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On April 11 2015 13:05 GGzerG wrote: Hey! Awesome thread, glad that you are getting all of your questions answered, happy to see this many replys as well. All the replys so far have been really solid advice. My only advice would be I would def. stear away from opening with 2Gateway Zealot builds until you have better understanding of how to pressure / micro a little better.
Haha yea I'm quite suprised, when I made similar topic in SC2 year ago, all I got was "gtfo srcrub learn yourself" in a nutshell >.> so im rly thankful for this
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Best opening vs every race for a D level player would be FE and mass units.
New players just can't handle micro very well, however they are usually quite efficient at sending large amounts of units at similar level players. And they can skip alltogether the 'strategy' part of the game, just exp exp and send units 1a2a. It will work easily.
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United States9652 Posts
PvT: 2 gate powergoon. lets you expand safely while putting pressure on terran. add obs later then speelots, then templar + arbs. try to stay a base ahead of terran.
PvZ: Forge FE. with your stargate, just make a few corsairs. dont try sair/dt or sair/reaver. get speedlots and templar with storm early, and if you see him starting to get lurkers, get obs and goons.
PvP: gateway ball. you can do 2 gate zealots or 1 gate tech and getting goons.
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On April 07 2015 17:55 seom wrote: just double proxy gate every single game like every other P on iccup.
but seriously,
PvZ - FFE into +1 sair is great.
PvT 12 Nex or 1 Gate Exp (with DT rush as an ace up your sleeve, its an easy build to learn and great for getting quick wins)
yes i see you were joking about going 2gate proxy every game, but really you rarely see that :D
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2 gate zealot vs z and p
2 gate goon vs T, then transition to 3 gate goon and bulldozer
I wouldn't worry too much about expanding at D level, just focus on these early game tactics and keep your games around 10 minutes.
honestly, at D level, it's about who makes less mechanical errors than anything about BOs, timing, and whatnot.
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On April 07 2015 17:42 ninazerg wrote: I actually like the 2 gate dragoon opening for PvT. A lot of those lowbies are starting to figure out how to do crude fake double timing pushes, and if your efficiency isn't that great, 1 gate won't give you enough units to combat it. 2 gateways will crush it though, and then you can expand, get your robo, get your observatory, and then add a couple more gates, or if you're feeling really greedy for crystals, expand to a 3rd base before getting more gateways.
I can't say these are that great of openings, but I don't see why they won't work against nooby players.
2 gate goon vs T got me up to D level
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United States9652 Posts
PvZ: Forge FE. simple block at the front then tech. at your level, you can just make one corsair to scout and tech to templars.
PvT: 2 gate robo into expo is the safest and puts a good amount of pressure on the terran.
PvP: 2 gate zealot or 1 gate tech.
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Build a pylon in the middle of the map. Build 2 gateways next to it.
Sounds dumb, but it will teach you to think tactically, to think about scouting patterns, and to think about how you can maximize your own efficiency, as well as what has trouble defending against against 2gate. Games will go quickly so your learning will be rapid.
There aren't really safe build orders in BW. Playing safe means scouting actively, responding to what you scout, and playing defensive if all your scouting attempts are denied (a bad situation to be in). In BW you can lose games because you defend against things that aren't coming, or you set up defenses too early.
I think it is good for new players to play with tricks. Hide gateways, hide tech, cancel out of tech. It let's you abuse players who are bad and don't scout, and it teaches you what your opponent's options are as well so that you're thinking about the tricks they could be playing on you. BW isn't really a game where you just build the biggest army and win. It's a game where you lose all your peons to a dt drop because you weren't paying attention for 5 seconds, and then you lose the game. No shame in being that player who drops the dts, pros do it constantly.
If you play with the same person regularly, so much the better to play with tricks, because then you don't rely on a single trick.
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PvZ: Dual gate zealot rush. Put gateways at your expo like your fast expanding. Bisu makes his gateways at 9 supply. Either expo with cannons or tech into sairs/dt. This is one of the strategies bisu has been using lately in his games. I'm not really sure if this strategy was being used before bisu used it or not. I think it was though.
PvZ: If your sure your opponent is going mutas go dual stargate +1 air attack into dt's.
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On April 12 2015 02:42 FlaShFTW wrote: PvT: 2 gate powergoon. lets you expand safely while putting pressure on terran. add obs later then speelots, then templar + arbs. try to stay a base ahead of terran.
PvZ: Forge FE. with your stargate, just make a few corsairs. dont try sair/dt or sair/reaver. get speedlots and templar with storm early, and if you see him starting to get lurkers, get obs and goons.
PvP: gateway ball. you can do 2 gate zealots or 1 gate tech and getting goons.
This. Ignore people that tell you to do some fancy cookie cutter builds (various 1gate bulds/techs//expands).
As a new player, do various pressure/mass unit builds so that you are safe and can get the feel for how things function early on and how much units other people have and how/when to fight or not .
Once you get used to that you can start trying other stuff out because most of the other builds assume you know how to recognize various things and that you're used to handling some basic macro/micro and responses to what your opponent is doing.
