring for him to play with me, since he wins each game
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United States9607 Posts
starcraft brood war is a game where upsets are very unlikely. mechanics is almost the entire game of BW. if you have worse mechanics, you are going to lose (unless massive BO advantage or he fucks up horribly for something). SC2 upsets are slightly more common due to a slightly less emphasis on mechanics and more so on decision making and game sense.
so its very unlikely you will beat this guy with anything. you could try cheesing him and get lucky that he goes for a greedy build, but thats about it.
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Figure out a detailed, conservative, macro oreinted gameplan in each match up, rinse and repeat this single build every single time, for months.
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I will help you to beat him.
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talk shit while you play and if you lose tell him that at least you dont sleep with your parents
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On January 31 2015 17:06 dRaW wrote: talk shit while you play and if you lose tell him that at least you dont sleep with your parents
this ^
or try proxi dts in PvT
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I've beaten him!!! Even twice!I 1st game I proxied citadel+archives (lol), and then overran him with dts, dragoons and a probe. I was so freaking nervous, forgot about everything and floated tons of resources. 2nd game he went wraithes, but I had obs by the time. I also decided to invest in corsairs (firstly to counter wraithes, but then I used them to d-web his sieged tanks, and this really worked!). Prevented him from expanding, gained huge economical advantage, and since I've already had stargates and a fleet beacon, I ended up making carriers. After that we had a rather standart game, which was kinda mb close, but I lost again. God, I am so happy, so happy
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Congratulations, now that you discovered the dark templar unit, you raised your skill by 2 ranks atleast.
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DTs are gud units as always
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