I would even suggest going 2g zealot vs zerg for a dozen of games before starting to do fast expand builds. When doing fe vs z, dont do mass corsair builds because 95% of people have no clue how to play them and just do stupid shit and fail miserably (even though they think they dont), especially at low levels - because this build requires you to know a lot, since its very weak because of the low number of actual ground units, and you can get contained or busted or simpliy mess up with your corsairs.
Instead do no starport fe builds first (like +1 speedlot rushes later backed up by templars or archons and maybe taking a third base), as most d level players suck, and this is a good agfressive build to get a sense of whats going on and to get a feel of the strenghts and timings early on; then start doing 1 corsair builds to scout for mutas and busts (which are easily scouted in time at d levels).
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Sorry for the doublepost, but posting/editing from the phone is a pain in the backside. As others have said check the builds on liquipedia.
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If you're doing 2 gate inbase PvP there's something I call the Peruvian variation for obvious reasons, I never seen anyone else do it.
You go 2 gate (with or without proxying additional gates) and when it fails throw down 3 cannons at your nat and expand.
Safe vs quick DTs and counter attacks (add cannons as needed). Their reavers should be delayed enough for your to get a few goons, but I'm not too sure about that.
Oh ya, if you meet any peruvians, be prepared to be cheesed.
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On May 09 2015 22:58 Chef wrote: Build a pylon in the middle of the map. Build 2 gateways next to it.
Sounds dumb, but it will teach you to think tactically, to think about scouting patterns, and to think about how you can maximize your own efficiency, as well as what has trouble defending against against 2gate. Games will go quickly so your learning will be rapid.
There aren't really safe build orders in BW. Playing safe means scouting actively, responding to what you scout, and playing defensive if all your scouting attempts are denied (a bad situation to be in). In BW you can lose games because you defend against things that aren't coming, or you set up defenses too early.
I think it is good for new players to play with tricks. Hide gateways, hide tech, cancel out of tech. It let's you abuse players who are bad and don't scout, and it teaches you what your opponent's options are as well so that you're thinking about the tricks they could be playing on you. BW isn't really a game where you just build the biggest army and win. It's a game where you lose all your peons to a dt drop because you weren't paying attention for 5 seconds, and then you lose the game. No shame in being that player who drops the dts, pros do it constantly.
If you play with the same person regularly, so much the better to play with tricks, because then you don't rely on a single trick.
This is pretty much the best answer imo. when you are just starting to play bw is really necesary to learn the cheesy way of playing, it improves your micro, you get a feeling of what your units are capable of doing and is less complicated to execute.
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On May 18 2015 16:06 XenOsky- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2015 22:58 Chef wrote: Build a pylon in the middle of the map. Build 2 gateways next to it.
Sounds dumb, but it will teach you to think tactically, to think about scouting patterns, and to think about how you can maximize your own efficiency, as well as what has trouble defending against against 2gate. Games will go quickly so your learning will be rapid.
There aren't really safe build orders in BW. Playing safe means scouting actively, responding to what you scout, and playing defensive if all your scouting attempts are denied (a bad situation to be in). In BW you can lose games because you defend against things that aren't coming, or you set up defenses too early.
I think it is good for new players to play with tricks. Hide gateways, hide tech, cancel out of tech. It let's you abuse players who are bad and don't scout, and it teaches you what your opponent's options are as well so that you're thinking about the tricks they could be playing on you. BW isn't really a game where you just build the biggest army and win. It's a game where you lose all your peons to a dt drop because you weren't paying attention for 5 seconds, and then you lose the game. No shame in being that player who drops the dts, pros do it constantly.
If you play with the same person regularly, so much the better to play with tricks, because then you don't rely on a single trick. This is pretty much the best answer imo. when you are just starting to play bw is really necesary to learn the cheesy way of playing, it improves your micro, you get a feeling of what your units are capable of doing and is less complicated to execute.
I agree with this. I hate when people get obsessed with 'playing standard', especially when they come over from SC2. After all, it IS a strategy game.
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On May 18 2015 18:15 ninazerg wrote:
I agree with this. I hate when people get obsessed with 'playing standard', especially when they come over from SC2. After all, it IS a strategy game.
the latter game has things like queens with long attack range, movable spines, transfusions, faster speed on creep, abundant larva with larva inject...so easy to repel early game harass and drone mindlessly behind it, why bother cheesing.
unlike in BW where you actually have to commit much resources to hold harass and properly think about how to spend your precious larva otherwise making too much units/drone too much would easily cost you the game.
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There arent really any builds to give bad players. You just have to learn the game and learn all its aspects incrementally, and every build and gameplan has more than enough room for error. More than enough room to ensure a bad player will lose alot like all bad players, and feel bad about his abilities until he stops being so bad. So dont think of it as "whats a build I can execute or understand" think of builds that give you the best indication of standard, because standard by its nature will give you the greatest cross section of experiences to be had, and you will get better faster.
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